Reggie McKenzie Headed to the Bay

[pbmax]

He has been hired by the Raiders as GM according to Adam Schefter.

h/t: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/06/raiders-will-hire-reggie-mckenzie/

via: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7430468/source-oakland-raiders-hire-reggie-mckenzie-green-bay-packers-gm

[Scott Campbell]

Elliot Wolf is going with him. I think were going to get pillaged pretty good this year.

[Patler]

I have to admit, I was somewhat surprised to see it, because McKenzie talked a few months ago about waiting for the right opportunity, not just any opportunity. He even said he would be content to spend his entire career in GB if the right opportunity did not come along. Now he is leaving for a team with a hazy authority structure, a head coach who has exercised somewhat unusual power and is openly campaigning for more authority, a questionable QB situation, and virtually no draft picks in the upcoming draft.

Perhaps old loyalties are strong indeed. McKenzie was a Raider, and he may feel a drive to restore the Raiders to what they once were. I wish him well.

I think this will be a big loss for the Packers, and it may get bigger if he plucks away at the scouting talent of the Packers..

[Patler]

Elliot Wolf is going with him. I think were going to get pillaged pretty good this year.

Wolf leaving doesn't bother me at all. He is so young with such limited exposure and experience that going to another organization will be good for his development. If he continues to show talent and ability, when the Packers have a need, if they have an interest, they could always try to get him back. If they do, there will be no question about their motivation. It is the only way he will get out from under the charge of nepotism, which would have remained without a break from GB.

I think the loss of McKenzie will be felt in GB.

[Scott Campbell]

Wolf leaving doesn't bother me at all. He is so young with such limited exposure and experience that going to another organization will be good for his development. If he continues to show talent and ability, when the Packers have a need, if they have an interest, they could always try to get him back. If they do, there will be no question about their motivation. It is the only way he will get out from under the charge of nepotism, which would have remained without a break from GB.

I think the loss of McKenzie will be felt in GB.


It's really hard for me to get a feel for how much these guys brought to the team, as their work was primarily behind a curtain that we don't get to see behind. So I'm concerned more about the sheer volume of defections.

[pbmax]

Wolf leaving doesn't bother me at all. He is so young with such limited exposure and experience that going to another organization will be good for his development. If he continues to show talent and ability, when the Packers have a need, if they have an interest, they could always try to get him back. If they do, there will be no question about their motivation. It is the only way he will get out from under the charge of nepotism, which would have remained without a break from GB.

I think the loss of McKenzie will be felt in GB.


Elliot Wolf is going with him. I think were going to get pillaged pretty good this year.

Has anyone read about the Wolf link anywhere but PFT? Because PFT sometimes gets an idea in its head (Chris Polian was unqualified to be GM and was only promoted because of his father) and cannot let go regardless of circumstances.

Their original story (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/hue-jackson-ron-wolf-tug-of-war-could-be-coming-in-oakland/) mentioned Wolf and McKenzie as one reason Hue Jackson wanted a say in the pick of GM for the Raiders. But that was two leaps of logic: one, that Wolf was absolutely coming and two, that nepotism was Jackson's greatest fear. The article also mentioned that Jackson might want to be involved so that he can ensure they are likely to have a good relationship (which, unlike most of this article, makes sense).

Now Jackson might fear a McKenzie leaning lieutenant because it would further dilute his influence, but that is going to happen whether its Wolf or someone else McKenzie hires to do play personnel and the scouting department.

So I think this story has gotten a lot of play and been interpreted far more sinisterly, than is warranted by known facts.

[Patler]

It's really hard for me to get a feel for how much these guys brought to the team, as their work was primarily behind a curtain that we don't get to see behind. So I'm concerned more about the sheer volume of defections.

That certainly could become a concern. If it is only McKenzie and Wolf from the scouting area, I won't be concerned from that aspect. The Packers seem to have a knack for finding good people in that area, and this will give opportunities for further advancement of others, like Dorsey, perhaps.

[Scott Campbell]

That certainly could become a concern. If it is only McKenzie and Wolf from the scouting area, I won't be concerned from that aspect. The Packers seem to have a knack for finding good people in that area, and this will give opportunities for further advancement of others, like Dorsey, perhaps.


I read Dorsey is being pursued also. Though I suspect we'll be able to keep him.

It seems like other teams are coming after our people a lot harder this year. Maybe it's the 2 years in a row thing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

TT might not GM much longer, would have been nice to promote McKenzie

[Patler]

Has anyone read about the Wolf link anywhere but PFT? Because PFT sometimes gets an idea in its head (Chris Polian was unqualified to be GM and was only promoted because of his father) and cannot let go regardless of circumstances.

Their original story (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/hue-jackson-ron-wolf-tug-of-war-could-be-coming-in-oakland/) mentioned Wolf and McKenzie as one reason Hue Jackson wanted a say in the pick of GM for the Raiders. But that was two leaps of logic: one, that Wolf was absolutely coming and two, that nepotism was Jackson's greatest fear. The article also mentioned that Jackson might want to be involved so that he can ensure they are likely to have a good relationship (which, unlike most of this article, makes sense).

Now Jackson might fear a McKenzie leaning lieutenant because it would further dilute his influence, but that is going to happen whether its Wolf or someone else McKenzie hires to do play personnel and the scouting department.

So I think this story has gotten a lot of play and been interpreted far more sinisterly, than is warranted by known facts.

Either way, I think it would be a good thing for Wolf to leave at some point. He is so young that Green Bay (or Oakland if he indeed goes there) isn't likely to be his last stop anyway. I have no feel for the guy one way or another. If he is indeed a good evaluator, going to another organization will broaden his experience and development. He will benefit from that, as will his future employers. On the other hand, if he is where he is only because of who he is and not because of what he is, the break from GB will free the Packers from him.

[pbmax]

Given Wolf's title, he might be in line for a promotion when McKenzie leaves. He would not be the first to rise in the franchise with minimal work elsewhere.

[pbmax]

I read Dorsey is being pursued also. Though I suspect we'll be able to keep him.

It seems like other teams are coming after our people a lot harder this year. Maybe it's the 2 years in a row thing.

He turned down an interview with the Colts. And Clements just lost out to O'Brien at Penn State.

[Patler]

TT might not GM much longer, would have been nice to promote McKenzie

That's what I thought. There would be a natural succession in 5 or 6 years, and McKenzie's ability is widely proclaimed.

[ND72]

Dorsey also turned down interview with St. Louis and Chicago. ESPNChicago quoted him saying, "I have the best job with the best team, in the best city. This is my home."

[Patler]

Given Wolf's title, he might be in line for a promotion when McKenzie leaves. He would not be the first to rise in the franchise with minimal work elsewhere.

True, but many of the others in the scouting area (like McKenzie) came to the Packers with playing and/or coaching experience. Wolf has little experience of any kind other than with the Packers. College internships is about it. Broader experience should make him better and more valuable in the future. If he really is a budding GM of the future, the Packers could easily higher him back 15-20 years from now. Maybe as soon as 5-6 years from now if he really is that good.

Scouts and coaches benefit from broader experiences as they develop their own philosophies, in my opinion.

[Patler]

Dorsey also turned down interview with St. Louis and Chicago. ESPNChicago quoted him saying, "I have the best job with the best team, in the best city. This is my home."

He left GB and went to Seattle for two years with Holmgren, then resigned and came back in what some said was a lateral move at best. I remember at the time he said leaving Green Bay had been a big mistake. I am curious to see if he moves into McKenzie's spot, or if he is content to stay focused on leadership of the college scouting area.

[pbmax]

Dorsey also turned down interview with St. Louis and Chicago. ESPNChicago quoted him saying, "I have the best job with the best team, in the best city. This is my home."

Didn't know those two. Impressive enough to think he has got to be in line for a promotion.

[pbmax]

True, but many of the others in the scouting area (like McKenzie) came to the Packers with playing and/or coaching experience. Wolf has little experience of any kind other than with the Packers. College internships is about it. Broader experience should make him better and more valuable in the future. If he really is a budding GM of the future, the Packers could easily higher him back 15-20 years from now. Maybe as soon as 5-6 years from now if he really is that good.

Scouts and coaches benefit from broader experiences as they develop their own philosophies, in my opinion.

Good point. Even many of the scouts are former players like Alonzo Highsmith.

[Upnorth]

Elliot Wolf is going with him. I think were going to get pillaged pretty good this year.

Based on the qualtiy we see on the field I believe both will be large losses to the organisation. On the other hand I don't mind them going to the raiders this year for two reasons

1) AFC team
2) They dont have a draft till 2013 (pretty much).

I hope Clements doesn't go anywhere, but he deserves a shot at a HC gig because he is very good at it. I would bet money we are looking for a new OC shortly, sigh.

[Tarlam!]

Based on the qualtiy we see on the field I believe both will be large losses to the organisation. On the other hand I don't mind them going to the raiders this year for two reasons

1) AFC team
2) They dont have a draft till 2013 (pretty much).

I hope Clements doesn't go anywhere, but he deserves a shot at a HC gig because he is very good at it. I would bet money we are looking for a new OC shortly, sigh.

Agree with everything you wrote.

As an owner, I feel proud of the team we put together on and off of the field of battle. It is a great compliment to us, that our people are highly sought after!

[Smidgeon]

Wolf leaving doesn't bother me at all. He is so young with such limited exposure and experience that going to another organization will be good for his development. If he continues to show talent and ability, when the Packers have a need, if they have an interest, they could always try to get him back. If they do, there will be no question about their motivation. It is the only way he will get out from under the charge of nepotism, which would have remained without a break from GB.

I think the loss of McKenzie will be felt in GB.

I've been thinking about this too.

[RashanGary]

TT seems to be doing a fantastic job hiring excellent people. It seems like the more Thompson puts his print on this team, the better. I like our chances of getting a great couple scouting talents. They say Thompson is on the scouting circuit more than any other GM. I have a hunch he knows some bright scouts around the league waiting for a chance to work with our guy.

[Smidgeon]

Based on the qualtiy we see on the field I believe both will be large losses to the organisation. On the other hand I don't mind them going to the raiders this year for two reasons

1) AFC team
2) They dont have a draft till 2013 (pretty much).

I hope Clements doesn't go anywhere, but he deserves a shot at a HC gig because he is very good at it. I would bet money we are looking for a new OC shortly, sigh.

Clements or Philbin?

[Tarlam!]

TT seems to be doing a fantastic job hiring the right people. I don't know much about how influential this guy was, but I'm sure Ted has a star he's ready to promote and a line of scouts waiting for their chances with Green Bay.

Mckenzie has been on the payroll since '94. Not certain, but I think Wolf hired him, no?

[Lurker64]

Wolf leaving doesn't bother me at all. He is so young with such limited exposure and experience that going to another organization will be good for his development. If he continues to show talent and ability, when the Packers have a need, if they have an interest, they could always try to get him back. If they do, there will be no question about their motivation. It is the only way he will get out from under the charge of nepotism, which would have remained without a break from GB.

I think the loss of McKenzie will be felt in GB.

If the Packers had not been preparing to lose McKenzie for the last several years, I think you could constitute that as an act of negligence since he was obviously the most likely candidate to leave, as he was not going to advance any further in Green Bay (he was #2 to TT) and he was on the record as stating he would like to be a general manager. I'm pretty sure they'll be fine.

[smuggler]

I would not mind losing Philbin that much, but losing Clements would be a big blow.

[RashanGary]

I would not mind lose Philbin that much, but losing Clements would be a big blow.

You know, MM is a QB guru. Clements is a heck-of-a QB coach if you believe what the Packer say about him, but MM is even better. Young = Hungry. MM is a heck of a leader, a heck of a good judge of character and a heck of a QB coach. He's going to have his pick of the litter with both OC and QB coach. OC is going to be the more important one. Philbin was an OL guy. MM needs an OL guru.

I suspect we land one of the best OL coaches in football as our OC, and MM takes on a young, driven, creative, talented guy who's great at teaching and great at working as a team. He'll have some QB experience, maybe an ex-player or young college coach, but he's not going to be an experienced guy like Clements IMO. There aren't many of them out there who wouldn't be moving laterally here. Odds are, we're forced to go young there, but that's the spot (with AR being our guy and being ready) and MM being the HC where we can bring in a talented up and comer and maybe even get better with the new infused youthful hunger.

I like our group of guys, but from top down. . . . . TT, MM, Capers, AR. . . . . We have the long-term pieces in place (and the rapport to pick whoever we want) that gives us good odds of infusing talent and hunger. I wouldn't be shocked, just the way we're set up, if this isn't the shakeup we need to keep this team hungry enough to be the dynasty we have the potential of becoming.

Creative guys, strong guys, like MM and Holmgren can get bored. MM knows it's a major pit-fall. He's been told and has boughten in, that staying hungry after having success is the single hardest thing to do. Tutoring, teaching, growing together. . . . That doesn't get so old. I think that's the part that can keep guys loving the job. AR is close to a finished product. MM needs a new relationship where he can enjoy watching a young guy grow. IMO MM seems to love that. We could use some new, hungry coaches and new relationships to make it fun and new.

[Pugger]

Based on the qualtiy we see on the field I believe both will be large losses to the organisation. On the other hand I don't mind them going to the raiders this year for two reasons

1) AFC team
2) They dont have a draft till 2013 (pretty much).

I hope Clements doesn't go anywhere, but he deserves a shot at a HC gig because he is very good at it. I would bet money we are looking for a new OC shortly, sigh.

Maybe Clements would take that job if Philbin leaves?

[Patler]

If the Packers had not been preparing to lose McKenzie for the last several years, I think you could constitute that as an act of negligence since he was obviously the most likely candidate to leave, as he was not going to advance any further in Green Bay (he was #2 to TT) and he was on the record as stating he would like to be a general manager. I'm pretty sure they'll be fine.

Oh, I'm sure they planned for the possibility. Most businesses have succession planning. But the best laid plans don't always work (remember Harlan's planned-for successor, John Jones?) and while change is sometimes good in the long run, a period of adjustment and inefficiency often comes first.

What I really meant was that McKenzie has been there a long time, was apparently extremely well-liked and reportedly was exceptional at his job. Even if the successors are just as good, the loss of McKenzie will be felt as the necessary adjustments are made to take over all that he did. An article last fall discussed how many duties he had taken over for TT, mostly without giving up his own duties to someone else. That doesn't mean he is irreplaceable, but it might take some time to getting operating as smoothly.

I think his departure will have greater impact than when Schneider left a couple years ago.

[RashanGary]

An article last fall discussed how many duties he had taken over for TT, mostly without giving up his own duties to someone else. That doesn't mean he is irreplaceable, but it might take some time to getting operating as smoothly.

I think his departure will have greater impact than when Schneider left a couple years ago.

This does make sense. A counter-point I have is that TT seems like an open-minded guy. Some of his moves are absolute shockers. Russ Ball wasn't a shocker, but getting rid of our experienced cap guy was. Ball turned out to be gold for us, based on what they say about his leadership, work ethic and job performance. MM was a true shocker. He's been gold. The Favre thing was a shocker. Again, gold. Javon Walker, gold. Ryan Grant, gold. AR, gold. Everytime we've needed something that seemed irreplacable, TT has struck gold.

I wouldn't doubt if there's some young scout on the Packers pay-roll who's just a superstar or if there's a young star on some other team that Ted sees all the time on the road who Ted's just itching to give a big-time job to. It wouldn't shock me if the guy who takes over for McKenzie is young, less experienced than your typical #2, but completely over the top talented as a scout. I certainly don't doubt McKenzie's abilities, but boy, I have even more confidence in Thompson hiring a fuckin superstar to replace him and not just going with status quo, next guy up type thing.

Losing both guys is certainly tougher, especially since it was two years in a row and our two top guys. I could see it being a real challenge. A lot of the college scouting has been done already. TT will have an offseason to bring someone up to speed. It's going to be a challenge, bigger than losing just the one, but there's a culture and timing to what is happening in GB that's a train rolling down the tracks, full speed. It's a fine tuned machine, with leaders at every important spot.

And Mark Murphy is a heck of a leader too, who puts football first. If there are organizational things that need to be taken over, Murphy aspired to be a GM. I wouldn't doubt if he came down and helped with just the leadership part so Ted could stay on the road doing what he does. Presidents are there to keep the business thriving, but Murphy knows that football success is by far the #1 factor in making money. They are so dedicated to the football part of the business, I see a full out effort, an organized effort, by some of the most qualified, driven people in football to make this thing work. The Packers really are set up about as well as a business can be, IMO.

[ND72]

I've honestly always questioned how much "pull" philbin really has in GB. I think McCarthy has that offense wrapped tightly around his fingers. Not saying Philbin didn't do anything, I'm sure he has plenty of input, and McCarthy seems pretty genuine in wanting input and creativity from his staff.

I wonder if he looks to Clements or even Edgar Bennett as the next OC. I still wonder why Bennett became the WR coach from his money maker as RB coach. I say Bennett takes over OC, they convince Driver to be the WR Coach next year. :)

[woodbuck27]

Thanks for this information. A good read.

GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Schneider was a plus one when he got rehired a couple of years ago. They took him back but he mainly worked on special projects, so McKenzie leaving will definitely be felt more deeply.

[King Friday]

Just remember, whoever leaves is likely to be replaced by someone up and coming with a lot of promise. If you are on the personnel side of things, Green Bay is an ideal spot to further build your career. I don't think the loss of McKenzie will be that harmful at all...with Thompson probably 3-5 years away from considering retirement, finding a capable #2 won't be that difficult when your team is the reigning champion and doesn't have an intrusive owner constantly looking over everyone's shoulder.

Whoever gets that spot now is the #1 candidate to replace TT. I doubt finding a quality guy will be all that difficult.

[Tarlam!]

Maybe Clements would take that job if Philbin leaves?

This seems both logical and highly plausible considering the Packers' penchant for promoting from within. From what I can gather, it also makes the most sense, because M3 is not going to relinquish play calling duties in a hurry, nor will he change the scheme.

Serving the Packers at OC is a thankless position, because M3 gets all the credit. None of us are close enough to really grasp the contribution made by Philbin. I guess that is why we fans are nonchalant about his possible departure. Accordingly, we heap praise on Clement, because we "see" how well he's coaching the QBs, or at leats, that's our perception. We would all wish him well, but the sense of loss would be far greater.

[Tarlam!]

Not really worthy of its own thread, but worth mentioning:


Packers VP Wied resigns, calling health 'a real concern'

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- Green Bay Packers vice president Jason Wied resigned Friday, citing his addiction to an herbal remedy he was using to treat sleep-related health issues.

Wied, the Packers' vice president of administration/general counsel, took an indefinite leave of absence from the team in November. In a statement issued Friday by the Packers, Wied says he has been dealing with sleep apnea and insomnia.

"This was a difficult decision but the right one for me," Wied said. "I've had some health issues, including sleep apnea and insomnia, for the last couple of years and have tried many treatments, herbal remedies and medications. Recently I developed a dependency on one of the herbal remedies that had been suggested and my long-term health became a real concern."

Wied said he entered a treatment center Nov. 7, with the support of his family and the team.

"While there I realized that I needed to make some changes and some tough choices -- and I feel that moving on from my employment with the Packers will allow me to make the changes I need in my life right now," Wied said.

Wied, a Green Bay native, has played a critical role in the team's recent plans to expand Lambeau Field.

"Jason has been an integral part of the success the Packers organization has enjoyed over the past decade," Packers president and CEO Mark Murphy said. "He has served in key roles for the Packers on many projects, including the 2003 redevelopment of Lambeau Field and the current expansion to the stadium, as well as the development and construction of Ray Nitschke Field, the team's training camp practice facility."

Wied initially joined the Packers in 2000 as staff counsel and was named vice president of administration/corporate counsel in 2007 before being promoted to vice president of administration/general counsel in 2008.

"I consider myself fortunate to have worked here for 11 years," Wied said. "I'm very proud of what we accomplished and look forward to the continued success of the Packers on and off the field. As a fan and shareholder, I'll continue to cheer the Packers on every Sunday with my family by my side."

Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press

[pbmax]

That statement by Wied has the feel of a deep rationalization rather than a simple truth.

I wonder if everyone leaving the Packers, beside those advancing careers, will be doing so for health related reasons.

[George Cumby]

Wolf leaving doesn't bother me at all. He is so young with such limited exposure and experience that going to another organization will be good for his development. If he continues to show talent and ability, when the Packers have a need, if they have an interest, they could always try to get him back. If they do, there will be no question about their motivation. It is the only way he will get out from under the charge of nepotism, which would have remained without a break from GB.

I think the loss of McKenzie will be felt in GB.

I disagree, slightly, with the assertion that young Eliot is inexperienced. IIRC he's been watching film since he was a child with his dad as his teacher.

I do agree that his experience lacks breadth.

I do agree that losing McKenzie will hurt. But if it was obvious to us fans that this day was going to come, upper management must have known and been grooming his replacement.

[Upnorth]

Maybe Clements would take that job if Philbin leaves?

I never thought of this possibility, just assumed both would be gone. Clements will bring an ariel attack to what ever
Team he coaches for. Thinking about getting a first down in 2 downs instead of 3 for so many years is one of the reasons Arod has a high ypa in my opinion. I would love to see him be our OC, as would any team with a good qb.

[sheepshead]

Personally, I think John Dorsey leaving would be a bigger deal, but that's just a hunch. I too have no way of knowing what a loss McKensie is.

[pbmax]

I knew PFT was barking up the wrong tree.

https://twitter.com/#!/BobMcGinn/status/155375396190298112

BobMcGinn Bob McGinn

The #Packers have lost R. McKenzie to #Raiders but ascending scout Eliot Wolf isn't going anywhere. Wolf likely to be next head of pro dept.

22 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[pbmax]

And this: https://twitter.com/#!/BobMcGinn/status/155375747517792256

BobMcGinn Bob McGinn

Ron Wolf and Ken Herock didn't interview Reggie McKenzie in Oakland Wed. The interview was conducted by Mark Davis and John Madden.

22 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Perhaps Mark Davis knows his limitations and makes smart decisions about how to proceed. If so, Jackson might get a true vote of confidence/shot contract extension after McKenzie gets to watch some tape and talk to him, then McKenzie can take over the HC oversight.

[Smidgeon]

And this: https://twitter.com/#!/BobMcGinn/status/155375747517792256

BobMcGinn Bob McGinn

Ron Wolf and Ken Herock didn't interview Reggie McKenzie in Oakland Wed. The interview was conducted by Mark Davis and John Madden.

22 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Perhaps Mark Davis knows his limitations and makes smart decisions about how to proceed. If so, Jackson might get a true vote of confidence/shot contract extension after McKenzie gets to watch some tape and talk to him, then McKenzie can take over the HC oversight.

PFT's already reporting McKenzie has head coach firing power and also reports speculation (not their own) that McKenzie might poach Winston Moss.