James Harrison

[smuggler]

This dude won his team the game tonight with a clutch helmet-to-helmet blow on Browns QB Colt McCoy late in the second half. Clearly the best play of the game. Colt suffered a concussion, but stayed in the game, only to throw the game-sealing pick a few plays later.

I am pissed about this and honestly want to see him suspended. If he still can't learn to stop doing this shit, get him out of the league.

Not his worst one, but the ball was gone, so he should have been pulling up, not bearing down and hitting with the helmet.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harrison is a turd.

[pbmax]

The Browns coaching and medical staff deserve some credit for letting him go back out after Wallace had just thrown a dart for a first down.

[smuggler]

Oh, no doubt. But when one of the biggest plays of the game is a h2h hit on a QB, you know it was a crap game.

[mraynrand]

The Browns coaching and medical staff deserve some credit for letting him go back out after Wallace had just thrown a dart for a first down.


That's exactly what I was thinking. I almost threw a shoe at the TV. Stupid coaches.

Harrison is rough as hell, but hey, from his and the Steelers perspectives, a win is worth a few tens of thousand dollars. Maybe the guy gets a Christmas bonus.

[Joemailman]

Here's the link for anyone who didn't see it: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824e149a/article/browns-mccoy-shows-his-toughness-too-after-hit-to-the-head?module=HP11_headline_stack

Some rather interesting quotes from the people involved:

"He was fine to go back in," coach Pat Shurmur said, according to the Plain Dealer.

"Honestly, I don't remember (the hit)," McCoy told the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram.

"From what I understand, once the quarterback leaves the pocket, he's considered a runner," Harrison said. "All the defenseless(ness) and liberties that a quarterback has in the pocket are gone and you can tackle him just as he's a running back. The hit wasn't late, so I really don't understand why it was called."

If McCoy doesn't remember the hit, doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, he wasn't fine to go back in?

Does Harrison still not understand that leading with his helmet into another player's helmet is not allowed?

[Deputy Nutz]

You all are a bunch of pussies.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Agree with the Yahoo! article that he should be suspended. I think a game out w/o pay would start to get his attention. The leagues gotta stop pussy-footing around about this. The current fines they impose don't really hurt the players so either start suspending guys or start making the fines in proportion to a player's salary.

[Smidgeon]

Agree with the Yahoo! article that he should be suspended. I think a game out w/o pay would start to get his attention. The leagues gotta stop pussy-footing around about this. The current fines they impose don't really hurt the players so either start suspending guys or start making the fines in proportion to a player's salary.

The current fines they impose don't really hurt the star players making serious bank. The players playing for minimum sure pay attention when they lose a game check for a week. Prorated penalties based on a player's salary (and maybe bonus) needs to be applied.

[Guiness]

The current fines they impose don't really hurt the star players making serious bank. The players playing for minimum sure pay attention when they lose a game check for a week. Prorated penalties based on a player's salary (and maybe bonus) needs to be applied.

Has to include the bonuses.

Suh's suspension is the perfect example of that. His contract averages about $12million/year, but this year his gameday cheques are $82K.

[sharpe1027]

Poor Harrison, nobody gives him a fair shake. Clearly it is more important that he be able to play the game the way he wants. This silly concern about possibly ending someone's career, or worse, is irrelevant to Harrison's much more pressing issue of being able to play the game the way he thinks it should be played.

[hoosier]

...after the game, members of the Browns staff reportedly asked that television lights not be used while McCoy was talking to the media
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/defense_leaves_steelers_offens.html?utm_source=dlv r.it&utm_medium=twitter

Concussion?!? What concussion?

[Joemailman]

Not sure who should get a bigger fine. Harrison or Shurmur.

[Pugger]

The Browns coaching and medical staff deserve some credit for letting him go back out after Wallace had just thrown a dart for a first down.

Yeah, no kidding.

[Smidgeon]

Not sure who should get a bigger fine. Harrison or Shurmur.

+1

[Smidgeon]

The Browns coaching and medical staff deserve some credit for letting him go back out after Wallace had just thrown a dart for a first down.

How many snaps did Seneca get? (He was the QB at Iowa State the first couple years I attended--not many Iowa Staters make it in the NFL.)

[mraynrand]

I think it was 2

[mraynrand]

Not sure who should get a bigger fine. Harrison or Shurmur.


Not only was Shurmur possibly guilty of putting his player at risk, but he also pulled a Mike Sherman - he wasn't paying attention to what was happening on the field. His starting QB gets his bell rung, but his backup makes a solid throw and gets a firs and goal from the 3 or 4 yard line. Let Seneca finish the series. I bet they could have gone 5 wide empty backfield and have Seneca run it in.

[Freak Out]

Harrison is just begging for it.

[mraynrand]

Harrison is just begging for it.

So was Walden, apparently.

[smuggler]

Does Harrison still not understand that leading with his helmet into another player's helmet is not allowed?

Actually, he can pop people with his helmet, once they are established as a runner. However, McCoy leaving the pocket doesn't cost him his QB protection. He has to cross the line of scrimmage to become a runner.

Harrison didn't know that, if his post game interview is to be believed.

[Pugger]

But the league doesn't want defenders to go helmet to helmet.

[smuggler]

If that were the case, they'd make a rule. Right now, only QBs and 'defenseless' WRs are protected. They should probably expand it to anything outside of the line of scrimmage area is a penalty, sort of like blocks in the back on O/D.

[Joemailman]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/leagues-explanation-of-hit-on-mccoy-doesnt-bode-well-for-harrison/

“In the fourth quarter of the Cleveland Browns-Pittsburgh Steelers game last night, Steelers linebacker James Harrison was penalized for roughing the passer,” the league said. “Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(8) and (3) of the NFL Rule Book (page 75-76) is applicable to the roughing the passer penalty called against Harrison.

“When a passer is outside the pocket area as in the case of Cleveland quarterback Colt McCoy last night, he is still afforded the protection of Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13 (3), which prohibits defensive players from using their helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture, including by “forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him.”

[pbmax]

But the league doesn't want defenders to go helmet to helmet.

Smuggler is correct. A running back with a handoff, can still be hit with a helmet. As can any other player with the ball that is not "defenseless" while throwing or catching the ball.

[Pugger]

Smuggler is correct. A running back with a handoff, can still be hit with a helmet. As can any other player with the ball that is not "defenseless" while throwing or catching the ball.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/leagues-explanation-of-hit-on-mccoy-doesnt-bode-well-for-harrison/

“In the fourth quarter of the Cleveland Browns-Pittsburgh Steelers game last night, Steelers linebacker James Harrison was penalized for roughing the passer,” the league said. “Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(8) and (3) of the NFL Rule Book (page 75-76) is applicable to the roughing the passer penalty called against Harrison.

“When a passer is outside the pocket area as in the case of Cleveland quarterback Colt McCoy last night, he is still afforded the protection of Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13 (3), which prohibits defensive players from using their helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture, including by “forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him.”

QBs get different treatment that RBs. What bothers me about the entire situation is this isn't the first time Harrison had hit someone helmet to helmet and it appears from here that the Browns' staff didn't go thru the concussion protocol.

[MadScientist]

QBs get different treatment that RBs. What bothers me about the entire situation is this isn't the first time Harrison had hit someone helmet to helmet and it appears from here that the Browns' staff didn't go thru the concussion protocol.

The reason it is that way is that running backs get hit in the helmet because they lower themselves to plow through a tackle. It is impossible to avoid occasional hits to the helmet in those instances and still make a tackle. McCoy was standing and backing away from the hit after he flipped the ball. Harrison by the sounds of his statements was looking to get in a free helmet led kill shot at the QB. Just that attitude should call for a suspension, more that just the hit itself. It's similar to Suh's post game non apology - a mind set that must be changed and fines won't cut it.

As for the Browns, there is no excuse for their actions. Hopefully a fine will do the trick with them.

[pbmax]

QBs get different treatment that RBs. What bothers me about the entire situation is this isn't the first time Harrison had hit someone helmet to helmet and it appears from here that the Browns' staff didn't go thru the concussion protocol.

Yes, but QBs do not get special treatment because of the position listed in the program. They need to be in the pocket or in the act of throwing a pass. A halfback option pass would extend to the RB the same protections while passing. Outside of the defenseless exception, helmet to helmet hits are legal.

The question of whether Harrison could safely assume McCoy was a runner is the debatable issue. He clearly was running (or faking a run) when Harrison went to tee off on him, but then threw the ball. It would have been a near miraculous adjustment by Harrison to redirect. But given how this has been judged previously, just because Harrison expected that he was a runner probably won't be enough to save him the fine.

I agree that the Brown's medical team did not do its job.

http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/12/0a6a75b1177079761665422984049a59.jpg

[mission]

Can't tell from that picture, pb. He either smoked a joint on the sideline or has no idea where he is. :lol:

[digitaldean]

I'm all for hitting the QB if he runs out of the pocket. But for crying out loud, Harrison launched himself at McCoy's head!
He should be suspended for a game given his past track record. Fining him $75 to 80 K (like I heard by Clayton on ESPN this a.m.) is a joke. Forcing him to sit a game should make him and his team see that crap should stop.

[George Cumby]

Can't tell from that picture, pb. He either smoked a joint on the sideline or has no idea where he is. :lol:


:lol:

or he shotgunned a six of "Black Label"

[smuggler]

Fine him 1/16th of his annual salary...

And make him sit out a game.

[King Friday]

Sounds like a 1 game suspension is likely at this point.

[ND72]

If Schwartz was his coach he probably didn't see the replay.

[MadScientist]

Suspended for one game, but won't change:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/13/james-harrison-says-he-cant-and-wont-change-the-way-he-plays/
Hope Pittsburgh loses this week so his teammates can point a finger at him. That might have more impact than anything else.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Good. Likely won't change his play though. Now he has a history of getting suspended for it and if he does it again he can sit longer.

[mission]

Suspended for one game, but won't change:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/13/james-harrison-says-he-cant-and-wont-change-the-way-he-plays/
Hope Pittsburgh loses this week so his teammates can point a finger at him. That might have more impact than anything else.

Hope you're right. One of the main Vegas guys who sets the lines says that the loss of Harrison doesn't even have him changing the line a half of a point. I wonder what kind of point swing Rodgers being out would create.

[hoosier]

Browns president Mike Holmgren says quarterback Colt McCoy was not checked for a concussion while he was on the sideline after helmet-to-helmet hit by Pittsburgh's James Harrison. The team had maintained proper protocol was followed after the hit. Holmgren said Wednesday Browns trainers did not see the hit and did not realize the impact because they were treating other injured players. Holmgren said the team's medical staff, which he called "the best in the NFL," (:tup::tup:) felt McCoy was "lucid and talking" when they treated him on the field. He said trainer Joe Sheehan told coach Pat Shurmur McCoy "was good to go."

Holmgren said McCoy did not show any concussion-like symptoms until well after the game. Holmgren said McCoy was tested for a concussion in the locker room by one of the team's doctors before returning to Cleveland.

McCoy was sent home with a headache Wednesday and Holmgren said the team is following protocol to treat him. Holmgren was involved in the meetings on Tuesday with members of the NFL's medical staff and union members.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7352348/cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy-given-concussion-test-sideline

Let's see, he was "lucid and talking" when the trainers got to him and they didn't see the hit itself. Apparently the best medical staff in the NFL needs to hire a spotter who can warn them when it is time to start seeing beyond the tips of their own noses.

[gbgary]

Suspended for one game, but won't change:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/13/james-harrison-says-he-cant-and-wont-change-the-way-he-plays/
Hope Pittsburgh loses this week so his teammates can point a finger at him. That might have more impact than anything else.

they won't miss him at all. pittsburg's the best team in the afc. they'll be in the sb again.

[pbmax]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7352348/cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy-given-concussion-test-sideline

Let's see, he was "lucid and talking" when the trainers got to him and they didn't see the hit itself. Apparently the best medical staff in the NFL needs to hire a spotter who can warn them when it is time to start seeing beyond the tips of their own noses.

Someone said/wrote that they were busy looking at his hand on the sidelines.

[Upnorth]

So his history is catching up with him, or else there is no way to justify the one game suspension from this hit.

[Tarlam!]

I am more worried about the Lions defensive line. Those four want to mame the Packers QB.

[sharpe1027]

I am more worried about the Lions defensive line. Those four want to mame the Packers QB.

I'm guessing that home field will be wrapped up by then and Flynn will be in.

[Tarlam!]

I'm guessing that home field will be wrapped up by then and Flynn will be in.

You think? Only if they lose one of the next two and win the other. No way they settle for a potential loss if they go into that game 15-0. No way. And at 13-2, you KNOW they play to win.

God, I hate being a football fan. I woryy, i worry. now I have a share of the team, I seem to worry even more. I hate loving the Packers!

[MJZiggy]

You think? Only if they lose one of the next two and win the other. No way they settle for a potential loss if they go into that game 15-0. No way. And at 13-2, you KNOW they play to win.

God, I hate being a football fan. I woryy, i worry. now I have a share of the team, I seem to worry even more. I hate loving the Packers!

Lions can't try to maim anyone for the rest of the season. Suh has already been suspended so that's an automatic if he steps out of line again and the team has gotten so many 15-yard penalties and fines that their idiot coach was forced to vow to bench any players that committed personal fouls. They will be watched particularly closely in that game.

[hoosier]

Someone said/wrote that they were busy looking at his hand on the sidelines.

Maybe, but Harrison got flagged for helmet to helmet, which should have at least planted the question in their minds. Then, if all the training staff really missed the play, they have a gigantic replay screen to look at. Or they could just do what any sensible, distinterested person would do, which is to rule out the possibility that the helmet to helmet had a neurological impact. This looks and smells like a lame attempt at CYA.

[MJZiggy]

Very lame at that.

[Joemailman]

Holmgren said McCoy was not unconscious and responded to everything the medical staff asked him to do. When McCoy got to the sideline, Holmgren said Dr. Tom Waters joined the others to check on McCoy, who also answered questions to satisfaction.

At that point, Holmgren said McCoy was not showing any concussion symptoms so the standardized SCAT2 (Sport Concussion Assessment Tool) was not given.

"Their reaction to the way Colt was acting did not dictate that," he said. "They had not seen the play and he was talking, answering, knew how much time was left. So his response, following our normal protocol, did not dictate they administer the test."

I think the NFL may change that protocol. Any player who has to leave the game because of a blow to the head will get the SCAT2.

[Noodle]

I think the NFL may change that protocol. Any player who has to leave the game because of a blow to the head will get the SCAT2.

Not a bad idea, but if they do this, then the rule should be that the defender also has to leave the game for as long as the rocked dude is sitting. Otherwise, it'll be headshots galore on playmakers.

As to Harrison, suspend his hinder. No one can fault him for hitting McCoy, but it was BS for Harrison to aim high. Lower the aiming point. It's that simple. I've seen a ton of great hits this year where defenders led with a shoulder and drilled the guy in the chest instead of the head. Message delivered, but concussion avoided.

What's so friggin hard about that?

[pbmax]

There is no doubt the Browns are in CYA mode, as Holmgren skillfully walked into his press conference and declared that the aspersions being cast against the training, coaching and medical staff were completely unwarranted. That these staff were the best in football. What he was really doing was denying by ignoring management's (his) responsibility and letting people know that those three staffs are in charge of everything, they are just too busy to do it all the time. No one does obfuscation better than Holmgren.

But because everyone can deny knowledge of McCoy's head injury, the League is going to have to appoint someone to designate players who need an evaluation. So that if it doesn't get done, Holmgren can't have a press conference that absolves everyone. Someone needs to be accountable, whether it is a sideline based neurologist on the team payroll or a League official. Otherwise, Cleveland and Pittsburgh are going to continue to miss concussion-like symptoms on a regular basis.