Studs and Duds - Week 17 New Year's Day!

[ThunderDan]

Studs and Duds – Week 17, 1/1/2012

Studs:

Matt Flynn - What can you say? He just has “It!” Matt goes 31/44 for 480 yards, 6TDS and 1 INT. Both the yards and TDs are franchise records. The Pack was trailing by 3 with less than 2:30 and Flynn drives the team down the field for a TD and the win. Flynn, in his second game as a starting QB, shows that he can bring his team back in the 4th something Pack fans have ragged on ARod for years. Luckily the D was able to hold to finish the game or Flynn’s late heroics would have been for not.

Jordy Nelson - 9 catches for 162 yards and 3 TDs. Not only did he make big play after big play, Jordy had a big block on Grant’s 80 yard TD reception that turned a 30 yard gain into a touchdown. The stiff-arm to get into the end zone for his first TD was a thing of beauty.

Duds:

Patrick Lee – Wow, Patrick Lee shows why drafting Cobb was a huge importance to our team if he only played on special teams alone. Patrick Lee dropped both kickoffs that touched him in the first half and contributed to the quick 9-0 lead that Detroit got out to. TT, please find a CB in the draft to put this guy off of our roster once and for all.

Packer D – I know we rested Woodson and Mathews but we still gave up 41 point and 575 yards. Burnett flashed at times, as did Bishop and Jones but the defense as a whole was poor. Hawk dropped too deep on 1 Lion’s TD and watched the receiver catch the ball in the end zone 4 yards in front of him.

Bishop and Walden – Special mention for their sheer stupidity. Walden hits Stafford after Stafford is sacked and then Bishop hits Stafford after the Lions get called for a false start penalty. Desmond there was no reason to get any where near the QB. I know Stafford is getting calls from MLS after his acting job but you have to know that is going to be called.

Other Notes:

Suh is a classless player. He does the Rodger’s belt move after he sacked ….. Flynn? What an idiot! If he had sacked ARod I could understand (I guess) but you sacked the Packers 2nd string QB who was lighting your D up.

The Refs and Instant Replay - Refs started to lose control of the game. If you are going to call Walden and Bishop for personal fouls you have to call Cherilus for hitting Williams late after the play. The play got very chippy at the end with pushing matches after a lot of plays. The refs needed to nip that at the bud as soon as that started. I am not sure what to say about instant replay. I think I disagreed with almost every call the refs made after review (except the DET fumble because you couldn’t see the ball).

Do you franchise Matt Flynn after today’s performance? I would hate to see Flynn walk away with at best a compensatory pick in the 2013 draft. You figure we should get a 1 or a high 2 and another pick in a trade. That could be a couple of extra picks to draft DL and OLB.

I’ll leave my BB comments out of this because I see another thread has already been created on this topic!

[gbgary]

bishop had one bad moment. wouldn't call him a dud. a good game otherwise.

[pbmax]

bishop had one bad moment. wouldn't call him a dud. a good game otherwise.

Scheffler hurt them, but Bishop had some nice coverage.

[ThunderDan]

bishop had one bad moment. wouldn't call him a dud. a good game otherwise.

Bad is the understatement of the year when you hit the other team's QB by the helmet on a play that never started!

I did say Bishop flashed in the above paragraph.

[Brandon494]

Why is Finley not on the studs? 8 targerts 7 catches and game winning TD pass.

[ThunderDan]

Why is Finley not on the studs? 8 targerts 7 catches and game winning TD pass.

Finley had a great receiving game. I should have probably included him.

I probably kept him off becase I saw him get rerouted a few times and once he got stoned at the line and knocked to the ground.

[gbgary]

Why is Finley not on the studs? 8 targerts 7 catches and game winning TD pass.

probably because it would turn the thread into a finley thread. which it has. way to go brandon! lol

[Willard]

I could do without Bush taunting the Lion who just scored a TD on him. What an ass hat.

[Cheesehead Craig]

bishop had one bad moment. wouldn't call him a dud. a good game otherwise.

Bishop also gave up a TD pass by leaving his zone.

[Old School]

Me thinks Pat Lee has punched his ticket out of town.

[Bossman641]

Tramon - Dud? Calvin roasted him

[MadtownPacker]

Why is Finley not on the studs? 8 targerts 7 catches and game winning TD pass.
YOTTO!!!!

See, all he has to do is live up to his hype like we know he can and he is loved. :lol:

[MadtownPacker]

Other Notes:

Suh is a classless player. He does the Rodger’s belt move after he sacked ….. Flynn? What an idiot! If he had sacked ARod I could understand (I guess) but you sacked the Packers 2nd string QB who was lighting your D up.I mentioned this in the game thread. Most pathetic move of the season for him. Didnt think he could tops his previous highlights.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Me thinks Pat Lee has punched his ticket out of town.

nah, he's a decent, corner, which is what he is paid for (and not paid highly). Remember how he filled-in for Woodson in SB? he is also good on ST coverage.

Grabbing the ball from field of play and kneeling down in endzone was nerves and/or ignorance.

[Brandon494]

nah, he's a decent, corner, which is what he is paid for (and not paid highly). Remember how he filled-in for Woodson in SB? he is also good on ST coverage.

Grabbing the ball from field of play and kneeling down in endzone was nerves and/or ignorance.

Bush was the guy who filled in for Woodson, hes a good gunner on ST but I doubt Pat Lee will be on the roster next season.

[Tarlam!]

I mentioned this in the game thread. Most pathetic move of the season for him. Didnt think he could tops his previous highlights.

He's classless and clueless and dirty. He did it á la the "Randy Moss Mooning", namely, to incite the crowd. Anytime a Lion made got a play or got a score, the guy tried to incite the crowd. It was part of the game plan. Ugly.

[Tarlam!]

nah, he's a decent, corner, which is what he is paid for (and not paid highly). Remember how he filled-in for Woodson in SB? he is also good on ST coverage.

Grabbing the ball from field of play and kneeling down in endzone was nerves and/or ignorance.

Agree with this evaluation. However, he'll be under pressure in TC next season.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bush was the guy who filled in for Woodson, hes a good gunner on ST but I doubt Pat Lee will be on the roster next season.

a gunner who can also fill-in at CB is valuable. Perhaps you are right just because there is nothing overly special about Lee, and TT has that wandering-eye of an aging gay man, always looking for younger talent.

[gbgary]

Bishop also gave up a TD pass by leaving his zone.

forgot about that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bush was the guy who filled in for Woodson, hes a good gunner on ST but I doubt Pat Lee will be on the roster next season.

Both Collins and Woodson got hurt in SB. Bush filled-in for Collins, Lee for Woodson.

Shall we go to the replay booth?

[Brandon494]

Woodson and Shields got hurt, not Collins and it was Bush who filled in for Woodson.

[MadtownPacker]

Both Collins and Woodson got hurt in SB. Bush filled-in for Collins, Lee for Woodson.

Shall we go to the replay booth?
Sounds like that replay got overturned! Ahaha, you dumb shit.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Woodson and Shields got hurt, not Collins and it was Bush who filled in for Woodson.

maybe you are right. I had image of Collins going to locker room before half, but maybe it was Shields.

you people all look alike to me.

[Patler]

maybe you are right. I had image of Collins going to locker room before half, but maybe it was Shields.

you people all look alike to me.

You are somewhat correct, Collins did go the the locker room early, for an I.V. because he was dehydrated and cramping. Collins came back and played the 2nd half. Shields tried to play, but couldn't.

[red]

bush had a horrible game on d. every bad play the d had, there was bush right in the middle of it.

he can't cover for shit, he has no clue where to go. he's just lost.

although, he did have that one big hit, so of course many packer fans will now want to throw millions at him and make him the starter

[pbmax]

Finley had a great receiving game. I should have probably included him.

I probably kept him off becase I saw him get rerouted a few times and once he got stoned at the line and knocked to the ground.

He also knocked KVB and his red tinted contacts on his BUTT on one chip block. Finley's blocking is getting better.

I think if he can learn to get more open against double teams, then he would be flat unstoppable.

[ThunderDan]

bush had a horrible game on d. every bad play the d had, there was bush right in the middle of it.

he can't cover for shit, he has no clue where to go. he's just lost.

although, he did have that one big hit, so of course many packer fans will now want to throw millions at him and make him the starter

PSSST .... Bush already makes millions!

I think it was Tennesse that offered him a contract and the Packers matched as a RFA for somewhere around $1.5M a year.

[pbmax]

I could do without Bush taunting the Lion who just scored a TD on him. What an ass hat.

Given the way Tramon laid out the WR/TE later, I suspect there was some talking by the Lions receivers about what they were doing to the Packers defense. I bet Bush was responding to something that was said.

Given that he did not cross a line or get a flag, I have no problem with it. Other than the two LBs whose should be examined for concussions, the team did not hurt itself today despite a chippy game.

[red]

He also knocked KVB and his red tinted contacts on his BUTT on one chip block. Finley's blocking is getting better.

I think if he can learn to get more open against double teams, then he would be flat unstoppable.

i'm wondering if giving him a new deal would fix his problem with drops?

he had great hands before this year, maybe he's feeling too much pressure to do too much to get that big payday?

[red]

PSSST .... Bush already makes millions!

I think it was Tennesse that offered him a contract and the Packers matched as a RFA for somewhere around $1.5M a year.

TT should have been fired for that one. i don't care if he did just build a dynasty

[Lurker64]

a gunner who can also fill-in at CB is valuable. Perhaps you are right just because there is nothing overly special about Lee, and TT has that wandering-eye of an aging gay man, always looking for younger talent.

Pat Lee is a valuable special teamer... in roles that are not supposed to touch the ball, but it's not really clear how much that's worth to you especially since he's a free agent this year. Man has absolutely no ball skills, so can't really be counted on to play coverage, but the size/speed combo is good so you're happy to have him play gunner/gunner-stuffer. I wouldn't be surprised to see him elsewhere next year.

[Brandon494]

TT should have been fired for that one. i don't care if he did just build a dynasty

I think TT knows what he is doing, Bush had a INT in SB which lead to a TD even though he also gave up a TD. :/

[pbmax]

i'm wondering if giving him a new deal would fix his problem with drops?

he had great hands before this year, maybe he's feeling too much pressure to do too much to get that big payday?

I, for one (Brandon probably makes two, Bretsky three), am hoping that is the case.

[ThunderDan]

I think TT knows what he is doing, Bush had a INT in SB which lead to a TD even though he also gave up a TD. :/

Actually, I am happy with Bush's play this year. He has once again turned into a special teams ace. We know he is what he is in coverage. Not good, hope you don't need him for anything more than a dime back. Good enough to play ST and sniff the field as a dime.

The issue I had was a couple of year's ago he sucked on ST and was his usual on D. He got two false start penalties on the same punt. How do you do that?

[Little Whiskey]

Stud: whoever lined up opposite of Suh. he was an absolute non-factor today.

[Tarlam!]

Stud: whoever lined up opposite of Suh. he was an absolute non-factor today.

Ha! But does the Belt after sacking Flynn, as was pointed out on the lions' thread. Haha.

[MJZiggy]

I, for one (Brandon probably makes two, Bretsky three), am hoping that is the case.

He does seem to be quite demonstrative whether he catches the ball or drops it.

[MJZiggy]

Stud: whoever lined up opposite of Suh. he was an absolute non-factor today.

He had to be a non-factor. He had to play within the rules--no pounding people's heads on the turf.

[Pugger]

I could do without Bush taunting the Lion who just scored a TD on him. What an ass hat.

No shit. Bush is a dope and should only be on the field on ST.

[Pugger]

Tramon - Dud? Calvin roasted him

Calvin roasts most DBs on a regular basis. :neutral:

[Pugger]

He's classless and clueless and dirty. He did it á la the "Randy Moss Mooning", namely, to incite the crowd. Anytime a Lion made got a play or got a score, the guy tried to incite the crowd. It was part of the game plan. Ugly.

Suh is a real gem. :roll: He makes one stinkin' play and "belts"? I hope Flynn belted him back after that TD slant to Finley!

[ThunderDan]

Suh is a real gem. :roll: He makes one stinkin' play and "belts"? I hope Flynn belted him back after that TD slant to Finley!

Flynn would have enough class not to "steal" someone else's move!

[Pugger]

i'm wondering if giving him a new deal would fix his problem with drops?

he had great hands before this year, maybe he's feeling too much pressure to do too much to get that big payday?

I think he's been pressing and trying too hard. It was nice to see him catch the ball more than dropping it. :-)

[Pugger]

Stud: whoever lined up opposite of Suh. he was an absolute non-factor today. Someone on another forum thought it was Sitton...

[Pugger]

Flynn would have enough class not to "steal" someone else's move!

I distinctly remember Flynn doing the belt after a TD in NE last season.

[pbmax]

Someone on another forum thought it was Sitton...

He rotates sides. It was both Sitton and EDS and probably some Wells as well. Lang may also have had him early while Cliffy was in.

Was Lang at LG while Cliffy was in or was he at RT?

[Lurker64]

Was Lang at LG while Cliffy was in or was he at RT?

I believe Newhouse played RT when Clifton was at LT... and Newhouse looked really natural on the right side.

[mission]

Not sure where Lang was but Newhouse was at RT, so yeah.. probably

[pbmax]

I'm in love with the idea of Sherrod at LT, Bulaga at RT and Newhouse swinging to both sides to backup. I hope Sherrod's leg heals fast and complete.

[Bretsky]

I, for one (Brandon probably makes two, Bretsky three), am hoping that is the case.

DITTO
Lock up the star

[Bretsky]

I believe Newhouse played RT when Clifton was at LT... and Newhouse looked really natural on the right side.


I saw more Marshall today as opposed to the Marshmellow; perhaps all my harsh criticism will help him get more focuses......lol..........you know..........all the players come in here to read this stuff !

[Upnorth]

This was the most complete oline play i have seen for quite sometime, possibly all year, when it comes to pass blocking. Our rush blocking was a bit worse than the last 3-4 games, however who cares when you get 6 tds and 480 yrds through the air.

Also I think Grant should get a stud comment, 80 yard screen plus some tough rushing yards. He is starting to remind me og 2009 grant finally, a veryy good and consistent running back who moves the chains and occasionally breaks the big one. Perfect for our o, and what i hope starks or green become.

Also after weeks of excellent play Mathay barely touched the ball so that must make him a dud (hehe).

[sharpe1027]

Actually, I am happy with Bush's play this year. He has once again turned into a special teams ace. We know he is what he is in coverage. Not good, hope you don't need him for anything more than a dime back. Good enough to play ST and sniff the field as a dime.

The issue I had was a couple of year's ago he sucked on ST and was his usual on D. He got two false start penalties on the same punt. How do you do that?

BF obaloo, this year Bush has not played as anywhere near as bad as his reputation. I get annoyed watching the game sometimes because it seems like people think he had a bad game because every catch they see with him in the picture they assume was his fault. He has become everyone's favorite whipping boy. He should leave GB because no matter how he plays from now on, people will think he played poorly.

He's no Woodson, but he's become a good nickel back and a great dime back. He's played as good or better than Peprah. The ONLY guy that I don't remember repeatedly getting burned when Stafford had all day to throw was Shields.

[pbmax]

I saw more Marshall today as opposed to the Marshmellow; perhaps all my harsh criticism will help him get more focuses......lol..........you know..........all the players come in here to read this stuff !

Its like harmless bulletin board material. Like a friend yelling at you to wake up.

[pbmax]

This was the most complete oline play i have seen for quite sometime, possibly all year, when it comes to pass blocking. Our rush blocking was a bit worse than the last 3-4 games, however who cares when you get 6 tds and 480 yrds through the air.

Also I think Grant should get a stud comment, 80 yard screen plus some tough rushing yards. He is starting to remind me og 2009 grant finally, a veryy good and consistent running back who moves the chains and occasionally breaks the big one. Perfect for our o, and what i hope starks or green become.

Also after weeks of excellent play Mathay barely touched the ball so that must make him a dud (hehe).

Yes on Grant.

[ThunderDan]

Just rewatched the parts of the game I wanted to.

1. I will move Finley to the studs column for saving a TD on the Flynn INT. JF hustled back after the play and you could easily excuse him for not doing that since that is exactly how he blew his knee out last year. Also, that INT was on Jordy. He didn't give the effort to get the inside on the slant and let the DET CB jump inside him. It was a good play by the CB but Jordy should have collided with him to create an incompletion.

2. Wells-Lang, Wells-Sitton and Wells-EDS worked the combo block on Suh to perfection. On a majority of run plays the Pack doubled Suh to start and then released one of the linemen to pick up a LB. A lot of Grants 3-9 yard rushes came because a G was able to knock the MLB out of the play.

[easy cheesy]

We should make a "Studs and Duds" Packer Rats Calendar.. that should provide copious amounts of entertainment for the year to come... yes? :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

BF obaloo, this year Bush has not played as anywhere near as bad as his reputation. I get annoyed watching the game sometimes because it seems like people think he had a bad game because every catch they see with him in the picture they assume was his fault. He has become everyone's favorite whipping boy. He should leave GB because no matter how he plays from now on, people will think he played poorly.

He's no Woodson, but he's become a good nickel back and a great dime back. He's played as good or better than Peprah. The ONLY guy that I don't remember repeatedly getting burned when Stafford had all day to throw was Shields.

Bush was awful in coverage in this last game. Awful! He got a gift interception. There are some plays where you don't know who is at fault, but there were just as many where it was clear that it was Bush.

[easy cheesy]

Blah Blah.. Did someone say BUSH?

Who cares.. I'm on an anti Brady Act.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBrfLX16a8

Hell YEAH!

[easy cheesy]

That was one of the greatest Superbowls EVAH! (arguably) GO PACK GO!

[Fritz]

For those of you who watched closely or have re-watched, how did the outside linebackers stack up? The GBPG suggests that no one really stood out, while The JSO says that Jones may have won the starting job for the post-season opposite Matthews.

[Scott Campbell]

Suh is a classless player. He does the Rodger’s belt move after he sacked ….. Flynn? What an idiot! If he had sacked ARod I could understand (I guess) but you sacked the Packers 2nd string QB who was lighting your D up.


Players mock other players TD dances all over the league. See Laurent Robinson's mocking Victor Cruz's salsa shuffle after his TD on Sunday night.

[Little Whiskey]

Fri
For those of you who watched closely or have re-watched, how did the outside linebackers stack up? The GBPG suggests that no one really stood out, while The JSO says that Jones may have won the starting job for the post-season opposite Matthews.

Fritz, I believe they are replaying the game on NFL network tonight.

[3irty1]

Bush disappointed me with the opportunity he was given on Sunday. Despite his reputation among the fanbase I think he has become quite the football player. Its just not easy to play that nickle corner spot in space in the middle of the field but he's got the size/movement skills to cover. Yesterday he was responsible for a few breakdowns but even worse were some of the angles he took to the sideline--horrendous. Him and Pat Lee are still the best duo of gunners in the NFL though.

[sharpe1027]

Bush was awful in coverage in this last game. Awful! He got a gift interception. There are some plays where you don't know who is at fault, but there were just as many where it was clear that it was Bush.

Saw one play that was either him or a LBer that took the wrong coverage, not sure who was at fault; it could easily have been Bush. Saw him get beat by a perfect throw by Stafford to a TE that he almost got a hand on, nothing wrong with that play, but I heard people complain anyway. Also saw him make a break on the ball that should have been a pick six for 100 yards. He dropped the ball, but made a great read. There were a ton of passes completed against all the DBs, is Bush the only DB we expect no passes to be completed against?

BF obaloo, the problem was more about Stafford being able to pitch a tent most of the game.

[pbmax]

McGinn's praise for Bush is awfully general: "Jarrett Bush played with all-world intensity as the slot fill-in for Woodson." I was not upset with any particular coverage by Bush, he seemed OK, but he should have scored on that missed INT. McGinn thinks Burnett's fumble recovery should have gone for a TD as well.

But he blasts Williams and Shields more and gives the unit an overall 1 football grade.

BTW, who knocked the ball out on the fumble? I thought Bishop made the tackle and Jones forced the fumble. But two publications have it as Bishop. I think that is wrong and I thought it was clearly Jones on replay.

[sharpe1027]

McGinn's praise for Bush is awfully general: "Jarrett Bush played with all-world intensity as the slot fill-in for Woodson." I was not upset with any particular coverage by Bush, he seemed OK, but he should have scored on that missed INT. McGinn thinks Burnett's fumble recovery should have gone for a TD as well.

But he blasts Williams and Shields more and gives the unit an overall 1 football grade.

BTW, who knocked the ball out on the fumble? I thought Bishop made the tackle and Jones forced the fumble. But two publications have it as Bishop. I think that is wrong and I thought it was clearly Jones on replay.

I thought it was Bishop when I saw it live. He tried to strip the ball with his arm, but it may have been coming out before that... I haven't seen a replay.

[pbmax]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/09000d5d825997e4/Packers-defense-fumble-recovery

I'm wrong again. I think this was one of those plays where Bishop was rushing as LOLB.

[Smidgeon]

Bush disappointed me with the opportunity he was given on Sunday. Despite his reputation among the fanbase I think he has become quite the football player. Its just not easy to play that nickle corner spot in space in the middle of the field but he's got the size/movement skills to cover. Yesterday he was responsible for a few breakdowns but even worse were some of the angles he took to the sideline--horrendous. Him and Pat Lee are still the best duo of gunners in the NFL though.

QFT

[Tarlam!]

BF obaloo

I seem to be going blonde, WTF does this mean?

[sharpe1027]

I seem to be going blonde, WTF does this mean?

Oops. It should have been: BF OBOALOO, which translates to: Before Favre (says I am old enough to have been watching the Packers before Favre): Offered as opinion Based on A Life time of Observation, but is not Offered as a statement of fact for any purpose whatsoever.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?23065-Tebow-takes-a-beating/page2

[mraynrand]

I thought Brad Jones had an excellent sack of the fan running onto the field

[red]

For those of you who watched closely or have re-watched, how did the outside linebackers stack up? The GBPG suggests that no one really stood out, while The JSO says that Jones may have won the starting job for the post-season opposite Matthews.

jones had one nice play, i guess that's better then what the other guys did. except so'oto, he had a nice sack that was taken away by a penalty or something like that.

other then jones one play he was a JAG

[hoosier]

I thought Brad Jones had an excellent sack of the fan running onto the field

The best part of that whole scene was Crosby. While the security guy missed his own tackle and Jones brought him down and then went into his little mini celebration, Crosby just kept warming up for his kickoff like he didn't have another thought in the world. Classic.

[Freak Out]

The best part of that whole scene was Crosby. While the security guy missed his own tackle and Jones brought him down and then went into his little mini celebration, Crosby just kept warming up for his kickoff like he didn't have another thought in the world. Classic.

Funny stuff....I missed this.

[MJZiggy]

Funny stuff....I missed this.

Me too. Hoping it hits youtube sometime soon.

[MadtownPacker]

Damn I didnt see that either. Best tackle of the game! :lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k7vW00LoOA

[MadtownPacker]

Play is under review. Let watch from a different angle!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEQG1T-l03o

[KYPack]

jones had one nice play, i guess that's better then what the other guys did. except so'oto, he had a nice sack that was taken away by a penalty or something like that.

other then jones one play he was a JAG

I think the JSO love for Jones was based on this principle...

Jones was mainly just a guy, but he was just a guy in position. Walden and Zombie have had a lot of trouble with that very simple defensive idea this season.

[Tarlam!]

Walden and Zombie have had a lot of trouble with that very simple defensive idea this season.

Would you help me understand, what the midea is and why you consider simple? What would be a tough assignment for them by comparison?

[KYPack]

Would you help me understand, what the midea is and why you consider simple? What would be a tough assignment for them by comparison?

The position that we are trying to get filled is ROLB. The Right outside linebacker functions like a DE in some sets and covers in other situations. The problem we have had at that spot is contain. As an outside backer, you must turn the wide play back inside, contain the offense so your help can tackle the ball carrier. You must fight, kick, scratch, or claw your way to stay wide and turn the play on a sweep back inside. In the Chiefs game, Walden lost contain on 3 very glaring occasions. So, they benched his ass and put in Zombo. Zombo frittered away his big chance by proceeding to blow contain on two plays. This caused poor Dom Capers to tear his wig off.

We don't have a ROLB that we can trust. By we, I mean the other 10 guys on D. When that happens, it screws up your defense. Everybody starts hedging and cheating their position to try and patch the hole on the wide side. We need a JAG. A guy who will keep contain, cover properly, and maybe blitz and get home once in awhile.

It's easy if you simply do your job. My impression of Zombo is he tries too hard. Walden? A crazy ass airhead. The other guys? too green. Out of the whole lot, I'd go with Jones. Jones is never going to the Pro Bowl, but I think he knows the job. He was always in position Sunday, if not too spectacularly. Give me a guy who will be in the right spot over a guy who go maverick on ya, & take himself out of the play.

I'll post more after I watch the replay tonite.

It's cool. We've got two weeks to get it right. I know all the defensive assistants read Packer Rats. We'll be able to tell 'em what to do before the first game.

[Tarlam!]

Thanks, KY. Really appreciate your coaching.

[Fritz]

Well, if Dom and Company are worth their salt, they will read KY's assessment and promptly put Jonesy on the first team at ROLB and instruct him to just do his damn job and not try to freelance.

I am disappointed in Zombo, but I think KY's hit it on the head here, too: he's trying to hard to make a splash, to get his job back. He's forgotten, it seems, that the core principle is to do your job. The 3-4, or the version Dom runs, seems predicated more than most defenses on each player doing a particular job, which may not be swarming to the ball. Personally, I find it a bit frustrating to read and see that the job of the defensive line is (mostly) to take up space and eat up blockers and not get after the ball. But that's the system, so if you're in it you've got to bite your tongue and fight your urges and do your job. I guess if you're Jones or Howard Green or Ryan Pickett or AJ Hawk you just do your job so the playmakers like Woodson and Matthews can do their thing.

[Guiness]

It's easy if you simply do your job. My impression of Zombo is he tries too hard. Walden? A crazy ass airhead. The other guys? too green. Out of the whole lot, I'd go with Jones. Jones is never going to the Pro Bowl, but I think he knows the job. He was always in position Sunday, if not too spectacularly. Give me a guy who will be in the right spot over a guy who go maverick on ya, & take himself out of the play.

I'll post more after I watch the replay tonite.

It's cool. We've got two weeks to get it right. I know all the defensive assistants read Packer Rats. We'll be able to tell 'em what to do before the first game.

Want to hear your impression after the replay. I worry about Jones getting washed out even if he is in position.

[hoosier]

The clip of Jones's tackle can still be seen on the JSO Packer blog. It looks like the NFLs legal dept had it taken down from youtube for copyright.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

[pbmax]

Are Walden and Zombo having more trouble in nickel than in base? The contain assignment isn't different, but the blocking combos are.

[mraynrand]

In the Chiefs game, Walden lost contain on 3 very glaring occasions. So, they benched his ass and put in Zombo. Zombo frittered away his big chance by proceeding to blow contain on two plays. This caused poor Dom Capers to tear his wig off.

Begs the question: who's dumber?

http://www.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/hash/1125-erik-walden-mug-bn.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WtdXDEP9fck/S_GHrkq6JTI/AAAAAAAABOc/6EPY8vGZYTo/s1600/Frank+Zombo+DE+packers.jpg

[KYPack]

I watched the game Sunday on a laptop with about a 5' window. Finished the NFLN replay on the big screen Dy and learned a few things:

- I was dead wrong about Jones playing effectively at ROLB. He played the left side exclusively on Sunday and is listed at back-up LOLB on the dpth chart. He played OK in spots, not as well as I saw it in Jellyvision on the laptop.

Zombo and Walden played most of the game at ROLB with Zombo getting the majority of the plays.

I'm sure the blistered those two about the contain issue. They both paid close attention to holding the edge. In fact, they both over-compensated to keep contain. Zombo stayed with the bull rush move when rushing the passer. Presumably, he wanted to keep a balanced position and not allow a screen or draw to either side. Zombo seems to play stiff and real upright.

Walden also watched the edge like a hawk, not wanting to catch another ass chewing for blowing contain again. These two had much better positioning than their previous debacle in KC, but...

They didn't make any freaking plays! they were there, filled properly, but it was like we had 10and a half men on the field. We simply have to get more production from that spot & who knows what the answer is.

So'oto played both sides and did make several nice plays, showing good aggression and some savvy. But the kid is way too green to trust with a play-off start.

[Joemailman]

Jones was the starting ROLB in practice today. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-jones-reclaiming-his-position-st3mam5-136707593.html

[KYPack]

Jones was the starting ROLB in practice today. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-jones-reclaiming-his-position-st3mam5-136707593.html

Good lookin' out, Joe.

That could be the answer to the musical question, "Who's the ROLB"?

Walden and Zombo sure weren't the anwer Sunday.

Zombo plays like he hasn't recovered from his injuries or something. God, he plays stiff. Walden's head is still screwed up from the tiff w/ the GF and the lost weekend at the gray bar hotel.

[Joemailman]

Kevin Greene's gotta be thinking "They gotta give me something to work with". Since giving up a bunch to get CMIII, TT has gone bargain basement at the position. This draft it may be time to invest a higher pick in a bookend.

[KYPack]

A couple posts and the coaching staff makes the move that day.

We must all learn to use the power of PackerRats wisely.

Don't give them too many ideas to implement, they've only got two weeks to prepare.

[pbmax]

A couple posts and the coaching staff makes the move that day.

We must all learn to use the power of PackerRats wisely.

Don't give them too many ideas to implement, they've only got two weeks to prepare.

Then let me suggest that if Jones does start and is not the answer, stick So'oto out there for the CG (hopefully), strap a dozen bottle rockets to his backside, set them on fire and let him go nuts.

[pbmax]

Good lookin' out, Joe.

That could be the answer to the musical question, "Who's the ROLB"?

Walden and Zombo sure weren't the anwer Sunday.

Zombo plays like he hasn't recovered from his injuries or something. God, he plays stiff. Walden's head is still screwed up from the tiff w/ the GF and the lost weekend at the gray bar hotel.

Justin made a nice point that I have not been able to verify via You Tube that Jones played a lot of LOLB in college and might be more at home there, and was set back some when Clay switched to the Left in his second year.

However, JSO reminds that Jones was unavailable for a signifcant part of training camp in '10 and then got hurt twice in the regular season as well. Now he did have some starts, but if Justin is right, he might be an easier fit on the left side. It should be correctable with time, which, of course, there is none.

[Patler]

A couple posts and the coaching staff makes the move that day.

We must all learn to use the power of PackerRats wisely.

Don't give them too many ideas to implement, they've only got two weeks to prepare.

The power of the Packerrats is indeed strong. I remember a certain Rat who predicted a famous retirement shortly after the playoff loss to the Giants. Was it an act foreseen by the venerable old Rat, or an act suggested by him and received and acted on by the player ?????.....

[Lurker64]

The power of the Packerrats is indeed strong. I remember a certain Rat who predicted a famous retirement shortly after the playoff loss to the Giants. Was it an act foreseen by the venerable old Rat, or an act suggested by him and received and acted on by the player ?????.....

So we can blame you ??????

[Patler]

Justin made a nice point that I have not been able to verify via You Tube that Jones played a lot of LOLB in college and might be more at home there, and was set back some when Clay switched to the Left in his second year.

However, JSO reminds that Jones was unavailable for a signifcant part of training camp in '10 and then got hurt twice in the regular season as well. Now he did have some starts, but if Justin is right, he might be an easier fit on the left side. It should be correctable with time, which, of course, there is none.

He did play left:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL-TixzZoE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrzpNvZtt64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHbTHiGKE4A

[Guiness]

The clip of Jones's tackle can still be seen on the JSO Packer blog. It looks like the NFLs legal dept had it taken down from youtube for copyright.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

I'm guessing the coach who made the initial hit wasn't Greene. He would've done a better job wrapping him up and Jones wouldn't of had to clean up and finish the play.

How old is Greene anyways? Shit, we might be barking up the wrong tree looking for our ROLB. Maybe he's in the building and just needs to be promoted to the active roster!

[pbmax]

...

[IMalden-mug-bn.jpg[/IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WtdXDEP9fck/S_GHrkq6JTI/AAAAAAAABOc/6EPY8vGZYTo/s1600/Frank+Zombo+DE+packers.jpg

Bretsky's bikini Google news alert must have failed him since he has yet to comment but that scene looks like Jersey to me, it might just be Zombo though.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jones was the starting ROLB in practice today. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-jones-reclaiming-his-position-st3mam5-136707593.html

The contest for starting ROLB is seeming eerily like the republican contest for top non-Romney. Players look like the answer, then you get to know them a little better. Last summer, So'oto and Perry were the wunderkinds, world beaters. Turns out the world won. Cain & Zombo had their 15 minutes at top of list. Then Gingrich & Walden get stronger and stronger, look like top dogs, but ugly marital problems sink their ships. Now at the 11th hour, Santorum and Jones are last men standing.

[bobblehead]

The position that we are trying to get filled is ROLB. The Right outside linebacker functions like a DE in some sets and covers in other situations. The problem we have had at that spot is contain. As an outside backer, you must turn the wide play back inside, contain the offense so your help can tackle the ball carrier. You must fight, kick, scratch, or claw your way to stay wide and turn the play on a sweep back inside. In the Chiefs game, Walden lost contain on 3 very glaring occasions. So, they benched his ass and put in Zombo. Zombo frittered away his big chance by proceeding to blow contain on two plays. This caused poor Dom Capers to tear his wig off.

We don't have a ROLB that we can trust. By we, I mean the other 10 guys on D. When that happens, it screws up your defense. Everybody starts hedging and cheating their position to try and patch the hole on the wide side. We need a JAG. A guy who will keep contain, cover properly, and maybe blitz and get home once in awhile.

It's easy if you simply do your job. My impression of Zombo is he tries too hard. Walden? A crazy ass airhead. The other guys? too green. Out of the whole lot, I'd go with Jones. Jones is never going to the Pro Bowl, but I think he knows the job. He was always in position Sunday, if not too spectacularly. Give me a guy who will be in the right spot over a guy who go maverick on ya, & take himself out of the play.

I'll post more after I watch the replay tonite.

It's cool. We've got two weeks to get it right. I know all the defensive assistants read Packer Rats. We'll be able to tell 'em what to do before the first game.

funny you say that because in the ROLB thread before the season Jones was my pick for pretty much the reasons you cite. I agree that drafting a guy would be nice (side note: this is the reason we saw so much vic so'oto against the Lions I suspect)

[bobblehead]

Well, if Dom and Company are worth their salt, they will read KY's assessment and promptly put Jonesy on the first team at ROLB and instruct him to just do his damn job and not try to freelance.

I am disappointed in Zombo, but I think KY's hit it on the head here, too: he's trying to hard to make a splash, to get his job back. He's forgotten, it seems, that the core principle is to do your job. The 3-4, or the version Dom runs, seems predicated more than most defenses on each player doing a particular job, which may not be swarming to the ball. Personally, I find it a bit frustrating to read and see that the job of the defensive line is (mostly) to take up space and eat up blockers and not get after the ball. But that's the system, so if you're in it you've got to bite your tongue and fight your urges and do your job. I guess if you're Jones or Howard Green or Ryan Pickett or AJ Hawk you just do your job so the playmakers like Woodson and Matthews can do their thing.

All D's are predicated on doing your job. This is why I don't believe in the "playmaker" theory and say it takes 11 guys doing their job and then the better ones look dominant. How dominant does clay look getting double teamed and run away from??

[mraynrand]

All D's are predicated on doing your job. This is why I don't believe in the "playmaker" theory and say it takes 11 guys doing their job and then the better ones look dominant. How dominant does clay look getting double teamed and run away from??


amazing: you deny and confirm the playmaker theory in two consecutive sentences. Double-teaming and running away from the Claymaker 1) proves that he is the force we know him to be since he is being game-planned for and 2) double teaming him will ultimately and obviously make the guys around him appear more effective, since he's reducing the effective field for the opposing offense.

[KYPack]

They may have to make this move. Jones is a steady player. He's been playing OLB in a 3-4 forever. He knows the job and understands Capers concepts. Dom flat out needs a player at that spot that he can trust. Walden and Zomb have shown that they can't be trusted.

The downside of Jones game is pretty simple. He has lots of trouble with big, physical T's. Jones big setback in his career was the play-off game at AZ. Levi Brown stoned Jones and beat him up. After a short time, Jones went into his shell and did a pretty decent imitation of the invisible man. Kevin has to watch him and keep his motor going all game (something KG is an expert at).

It's an emergency move, but WTH, we are in an emergency situation.

[pbmax]

They may have to make this move. Jones is a steady player. He's been playing OLB in a 3-4 forever. He knows the job and understands Capers concepts. Dom flat out needs a player at that spot that he can trust. Walden and Zomb have shown that they can't be trusted.

The downside of Jones game is pretty simple. He has lots of trouble with big, physical T's. Jones big setback in his career was the play-off game at AZ. Levi Brown stoned Jones and beat him up. After a short time, Jones went into his shell and did a pretty decent imitation of the invisible man. Kevin has to watch him and keep his motor going all game (something KG is an expert at).

It's an emergency move, but WTH, we are in an emergency situation.

It troubles me greatly when Levi Brown is mentioned as effective versus the Packers. He is widely regarded as a weak link at tackle around the league (his coaches know more and could disagree). But even the Packers passed on the guy when they had a need.

[Pugger]

They may have to make this move. Jones is a steady player. He's been playing OLB in a 3-4 forever. He knows the job and understands Capers concepts. Dom flat out needs a player at that spot that he can trust. Walden and Zomb have shown that they can't be trusted.

The downside of Jones game is pretty simple. He has lots of trouble with big, physical T's. Jones big setback in his career was the play-off game at AZ. Levi Brown stoned Jones and beat him up. After a short time, Jones went into his shell and did a pretty decent imitation of the invisible man. Kevin has to watch him and keep his motor going all game (something KG is an expert at).

It's an emergency move, but WTH, we are in an emergency situation.

Jones ain't the only player of ours that has problems with big physical Ts. :neutral:

[KYPack]

Jones ain't the only player of ours that has problems with big physical Ts. :neutral:

Agreed, Pug.

I'd answer both of you in this post to save keystrokes.

I agree with Packer coaches in not messing with Levi Brown. He's basically a stiff. Speed rushers give him fits and beat him to death. As a rookie, Jones basic MO was to speed rush. Brown countered Jones by crushing him on his wide attempts and punishing his ass. It worked like a champ. Jones should have countered with some inside stuff, but he just didn't have the chops in those days.

Hopefully he's added some clubs in his bag.

[Gunakor]

Kevin Greene's gotta be thinking "They gotta give me something to work with". Since giving up a bunch to get CMIII, TT has gone bargain basement at the position. This draft it may be time to invest a higher pick in a bookend.

I was fairly vocal in my displeasure when Randall Cobb was taken in the 2011 draft, specifically because I knew we needed another pass rusher opposite Matthews and Justin Houston was sitting there practically giftwrapped with Ted's name on the label. Yet, in hindsight, Cobb has certainly proven worthy of the selection. And while last year's Super Bowl featured the top 2 defenses in the NFL, this year's Super Bowl will potentially feature the 2 worst defenses in the league. So obviously the conventional wisdom that defense wins championships doesn't apply this season - which means the decision to draft Cobb over Houston was clearly the right one, at least for this season anyway. Pass rush be damned, we put over 500 points on the board this season. And we're 15-1, #1 seed in the NFC bracket. Patriots fans are having this same conversation while holding the #1 seed in the AFC bracket.

This has me thinking. Is this year simply a statistical anomaly, or an indication of the future? Good defense has always trumped good offense, and the words "Offense Wins Games, Defense Wins Championships" is or should be painted on the walls of every locker room in America. Going forward in this sport, will they now say "Offense Wins Games, Offense Wins Championships" and stress the importance of 4.5 yards per carry or 9 yards per pass attempt over the importance getting the defense off the field on third downs? If so, I'd rather we spent our first and second round picks on running backs and tight ends and offensive linemen than on pass rushers or cover corners. If the new name of the game is simply outscoring everybody, then lets make certain nobody can outscore us.

[Bretsky]

Bretsky's bikini Google news alert must have failed him since he has yet to comment but that scene looks like Jersey to me, it might just be Zombo though.

who cares about the dude; she is hot

[pbmax]

I was fairly vocal in my displeasure when Randall Cobb was taken in the 2011 draft, specifically because I knew we needed another pass rusher opposite Matthews and Justin Houston was sitting there practically giftwrapped with Ted's name on the label. Yet, in hindsight, Cobb has certainly proven worthy of the selection. And while last year's Super Bowl featured the top 2 defenses in the NFL, this year's Super Bowl will potentially feature the 2 worst defenses in the league. So obviously the conventional wisdom that defense wins championships doesn't apply this season - which means the decision to draft Cobb over Houston was clearly the right one, at least for this season anyway. Pass rush be damned, we put over 500 points on the board this season. And we're 15-1, #1 seed in the NFC bracket. Patriots fans are having this same conversation while holding the #1 seed in the AFC bracket.

This has me thinking. Is this year simply a statistical anomaly, or an indication of the future? Good defense has always trumped good offense, and the words "Offense Wins Games, Defense Wins Championships" is or should be painted on the walls of every locker room in America. Going forward in this sport, will they now say "Offense Wins Games, Offense Wins Championships" and stress the importance of 4.5 yards per carry or 9 yards per pass attempt over the importance getting the defense off the field on third downs? If so, I'd rather we spent our first and second round picks on running backs and tight ends and offensive linemen than on pass rushers or cover corners. If the new name of the game is simply outscoring everybody, then lets make certain nobody can outscore us.

Its not that defense no longer wins championships, it is just that its very hard to win a championship with one hand tied behind your back. Among all the Super Bowl champions of the past decade, only the Ravens could be accused of winning it almost entirely on defense.

More common is that the differential between what your offense can do and what the defense allows is the best indicator. And there are a number of ways to accomplish that.

[pbmax]

... This has me thinking. Is this year simply a statistical anomaly, or an indication of the future? Good defense has always trumped good offense, and the words "Offense Wins Games, Defense Wins Championships" is or should be painted on the walls of every locker room in America. Going forward in this sport, will they now say "Offense Wins Games, Offense Wins Championships" and stress the importance of 4.5 yards per carry or 9 yards per pass attempt over the importance getting the defense off the field on third downs? If so, I'd rather we spent our first and second round picks on running backs and tight ends and offensive linemen than on pass rushers or cover corners. If the new name of the game is simply outscoring everybody, then lets make certain nobody can outscore us.

Similar to 1983 to 1985, rules changes prompted an outburst of offense and its no fluke that many of the passing records challenged this year were set in 1983-85.

Defenses will adjust and the offense will retract a bit in the next few years. But offense will never retract to the 70s when football scoring was as rare as it is in soccer.

[Guiness]

Just realized Mike Neale isn't mentioned anywhere in here, neither is he in the boxscore or the inactive list. I actually checked the transactions to see if he made it onto the IR, but don't see him there either!

Did he play Sunday?

[Tarlam!]

Did he play Sunday?

He definitely played against Chicago, he was not on the inactive lists against Detroit, but his bio on Packers.com has no registered tackles.

[Upnorth]

So our hoped for savior is pretty much forgotten? Not a good thing. According to McGinn he subbed in on 13 snaps. I hope it is to let his injury heal more and keep him fresh for the playoffs.

[Patler]

So our hoped for savior is pretty much forgotten? Not a good thing. According to McGinn he subbed in on 13 snaps. I hope it is to let his injury heal more and keep him fresh for the playoffs.

A couple weeks ago the coaches said he would play less and Wynn would play more because Wynn was playing more effectively than Neal. Neal played a fair number of snaps in several games without registering a stat. He has since showed up a coupe times on the stat line, but basically he isn't doing much when he gets in.

[Upnorth]

The keep him fresh statement was ment as sarcasm for a guy who is getting less and less snaps every week. I was hoping he could be this years Walden or Poppinga, teh guy who comes in and suddenly the defence pulls its head out of its ass.

Guess I need to work on the sarcasm again.

Typing teh above has made me think of a tangent. In both 2009 and 2010 our d starts under preforming and needs a switch to get better. 2008 never had that aha! moment. Is there a problem with the Capers defence that we arent talking about?

Some one posted last year how Capers d's tend to be great the first season or two and then fall apart. Does he start loving his play makers too much and miss other deficencies? Does he believe in his guys too much when there are better players waiting?

[Smidgeon]

The keep him fresh statement was ment as sarcasm for a guy who is getting less and less snaps every week. I was hoping he could be this years Walden or Poppinga, teh guy who comes in and suddenly the defence pulls its head out of its ass.

Guess I need to work on the sarcasm again.

Typing teh above has made me think of a tangent. In both 2009 and 2010 our d starts under preforming and needs a switch to get better. 2008 never had that aha! moment. Is there a problem with the Capers defence that we arent talking about?

Some one posted last year how Capers d's tend to be great the first season or two and then fall apart. Does he start loving his play makers too much and miss other deficencies? Does he believe in his guys too much when there are better players waiting?

Does he miss Nick Collins? ;)

[Smidgeon]

I was fairly vocal in my displeasure when Randall Cobb was taken in the 2011 draft, specifically because I knew we needed another pass rusher opposite Matthews and Justin Houston was sitting there practically giftwrapped with Ted's name on the label. Yet, in hindsight, Cobb has certainly proven worthy of the selection. And while last year's Super Bowl featured the top 2 defenses in the NFL, this year's Super Bowl will potentially feature the 2 worst defenses in the league. So obviously the conventional wisdom that defense wins championships doesn't apply this season - which means the decision to draft Cobb over Houston was clearly the right one, at least for this season anyway. Pass rush be damned, we put over 500 points on the board this season. And we're 15-1, #1 seed in the NFC bracket. Patriots fans are having this same conversation while holding the #1 seed in the AFC bracket.

This has me thinking. Is this year simply a statistical anomaly, or an indication of the future? Good defense has always trumped good offense, and the words "Offense Wins Games, Defense Wins Championships" is or should be painted on the walls of every locker room in America. Going forward in this sport, will they now say "Offense Wins Games, Offense Wins Championships" and stress the importance of 4.5 yards per carry or 9 yards per pass attempt over the importance getting the defense off the field on third downs? If so, I'd rather we spent our first and second round picks on running backs and tight ends and offensive linemen than on pass rushers or cover corners. If the new name of the game is simply outscoring everybody, then lets make certain nobody can outscore us.

Everybody's hailing Brees for breaking Marino's record. But how many QBs threw for over 5000 yards this year? When Marino made the record, wasn't he ridiculously far ahead of the rest of the QB field?

[Guiness]

Everybody's hailing Brees for breaking Marino's record. But how many QBs threw for over 5000 yards this year? When Marino made the record, wasn't he ridiculously far ahead of the rest of the QB field?

Yes, of course. The setting Marino accomplished it in was very different from today's NFL, not just for QB's - it's not as frequently mentioned, but just as important are the changes WR's have seen in the past few years. Changes to rules regarding the QB's has allowed them to stay healthy, but great QB's have been healthy for a 16 game season before.

The ban on helmet to helmet hits on defenseless receivers has changed the game. When Marino set the record, Ronnie Lott was out there, and going over the middle was taking your life in your hands. It's a lot different now, and it has opened up the passing game, giving them more field they can effectively use, more room to run away from the DB's.

[smuggler]

So'oto had a sack of Stafford wiped out by Walden's late hit. =(

[Tarlam!]

Yes, of course. The setting Marino accomplished it in was very different from today's NFL, not just for QB's - it's not as frequently mentioned, but just as important are the changes WR's have seen in the past few years. Changes to rules regarding the QB's has allowed them to stay healthy, but great QB's have been healthy for a 16 game season before.

The ban on helmet to helmet hits on defenseless receivers has changed the game. When Marino set the record, Ronnie Lott was out there, and going over the middle was taking your life in your hands. It's a lot different now, and it has opened up the passing game, giving them more field they can effectively use, more room to run away from the DB's.

:clap: Very insightful. Thanks.

[Guiness]

Walden gets a $15K fine for his hit on Stafford - not only was it late, but he hit him in the 'head and neck area'.