what if...

[ND72]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/137580733.html

I guess it's an interesting thought, but to me it seems as though Jenkins feelings were hurt, and he's now a year older...would we rather find a guy in the draft, or go back to him? I'm not saying NOT to, just kind of a think about type thing.

[Bretsky]

Every time I click on a JS link and realize I can't read the page I hate JS even more. And I was a Packer Insider Subscriber

We really missed this guy. IF we could go back in time and get the same deal he signed with Phily I believe we sign him, run, and have a much better chance of playing this weekend

[pittstang5]

I would like to see Jenkins back, but I don't think either side (TT and Jenkins) want to be back.

[Smidgeon]

I would like to see Jenkins back, but I don't think either side (TT and Jenkins) want to be back.

I speculate that next year will be his "one year too late" year a la Joe Johnson.

[Upnorth]

If he is affordable hell yes. Still draft for defence but instead of dl in the first we can get a lolb to help Mathews. You want a pass rush, just imagine another kinda Mathews in our lb corp. Which side do you double?

[Packers4Glory]

I'd say yes. we need DL depth and talent. Still pick up a guy or 2 in the draft as well. Time to cut some of that dead useless weight up front.

[George Cumby]

Provided he dresses like Mr. T all season.

[Pugger]

It appears like my suspicions were true. TT and company decided to let Jenkins walk and counted on other players already on the roster to take his place and it blew up in their faces.

[Tarlam!]

It appears like my suspicions were true. TT and company decided to let Jenkins walk and counted on other players already on the roster to take his place and it blew up in their faces.

Which is actually not a bad thing.

[SkinBasket]

It appears like my suspicions were true. TT and company decided to let Jenkins walk and counted on other players already on the roster to take his place and it blew up in their faces.

You would think Jenkins was Jesus, or at least Reggie White, in some people's memory. The guy was injured more often than not, and his play wasn't that spectacular when he was on the field to think his departure is to blame for the defense's epic collapse. Again, look no further than Jenkin's performance, especially after the first 4 games this season, to understand just how little we missed out by not having him in Green bay. Saying the decision to not sign him "blew up" in anyone's face is at best hyperbole, fantasy, and a collage of selectively optimistic memories.

[denverYooper]

You would think Jenkins was Jesus, or at least Reggie White, in some people's memory. The guy was injured more often than not, and his play wasn't that spectacular when he was on the field to think his departure is to blame for the defense's epic collapse. Again, look no further than Jenkin's performance, especially after the first 4 games this season, to understand just how little we missed out by not having him in Green bay. Saying the decision to not sign him "blew up" in anyone's face is at best hyperbole, fantasy, and a collage of selectively optimistic memories.

That's it right there. In the end, he indeed would have been better this year than a collection of greenies at ROLB and on DL but it's not hard to see why the decision they made was one that took Jenkins's availability, age, propensity to disappear, and price into consideration. They gambled, but it wasn't as high risk a gamble as many retrospectively make it out to be.

I think Bobble was closer to right in another thread saying that Jenkins wanted more money in original talks with the team than he ended up getting on the market. I also believe at the time that he did not even give the Packers a shot to match the sheet he ended up signing in Philly.

Unfortunately we don't have Andrew Brandt working with the Packers so we'll probably never end up getting the lowdown on those negotiations 3 years from now.

[ND72]

I would agree Denver & Skinbasket...he wasnt' Reggie White...or Sean Jones for that fact, but he was very good for what we had. He did give us a pass rush or at least a push we needed and missed this year though.

[Packers4Glory]

He gave teams someone other than Mathews to worry about. There was absolutely nobody on the DL that posed much of a pass rush threat. Outside of Mathews or a blitzing DB, we had nothing. Bring back Jenkins, draft a couple more DL, and some OLB's to compliment Mathews.

as I said in a different thread, we found out just how fine a line it is from being a top 5 defense to the worst...its pretty fucking thin.

[red]

guy was always injured and he played like shit last year

we dodged a bullet by not giving him a big deal

[Pugger]

It appears like my suspicions were true. TT and company decided to let Jenkins walk and counted on other players already on the roster to take his place and it blew up in their faces.


You would think Jenkins was Jesus, or at least Reggie White, in some people's memory. The guy was injured more often than not, and his play wasn't that spectacular when he was on the field to think his departure is to blame for the defense's epic collapse. Again, look no further than Jenkin's performance, especially after the first 4 games this season, to understand just how little we missed out by not having him in Green bay. Saying the decision to not sign him "blew up" in anyone's face is at best hyperbole, fantasy, and a collage of selectively optimistic memories.

What blew up was TT and company putting all of their pass rushing eggs into the basket of Neal, Wilson and Green (plus Wynn when Neal got hurt). We all saw how that turned out. Jenkins wasn't all world but he got more sacks in Philly than this trio did in GB.

[denverYooper]

I would agree Denver & Skinbasket...he wasnt' Reggie White...or Sean Jones for that fact, but he was very good for what we had. He did give us a pass rush or at least a push we needed and missed this year though.

I agree that he had to be accounted for by the opposition, which is more than can be said for most of the others they had. I'd like to see him back because I personally liked him but I think that even if they kiss and make up they need to grab someone in the draft and/or have a backup plan in case he gets injured.

[King Friday]

Some of you act as if Jenkins is equivalent to an impact player.

He is not.

The real key to having him around last year was DEPTH. The rotation on the DL helped keep everyone fresh. This year, our DL depth was pathetic and it showed. We don't need to bring Jenkins back...just get some young kids with ABILITY who are also HEALTHY, unlike most of the DL dopes we've had around here lately.

[Bretsky]

Some of you act as if Jenkins is equivalent to an impact player.

He is not.

The real key to having him around last year was DEPTH. The rotation on the DL helped keep everyone fresh. This year, our DL depth was pathetic and it showed. We don't need to bring Jenkins back...just get some young kids with ABILITY who are also HEALTHY, unlike most of the DL dopes we've had around here lately.


Maybe not an "impact" player, but he has starter talent and made those around him better when he played
It's tough to say that about the J.A.G.S. we had replace him. We had too many of those "he's a good last guy in the rotation" guys

[Tarlam!]

This is a weird discussion. What is the definition of an impact player? When healthy, Jenkins made an impact. But he missed 5 games in the SB XLV season, you know, the team that only won 10 games in the season.

I don't think it is accurate to hold his first 4 perormances as an Eagle as a measurement of his ability. New DC, new positions coach, new team, no real off season. Yet I am surprised to see posters question TT's decision to let Jenkins walk.



PS: ESPN is running with the rumour also. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/35399/do-packers-want-cullen-jenkins-back

[woodbuck27]

I would like to see Jenkins back, but I don't think either side (TT and Jenkins) want to be back.

The loss of Cullen Jenkins certainly had a negative impact on this years team. That was too obvious. We must not look at this season based in that one and out playoff game in terms related to OUR team roster; when our team was just out and out whooped by a better team on that day. We went one and out in the playoffs because we did not see our team get that state of urgency it needed to be prepared to defeat the GIANTS.

We had the GIANTS back ay Lambeau Field. Just that fact should have done it for every player on the team. Why that is the case has to be obvious to every member here. This GIANTS team was representing a franchise about as old as ours and wanting all the GLORY the PACKER franchise holds.

If anyone here cannot see clearly that the blame has to be shared among all in the Packer organization outside of the players they are not in touch with reality. OUR team had a healthy roster ready to play the GIANTS in a must win game.The embarassment of a loss had to be obvious.The very real possibility of a loss had to be on every Packer player and Coach and Ted Thompsons mind that we could lose was a very real possibility. now if Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy and their team od coachs was sincerely sure that they had that roster set to defeat the GIANTS they are in denial or a cast of liars.

MM is seen on TV the day after that loss telling Packwer nation that he felt that his team was properly prepared for the GIANT game. What did he do to prepare Jordy Nelson and James Jones and Donald Driver to move over for Greg Jennings and Jermichael Finley ...uhh...think.

There is over the top too much evidence to point to the fact that OUR team was not prepared for these playoffs. To get into discussions like this or..... RE: any Cullen Jenkins issue.... is simply irrelevant. If you imagine it is then here is the answer and try to understand it and please move forward to the real issue (s):

Would he (Cullen Jenkins) consider a return engagement in Green Bay if the opportunity arose?

"I'm going to stay away from even commenting on that one," Jenkins replied. "You kind of move on. Right now, I'm an Eagle, and that's my mindset. I'm going to continue to be an Eagle until they don't want me to be an Eagle anymore. That's my main focus right now. I'm not worried about any of the other ifs, ands or buts."
Any lingering personal regrets aside, it's really hard to imagine the Eagles deciding to part ways with Jenkins, who was one of their best and most consistent defensive players this season, and a rare voice of leadership in the locker room. Jenkins' coaches loved him. His teammates loved him. And he played extremely well.

You never know what kind of decisions are going to be made once it comes time to fit new players under the salary cap or commit long-term dollars to young stars like LeSean McCoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12514/lesean-mccoy) or even, I guess, DeSean Jackson (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11283/desean-jackson). But if the Packers want Jenkins back, my guess is they're out of luck. The Eagles might have some regrets of their own from last offseason, but signing Jenkins isn't one of them. **

**end of quote (my keyboard has forgotten English overnight ...hahaaha)


I am not attempting to insight a war with all those of you who imagine that Ted Thompson is really something truly special. That his Head Coach choice is something less than a future legend in the annals of Packer history. Head Coachs and in my fifty plus years drawn in for a comparison...thinking.

MM is.... at the top tier of Head Coachs..... because we have seen some really bad Packer teams in the 1970-90 era.

To get right down to it. It has only a little to do with Cullen Jenkins not in Green and Gold. This team went 15-1 during the 2011 season. Did that fact go to the players heads ......or to the players and MMs heads..... or to the players and MMs and TTs heads.......thinking.

We were doomed to fail. Too much pointed that out too clearly. OUR defense played really small and soft D. That defense was not going to suddenly materialize into a Super Bowl caliber defense. We had a better roster than the one that finished the season 15-1 and we were in real trouble with the GIANTS coming to Lambeau Field. That was all the motivation the entire packer organization needed to gear up for and deal with...overcome.

My position is somehow defeat the GIANTS and how much motivation should that have taken.....think.

Like all of you i watched that game and down 10 points we came out and dominated that third quarter. The result three lousy points and then the GIANTS decided it was their game to lose. OUR DEFENSE ... no ... defense ....fulfilled its promise ... not much. MM called a terrible game. Overall he was vastly outcoached and as usual MM got stuck in his panic fear state. Mike McCarthy is not the answer to coach our team. TC is coaching 100% of the time. MM thinks he has his team prepared that nothing before that game warned otherwise. Well what was his mindset during that game. Did he react as he might have to how flat we came out of the gate? Did he utilize all his offensive weapons?

Look at film of Tom Coughlan. Study his style of coaching his team Vs the style of MM. Listen to each talk as often as you can and be honest. Which man is more impressive....think.

Be honest with yourself. If you could trade MM for TC would you refuse that gift...and therein lies your answer or at least a part of it, as to why we went one and out this season. Why as Green Bay Packer fans we along with OUR team suffer such embarassment.

PLEASE get REAL. Thanks for your time. (-:

GO PACKERS!

[denverYooper]

While you're likely right that Cullen Jenkins wouldn't have helped win the game last weekend, I disagree with the main point of your dissertation that M3 is a bad coach.

[Pugger]

The HC of a 15-2 team that won 29 of the last 37 games and whose team is the reigning Super Bowl Champs is a bad coach? Ookaaay...

[Joemailman]

TT and MM leading the Packers to a Super Bowl and then going 15-1 was a traumatic thing for Woody after the things he said about them in the past. This loss is sort of a temporary reprieve for him.

[denverYooper]

TT and MM leading the Packers to a Super Bowl and then going 15-1 was a traumatic thing for Woody after the things he said about them in the past. This loss is sort of a temporary reprieve for him.

It'll be too bad after they reload the defense and win the next 2.

[ND72]

The thing to remember about Jenkins this year is he was playing a true DT position in a 4-3 defense instead of the DE position in a 3-4 defense. responsiblities are different, and the Eagles defense was just weird all season, but Jenkins was more consistent than most on that team.

[Smidgeon]

It'll be too bad after they reload the defense and win the next 3.

Fixed.

[Upnorth]

Woodbuck posed an interesting question. MM or Tom Coughlin (I think). I for one would pick MM as Tom Coughlin's teams are very hot and cold. I also think our team did not respond well to setbacks such as drops and short KO's not being recovered.
If we can get a bit better pass rush we stop a few more third down attempts and we win the game.
Regarding Jenkins, I don't think he is a world beater, but he is substantially the the rest of our Dline. Having him back allows us to draft a pass rushing olb opposite Mathews. This would give more difficult assignments to opposing olines and improve our chance of someone getting home. Jenkins by himself is not great, but is another piece of the puzzle.

[SkinBasket]

PLEASE get REAL.

I'll get real when you get anywhere near concise.

[Zool]

Maybe, just maybe, its really fucking hard to win 2 superbowls in a row. It's possible that other teams field pro football players and are capable of winning any game they play if they play well.

Maybe

[Smidgeon]

Maybe, just maybe, its really fucking hard to win 2 superbowls in a row. It's possible that other teams field pro football players and are capable of winning any game they play if they play well.

Maybe

I don't know. That sounds like some serious speculation. ;)

[denverYooper]

Maybe, just maybe, its really fucking hard to win 2 superbowls in a row. It's possible that other teams field pro football players and are capable of winning any game they play if they play well.

Maybe

It's apparently very hard to do without cheating and with the salary cap. 97-98 Broncos had some creative accounting going on and everyone knows about the early 2K Pats...

It seems to me that the management of this team has put together a structure and culture that might make it happen. If they can get the defense reloaded they'll be dominant.

[Upnorth]

Maybe, just maybe, its really fucking hard to win 2 superbowls in a row. It's possible that other teams field pro football players and are capable of winning any game they play if they play well.

Maybe

But but but, I don't cheer for them! What gives them the right!

[woodbuck27]

TT and MM leading the Packers to a Super Bowl and then going 15-1 was a traumatic thing for Woody after the things he said about them in the past. This loss is sort of a temporary reprieve for him.

Nope there are certain fundamentle facts in LIFE. ie People are what they are.

Look at the way MM handled his troops in the 2007 season playoff's last game loss to the Giants. How did he prepare OUR team for that loss/

Now look at what he did to prepare us for this back to back playoff loss to that samr organization. 2007 to 2011. Have I changed alot? NO!

Has MM changed alot? NO ! He's on the record as saying he did NOT see this last loss coming. Is his mind in some cloud? As our HC he must demonstrate a dynamic response to any action or choose a correct reaction. How can any Packer fan with a keen sense of reality and not wearing blinders NOT see the likelyhood of this loss on Jan. 15, 2012 ? A loss was written all over this matchup and that result should surprize noone who's even been paying marginal attention to our team. MM was surprized that we lost!? His team came out of the gate flat. MM watched his teams offense spit and sputter. He had enough weapons to go in a different direction and he failed to go there. He did not utilize his options. He froze up. He was flat out out coached by Tom Coughlan again. That cannot be disputed by anyone but the most 'in denial' Packer fan.

MM couldn't see this developing. This loss. Right there you have your answer to this man's sense of urgency. Throughout that loss you could see plenty of evidence of MM's sense of common sense and urgency under fire. MM may have been blocking it all out? That doesn't mean I have to go there as a fan.

This is my football team as fan. I deserved more as a Packer fan than MM gave to me last Sunday.

If that ...my observation and report upsets anyone at Packerrats so be it.

[Bossman641]

Nope there are certain fundamentle facts in LIFE. ie People are what they are.

Look at the way MM handled his troops in the 2007 season playoff's last game loss to the Giants. How did he prepare OUR team for that loss/

Now look at what he did to prepare us for this back to back playoff loss to that samr organization. 2007 to 2011. Have I changed alot? NO!

Has MM changed alot? NO ! He's on the record as saying he did NOT see this last loss coming. Is his mind in some cloud? As our HC he must demonstrate a dynamic response to any action or choose a correct reaction. How can any Packer fan with a keen sense of reality and not wearing blinders NOT see the likelyhood of this loss on Jan. 15, 2012 ? A loss was written all over this matchup and that result should surprize noone who's even been paying marginal attention to our team. MM was surprized that we lost!? His team came out of the gate flat. MM watched his teams offense spit and sputter. He had enough weapons to go in a different direction and he failed to go there. He did not utilize his options. He froze up. He was flat out out coached by Tom Coughlan again. That cannot be disputed by anyone but the most 'in denial' Packer fan.

MM couldn't see this developing. This loss. Right there you have your answer to this man's sense of urgency. Throughout that loss you could see plenty of evidence of MM's sense of common sense and urgency under fire. MM may have been blocking it all out? That doesn't mean I have to go there as a fan.

This is my football team as fan. I deserved more as a Packer fan than MM gave to me last Sunday.

If that ...my observation and report upsets anyone at Packerrats so be it.

Are you serious? What coach would "see" losses coming, and even if they did, who would admit it? Coaches are all about maintaining positive thinking. He would lose half the team by admitting he saw a loss coming and didn't have faith in the team.

[pbmax]

I am reminded of something someone once said on the internet:

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill


Woodbuck, you cannot lay your observations about the team's state of mind on the coach and then ignore the rest of what he has accomplished. If you are going to stand by the accuracy of your observation (which I find questionable), then you need to apply it across the board. Did he not demonstrate the ability to lead last year? Do you think this ability has simply deserted him?

You claim the roster is superior but nowhere do you dissect the Giants roster. You claim the organization should have seen the Giants as more of a threat (which mitigates your point about the superiority of the Packers roster), but nowhere do you consider the possibility that they could win. You make the contradictory leap from the Giants are a threat to "losing to the Giants is a sign of unfitness for the job". You cannot look at two losses and pronounce someone unfit to lead a team. You are not looking for truth, you are looking for a scapegoat.

Here is a short list of playoff coaches who have lost big games in the playoffs, most of them even lost twice to the same team and coach:

Tom Coughlin
Bill Belicheck
Bill Cowher
Bill Parcells
Bill Walsh
Joe Gibbs
Mike Holmgren
George Seifert
Chuck Noll
John Madden
Tom Flores

That playoff showing does not demonstrate McCarthy's unfitness for his job. It demonstrates that a very good defense, that can generate a pass rush with 4 lineman and have CBs who can play man to man across the field (or zone with speedy LBs like the Bears) can give McCarthy's offense fits.

Of course, they give most offenses fits.

And lastly, if Jennings had had one more game to get his timing back with Rodgers, if Clifton and Bulaga had had one more game to knock the rust off, if Starks had been able to play versus the Lions, then we would be having a very different conversation. Sometimes health is not what it is cracked up to be. Wounded and hot are a better prescription these days.