Are we using the wrong people on the D-line?

[red]

i just had this thought hit me.

are our d-linemen too fat?

usually in a 3-4 you have the one giant mound in the middle that no one can move. then for de's you have big DE's or smaller DT's (290-310) guys who are big, but can still move and rush.

we're pretty much using 3 NT's along the line. 3 guys, who aren't suppose to move

you're not gonna get any pass rush out of 3 guys pushing 350

i'm thinking that even though picket is a good player, and raji can be a beast, we would be better off sliming down a bit on the line. almost all our d-lineman are big fat guys not made for moving

i think after this season we should take a look at finding some smaller guys (290ish) and moving BJ back to NT

mke neal is the perfect size i'm thinking about. get another like him and hope mike can get and stay healthy

[Lurker64]

I think we just need to say "thank you and goodbye" to Howard Green, and draft at least 2 defensive lineman and 1 outside linebacker in the first four or five rounds. We just need guys with upside, which does not describe C.J. Wilson or Jarius Wynn.

We might even want to sign a free agent. I wonder if Calais Campbell can be lured away from Arizona (savvy users of the search function or people with eidetic memories may recall that I wanted to draft him way back when.)

[Tarlam!]

Lurker mention Wynn - I forgot he's even on the roster. Wynn is such a disappointment, since he was the first guy TT ever traded up to go get, IIRC. Must be a heck of a STer.

Jenkins was listed as 305, so maybe you are onto something, Red. I like having Picket and Raji on the line, but 3 x 350 plus maybe overkill. I think TT was betting on Neal.

I also read, and you're all gonna hate this, that the pad level was too high (See Ask Vic @ Packers.com), which might explain a lot. Hey, do not shoot the messenger.

[Lurker64]

Lurker mention Wynn - I forgot he's even on the roster. Wynn is such a disappointment, since he was the first guy TT ever traded up to go get, IIRC. Must be a heck of a STer.

I think you're confused. The first player TT traded up to get was Jeremy Thompson, who had to retire due to spinal stenosis (but was disappointing before then). Jarius Wynn was selected with our natural pick (#182) in 2009.

IIRC, the second player that TT drafted up to trade was Clay Matthews, and the third was Morgan Burnett.

But specifically Capers likes to have an NT-type DE on the left side of the line (the side that teams like to run at) and a smaller DE on the right side as a pass rusher, so having a guy like Pickett playing to the left of Raji is fine, the problem we have is that the right side of the defense is completely incapable of getting after the passer.

[RashanGary]

We're a pretty good team. I don't know why a solid DE wouldn't want to play here, especially a midwest guy.

I think we need a legitimate FS though. Burnett seems like a SS to me. Peprah too, but he's a complete JAG. He looks alright when you have the fastest secondary in the league around him (shields, Williams, Collins) and woodson roving. When you don't have the best FS in the league, Peprah is a pile of shit.

[Tarlam!]

I think you're confused. The first player TT traded up to get was Jeremy Thompson, who had to retire due to spinal stenosis (but was disappointing before then). Jarius Wynn was selected with our natural pick (#182) in 2009.

IIRC, the second player that TT drafted up to trade was Clay Matthews, and the third was Morgan Burnett.

Of course, you're right. I was, indeed, thinking of Thompson. Thanks, Lurker.

[Freak Out]

All I know is the offense better be scoring every time they have the ball come playoff time.

[Fritz]

I hoped that Neal would work his way back in and knock the rust off to show us the kind of production we saw glimpses of earlier in his very brief career. I don't know if his shoulder is limiting him (he hints at this) but he quite sucked the last couple games. Maybe rest him for the next two weeks so he's ready for the playoffs?

I think Packer world will go ballistic if TT doesn't draft at least one OLB and one d-linemen prior to the fifth round this year.

[LEWCWA]

I think they were counting on Raji to get more pressure up the middle and demand double teams. He just isn't having a great year after breaking out at the end of last season. also Walden doesn't scare anybody on the other side of Mathews......Neal stepping up would really free up Mathews as well.

[Brandon494]

Short answer yes and that's point of the reason why our pass rush sucks. Guys like Jenkins, Dockett, and Aaron Smith are the type of guys you want playing DE. I actually liked it better when Pickett played NT and Raji was at DE. Thankfully we are set at offense so the upcoming draft should be mainly focused on defense and I trust Ted to find another playmaker for us.

[Pugger]

It hurt not having Pickett in there the past couple of games so let's hope he is back this week and in the playoffs to help shore up the run D.

[pbmax]

Not having Pickett has definitely made a questionable run defense worse. Jenkins wasn't counted on by this staff or the Eagles to be a starter at DE (or DT in Philly). He is a situational guy even if his body type is almost ideal at 3-4 DE. 2009 was his last year as a nominal starter.

I do not think Raji is a 2 gapping NT yet. He is not immovable like Pickett and gets turned WAY too much.

Pickett at end makes most sense when Capers reduces his front to a 4-3 look, so that Pickett lines up almost as a DT in a 4-3. But in either spot, there is little push versus the pass there.

[mraynrand]

Brandon and PB, I agree with what you're writing. I just wonder if they won't let Raji loose in the playoffs to push upfield as often as possible. Play to his strengths, generate some pass rush, be disruptive. Two-gapping neutralizes Raji right off the snap. Same with Bishop, since he is the second best pass rusher, though I don't know who will cover in the secondary. Perhaps pair Bishop with Francois on obvious passing downs?

[pbmax]

Brandon and PB, I agree with what you're writing. I just wonder if they won't let Raji loose in the playoffs to push upfield as often as possible. Play to his strengths, generate some pass rush, be disruptive. Two-gapping neutralizes Raji right off the snap. Same with Bishop, since he is the second best pass rusher, though I don't know who will cover in the secondary. Perhaps pair Bishop with Francois on obvious passing downs?

On pass rush, I agree. But when its a run, he is getting neutralized and moved. He does manage to occupy two and not let the 2nd guy get an LB, but he is out of the hole/gap way too often.

[Smeefers]

I can't believe how much we miss Jenkins. With him in the line up, our sub par outside linebacker opposite of Clay would actually do a decent job. Not so much anymore. As for Mike Neal, I'm just about ready to throw him in the bust pile.

[pbmax]

I can't believe how much we miss Jenkins. With him in the line up, our sub par outside linebacker opposite of Clay would actually do a decent job. Not so much anymore. As for Mike Neal, I'm just about ready to throw him in the bust pile.

The OLB has fallen on his face in run defense and that was not Jenkins influenced on most downs. But in the nickel and Psycho, he did make a difference part time. Part of this goes back to Matthews, though. Most of his sacks come of stunts and not one on one versus the OT. So the defensive pass rush, as currently constituted, isn't helping him.

[Pugger]

I still find it incredible that TT didn't even talk to Jenkins' agent (at least that's what I heard), especially after it became clear he wasn't going to demand the coin he had hoped for. I too suspect TT, MM and Capers believed we could get just as much production from Wilson, Green and Neal. After Neal was injured we had to add Wynn. This bunch just isn't getting it done and it is killing us in the secondary. :-(

[Smeefers]

You knew they were betting the bank on Neal when MM rushed over to check on him when he got hurt in training camp.

[Fritz]

I'm not so sure it's as simple as missing Jenkins. After his hot start, he hasn't played all that well in the last 2/3 of the season.

[Lurker64]

I'm not so sure it's as simple as missing Jenkins. After his hot start, he hasn't played all that well in the last 2/3 of the season.

It's not just "missing Jenkins" it's also the matter that both Walden and Zombo have regressed. After last year, you could have had a reasonable expectation that one of the two would take a step forward, but both seem to have taken multiple steps back. It's sort of like when the Packers expected Brad Jones to improve after his pretty good rookie year, and then he turned invisible.

[pbmax]

Well Zombo has been injured and might have regressed, Walden simply has not gotten any better. And since the Packers do not feature him in the defense versus the Bears that KYP described, it doesn't seem likely there will be an uptick this year.

One thing to mention is the nickel package itself. It is amazing it survived last year given the team was using it nearly 70% of the time. Teams could run on it then, but usually didn't gash it horribly and the Packers (esp. later in the season) simply outscored teams and forced them to abandon the attack. Clearly, teams have gone to school on how to beat it with the run. Add that to a missing Collins and there are a few new holes. Teams are also now willing to run more simply to keep Rodgers off the field and decrease the number of possessions for the Packers.

So, in some ways, the nickel is a victim of its own success, Jenkins or no. I have not seen numbers recently, but I would bet there has been far less nickel. Quite often when I remember to watch, the Packers have 3 lineman in for traditional run downs. They aren't in base as much as the Steelers, but it more than last year.

[Willard]

Does anybody know if the Texas Department of Corrections offers a work-release program?

[pbmax]

Does anybody know if the Texas Department of Corrections offers a work-release program?

Its a shame. I have never seen a better combo of run defense and screen interceptor than good ol' Johnny Jolly. Brought low by prescription cough medicine. Would that be legal or illegal in Canada to mix with grape soda or Dr. Pepper?

[Willard]

Its a shame. I have never seen a better combo of run defense and screen interceptor than good ol' Johnny Jolly. Brought low by prescription cough medicine. Would that be legal or illegal in Canada to mix with grape soda or Dr. Pepper?
Jolly is, errrr was great at knocking down the pass at the LOS. I wish they could teach our DL to do that. By the way -- I saw JJ Watt do it a few times in Houston's last game. Too bad he is still not playing in WI !

[Fritz]

Its a shame. I have never seen a better combo of run defense and screen interceptor than good ol' Johnny Jolly. Brought low by prescription cough medicine. Would that be legal or illegal in Canada to mix with grape soda or Dr. Pepper?

I live right on the border, so I am familiar with this. It's legal with grape soda, illegal with Dr. Pepper.