Brady vs Starr

[Smidgeon]

Who's better in the clutch?

Rex Ryan says that the Brady-Belichick duo is possibly the best in history because they're gunning for a fourth trophy in the modern age. Bradshaw did it too, but I don't think many people put him in that category. Starr only had 2 Super Bowls, but he had three championships before that. And Cold Hard Football Facts puts him as the greatest QB in history for what he did in the playoffs. But that was a few years ago.

So who'd you take?

[Upnorth]

At least you came to the right place for an unbiased poll. Who's Brady again??? Hehehe.

Seriously Brady is amazing but I would go with Starr

[Joemailman]

Starr has a career postseason passer rating of over 100 at a time when anything over 70 was considered outstanding. It was relatively neanderthal football. It wasn't until 1967 that offenses could even put a receiver in motion. Starr may have been the best ever at thinking on his feet. I often think of what Starr would have done when I see a QB call timeout because the defense is lined up in a way he didn't expect.

[King Friday]

Difficult to compare QBs from different eras. The game was far different in 1960. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either...and you are splitting hairs trying to decide between them.

[Bretsky]

Is this the same Rex Ryan who was blabbermouthing about how the Ravens would beat Hoody Genius and the Brady Bunch ?
It's a tough call
To be Homer or To Be Honest ?
hmmmmm

[Joemailman]

Is this the same Rex Ryan who was blabbermouthing about how the Ravens would beat Hoody Genius and the Brady Bunch ?
It's a tough call
To be Homer or To Be Honest ?
hmmmmm

Not sure you have to be a homer to pick the guy with the better passer rating, better won/loss percentage, and better TD/INT ratio.

[Bretsky]

Not sure you have to be a homer to pick the guy with the better passer rating, better won/loss percentage, and better TD/INT ratio.


I'm not really qualified to have a view here since I'm not old enough to have seen Starr play any more than highlights.......so that is where my view is from

but

Do you really think Starr has the skills and could accomplish anything near what Brady has in the current era ? In other words, does his talent level allow him to excel as much ?

[Joemailman]

I'm not really qualified to have a view here since I'm not old enough to have seen Starr play any more than highlights.......so that is where my view is from

but

Do you really think Starr has the skills and could accomplish anything near what Brady has in the current era ? In other words, does his talent level allow him to excel as much ?

It's hard to project how a player from one era would do in another era. Would Brady have done as well without the multiple receiver/motion offenses he plays in now? Hard to say. My point is that Starr was a better playoff quarterback in his era than Brady has been in his.

[King Friday]

It's hard to project how a player from one era would do in another era. Would Brady have done as well without the multiple receiver/motion offenses he plays in now? Hard to say. My point is that Starr was a better playoff quarterback in his era than Brady has been in his.

Of course Starr was a better playoff QB. He was on a team full of HOFers, and his Super Bowl wins came against teams that honestly did not matchup fairly with the legendary Packers. Starr did it over and over with the same cast and the same general strategy...because the players on the field for Green Bay were almost always better than those on the other side of the ball.

I think there is something to be said for a QB being successful with different personnel around him. That isn't to say that Starr would fail at it, but he never really had the chance. Brady has, and has shined. He has won a lot of playoff games playing against more evenly matched opponents. It is HARDER to be successful today than in the 1960s...there isn't even a comparison. So having great success in the 1960s really doesn't translate to today's game with 32 franchises and 12 playoff teams.

[Joemailman]

Of course Starr was a better playoff QB. He was on a team full of HOFers, and his Super Bowl wins came against teams that honestly did not matchup fairly with the legendary Packers. Starr did it over and over with the same cast and the same general strategy...because the players on the field for Green Bay were almost always better than those on the other side of the ball.

I think there is something to be said for a QB being successful with different personnel around him. That isn't to say that Starr would fail at it, but he never really had the chance. Brady has, and has shined. He has won a lot of playoff games playing against more evenly matched opponents. It is HARDER to be successful today than in the 1960s...there isn't even a comparison. So having great success in the 1960s really doesn't translate to today's game with 32 franchises and 12 playoff teams.

Huh? When Starr won his last title, Hornung was gone. Taylor was gone. Ron Kramer was gone. Max McGee was riding the bench. Starr most certainly was able to win with changing personnel.

[Scott Campbell]

It's Bart.

[Pugger]

Starr has a career postseason passer rating of over 100 at a time when anything over 70 was considered outstanding. It was relatively neanderthal football. It wasn't until 1967 that offenses could even put a receiver in motion. Starr may have been the best ever at thinking on his feet. I often think of what Starr would have done when I see a QB call timeout because the defense is lined up in a way he didn't expect.

It would be interesting if we could bring back Starr in his prime and see what he could do today. I'd wager he'd be very successful. Back in his day receivers could be hit past 5 from the LOS and QBs were not protected like they are today. Starr didn't have the strongest arm but he had it where it counts = between the ears.

[Patler]

Of course Starr was a better playoff QB. He was on a team full of HOFers, and his Super Bowl wins came against teams that honestly did not matchup fairly with the legendary Packers. Starr did it over and over with the same cast and the same general strategy...because the players on the field for Green Bay were almost always better than those on the other side of the ball.

I think there is something to be said for a QB being successful with different personnel around him. That isn't to say that Starr would fail at it, but he never really had the chance. Brady has, and has shined. He has won a lot of playoff games playing against more evenly matched opponents. It is HARDER to be successful today than in the 1960s...there isn't even a comparison. So having great success in the 1960s really doesn't translate to today's game with 32 franchises and 12 playoff teams.


Huh? When Starr won his last title, Hornung was gone. Taylor was gone. Ron Kramer was gone. Max McGee was riding the bench. Starr most certainly was able to win with changing personnel.

That is one of the big misconceptions, that the same group of players won all five titles in the '60s.
If you compare the starters in '62 (their second title) to those just 5 years later in '67 (their last title), there were 6 different starters on offense, 6 different starters on defense, a different kicker, a different punter and a different kick returner.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It would be interesting if we could bring back Starr in his prime and see what he could do today.
It would be even more interesting to see him play today as a spry 78-year-old. I'm guessing there would be a lot of check-downs and running to daylight.

[MadtownPacker]

I cant comment on Starr handling the current NFL because of my age but I am positive a bitch ass crybabay like brady wouldnt make it through one game in the 60s. He cries whenever he is touched and gets rattled once he is hit. Pretty sure the old timers would think he was a fag too with his Uggs (For men!!) boots. No offense to Harlan and other sexual deviants.

[King Friday]

The fag might have as many SB rings as Montana and Bradshaw tomorrow, so maybe more QBs need to wear Uggs and like rainbows.

[woodbuck27]

At the end of this day will Tom Brady be looking forward to the design of his fourth Super Bowl ring? 52% of yahoo users say he will. What he or they think will be decided by the GIANTS. The answer to that question of Starr or Brady will be Starr here. How much will bias and the Packer homer status play out in that responce? I watched Starr play QB. I've watched Brady. Who is the superior QB? I don't know because they come from such different era's.

[sheepshead]

Being objective as I can I would give the nod to Brady. A bit more athleticism, just a bit. So far Montana is the best QB I have ever personally seen play. Rodgers has the makings where you see a little of Payton Manning, Montana and Aikman in him.

[Patler]

Being objective as I can I would give the nod to Brady. A bit more athleticism, just a bit. So far Montana is the best QB I have ever personally seen play. Rodgers has the makings where you see a little of Payton Manning, Montana and Aikman in him.

Brady, more athletic? Having watched both, I don't see it. Brady is a lot bigger, that's all.

[MadtownPacker]

The fag might have as many SB rings as Montana and Bradshaw tomorrow, so maybe more QBs need to wear Uggs and like rainbows.
Honestly comparing to Montana is great but when bradshaw is brought into the conversation I have to say Im not very impressed that he has four rings.

[woodbuck27]

The fag might have as many SB rings as Montana and Bradshaw tomorrow, so maybe more QBs need to wear Uggs and like rainbows.


ahh....


Brady dated actress Bridget Moynahan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridget_Moynahan) from 2004 until late 2006.[63] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-People-62) On February 18, 2007, Moynahan confirmed to People (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_(magazine)) magazine that she was more than three months pregnant with her and Brady's child.[63] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-People-62)[64] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-63) Brady and Moynahan ended their relationship sometime in early December 2006, around the time Moynahan became pregnant.[65] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-64) Brady was present when the baby, John Edward Thomas Moynahan,[66] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-65) was born on August 22, 2007 at Saint John's Health Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_John%27s_Health_Center) in Santa Monica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Monica).[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-66) The baby has Brady's first and middle names as middle names, though in reverse order (Moynahan's father's first name is Edward, however).

Tom Brady married Brazilian supermodel Gisele Bündchen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisele_B%C3%BCndchen) on February 26, 2009 in an intimate Catholic ceremony in Santa Monica, California.[68] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-name-67)[69] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-68) On June 19, 2009, reports surfaced that Bündchen was pregnant.[70] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-69) On September 11, 2009, Brady confirmed to ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN) that they were indeed expecting, and that Bündchen was due in December 2009.[71] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-70) On December 8, 2009, Bündchen gave birth to the couple's first child together, a son.[72] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-71) On December 18, 2009, Bündchen posted a message on her website indicating that their son's name is Benjamin.[73] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-72) In the April 2010 issue of Vogue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogue_(magazine)) magazine, Bündchen confirmed that his name is Benjamin Rein Brady and that his middle name is a shortened version of her father's name Reinoldo.[74] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-73) They christened (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism) their 6-month-old son Benjamin in Santa Monica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Monica) on June 22, 2010.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-usm-9)

[woodbuck27]

Tom BRADY RECORDS:

NFL records

Wins

Fewest starts to achieve 100 regular-season wins as a starter (131 starts)
Most wins with one head coach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_coach) (124, Bill Belichick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick)).[78] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-CoachWins-77)
Most consecutive wins, postseason: 10 (2001, 2003, 2004, 2005)
Most consecutive wins, regular season and postseason: 21 (2003–2004)
Most consecutive wins in regular-season home games: 31 (2006–2011)
Most seasons finishing 8–0 at home: 5 (2003, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010)
Only quarterback to start and win 3 Super Bowls before his 28th birthday
Touchdowns

Most passing touchdowns, regular season: 50 (2007)
Most passing touchdowns, regular season and postseason combined: 56 (2007)
Most touchdown passes, month: 20 (October 2007)
Most passing touchdowns, quarter: 5 (second quarter vs. Tennessee, October 18, 2009)
Largest touchdown to interception differential: +42 (2007)
Highest touchdown to interception ratio, season: 9.0 to 1 (36 TD/4 INT, 2010)
Highest touchdown pass–interception ratio, career: 2.52-1 (260 TD/103 INT)
Most games with 3+ touchdown passes, regular season: 12 (2007)
Most consecutive games with 5+ touchdown passes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_games_with_a_touchdown_pass_(NFL) #All-time_consecutive_games_with_at_least_five_touchdow n_passes): 2 (2007) (tied with Daunte Culpepper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daunte_Culpepper))
Most consecutive games with 3+ touchdown passes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_games_with_a_touchdown_pass_(NFL) #All-time_consecutive_games_with_at_least_three_touchdo wn_passes): 10 (2007)
Most consecutive games with 2+ touchdown passes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_games_with_a_touchdown_pass_(NFL) #All-time_consecutive_games_with_at_least_two_touchdown _passes): 13 (tied with Peyton Manning)
Most consecutive games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 9 (2010, October 24 – 2011, September 12)
Most games with 1 touchdown pass and no interceptions, season: 14 (2010)
Most games with 2 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 11 (2010)
Most games with 3 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 8 (2007)
Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 5 (2007)
Most games with 4 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 12 – tied with Brett Favre
Most games with 5 touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 3 (2007)
Most games with 5 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 4 – tied with Peyton Manning
Most games with 6 touchdown passes and no interceptions, career 2 – tied with Peyton Manning
Completions

Highest single-game completion percentage, postseason: 92.9% (vs. Jacksonville, January 12, 2008)[79] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-78)
Most completions in a Super Bowl: 32 - tied with Drew Brees (XXXVIII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII))
Most career Super Bowl completions: 100 (XXXVI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVI), XXXVIII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVIII), XXXIX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXIX), XLII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLII))
Largest completion–interception ratio, season: 81.0-1 (324-4) (minimum 150 completions), 2010
Most games with 20 completions and no interceptions, season: 10 (2007)
Most games with 30 completions and no interceptions, career: 9 – tied with Drew Brees
Most games with 30 completions and no interceptions, season: 5 (2007)
Most games with 50 pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 3
Yards

Largest passing yards–interception ratio, career: 337.3-1 (34,744-103) (minimum 20,000 passing yards)
Largest passing yards–interception ratio, season: 975.0-1 (3,900-4) (minimum 2,000 passing yards), 2010
Most games with 300 yards passing and no interceptions, season: 8 (2007)
Interception-free streaks and interception percentage

Most consecutive pass attempts to start a career without an interception: 162 (2000–2001)
Most consecutive pass attempts without an interception, regular season: 358 (2010, October 24 – 2011, September 12)
Third-lowest interception percentage (interceptions per attempt), career: 2.19% (Aaron Rodgers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers) ranks first @ 1.99%; Neil O'Donnell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_O%27Donnell) is second @ 2.11%)
Personal bests

Excluding the list of NFL records above:

Highest single-game quarterback rating: 158.3 (at Miami, October 21, 2007 and at Detroit, November 25, 2010) Perfect Rating
Highest single-season quarterback rating: 117.2 (2007) 3rd highest all-time
Most passing touchdowns, game: 6 (at Miami, October 21, 2007 and vs. Tennessee, October 18, 2009)
Most passing yards, game: 517 (at Miami, September 12, 2011)
Most passing yards, season: 5,235 (2011) 2nd highest all-time
Lowest interception total, season (minimum 2 starts): 4 (2010)
Most consecutive games with 1+ touchdown passes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_games_with_a_touchdown_pass_(NFL) #All-time_consecutive_games_with_at_least_one_touchdown _pass): 29 (2010–present) 5th all-time
Most consecutive uninterrupted games with 1+ touchdown passes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_games_with_a_touchdown_pass_(NFL) #All-time_consecutive_uninterrupted_games_with_at_least _one_touchdown_pass): 29 (2010–present) 2nd all-time
Most consecutive playoff games with 1+ touchdown passes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_games_with_a_touchdown_pass_(NFL) #All-time_consecutive_playoff_games_with_at_least_one_t ouchdown_pass): 17 (2002–present) 2nd all-time
21-game win streak statistics (including post-season)


690 passes attempted
412 passes completed
4,953 passing yards
34 passing touchdowns
13 passes intercepted
20.29 passing attempts per touchdown
53.07 passing attempts per interception
59.71 completion rate
90.3 passer rating
Career


124–35 (.780) (regular season), 138–40 (.775) (career) as a starter
8–1 (career) in overtime games
37–7 (career) vs. NFC teams
33 game-winning drives after a Patriots' fourth-quarter tie or deficit[80] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-79)
Post-season records and statistics


NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Starr)).
Most consecutive post season wins (college and professional combined): 12
3 Super Bowl victories
2 Super Bowl MVP awards
Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII)
Most career Super Bowl completions (100 in four games)
Highest completion percentage in a single game, minimum 20 attempts (26 of 28, 92.9%, against Jacksonville in 2007 AFC Divisional round)[81] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-80)
Most touchdowns passes in a playoff game(tied with Steve Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Young) & Daryle Lamonica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryle_Lamonica)): 6, January 14, 2012
Most touchdowns passes in a playoff game half: 5, January 14, 2012

[TravisWilliams23]

Bart Starr, 5-1 in title games.
Tom Brady, 3-2 in title games.
Nuff said.

[MadtownPacker]

He cries whenever he is touched and gets rattled once he is hit.Never used "this" before and it will be the last time so here goes.....

This!

[Iron Mike]

Bart Starr, 5-1 in title games.
Tom Brady, 3-2 in title games,with 3 wins coming as a result of his team taping the opposing teams' defensive signals.
Nuff said.

Fixed. :)

[Patler]

For all the greatness everyone finds in Brady, he won his Super Bowls when the team around him needed him less. Now, when he is the key to their success, he has taken early exits from the playoffs and has come up short in his last two Super Bowl appearances.

The three-peat engineered by Starr came as the team around him deteriorated and needed him the most. He was a piece of the puzzle in the early '60s, but was the unquestioned cornerstone for the last three championships. When they needed him the most, Starr came through.

[swede]

Honestly, watching Aaron has given me a new appreciation for Brady. He is a fine quarterback. One of the best. Not that I like him.

[Pugger]

For all the greatness everyone finds in Brady, he won his Super Bowls when the team around him needed him less. Now, when he is the key to their success, he has taken early exits from the playoffs and has come up short in his last two Super Bowl appearances.

The three-peat engineered by Starr came as the team around him deteriorated and needed him the most. He was a piece of the puzzle in the early '60s, but was the unquestioned cornerstone for the last three championships. When they needed him the most, Starr came through.

this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pbmax]

I can see discounting Brady's first Super Bowl win as he was mainly along for the ride. But he was MVP of another while the major talent on his team was on the defensive side of the ball. He was the best O player they had for 2 Super Bowl wins (maybe 3), unless we are going to argue that Deion Branch or Troy Brown were once in a generation WRs. Now, that doesn't make him the best QB ever, but it makes him pretty good. Elway couldn't deliver until he had a better team around him, so I think this argument can be stretched to fit almost anyone and does not ultimately reflect accurately on the overall talents of the QBs.

Starr is definitely underrated by everyone except Cold Hard Football Facts and Packer fans.

The cheating thing might be more telling.

But one thing I do know: while everyone talks about the Giants pass rush, what makes that defense so good is the secondary. A lot of teams can pressure the QB, but those guys can cover. They did it to the Packers and to the Patriots. Which leads me to believe that I have underestimated Alex Smith.

[Patler]

It's not about being the MVP in a specific game or having played well in specific games, it's delivering after you have become the focus of your team on offense. Brady was a good, but not yet great QB in 2003, 2004. He was not particularly accurate, and statistically he was well off the league leaders. A solid member of that big middle tier of QBs that always exists. There was still a lot of debate at that time about how good he really was, and questions about if the team around him really made him. The same questions were raised about Starr in the early '60s. The team's success stemmed from much more than Brady, just as the Packers' did from much more than Starr in the early '60s.

It was after those two Super Bowls that Brady emerged as a leading passer, and the Patriots came to rely on him more and more. The same happened with the Packers beginning iin the mid '60s.

I'm not saying Brady isn't a good QB, he obviously is. Maybe one of the better ones of all time. But this thread asks us to compare Brady and Starr. In that regard, Brady's lackluster playoff performances in years when he has been the focus of the team, is an important consideration.

When we talk about bests of all times, I think of athletes who delivered in important situations when opponents knew that the key to stop their teams was to stop them. Brady does not compare to Starr in that regard, or to Montana.

[pbmax]

When we talk about bests of all times, I think of athletes who delivered in important situations when opponents knew that the key to stop their teams was to stop them. Brady does not compare to Starr in that regard, or to Montana.

That's a fair point, and you are right, with more data on Brady as the focal point of the offense, his career looks different now than it did after the 3rd Super Bowl win.

But I wonder if Starr had an advantage over Brady in what he was asked to do? Going just from memory (of pro football reference, not old enough to remember them playing), Lombardi stuck to his run first principles throughout his tenure, even as that run game wore down and became less effective either because of opponent adjustments (Landry's flex defense) or players getting old (Hornung). Was Starr more effective because he was not called up to be the offense until late in close games (or when behind)?

Did Starr resemble early career Elway in that his coach was not interested in putting the game on his back until he had no choice? I know this is not apples to apples as Reeves was calling plays for his QB and Starr was calling his own. But did he benefit from any surprise effect when they had to throw? Or was he considered the primary threat during those last 3 championships?

I suppose his MVP award might answer that question, but did teams ever stop planning for the Green Bay running game first?

[Patler]

That's a fair point, and you are right, with more data on Brady as the focal point of the offense, his career looks different now than it did after the 3rd Super Bowl win.

But I wonder if Starr had an advantage over Brady in what he was asked to do? Going just from memory (of pro football reference, not old enough to remember them playing), Lombardi stuck to his run first principles throughout his tenure, even as that run game wore down and became less effective either because of opponent adjustments (Landry's flex defense) or players getting old (Hornung). Was Starr more effective because he was not called up to be the offense until late in close games (or when behind)?

Did Starr resemble early career Elway in that his coach was not interested in putting the game on his back until he had no choice? I know this is not apples to apples as Reeves was calling plays for his QB and Starr was calling his own. But did he benefit from any surprise effect when they had to throw? Or was he considered the primary threat during those last 3 championships?

I suppose his MVP award might answer that question, but did teams ever stop planning for the Green Bay running game first?

Well, most every team had a run first mentality in those days, but actual productivity was another matter.

Consider this: For the five years from 1960 to 1964, the Packer running game gained no less than 2150 yards in any season. Remember too, that these were 14 game seasons, not 16, so they were gaining better than 150 yards/game running the ball and had more running yards than passing yards. That changed dramatically in 1965. In '65 and '66 they gained 1488 & 1673. In 1967 there was a resurgence of sorts with 1915 yards, but no one ball carrier had even 500 yards for the season. If anything, the running game in 1967 may have benefited from teams playing to stop Starr, because from '65 on, the offense went as Starr went, for the most part.

SI had a great article during that time frame, outlining how the Packer offense had changed from one driven by the run, with passing as a diversion, to one that revolved around Starr. More than anything else, that article opened up the eyes of many fans to appreciate what Starr really meant to the Packers

[pbmax]

SI had a great article during that time frame, outlining how the Packer offense had changed from one driven by the run, with passing as a diversion, to one that revolved around Starr. More than anything else, that article opened up the eyes of many fans to appreciate what Starr really meant to the Packers

If you can give me a time frame, or the cover, we can find the article in the SI Vault.

[Patler]

If you can give me a time frame, or the cover, we can find the article in the SI Vault.

I would try '67 first, then '68, followed by '66.

[Pugger]

Let us know if you find it pbmax. If you do I'll go look at it too. :-)

[Upnorth]

Heres something
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080318/index.htm

[Upnorth]

and this
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079211/index.htm

[pbmax]

Heres something
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080318/index.htm

Well, I suggest the next time any Packer Rat gets guff about claiming Starr as one of the greatest QBs of all time, they refer to the fact that during the 1967 season, none other than Sid Gilliam, father of the modern passing game (along with Paul Brown) said that Starr had surpassed Unitas as the top passer in the League.

Good find Upnorth, I hadn't even gotten that far.

[Upnorth]

Well, I suggest the next time any Packer Rat gets guff about claiming Starr as one of the greatest QBs of all time, they refer to the fact that during the 1967 season, none other than Sid Gilliam, father of the modern passing game (along with Paul Brown) said that Starr had surpassed Unitas as the top passer in the League.

Good find Upnorth, I hadn't even gotten that far.

Thank you. I was on hold with an investment company which I hate. A client is transferring from them too me so I got to do two great things. Take money from those who treat their clients poorly and read about the Lombardi packers. That is win win I tell ya!

[mmmdk]

There's a Danish rock band called 'I Got You on Tape' and it always make me think of Hoody! :lol:

[Patler]

Well, I suggest the next time any Packer Rat gets guff about claiming Starr as one of the greatest QBs of all time, they refer to the fact that during the 1967 season, none other than Sid Gilliam, father of the modern passing game (along with Paul Brown) said that Starr had surpassed Unitas as the top passer in the League.

Good find Upnorth, I hadn't even gotten that far.

I tend to forget about the SI Vault as a source for corroboration of the stories some of us old guys tell. I have sensed some people rolling their eyes when I have argued for years that Starr was truly someone special in his playing days.

[pbmax]

I am perplexed that SI's Vault, one would think a very valuable resource, languishes in many ways on SI's site. Each issue, including current ones are scanned in manually and you can read the fun OCR errors in a lot of the text.

Their photo vault gets a more loving treatment and they have a curator for it with a Twitter account that sends out regular reminders of what is there (I would hope Life and Time do the same thing).

It should really get more play because SI has had some fabulous sports writers. There are many literary types (Updike, Wolfe and Foster Wallace) that have done sublime work for newspapers, but for long form magazine pieces, SI leads the way (or led, anyway).

One of the first things they should fix is the search feature which is next to useless. Makes PackerRats seem user friendly (hi Mad!). If you don't know a specific time frame or words in the story, good luck. I went searching for something by Rick Reilly once and could not find it under his name and had to literally look through each issue, Table of Contents by TOC, until I found it. Some items in those electronic editions don't seem indexed.

[Pugger]

Heres something
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080318/index.htm

The Lombardi Packers are not the first team to win 3 consecutive NFL championships. ;-)

[Upnorth]

Pugger, nice catch. the writer probably didn't want the rest of the league to feel shame.