PDA

View Full Version : Our Elitist Universe: Should we let them into the party?



jack's smirking revenge
08-16-2006, 11:15 AM
Plan boosts solar system to 12 planets
Astronomers propose keeping Pluto in the club — and adding three more

By Robert Roy Britt
Senior science writer

Updated: 1:00 a.m. CT Aug 16, 2006
The tally of planets in our solar system would jump instantly to a dozen under a highly controversial new definition proposed by the International Astronomical Union.

Eventually, there would be hundreds of planets, as more round objects are found beyond Neptune.

The proposal, which sources tell Space.com is gaining broad support, tries to plug a big gap in astronomy textbooks, which have never had a formal definition for the word "planet." It addresses discoveries of Pluto-sized worlds that have in recent years pitched astronomers into heated debates over terminology.

The asteroid Ceres, which is round, would be recast as a dwarf planet in the new scheme.
Pluto would remain a planet, and its moon Charon would be reclassified as a planet. Both would be called "plutons," however, to distinguish them from the eight "classical" planets.
A far-out Pluto-sized object known as 2003 UB313, currently nicknamed Xena, would also be called a pluton.
That would make Caltech researcher Mike Brown, who found 2003 UB313, formally the discoverer of the 12th planet. But he thinks it's a lousy idea.

"It's flattering to be considered discoverer of the 12th planet," Brown said in a telephone interview. He applauded the committee's efforts but said the overall proposal is "a complete mess." By his count, the definition means there are already 53 known planets in our solar system, with countless more to be discovered.

Brown and another expert said the proposal, being put forth Wednesday at the IAU General Assembly meeting in Prague, is not logical. For example, Brown said, it does not make sense to consider Ceres and Charon planets and not call our moon (which is bigger than
both) a planet.

IAU members will vote on the proposal on Aug. 24. Its fate is far from clear.

The definition
The definition, which basically says round objects orbiting stars will be called planets, seems simple at first glance:

"A planet is a celestial body that (a) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (b) is in orbit around a star, and is neither a star nor a satellite of a planet."

"Our goal was to find a scientific basis for a new definition of planet, and we chose gravity as the determining factor," said Richard Binzel, a planetary scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was part of a seven-member IAU committee that hashed out the proposal. "Nature decides whether or not an object is a planet."

"I think they did the right thing," said Alan Stern, a planetary scientist at the Southwest Research Institute and leader of NASA's New Horizons robotic mission to Pluto. Stern expects a consensus to form around the proposal.

"They chose a nice economical definition that a lot of us wanted to see," Stern told Space.com. "A lot of the other definitions had big problems. This is the only one that doesn't have big problems."

Gibor Basri, an astronomy professor at the University of California at Berkeley, said the committee "made the most rational and scientific choices; namely ones which are physically based and can be most readily verified by observations."

Basri made a similar proposal to the IAU in 2003, part of the long-running saga of failed attempts to define the word "planet."

Expect heated discussion
But the IAU draft resolution explaining the definition is more complex, with caveats and suggestions and surprises that some astronomers think render the entire proposal unworkable.

In particular, this aspect was criticized: A pair of round objects that orbit around a point in space that is outside both objects — meaning the center of gravity (or barycenter) is between the two planets in space as with Pluto and Charon — would be called double planets. Alan Boss, a planet-formation theorist at the Carnegie Institution of Washington, called the deliniation arbitrary.

Brown said there will likely be other similar pairings discovered, and it's even possible a "triple planet" would be found, given this definition.

In response to the criticism, Binzel said it was important to distinguish between planets and satellites. He noted that barycenters are used to define and describe double stars and so the concept should apply to planets, too.

"The planet and satellite definition must be universally applicable, to all solar systems, not just our own," Binzel said by e-mail from Prague. "For example: Picture a pair of Jupiters discovered in another solar system. Would one of these Jupiters be a planet, and the other a satellite? The barycenter criterion means that a pair of Jupiters would be a double planet."

Other astronomers saw other problems.

"It looks to me like a definition that was written by a committee of lawyers, not a committee of scientists," Boss said. "I think these criteria are as arbitrary as any other you might come up with."

Asteroid Ceres, since it is round, would be considered a planet. Strangely enough, Ceres was called a planet when first discovered in 1801, then reclassified. It is just 578 miles in diameter, compared with 1,430 for Pluto and 7,926 for Earth.

If astronomers determine that asteroids Pallas, Vesta, and Hygeia are also round, "they will also have to be considered planets," said Owen Gingerich, a historian and astronomer emeritus at Harvard who led the committee. The IAU proposal suggests (but does not require) that these be called dwarf planets. Pluto could also be considered a dwarf, which the IAU recommends as an informal label.

So to recap: Pluto would be a planet and a pluton and also a dwarf.

Boss was bothered by the lack of definitiveness on this and other points.

Boss, along with Stern, was on an IAU committee of astronomers that failed to agree on a definition. After a year, the IAU disbanded that committee and formed the new one, which included the author Dava Sobel in an effort to bring new ideas to the process.

Boss called their proposal "creative" and "detailed" but said it does not hang together as a cohesive argument.

"I'm sure this will engender a lot of heated discussion," Boss said by telephone before his departure for the Czech Republic to cast his ballot. "This is what everyone will be talking about in the coffee shops of Prague for the next few days."

Tally would soar
Given all the nuances in the definition, a dozen other objects would be put on an IAU list of "candidate planets" which, upon further study, might bring the tally of planets in our solar system to 24.

Eventually the inventory of planets would soar.

Stern, the New Horizons mission leader, said there could be "hundreds and maybe a thousand" objects in our solar system that are at least as big as Pluto. That's fine with him. "This is what we do as scientists. You discover new things, you adapt to new facts."

Brown, the discoverer of the potential 12th planet, said the basic definition is fine, but "the resolution itself is a complete mess."

The resolution calls for a new IAU committee that would evaluate other candidate planets. Normally, that's a process that takes place in a scientific journal, Brown said. He called the notion of an IAU gatekeeper "bizarre" and "really a bad idea."

"The IAU should make a definition, then it's up to scientists to go about their business" of deciding what objects fit the definition, Brown said.

But Binzel defended the approach: "The IAU has existing committees that can do this — it is what the IAU does. Someone has to officially bestow names, etc. It is just the way the system works." He added that quality papers published in science journals should and would continue to be part of the process of determining planet status.

Nobody can yet say how the vote will go.

"You're only left with a 'yes' or 'no' vote," Brown said. "And a 'yes' vote makes things ridiculous. A 'no' vote puts us back where we were."

Brown worried that the vast majority of astronomers at the IAU meeting work in other fields, outside planetary science. "They are likely vote 'yes' because they're not familiar with the issue and, mostly, because they're sick of the topic," he said.

Joemailman
08-16-2006, 10:17 PM
When I was just a lad, I thought that pictures of Saturn were of the earth, and the rings were the sidewalks. So I don't care what they do as long as they keep Saturn.

FavreChild
08-17-2006, 08:37 AM
Yep, everyone always wanted to do their planet project on Saturn.

So scientists are learning new information, but don't want to change our notion of the solar system? How quaint.

KYPack
08-17-2006, 10:55 AM
Nice topic, JSR.

I thought this thread was about letting in new (er mebbe old banned?) posters into the Forum!

red
08-17-2006, 12:40 PM
Yep, everyone always wanted to do their planet project on Saturn.

So scientists are learning new information, but don't want to change our notion of the solar system? How quaint.

kind of sounds like when a certain group didn't want it to admit that the world was round, or that the sun NOT the earth was the center of the universe

this is a very intersting topic, i've heard bits and pieces of it lately. i knew we could either lose pluto as a planet or gain a couple. i didn't know we would gain 3.

so does plutos moon revole around it? or does it just sit there next to it? because if it moves, why isn't it just a moon, and in that case why aren't all the other moons going to be called plutos or plutites or whatever?

jack's smirking revenge
08-17-2006, 12:41 PM
Nice topic, JSR.

I thought this thread was about letting in new (er mebbe old banned?) posters into the Forum!

Thanks KY! It was too good to pass up... :D I knew I'd get a reader or two if I took that angle. Hopefully, I suckered a poster or two into checking it out.

tyler

Chester Marcol
08-21-2006, 02:32 PM
This thread is a testimony to the maturity of PR. 5 days and not one crack about Uranus.

red
08-24-2006, 12:11 PM
well, we lost pluto

ater being called a planet for 76 years scientists today decided that its not a planet

forget everything you ever thought you knew. the solor system only has 8 planets

maybe someday we'll be told that the earth revolves around the moon, or the sky is really brown, or that the bears really don't suck.

stay tuned

Astronomers say Pluto is not a planet

Thu Aug 24, 9:49 AM ET

"PRAGUE, Czech Republic - Leading astronomers declared Thursday that Pluto is no longer a planet under historic new guidelines that downsize the solar system from nine planets to eight.
ADVERTISEMENT

After a tumultuous week of clashing over the essence of the cosmos, the International Astronomical Union stripped Pluto of the planetary status it has held since its discovery in 1930. The new definition of what is — and isn't — a planet fills a centuries-old black hole for scientists who have labored since Copernicus without one.

Although astronomers applauded after the vote, Jocelyn Bell Burnell — a specialist in neutron stars from Northern Ireland who oversaw the proceedings — urged those who might be "quite disappointed" to look on the bright side.

"It could be argued that we are creating an umbrella called 'planet' under which the dwarf planets exist," she said, drawing laughter by waving a stuffed Pluto of Walt Disney fame beneath a real umbrella.

The decision by the prestigious international group spells out the basic tests that celestial objects will have to meet before they can be considered for admission to the elite cosmic club.

For now, membership will be restricted to the eight "classical" planets in the solar system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.

Much-maligned Pluto doesn't make the grade under the new rules for a planet: "a celestial body that is in orbit around the sun, has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a ... nearly round shape, and has cleared the neighborhood around its orbit."

Pluto is automatically disqualified because its oblong orbit overlaps with Neptune's.

Instead, it will be reclassified in a new category of "dwarf planets," similar to what long have been termed "minor planets." The definition also lays out a third class of lesser objects that orbit the sun — "small solar system bodies," a term that will apply to numerous asteroids, comets and other natural satellites.

It was unclear how Pluto's demotion might affect the mission of
NASA's New Horizons spacecraft, which earlier this year began a 9 1/2-year journey to the oddball object to unearth more of its secrets.

The decision at a conference of 2,500 astronomers from 75 countries was a dramatic shift from just a week ago, when the group's leaders floated a proposal that would have reaffirmed Pluto's planetary status and made planets of its largest moon and two other objects.

That plan proved highly unpopular, splitting astronomers into factions and triggering days of sometimes combative debate that led to Pluto's undoing.

Now, two of the objects that at one point were cruising toward possible full-fledged planethood will join Pluto as dwarfs: the asteroid Ceres, which was a planet in the 1800s before it got demoted, and 2003 UB313, an icy object slightly larger than Pluto whose discoverer, Michael Brown of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena has nicknamed Xena.

Charon, the largest of Pluto's three moons, is no longer under consideration for any special designation."

Tony Oday
08-24-2006, 12:13 PM
Pluto needs to be grandfathered in! :) It will cost millions to replace all those textbooks.

jack's smirking revenge
08-24-2006, 12:34 PM
Pluto is pissed and the citizens of Pluto are preparing an invasion in response. Seems like a very angry planet to me and the Plutonians are jealous at our amount of atmosphere.

Be warned. Plutonians are on their way! They should be here in...2036.

And all we had to do was recognize their sovereign right to be a planet.

Damn elitist Earthlings! Curse you ALL!

tyler

Badgepack
08-24-2006, 12:42 PM
They are just trying to boost sales of those solar system mobiles.

the_idle_threat
08-24-2006, 01:07 PM
This sucks!!! I did a report on one of the planets in 3rd grade, and chose Pluto. Now they're going to go back and fail that project b/c it wasn't even a planet you idiot, meaning I really failed third grade, which will invalidate my H.S. diploma, invalidate my college degree, and I will get fired!

Think of the law of unintended conesquences, people!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

the_idle_threat
08-24-2006, 01:14 PM
http://www.oksda.com/images/homeless.jpg

My sign will say, "Pluto isn't a planet. Please help."