The Systematic Bleeding Off Of D-Line Talent

[Scott Campbell]

Corey Williams
Colin Cole
Johnny Jolly
Cullen Jenkins


Our guys can tackle ball carriers pretty well, but we've lost a lot of pass rush talent over the past few years.

[PA Pack Fan]

Look what Reggie did for us in the 90's.

[Freak Out]

Would have been nice to have that old white guy (Smith) from the 49ers yesterday. :) The guy is possessed. Where the hell was Justin Harrell when you need him?

[mraynrand]

Cole: :lol:

[sharpe1027]

Good point since they haven't replaced them; however, Jenkins is the only one to net more than 3 sacks/year since leaving the Packers. I don't think that any of them were worth the $ they signed for on their next team.

Cullen Jenkins 2011:
Sacks 5.5 (5.5/year)

Colin Cole (currently out of football) 2009-2010:
Sacks 1.0 (0.5/year)

Johnny Jolly (currently out of football)
Sacks: 0.0

Corey Williams 2008-2011
Sacks: 8.5 (~2/year)

[Noodle]

The loss of Jenkins has been huge. Don't quote me sack stats. What stats can't describe is stuff like disruption, offensive reaction, and defensive scheme flexibility.

TT blew it regarding Jenkins. Just blew it.

And yes, I blame the entire loss on this failure.

[mmmdk]

The loss of Jenkins has been huge. Don't quote me sack stats. What stats can't describe is stuff like disruption, offensive reaction, and defensive scheme flexibility.

TT blew it regarding Jenkins. Just blew it.

And yes, I blame the entire loss on this failure.

I must admit that losing Jenkins was a much, much bigger blow than I acknowledged in the offseason. It is huge! And Collins too!! Teams, this season, has made Clay play average at times. :sad:

[sharpe1027]

The loss of Jenkins has been huge. Don't quote me sack stats. What stats can't describe is stuff like disruption, offensive reaction, and defensive scheme flexibility.

TT blew it regarding Jenkins. Just blew it.

And yes, I blame the entire loss on this failure.

Eagles fans probably disagree. There's already talk that he could get cut because he's overpaid and often injured; however, he was their best FA. The Eagles provide further evidence that FA sucks. I hope we stay out of it.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2999/cullen-jenkins

[Tarlam!]

I must admit that losing Jenkins was a much, much bigger blow than I acknowledged in the offseason.

Maybe. But are the Packers that much better with an extra sack every 3 games?

We wouldn't be even discussing Jenkins if Neal or someone else steps up.

[channtheman]

I think if we give TT credit in regards to building a great team, we also have to lay the blame on him when he blows things like this. I didn't think it would have such a big impact and I'm sure TT didn't either. But the lack of any QB pressure made our DB's look terrible all season long. It was just easy to ignore because we didn't lose games. That being said, the Packers receivers have not had their heads in a game for the last 1.5 months of the season. I don't know what the stats are, but it would not surprise me if over the last 6 games we averaged 5 drops per game.

[ND72]

Can't really say it was anyone elses fault on Johnny Jolly but himself. If Jolly was still here, we probably wouldn't have this discussion as he would be our pass rush now.

I said it all year about Jenkins, and many people around me disagreed...I donno, I think he took some attention away from Clay on passing downs. He didn't put up huge numbers, but he was a huge factor.

[Joemailman]

TT rolled the dice and gambled that Neal could replace Jenkins. He lost. When Neal couldn't play, it was going to be a tough season for the DL.

[Tarlam!]

Good call on Jolly ND. Still not convinced about Jenkins. Heck, I think if Kampman had stuck it out at OLB he's have been a big impact player, injury notwithstanding.

[bobblehead]

The loss of Jenkins has been huge. Don't quote me sack stats. What stats can't describe is stuff like disruption, offensive reaction, and defensive scheme flexibility.

TT blew it regarding Jenkins. Just blew it.

And yes, I blame the entire loss on this failure.

I truly believe that TT would have gladly given Jenkins the deal he signed. I also believe that Jenkins was offering GB the "hometown discount" in his mind and only asked for 5yrs/$35 million and when TT told him no he got pissed. When the FA market proved TT right Jenkins was too proud to come back.

[pbmax]

I can't get mad about a Neal for Jenkins plan. Though I would not mind someone double-checking TTs homework for the next D lineman he drafts.

Corey Williams is still a good player and made some starts for the Lions this year. But as he discovered in Cleveland, he is not a 3-4 lineman. He went specifically to Detroit for the 4-3.

[pbmax]

Corey Williams
Colin Cole
Johnny Jolly
Cullen Jenkins


Our guys can tackle ball carriers pretty well, but we've lost a lot of pass rush talent over the past few years.

On second thought, that list might argue for a re-evaluation of how he drafts lineman overall.

[hoosier]

Corey Williams
Colin Cole
Johnny Jolly
Cullen Jenkins

Our guys can tackle ball carriers pretty well, but we've lost a lot of pass rush talent over the past few years.


On second thought, that list might argue for a re-evaluation of how he drafts lineman overall.

Or doesn't draft them (only two were drafted, one by Shermy and one by TT). But his drafted DLs haven't been half bad either.

[Deputy Nutz]

Not replacing Jenkins is what hurt, I won't blame Thompson for not signing Jenkins, but he did fail in replacing regardless if he had a plan in place, it didn't work. It should be his first order of business in the off season in securing a solid defensive line and getting another pass rusher opposite of Clay Mathews.

[Tarlam!]

Not replacing Jenkins is what hurt, I won't blame Thompson for not signing Jenkins, but he did fail in replacing regardless if he had a plan in place, it didn't work. It should be his first order of business in the off season in securing a solid defensive line and getting another pass rusher opposite of Clay Mathews.

Considering how well the DL and pass rush played in 2010, who'da thunk it would be a weakness a year later?

[Deputy Nutz]

Considering how well the DL played in 2010, whoulda thunk it would be a weakness a year later?

Yes, when you look who was asked to contribute on the right side I did think it was going to be a problem. In a 3-4 you have to have 3 solid linemen, not just 2 or 1, you need three. There can't be a weakness because you will cave in the defense.

Pickett and Raji held up, but in the long it didn't matter.

[pbmax]

I think the overall play of the D line and Capers adjustments last year masked the faults in the secondary. I would say they are more talented and at home in the system than they were versus Arizona (Shields and Bush as corners 3 and 4 now are better than Lee/Bush/Underwood then) but its not exactly a tight ship. But without Collins, those leaks got worse.

I seem to be repeating myself here but what I am saying is D line and pass rush are paramount, but DB help is right behind it on the list.

[denverYooper]

Now that the season is over, the players have been more open to talk issues that were obvious in season but that they just had to toe the company line on. JSO and GBPG have both had articles on how much some players missed Jenkins and Neal's knee being an issue even after he came back.

There is some chatter that Jenkins could be released before he's due a $5 million bonus in Philly this Spring, depending on which way they decide to go. If that happens, it'd be interesting to see if he and the Packers kiss and make up.

[Pugger]

Corey Williams
Colin Cole
Johnny Jolly
Cullen Jenkins


Our guys can tackle ball carriers pretty well, but we've lost a lot of pass rush talent over the past few years.

If you look at this list and add Justin Harrell TT did try to address the D line but we really got skunked there. TT has been much more successful with O linemen. :neutral: We all must hope our luck changes in this next draft when it comes to drafting D linemen.

[Pugger]

I truly believe that TT would have gladly given Jenkins the deal he signed. I also believe that Jenkins was offering GB the "hometown discount" in his mind and only asked for 5yrs/$35 million and when TT told him no he got pissed. When the FA market proved TT right Jenkins was too proud to come back.

I thought I read somewhere that TT didn't even bother to give Jenkins' agent an offer even after it was clear Cullen wasn't going to get that big payday he was hoping for.

[Smidgeon]

Not replacing Jenkins is what hurt, I won't blame Thompson for not signing Jenkins, but he did fail in replacing regardless if he had a plan in place, it didn't work. It should be his first order of business in the off season in securing a solid defensive line and getting another pass rusher opposite of Clay Mathews.

I agree with this. What's the saying? It's better to get rid of someone a year early rather than a year late? I think this is that exact scenario.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Though I would not mind someone double-checking TTs homework for the next D lineman he drafts.

Maybe his State Farm agent could do a discount double check for him?

[wist43]

The Packers are the New England Patriots of the NFC.

We have 2 good, 3/4 front 7 players (Raji and Matthews); we have a few okay front 7 players (Pickett, Hawk, Bishop); the rest are hamburger flippers... that gives us 5 NFL calibur front 7 players, 3 of which are only average.

TT won't panic, and just to prove it, he'll take offensive players with his first 3 picks in April's draft.

[sharpe1027]

If you look at this list and add Justin Harrell TT did try to address the D line but we really got skunked there. TT has been much more successful with O linemen. :neutral: We all must hope our luck changes in this next draft when it comes to drafting D linemen.

Also add Neal and Raji as high picks and Pickett as a relatively expensive FA.

[Pugger]

sharpe, I don't think we got skunked with Raji or Pickett. Pickett is a good run stuffer and Raji is a nose trying to play end. He also was over used. As the deputy said, you need at least 3 quality d linemen and we didn't have that this past season. When we had Jenkins, Pickett and Raji in there last year our defense was much better. The coaches and TT counted on Neal filling Jenkins' shoes and it blew up in their faces.

[mraynrand]

I think the overall play of the D line and Capers adjustments last year masked the faults in the secondary. I would say they are more talented and at home in the system than they were versus Arizona (Shields and Bush as corners 3 and 4 now are better than Lee/Bush/Underwood then) but its not exactly a tight ship. But without Collins, those leaks got worse.

I seem to be repeating myself here but what I am saying is D line and pass rush are paramount, but DB help is right behind it on the list.


I think the mostly healthy secondary matured to a point late last year where Capers could let Shields and Williams man-up with a single safety and cheat all over the place in pass rush, run fits and underneath coverages. The drop in play of Williams and Shields, and the far more significant loss of Collins exposed a very weak pass rush (although I will say that straight up, the pass rush was better last year)

[sharpe1027]

sharpe, I don't think we got skunked with Raji or Pickett. Pickett is a good run stuffer and Raji is a nose trying to play end. He also was over used. As the deputy said, you need at least 3 quality d linemen and we didn't have that this past season. When we had Jenkins, Pickett and Raji in there last year our defense was much better. The coaches and TT counted on Neal filling Jenkins' shoes and it blew up in their faces.

I only mentioned them because they support your statement that TT has tried to address the D line. He might be batting under .500, but not he has at least got on base.

[Bretsky]

I thought I read somewhere that TT didn't even bother to give Jenkins' agent an offer even after it was clear Cullen wasn't going to get that big payday he was hoping for.


I think that was accurate