TOP 5 TE's in the NFL----NAME EM

[Bretsky]

I'm curious to see some lists and any explanations if you choose. I really do like Finley and want TT to keep him, but if he's looking to be the top paid TE in football he's up for a couple years of franchising.

I'll probably put Finley in my top 5 list, but to be honest I'm not even sure he's the top young TE in the NFC right now.

[mission]

Graham
Gronkowski
Gonzalez
Gates
Witten
Finley

[pbmax]

Not sure about Gates any longer, his speed and health are shot. I'd take a flyer on him for a year, but not for more.

Witten
Gronkowski
Graham
Gonzlaez
Finley
Scheffler
Boss

[denverYooper]

No Vernon Davis?

Pinocchio
Porny
Fatty
Gonzo
Rosy
Pig Finn
Vern

Fred (who?) Davis apparently has been having a good season but got popped for spiking his own punch.

And what the hell happened to Dallas Clark? Just a case of Painter-itis?

[Upnorth]

Gronkowski
Witten
Graham
Gonzo
Davis
Keller
Olson
Finley

[smuggler]

Gronkowski
Gates
Finley
VDavis

Witten and Graham are good, both solid blockers as well as good receivers, but their receptions are quantity over quality. Gonzo is still good, but the other 4 guys above are all better.

[pbmax]

Dallas Clark was banged up all year and is on IR now.

[Tony Oday]

Finley is not top 5

[mraynrand]

Gronkowski
Graham
Witten
Finley
Gates

That's based on play I've seen. I think Finley has more physical tools than any of them, and should be better than all of them, but he needs to improve in his blocking and catching stuff.

[pbmax]

Finley is not top 5

Follow instructions Tony!

[pbmax]

Player Team DYAR Rk YAR Rk DVOA Rk VOA Passes Yards EYds TD CatchRt FUM
R.Gronkowski NE 325 1 331 1 50.7% 3 51.7% 84 864 1,181 11 71% 0
J.Graham NO 266 2 276 2 30.5% 9 31.9% 102 957 1,172 8 66% 0
T.Gonzalez ATL 197 3 201 3 26.8% 12 27.6% 83 630 914 7 71% 0
F.Davis WAS 166 4 157 5 26.2% 14 24.4% 75 699 777 3 71% 1
J.Finley GB 153 5 146 6 31.1% 8 29.3% 56 513 667 5 64% 0
A.Gates SD 153 6 167 4 30.3% 10 33.8% 59 463 675 4 68% 0
J.Ballard NYG 143 7 139 9 36.7% 6 35.5% 47 490 584 3 64% 0
O.Daniels HOU 142 8 134 10 26.9% 11 25.0% 62 509 660 3 66% 0
S.Chandler BUF 142 9 143 7 45.5% 5 46.0% 37 312 535 6 86% 0
H.Miller PIT 138 10 141 8 33.8% 7 34.8% 53 485 582 2 74% 0
J.Witten DAL 129 11 124 11 14.4% 17 13.7% 86 713 780 5 65% 1
A.Fasano MIA 107 12 109 12 46.9% 4 47.7% 30 290 400 4 63% 0
J.Dreessen HOU 106 13 95 13 63.5% 1 56.1% 24 253 358 4 63% 0
A.Hernandez NE 84 14 90 14 9.9% 20 11.2% 69 480 592 5 68% 1
K.Boss OAK 81 15 88 15 63.4% 2 69.8% 20 237 273 1 80% 0
V.Davis SF 74 16 65 17 12.2% 18 9.8% 57 484 479 5 75% 2
T.Scheffler DET 60 17 72 16 26.6% 13 33.4% 26 190 281 5 62% 0
J.Cook TEN 55 18 42 22 9.9% 19 5.7% 53 425 392 2 53% 1
D.Keller NYJ 53 19 62 18 3.7% 23 5.4% 73 574 525 4 55% 1

Football Outsiders has Finley tied for 5th with Gates. And likes Fred more than we do.

[pbmax]

Rank Player Team G WPA EPA WPA/G EPA/P SR(%) YPR Rec Yds RecTD Tgts %Tgt YPT CR(%) %Deep
1 87-R.Gronkowski NE 12 2.29 63.0 0.19 0.63 64.0 14.3 65 928 13 90 19.7 10.3 72.2 26.7
2 80-J.Graham NO 12 1.33 58.3 0.11 0.51 60.0 13.9 75 1046 8 112 22.8 9.3 67.0 22.3
3 88-T.Gonzalez ATL 12 1.26 37.0 0.11 0.37 64.4 11.1 66 730 7 93 21.5 7.8 71.0 15.1
4 82-J.Witten DAL 12 1.25 42.0 0.10 0.44 55.8 12.5 61 760 5 92 21.6 8.3 66.3 17.4
5 81-O.Daniels HST 12 1.00 27.9 0.08 0.41 60.3 12.4 44 544 3 67 19.9 8.1 65.7 16.4
6 85-J.Ballard NYG 12 1.00 24.0 0.08 0.44 58.2 16.3 33 537 3 53 12.1 10.1 62.3 35.8
7 46-D.Walker SF 9 0.89 3.5 0.10 0.10 37.1 10.8 17 183 3 30 9.3 6.1 56.7 10.0
8 83-H.Miller PIT 12 0.82 26.9 0.07 0.45 61.7 12.1 41 497 2 56 13.7 8.9 73.2 12.5
9 88-J.Finley GB 12 0.78 34.0 0.07 0.48 54.9 14.3 42 600 6 67 16.6 9.0 62.7 29.9
10 80-A.Fasano MIA 12 0.74 21.4 0.06 0.55 61.5 15.5 23 356 4 36 10.3 9.9 63.9 33.3
11 85-A.Gates SD 8 0.65 27.2 0.08 0.40 66.2 11.6 40 463 4 59 14.5 7.8 67.8 16.9
12 84-S.Chandler BUF 12 0.57 27.8 0.05 0.68 68.3 10.3 35 360 6 41 10.0 8.8 85.4 2.4
13 88-G.Olsen CAR 12 0.56 16.5 0.05 0.19 46.6 11.5 41 472 4 79 19.3 6.0 51.9 22.8
14 85-V.Davis SF 12 0.56 15.2 0.05 0.22 47.1 10.8 48 516 5 65 20.1 7.9 73.8 23.1
15 87-B.Pettigrew DET 12 0.49 2.0 0.04 0.02 52.2 8.5 56 475 3 87 18.0 5.5 64.4 10.3

Advanced NFL stats has Finley 9th behind surprises Heath Miller, Delanie Walker and someone who probably should have been on our lists: Owen Daniels.

[denverYooper]

Gronk, Graham, Gonzalez. Gates was the cream of the crop until he got into mama's home cookin'.

TT needs to think about drafting a TE with a last name that starts with G. Surefire top 3.

[denverYooper]

Football Outsiders has Finley tied for 5th with Gates. And likes Fred more than we do.

Fred got caught juicing. He's probably going to drop out. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-trent-williams-fred-davis-face-season-ending-suspensions-for-failing-drug-tests/2011/12/04/gIQAC0gxTO_story.html?tid=pm_sports_pop

[denverYooper]

It's interesting that Graham's catch rate is only 2% better than Finley's. If Finley got as many targets, I'm not sure his catch rate wouldn't be better.

[Packgator]

I'm not even sure he's the top young TE in the NFC right now.

Graham is the best TE in the NFC (young or old).

[mission]

Graham is the best TE in the NFC (young or old).

No doubt.

[LEWCWA]

Gronkowski
Gates
Finley
VDavis

Witten and Graham are good, both solid blockers as well as good receivers, but their receptions are quantity over quality. Gonzo is still good, but the other 4 guys above are all better.

What in the f*** are you talking about? Witten is the ultimate in security blankets for Romo. He is a 3rd down catch machine and well Graham might be a better Finley than Finley at this point!

[LEWCWA]

Hell A. Hernandez is a stud too. Pats just beat you up with those two...

[Upnorth]

What pb's two sets of stats say to me is I have chandler severely underrated. Both dyar and wpa are based of two main functions, attempts and success. Give a good player more chance and their #s go up. Chandler looks good

[3irty1]

Gronkowski
Gates

Graham

Witten
V. Davis
Gonzalez
Finley

Those top two guys do things Finley can't. Graham is about as good but takes better advantage of his reps. The rest of the guys above Finley are doing more with less. I say that because Davis is truly a TE stuck in a WR body... he has to try 2x as hard to be as good as Finley.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wouldn't put Gonzo in the conversation anymore. Those other guys can stretch the field--even Witten. Gonzo hasn't been able to do it for a few years. He gets a lot of catches in that system, but I don't think teams are that afraid of him. I think he's been right around 10 yards/catch the last few years. Finley and some of the others are closer to 14 yards/catch. Plus, this might be his last year. IMHO, Gronkowski, Gates, Graham, Witten, Finley, and Davis are the difference makers at the position. Probably forgetting somebody.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Daniels is pretty good when he's healthy. I still like Dallas Clark, but he has awful QB play this year.

[hoosier]

Gonzalez may not be what he once was but he ain't too shabby. After twelve games he is second among TEs in total receptions, over 11 yrds/reception, 7 TDs. And he blocks more than most receiving TEs.

Top five:

Graham
Gronkowski
Witten
Finley
Vernon Davis
Gonzalez

That's six for the price of five.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He's doing well statistically, so maybe he's having a rebound year. I haven't really watched Atlanta all that much this year. I know in the last 2-3 years he didn't look that great to me when I watched him. He'd get catches because he's big, has great hands, and blocks defenders out well--but he rarely got anything after the catch. It was more short, box out kind of stuff. In his prime, he was as good as any TE has ever been. He could run. I don't judge players that much off stats. More with the eyeball test, and he hadn't been passing the eyeball test. However, I will say I'm surprised he's having the year he is having. Credit him for doing it at his age.

[smuggler]

What in the f*** are you talking about? Witten is the ultimate in security blankets for Romo. He is a 3rd down catch machine and well Graham might be a better Finley than Finley at this point!

No doubt that Witten and Graham are consistently used as weapons in their attacks and are savvy and surehanded. But Gronk, Gates, Finley, and VDavis are more imposing talents IMO.

Graham is the most productive TE in the league right now, but I'm not sure that any of the guys I mentioned wouldn't be producing just as much or better in they played in New Orleans in that offense.

[smuggler]

Fred got caught juicing. He's probably going to drop out. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-trent-williams-fred-davis-face-season-ending-suspensions-for-failing-drug-tests/2011/12/04/gIQAC0gxTO_story.html?tid=pm_sports_pop

You must not know the meaning of the word 'recreational'.

[denverYooper]

You must not know the meaning of the word 'recreational'.

That or I didn't read the article.

[steve823]

Finley is not a top 5 as of now. Simple as that. I don't care about his potential or if he was on a good team or any of that BS. You can make a case for him being right outside the top 5 though.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/variety-act-7v3b7f8-135146223.html


Finley's versatility makes him a potent weapon

Green Bay - There are parts of tight end Jermichael Finley's game you can identify with no difficulty at all.

There are the catches (42), the yards (600) and the touchdowns (six). There are the drops (nine), the false-starts (four) and the lapses in blocking (occasional). There are the complaints to the officials (a few too many) and the brash statements (fewer than in previous years).

There are all those things that make Finley as recognizable on the field as any member of the Green Bay Packers.

Then there are the things you probably don't see at all.

Like the incredibly long list of plays he has to run from one of five positions he plays for the NFL's fourth-leading offense. Like the attention Finley draws from opponents on almost every passing play. Like the role he plays in helping quarterback Aaron Rodgers identify coverage before the ball is snapped.

Finley might frustrate the button-down fan who would prefer he be less demonstrative on the field, be a little more humble and care at little bit less about his next contract. From an opponent's perspective, however, he is a respected if not feared force.

"You have to deal with him," said Tampa Bay Buccaneers pro personnel director Shelton Quarles, whose team held Finley to one catch for 30 yards. "You can't cover him with a linebacker. He's too quick. It's tough to do it with a safety, too.

"You can try to cover him with a corner. But you have to put someone over the top against him. But then there's Jordy (Nelson). He can hurt you, too. It's sort of like pick your poison."

Based on the way teams have played the Packers this season, opponents have chosen not to let Finley bring them to their knees. There is rarely an occasion where Finley gets to run a route with only one defender to worry about.

"Usually, it's an inside linebacker underneath and a safety over the top," Finley said. "Sometimes it's a corner and sometimes it's a safety. But there's usually someone over the top. I don't know if everybody sees that."

Finley's value to the 2011 Packers is best quantified in team production.

Many fans argue that Finley's value isn't that great because the team won a Super Bowl last year when he missed all but five games with a knee injury. But the 12-0 record and offensive dominance this season suggest otherwise.

You have to factor in the flawless play of Rodgers, but it would be hard not to acknowledge Finley has played a large part in the offense seeing its numbers increase from 358.1 yards, 24.2 points and two passing touchdowns per game last year to 405, 35 and three this year.

And with the pressure on the offense greater because of the defense playing at a far poorer level than a year ago, those improved numbers have been vital to the team's success.

"I think he is critical," said an NFC personnel executive who asked not to be identified. "Look at the Packers and those receivers and think about that. I'm sure he's helping out Jordy. Jordy is playing his (butt) off from what I've seen. But (Finley) has a lot to prove."

What makes Finley especially valuable is the multiple positions he can play. Listed at 6 feet 5 inches and 247 pounds, he is as fast as many receivers in the NFL and quicker than a lot of them.

His big soft hands have deserted him at times this season, but that probably has more to do with him pressing a little bit - his coaches say he's taking his eye off the ball because of his desire to get yards after the catch. When it counted in a 38-35 victory over the New York Giants on Sunday, he plucked a Rodgers dart from the air and outran a linebacker for a 24-yard gain to start the game-winning drive.

During a game, he'll line up in as many as five positions: in-line tight end, slot and flex receiver, outside receiver and fullback. Often, he lines up wide by himself to draw a safety so a receiver on the other side can get one-on-one coverage.

Because Greg Jennings often gets the other double-team, Nelson, Donald Driver and James Jones get most of the one-on-ones.

"They move him a ton, too," the personnel executive said. "The backfield, they flex him out, they use him to see how a team is going to defend him so Aaron knows what kind of coverage he's going to get. He (Rodgers) has got this guy that can move around and see how the defense shifts.

"He's so fast and quick in and out of his breaks, just like a big receiver. A linebacker can't play him. You go straight man, you have to put a cover safety or a big corner on him and then put a safety over him. We don't have one of those. I really want Santa to bring us one of those for Christmas."

A perfect example of Finley's impact came on Nelson's 21-yard catch in the fourth quarter that set up the Packers' last touchdown against the Giants. Finley lined up in the left slot and motioned all the way to the other side of the field.

The safety who was covering him followed and Rodgers understood he had man-to-man coverage on Nelson. He threw the ball up and Nelson made a terrific catch over a cornerback who had no safety help.

Another time, Finley not only drew a linebacker in coverage, but the Giants removed defensive lineman Justin Tuck from their pass rush so he could jam Finley at the line and tie him up. The Giants sacrificed pass rush to neutralize the tight end.

Finally, on Driver's first touchdown, the Giants blew coverage and left the Packers receiver wide open. Two defenders went after Finley and a third seemed occupied by him.

"That's my thing right now, remembering we have a great receiving corps," Finley said. "I like being part of it. That's what I wish for and dream about. But I have to be patient. Sometimes you're opening things up for other guys."

This season Finley has played split end roughly 25% of the time, slot or flex receiver 28% of the time, tight end 43% of the time and fullback 4% of the time. In order to do that, he has to study the assignments of each position, be prepared to execute them from different spots in the formation and read the way the opposition is playing him.

The closest thing might be the receiver position, where wideouts must learn split end, flanker and slot.

"I don't think it's even close," tight ends coach Ben McAdoo said. "He has stuff from the backfield and stuff from the in-line position. It's like playing receiver, slot receiver, split end, tight end, tackle, fullback - you have to be able to do it all.

"You try to hone it in what you have for that particular week. But usually at some point in time he'll have something from every area."

Finley said remembering all the assignments is harder than actually executing, but he said while his grades might not have been the best at the University of Texas, his football knowledge is top-shelf.

McAdoo wouldn't dispute that.

"You can't be a (dummy), no," McAdoo said. "You have to be able to think quick. A lot of time book smarts may help, may not help. Usually they help you in the classroom.

"When you're on the field you have to think quickly. You have to be able to react quickly in space and naturally in space. That's something he does well. He's got a lot on his plate. We ask a lot of him."

Finley, it seems, delivers in more ways than one.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good points


Many fans argue that Finley's value isn't that great because the team won a Super Bowl last year when he missed all but five games with a knee injury. But the 12-0 record and offensive dominance this season suggest otherwise.

You have to factor in the flawless play of Rodgers, but it would be hard not to acknowledge Finley has played a large part in the offense seeing its numbers increase from 358.1 yards, 24.2 points and two passing touchdowns per game last year to 405, 35 and three this year.


During a game, he'll line up in as many as five positions: in-line tight end, slot and flex receiver, outside receiver and fullback. Often, he lines up wide by himself to draw a safety so a receiver on the other side can get one-on-one coverage.

Because Greg Jennings often gets the other double-team, Nelson, Donald Driver and James Jones get most of the one-on-ones.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And my favorite quote.


"They move him a ton, too," the personnel executive said. "The backfield, they flex him out, they use him to see how a team is going to defend him so Aaron knows what kind of coverage he's going to get. He (Rodgers) has got this guy that can move around and see how the defense shifts.

"He's so fast and quick in and out of his breaks, just like a big receiver. A linebacker can't play him. You go straight man, you have to put a cover safety or a big corner on him and then put a safety over him. We don't have one of those. I really want Santa to bring us one of those for Christmas."

[Brandon494]

Great find Harvery, pretty much what I've been saying the whole season to the all the Finley haters. NOW PAY THAT MAN HIS MONEY!!!

[RashanGary]

I'll eat my crow. I wondered if the, "he's getting doubled all the time" thing was true or fans being fans.

It was especially nice reading that AR gets predictable coverages by having Finley on the field. That's a big deal.


I think they're using him well. Nelson in single coverage is better than Finley on two guys over the dangerous middle. It's working out really well for the Packers. It sounds like he's respected around the league, sounds like he does a lot of different things. . . . . . I'm guessing Mike and Ted appreciate him too.

Tom Brady does it a little different. Gronkowski and Welker are really his two guys. They set up everything around those two guys. The Packers have three legitimate weapons. Jennings, Finley and Nelson. Like they said in the article. You can't double three of them, so pick your poison. Right now they're picking Nelson and he's making the play every time. Driver, Cobb and Jones are all so/so right now. Cobb because he's a little young. Driver because he's a lot old and Jones because he's inconsistent. But as far as having three legitimate pass catchers who can consistently beat single coverage. . . . The Packers have it. That's nice in crunch time, when you have to make a play. Find the guy who has one defender, chances are the receiver knows it too, and put the ball up. Hey, it's working.

[smuggler]

According to football outsiders, Jordy is the most valuable receiver in the league. Almost 60% above average play level. Jennings ~25%. Jones is at like 45%, Cobb above 20%, Driver chilling around +7%. If that's not the sign of an All-Pro, MVP QB, I don't know what is.

[mraynrand]

According to football outsiders, Jordy is the most valuable receiver in the league. Almost 60% above average play level. Jennings ~25%. Jones is at like 45%, Cobb above 20%, Driver chilling around +7%. If that's not the sign of an All-Pro, MVP QB, I don't know what is.

The QB puts the ball right on these guys' hands from 5-50 yards away. Super-accurate, easy to catch ball. Amazing.

[mraynrand]

Great find Harvery, pretty much what I've been saying the whole season to the all the Finley haters. NOW PAY THAT MAN HIS MONEY!!!

Finley is the bomb. The Giants did find a way to neutralize him somewhat. Just hold on every play. It's the NE defense. You just mug a guy all the time and dare the officials to call a penalty on every play. They won't do it.

[denverYooper]

Finley is the bomb. The Giants did find a way to neutralize him somewhat. Just hold on every play. It's the NE defense. You just mug a guy all the time and dare the officials to call a penalty on every play. They won't do it.

Just when it's critical. I think the same thing happens with Wood sometimes.