Let him walk

[ND72]

Jermichael Finley is proving to be just an average TE. He's been proving more and more that he is just average or above average. Our offense has functioned better without him. If he thinks he's gonna get top TE money, goodbye.

[channtheman]

Agreed. I started to warm up to him, and now his play has just gone way downhill. I don't even want him back at all.

[Brandon494]

Learn something

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/variety-act-7v3b7f8-135146223.html

[channtheman]

We need to find a way to make Finley only a decoy. If we never have to throw to him, he can't drop the ball or cause INT's.

[Bretsky]

You keep guys with elite talent.
He's not the top TE in the game but he is undoubtedly top 8
Him and Jennings open things up for others
Teams game plan for that talent
You don't let that walk

[Freak Out]

Only if he demands insane $$$....he can be very good.

[Joemailman]

We need to find a way to make Finley only a decoy. If we never have to throw to him, he can't drop the ball or cause INT's.

If you're talking about the INT today, the defender got a hand on it because it was underthrown.

[Bretsky]

Only if he demands insane $$$....he can be very good.


Who cares what he demmands. You just franchise him. We can do that for the next two years. The franchise $$ is well worth keeping Finley with where TE salaries are.

[Freak Out]

Ah ya...I always forget about the franchise tag.

[Rutnstrut]

He's an over rated POS, if he played half as good as he talks, he would be awesome.

[pbmax]

He is the best TE on the roster and you would be hard pressed to improve on him with the 30th pick in the first round. Among other reasons, you keep him.

[sheepshead]

I think he can be coached up-If he wants the moon and the stars-look elsewhere

[gbgary]

what the fuck ever people. he's going to be here for the next six years at least. :D

[/thread]

[mission]

Im tired of this idiocy. How was our offense better last year?

Rodgers is having a year for the ages and people want to say "oh we won without him". Yeah, well we're undefeated with him.

Ridiculous.

CUT HIM LOL jesus

[mission]

Agreed. I started to warm up to him, and now his play has just gone way downhill. I don't even want him back at all.

Crabtree is going to be so much better next year anyway. I'd hate to have Finley back. Send him to the CFL!

[retailguy]

Learn something


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/variety-act-7v3b7f8-135146223.html


Great quotes in that article. Well done.

[RashanGary]

An awful lot of interceptions happen when AR throws the ball his way. Whenever Finley is on the field it seems like about half of is interceptions are on Finely targets. Maybe it's a fluke, but it's also a trend.

[SkinBasket]

If you're talking about the INT today, the defender got a hand on it because it was underthrown.

Under-thrown right into his fucking hands.

But I think it's stupid to let him walk.

[retailguy]

let him walk? Stupid talk. No f'in way.

[King Friday]

Yeah...letting him walk seems dumb. Franchising seems fine to me...he's a top 5 TE talent wise, so that isn't overpaying for him. I'm not sure how well Finley will take being franchised though.

[pbmax]

Under-thrown right into his fucking hands.

But I think it's stupid to let him walk.

It was underthrown, not uncatchable. He had to reach through the DB to reach the ball. Even if he gets it, the DBs arms are between Finley and the ball, easy to breakup. The ball should be higher.

Finley should also be able to make that catch on occasion.

[pbmax]

An awful lot of interceptions happen when AR throws the ball his way. Whenever Finley is on the field it seems like about half of is interceptions are on Finely targets. Maybe it's a fluke, but it's also a trend.

Its one or the other, not both. :)

[Zpark93]

We will see how valuable he is with Jennings out. But it would be stupid to let someone with his talent just walk.

[Lurker64]

Why is everybody opposed to using the Franchise Tag in a situation for which the Franchise Tag was basically invented for? It's not like it will be expensive to franchise Finley, either.

[gbgary]

An awful lot of interceptions happen when AR throws the ball his way. Whenever Finley is on the field it seems like about half of is interceptions are on Finely targets. Maybe it's a fluke, but it's also a trend.

AR doesn't throw an awful lot of interceptions. AR's few ints are on him most of the time.

[superfan]

I noticed a few excellent blocks he made, one was on Grant's 2nd TD. I was actually impressed with Finley today, showed more blocking than I've ever seen from him, despite the zero catches and his partial culpability on the INT. We'll see how he reacts this week. If he is grousing about not getting the ball, that would be a bad sign. If he says the right things about the team victory, then I'm on board with keeping him at a reasonable price.

[pbmax]

I noticed a few excellent blocks he made, one was on Grant's 2nd TD. I was actually impressed with Finley today, showed more blocking than I've ever seen from him, despite the zero catches and his partial culpability on the INT. We'll see how he reacts this week. If he is grousing about not getting the ball, that would be a bad sign. If he says the right things about the team victory, then I'm on board with keeping him at a reasonable price.

That makes it sound as if his attitude is week to week. He is on board. Its like Finley is the new Crosby around here.

[gbgary]

I noticed a few excellent blocks he made, one was on Grant's 2nd TD. I was actually impressed with Finley today, showed more blocking than I've ever seen from him, despite the zero catches and his partial culpability on the INT. We'll see how he reacts this week. If he is grousing about not getting the ball, that would be a bad sign. If he says the right things about the team victory, then I'm on board with keeping him at a reasonable price.

he hasn't complained about the ball since his rookie year. all he ever says is how happy he is being in Green Bay.

[mraynrand]

Im tired of this idiocy. How was our offense better last year?

Exactly. Thank you. 'Nuff said.

[RashanGary]

From the Giants game, on, when Starks got the running game back on track? Just as good, actually. Nuff said. End result? Champs. Nuff said. :) :)

Really though, it's the endless debate. The new forum bitch fight.

[ND72]

I really only ment to let him walking he thinks he's gonna get top money. It's become commical to watch him try to catch a ball. I know he does some nice stuff....but so does Brandon Pettigrew for Detroit, wouldn't insider him elite. Thing is, Rodgers might just stop throwing to him all together, which drops his price tag. Bill Michels tonight said from what he's heard through sources is every big drop he's had lately has dropped the packers offer "significantly".

[RashanGary]

I watched Gronkowski the last two weeks. It's not even close who's the better player. Finley is very overrated.

I love his chip blocks though. Finley plays with great attitude and is great at going up and getting the ball. As far as adjusting his routes in a way that AR actually knows WTF he's doing? Uh, yeah, he's leading the team in drops, has darn near half of them. He's just not very consistent this year.

[superfan]

I agree, his attitude has been very good this year. He just needs to stay the course. I can't help but think there may be a "bad Jermichael" still lurking deep down in there somewhere.

[ND72]

Jennings injury might be what Finley needs, as finleys injury last year was what Jennings needed.

[Upnorth]

That makes it sound as if his attitude is week to week. He is on board. Its like Finley is the new Crosby around here.

I hope you are right. Crosby is gold, let's hope finley starts catching like crosby makes field goals!

[denverYooper]

Jennings injury might be what Finley needs, as finleys injury last year was what Jennings needed.

We're likely to find out, unfortunately. I'll say this about Finley: he does seem to play better when they really need it.

[George Cumby]

The issue seems to be the drops and, to a lesser degree, his route running.... ok, and his verbose nature.

Lets just disregard his supposed "attitude" for now.

The drops and route running are a concentration issue, he is clearly capable of performing at a REALLY high level. So why is he having such a hard time focusing? McAdoo seems to have done a good job with our stable of other young tight ends (Ryan Taylor scored today, fer cryin' out loud.), why is J_Mike not getting it? What the hell is going on out there? It's really puzzling and frustrating.

But the kid is not helping his cause with all the drops. If he wants top end money, he needs to earn it. TT ain't gonna' give it up for "potential".

[pbmax]

I really only ment to let him walking he thinks he's gonna get top money. It's become commical to watch him try to catch a ball. I know he does some nice stuff....but so does Brandon Pettigrew for Detroit, wouldn't insider him elite. Thing is, Rodgers might just stop throwing to him all together, which drops his price tag. Bill Michels tonight said from what he's heard through sources is every big drop he's had lately has dropped the packers offer "significantly".

I can't see it dropping their current offer/position or they call their own evaluation system into question. It sounds more like bluster than a serious statement. Something I would expect from Michels but not from the Packers. I could see it lowering their willingness to increase their offer. Or hardening their current position.

[pbmax]

The issue seems to be the drops and, to a lesser degree, his route running.... ok, and his verbose nature.

".

See, that second contention is only an issue to the public. Since he went off on Rodgers his rookie year, both Thompson and McCarthy have said they enjoy having him around and are not bothered by him. He didn't even get e rebuke over photogate during Super Bowl week. I think the public loves to think of Finley as a receiver diva more than his team is concerned about it.

[collapse77]

I watched Gronkowski the last two weeks. It's not even close who's the better player. Finley is very overrated.

I love his chip blocks though. Finley plays with great attitude and is great at going up and getting the ball. As far as adjusting his routes in a way that AR actually knows WTF he's doing? Uh, yeah, he's leading the team in drops, has darn near half of them. He's just not very consistent this year.

This reminds me of your Starks vs Grant argument. Gronkowski is catching everything right now, but he'll never be a the threat that Finley is. Do the Patriots split Gronk out and throw jump balls to him? Finley lines up all over the field and draws multiple defenders making reading the defense that much easier for Rodgers. The guy has a lot of value and the Packers will pay him.

[King Friday]

Do the Patriots split Gronk out and throw jump balls to him?

Who cares? The guy can catch TDs in other ways...and the Pats use them. The Pats don't have the offensive firepower we have, so they use him like they have to.

[collapse77]

Who cares? The guy can catch TDs in other ways...and the Pats use them. The Pats don't have the offensive firepower we have, so they use him like they have to.
When you can split a guy out on the goaline and it's a favorable match up that's a big deal. John Kuhn can catch TDs in other ways. It doesn't mean he has more value.

[HarveyWallbangers]

More Finley hate. Ugh! We are 13-0 and Finley is a part of it. Let's enjoy this. I hope most of our guys get resigned. Draft, develop, and resign the good players. It's the TT way.

[Brandon494]

More Finley hate. Ugh! We are 13-0 and Finley is a part of it. Let's enjoy this. I hope most of our guys get resigned. Draft, develop, and resign the good players. It's the TT way.

The posters on this board who actually have a clue all agree how valuable Finley is, the guy is not going anywhere. Yea he's not having the best season but teams are still putting double coverage on him for a reason.

[jdrats]

If you're talking about the INT today, the defender got a hand on it because it was underthrown.

How is that even an int these days? If that's a receiver, with a defenders hands on the ball, before he goes out of bounds, seems to me they'd say he never established control.

If Finley justs lets the DB fall on top of him it's probably simultaneous possesion and a TD. Intead, Finley flips him out of bounds and somehow it's ruled an int.

After replay, the ref literally said, "The player had two hands on the ball..." Which seems a low standard.

A great play by that db, but, as mentioned earlier, I just don't get the NFL's cluster fuck of rules concerning a catch in the end zone.

[pbmax]

How is that even an int these days? If that's a receiver, with a defenders hands on the ball, before he goes out of bounds, seems to me they'd say he never established control.

If Finley justs lets the DB fall on top of him it's probably simultaneous possesion and a TD. Intead, Finley flips him out of bounds and somehow it's ruled an int.

After replay, the ref literally said, "The player had two hands on the ball..." Which seems a low standard.

A great play by that db, but, as mentioned earlier, I just don't get the NFL's cluster fuck of rules concerning a catch in the end zone.

Well, the DB did hang onto the ball after he hit the ground, so there is that. But its a great point, I wonder if the same rules apply to DBs on an INT?

[pbmax]

From the Giants game, on, when Starks got the running game back on track? Just as good, actually. Nuff said. End result? Champs. Nuff said. :) :)

Really though, it's the endless debate. The new forum bitch fight.

The offense this year has been Atlanta playoff game good in all but about 4 games. The 2010 Packer's offense followed a 45 point effort against a collapsing Giants team with 10, 21, 48, 21 and 31 points. After the Giants game that is an average of 26.2 points. The 2011 Packers are averaging 35.8.

If that is the only measure, Finley is worth 9.6 points per game. :lol:

Outside of QB, $8.5 million a year would never be better spent. :)

[Cheesehead Craig]

Like others have said, only Finley's asking price will determine if he stays. While he's a hell of a talent, if he asks for too much the Pack won't keep him. Personally, I hope and expect that he'll stay.

There's a reason the Packers kept 5 TEs on the roster this season. It's a giant backup plan in case they lose Finley this offseason. If he goes, there's 4 guys who have been with the team and practiced and played that they can work into the offense. If he stays, we can do it all again next season or use one of those guys as trade bait to shore up another area or our draft pick status.

I gotta say, the 5 TE roster move was wierd when it was first announced, but it's been a brilliant move.

[Brandon494]

I think the five TE move was more because of the lost of FB Hall and Johnson and special teams plays.

[pbmax]

And all but DJ Williams play big roles on Special Teams, something Johnson did not do.

[Patler]

The posters on this board who actually have a clue all agree how valuable Finley is, the guy is not going anywhere. Yea he's not having the best season but teams are still putting double coverage on him for a reason.

The problem is, if he doesn't start catching the ball consistently and making difficult plays more often, teams may not continue to be so concerned about him in their coverages. If that happens, he needs to take advantage of it.

[Tarlam!]

Learn something

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/variety-act-7v3b7f8-135146223.html

We gotta keep him. He's black.

[mraynrand]

We gotta keep him. He's talented.

fixed, as they say :)

[mraynrand]

Who cares? The guy can catch TDs in other ways...and the Pats use them. The Pats don't have the offensive firepower we have, so they use him like they have to.

yup. Pats still have Welker and Branch as their top wideouts. That's like Driver and Cobb starting for the Packers. You bet they are gonna throw to their TEs

[Brandon494]

We gotta keep him. He's black.

Hail Hitler!

[pbmax]

I wonder how much double coverage Welker draws. He is definitely on teams radar, as the Packers put Woodson on him, but I wonder how much he gets two bodies? Because everytime I see Gronkowski making a play, its against a LB. Branch isn't drawing double teams, is he?

[mraynrand]

I wonder how much double coverage Welker draws. He is definitely on teams radar, as the Packers put Woodson on him, but I wonder how much he gets two bodies? Because everytime I see Gronkowski making a play, its against a LB. Branch isn't drawing double teams, is he?

Not a chance. Single coverage is usually quite sufficient to keep Branch blanketed.

I've seen mixed coverages against Welker. Sometimes a CB follows him, and covers man under, sometimes a LB hands off to a safety. Most often, he runs uncovered in a zone. As well as putting Cwood in man coverage on him, I think the Packers even tried a match-up zone, but I'd have to go back to last Dec's game to see for sure. But the point remains that the TEs in NE are frequent targets, because they have to be.

[pbmax]

Not a chance. Single coverage is usually quite sufficient to keep Branch blanketed.

I've seen mixed coverages against Welker. Sometimes a CB follows him, and covers man under, sometimes a LB hands off to a safety. Most often, he runs uncovered in a zone. As well as putting Cwood in man coverage on him, I think the Packers even tried a match-up zone, but I'd have to go back to last Dec's game to see for sure. But the point remains that the TEs in NE are frequent targets, because they have to be.

Francois the TE killer will have no problem intercepting Brady on those routes.

[Fritz]

That makes it sound as if his attitude is week to week. He is on board. Its like Finley is the new Crosby around here.

I disagree. I have not heard a single soul say that Finley looks like that famous midget actor guy.


http://img.poptower.com/pic-42117/peter-dinklage.jpg?d=600

[mraynrand]

^^^^ Awesome!

[SkinBasket]

Hail Hitler!

You do realize there's a difference between Germans and Nazis right?

[pbmax]

You do realize there's a difference between Germans and Nazis right?

I think German's would spell that "Heil", no?

But how would an Aussie spell it?

[Pugger]

Let him walk? Even if we don't want him next year you don't let a guy like that just walk out the door and not get something for him. Hell, we didn't do that for #4 so we won't do that with JF.

[denverYooper]

Surprised none of the heshers up in this piece posted a Pantera clip:


http://youtu.be/IE0WYB8bZxA[/QUOTE]

[mmmdk]

Mein Führer! I can walk!

[Patler]

Let him walk? Even if we don't want him next year you don't let a guy like that just walk out the door and not get something for him. Hell, we didn't do that for #4 so we won't do that with JF.

We did with Rivera, Kampman, Colledge, Jenkins, etc. Letting Finley "walk" as a free agent would return draft pick compensation as it did/will for those.

#4 was still under contract, so without a trade would have returned nothing if just released. TT had to do that with Wahl and Sharper, but would prefer to get something when possible.

[Brandon494]

We did with Rivera, Kampman, Colledge, Jenkins, etc. Letting Finley "walk" as a free agent would return draft pick compensation as it did/will for those.

#4 was still under contract, so without a trade would have returned nothing if just released. TT had to do that with Wahl and Sharper, but would prefer to get something when possible.

-Rivera was let go because of cap space thanks for Sherman
-Kampman was let go because of the change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense and he was coming off a major injury
-Colledge was let go because hes not as good as he thought he was and the Cardinals overpaid for him
-Jenkins was let go because he was aging injury prone player.

Why exactly would we let Finley go again? You resign him or put the franchise tag on him..

[Joemailman]

We did with Rivera, Kampman, Colledge, Jenkins, etc. Letting Finley "walk" as a free agent would return draft pick compensation as it did/will for those.

#4 was still under contract, so without a trade would have returned nothing if just released. TT had to do that with Wahl and Sharper, but would prefer to get something when possible.

Those guys weren't 24 years old entering what should be the prime of their career. Finley's not going anywhere, and will likely be signed to an extension.

[Tarlam!]

I think German's would spell that "Heil", no?

But how would an Aussie spell it?

pbmax displaying his superior intellect one more time. And the current parties in Germany than run on a post-Nazi ticket win about 0.99% of the popular vote. By comparison, the post-communist party gains up to 18%. Those voters still long for the old East Germany where unemployment was 0%.

But if you REALLY want to meet some thoroughbred racists, visit South Africa. Two "jokes" I heard down there

1. "I hate racists! In fact, the two things I hate the most are racists and blacks!"
2. " Have nothing against blacks. Everyhousehold should have at least 3"

Oh, and an Aussie would probably spell it Hale Hitler, as in, I hope he gets hit by fist size ice clumps falling from the sky.

[George Cumby]

I am pulling this out of my ass:

88 is going to go on a tear the last few weeks of the season and into the playoffs.

After the Pack repeats, JMike gets a nice new contract.

But,like other things, this is coming out of my ass.

[pbmax]

pbmax displaying his superior intellect one more time. And the current parties in Germany than run on a post-Nazi ticket win about 0.99% of the popular vote. By comparison, the post-communist party gains up to 18%. Those voters still long for the old East Germany where unemployment was 0%.

But if you REALLY want to meet some thoroughbred racists, visit South Africa. Two "jokes" I heard down there

1. "I hate racists! In fact, the two things I hate the most are racists and blacks!"
2. " Have nothing against blacks. Everyhousehold should have at least 3"

Oh, and an Aussie would probably spell it Hale Hitler, as in, I hope he gets hit by fist size ice clumps falling from the sky.

Remarkable. Is every joke in the world transferable to every other culture? Maybe just with a similar socioeconomic system. Either way, I have heard each of those jokes before here., though the antagonist wasn't black in each case.

But to move this back to football, how would a German abbreviate YOTTO (Year of the Take Over)?

[pbmax]

I am pulling this out of my ass:

88 is going to go on a tear the last few weeks of the season and into the playoffs.

After the Pack repeats, JMike gets a nice new contract.

But,like other things, this is coming out of my ass.

He did it in 2009. I like this idea.

[Tarlam!]

But to move this back to football, how would a German abbreviate YOTTO (Year of the Take Over)?

Translated it is "Jahr der Übernahme" so the acronym would be "JdÜ". In German acronyms, only nouns are capitilzed. Usually.

[Tarlam!]

He did it in 2009. I like this idea.

Agree, all except for the fat contract, I hope he does tear it up, especially in Indie!

My worry is he gets the fat contract and then lets his perfomance slide. I think we all agree that DD has moulded the WR/TE core into a selfless bunch of professionals. I get a little concerned about the day his leadership is no longer in the locker room, and the main candidate to break the mould first IMHO is #88.

[MadtownPacker]

I am pulling this out of my ass:

88 is going to go on a tear the last few weeks of the season and into the playoffs.

After the Pack repeats, JMike gets a nice new contract.

But,like other things, this is coming out of my ass.

Like I said in another thread, this is his chance to make the YOTTO dream come true.

[pbmax]

Like I said in another thread, this is his chance to make the YOTTO dream come true.

If I know McCarthy, you will be sick of Finley by halftime of the Chiefs game. Hopefully, for the better.

Or perhaps more precisely, he will pick an angle to attack versus a good Chiefs D and stick with it for a half at least. And the odds are good (if not a mortal lock) that Finley will be the featured one.

[Patler]

Let him walk? Even if we don't want him next year you don't let a guy like that just walk out the door and not get something for him. Hell, we didn't do that for #4 so we won't do that with JF.


We did with Rivera, Kampman, Colledge, Jenkins, etc. Letting Finley "walk" as a free agent would return draft pick compensation as it did/will for those.

#4 was still under contract, so without a trade would have returned nothing if just released. TT had to do that with Wahl and Sharper, but would prefer to get something when possible.


-Rivera was let go because of cap space thanks for Sherman
-Kampman was let go because of the change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense and he was coming off a major injury
-Colledge was let go because hes not as good as he thought he was and the Cardinals overpaid for him
-Jenkins was let go because he was aging injury prone player.

Why exactly would we let Finley go again? You resign him or put the franchise tag on him..


Those guys weren't 24 years old entering what should be the prime of their career. Finley's not going anywhere, and will likely be signed to an extension.

Uhhhh.... I didn't say they should let him walk, just pointed out that if they did, it wouldn't be for nothing, anymore than it was for Kampman, Jenkins or any of the others. They would get draft pick compensation.

I also pointed out that the Favre situation was different, and a trade was needed to get "something" because he was under contract. Their options were to trade him or release him, and if released they would have gotten nothing as with Sharper and Wahle.

I made no comment or suggestion what I thought the SHOULD do with him, just identified the option available.

Finley will be signed or franchised. The franchise for 2012 is too cheap not to anyway, but the injury to Quarless, which may result in him missing 2012, leaves the Packers with no suitable starter returning.

Now don't start listing why Finley is better than Quarless, I already know and acknowledge that he is. It has nothing to do with why I think they might have chosen to go on without Finley if Quarless had been available.

[Pugger]

Uhhhh.... I didn't say they should let him walk, just pointed out that if they did, it wouldn't be for nothing, anymore than it was for Kampman, Jenkins or any of the others. They would get draft pick compensation.

I also pointed out that the Favre situation was different, and a trade was needed to get "something" because he was under contract. Their options were to trade him or release him, and if released they would have gotten nothing as with Sharper and Wahle.

I made no comment or suggestion what I thought the SHOULD do with him, just identified the option available.

Finley will be signed or franchised. The franchise for 2012 is too cheap not to anyway, but the injury to Quarless, which may result in him missing 2012, leaves the Packers with no suitable starter returning.

Now don't start listing why Finley is better than Quarless, I already know and acknowledge that he is. It has nothing to do with why I think they might have chosen to go on without Finley if Quarless had been available.

Then maybe you should retitle this thread.

[pbmax]

Then maybe you should retitle this thread.

Different poster. And this post went up mid-game, so its kind of like an extension of the Game Day thread. Where we think we are Bill Walsh, but we are really more like Todd Haley. :D

[Patler]

Then maybe you should retitle this thread.

I should re-title a thread started by someone else? Why in the world should I do that? How in the world would I do that?

ALL I was doing in my reply to you was to point out the differences between the Finley situation and that with Favre (which you brought up and drew a comparison to). If Finley were to be allowed to "walk" it would be as a free agent following expiration of his contract, and the Packers would get draft pick compensation (assuming they didn't sign equivalent free agents) just like they did/will for Kampman, Colledge, Jenkins, etc. The only option for getting anything from Favre was through a trade because Favre was still under contract and otherwise would have to have been released like Sharper and Wahle, for whom the Packers got nothing in return.

[Pugger]

Sorry Patler, I thought you started this thread. My bad!!! :oops:

[HarveyWallbangers]

The QB likes him. He'll stay.

[Patler]

Sorry Patler, I thought you started this thread. My bad!!! :oops:

Not a problem.

[Brandon494]

Sorry Patler, I thought you started this thread. My bad!!! :oops:

Honest mistake, we all know where Patler stands when it comes to Finley.

[George Cumby]

Different poster. And this post went up mid-game, so its kind of like an extension of the Game Day thread. Where we think we are Bill Walsh, but we are really more like Todd Haley. :D

Fuck that. I'm Rich Kotite.

[Patler]

Honest mistake, we all know where Patler stands when it comes to Finley.



Actually from your earlier response to me in this thread, as well as your comments to (and about) me in previous threads, I sincerely doubt that you do understand where I stand on Finley. I am also fairly certain that you never will understand where I stand on Finley.

[KYPack]

Actually from your earlier response to me in this thread, as well as your comments to (and about) me in previous threads, I sincerely doubt that you do understand where I stand on Finley. I am also fairly certain that you never will understand where I stand on Finley.

Fee
Fi
Fo
Fized

Another young grasshopper just got Patlerized.

Actually, that whole exchange reminded me of when Lloyd Bentsen told Dan Quayle, "You're no Jack Kennedy, Senator".

That was a funny one, too.

[Upnorth]

I hope George is right, but please please quit pulling stuff out of you a@@, that is not healthy for you man. THink of the poor health care workers who will have to sew you back up if you rip something.

Also if anyone could figure out a way to retitle someone else's thread my money is on Patler.

ALong story short we should resign Finley, and I hope the last 6 games of this season force us to pay him more!

[Smidgeon]

Agree, all except for the fat contract, I hope he does tear it up, especially in Indie!

My worry is he gets the fat contract and then lets his perfomance slide. I think we all agree that DD has moulded the WR/TE core into a selfless bunch of professionals. I get a little concerned about the day his leadership is no longer in the locker room, and the main candidate to break the mould first IMHO is #88.

I don't think Finley's performance would slide. I get the impression that he's a very prideful young man who wants to be the best at what he does. I think he's got the same TO drive to always be the best. Just my thoughts.

[Brandon494]

Actually from your earlier response to me in this thread, as well as your comments to (and about) me in previous threads, I sincerely doubt that you do understand where I stand on Finley. I am also fairly certain that you never will understand where I stand on Finley.

You just posted that you thought there was a chance we would let go of Finley because of Quarless, that's like saying we don't need Greg Jennings because we have James Jones. I don't know why you just won't admit he's not one of your favorite guys on the Packers, but if Im wrong find me one post where you compliment the guy without it being back handed.

[Little Whiskey]

Also if anyone could figure out a way to retitle someone else's thread my money is on Patler.



I'd take that bet!

[denverYooper]

The QB likes him. He'll stay.

This is a solid point.

Part of Finley's "problem" right now seems to be an expanded role in the offense, in terms of how much he gets moved around. His game isn't thinking but they're making him do a lot of it these days. I feel like he'll settle down a lot once he internalizes the playbook and his catch rate will go up some. He's much better when he just has to react.

[Tarlam!]

Another young grasshopper just got Patlerized.

I never get enough credit around here, but I want it marked down in the annals of PR, that it was I, Tarlam!, that coined the phrase of being Patlerized. Otherwise, I'll have you all whacked!

[pbmax]

I never get enough credit around here, but I want it marked down in the annals of PR, that it was I, Tarlam!, that coined the phrase of being Patlerized. Otherwise, I'll have you all whacked!

Remember to get BOMNF! trademarked too.

[Zool]

You just posted that you thought there was a chance we would let go of Finley because of Quarless, that's like saying we don't need Greg Jennings because we have James Jones. I don't know why you just won't admit he's not one of your favorite guys on the Packers, but if Im wrong find me one post where you compliment the guy without it being back handed.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a direct quote from Patler about his feelings on any player. You'll normally get a comparison to an existing or past player as well as some contract details. Saying they might let Finley go because of Quarless has nothing to do with Patlers direct feeling on the subject only past Packer history of letting someone go if someone else can step in and play.

[swede]

POTWH never caught on.:neutral:

[Patler]

Actually from your earlier response to me in this thread, as well as your comments to (and about) me in previous threads, I sincerely doubt that you do understand where I stand on Finley. I am also fairly certain that you never will understand where I stand on Finley.


You just posted that you thought there was a chance we would let go of Finley because of Quarless, that's like saying we don't need Greg Jennings because we have James Jones. I don't know why you just won't admit he's not one of your favorite guys on the Packers, but if Im wrong find me one post where you compliment the guy without it being back handed.

You just proved my point.

First, in answer to your last statement, most on here should remember that I gushed positively about the guy his second season. I took every opportunity to point out how much he had changed as a player and as an adult. I even referred to it as one of the more dramatic changes I had ever seen in a young player over one off season.

As to the remainder of your post, by now you should realize that my feelings about a long term, top-five contract for Finley have absolutely nothing to do with him personally. It has everything to do with the position he plays. You either fail to understand that, or just chose to ignore what I have clearly said time and time again.

I have routinely stated that, in my opinion, the offense will continue to be very, very good with a decent TE, it doesn't need a great TE to flourish. Is it better with a great TE? Absolutely. I have said that time and time again. I have readily and freely acknowledged that Finley is a much better receiver than any other TE on the roster; but in my opinion the balance in this offense would allow it to take a step down in talent at the TE position to save cap space for use at another more critical position on the team.

As for your analogy to Jennings, I disagree; again because of the relative impact of the positions, in my opinion. Over the years, the impression I have gained is that a very good passing offense can usually absorb the loss of TE better than it can its top WR. It might have to do with needing three of them at least. IF the WRs are mediocre, but the TE outstanding; obviously the loss of the TE could be crippling, but that is not the case on GB. You can be both creative and explosive without a TE on the field.

There is a young corp of very strong performers on this team, and eventually all will be on second or third contracts. At some point soon Rodgers will take a very large portion of the salary cap. When those things happen, at times the Packers will have to let a player or two leave who they really would like to keep. It happened under Wolf in the '90s; it will happen eventually under TT as well. I think Finley could be the first.

As for whether my praise for Finley is always backhanded, you are wrong. My praise is always straight forward, nothing backhanded about it at all. BUT my praise often is coupled with recognition that Finley is an enigma, and a fluctuating one at that. I chose to recognize what I see as the good, the bad and the relative significance about him and the position he plays. On the other hand, you seem to focus only on the good and discount or ignore all the rest.

[Patler]

Also if anyone could figure out a way to retitle someone else's thread my money is on Patler.


I'd take that bet!

Thanks Upnorth, but I think Little Whiskey understands the "depth" of my computer skills. I would take your bet too!!! :lol: :lol:

[MadtownPacker]

Actually, that whole exchange reminded me of when Lloyd Bentsen told Dan Quayle, "You're no Jack Kennedy, Senator".
Reminded me of the Walden situation. Guy getting accused of some shit he probably didnt do.

[Tarlam!]

Honest mistake, we all know where Patler stands when it comes to Finley.


Yeah. Patler KNOWS Finley is black.

[Smidgeon]

As for your analogy to Jennings, I disagree; again because of the relative impact of the positions, in my opinion. Over the years, the impression I have gained is that a very good passing offense can usually absorb the loss of TE better than it can its top WR. It might have to do with needing three of them at least. IF the WRs are mediocre, but the TE outstanding; obviously the loss of the TE could be crippling, but that is not the case on GB. You can be both creative and explosive without a TE on the field.

I actually read a pretty good argument by Waldo a while back stating that the return on a great TE over a good one is better than the return on a great WR on a good one. I don't remember the specifics since it was a while back (and I'm no longer on that forum), but the study he was referencing did comparative studies on WR replacements versus TE replacements. I don't know if the accuracy/truth is there or if it was incidental, but it was a fascinating concept nonetheless.

[mraynrand]

You just proved my point.....I chose to recognize what I see as the good, the bad and the relative significance about him and the position he plays. On the other hand, you seem to focus only on the good and discount or ignore all the rest.

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Patlerized.jpg

[mission]

POTWH never caught on.:neutral:

Disappointing indeed. I tried -- you tried -- but I'm not sure very many people can relate. Especially Pugger. :lol:

[mission]

How does Quarless have anything to do with Finley though? I'm lost. Guys aren't even in the same stratosphere, even accounting for the negatives of Finley (drops, talking etc).

Imagine D-coordinators rolling their coverages around Quarless. Not to mention #81 might not even play next season.

I like Patler, respect Patler, but you guys are real quick to throw out the Patlerized.

[mraynrand]

How does Quarless have anything to do with Finley though? I'm lost. Guys aren't even in the same stratosphere, even accounting for the negatives of Finley (drops, talking etc).

Imagine D-coordinators rolling their coverages around Quarless. Not to mention #81 might not even play next season.

I like Patler, respect Patler, but you guys are real quick to throw out the Patlerized.

The Patlerized was for Patler definitively demonstrating that Brandon misrepresented Patler's position. I am firmly in the Finley camp with Brandon and you. The original spat was whether to prioritize signing Wells or Finley, and I thought - and still think - it's absurd to favor Wells. In my estimation, it's much easier to replace Wells than Finley. That's my opinion. Misrepresent it and I will Paterlize you.

[mission]

The Patlerized was for Patler definitively demonstrating that Brandon misrepresented Patler's position. I am firmly in the Finley camp with Brandon and you. The original spat was whether to prioritize signing Wells or Finley, and I thought - and still think - it's absurd to favor Wells. In my estimation, it's much easier to replace Wells than Finley. That's my opinion. Misrepresent it and I will Paterlize you.

I'm with you 100% on all of that. Usually am. (don't patlerize me!)

I missed the Wells thing... thought it was about him telling Brandon he would never understand his position on Finley or whatever that was about.

[pbmax]

Quarless enters the picture as the replacement level player. While healthy, he offered a young but tested substitute starter. Now injured, the dropoff is much greater. Its not that Quarless could perform at Finley's level or draw the same attention, its what would be left if Finley were to leave.

To Patler's point, Thompson has shown in the past that he would not hesitate to cut someone who did not represent value at a certain price/age/production, regardless of who the depth was. However, he has been more generous the longer he has stayed. And that probably has less to do with a change of heart versus a change in the short and long term cap situation and the relative talent on the roster and its proximity to competing in the playoffs.

[mission]

To Patler's point, Thompson has shown in the past that he would not hesitate to cut someone who did not represent value at a certain price/age/production, regardless of who the depth was. However, he has been more generous the longer he has stayed. And that probably has less to do with a change of heart versus a change in the short and long term cap situation and the relative talent on the roster and its proximity to competing in the playoffs.

I really wish that was true with AJ Hawk. Like the guy, but not $33 million worth of 'like'.

[mraynrand]

Quarless enters the picture as the replacement level player. While healthy, he offered a young but tested substitute starter. Now injured, the dropoff is much greater. Its not that Quarless could perform at Finley's level or draw the same attention, its what would be left if Finley were to leave.


All Ryan Taylor does is score touchdowns

[Tarlam!]

All Ryan Taylor does is score touchdowns

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahah ahah

[Tarlam!]

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Patlerized.jpg

Yeah, you made the "stamp",but I coined the phrase. I want my dues! But, you did make a nice stamp!

[denverYooper]

All Ryan Taylor does is score touchdowns

Finally! A suitable replacement for Havner!

[Brandon494]

How does Quarless have anything to do with Finley though? I'm lost. Guys aren't even in the same stratosphere, even accounting for the negatives of Finley (drops, talking etc).

Imagine D-coordinators rolling their coverages around Quarless. Not to mention #81 might not even play next season.

I like Patler, respect Patler, but you guys are real quick to throw out the Patlerized.

They just like to see someone prove me wrong but time will prove I'm right. :)

[Brandon494]

I actually read a pretty good argument by Waldo a while back stating that the return on a great TE over a good one is better than the return on a great WR on a good one. I don't remember the specifics since it was a while back (and I'm no longer on that forum), but the study he was referencing did comparative studies on WR replacements versus TE replacements. I don't know if the accuracy/truth is there or if it was incidental, but it was a fascinating concept nonetheless.

Exactly, some fail to realize how a tight end can be a QB's best friend. Look what Brady and Brees have at the TE positions and some want to let Finley walk so we can focus on other positions? What other positions do we need to focus on resigning that are most important then keeping a top player at in his positions who has yet to even enter his prime.

[Brandon494]

There is a young corp of very strong performers on this team, and eventually all will be on second or third contracts. At some point soon Rodgers will take a very large portion of the salary cap. When those things happen, at times the Packers will have to let a player or two leave who they really would like to keep. It happened under Wolf in the '90s; it will happen eventually under TT as well. I think Finley could be the first.

You do realize contracts like Grant, Clifton, Driver, Pickett, and possibly Collins among others will be off the books by then right? Unlike Wolf TT doesn't go after FAs and builds his team thru the draft. Reason Wolf had to let players go was because of FA signings, TT is much better at handling then cap then Wolf was.

As for whether my praise for Finley is always backhanded, you are wrong. My praise is always straight forward, nothing backhanded about it at all. BUT my praise often is coupled with recognition that Finley is an enigma, and a fluctuating one at that. I chose to recognize what I see as the good, the bad and the relative significance about him and the position he plays. On the other hand, you seem to focus only on the good and discount or ignore all the rest.

What you call discounting or ignoring I call overreacting by some fans, that was you who made such a big deal about him showing up to camp weighing less right?

[denverYooper]

This theory goes as follows and begins now. All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much much thicker in the middle, and the thin again at the far end. That is my theory, it is mine, and it belongs to me, and I own it, and what it is, too.

[mraynrand]

They just like to see someone prove me wrong but time will prove I'm right. :)


You were wrong about Patler's position, but I think you will be right about Finley. You know your football.

[Upnorth]

This Offence is better with Finley than without. He is a significant contributor and worth a good contract, I have previously stated the I am okay with about 7.5/year of contract, but would like to see a lower base that has increases for catch rates that would put it over 8mil.

If he does not stay we will be an excellent offence still, however I would rather see him here.

[George Cumby]

Finley is a good player with the potential to be great.

I roll my eyes at his grandiosity, at times. BUT: at the beginning of last year I saw him bring a Michael Irvin-esque swagger to the offense that seemed to rub off on his team-mates. It was a kind of "we're gonna' kick your ass all day" aura. While I detest Irvin, I loved that attitude.

After JMike got injured last year and the team went on their fabled run, they developed their identity so 88's power of personality seems to be diluted. So that swagger, although there, doesn't jump out as much.

Furthermore, as many have stated here, there is no real indication that the guy is anything but a good team-mate.

He stays and probably for a reasonable price.

[Fritz]

Exactly, some fail to realize how a tight end can be a QB's best friend. Look what Brady and Brees have at the TE positions and some want to let Finley walk so we can focus on other positions? What other positions do we need to focus on resigning that are most important then keeping a top player at in his positions who has yet to even enter his prime.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCF7Dnov8vA

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/340/920/96534848_display_image.jpg?

[mraynrand]

Don't make Eddie's father angry. You won't like him when he's angry.

[pbmax]

This theory goes as follows and begins now. All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much much thicker in the middle, and the thin again at the far end. That is my theory, it is mine, and it belongs to me, and I own it, and what it is, too.

My people call this animal "snake that ate an egg".

[jdrats]

Seems to me that all the discussion of Finley not being worth the big bucks and Driver being over the hill is because, as Packer fans, this year we don't have much of anything else to complain about, at least in regards to the offense.

But 58 seconds left and needing a score, and the first pass is to Finley.

Anytime facing a third and long and Driver is as likely as anyone to be the target.

I seem to remember this character named Charles Woodson who was a real loud mouth coming out of college and through most of his years with his first team. Never would have wanted him as a Packer, certainly would have been a locker room cancer.

In fact, pretty much everything I've heard from finley has been team oriented. And over a month ago he said he'd be glad to be Franchised by GB this year.

Way too much has been made of his drops. Didn't Jordy lead the team in drops last year?

I expect Finley to step it up big time with Jennings out and I'm betting we'll all be glad to have them both in the playoffs.

With three weeks to go, this team has already set a record for TDs scored in a season. Even if all Finley ever did was open up other receivers, they'd still be fools to let him get away. With McCarthy's emphasis on my-guy-is-better-than-your-defender no way do they let Finley get away. He will be a Packer for a long time.

[KYPack]

Finley has had an up and down year. He came up big against the Giants and was a go to guy in clutch time. 6 grabs and a TD with some big catches. He also had some key blocks in that game. One block dropped my jaw. He made a great read and executed a flawless angle block on the big Giant DE. Two years ago, he doesn't sniff that block, he would have blown the read. This year, he was on him like a big cat. Engage, sustain and finish, a form block all the way. He's not a green kid anymore.

But he still has a lot of work to do. He's 17th for TE's in catch rate at 61.8%. Thats what the 8 drops (he's tied for 6th in the league for most drops) gets ya. He runs sloppy routes and still has more to refine in his overall game. But he'll run the dog shit out of that seam route and the fade. Gronk and Graham are ahead of him as TE's. But Finley is the leading TE in the NFL in Yds/catch at 14.3.

He's a big thing and opposing DC's have to account for him on every play, usually giving two guys the responsibility to watch the big kid. No way MM wants to have a tool like that taken out of his playcalling toolkit. I'm siding with our resident grasshopper and Finley fan. I say the big kid stays in the picture and on the team.

[Tarlam!]

KY, even Rodgers has publicly called him out this season for not spending enough time in the study room. I think he relies way too much on his God given gifts still to be the elite TE he SHOULD be. Even in his last interview, Rodgers downgraded Finley's status from "the best TE in the game" (last season) to "one of the best".

I know, I am dissecting straws here, but it occured to me that the Franchise QB expects more. I might be completely off base, but Rodgers chooses his words rather carefully.

[KYPack]

KY, even Rodgers has publicly called him out this season for not spending enough time in the study room. I think he relies way too much on his God given gifts still to be the elite TE he SHOULD be. Even in his last interview, Rodgers downgraded Finley's status from "the best TE in the game" (last season) to "one of the best".

I know, I am dissecting straws here, but it occured to me that the Franchise QB expects more. I might be completely off base, but Rodgers chooses his words rather carefully.

I musta missed the "he should work harder" deal, or forgot it, one or the other.

if ARod said it, he's freakin' right! Finley definitely needs to work harder if he wants to be the best. Finley needs to work on his route running and refine his craft. He's sloppy, and rounds his routes, does a weak job of selling his fakes, etc. This really stood out to me when I saw the Saints play. Jimmy Graham ran a hook and go route that was a thing of beauty. Then I saw Finley run the same route and he just gave it a lick and a promise. Graham and Gronk are number 1, Finley needs to works at it if he wants the top of the mountain.

That said, Finley can be the best, if he'll bear down and put in the work.

[Fritz]

This is what most people think is the real question, isn't it? Will Finley put in the time to become the best he can be ? - which we all agree is damn good.

I suspect that MM and TT are in a better position to answer that and have come to some conclusions. All public word has been that the kid's a hard worker. So I'll go with that. I wonder if maybe it's less about his work habits and more about lapses in concentration.

I dunno. But I say you re-sign him, and if you can't, you slap the franny tag on him and try to work something out next year. Try finding that kind of blue-chip talent in the draft. It ain't easy - even for Ted.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From ESPN.


The NFL's top five tight ends
Matt Williamson, Scouts Inc.

The NFL has become a passing league and athletic, receiving tight ends are in vogue because stopping such players is extremely difficult. Put cornerbacks on them? Tight ends will run them over. Safeties can't keep up. Linebackers? Forget about it.

Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates started the trend and players like Jimmy Graham, Jermichael Finley and Rob Gronkowski are taking the torch now.

Who are the top five tight ends in the game today? Here is my list:

1. Rob Gronkowski

To me, there are three elite tight ends in the NFL right now. But while Gronkowski might be slightly less athletic and dangerous than Finley or Graham, he is far better as a blocker in the run and pass games. And we can't forget that blocking is a fundamental part of playing tight end. But Gronkowski isn't exactly a slouch as a receiver, either. More physical in getting position than Finley or Graham and also more physical after the catch, Gronkowski plays the game -- and the position -- like it was meant to be played. For a person as big as this guy is, he just shouldn't be able to move like he does. He is at his best near the goal line and has scored touchdowns at a remarkable rate.

2. Jimmy Graham

Amazingly, Graham is still very much a work in progress -- and that is scary since he's second in the NFL with 80 receptions this season. A few times every game, you see Graham and Drew Brees not quite being on the same page with the route the second-year tight end is expected to run, and my guess is that Brees is the one who is right 99 percent of the time. That isn't a knock on Graham, as he has very little experience playing this game at the NFL or college level. But he still makes the game look easy. This is an extremely special player, and he's only getting better.

3. Jermichael Finley

Graham over Finley is really splitting hairs. Finley's receiving numbers just don't compare this season, but Finley is further along right now, a slightly better athlete and more difficult cover. As great as the Packers' wide receivers are, to me, Finley is the guy who opens up room in the passing game for those around him. Yes, he has some inconsistencies, but it's also nearly impossible to guard him with just one defensive player. Again, I realize Finley's stats do not compare to Graham's, but let's see what he does now with Greg Jennings out of the lineup. Graham and Finley are neck-and-neck to me.

4. Jason Witten

I think Witten has a legitimate argument to someday be inducted into the Hall of Fame. His career has been fantastic, but 2011 hasn't been Witten's best season. And I am beginning to have concerns that his skills are beginning to decline slightly. It happens to everyone (even the guy listed fifth on this list). But there is also no denying that Witten is still an extremely effective blocker and receiver. He is reliable, tough and does everything asked of him extremely well. However, Witten is just no longer a difference-maker like the three tight ends listed above him.

5. Tony Gonzalez

Picking a fifth tight end on this list was very difficult, as, honestly, there aren't many worthy candidates. Antonio Gates has not been Antonio Gates -- although his past few games have been promising. Gates and Gonzalez -- two future Hall of Famers -- were both very close for this final spot … and they both are getting by with wisdom and experience at this point. Owen Daniels also was a strong consideration. Daniels is an extremely good route runner and solid all-around receiving option. Dallas Clark can't possibly be considered this season. Vernon Davis should be a top-five tight end, but the production just isn't there. Heath Miller is a very solid two-way player at the position. And Aaron Hernandez is a great receiver. But Gonzalez is quietly having an excellent season, after many of us wrote him off. He is doing his best work in the red zone. Gonzalez has been very impressive this season and deserves kudos for sure, but in the end, the elite list probably ends with Witten.

[Brandon494]

Stop posting these articles that make sense Harvey, Finley needs to go!

[smuggler]

"What do the best QBs in the league all have in common?" asks smuggler.

[Noodle]

But 58 seconds left and needing a score, and the first pass is to Finley.

Exactly -- good post, JDRats. Kind of indicates who A-Rod trusts. And Finley rewards that trust by making a hella great play that kickstarts the entire drive.

Give him a full pre-season to work on his routes and his connection with A-Rod, and I could see Finley having a monster season next year.

As to his contract, the Pack will tag him, fight about whether he should get the TE Tag price (about $5.4M for 2012) or the WR tag price (about $9.4M for 2012), then agree to split it at around $7M, and all will be good in Titletown. At least that's what I'm ordering my GM to do as a Packer Owner.

[pbmax]

This is what most people think is the real question, isn't it? Will Finley put in the time to become the best he can be ? - which we all agree is damn good.

I suspect that MM and TT are in a better position to answer that and have come to some conclusions. All public word has been that the kid's a hard worker. So I'll go with that. I wonder if maybe it's less about his work habits and more about lapses in concentration.

I dunno. But I say you re-sign him, and if you can't, you slap the franny tag on him and try to work something out next year. Try finding that kind of blue-chip talent in the draft. It ain't easy - even for Ted.

Finley has worked pretty hard in the past couple of years. His practice habits weren't thought to be good his first year. Everyone was talking about his development before 2010 and this most recent offseason he was rehabbing a torn ACL plus 2 additional surgeries to fix an infection. And he recovered from all that in 10 months (Nov to August). So he probably has not had a typical offseason in terms of TE work, even taking into account the lockout.

I worry less about his work ethic than about the results; he still does not have the same relationship to Rodgers as Nelson and even Jones seem to have in terms of QB-WR mind meld.

[Tarlam!]

When Finley screws up a route, misses a block or drops an easily catchable pass, watch Rodgers stare him down when he comes back to the huddle. I have made this a focal point because Rodgers sets the tone and he clearly signals to me, that Finley is working sloppy. And he has said as much in his post games this season, but with the dignity and respect he alway displays. Rodgers is challenging Finley. At the same time, he distributes him the ball, and the opportunities.

I am so convinced of this. And i think TT and M3 will lend their ears to what rodgers has to say about it, despite their policy on recruiting and running the team. Rodgers' football maturity is so obvious that they would be madmen not to take his opinion into consideration.

I wonder what Finley is like with a QB not named Rodgers, Manning, Brees or Brady. Particularly if his route running is as described by KY in that earlier post.

[MadtownPacker]

Maybe he just needs lasik.

[RashanGary]

I musta missed the "he should work harder" deal, or forgot it, one or the other.

if ARod said it, he's freakin' right! Finley definitely needs to work harder if he wants to be the best. Finley needs to work on his route running and refine his craft. He's sloppy, and rounds his routes, does a weak job of selling his fakes, etc. This really stood out to me when I saw the Saints play. Jimmy Graham ran a hook and go route that was a thing of beauty. Then I saw Finley run the same route and he just gave it a lick and a promise. Graham and Gronk are number 1, Finley needs to works at it if he wants the top of the mountain.

That said, Finley can be the best, if he'll bear down and put in the work.

The moment I realized Finley wasn't as good as I thought was when I went to youtube and flipped on Tony Gonzalez. Sure, he was a 1,000 yard per year TE for over a decade, but I went there expecting to find a similar athlete with a similar game to Finley. What I saw, even in a young Gonzalez, was a guy who ran amazing routes. He made the Finley type circus catches, but he also had safety and corners hips turned all around and created separation on top of using his elite physical talent.

Finley is an elite talent. I'm not so sure he's an elite football player. I think he's trying plenty hard. I just wonder if he has a feel for what's going on out there, for how he's being approached, for how he needs to adjust. . . . . Gonzalez knew how to set up defenders, knew how to coast through the zone, leaving a larger time window. Finley just runs his routes, seems to be caught off guard when a ball is thrown away from coverage, instead of right where Finley was running. . . Jennings, Nelson and Driver seem like they know the ball will be lead away from the defender and are more ready to adjust.

It's just little things about his game. He's just not living up. Jennings puts up the numbers year after year after year, even when he didn't have Finley or a running game to take pressure off him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The moment I realized Finley wasn't as good as I thought was when I went to youtube and flipped on Tony Gonzalez. Sure, he was a 1,000 yard per year TE for over a decade, but I went there expecting to find a similar athlete with a similar game to Finley. What I saw, even in a young Gonzalez, was a guy who ran amazing routes. He made the Finley type circus catches, but he also had safety and corners hips turned all around and created separation on top of using his elite physical talent.

Finley is an elite talent. I'm not so sure he's an elite football player. I think he's trying plenty hard. I just wonder if he has a feel for what's going on out there, for how he's being approached, for how he needs to adjust. . . . . Gonzalez knew how to set up defenders, knew how to coast through the zone, leaving a larger time window. Finley just runs his routes, seems to be caught off guard when a ball is thrown away from coverage, instead of right where Finley was running. . . Jennings, Nelson and Driver seem like they know the ball will be lead away from the defender and are more ready to adjust.

It's just little things about his game. He's just not living up. Jennings puts up the numbers year after year after year, even when he didn't have Finley or a running game to take pressure off him.

Actually, Jennings' numbers went down dramatically when Finley was doing his thing at the end of 2009 and early in 2010. There are only so many balls to go around. I know Finley has a lot of drops, but on a team without Jennings, Nelson, and even Driver, Jones, and Cobb, I think Finley's numbers would be up there with the elite. It's hard for a team to have three 1000 yard receivers--even one that passes for close to 5000 yards. He's having a bad season for him, but he's helping the offense. That's all I really care about. We have already scored over 460 points and there are still three games left. Completely shattering the team record and up there with the best offenses of all-time.

[Patler]

You do realize contracts like Grant, Clifton, Driver, Pickett, and possibly Collins among others will be off the books by then right? Unlike Wolf TT doesn't go after FAs and builds his team thru the draft. Reason Wolf had to let players go was because of FA signings, TT is much better at handling then cap then Wolf was.

What? There are expiring contracts? Who would have thought? :lol: :lol:

Seriously, though, how is that any different from any other year? It isn't. There are always some that are expiring. However, when a team gains great success relying on a lot of players in their first contracts, one of the problems they face is that in a short time they have more starters looking for new contracts than they have old codgers being put to pasture.

Your distinction of Wolf signing FAs from other teams and TT not doing so really makes little difference. TT signs a lot of his own FAs. It makes no difference to the cap where the FA comes from, only what you pay him. Both Wolf and TT gained success with strong drafts. Wolf was challenged in trying to keep all of the young players who made a difference, and TT will be too, eventually.

TT has shown great willingness to sign players in the top 10-15 range, and with some frequency for the better players in the top 5-10 for the position. Their forays into the top 1-5 have been infrequent and reserved for the truly elite performers on their team. Being a little stingy is how he affords more players. Whether they can reach a long-term deal or not will depend on Finley's expectations.


What you call discounting or ignoring I call overreacting by some fans, that was you who made such a big deal about him showing up to camp weighing less right?

Big deal about him weighing less? No, not at all. However, I did find it particularly odd that he would chose to do something (lose weight) and openly admit that he expected his coaches wouldn't be happy about it. I found it odd that he would intentionally go against the teams wishes. There were several instances of the coaches remarking that they expected Finley could bulk up effectively, and that doing so would help him.

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I had forgotten it. A discussion on another board has focused on why Finley seems less physical on pass routes. LBs seem to be able to disrupt his routes easier this year, and he doesn't muscle for position as well on contested balls this year. I think the interception last week is a good example. He should have been able to muscle himself into better position for that ball. I will go back to that site and remind everyone about Finley's desire to lighten up.

Finley will be back next year, the new calculation of the franchise tag cost for a TE is too cheap not to take advantage of it in 2012. I'm not so confident that the Packers can (or should) finalize a longer-term top five type deal with him, even if he is a top 5 TE talent.

[George Cumby]

I'm not so confident that the Packers can (or should) finalize a longer-term top five type deal with him, even if he is a top 5 TE talent.

The "can" in this statement revolves around cap space, correct? I presume your doubt about this revolves around other big-time players that need to be signed to big-time contracts?

The "should" can be interpreted in (at least) two ways. Are you concerned about his long-term prospects upon receiving a big contract or about the opportunity-cost of signing him to a big contract?

[Brandon494]

Don't worry about Patler, the dude worries too much. The guy thought that Crosby and Kuhn werent going to be resigned last season either evn though I said thu would be locks to be resigned....just like Finley. :)

[Brandon494]

BTW that INT had nothing to do with Finley weighting less, it was a under thrown ball by Rodgers in which the defender just got lucky as shit. Also during the offseason when you where complaining about him coming to camp lighter you were stating how it would hurt his blocking which seems not to be the case at all. He had one game where he struggled against the Giants in his route running, the main thing with Finley this season has been his drops.

[hoosier]

BTW that INT had nothing to do with Finley weighting less, it was a under thrown ball by Rodgers in which the defender just got lucky as shit. Also during the offseason when you where complaining about him coming to camp lighter you were stating how it would hurt his blocking which seems not to be the case at all. He had one game where he struggled against the Giants in his route running, the main thing with Finley this season has been his drops.

Just to be fair, Rodgers wasn't the only one at fault on that end zone INT. Finley needs to become a defensive back and knock it out of the interceptor's hands while they're both going for the ball. Or else be sure there is enough contact that the officials have to call PI. The defender was face guarding him without turning to play the ball; I don't know which is more surprising--that the pass was intercepted or that PI wasn't called.

[MadtownPacker]

BTW that INT had nothing to do with Finley weighting less, it was a under thrown ball by Rodgers in which the defender just got lucky as shit. Also during the offseason when you where complaining about him coming to camp lighter you were stating how it would hurt his blocking which seems not to be the case at all. He had one game where he struggled against the Giants in his route running, the main thing with Finley this season has been his drops.
What if the loss of soft fat tissue on his palms made them hard? :lol:

[MadtownPacker]

Just to be fair, Rodgers wasn't the only one at fault on that end zone INT. Finley needs to become a defensive back and knock it out of the interceptor's hands while they're both going for the ball. Or else be sure there is enough contact that the officials have to call PI. The defender was face guarding him without turning to play the ball; I don't know which is more surprising--that the pass was intercepted or that PI wasn't called.
I think this is fair to say. While 88 wasnt in perfect spot to make the catch he did have his arms tangled up with the DB. I definitely thought he could have done more to defend it.

Regardless, the football Gods now have me believing we are all about to start YOTTOing.

[Patler]

The "can" in this statement revolves around cap space, correct? I presume your doubt about this revolves around other big-time players that need to be signed to big-time contracts?

The "should" can be interpreted in (at least) two ways. Are you concerned about his long-term prospects upon receiving a big contract or about the opportunity-cost of signing him to a big contract?

The "can" is more in terms of whether the team and player can ever agree to terms. Even if the cap space is there, if a player wants to get the top contract for his position, and the team is willing to pay only in the range of the top 4 or 5 contracts, he can't be signed. I have no idea what Finley will expect for terms, but if he wants a record contract, I doubt the Packers would go there. Incidentally, I would not be shocked if Finley found a team willing to pay that to him, but I will be surprised if it is the Packers that agree to a record contract with him. I have no idea what Finley and his agent have in mind, but I could easily see an agent convincing Finley to go for a record contract. The Packers probably can use the franchise tag to leverage them off that position, at least in 2012.

The "can" does not refer to an ability to work a contract into the salary cap. I don't foresee a problem in that for at least a couple years, unless the Packers feel obligated to improve the contracts of some over-performers (Rodgers, Matthews, etc.) I think the Packers are in a decent cap situation, but not one that gives them total flexibility. After all, the Packers found merit in reworking Collins' contract before the start of the season to gain some cap space.

The "should" was applicable only to the long term impact to the salary cap of a top 5 contract for a TE. Even if it is manageable for 2012 or 2013, it will impact what they can do in any other year while it remains in effect. I refer back to Bob Harlan's comments about his own tenure as the Packers contract guy. He said the most difficult concept to accept and practice was that giving in even a little and paying a player more than you should can mushroom into problems later on, both in raising the expectations of players yet to be signed and in restricting the teams ability to sign players in the future even at a cost they thought was fair. It could occur that the Packers and Finley will agree that he deserves to have a contract in the top 3, but the Packers decide they shouldn't do it because there are more important places to spend their money.

Incidentally, I totally agree with the comments made about the value of a TE in the passing game. I disagree that it needs to be a unique TE talent. While there will necessarily be a drop off, I think much of the advantages are there so long as you have a decent TE, with decent speed and decent hands. I also think many undervalue what a good blocking TE brings to an offense, especially if he is consistent. Bubba Franks was never a unique talent as a receiver, but in his younger years he was at least a decent receiver and a real force in the endzone going wherever he wanted to go. It became very predictable, in close throw it to Bubba, but it always seemed to work. As a blocker, for a while he was top notch. I don't remember if it was the OC or one of the assistants who one time remarked about the flexibility Franks gave them, because he was one of the few TEs that could be assigned to block a DE alone and would get the job done all the time.

[mraynrand]

Just to be fair, Rodgers wasn't the only one at fault on that end zone INT. Finley needs to become a defensive back and knock it out of the interceptor's hands while they're both going for the ball. Or else be sure there is enough contact that the officials have to call PI. The defender was face guarding him without turning to play the ball; I don't know which is more surprising--that the pass was intercepted or that PI wasn't called.


That was pretty close to dual possession

[mraynrand]

There are always some that are expiring.

we want you to stick around as long as possible. Don't 'walk'

[gbgary]

Just to be fair, Rodgers wasn't the only one at fault on that end zone INT. Finley needs to become a defensive back and knock it out of the interceptor's hands while they're both going for the ball. Or else be sure there is enough contact that the officials have to call PI. The defender was face guarding him without turning to play the ball; I don't know which is more surprising--that the pass was intercepted or that PI wasn't called.

fin was trying to make a play. reached over and caught the ball off the defender's back. he got it and when he's bringing it in the defender hits it and it falls into the defender's hands. it was a great effort from both. maybe if the pass was higher a better grip on it could have been achieved. game of inches.

[Smidgeon]

Maybe he just needs lasik.

It worked for Javon...

[pbmax]

When Finley screws up a route, misses a block or drops an easily catchable pass, watch Rodgers stare him down when he comes back to the huddle. I have made this a focal point because Rodgers sets the tone and he clearly signals to me, that Finley is working sloppy. And he has said as much in his post games this season, but with the dignity and respect he alway displays. Rodgers is challenging Finley. At the same time, he distributes him the ball, and the opportunities.

I am so convinced of this. And i think TT and M3 will lend their ears to what rodgers has to say about it, despite their policy on recruiting and running the team. Rodgers' football maturity is so obvious that they would be madmen not to take his opinion into consideration.

I wonder what Finley is like with a QB not named Rodgers, Manning, Brees or Brady. Particularly if his route running is as described by KY in that earlier post.

You are on big guy. I will forget watching Newhouse and Sitton/EDS and watch Finley each play and Rogers after each play. Someone (maybe Nutz?) also mentioned that Finley was being redirected by Rodgers a lot this season, as if he didn't know where to line up. I have been meaning to watch that for a while, as I thought Rodgers was just changing the strength of the formation (or a protection adjustment).

I do agree that Finley's lacks Jennings route precision and does not seem to have a Jordy Nelson mind meld with Rodgers. But he can play pitch and catch with his QB better than anyone else on the team. Jones isn't even his equal in competing with DBs for space.

Speaking of Sitton, I hope he sits another week and comes back for the Bears/Lions with another week to rehab.

[pbmax]

KY, even Rodgers has publicly called him out this season for not spending enough time in the study room. I think he relies way too much on his God given gifts still to be the elite TE he SHOULD be. Even in his last interview, Rodgers downgraded Finley's status from "the best TE in the game" (last season) to "one of the best".

I know, I am dissecting straws here, but it occured to me that the Franchise QB expects more. I might be completely off base, but Rodgers chooses his words rather carefully.

Was this in reference to the Bears game?

[Patler]

Don't worry about Patler, the dude worries too much. The guy thought that Crosby and Kuhn werent going to be resigned last season either evn though I said thu would be locks to be resigned....just like Finley. :)

Again you are demonstrating how little you understand my positions.

First, I worry about nothing when it comes to the Packers, because it is only of entertainment interest to me, with no impact on me beyond that. A loss bothers me not one bit after the game is done. My friends who are Bears fans could never understand why they couldn't goad me when Lovie Smith seemed to have the Packers number. It really does not bother me if they win or lose. I am one of the few who wasn't bummed out in the '70s and '80s, because I found the performances of many individual players to be entertaining even when the losses mounted. Individually, I care little about who they keep or who they let sign elsewhere, because the individual players mean nothing to me. I don't know them. The few NFL players I have dealt with have all been after their playing days were done. (Its is different for me with NHL players, many of which I have known personally.) Besides, as many on here will attest, I enjoy the off season maneuvering as much as the on-field play. I certainly don't worry about any one off-season act, because they are all inter-related, and each one alone has little meaning until the final roster is set. Even that is not static.

I doubt that is me that you are referring to in your comment above. I don't recall ever thinking the Packers would let Crosby get away, although I may have mentioned that when a player hits free agency you run the risk of someone offering an absurd contract and losing the guy. That is sort of what happened with Rivera. I have never waivered in my belief that Crosby was a talented kicker worth hanging on to, even when many on here seemed in favor of letting him go. Unlike other skilled positions where you can compensate by scheming, there is no compensation for a bad kicker or punter, so when you have good ones you should keep them.

As for Kuhn, I always felt the packers should keep him as their FB because of his versatility, and I predicted they would let Hall go because he was limited to blocking and STs, but more importantly never seemed to play more than about 12 games a year because of injuries. Availability counts for a lot for marginal, nonimpact players. Again, once Kuhn hit free agency there was risk, because some teams go nuts for Super Bowl winners' players, but that never materialized this year. Had it been a normal year for free agency, Kuhn and Jones could very well have been playing elsewhere.

I have always enjoyed the transitory nature of NFL rosters.

[George Cumby]

The "can" is more in terms of whether the team and player can ever agree to terms. Even if the cap space is there, if a player wants to get the top contract for his position, and the team is willing to pay only in the range of the top 4 or 5 contracts, he can't be signed. I have no idea what Finley will expect for terms, but if he wants a record contract, I doubt the Packers would go there. Incidentally, I would not be shocked if Finley found a team willing to pay that to him, but I will be surprised if it is the Packers that agree to a record contract with him. I have no idea what Finley and his agent have in mind, but I could easily see an agent convincing Finley to go for a record contract. The Packers probably can use the franchise tag to leverage them off that position, at least in 2012.

The "can" does not refer to an ability to work a contract into the salary cap. I don't foresee a problem in that for at least a couple years, unless the Packers feel obligated to improve the contracts of some over-performers (Rodgers, Matthews, etc.) I think the Packers are in a decent cap situation, but not one that gives them total flexibility. After all, the Packers found merit in reworking Collins' contract before the start of the season to gain some cap space.

The "should" was applicable only to the long term impact to the salary cap of a top 5 contract for a TE. Even if it is manageable for 2012 or 2013, it will impact what they can do in any other year while it remains in effect. I refer back to Bob Harlan's comments about his own tenure as the Packers contract guy. He said the most difficult concept to accept and practice was that giving in even a little and paying a player more than you should can mushroom into problems later on, both in raising the expectations of players yet to be signed and in restricting the teams ability to sign players in the future even at a cost they thought was fair. It could occur that the Packers and Finley will agree that he deserves to have a contract in the top 3, but the Packers decide they shouldn't do it because there are more important places to spend their money.

Incidentally, I totally agree with the comments made about the value of a TE in the passing game. I disagree that it needs to be a unique TE talent. While there will necessarily be a drop off, I think much of the advantages are there so long as you have a decent TE, with decent speed and decent hands. I also think many undervalue what a good blocking TE brings to an offense, especially if he is consistent. Bubba Franks was never a unique talent as a receiver, but in his younger years he was at least a decent receiver and a real force in the endzone going wherever he wanted to go. It became very predictable, in close throw it to Bubba, but it always seemed to work. As a blocker, for a while he was top notch. I don't remember if it was the OC or one of the assistants who one time remarked about the flexibility Franks gave them, because he was one of the few TEs that could be assigned to block a DE alone and would get the job done all the time.

Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to clarify and expound on your position.

[pbmax]

Two other questions while I am at it:

1. Are ANY Packer contracts in the Top 5 at the position? Collins? Woodson maybe? Sitton was close but definitely outside the top 2 (Mankins and Evans I think). I am not sure Rodgers was at any time, he just eclipsed Romo when he signed. Jennings was high at the time but was quickly surpassed.

2. I actually don't like Rodger's throws on jump balls in the endzone, which is odd because he excels at a harder throw of dropping a ball into the middle of the field between LBs and safeties. He has one throw I like that is aimed at the sideline in the endzone. Jones, Driver and Nelson have done well with those.

But the jump ball never seems to go to the same spot as if he is adjusting on a per play basis. The best I have seen at this, Brian Sipe (completely underrated) and Dave Logan (6'4" former basketballer) always ran that route to the end pylon and Sipe simply sent the ball way into the air to that pylon like a basketball shot and it was Logan's job to get there and make the jump for it like an alley oop. Thrown like that, it was Logan's job to choose when to make a play on the ball as the DB was shadowing him and not watching the ball. If they put that DB in a zone it might be tougher, but Logan still had the advantage. They also had a version that was like a comeback where Logan would make for the pylon then pivot head to the center of the endzone along the backline and the ball would be there.

I think a jump ball thrown differently turn by turn is harder to throw well and it leads to closer coverage. Throw it to a spot and let the big guy out physical the DB to get it. The way that play developed, it was like Finley was not sure where the ball would be in relation to the DB or sideline.

[Patler]

BTW that INT had nothing to do with Finley weighting less, it was a under thrown ball by Rodgers in which the defender just got lucky as shit. Also during the offseason when you where complaining about him coming to camp lighter you were stating how it would hurt his blocking which seems not to be the case at all. He had one game where he struggled against the Giants in his route running, the main thing with Finley this season has been his drops.

I disagree. Finley needed to establish a better physical position on the interception. Basically, he allowed Mitchell to push him deeper. Even so, he still had the chance to catch the ball above the defender; he never did so. He never got two hands on the ball, but should have been able to. The Slo-mo video at NFL.com shows that pretty clearly.

In fairness to Finley, I think two penalties could have been called on Mitchell. First, there was pass interference (although slight) because Mitchell had his hands on Finley through out the play, even as the ball arrived and I believe Mitchell forced Finley a bit deeper because of it (even as Finley was in the air). The more blatant penalty was face guarding. With his back to the ball, Mitchell went up with his hands in front of Finley's face mask, but his hands did come down.

But all in all, It was not a very physical effort on Finley's part.

Finley has had isolated good blocks, but overall his blocking still leaves a lot to be desired.

I think this year he has played more like a big WR and less like a TE. He gets knocked off his routes more often than what we saw the beginning of last year, but maybe its because other teams have learned a little about what works and what doesn't.

I was never as concerned about the actual fact of his losing weight as I was with his motivation for doing it in spite of his own belief that the coaches wouldn't like it.

[pbmax]

I am almost sure face guarding is no longer a penalty.

[Patler]

Two other questions while I am at it:

1. Are ANY Packer contracts in the Top 5 at the position? Collins? Woodson maybe? Sitton was close but definitely outside the top 2 (Mankins and Evans I think). I am not sure Rodgers was at any time, he just eclipsed Romo when he signed. Jennings was high at the time but was quickly surpassed.

I think Collins was at the time he signed it.

Sitton reportedly signed a six-year contract with a $6 M. signing bonus and $26.15 M paid in the first 3 years. The six year total is reportedly for $34.95 M ($5.825M/season), so the cash outlay the last 3 seasons is relatively low.

Supposedly, Mankins got a signing bonus of $20 M. with $30.5 M the first three years and $52.25 M. over six years. Sitton looks cheap in comparison.

Jari Evans is reported to have signed for $19M in the first year, $25.7 M the first 3 years, and $56.7M for seven years. Sitton looks cheap in comparison to this contract, too.


I'm not sure what other guards got big contracts recently to look at for comparison.

[mraynrand]

I am almost sure face guarding is no longer a penalty.

There is contact and no contact. Contact is the only thing that can draw a penalty, and it doesn't draw a penalty if you're playing the ball and not overtly impeding the ability of the receiver to catch the ball (you can be playing the ball and still interfere, it just has to be more obvious). Finley was being interfered with because the defender made contact without playing the ball.

[Patler]

I am almost sure face guarding is no longer a penalty.

Really? I quess I missed that one, if you are correct.

[jdrats]

Really? I quess I missed that one, if you are correct.

He is correct. Face guarding has been gone for quite a while.

[Tarlam!]

Was this in reference to the Bears game?

It may have been. It was early in the season and I don't recall all the details. just the wry Rodgers smile and the very clear expectation that Fin needs to study more film.

But the biggest indication is what he said after the SB "getting the best TE back" and his latest offering "one of the best TEs". Rodgers is as consistant at the podium as he is on the paddock. At least my interpretation is that Rodgers is sending Fin messages and they are now becoming public. I#d eat my Stock if he wasn't urging him on behind closed doors.

Keep watching the plays the way you have been PB, but watch the stare down when #88 goes back to the huddle after doing something "wrong" even on a successful play. It is noticable.

[pbmax]

It may have been. It was early in the season and I don't recall all the details. just the wry Rodgers smile and the very clear expectation that Fin needs to study more film.

But the biggest indication is what he said after the SB "getting the best TE back" and his latest offering "one of the best TEs". Rodgers is as consistant at the podium as he is on the paddock. At least my interpretation is that Rodgers is sending Fin messages and they are now becoming public. I#d eat my Stock if he wasn't urging him on behind closed doors.

Keep watching the plays the way you have been PB, but watch the stare down when #88 goes back to the huddle after doing something "wrong" even on a successful play. It is noticable.

Yes, after the Bears game he (Rodgers) mentioned some players needed more focus, but I am not sure that translates to more film study. Finley fessed up after that that Rodgers was referring, at least in part, to him. In fact, I think there is a Nutz thread about it.

And I would not doubt that if Rodgers has switched from best TE in the game to one of the bests, it could be a message. But remember, Rodgers was calling Finley that after he was injured, as in, look what we are doing after losing such a great player. So the slightly different message might be serving different purposes in each year.

One thing that I think is getting overlooked is that whatever offseason everyone else had working on their games, Finley had rehab. And with an ACL surgery (plus 2 more surgeries to clean infections) taking a minimum 9 months to completely return from, Finley did not get to work much on his game this year. If at all. So rust in camp was to be expected and some of that has carried over to the season. But I think its clear his QB still believes in him.

And that route that he ran wrong for Rodgers? He still turned in a TD with some nifty footwork from his QB.

[pbmax]

Finley has his QB's back.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/16/jermichael-finley-calls-tebow-coverage-kind-of-disturbing/

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135758103.html

But in inimitable Finley style, he did it by calling out Tebow worship. I love where his heart is, but you would think he would get tired of the taste of his shoe. :lol:

[Brandon494]

I mean he is right.

[mraynrand]

The Tebow stuff is way over the top. I just hope they get his mom to voice over that "My Timmie, our Tebow" Brocos fans should have to suffer the same ultimate nausea that Packer fans suffered:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWbNgIc2TVM


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_x8A7Iz4rjIo/TFv4lCeCrBI/AAAAAAAAAD8/qBwJu8f0j9M/s1600/vomit.jpg

[Tony Oday]

We want to fly under the radar! Shut it JF. Though I am guessing he gets 5 tds in the playoffs.

[mission]

The Tebow stuff is way over the top. I just hope they get his mom to voice over that "My Timmie, our Tebow" Brocos fans should have to suffer the same ultimate nausea that Packer fans suffered:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWbNgIc2TVM


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_x8A7Iz4rjIo/TFv4lCeCrBI/AAAAAAAAAD8/qBwJu8f0j9M/s1600/vomit.jpg

it doesnt get much worse than that... "legends write their own stories" ... jeeesus, legends dont have their wives calling them legends

[ND72]

Hate to say told ya so, but the KC game is showcasing Finleys talent first hand. He average, and is making me look smart.

[Bretsky]

For what it's worth AJ Hawk is looking like Junk too; as much as I once liked him I'm about ready to switch camps

[MadtownPacker]

Youre both of average intelligence but Finley is physically more talented than we are being shown.

[Bretsky]

Youre both of average intelligence but Finley is physically more talented than we are being shown.


I'm less than average; it's my personality and abilty to charm that gets me ahead :)

[ND72]

I may be of average intelligence, but I can catch a football. Put Taylor and Williams in and see what they can do, Finley can sit.

[Brando19]

For what it's worth AJ Hawk is looking like Junk too; as much as I once liked him I'm about ready to switch camps

Agreed. Hawk hasn't done anything to impress me most of the season and Finley is declining ALOT! He's not worth the huge contract he's after.

[MadtownPacker]

I may be of average intelligence, but I can catch a football. Put Taylor and Williams in and see what they can do, Finley can sit.
You catch it good for a White guy but thats only because your opponents take you lightly. :lol:

[channtheman]

Francois is better than Hawk, and Finley is just garbage.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm less than average; it's my personality and abilty to charm that gets me ahead :)

no, I'm sure it must be intelligence, a sort of cunning.

[mission]

AJ Hawk is absolutely horrible.

ND shows up finally in the thread after Finley has a bad first half. Awfully nice to see ya!

[pbmax]

He looks like a mess out there. Two of his targets would have been brutally hard to make, but he whiffed on two easy ones as well. He looks like a goalie who is fighting the puck rather than catching or collecting it.

At this point I am convinced an entire offseason of rehab has cost him his normal work on routes and securing the ball. Or he has gone cross-eyed. He was never the smoothest with the ball, but its just a catastrophe out there now. I am sure his confidence is low.

In McCarthy's system, you make a mental mistake you come out, so Taylor and Williams could get a call. But if they decide its physical, he probably stays out there. I doubt its helping Rodgers.

[Deputy Nutz]

I may be of average intelligence, but I can catch a football. Put Taylor and Williams in and see what they can do, Finley can sit.

Second half Finley carried the offense. He has talent that can't be denied and if you want to throw a guy under the bus because of a few drops, but not care to mention the plays he makes that very few others can make then I think you are nearsighted.

[pbmax]

Second half Finley carried the offense. He has talent that can't be denied and if you want to throw a guy under the bus because of a few drops, but not care to mention the plays he makes that very few others can make then I think you are nearsighted.

How many catches did he have in the second half? I remember 2. One for a first down and one to get close for the TD.

[pbmax]

How many catches did he have in the second half? I remember 2. One for a first down and one to get close for the TD.

6 targets in second half with 3 catches for 83 yards, long of 41. All of his catches for the game were in the 2nd half.

[mission]

6 targets in second half with 3 catches for 83 yards, long of 41. All of his catches for the game were in the 2nd half.

They were important plays on touchdown drives(s?). He makes those catches in the first half and they would have been key plays on touchdown drives too. This offense relies on everyone doing their job and it didn't happen there so we stalled. It's obvious he has a hurdle to clear ... needs to quit hearing about it on twitter and just get off, focus on football.

Trust me I was swearing at the TV/Finley as much as anyone, but at no time was I hoping to see him benched.

[gbgary]

i'm done with this dumb thread.

[pbmax]

After reading everything, I just can't see a better choice other than staying with him and riding it out. He has to play himself out of the slump. I hope Rodgers keeps chucking it to him; I am not sure he has any choice.

[Tarlam!]

The guy was not the only culprit today, but, those 1st half drops were infuriating and came at very inopportune moments.