Studs and Duds - Playoff Edition - One and Done

[ThunderDan]

Studs & Duds Playoff Edition:

The Green Bay Packers lost the football game Sunday. The Packers slowly shot themselves in the foot over and over and over until there was finally no time to pull the game out of the fire. Until Grant’s fumble in the 4th quarter I was sure the Packers would put it together and finally beat the Giants. As horrible as we played in the game we still were within distance for a win. Unfortunately, the Packers couldn’t get it turned around and the season ended with the team’s worst mental performance of the year.

Studs:
Donald Driver stood out. He had 3 receptions for 45 yards and a TD. Maybe it was DD’s experience that the rest of the receiving corps doesn’t have but Driver was able to adjust to ARod’s passes that were a little off. It would be sad if that was DD last game in GB. I sure hope he comes back for one more year.

Ryan Pickett played a really good game. The defense as a whole played fairly well. Pickett was a disruptive force in the Giants’ backfield play after play. He finished with 4 tackles.

Duds:
Charlie Peprah was awful. He was lost in coverage time after time. On Hakeem Nicks’ 66 yard TD reception Peprah went for the knock out blow but instead bounced Nicks clear of any pursuit. As the last man back on the defense you have to make the tackle not go for the highlight reel hit. He also was partially to blame for the Hail Mary at the end of the half. GB has to find a way to make Peprah a special team player and 4th safety on the roster.

The Receiving Corp other than Driver. Too many dropped balls on the night. Best Buy is going to sell $4k in gift cards this week. Arod wasn’t at his best last night but his receivers consistently got two hands on the ball and couldn’t bring the pass in.

Other Notes:
It would have been easy to add a few more to either list but I thought the players above need more mention than others. I thought Bishop had a good game. He put a few licks on Eli and forced the INT. Morgan Burnett and Jones flashed too on the D. The RBs played hard and had some good runs but dropped passes and fumbled also.

I still can’t believe that the fumble by Jennings wasn’t overturned. I kept hoping that on some angle they would show his butt hitting the ground before the ball came loose but I didn’t see one.

I still am undecided on a few of MM calls last night. I am still not sure on the onside kick in the first half. I keep going back and forth on if that was the right call or not. The other decision I was against was going for it on 4 and 5 early in the fourth quarter. The Packers up to that point had dominated the Giants in the second half. Only down 7 points at the time, I would have punted and let the D try to force the third 3 and out in the second half.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I know some disagree, but I thought whole offensive line played damn well.

I think D line is much worse than secondary. The secondary covered a long time before Manning finished his sandwich, pickle, and tossed ball downfield.

Special recognition goes to Francois for not making an error all afternoon.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I still am undecided on a few of MM calls last night. I am still not sure on the onside kick in the first half. I keep going back and forth on if that was the right call or not.

at that point in game, Manning was playing catch with his receivers to complete every third down. D only effective in red zone, so starting position not so critical. It was a reasonable gamble.

[Pugger]

I know some disagree, but I thought whole offensive line played damn well.

I think D line is much worse than secondary. The secondary covered a long time before Manning finished his sandwich, pickle, and tossed ball downfield.

Special recognition goes to Francois for not making an error all afternoon.

Yes, when you consider the gnats' D line I thought the big fellas played pretty well until the 4th when the game got out of hand.

[channtheman]

I thought the onside kick was fine. The Giants moved the ball at will and were taking a lot of time off the clock. The defense seemed to stiffen in the red zone. So, if the Packers recovered, great. If not, the Giants were likely going to at least move the ball and get in field goal range anyway but at least they would only have to go 20 yards and less time would run off the clock. As it is, the field goal was blocked so MM's decision really did not play out poorly anyway.

[Freak Out]

I thought he onside kick was fucking stupid. Kick the damn thing deep and at least make them work for it. There was no good reason to try it at that point. Peprah stunk but he has for some time now so no surprise there.
WTF was wrong with Rodgers? The guy just seemed afraid to let it fly.
The feared 3 man rush got it done....thanks Dom.
That game should be named "The malaise game" after what happened out there.

[Gunakor]

Biggest dud of the game was Bill Leavy.

[th87]

I love Rodgers, but he was a mess (by his standards) yesterday.

At no point did he seem comfortable. He started getting happy feet and turned to run whenever the opportunity arose. He rocketed passes that he didn't need to. And a lot of the drops would've been tough catches anyway. Like a pitcher, he just didn't seem to have his stuff last night. And in a sophisticated timing-based offense with many moving parts relying on pinpoint accuracy, this was a tough break.

I think the offense might sometimes get "too" sophisticated. Like a Ferrari, when things are working properly, it's art to watch. But if anything goes wrong, it can't function.

[SavedByGrace]

What a helpless feeling to have to sit there and watch things shake out like they did.

Studs - Donald Driver (did the Packers forget their "bread and butter" routes i.e. slant route? Driver finally made a few catches late on slant routes, but it seemed like we were too consumed with mid to deep routes)

D-Line - I know they're getting castigated by many people, but I thought they did a really nice job minimizing the Gnats run game. The only times big runs were broken was when the runners had to bounce back and switch fields. Where were our LBs?

Duds - Ryan Grant. He has no pop upfield anymore, can't catch the football, and he can't get outside. So what's his effect on the game?

Jermichael Finley - I love Jermichael, but he did not show up for this game.

Aaron Rodgers - I love A-Rod even more, and yes, I understand he carried them this entire season. But just based on this game, he was off and didn't have the rhythm this game.

Our entire secondary - Honestly, where have they been all season? I totally agree that if we had an effective blitz, they would be better. Did I miss something, but whatever happened to the good old bump n' run? Nobody chucked Nicks all game! Williams was nowhere to be found, and neither was Peprah. I think it's time to move Wood to safety. He'd be better than Peprah.

[ThunderDan]

I have another dud now that I have rewatched the game.

The Packer season ticket holders who sold their tickets to Giant fans. You can clearly hear the "Cruz" cheer every time he caught a pass. That should never happen at Lambeau.

There are enough season ticket holders who would actually go to the game who didn't get picked in the ticket lottery. Season ticket holders who sell playoff tickets should be removed from future consideration for postseason tickets.

[Ballboy]

I have another dud now that I have rewatched the game.

The Packer season ticket holders who sold their tickets to Giant fans. You can clearly hear the "Cruz" cheer every time he caught a pass. That should never happen at Lambeau.

There are enough season ticket holders who would actually go to the game who didn't get picked in the ticket lottery. Season ticket holders who sell playoff tickets should be removed from future consideration for postseason tickets.


I'll give you the "stud" award for having watch that mess again.....it will take me to the hot days of summer to watch that again!

[denverYooper]

I have another dud now that I have rewatched the game.

The Packer season ticket holders who sold their tickets to Giant fans. You can clearly hear the "Cruz" cheer every time he caught a pass. That should never happen at Lambeau.

There are enough season ticket holders who would actually go to the game who didn't get picked in the ticket lottery. Season ticket holders who sell playoff tickets should be removed from future consideration for postseason tickets.

At the very least they should be given disapproving looks from the other people in their section who saw the strangers in those seats.

[sharpe1027]

I find it hard to call Rodgers a dud. I didn't see the happy feet some claim. What I saw was him picking up a first downs after first down with smart decisions to run. I don't fault him for recognizing that the Giants were dropping everyone in coverage and not accounting for the potential for the QB to run. Smart move on his part.

He certainly missed badly on two passes. However, if all those other passes don't get dropped, Rodgers probably ends up with two more TDs. Add that to all the rushing yards he had and I just don't see dud at all.

[PA Pack Fan]

WTF was wrong with Rodgers? The guy just seemed afraid to let it fly.


This ^


I find it hard to call Rodgers a dud. I didn't see the happy feet some claim. What I saw was him picking up a first downs after first down with smart decisions to run. I don't fault him for recognizing that the Giants were dropping everyone in coverage and not accounting for the potential for the QB to run. Smart move on his part.

He certainly missed badly on two passes. However, if all those other passes don't get dropped, Rodgers probably ends up with two more TDs. Add that to all the rushing yards he had and I just don't see dud at all.
He missed on more than two passes. And he just couldn't make up his mind to throw. You can't tell me that our recievers were blanketed every play.

[MadScientist]

Running backs deserve a combined dud rating for 2 killer fumbles. That can't happen if you actually want to win.

[sharpe1027]

He missed on more than two passes. And he just couldn't make up his mind to throw. You can't tell me that our recievers were blanketed every play.

Of course he did. I was referring to the two passes that I remembered him missing badly on: one to Jennings for a likely TD and another to Finley for a first down. He threw almost 50 passes, I am sure he missed a few others.

He ended up being 26/46, which is 56%. He had at least 5 drops. He could easily have been been 31/46 or 67%. The drops would also have put him over 300 yards. He threw for 2TDs and 1 Int and he had a fumble. He also ran for 66 yards at 9.4 yds/att. Not his best outing, but a dud? Not in my book.

[Shoal]

When everyone knows that our pass rush is poor, why do we EVER only rush 3 men? Every time I saw that 3-man rush, I knew it was going to give Eli at least 97 seconds in the pocket.

[sharpe1027]

When everyone knows that our pass rush is poor, why do we EVER only rush 3 men? Every time I saw that 3-man rush, I knew it was going to give Eli at least 97 seconds in the pocket.

It was really bad a few times. I was surprised Eli didn't just hold the ball to run out the clock for the quarter on a few of the plays.

[mmmdk]

I find it hard to call Rodgers a dud. I didn't see the happy feet some claim. What I saw was him picking up a first downs after first down with smart decisions to run. I don't fault him for recognizing that the Giants were dropping everyone in coverage and not accounting for the potential for the QB to run. Smart move on his part.

He certainly missed badly on two passes. However, if all those other passes don't get dropped, Rodgers probably ends up with two more TDs. Add that to all the rushing yards he had and I just don't see dud at all.

I agree! AR had his "worst" game this in PO game but that'll happen again when winning games hinges 99% on your star QB. To Bert-like for me! And AR isn't asking for this either.

[mraynrand]

I love Rodgers, but he was a mess (by his standards) yesterday.

At no point did he seem comfortable. He started getting happy feet and turned to run whenever the opportunity arose. He rocketed passes that he didn't need to. And a lot of the drops would've been tough catches anyway. Like a pitcher, he just didn't seem to have his stuff last night. And in a sophisticated timing-based offense with many moving parts relying on pinpoint accuracy, this was a tough break.

I think the offense might sometimes get "too" sophisticated. Like a Ferrari, when things are working properly, it's art to watch. But if anything goes wrong, it can't function.

I agree that Rodgers was somewhat off - he missed a few throws, but the drops were inexcusable. Take away the drops and two fumbles and it's a win. Rodger's running was a thing of beauty. I don't agree that he ran too soon. His running was highly effective. The mistakes erased a great ground game by Rodgers.

[Tarlam!]

I thought he onside kick was fucking stupid. Kick the damn thing deep and at least make them work for it. There was no good reason to try it at that point.

You Fuck! Oh, wrong thread!!

But back to the matter at hand; Did you think it was stupid when NO did it in SB XXIV? Just asking/taunting.

[Bretsky]

You Fuck! Oh, wrong thread!!

But back to the matter at hand; Did you think it was stupid when NO did it in SB XXIV? Just asking/taunting.


I'm going to bite on this one. IMO you do the surprise onside kick when you are the underdog and think you need some luck in order to win the game. NO was rolling the dice all day long when not many expected them to win. That was an ok gamble. My first onside suprirse kick I remember was when I was at a game in the late 70's or early 80's. Bart Starr was the coach and we were playing Dallas. We opened the game with an onside kick and I think we went up 7-0. We ended up losing around 42-14 if my childhood memory serves me right. That's a good spot

We are 15-1
We are at home
We are suppose to win that game

The onside kick at that point in the game was Beyond Stupid IMO

[Patler]

I'm going to bite on this one. IMO you do the surprise onside kick when you are the underdog and think you need some luck in order to win the game. NO was rolling the dice all day long when not many expected them to win. That was an ok gamble. My first onside suprirse kick I remember was when I was at a game in the late 70's or early 80's. Bart Starr was the coach and we were playing Dallas. We opened the game with an onside kick and I think we went up 7-0. We ended up losing around 42-14 if my childhood memory serves me right. That's a good spot

We are 15-1
We are at home
We are suppose to win that game

The onside kick at that point in the game was Beyond Stupid IMO

I have to admit, my first thought was, "Is MM already that desperate to get and extra possession?"

[Tarlam!]

I have to admit, my first thought was, "Is MM already that desperate to get and extra possession?"

Or, it was game planned; or, he was sayin' "I believe in our defense". IMO, It's futile second guessing either TT or M3.

[denverYooper]

I agree that Rodgers was somewhat off - he missed a few throws, but the drops were inexcusable. Take away the drops and two fumbles and it's a win. Rodger's running was a thing of beauty. I don't agree that he ran too soon. His running was highly effective. The mistakes erased a great ground game by Rodgers.

Agree with all of this. He was laying it out there with his running, too, and made some gutsy dives for the first down.

Also, Manning had probably as many errant throws as Rodgers did. I can think of a couple of throws against Green Bay's 3 man rush where he had time and still threw high but his receivers went up and plucked them.

[denverYooper]

Or, it was game planned; or, he was sayin' "I believe in our defense". IMO, It's futile second guessing either TT or M3.

It sure looked like he did not trust the defense with that one. The side effect, probably unintended was that the D sure played with a bounce in their step for a few series after that. Take out the whole hail mary series and they put together 2 good quarters keeping the game close enough.

[Smidgeon]

I have to admit, my first thought was, "Is MM already that desperate to get and extra possession?"

I didn't look at it that way. I looked at it as a way to catch the Giants off guard and get some more points. It backfired, but I liked the call from the start.

[King Friday]

I didn't look at it that way. I looked at it as a way to catch the Giants off guard and get some more points. It backfired, but I liked the call from the start.

The problem with that mindset is that Coughlin is crazy about special teams. If any team in the league is NOT going to be caught off guard, it will be one coached by Coughlin.

It smacked of something that happens when a coach has 2 weeks to think up what "wrinkles" he can put in the gameplan. At home...#1 seed...it was a dumb move.

[Bretsky]

The Giants are so dam discliplined they seemed like they knew the onside kick was coming; that player was hardly turning. It was like Hoody was up there stealing signs for Couglin

[pbmax]

The Giants are so dam discliplined they seemed like they knew the onside kick was coming; that player was hardly turning. It was like Hoody was up there stealing signs for Couglin

Except Hoody had fallen for it last year. I think KYPack had a great point, if it was McCarthy's request, then he wanted an extra possession to help/guard against his defense. If Slocum thought he saw something, he was very wrong. And most teams with a brain know the Packers can pull that play off and they must prepare. And if they prepare for it, then the film isn't going to reveal that weakness.

I think everything you need to know about the coaches opinion of their defense was said with Bush starting as nickel corner. Terrible tackling esp. in nickel.

[denverYooper]

Except Hoody had fallen for it last year. I think KYPack had a great point, if it was McCarthy's request, then he wanted an extra possession to help/guard against his defense. If Slocum thought he saw something, he was very wrong. And most teams with a brain know the Packers can pull that play off and they must prepare. And if they prepare for it, then the film isn't going to reveal that weakness.

I think everything you need to know about the coaches opinion of their defense was said with Bush starting as nickel corner. Terrible tackling esp. in nickel.

Hell, they almost pulled off the onside kick late when the Giants were ready for it.

[woodbuck27]

I still am undecided on a few of MM calls last night. I am still not sure on the onside kick in the first half. I keep going back and forth on if that was the right call or not. . . . . . ThunderDan

Please allow me to help you on this one. It was the wrong call totally out to lunch amatuerish. Hard for me to believe any Packer HC would demonstrate looking so stupid. Make it or not it was 'just' stupid.

[bobblehead]

I love Rodgers, but he was a mess (by his standards) yesterday.

At no point did he seem comfortable. He started getting happy feet and turned to run whenever the opportunity arose. He rocketed passes that he didn't need to. And a lot of the drops would've been tough catches anyway. Like a pitcher, he just didn't seem to have his stuff last night. And in a sophisticated timing-based offense with many moving parts relying on pinpoint accuracy, this was a tough break.

I think the offense might sometimes get "too" sophisticated. Like a Ferrari, when things are working properly, it's art to watch. But if anything goes wrong, it can't function.

I must have watched a different game. All I kept seeing was a QB who would hit the open man only to have him drop it. Then when they failed to get open he would scramble for the first. The fumble sucked, he held the ball too long.

[bobblehead]

This ^


He missed on more than two passes. And he just couldn't make up his mind to throw. You can't tell me that our recievers were blanketed every play.

but you can tell me they weren't? He did throw and often, but we had a mountain of drops. He is responsible for turnovers, just like Grant/kuhn/Jennings. That killed us. Drops and turnovers.

[Pugger]

It sure looked like he did not trust the defense with that one. The side effect, probably unintended was that the D sure played with a bounce in their step for a few series after that. Take out the whole hail mary series and they put together 2 good quarters keeping the game close enough.

I didn't trust the defense either...

[mraynrand]

I think everything you need to know about the coaches opinion of their defense was said with Bush starting as nickel corner. Terrible tackling esp. in nickel.

good observation. Coaches traded off between coverage and tackling, assuming? Giants would run more. Got burned in both coverage and tackling after the catch.

[ThunderDan]

I still am undecided on a few of MM calls last night. I am still not sure on the onside kick in the first half. I keep going back and forth on if that was the right call or not. . . . . . ThunderDan

Please allow me to help you on this one. It was the wrong call totally out to lunch amatuerish. Hard for me to believe any Packer HC would demonstrate looking so stupid. Make it or not it was 'just' stupid.

That is how I feel about the onside kick half of the time.

[sharpe1027]

The best time to try an onside is when it is completely unexpected. The only real downside of an onside kick is field position. The upside is getting the ball yourself with great field position. If you could recover 60% of the onside kicks, would you do them?

[Smidgeon]

The best time to try an onside is when it is completely unexpected. The only real downside of an onside kick is field position. The upside is getting the ball yourself with great field position. If you could recover 60% of the onside kicks, would you do them?

Every time. But I'm not a coach either. :D

[sharpe1027]

Every time. But I'm not a coach either. :D

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html


The effect of surprise on the success of an onside kick is pretty big. The chart below plots success rate by WP. The less a team is expecting an onside kick, the more successful it is. When teams are expecting it, when WP is about 0.15 and below, the success rate is about 20%. But when teams aren’t expecting it, the success rate averages 60%. (There are 103 onside kicks classified as 'surprise' in the data, which results in a standard error of +/- 4.8%.)

[pbmax]

I have another dud now that I have rewatched the game.

The Packer season ticket holders who sold their tickets to Giant fans. You can clearly hear the "Cruz" cheer every time he caught a pass. That should never happen at Lambeau.

There are enough season ticket holders who would actually go to the game who didn't get picked in the ticket lottery. Season ticket holders who sell playoff tickets should be removed from future consideration for postseason tickets.

Agree. They shouldn't have a lottery for those playoff tickets. Should need to wait outside the stadium for a couple nights to get them.

[pbmax]

good observation. Coaches traded off between coverage and tackling, assuming? Giants would run more. Got burned in both coverage and tackling after the catch.

I saw him and thought something happened to Shields in warmups (like Clifton some time ago I think). But Aikman was right on it and I take it as correct because it lined up perfectly with Capers statements about Woodson at safety in nickel. I generally don't mind Aikman, if they paired him with someone other than Buck, he would be a decent listen.

[Fred's Slacks]

I am suprised at all the complaining about the onside kick. I thought it was a great move. I had no confidence in our defense slowing anyone down between the 20s. So give em a short field and see if we can hold them to 3. At worst, its a shorter series for our D saving their legs and giving our O a little more time of posession. As it turns out, the defense held and we blocked the kick so not only was it a short series, but it resulted in no points and good field position for our offense.

What are we complaining about again?

[Iron Mike]

What are we complaining about again?

Fire Campen!!!!

[mraynrand]

What are we complaining about again?

losing. losing after being *ucking 15-1. Losing with homefield advantage. losing with one of the best offenses in the history of the NFL playing like *ucking dog*hit. Generally complaining because the *ucking worthless *oddamn *ucking season went up in *ucking smoke.

[ThunderDan]

Agree. They shouldn't have a lottery for those playoff tickets. Should need to wait outside the stadium for a couple nights to get them.

Let's not get all crazy about the situation.

You sell playoff game tickets thru a registered agent (Stubhub etc.) you are removed from the playoff list for 5 years.

[Pugger]

losing. losing after being *ucking 15-1. Losing with homefield advantage. losing with one of the best offenses in the history of the NFL playing like *ucking dog*hit. Generally complaining because the *ucking worthless *oddamn *ucking season went up in *ucking smoke.

Come on, tell us how you really feel. :lol: