If the Packers went 19-0 and Rodgers never played another game [Archive]

RashanGary

12-14-2011, 11:30 PM

Would he go to the HOF based on 19-0, three years of dominance, two superbowl victories, an MVP and at least one SB MVP?

Or is it a must that you put in 10 years of football?

The kind of guy he is (people would want to vote him in. Plus, him not playing would mean there was some sort of bad injury, again people would want to give him a shot)
19-0 (the memory would stick in voters heads forever)
Best QB in football for at least one year (dominance)
High profile coming out of college. High profile following HOF QB. High profile, dominating.

I don't know. . . . . As much as he's only had a few years, he's edging close to doing some things no QB has ever done. He'd be on that edge I think . . . .

Joemailman

12-14-2011, 11:35 PM

I don't think that 4 years, with 1 year as the best QB in the NFL, would be enough. I don't know if you need 10 years, but you need more than 4.

Tarlam!

12-14-2011, 11:36 PM

Would he go to the HOF based on 19-0, three years of dominance, two superbowl victories, an MVP and at least one SB MVP?

No.

Or is it a must that you put in 10 years of football?

Yes. He would not even get nominated. He has prolly already earned a place in the Packers HOF, though, just for how he handled the tranistion.

pbmax

12-14-2011, 11:41 PM

No chance. Too short a time. And Bob Griese won one MVP award in 1971, another in 1977 ( I think there were several this year) though no Super Bowl MVP, and was part of an undefeated season. It took Bob a decade to get in to the HOF.

While Rodgers achievements would look good, the fact that the most direct parallel is Griese, is not going to help.

HarveyWallbangers

12-15-2011, 12:50 AM

He needs a few more years. You don't need the longevity that you need in baseball, but I'd say you need a good 7 year run or so.

mraynrand

12-15-2011, 04:38 AM

Rodgers must confront Brady, only then a HOFer will he be.

sheepshead

12-15-2011, 05:12 AM

Some say Kurt Warner will have a hard time getting in. Some perspective.

bobblehead

12-15-2011, 05:50 AM

Some say Kurt Warner will have a hard time getting in. Some perspective.

If Kurt were a first round pick and college stud there would be no such discussion whatsoever. His road to dominance is being held against him.

Seriously, MVP's, superbowl titles with multiple teams. What does a guy have to do....oh yea, be picked in the first round and not bag groceries.

Joemailman

12-15-2011, 06:49 AM

If Kurt were a first round pick and college stud there would be no such discussion whatsoever. His road to dominance is being held against him.

Seriously, MVP's, superbowl titles with multiple teams. What does a guy have to do....oh yea, be picked in the first round and not bag groceries.

Completely disagree. Warner's Rags to riches (twice) story helps him. His problem is that during half of his career, he wasn't even a full time starter. He had 6 very good seasons. Rags to riches stories are great, but Warner may have spent too much time wearing rags to be considered a Hall Of Famer.

Iron Mike

12-15-2011, 08:12 AM

Some say Kurt Warner will have a hard time getting in. Some perspective.

Here's some perspective for you:

http://aimlessfury.com/pics/brenda_warner_Before_After.jpg

HarveyWallbangers

12-15-2011, 08:12 AM

Warner won't be a first ballot Hall of Famer, but I think he'll get in eventually.

Guiness

12-15-2011, 08:49 AM

Completely disagree. Warner's Rags to riches (twice) story helps him. His problem is that during half of his career, he wasn't even a full time starter. He had 6 very good seasons. Rags to riches stories are great, but Warner may have spent too much time wearing rags to be considered a Hall Of Famer.

He had some down time in the middle. After he was hurt in St-Louis and replaced by Bulger, he was a lame duck QB to Eli in NYG. He got off to a bad start in Arizona, and was replaced by Josh McCown(!) then became a lame duck again, this time going back and forth with Leinart for 2 seasons.

That's why he won't be viewed well. For whatever reasons, injuries, situation, etc he was not a starter for periods of his career. He was replaced 3-4 times (Bulger, Eli, McCown and Leinart all took his starting job from him at one point or another. The voters won't like that.

MadScientist

12-15-2011, 09:27 AM

Remember it is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Really Good for a Couple of Seasons.

How well does Warner compare to Brady, Manning, Marino, Starr, etc. I don't think he belongs with that group at all, so he should not be in the Hall. If Rodgers finish off a perfect season and then retires, he doesn't belong with that group.

sharpe1027

12-15-2011, 09:45 AM

Rodgers must confront Brady, only then a HOFer will he be.

Reverse talk. Yoda, is that you? Is Brady secretly Rodger's father?

Deputy Nutz

12-15-2011, 10:37 AM

Warner had several great seasons, but not a great career. He didn't do it consistently enough for me to elect him into the hall.

Little Whiskey

12-15-2011, 10:43 AM

the real question is, if Tebow never plays another game will he still be elected to the HOF. ESPN would say "YES!"

George Cumby

12-15-2011, 11:02 AM

Modern Era QB's (From http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspx):

Troy Aikman 1989-2000
George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
John Elway 1983-1998
Dan Fouts 1973-1987
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Jim Kelly 1986-1996
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Dan Marino 1983-1999
Joe Montana 1979-1994
Warren Moon 1984-2000
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
Steve Young 1985-1999

The commonality above seems to be long-term excellence, but there's no hard criteria for induction that I found in my cursory search.

gbgary

12-15-2011, 11:55 AM

Cheesehead Craig

12-15-2011, 11:57 AM

If Rodgers never played another game after this season I'd be pissed.

Upnorth

12-15-2011, 12:49 PM

Short term dominance and a sb mvp, how is terrel davis these days?

Personally I hope rodgers plays many more years and never attends a probowl!

Smidgeon

12-15-2011, 01:09 PM

not a qb but gale sayers only played six years. unless they've changed some rule there must not be a career length standard.

with all his other achievements...i believe the answer to jh's question would be yes.

Wasn't there an ancient era QB who only had four or so seasons who's in the NFL HOF? I seem to remember something like that tickling my memory, but I can't figure it out.

Tarlam!

12-15-2011, 01:25 PM

Reverse talk. Yoda, is that you? Is Brady secretly Rodger's father?

Beat me to it sharpie! My exact thought when I read Rand's post! Hahahaha

Tarlam!

12-15-2011, 01:46 PM

Someone enlighten me why LeRoy Butler is not in Canton? I never saw him play, obviously, but he is the measuring stick for Safeties in GB. IIRC, he was miffed they gave Collins the 36, fully expecting the Club to retire it.

I checked his Wiki Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeRoy_Butler

He had 10-11 seasons with the club. 180 odd games. In my book, he should get in for creating the world famous Lambeau Leap!! What am I missing?

King Friday

12-15-2011, 01:49 PM

I would think that a QB needs to play for roughly 10 years at a high level to have a realistic shot at the HOF these days.

HarveyWallbangers

12-15-2011, 03:16 PM

HarveyWallbangers

12-15-2011, 03:17 PM

Aikman had around 7 good years also. He was terrible his first few years.

smuggler

12-15-2011, 03:34 PM

In the above scenario, Rodgers would get in if he died in a tragedy. But he would not get in if he just retired because he got bored with the game.

Smidgeon

12-15-2011, 05:43 PM

Wasn't there an ancient era QB who only had four or so seasons who's in the NFL HOF? I seem to remember something like that tickling my memory, but I can't figure it out.

In the above scenario, Rodgers would get in if he died in a tragedy. But he would not get in if he just retired because he got bored with the game.

Seriously, isn't there a QB in the hall of fame that fits this?

pbmax

12-15-2011, 06:25 PM

Steve Young had 7 good years. His teams made it to one Super Bowl. If Rodgers put up the numbers he has been for another three years (assuming two Super Bowl titles and an undefeated season), I think he'd be in.

Aikman is tougher to argue objectively, but Young was arguable the best QB in the game for 4-5 of those years. 2 years (92 and 94) he was MVP, though this was in the era of every American Legion Hall handing out their own MVP. If Rodgers were to be as dominant from 2010-2014, I can see this.

Aikman is in because everyone presumed he could do anything he wished with his physical gifts (luxury of a high round pick) and just happened to play for a run first team. Plus 3 Super Bowl wins. 3 Super Bowl wins is even harder to come by now.

RashanGary

12-15-2011, 06:55 PM

19-0 and a league MVP and I think he'll be inching in on it. 4 years sounds really bad though. 5 and a tragedy and he's right on that fence.

Tarlam!

12-15-2011, 09:14 PM

19-0 and a league MVP and I think he'll be inching in on it. 4 years sounds really bad though. 5 and a tragedy and he's right on that fence.

Gotta get me some of that cool aide man.

What was so outstanding about his first btwo starting seasons? The first one sucked dogs balls. The second one he was mobbed and, despite it being an obvious penalty, he was accredited with the fumble that lost the game. Then, 19 games ago, the team went on a run.

I am a HUGE Rodgers fan. But Canton is reserved for the entire body of work. Even if they run the gauntlet this year, he won't even get a nomination unless he puts up some more serious years. Forget the first two. They were garbage. Forget the first half of last year. it was garbage. So right now, he has one and a half years of MVP play, even though many will come back and say his stats etc last two year were off the wall. Stats don't win championships.

Right now, he's in an elite discussion, but he is not even painting the fence let alone sitting on it.

George Cumby

12-15-2011, 09:18 PM

Can we stop talking about some tragedy befalling our beloved QB? It's making me feel a little uncomfortable.

Like there's a Mark David Chapman out there or something....

Tarlam!

12-15-2011, 09:22 PM

Can we stop talking about some tragedy befalling our beloved QB? It's making me feel a little uncomfortable.

Like there's a Mark David Chapman out there or something....

You're absolutely right George. My only point is, he has done no where near enough to warrant even being nominated, let alone elected. He needs a bigger body of work to be considered. And I LOVE the guy. But 2 great seasons does not a HOFer make.

George Cumby

12-15-2011, 09:24 PM

You're absolutely right George. My only point is, he has done no where near enough to warrant even being nominated, let alone elected. He needs a bigger body of work to be considered. And I LOVE the guy. But 2 great seasons does not a HOFer make.

Concur.

Smidgeon

12-16-2011, 10:14 AM

Gotta get me some of that cool aide man.

What was so outstanding about his first btwo starting seasons? The first one sucked dogs balls. The second one he was mobbed and, despite it being an obvious penalty, he was accredited with the fumble that lost the game. Then, 19 games ago, the team went on a run.

I am a HUGE Rodgers fan. But Canton is reserved for the entire body of work. Even if they run the gauntlet this year, he won't even get a nomination unless he puts up some more serious years. Forget the first two. They were garbage. Forget the first half of last year. it was garbage. So right now, he has one and a half years of MVP play, even though many will come back and say his stats etc last two year were off the wall. Stats don't win championships.

Right now, he's in an elite discussion, but he is not even painting the fence let alone sitting on it.

What was so outstanding about his first two years was purely statistics. He didn't have a defense his first year and didn't have an o-line his second. But it doesn't mean he wasn't playing well. He just wasn't other-worldly yet.

Tarlam!

12-16-2011, 01:12 PM

What was so outstanding about his first two years was purely statistics. He didn't have a defense his first year and didn't have an o-line his second. But it doesn't mean he wasn't playing well. He just wasn't other-worldly yet.

Quite right! And we fans all felt the transition was warrated based on his play, even after the first season. We all felt the kid would be "other-worldly" one day. I remember feeling great about him. But, he was not yet able to put the team on his back, or at least the offense. Today he is. Realistically, that ability is relatively new, maybe half his career as a starter at best.

That ability, plus the inevitable records will get him a mention, sure. But to get into Canton, he needs to do it for years and years. I the SB MVP has him in at 1265 already, though, but not in the ring of fame yet.

Smidgeon

12-16-2011, 01:33 PM

Nevermind

Upnorth

12-16-2011, 01:34 PM

Quite right! And we fans all felt the transition was warrated based on his play, even after the first season. We all felt the kid would be "other-worldly" one day. I remember feeling great about him. But, he was not yet able to put the team on his back, or at least the offense. Today he is. Realistically, that ability is relatively new, maybe half his career as a starter at best.

That ability, plus the inevitable records will get him a mention, sure. But to get into Canton, he needs to do it for years and years. I the SB MVP has him in at 1265 already, though, but not in the ring of fame yet.

I thought he would be great half way through his first year, but I never guessed he would play like this.

sheepshead

12-16-2011, 02:01 PM

Gayle Sayers comes to mind during this discussion, he only played in four full seasons a partial season after that I believe.

Bossman641

12-16-2011, 03:40 PM

Can we stop talking about some tragedy befalling our beloved QB? It's making me feel a little uncomfortable.

X 1,000,000

King Friday

12-16-2011, 03:48 PM

Gayle Sayers comes to mind during this discussion, he only played in four full seasons a partial season after that I believe.

But that example simply will not happen today. The league isn't made up of 12-20 teams anymore. With 32 starters in the league each year at every position, you can't play for only 4-5 years and make the HOF anymore IMO. There are just too many other players out there who will eventually contribute more to the game over the course of a longer career.

Besides, in looking at the QBs I feel the trend is that FEWER QBs will get in going forward than historically have reached Canton. The 60s-70s saw a lot of QBs make the HOF. I think this probably resulted from the fact that there were a lot of very good QBs, but few truly great ones. Teams were also more dependent on the running games, so QBs weren't quite as important to a team's offensive prowess as compared to today...making it harder to quantify who was greater at the position. Since Montana/Walsh revolutionized the QB position and offensive passing attack, the number of QBs getting into the HOF seems to have waned.

11 QBs earned their ticket to Canton who played primarily during a 20 year stretch from 1960-1980. In the 30 years since, we've only seen 10 QBs reach the HOF or earn bona-fide HOF credentials prior to reaching the ballot. 10 more years, 1 fewer QB. I expect that trend to continue since elite QBs can really establish themselves as such under the modern offensive rule structure favoring offenses.

1960-1970
Blanda
Bradshaw
Dawson
Fouts
Griese
Jurgensen
Namath
Starr
Staubach
Tarkenton
Unitas

1980-2010 (7 in, 3 will get in)
Aikman
Elway
Kelly
Marino
Montana
Moon
Young
(Favre)
(Manning)
(Brady)

pbmax

12-16-2011, 10:15 PM

One HOF QB Might give Justin some ammunition on this topic:

Joe Montana: I never had a season as good as Aaron Rodgers (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/16/joe-montana-i-never-had-a-season-as-good-as-aaron-rodgers/)

“The one he’s having right now is pretty phenomenal,” Montana said of Rodgers’ season. “I’m not sure I had one like that.”

He wasn't quite as effusive as the headline suggests, but it was clear he thought it was extraordinary.