Hawk taking heat in Green Bay

[Brandon494]

He made 1.2M last season but next season and years after he will be making 4M+ which we put him in the top 3 paid players on the team. He had a good rookie season and played solid last season but besides that he's been average and sucked this season. He's just an average LB with a great name.

[swede]

He made 1.2M last season but next season and years after he will be making 4M+ which we put him in the top 3 paid players on the team. He had a good rookie season and played solid last season but besides that he's been average and sucked this season. He's just an average LB with a great name.

I support your right to beat that drum. More cowbell, though.

[denverYooper]

I support your right to beat that drum. More cowbell, though.

Swede puts on his pants one leg at a time -- just like the rest of you. Except, once his pants are on, he makes gold records.

[SkinBasket]

You kept going on and on about how much stats mean so I gave you some stats and now your acting like they don't mean anything. You sir are the funny one!

Maybe you should quote my extensive use of stats. Or get your shit straight, since you can't.

And they blame the teachers in the cities...

[mraynrand]

Swede puts on his pants one leg at a time -- just like the rest of you. Except, once his pants are on, he makes gold records.

Ironically, making the gold records gets those pants right off again, but under more favorable circumstances.

[Fritz]

I think the problem is systemic and cannot be pinned to one player. See PB's analysis.

They pretty much all sucked!

[Smeefers]

As some of you may remember, I've been pretty strong in Hawk's corner. Well, the writing just got written on the wall. The man may just be in trouble.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/12/secret-superstar-d-j-smith-lb-green-bay-packers/

[Joemailman]

Maybe, but the Packers don't save any money on the salary cap by releasing him this year, due to his signing bonus. Next year they would save 2 mil+. Also, TT may want to see Smith play Hawk's position some before getting rid of Hawk. Last year Smith primarily played in place of Bishop. I suspect A.J. gets one more year, unless Smith clearly outplays him in the preseason.

[Brandon494]

About damn time!

[Upnorth]

Maybe, but the Packers don't save any money on the salary cap by releasing him this year, due to his signing bonus. Next year they would save 2 mil+. Also, TT may want to see Smith play Hawk's position some before getting rid of Hawk. Last year Smith primarily played in place of Bishop. I suspect A.J. gets one more year, unless Smith clearly outplays him in the preseason.

I agree with this, Smith has played 4 games, lets see how he does over a season. Don't get me wrong, I hope he is great, but I won't let my expectations get too high on a second year player with only 5 games taking NFL snaps. I expected So'oto to be the next great hidden gem and that didn't turn out. Hopefully this one does.

[denverYooper]

Maybe, but the Packers don't save any money on the salary cap by releasing him this year, due to his signing bonus. Next year they would save 2 mil+. Also, TT may want to see Smith play Hawk's position some before getting rid of Hawk. Last year Smith primarily played in place of Bishop. I suspect A.J. gets one more year, unless Smith clearly outplays him in the preseason.

You also have to take PFF with a grain of salt.

[RashanGary]

Tough call.

During a TT press conference this year, Thompson answered a question saying, "A lot of player are too short or too small to play in the NFL, but they come in and go to 7 probowls. DJ Smith is too small, but we think he's a pretty good player." I've heard Capers compare him to Sam Mills. He played well last year, as a rookie in a year where rookies had a big disadvantage.

I do think the Packers are very high on DJ Smith. I don't think Hawk is tremendously overpaid, although it looks like he is somewhat overpaid. The salary is a problem. DJ Smith being better will be the far bigger problem.

I know cutting Hawk now doesn't save us actual "cap space" this year, but it does save us 4 million dollars overall (rather than saving 2m next season, we'd save 6m by cutting him now) So there is a savings by cutting Hawk now vs next year, it just doesn't show up until the following year.

Hey, if we resigned Clay Matthews to a 4 year deal next offseason, cutting Hawk now would add 1M to each season of Clay's contract years. A nickle here and a dollar there add up fast.

They know a lot more about DJ Smith than they do about a late 1st round draft pick who's never even been to a practice with their coaches let alone played in an NFL game. If they think he's friggin good, I think they have enough information to move on now. I have a hunch Smith is the better player. That's not a good sign for AJ Hawk, especially down the road, but even now.

[RashanGary]

double post

[SkinBasket]

About damn time!

About damn time what? That someone wrote a fluffer piece about DJ Smith? If that gets you excited, you should find some kind of hobby, like spitting watermelon seeds.

[MJZiggy]

About damn time what? That someone wrote a fluffer piece about DJ Smith? If that gets you excited, you should find some kind of hobby, like spitting watermelon seeds.

Oooh. Watermelon! And I love a good fluffer piece in the summertime. What else is there to read? You think these guys are going to actually report on what's going on in practice?

[pbmax]

Its based on a tiny sample of work from Smith, but this article is the exact opposite of a fluff piece. Doesn't mean it isn't wrong, but its based on observable fact. Not like the work of the mind readers at JSO.

[Bretsky]

Hawk isn't getting cut this year; they need more evidence of Smith against top competition before making a judgement. Maybe he'll suprise upside. I hope so. But IMO decisions will be made next year

[Fritz]

I think Bretsky is spot on here. Hawk will be around this year, and it looks like Driver, too. It'll be after this season, I think, that we'll see the washing of certain contracts from the roster.

[KYPack]

Tough call.

During a TT press conference this year, Thompson answered a question saying, "A lot of player are too short or too small to play in the NFL, but they come in and go to 7 probowls. DJ Smith is too small, but we think he's a pretty good player." I've heard Capers compare him to Sam Mills. He played well last year, as a rookie in a year where rookies had a big disadvantage.

I do think the Packers are very high on DJ Smith. I don't think Hawk is tremendously overpaid, although it looks like he is somewhat overpaid. The salary is a problem. DJ Smith being better will be the far bigger problem.

I know cutting Hawk now doesn't save us actual "cap space" this year, but it does save us 4 million dollars overall (rather than saving 2m next season, we'd save 6m by cutting him now) So there is a savings by cutting Hawk now vs next year, it just doesn't show up until the following year.

Hey, if we resigned Clay Matthews to a 4 year deal next offseason, cutting Hawk now would add 1M to each season of Clay's contract years. A nickle here and a dollar there add up fast.

They know a lot more about DJ Smith than they do about a late 1st round draft pick who's never even been to a practice with their coaches let alone played in an NFL game. If they think he's friggin good, I think they have enough information to move on now. I have a hunch Smith is the better player. That's not a good sign for AJ Hawk, especially down the road, but even now.

No Justin.

Cutting Hawk would cost us about a half million this season.

Next year, cutting Hawk does save us money.

Unless AJ plays his brains out this year, he's gone next year.

I like that kind of incentive.

[SkinBasket]

Its based on a tiny sample of work from Smith, but this article is the exact opposite of a fluff piece. Doesn't mean it isn't wrong, but its based on observable fact. Not like the work of the mind readers at JSO.

Really? A piece titled, "Secret Superstar: DJ Smith" is all about observable fact? Using selective stats to make a predetermined case is no better than what the JSO or Micheal Moore does. I'm not saying that I think the guy sucks dong, but like others here, think Smith needs more time and production to demonstrate that dropping Hawk would be a smart move. When it comes down to it, I trust the Packers evaluations more than some guy at profootballfocus, so as long as Hawk is on the team and starting, I'm going to tend to believe he gives the team the best chance at winning. I say tend, because we did have to suffer Bigby and Poppinga and Walden for some time before the team moved on.

[Pugger]

No Justin.

Cutting Hawk would cost us about a half million this season.

Next year, cutting Hawk does save us money.

Unless AJ plays his brains out this year, he's gone next year.

I like that kind of incentive.

Hawk isn't going anywhere next year. It is clear the coaches have a lot more regard for Hawk than most fans do, otherwise he wouldn't have received such a big contract.

[Pugger]

Really? A piece titled, "Secret Superstar: DJ Smith" is all about observable fact? Using selective stats to make a predetermined case is no better than what the JSO or Micheal Moore does. I'm not saying that I think the guy sucks dong, but like others here, think Smith needs more time and production to demonstrate that dropping Hawk would be a smart move. When it comes down to it, I trust the Packers evaluations more than some guy at profootballfocus, so as long as Hawk is on the team and starting, I'm going to tend to believe he gives the team the best chance at winning. I say tend, because we did have to suffer Bigby and Poppinga and Walden for some time before the team moved on.

I think Hawk is better than Poppinga, Bigby and Walden. Last year Hawk sucked but so did a lot of other guys...

[Smeefers]

I in no way meant to say that I thought Hawk was gone this year. I just think there may be a position battle going on with them behind the scenes this year and then a full blown position battle next year. I don't care who wins, as long as it's the person who gives us the best chance to win. If Smith is all they say he is, he's going to push hard. I don't think they're going to make the same mistake with Smith that they did with Bishop. If he plays better than Hawk, he'll be out there. Consequences be damned.

[KYPack]

Hawk isn't going anywhere next year. It is clear the coaches have a lot more regard for Hawk than most fans do, otherwise he wouldn't have received such a big contract.

I dunno about that one, Pug.

Hawk has been one of the whipping boys for a defense that had some serious outages last season. He's better hand out there than a lot of the Hawk bashers give him credit for. He also does have holes in his game that may well see him replaced on the field. There are two types of zone coverages for LB's in Capers D. One is lock, where you cover a receiver in a man technique. The other is pattern, where you defend an area on the field, like a zone in basketball.

Hawk has trouble with his pattern coverage, especially in the Red Zone. Teams show him motion, then throw over his ass. he gets beat in that a lot. An example of this is the Detroit game. Detroit got in our end of the field and ran a fooler play to Hawks position. it was a play that had worked all year for GB opponents. The Lions threw the pass, but Hawk wasn't in there. Francois leaped and made the pick. Hawk just isn't very athletic in that coverage. The easy answer would be to play Francois instead of Hawk, the problem is Francois is a real stiff guy and that's one of the only types of plays he makes readily.

We had personnel issues last year. Our whole right side was weak. Maybe Hawk can rally and make the covers he's had trouble with. Hawk was part of the problem last season, but not the biggest problem.

That's why we drafted all those guys. We need better athletes on the field. espec. at RDE and ROLB.

[Zool]

No Justin.

Cutting Hawk would cost us about a half million this season.

Next year, cutting Hawk does save us money.

Unless AJ plays his brains out this year, he's gone next year.

I like that kind of incentive.

Maybe I'm a moron, but I thought Hawk still gets paid this year one way or another and it counts against our cap? He'll be around this year, but next year will depend on him. If he sucks anywhere near the amount of dick he sucked last year, he's gone.

[Smeefers]

Maybe I'm a moron, but I thought Hawk still gets paid this year one way or another and it counts against our cap? He'll be around this year, but next year will depend on him. If he sucks anywhere near the amount of dick he sucked last year, he's gone.

Huh. Usually it's the other way around.

[KYPack]

Maybe I'm a moron, but I thought Hawk still gets paid this year one way or another and it counts against our cap? He'll be around this year, but next year will depend on him. If he sucks anywhere near the amount of dick he sucked last year, he's gone.

Moderator, not moron.

Yeah right.

We are on the hook for Hawk. It would cost us money to cut him. He will be here this year. next year, there would be a savings to cut the boy. So if he doesn't excel this year, there is a high likelyhood he will get cut in '13

[pbmax]

Really? A piece titled, "Secret Superstar: DJ Smith" is all about observable fact? Using selective stats to make a predetermined case is no better than what the JSO or Micheal Moore does. I'm not saying that I think the guy sucks dong, but like others here, think Smith needs more time and production to demonstrate that dropping Hawk would be a smart move. When it comes down to it, I trust the Packers evaluations more than some guy at profootballfocus, so as long as Hawk is on the team and starting, I'm going to tend to believe he gives the team the best chance at winning. I say tend, because we did have to suffer Bigby and Poppinga and Walden for some time before the team moved on.

An attention seeking headline doesn't make the argument less persuasive. And the "selective" stats are their baseline measure for defensive players effectiveness overall. They acknowledge he played less than well in one game (still better than Hawk) and its a small sample size.

And a PackerRat didn't write the article, so I don't see predetermined anything.

Of course its more limited than an actual football teams' evaluation. Nothing we read is as informed as the team. We have to use limited info and reason. My eyeballs told me last year Smith played better than Hawk in a limited stint. This article confirms someone else, with a different measure, saw it as well. And that is impressive with no offseason.

[Pugger]

I dunno about that one, Pug.

Hawk has been one of the whipping boys for a defense that had some serious outages last season. He's better hand out there than a lot of the Hawk bashers give him credit for. He also does have holes in his game that may well see him replaced on the field. There are two types of zone coverages for LB's in Capers D. One is lock, where you cover a receiver in a man technique. The other is pattern, where you defend an area on the field, like a zone in basketball.

Hawk has trouble with his pattern coverage, especially in the Red Zone. Teams show him motion, then throw over his ass. he gets beat in that a lot. An example of this is the Detroit game. Detroit got in our end of the field and ran a fooler play to Hawks position. it was a play that had worked all year for GB opponents. The Lions threw the pass, but Hawk wasn't in there. Francois leaped and made the pick. Hawk just isn't very athletic in that coverage. The easy answer would be to play Francois instead of Hawk, the problem is Francois is a real stiff guy and that's one of the only types of plays he makes readily.

We had personnel issues last year. Our whole right side was weak. Maybe Hawk can rally and make the covers he's had trouble with. Hawk was part of the problem last season, but not the biggest problem.

That's why we drafted all those guys. We need better athletes on the field. espec. at RDE and ROLB.

But we didn't draft ILBers, did we? One big problem was outside pressure and pressure up the middle on the D line which was addressed in FA and the draft.

[SkinBasket]

And a PackerRat didn't write the article, so I don't see predetermined anything.

I was referring to the selective stats versus the title of the piece. Not your opinion. If I wanted your opinion I would lick it out of you.

[Freak Out]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6a92hQ8olE

[Joemailman]

Moderator, not moron.

Yeah right.

We are on the hook for Hawk. It would cost us money to cut him. He will be here this year. next year, there would be a savings to cut the boy. So if he doesn't excel this year, there is a high likelyhood he will get cut in '13

It looks to me like this year would be a wash if they cut him. His cap hit this year is 6.55 mil. If they cut him this year, it looks like they get hit with the remaining 6.4 mil of his signing bonus. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/a.j.-hawk/

I agree with your overall point though. He'll probably be here this year, and gone next year if he doesn't have a good year.

[Freak Out]

Who the hell was the Bear fan that had the lame ass Hawk/Joseph Merrick looking avatar? I hated that bitch. I think it was da baddest bear....anyway...

It would be damn nice to see someone step up and send him to the bench......at least part time.

[KYPack]

But we didn't draft ILBers, did we? One big problem was outside pressure and pressure up the middle on the D line which was addressed in FA and the draft.

Nope.

But they have moved both Lattimore and Brad Jones to ILB spots.

One way or the other, the heat is on AJ to produce this season.

I hope the boy makes it, or at least we get a productive player at that spot.

[Joemailman]

Nope.

But they have moved both Lattimore and Brad Jones to ILB spots.

One way or the other, the heat is on AJ to produce this season.

I hope the boy makes it, or at least we get a productive player at that spot.

Don't forget Terrell Manning. I'll be very surprised if he doesn't make this team.

[Fritz]

Agreed, Joe. Manning is one of those guys who looks like will need a year or two of seasoning, but could become a Brandon Chillar-type of guy.

But from what you all are finding in your research, it does seem Hawk has one more year - this one - to justify the contract numbers. If he doesn't he's either re-negotiating ala Ryan Grant last year (or was that two years ago?), or he's playing for someone else next year.

And of course Aj's agent has punched in those same numbers you all did....so I'm thinking it'll be interesting to see how a hungry Hawk plays this year.

[Smeefers]

So, Hawk's been playing pretty decent. Seems to have stepped up to fill in the void that was left by Bishop.

[RashanGary]

So, Hawk's been playing pretty decent. Seems to have stepped up to fill in the void that was left by Bishop.


Last week was the best I remember him playing since he's been here.

[Fritz]

Maybe it's helping that his defensive line is better.

[mission]

I thought I read that he lost about 10 pounds to increase his speed/quickness. Five of that had to be hair! He's been looking pretty decent and I've never really liked him.

[Brandon494]

No forced fumbles, no INTs, no sacks, but he does have a TFL! Wow hes playing so much better! :lol:

[RashanGary]

No forced fumbles, no INTs, no sacks, but he does have a TFL! Wow hes playing so much better! :lol:


He played fast.

[Smeefers]

No forced fumbles, no INTs, no sacks, but he does have a TFL! Wow hes playing so much better! :lol:

I think we can all agree that last year, Bishop was the only guy on defense who bothered to show up. He was an absolute beast. 5 sacks, 0 INT's and 2 FF's for the season. Just sayin.

[rbaloha1]

So, Hawk's been playing pretty decent. Seems to have stepped up to fill in the void that was left by Bishop.

That is a stretch. Assignment sure and filling gaps properly. Glimpses of recklessness.

IMO still an over paid third base coach.

[pbmax]

That is a stretch. Assignment sure and filling gaps properly. Glimpses of recklessness.

IMO still an over paid third base coach.

I like that!