OG Competition

[HarveyWallbangers]

I hate this line:


"We wanted to create a lot of competition in that offensive line as with the other positions and we think we're pretty close to getting a lot of competition there. We'll see how it works out. Nothing is really set in stone there."

Creating competition is one thing, but it has to be competition among quality players. If you have five guys that stink equally, that's competition, but what good does it do you. I'd rather have 2 great players who stand out and 3 crappy guys.

*****

Packers notes: Spitz, Moll still starters
By Jason Wilde, Wisconsin State Journal

GREEN BAY - They're still avoiding the dreaded "D" word - demotion - but whatever euphemism the Green Bay Packers' braintrust wants to use, the reality was this Tuesday:

The offensive line shuffle that occurred Monday in the wake of a disastrous preseason opener was not a one-day experiment.

For the second straight day, the No. 1 guards were third-round pick Jason Spitz on the left side and fifth-round pick Tony Moll on the right. Daryn Colledge, a second-round pick who'd been the starter at left guard from the first snap of the post-draft minicamp, remained with the second unit.

Not that Colledge had been demoted or anything.

"I don't know if you'd necessarily consider it a demotion as much as we're just trying to get the right mix right now," general manager Ted Thompson said. "Daryn is going to be a fine football player for the Packers for years to come. Whether he's a starter opening day, that's still to be determined.

"We wanted to create a lot of competition in that offensive line as with the other positions and we think we're pretty close to getting a lot of competition there. We'll see how it works out. Nothing is really set in stone there."

Maybe not, but after playing musical chairs at guard last year, Thompson admitted that the starting five needs to be decided soon so some cohesion can be established.

"We kind of want to get this thing set pretty quick and try some different combinations," Thompson said, adding that versatility is important because only seven offensive linemen dress on game days.

"This way, we'll have guys who have lined up at different spots. (But) we have to get this thing set pretty soon."

Coach Mike McCarthy admitted after Tuesday night's practice that there was a "danger" is shaking up the line this far into camp, but vowed to have the line set soon.

"By no means am I looking to go into Week 4 of the preseason not knowing who my line is," McCarthy said. "We're going to gather the information this week and hopefully we'll have a decision next week."

[Packnut]

The O line is giving me a freaking ulcer!

[pittstang5]

After watching the game against SD, I'm really bummed about this line. I thought they could at least look serviceable. Now there moving Moll to RG and Spitz to LG. Colledge is now 2nd string. Was Colledge that bad that he's demoted. I didn't even think Moll was going to make the team.

I know alot of people think it may just be temporary to give Colledge some incentive, but Moll....are you kidding me? What's he going to do against the Shaun boys or the Williams boys? He'll be eaten alive.

I'm looking for Mookie Moore to crack the starting lineup...at least he's familiar with the scheme and has some experience. Granted it's not alot, but it's more than what Colledge, Spitz and Moll have.

[woodbuck27]

Wana bad joke? Well here it comes. Nawww.

Maybe we can just do what Belichick does.

Always keep bringing players in for tryouts and upgrade - upgrade as the season progress's?

Packers ! FAITH !!

[Willard]

What happend to Orange Junius? He was penciled in as a starting guard all offseason. He supposedly has the ideal size and athleticism for the ZBS, and now he isn't even in the picture at OG during this shuffling? It makes me think we have been handed a pile of horsepoo by the coaches and their false optimism regarding these players!

[MJZiggy]

Maybe they meant it 'til they saw that great play "in their underwear" (I love M3 if only for that one phrase) meant diddly when he got in a game... :cool: Either that or they heard his wife on the sideline sitting behind Nutz and she was so annoying they demoted him. :shock: :wink: (of course I'm kidding!)

[Bretsky]

What happend to Orange Junius? He was penciled in as a starting guard all offseason. He supposedly has the ideal size and athleticism for the ZBS, and now he isn't even in the picture at OG during this shuffling? It makes me think we have been handed a pile of horsepoo by the coaches and their false optimism regarding these players!

Coston Stinks just as bad as last year

TT has left this team bare of quality starters on the OL this year. Depth ? We don't need depth; we need five competent starters before we can complain about depth.

[retailguy]

Coston Stinks just as bad as last year

TT has left this team bare of quality starters on the OL this year. Depth ? We don't need depth; we need five competent starters before we can complain about depth.


EEYORE! STOP! Please stop! :mrgreen:

It can't be that bad.... I'm having flashbacks to 2005, when you said the same thing. Then I said the same thing.... Eeyore (smile, ok?) - The line will be OK this year, in about week 9. Until then, hold your breath and pray that Favre survives....

These guys have got to play before we judge them. Jags had way too much optimism. He got an education. Moreso than any player, IMO. He was talking like he could pull 5 guys out of the stands and turn them into blockers.... He has some work to do, doesn't he?

[Willard]

IS Jags delusional or do we really need to be more patient? I'll admit it, I am really starting to think our OL stinks like bad milk, but Jags has seen it before. I posted the following on a different thread, but it warrants a re-read (from PackersNews.com):

Jagodzinski said Saturday night was similar to his first exhibition game with Atlanta in 2004, when the Falcons' new coaching staff also was putting in the same Alex Gibbs zone-blocking scheme the Packers are implementing now. In the first exhibition game for coach Jim Mora and his staff in '04, also against a 3-4 defensive scheme facing the Baltimore Ravens, the Falcons had a disastrous offensive performance. They gained 134 yards in total offense, averaged 2.6 yards a carry, had only eight first downs and lost 24-0.

The Packers on Saturday gained 218 yards in total offense, averaged 2.4 yards a carry, had 11 first downs and lost 17-3.

Atlanta that season ended up winning its division, advancing to the NFC championship game and leading the NFL in rushing. The parallel only goes so far, because Atlanta had the singular running talent of quarterback Mike Vick to fall back on that season. But Jagodzinski has seen this debut dynamic before.

"It's discouraging, but you keep getting better," he said. "That's what we're going to do here."

I'm sure the Falcons were very disappointed after that first pre-season blow-out, but they got it figured out in time to have a good season. Lets look for continuous improvement against ATL & CIN. If we don't see serious progress by that point then I'll start to mentally prepare for a long depressing season.

[Bretsky]

Coston Stinks just as bad as last year

TT has left this team bare of quality starters on the OL this year. Depth ? We don't need depth; we need five competent starters before we can complain about depth.


EEYORE! STOP! Please stop! :mrgreen:

It can't be that bad.... I'm having flashbacks to 2005, when you said the same thing. Then I said the same thing.... Eeyore (smile, ok?) - The line will be OK this year, in about week 9. Until then, hold your breath and pray that Favre survives....

These guys have got to play before we judge them. Jags had way too much optimism. He got an education. Moreso than any player, IMO. He was talking like he could pull 5 guys out of the stands and turn them into blockers.... He has some work to do, doesn't he?

I DID SAY THE SAME THING IN 2005, and unfortunately I was right; if I have unlimited views I'm bound to hit on a few :wink: .

But it's worse this year. TT had 35MIL; it's inexcusable not to bring in veteran help IMO if he wants to maximize success this year. Do we really think the OL can hold up against seasoned vets with two Rookies and One First Year Player ?

I hope I'm wrong in 2006.

[MJZiggy]

I'm going to hear the words 35 Mil until someone giving me that much cash would have to take a dollar back, just so I could call it 34.9 million, aren't I? I don't think anyone here really needs reminding of this amount. We all know what we started with, but there was a philosophical choice made about what to do with this money. We got a dozen draft picks, a bunch of front loaded contracts that don't cost anything to dump and we didn't sign Bentley or Arrington. Let's see what the kids do before we shit in their Wheaties.

[Bretsky]

Well I could use 7 Million for the amount of unused cap space, but that's just as depressing to me.

I don't buy the it's just one game so don't worry views.

It was just one game for SD; it was just one game for their DL as it was for our OL.

But we got our arse kicked around; hopefully it'll go better this week.

[BooHoo]

The O Line is our biggest challenge. I am also surprised that we didn't try to bring in many FAs.

[retailguy]

But it's worse this year. TT had 35MIL; it's inexcusable not to bring in veteran help IMO if he wants to maximize success this year. Do we really think the OL can hold up against seasoned vets with two Rookies and One First Year Player ?

I hope I'm wrong in 2006.


Not sure that it is worse. The expectations are lower, and the scheme is different. I keep hearing Jags say that it's not that tough. I don't see the need for guards to pull, so I wonder if he's right.

I do think it is a bit optimistic to think that they'd play well in their first game, but I did expect better results than we got.

Willard's quote is encouraging, but it makes me wonder if it is "damage control".

I predict a solid cohesive unit by week 9. While I realize that depresses the hell out of you, I don't think it'd be a lot different with some veterans in there. Not bringing them in was the right decision in my view. We ain't going to the superbowl, Toto. We just need to get these guys some playing experience.

[Murphy37]

It almost seems like most of you are surprised by the piss poor performance of the O-line in the first pre season game. Why? Didn't most of us agree that the O-line was the biggest question mark going into this season? I for one went on at least 10 drunken rants about our need to fix the problem during the offseason, above everything else. Now, the problem was certainly addressed in the draft, which is good. It was not even blinked at however, in free agency. So how can we be suprised that two rookie guards didn't perform well in their first live action against an unfamaliar foe? I was dissapointed, but definitly not surprised. Now, as many of you have said, it is very early. Give the kids some patience....it was their first time. How good were you your first time?

[retailguy]

How good were you your first time?

I was PERFECT, and I paid her off to agree with me Murphy. You know better than that. :wink:

[Murphy37]

How good were you your first time?

I was PERFECT, and I paid her off to agree with me Murphy. You know better than that. :wink:

I'm great every time, as long as I'm in the room by myself.

[Bretsky]

But it's worse this year. TT had 35MIL; it's inexcusable not to bring in veteran help IMO if he wants to maximize success this year. Do we really think the OL can hold up against seasoned vets with two Rookies and One First Year Player ?

I hope I'm wrong in 2006.


Not sure that it is worse. The expectations are lower, and the scheme is different. I keep hearing Jags say that it's not that tough. I don't see the need for guards to pull, so I wonder if he's right.

I do think it is a bit optimistic to think that they'd play well in their first game, but I did expect better results than we got.

Willard's quote is encouraging, but it makes me wonder if it is "damage control".

I predict a solid cohesive unit by week 9. While I realize that depresses the hell out of you, I don't think it'd be a lot different with some veterans in there. Not bringing them in was the right decision in my view. We ain't going to the superbowl, Toto. We just need to get these guys some playing experience.

You are right; it does depress the hell out of me; we have an easy start to the season and need to start fast. I understand that we aren't going to the Super Bowl, but with good moves I still could have seen 8-10 moves. But these games can't be won w/o an adequate OL. Your logic depresses me more; you are the Kool Aide guy and you sound like you are throwing in the season. I predicted 7-9 a few weeks ago; now I look at that pick and think I was a frickin idiot.

B

[MJZiggy]

Maybe two weeks from now you'll look at your last post and think the very same thing.

[Bretsky]

I sure hope so; truth be told I've had concerns about our OL for a while now.

The article I sent for you to edit expresses that.

Good thing I wrote it already; right now I'd put more of a negative spin on it.

[Joemailman]

I look for Colledge to play better this week. Sometime next week, he will be inserted back on to the 1st team. This OL will be a work in progress. I do think that whoever we line up at Guard will be better than Klemm/Whitticker were last year.

[4and12to12and4]

I think we all need to recollect something ... something overlooked in this thread ... something essential regarding our o-line ... something that all of us who watched and rewatched and rewatched Saturday's game came to the conclusion of ...


The guards play against the Chargers was not that great, however, Clifton and Tauscher had very subpar games, and they and the RB's were mostly at fault in the plays that are etched in our memorys from Saturday. The plays in which our QB's were sacked and running for their lives. Henderson, Clifton, and Taushcer, and Coston were literally thrown backwards a few times. And those plays were the ones that ended up with the worst results.

We all KNOW that Clifton, Tauscher, and Hendo are actually very good at their respective positions. Right?

So, what am I getting at? Well, it seems to me that if MM and TT saw this, they would have to come to the conclusion that LEARNING THIS NEW SYSTEM OF BLOCKING is as much, if not more to blame for the o-lines failure than the amount of talent we have at X position. Are you still with me here? I mean, if not, then explain to me why these very good experienced players had just as bad a game as the rookies.

So, with this train of thought, is it really that big of a deal that they just want to give Moll his fair shake Saturday? Both these guys are rookies so why not see what Moll can do out there. Colledge didn't do anything extraordinary to solidify the position, so maybe they just want to see what they have in Tony, before rushing to judgement that Colledge will fare better. But, I find it hard to believe that they suddenly think that Colledge CANNOT perform at left guard. How could they possibly come to that conclusion when our tackles and Hendo were less than impressive also.

I might be way off here, but I don't think this is the coaches giving up on Colledge, I think it is just a natural progression of preseason. Also, I thought that Spitz was more impressive than Colledge, so it makes sense to move him to left guard. Maybe this was the first thing they discussed, and then thought, well hell, if we are switching our left guard to right and right guard to left, why not throw Moll in there to see what he's got while we're at it?

One thing that IS a fact. NOBODY on that line played well, and as backwards as this may sound, that actually makes me feel good about the situation, becuase we know our tackles can play, so how can we dis the guards without dissing them too. I think we are in better shape than it looked Saturday.

[retailguy]

You are right; it does depress the hell out of me; we have an easy start to the season and need to start fast. I understand that we aren't going to the Super Bowl, but with good moves I still could have seen 8-10 moves. But these games can't be won w/o an adequate OL. Your logic depresses me more; you are the Kool Aide guy and you sound like you are throwing in the season. I predicted 7-9 a few weeks ago; now I look at that pick and think I was a frickin idiot.

B

Throwing the season? Heck no. But, I don't think it is realistic to predict we'll start fast with two rookie guards. But, maybe, it'll only be one rookie guard.

I, right now, don't have high expectations. Remember, I predicted 6-10. Just don't see how we can get a fast start.... That's Tank talk and even he isn't here predicting that. Maybe we can get Tex in here to predict 16-0....

I have earned my title as "kool-aid" guy, just ask Vic, to whom my total legacy is dedicated.....

Week 9 is an optimistic prediction for a solid OL, it should take a season, OR MORE...

[4and12to12and4]

Am I missing something obvious here? I don't get the Kool-aid thing.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe they meant it 'til they saw that great play "in their underwear" (I love M3 if only for that one phrase) meant diddly when he got in a game... :cool: Either that or they heard his wife on the sideline sitting behind Nutz and she was so annoying they demoted him. :shock: :wink: (of course I'm kidding!)

That's the lesson. Don't piss Deputy Nutz off !!

He's a Packer Insider. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH !!

[woodbuck27]

" Jags had way too much optimism. He got an education. Moreso than any player, IMO. He was talking like he could pull 5 guys out of the stands and turn them into blockers.... " retailguy

Whhhhhheeeeuuuu !

Then . . . there's still hope.

[woodbuck27]

What happend to Orange Junius? He was penciled in as a starting guard all offseason. He supposedly has the ideal size and athleticism for the ZBS, and now he isn't even in the picture at OG during this shuffling? It makes me think we have been handed a pile of horsepoo by the coaches and their false optimism regarding these players!

Coston Stinks just as bad as last year

TT has left this team bare of quality starters on the OL this year. Depth ? We don't need depth; we need five competent starters before we can complain about depth.

That sounds like a Mora-ism. :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

Coston Stinks just as bad as last year

TT has left this team bare of quality starters on the OL this year. Depth ? We don't need depth; we need five competent starters before we can complain about depth.


EEYORE! STOP! Please stop! :mrgreen:

It can't be that bad.... I'm having flashbacks to 2005, when you said the same thing. Then I said the same thing.... Eeyore (smile, ok?) - The line will be OK this year, in about week 9. Until then, hold your breath and pray that Favre survives....

These guys have got to play before we judge them. Jags had way too much optimism. He got an education. Moreso than any player, IMO. He was talking like he could pull 5 guys out of the stands and turn them into blockers.... He has some work to do, doesn't he?

I DID SAY THE SAME THING IN 2005, and unfortunately I was right; if I have unlimited views I'm bound to hit on a few :wink: .

But it's worse this year. TT had 35MIL; it's inexcusable not to bring in veteran help IMO if he wants to maximize success this year. Do we really think the OL can hold up against seasoned vets with two Rookies and One First Year Player ?

I hope I'm wrong in 2006.

" I hope I'm wrong in 2006 " B.

Ahhhhhh ??? I hope I win the Lotto 6-49. :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

It almost seems like most of you are surprised by the piss poor performance of the O-line in the first pre season game. Why? Didn't most of us agree that the O-line was the biggest question mark going into this season? I for one went on at least 10 drunken rants about our need to fix the problem during the offseason, above everything else. Now, the problem was certainly addressed in the draft, which is good. It was not even blinked at however, in free agency. So how can we be suprised that two rookie guards didn't perform well in their first live action against an unfamaliar foe? I was dissapointed, but definitly not surprised. Now, as many of you have said, it is very early. Give the kids some patience....it was their first time. How good were you your first time?

Disappointing . . . but least, I was EXPLOSIVE !! :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

I think we all need to recollect something ... something overlooked in this thread ... something essential regarding our o-line ... something that all of us who watched and rewatched and rewatched Saturday's game came to the conclusion of ...


The guards play against the Chargers was not that great, however, Clifton and Tauscher had very subpar games, and they and the RB's were mostly at fault in the plays that are etched in our memorys from Saturday. The plays in which our QB's were sacked and running for their lives. Henderson, Clifton, and Taushcer, and Coston were literally thrown backwards a few times. And those plays were the ones that ended up with the worst results.

We all KNOW that Clifton, Tauscher, and Hendo are actually very good at their respective positions. Right?

So, what am I getting at? Well, it seems to me that if MM and TT saw this, they would have to come to the conclusion that LEARNING THIS NEW SYSTEM OF BLOCKING is as much, if not more to blame for the o-lines failure than the amount of talent we have at X position. Are you still with me here? I mean, if not, then explain to me why these very good experienced players had just as bad a game as the rookies.

So, with this train of thought, is it really that big of a deal that they just want to give Moll his fair shake Saturday? Both these guys are rookies so why not see what Moll can do out there. Colledge didn't do anything extraordinary to solidify the position, so maybe they just want to see what they have in Tony, before rushing to judgement that Colledge will fare better. But, I find it hard to believe that they suddenly think that Colledge CANNOT perform at left guard. How could they possibly come to that conclusion when our tackles and Hendo were less than impressive also.

I might be way off here, but I don't think this is the coaches giving up on Colledge, I think it is just a natural progression of preseason. Also, I thought that Spitz was more impressive than Colledge, so it makes sense to move him to left guard. Maybe this was the first thing they discussed, and then thought, well hell, if we are switching our left guard to right and right guard to left, why not throw Moll in there to see what he's got while we're at it?

One thing that IS a fact. NOBODY on that line played well, and as backwards as this may sound, that actually makes me feel good about the situation, becuase we know our tackles can play, so how can we dis the guards without dissing them too. I think we are in better shape than it looked Saturday.

My Response:

That logic is impressive. It was one frigin' Ex game, that certainly was sobering for OUR Coaching staff. I like that Mike McCarthy held himself accountable, and obviously we now see the juggling act in TC as we prepare for " the Falcons".

Movement on OUR OL

It's to see how versatile OUR Offensive Lineman are, because the heat is on to arrive at the starting five. What does Mike McCarthy have to choose from, but what is supplied. If that isn't what he needs, then other PRO's will arrive for a look. We are seeing that this week in OUR secondary.

I felt it a bit strange that one of OUR most experienced and versatile Olineman Wayne Losier was tossed, but in a week we'll forget his name. Maybe, some here won't?

Mike McCarthy and his staff will tinker as needed, but we'll not be as bad as we were Vs. the Chargers, or we will see a quick exit of OUR team from anythig approaching a playoff berth. That's a fact Ladies and Gents.

Brett Favre told us today. It will improve and he said he believes it will. That confidence did a ton for me. He also said: It has to.

Will it be enough for us to win 7-8-9 games?

I really have my doubts of that today. I have adjusted my prediction of a
7-9 season, to one of:

Win one game (hopefully defeat the Bears) and with Brett Favre in there don't bet that we don't win that first game. But we must win a game early, and then win another and grow as a Team as the season progress's.

This season will not end in a playoff berth for us in all liklihood - because of OUR OL. It's inexperienced, in a new ZBS that the whole Offense has to learn to win with.

Secondly.

We have nearly a whole turnover in OUR Coaching staff, that will not predicate a winning season. It's called " the learning curve ", with a relitively young and inexperience team after the starters. We have no depth of experience at winning - after OUR Vet players.

Green - Favre - Driver - Franks - Henderson - Clifton -Tauscher.

If FA's Woodson - Pickett - Allen - Manuel - Gardner - Boerigter, step up and act like PRO's - who knows? Do FA's customarily do that? The good one's do!

I have questions regarding Favre's real status on OUR team. Who's #1? Favre or Aaron Rodgers? I am being real here.

We have questions at RB (injuries to recover from, on behalf of Green,Davenport and Gado), but go direct to the OL for the real question.

We have questions in OUR passing game, with the strong feeling among fans here, that the #2WR is a Rookie - Greg Jennings. What does that say to you about Robert Ferguson and Rod Gardner - Marc Boerigter?

What is this BIG role that OUR TE's will play in 2006? Where has Bubba Franks been? Donald Lee? David Martin (injury history)!!

How come - Vet's like William Henderson and Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher are not playing as we have seen? By all reports, they played badly Vs. "the Chargers" and who expected that here? Why was that? Too many people thinking way too hard??

OUR DEFENSE

Has the Defense improved?

Well, yes on paper it appears to have improved, but we lost an outstanding Defensive Co-Ordinator in Jim Bates. That man worked his tail off for us last season, and his past came to the Packers successfully and well. . . that leadership, that FIRE is GONE !!!!

LINEBACKER

We will have to work two Rookies and a FA ( Ben Taylor) into the linebacking core. Is Nick Barnett really at ease? Many may say, so what, but that's just one - more - thing to be a concern. I believe we need Abdul hodge contributing where he can best do that but is he really ready yet? He will be ! Abdul Hodge will be a GEM for us but maybe not in 2006.

SAFETY

Mark Roman was fired, and then arguably OUR best safety in TC (Marviel Underwood) is lost for the season. Yikes !!

Will Nick Collins suffer the sophomore jinx? Will Marquand Manual catch up to real health and play the season at 100% of his ability?

All that remains is inexperience at that position (Tra Boger - Tyrone Culver -Atari Bigby and Oh Yea! - Jeremy Modkins). Is that encouraging?

CORNERBACK

At CB - we are seeing an out of shape Al Harris (is he possibly aging?). Does anyone really believe that Charles Woodson is what he was? Ahmad Carroll hasn't shown us any growth in his game to date this Off Season. Then were left with inexperienced CB's, that can't seem to stay healthy - in Jason Horton, Michael Hawkins, Patrick Dendy and Oh Yea ( the new fella back there ) - Jeremy Modkins.

SAVING "the BEST" - The DL

I believe OUR DL has stood in there to date. They have to push against the run. They have to penetrate the oppositions backfield and we need pressure on the other teams QB. Attack the pass at the point of origin.Yet there's Allen and Pickett getting injured Vs. the Chargers and has Ryan Pickett's head really been in OUR game since he was acquired? Still the DL did well against the Chargers as the game progressed. They had two 18 play series's for a TD and a FG. They didn't exactly overrun us.

Packer fans. It's about too many questions.

We are merely Packer fans. Sometimes we are the messengers.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH !!

[HarveyWallbangers]

It almost seems like most of you are surprised by the piss poor performance of the O-line in the first pre season game. Why? Didn't most of us agree that the O-line was the biggest question mark going into this season? I for one went on at least 10 drunken rants about our need to fix the problem during the offseason, above everything else. Now, the problem was certainly addressed in the draft, which is good. It was not even blinked at however, in free agency. So how can we be suprised that two rookie guards didn't perform well in their first live action against an unfamaliar foe? I was dissapointed, but definitly not surprised. Now, as many of you have said, it is very early. Give the kids some patience....it was their first time. How good were you your first time?

Good point. What's discouraging to me though is that apparently the coaches expected more and have been willing to bench Daryn Colledge already. Now, Moll sounds like he's playing so bad that Colledge will be gifted the job back, but I would expect a coaching staff who expected growing pains wouldn't have benched him so quick.

[woodbuck27]

It almost seems like most of you are surprised by the piss poor performance of the O-line in the first pre season game. Why? Didn't most of us agree that the O-line was the biggest question mark going into this season? I for one went on at least 10 drunken rants about our need to fix the problem during the offseason, above everything else. Now, the problem was certainly addressed in the draft, which is good. It was not even blinked at however, in free agency. So how can we be suprised that two rookie guards didn't perform well in their first live action against an unfamaliar foe? I was dissapointed, but definitly not surprised. Now, as many of you have said, it is very early. Give the kids some patience....it was their first time. How good were you your first time?

Good point. What's discouraging to me though is that apparently the coaches expected more and have been willing to bench Daryn Colledge already. Now, Moll sounds like he's playing so bad that Colledge will be gifted the job back, but I would expect a coaching staff who expected growing pains wouldn't have benched him so quick.

Three reasons:

A wake up call for Colledge. To test MOLL's REAL progress, and look for depth on the OL with what is available.

[Bretsky]

It almost seems like most of you are surprised by the piss poor performance of the O-line in the first pre season game. Why? Didn't most of us agree that the O-line was the biggest question mark going into this season? I for one went on at least 10 drunken rants about our need to fix the problem during the offseason, above everything else. Now, the problem was certainly addressed in the draft, which is good. It was not even blinked at however, in free agency. So how can we be suprised that two rookie guards didn't perform well in their first live action against an unfamaliar foe? I was dissapointed, but definitly not surprised. Now, as many of you have said, it is very early. Give the kids some patience....it was their first time. How good were you your first time?

Good point. What's discouraging to me though is that apparently the coaches expected more and have been willing to bench Daryn Colledge already. Now, Moll sounds like he's playing so bad that Colledge will be gifted the job back, but I would expect a coaching staff who expected growing pains wouldn't have benched him so quick.

Three reasons:

A wake up call for Colledge. To test MOLL's REAL progress, and look for depth on the OL with what is available.

GOT BAD NEWS

We have to have starters before we look for depth.


Cheers,
B

[BooHoo]

I think we all need to recollect something ... something overlooked in this thread ... something essential regarding our o-line ... something that all of us who watched and rewatched and rewatched Saturday's game came to the conclusion of ...


The guards play against the Chargers was not that great, however, Clifton and Tauscher had very subpar games, and they and the RB's were mostly at fault in the plays that are etched in our memorys from Saturday. The plays in which our QB's were sacked and running for their lives. Henderson, Clifton, and Taushcer, and Coston were literally thrown backwards a few times. And those plays were the ones that ended up with the worst results.

We all KNOW that Clifton, Tauscher, and Hendo are actually very good at their respective positions. Right?

So, what am I getting at? Well, it seems to me that if MM and TT saw this, they would have to come to the conclusion that LEARNING THIS NEW SYSTEM OF BLOCKING is as much, if not more to blame for the o-lines failure than the amount of talent we have at X position. Are you still with me here? I mean, if not, then explain to me why these very good experienced players had just as bad a game as the rookies.

So, with this train of thought, is it really that big of a deal that they just want to give Moll his fair shake Saturday? Both these guys are rookies so why not see what Moll can do out there. Colledge didn't do anything extraordinary to solidify the position, so maybe they just want to see what they have in Tony, before rushing to judgement that Colledge will fare better. But, I find it hard to believe that they suddenly think that Colledge CANNOT perform at left guard. How could they possibly come to that conclusion when our tackles and Hendo were less than impressive also.

I might be way off here, but I don't think this is the coaches giving up on Colledge, I think it is just a natural progression of preseason. Also, I thought that Spitz was more impressive than Colledge, so it makes sense to move him to left guard. Maybe this was the first thing they discussed, and then thought, well hell, if we are switching our left guard to right and right guard to left, why not throw Moll in there to see what he's got while we're at it?

One thing that IS a fact. NOBODY on that line played well, and as backwards as this may sound, that actually makes me feel good about the situation, becuase we know our tackles can play, so how can we dis the guards without dissing them too. I think we are in better shape than it looked Saturday.

Some very good points. I guess even good veterans have problems learning a new system. This is only the first game so we don't have to cut our throats. More time for the team to learn the system.