Father of the Year

[Kiwon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kl1ujzRidmU

15 year old daughter + disrespectful Facebook post = a laptop with 9 bullet holes in it.

A bit extreme maybe, but it sends a message that got her attention I'd bet.

[Deputy Nutz]

I can't say much for his yard.

[Scott Campbell]

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2012/news/120220/josh-powell-3-300.jpg


Nice try, but here's your winner.

[gbgary]

awesome. here's a followup if you're on facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/tommyjordaniii/posts/10150524639115846

[Kiwon]

awesome. here's a followup if you're on facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/tommyjordaniii/posts/10150524639115846

I knew the guy would take a bunch of crap from people but it's obvious that he loves his daughter, loves her enough to kick her butt when she needs it.

Hopefully the light will come on in the girl's brain and she will start to appreciate the life and family that she has.

[MJZiggy]

I'm sure she will start to appreciate it. I think her behavior is completely normal for a 15-year-old trying to begin to grow herself away from her parents. I think the point he was trying to make was fine, but I think shooting her computer was a little extreme. I'd have just taken my kid's computer to work and given him an educational program on kids who actually have shitty lives (because there are plenty of them) until I saw a change in attitude.

[Patler]

I think the point he was trying to make was fine, but I think shooting her computer was a little extreme. I'd have just taken my kid's computer to work and given him an educational program on kids who actually have shitty lives (because there are plenty of them) until I saw a change in attitude.

Agreed. How much better it would have been to donate her computer to a day care center for adults or children, a head start program, women's shelter, Girls/Boys Club, etc. Lots of better options than destroying it, while still taking it away from their daughter on a permanent basis. Show her a better purpose for her computer rather than simply destroying it.

[Kiwon]

Agreed. How much better it would have been to donate her computer to a day care center for adults or children, a head start program, women's shelter, Girls/Boys Club, etc. Lots of better options than destroying it, while still taking it away from their daughter on a permanent basis. Show her a better purpose for her computer rather than simply destroying it.

A YouTube video posted on her Facebook page of her computer being given away to a daycare center just somehow lacks the power of seeing a pissed off dad following through with a threat he made and shooting her computer. :-)

[Upnorth]

His response will have a more lasting effect on his daughter than giving it to charity, as people remember emotional episodes must more vividly.
Giving it to charity would have a more lasting effect on others than his response.

His duty was to his daughter, I say for her he did the right thing. If they aren't strapped for cash rather than having her pay for it make her do service work to earn it back. Then you get the best of both worlds.

[George Cumby]

Agree with his message, agree with his basic points. I don't know enough about the family dynamics to know if this was the best way to deal with the issue or not. But I get it.

He would've looked better had he not been smoking that cigarette.

[MadtownPacker]

Favorite line, when he says "you owe me for these bullets too, they're about a dollar each". :lol:

Agree with those that said this lesson is about whats best for his daughter. Giving it away would have just pissed her off. Destroying it is him saying "you want to act messed up, well so can I you selfish little brat". Gotta figure her little issue Dad mentions involved a boy. So really the whole shooting thing serves a dual purpose.

[MJZiggy]

Favorite line, when he says "you owe me for these bullets too, they're about a dollar each". :lol:

Agree with those that said this lesson is about whats best for his daughter. Giving it away would have just pissed her off. Destroying it is him saying "you want to act messed up, well so can I you selfish little brat". Gotta figure her little issue Dad mentions involved a boy. So really the whole shooting thing serves a dual purpose.

If it involves a boy, I get the impression she won't be seeing him again anytime soon...I wonder if when the video was done, he took it back inside and put it on her desk...

[Patler]

His response will have a more lasting effect on his daughter than giving it to charity, as people remember emotional episodes must more vividly.
Giving it to charity would have a more lasting effect on others than his response.

His duty was to his daughter, I say for her he did the right thing. If they aren't strapped for cash rather than having her pay for it make her do service work to earn it back. Then you get the best of both worlds.

I don't know, if you take her along and make her physically hand it over, she feels the impact maybe even more. Now it can be seen by her as an angry act by an out of control father (even though he did not appear out of control).

What would the impacts be on her friends:
1. "My Dad shot my computer".
2. "My Dad made me delete all personal information, wipe the drive and take my computer to the homeless shelter and give it to them."

#1 - her computer is gone.
#2 - she was forced to give her computer away.

Both ways it is gone. In #1 it was simply destroyed, so she doesn't have it. In #2 she knows some one else has it and is using it. Physically it is retrievable, practically it is not.

[Upnorth]

I see what your saying patler, but emotionally I doubt the delete and hand over would have as much of an emotional impact. Sure she can still talk tough but she will always know if she crosses her father she will loose. If he does follow up with community service to pay for it you get the repeated acts of kindness instead of a once off.
That and blasting away at a laptop would be fun! Win win win.

[Upnorth]

One last thing my boy would bite when his sister was playing with things he wanted. We would get him to give them to her as a punishment and send him to the thinking corner. This continued until one day I took his toy and broke it in front of him and made him throw it out. I then had him say I could break a toy if he bit.
The biting stopped then.

[Patler]

One last thing my boy would bite when his sister was playing with things he wanted. We would get him to give them to her as a punishment and send him to the thinking corner. This continued until one day I took his toy and broke it in front of him and made him throw it out. I then had him say I could break a toy if he bit.
The biting stopped then.

I suspect you are talking about a much younger child. Their understandings are different.

I had the exact opposite experiences with my kids as pre-teens and teens. The most successful lessons were always those taught when they were involved with it. with a teenager, needlessly destroying something of value is not a good lesson, in my opinion. I never wanted them to prove a point by destroying something, so I would not do it to them either.

[Upnorth]

I think the key here is sticking to a punishment. Most parents threaten and don't follow up,and if you do that then all parenting values mean nothing. We are quibling over a degree of punishment when sticking to youu guns (see what I did) is the biggest part of the puzzle.

[wootah]

I never wanted them to prove a point by destroying something, so I would not do it to them either.

This. In my opinion it's about showing the right way to handle things and acting like it yourself.

[ThunderDan]

What a horrible act of parenting! The point he gets across is fine. The way he does it is horrible. He has just proven that if you are bigger and have a gun its OK to destroy someone elses property. Not a great lesson to teach your kid. I agree with Patler on this one. Take the computer away, no need to destroy it.

Upnorth hits it on the head about disciplining children. You have to have rules and when your child breaks them you have to enforce a punishment.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think he should have practiced his lines a few more times before rolling camera, he sounded like a guy just smart enough to shoot a computer.

[SkinBasket]

What a horrible act of parenting! The point he gets across is fine. The way he does it is horrible. He has just proven that if you are bigger and have a gun its OK to destroy someone elses property.

Who said it was someone else's? Sounds to me like he bought it for Princess Fuckface. That's why he told her she could have another when she could afford to buy one herself.

[3irty1]

That video should have been 45 seconds long. Not how I'd handle a pain in the ass teenage daughter but this fella doesn't seem suited for the required mental warfare.

[Kiwon]

My, my....I didn't realize that we had some many "holier-than-thous" at PR.

What angst over the destruction of a computer! A computer that he bought and maintained with his money, loaned to his daughter for her use, and warned her that she would lose if she continued to disrespect her father, step-mother, and mother. And then, finally, when the smart-a teen gets caught again, with the permission of the above, the dad follows through with his promise in a dramatic way. Brilliant!

Not what you would have done? Who cares? It's that family and their values. That dad who has raised the girl for 15 years knows better how to communicate to you than you. After having that video posted on her Facebook page by him to shame her before her friends in the same manner as she had disrespected her parents, I bet she will immediately grow up some and change her tune.

If Whitney Houston had had people around her that cared for her like this father does for his daughter then she would be alive today, drug-free, and healthy.

Oh, the use of a gun is violence? Hardly. But, somehow, people create this emotional link from guns to abuse. There is no valid comparison to physical or verbal abuse and the man shooting a computer on video. My goodness, the man's daughter is almost 16. Which is closer to unlawful, destroying her computer or physically punishing her?

So far, the dad's survived the scruntiny of the "Save the Whales, Kill the Babies" crowd that think that Facebook is another version of reality. Yeah, they called the authorities on him.

The father's regrets after being checked out by the police and Child Protective Services?

He said ".....if he had to do it again he would, "Not be smoking a cigarette ... not have used the word "ass" in my comment directed at my daughter ... would have worn my Silverbelly Stetson, not my Tilley hat if I'd known that image was going to follow me the rest of my life and I'd probably have cleaned my boots."

Good job, dad!

[Scott Campbell]

My kids are going to need so much therapy.

[Deputy Nutz]

He just looked like a jerk off, that is all I am saying.

[Little Whiskey]

He just looked like a jerk off, that is all I am saying.

I'd agree with you nutz. not much about him screams I.T. professional.......unless you count the dumbasses that work at best buy.

on a side note. i would have used a shotgun instead of a 45. the visual would have been better and the rounds would have been less exepensive.

[Upnorth]

Kiwon hits it one the head. So does Skin. Finally I like wiskey's flair for teh dramatic

[3irty1]

After brewing on it for a bit I take my previous comment back. A 15 year-old sociopath daughter takes tough love no doubt as they'll try to exploit the fact that they are your offspring. Putting a video up for her friends to see is a great idea. Like Nutz though I think the execution was severely lacking. If you're a long-winded hillbilly then your video might miss the mark of appearing like the omnipotent, omnipresent god-of-her-life that you were going for.

Patler is too smart to raise a daughter this fucked up in the first place so its no surprise to me that he's still trying to mold the clay and preserve the laptop. Punishment needed to be swift, unjust, and dripping with shock value. She probably can't be cured in the next 3 years but the laptop is acceptable collateral if it at least makes her self-aware that she's fucked up.

[Freak Out]

He fucked up....I don't care about him disciplining his daughter.....just don't do it on the internet.

[Zool]

He should have done a Najeh Davenport on the laptop. Then she'd have that mental image every time she used it.

[Upnorth]

He should have done a Najeh Davenport on the laptop. Then she'd have that mental image every time she used it.
Its the modern version of a flaming bag on the porch! A dump hidden in a laptop!

[Deputy Nutz]

He should have done a Najeh Davenport on the laptop. Then she'd have that mental image every time she used it.

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner!

[Joemailman]

Christmas at their house must be something to see. Looks like a severely dysfunctional family to me. She's self-absorbed and disrespectful to anyone who asks anything of her. His way of dealing with conflict is to make threats, and if they don't work, use intimidation and humiliation. Father Of The Year? Hardly.

[Harlan Huckleby]

His way of dealing with conflict is to make threats, and if they don't work, use intimidation and humiliation. You talk like this is a bad thing.

[Deputy Nutz]

He didn't make a threat, he really did shoot the computer. I award him with the fact that he actually followed through with it, unlike many parents who just constantly threaten their kids but don't actually do shit to change their children's behavior.

[KYPack]

I wouldn't have wasted that expensive ammo on this project. Wad cutters would have done the job.

[Upnorth]

Going to jail if you steal a car is a threat. That keeps me from from stealing. Threats work, if they are followed up on, and is how society's laws are enforced.

[Joemailman]

Going to jail if you steal a car is a threat. That keeps me from from stealing. Threats work, if they are followed up on, and is how society's laws are enforced.

Sure, but the methods that law enforcement uses to deter crime is not necessarily the best way for a father to reason with his daughter. Will this incident stop her from posting on facebook? Probably. For a while. Will it make her a more respectful and responsible person? I doubt it.

[Little Whiskey]

does he feel better after blowing the shit out of her laptop? I think so.

[SkinBasket]

God, what a bunch of pussies. So he shot a fucking computer. Big fucking deal. The world, and his family, will surely survive the loss. The gun makes the story sensational because our idiot nation has been conditioned to be afraid of them and the people who use them. If he had just run it over with a lawnmower, most people would have moved on by now without a second glance.

[Joemailman]

Your assumption that using a gun is the main reason some people aren't impressed with his methods is incorrect.

[Little Whiskey]

This would have been more effective


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3v0drnTdQ

[SkinBasket]

Your assumption that using a gun is the main reason some people aren't impressed with his methods is incorrect.

Maybe here, but not on the larger scale that led to this being a topic of discussion across the country.

[MJZiggy]

Maybe here, but not on the larger scale that led to this being a topic of discussion across the country.

I believe that people have seen his method as a little over the top. If you think no one would care if he ran over it with a lawn mower, you obviously haven't seen the look I get from the guy who sharpens my mower blades. The question is 1. whether it was really a good idea to actually destroy the computer and in such dramatic fashion and 2. whether it was necessary to try to intentionally and publicly humiliate his daughter. Since his methodology up until now has earned him no respect from his daughter, I'd suggest to you that in this instance, his methods may not be the best choice. She will do one of two things. Kowtow, or knowing that her computer is gone, become even more angry and defiant and do something drastic (and likely newsworthy) of her own to one-up him.

[SkinBasket]

I believe that people have seen his method as a little over the top. If you think no one would care if he ran over it with a lawn mower, you obviously haven't seen the look I get from the guy who sharpens my mower blades. The question is 1. whether it was really a good idea to actually destroy the computer and in such dramatic fashion and 2. whether it was necessary to try to intentionally and publicly humiliate his daughter. Since his methodology up until now has earned him no respect from his daughter, I'd suggest to you that in this instance, his methods may not be the best choice. She will do one of two things. Kowtow, or knowing that her computer is gone, become even more angry and defiant and do something drastic (and likely newsworthy) of her own to one-up him.

I don't believe that if this guy runs the computer over, throws it away, or sets it on fire that this video gets half the attention it's gotten.

As far as the public "humiliation..." Boo hoo. If this is this girl's biggest lesson in humility, then she should be thanking God every day. At some point, some people still believe that even as a parent, you have to take a stand. Judging this guy like he's a Nazi, while ignoring all the other more fucked up shit people do to their kids every day - things that are considered more "socially acceptable," or "culturally appropriate" is hypocritical, ridiculous, and shows a real lack of tolerance for methodology not accepted my the majority of failed metrosexual, liberal, progressive godless shout-abouts.

[MJZiggy]

He needed to take a stand when she was 3. And 3.5 and 3.75. I don't consider any "fucked up shit" that people do to their kids to be acceptable. Teach them, treat them with respect and earn some back. I don't support methodology that is just as likely to make the situation worse as it is to make it better. I see a lot of "metrosexual, liberal, progressive godless shout-abouts" who have perfectly happy, academically successful teenagers and who don't have to put up with the kind of shit that this fool is trying to quash because they started the teen years already having established their authority and earned their kids' respect.

[GrnBay007]

Bottom line.............................................. ....................................Until you walk in someone else's shoes!!

I know it's just a topic of discussion, but really until anyone knows the whole, complete story from birth till now.....of all involved.....is it really right to judge?

Anyway, fun topic.

[MJZiggy]

Anyway, fun topic.
That's the point.

[Kiwon]

She will do one of two things. Kowtow, or knowing that her computer is gone, become even more angry and defiant and do something drastic (and likely newsworthy) of her own to one-up him.

MJZ, the third response you failed to mention is that the girl, Hannah, matures through this experience and learns to respectfully obey her parents. I fully expect that there will be a follow-up story in a several months and we will find out that the family is closer than ever before. Given the notoriety of the video and the involvement of the authorities, I'd bet anything that Hannah defends her dad's actions and will admit that she was in the wrong.

AND, this girl will have a new computer in no time. It's a necessity for school these days anyway. After all the controversy, when she apologizes, I would expect that her dad will buy her something better than she had and they will have a big laugh over the whole thing.

[MadtownPacker]

That's the point.
Wow what a bitchy response. Maybe someone should shoot your laptop.

[Patler]

He punished the laptop more than he punished his daughter.
All he has done is to make it a little less convenient for her, nothing more.

[MJZiggy]

MJZ, the third response you failed to mention is that the girl, Hannah, matures through this experience and learns to respectfully obey her parents. I fully expect that there will be a follow-up story in a several months and we will find out that the family is closer than ever before. Given the notoriety of the video and the involvement of the authorities, I'd bet anything that Hannah defends her dad's actions and will admit that she was in the wrong.

AND, this girl will have a new computer in no time. It's a necessity for school these days anyway. After all the controversy, when she apologizes, I would expect that her dad will buy her something better than she had and they will have a big laugh over the whole thing.

Wouldn't buying her a new laptop actually reward her for the behavior? And wouldn't that completely negate everything you all have been praising him for through the whole thread? You REALLY in your heart believe that a girl who was actively and publicly cussing out her father for giving her a few chores is suddenly going to become a loving, wonderful child because her father absolutely humiliated her in front of everyone she knows? AND that the thing in her life she'll be famous for is having a father who put a bunch of bullets in her computer (that she NEEDS for school and that she uses to communicate with her friends? If she's being rebellious to begin with, I can see her taking an awful long time to even consider forgiving him for this. If she were three and needed to be put in her place, humiliating her a little might work, but teenagers tend to put more stock in the opinions of their peer than their parents, like it or not.

[MadtownPacker]

If she were three and needed to be put in her place, humiliating her a little might work, but teenagers tend to put more stock in the opinions of their peer than their parents, like it or not.
Sounds like you are saying he played it right then. Sure all her friends are giving her their opinions.

[MJZiggy]

Sounds like you are saying he played it right then. Sure all her friends are giving her their opinions.

My point is that she cares more about what they think than what he does. If her girlfriends take "her side" which they likely will, he's fucked. "Your dad is so mean!!" "I can't believe he did that to you. That is so not fair." "If my dad ever did something like that to me...I'd run away and never see him again."

How mad is she? Because from the sound of her post and his reaction to it, she's might just be a teeny tiny bit willful and not go down so easy in this power struggle.

[Patler]

Can't help but think that posting the video was more about the dad's ego than anything else. What does it gain over direct interactiom?

[Kiwon]

Can't help but think that posting the video was more about the dad's ego than anything else. What does it gain over direct interactiom?

That's ridiculous. The girl had been previously grounded for 3 months for doing something similar. The father warned the girl of worst consequences if she did it again. She did it again and thought she would get away with it by blocking out her parents. She was wrong.

He starts out the video by saying it was for Hannah, her friends that think her posts are cute and parents, who might not be aware of what children are negatively posting about them. So it's about his ego? Give me a break! It's called being a father, and a good one at that. He's making good on his threat while at the same time shaming his spoiled daughter in the same exact method that she had disrespected her parents.

Even the ex-wife, the girl's mother was in agreement with the punishment ("put a bullet in there for me too").

What does it gain over direct interaction? A video posted by the dad on his daughter's Facebook page without her knowledge or permission is more powerful than direct interaction. The direct interaction is going to occur anyway, after the fact. Besides, they tried that before and she did not listen.

Kids are so emotionally tied to their Facebook pages and dad hit her where it hurts. She tried to outsmart him, block him out, hide her posts, one of which is entitled, "To My Parents" where she trashes them. Instead, ole dad demonstrates to her that he is not as stupid as she thinks he is and takes control of her Facebook page. The man is teaching his daughter a lesson that she will never forget.

Since she tried to trick them again and failed, maybe it's time for her to actually start to OBEY her parents. What a novel concept. Is really doing 10 minutes of household chores a day without complaining about it too high a bar for a teen in 2012?

The dad doesn't think so and he helped to give her an attitude adjustment is a very dramatic way.

And, yes, MJZ, Hannah does need a new computer and should get one AFTER she apologizes for her attitude and disobedience. The man obviously loves his daughter and I'm sure he will be quick to forgive her when she demonstrates some maturity and takes responsibility for herself.

[wootah]

I'm sure he will be quick to forgive her when she demonstrates some maturity

How can he expects something from his daughter which he clearly lacks it himself? "Put a bullet in there for me too". What is this, Deadwood?

[Deputy Nutz]

Remember when Zool suggested he put a Cleveland Steamer in the labtop? That was awesome!

[Scott Campbell]

Can't help but think that posting the video was more about the dad's ego than anything else. What does it gain over direct interactiom?



I agree.

[Patler]

That's ridiculous. The girl had been previously grounded for 3 months for doing something similar. The father warned the girl of worst consequences if she did it again. She did it again and thought she would get away with it by blocking out her parents. She was wrong.

He starts out the video by saying it was for Hannah, her friends that think her posts are cute and parents, who might not be aware of what children are negatively posting about them. So it's about his ego? Give me a break! It's called being a father, and a good one at that. He's making good on his threat while at the same time shaming his spoiled daughter in the same exact method that she had disrespected her parents.

Even the ex-wife, the girl's mother was in agreement with the punishment ("put a bullet in there for me too").

What does it gain over direct interaction? A video posted by the dad on his daughter's Facebook page without her knowledge or permission is more powerful than direct interaction. The direct interaction is going to occur anyway, after the fact. Besides, they tried that before and she did not listen.

Kids are so emotionally tied to their Facebook pages and dad hit her where it hurts. She tried to outsmart him, block him out, hide her posts, one of which is entitled, "To My Parents" where she trashes them. Instead, ole dad demonstrates to her that he is not as stupid as she thinks he is and takes control of her Facebook page. The man is teaching his daughter a lesson that she will never forget.

Since she tried to trick them again and failed, maybe it's time for her to actually start to OBEY her parents. What a novel concept. Is really doing 10 minutes of household chores a day without complaining about it too high a bar for a teen in 2012?

The dad doesn't think so and he helped to give her an attitude adjustment is a very dramatic way.

And, yes, MJZ, Hannah does need a new computer and should get one AFTER she apologizes for her attitude and disobedience. The man obviously loves his daughter and I'm sure he will be quick to forgive her when she demonstrates some maturity and takes responsibility for herself.

I guess if you perceive parenting as a competition between the parents and their kids, your analysis makes sense. Otherwise, not so much. He could have demonstrated the same things to her, without showing the world what a great, clever and smart guy he is to have out-witted a teenager.

Much of parenting is setting a good example, showing a better way. She was mad at her parents, so chose to ridicule them on Facebook. He was upset with her, so he ridiculed her on Facebook. Great example. Sometimes it is showing them over and over again, until it finally sinks in. He apparently tried it before, but now stoops to her tactics, instead of convincing her to adopt his earlier ways of dealing with conflict.

In essence, he has affirmed her methods, going behind the back of the person you have conflict with, and embarrass them publicly. Not something I would have affirmed by doing it to my kids, even if they did it to me.

Kids are always emotionally tied to something. So what?

I raised a herd, never looked at it as a competition. We had our conflicts, but I always tried to act as the adult, not stooping to a child's approach.

[MJZiggy]

That's ridiculous. The girl had been previously grounded for 3 months for doing something similar. The father warned the girl of worst consequences if she did it again. She did it again and thought she would get away with it by blocking out her parents. She was wrong.

He starts out the video by saying it was for Hannah, her friends that think her posts are cute and parents, who might not be aware of what children are negatively posting about them. So it's about his ego? Give me a break! It's called being a father, and a good one at that. He's making good on his threat while at the same time shaming his spoiled daughter in the same exact method that she had disrespected her parents.

Even the ex-wife, the girl's mother was in agreement with the punishment ("put a bullet in there for me too").

What does it gain over direct interaction? A video posted by the dad on his daughter's Facebook page without her knowledge or permission is more powerful than direct interaction. The direct interaction is going to occur anyway, after the fact. Besides, they tried that before and she did not listen.

Kids are so emotionally tied to their Facebook pages and dad hit her where it hurts. She tried to outsmart him, block him out, hide her posts, one of which is entitled, "To My Parents" where she trashes them. Instead, ole dad demonstrates to her that he is not as stupid as she thinks he is and takes control of her Facebook page. The man is teaching his daughter a lesson that she will never forget.

Since she tried to trick them again and failed, maybe it's time for her to actually start to OBEY her parents. What a novel concept. Is really doing 10 minutes of household chores a day without complaining about it too high a bar for a teen in 2012?

The dad doesn't think so and he helped to give her an attitude adjustment is a very dramatic way.

And, yes, MJZ, Hannah does need a new computer and should get one AFTER she apologizes for her attitude and disobedience. The man obviously loves his daughter and I'm sure he will be quick to forgive her when she demonstrates some maturity and takes responsibility for herself.
But earlier in this very quote, you suggest that he made a threat and then followed up which was good parenting. In the video he most clearly states that she will not have another computer until she buys it for herself AND reimburses him for the software upgrades he just did. Therefore, by your own statement, to replace the computer after having said that would be bad follow up and bad parenting. He may forgive her. Do you think that if she apologizes to get a new computer that it will be genuine? If so, why? And while he's forgiven her, how long will it be before she forgives him? I don't see humiliating your child as a huge act of mature love. And I don't see impending maturity in this angry girl because the father she's already pissed off at escalated the situation. Humiliating her will not make her less angry. You do realize that children learn best not by punishment, but through positive reinforcement, right? I'm willing to go out on a limb and say she wasn't raised with much of that.

[Kiwon]

But earlier in this very quote, you suggest that he made a threat and then followed up which was good parenting. In the video he most clearly states that she will not have another computer until she buys it for herself AND reimburses him for the software upgrades he just did. Therefore, by your own statement, to replace the computer after having said that would be bad follow up and bad parenting. He may forgive her. Do you think that if she apologizes to get a new computer that it will be genuine? If so, why? And while he's forgiven her, how long will it be before she forgives him? I don't see humiliating your child as a huge act of mature love. And I don't see impending maturity in this angry girl because the father she's already pissed off at escalated the situation. Humiliating her will not make her less angry. You do realize that children learn best not by punishment, but through positive reinforcement, right? I'm willing to go out on a limb and say she wasn't raised with much of that.

The girl is a spoiled teen, a lazy teen, griping about doing a few household chores. I think you are inflating the "angry" part. Yeah, the dad was pissed when he made the video. But do you think he really would deprive his daughter of a basic school need, a laptop, for 3 years? The quality schools I know REQUIRE students to bring a notebook computer to class. He can't practically follow through with that statement even if he wanted to. And he would be wrong NOT to give her a computer AFTER she acknowledges and apologizes for her attitude and behavior and accepts whatever further punishment he deems appropriate.

And I would correct your parenting advice...kids learn best by punishment AND positive reinforcement, not just one or the other. Punishment is part of the real world. To NOT correct your child's wrong attitudes or behavior is bad parenting. Period.

Dad's expectations are: sweep the kitchen floor, wipe off the counter top, empty the dishwasher, make your bed.

But Hannah calls it "slavery." Well, if Hannah calls it slavery then it must be slavery. We better affirm her feelings, wouldn't want to diminish her self-esteem, you know. Shhh....lower your voice, you'll disturb her MTV show she watching on the flatscreen in her room. :roll:

So if those values are acceptable at 15, then how about when she's 32 with a family of her own? Dirty floors, a dirty kitchen, unmade beds and an aversion to house work is preferable to maintaining a clean home? I don't think so. Hannah's parents are simply trying to teach her to how live responsibly.

I would side with the dad any day of the week. He instinctively knows best how to communicate with his own daughter. And using humiliation as a tactic?, absolutely, if that is what will be effective.

This is where your atheist world and my Christian worlds split. Where you see harshness, I see love. Proverbs 27:5 says, "Better is open rebuke than love that is concealed." And there are many other scriptures that I could mention as well.

Sometimes the right and loving thing to do is to publically humiliate a loved one who refuses to listen or acknowledge the wrong path he is going down. Now, probably, King Solomon, never imagined a .45 and a YouTube video but it works. :-)

Modern society may count it as an affront to embarrass a loved one. But to NOT call out wrong or dangerous behavior is not true love in God’s eyes. Remaining silent is NOT love. If someone truly loves someone else then he will take action, even extreme action if necessary, if it will help them see the error of his ways and lead them to make a positive change.

You better believe that there will be a ton of family and hometown friends at Whitney Houston’s funeral this weekend who will be questioning themselves if there was more that they should have done to get her off drugs. Most, no doubt, got caught up in the hype and celebrity and truly did not care for her as a person and they will have regrets now.

Would they have risked their relationship with a drug-dependent Whitney if they had confronted her? Yeah, no doubt, but this weekend they will reflect upon the possible high price of their silence. But for the people who truly loved her and had the courage to risk their relationship by confronting her, they will have the satisfaction of knowing that they tried and did what was the right, responsible, and loving thing to do.

Confronting drug addiction is a little more serious than teaching someone to sweep the floor and respect her parents but the principal is the same - the motivation for intervention is love. That’s why I think Hannah’s fortunate to have the parents that she does.

[MJZiggy]

What bullshit, Kiwon. Why must you always assume that when we disagree it's because athiests (which I'm not by the way) are evil. Yet what if I don't think your proverb is correct just because it was written in a certain book. You may see this as love, but I've lived that kind of love and can tell you that it took decades to repair the relationship and my father never came close to the "love" that this fool exhibited. So which do you value more? Your child's obedience or your child's love? And it's not about coddling or refusing to acknowledge a wrong. There is a difference between correcting wrong and humiliating your child. I don't think you get the distinction. If my kid cleans up after dinner without being told to he gets praised. If he doesn't listen when I ask, he loses computer time. I don't need to go on Facebook and humiliate him. The horrid result of my bad parenting is a teenager who is younger, yet more mature than the one in this example, gets good grades and doesn't need his computer shot. As a matter of fact, he's got one more semester of straight As to go before he earns a new laptop with better gaming features. No reason to think he will not do it as he did it last year. He is an athiest who understands fully that respect is earned and that you can't beat or humiliate someone into giving it to you. I know plenty of "good" Christians who don't begin to understand that message, so please don't try to argue that religious people are somehow better. They just have "being forgiven" as an excuse for when they don't behave well. My athiest son respects me and he knows that I respect and love him. And he knows that he is the one responsible for his behavior, not god.

By the way, I don't think publicly humiliating Whitney Houston would have helped much. She publicly humiliated herself plenty and it didn't seem to have any effect. Yet society seems to reward that, don't they? They want to put flags at half mast for a drug addict who at one time could sing well and the black community wails for a woman who used to be booed for not being "black enough." Go figure.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't see humiliating your child as a huge act of mature love.


Look at how many times we've humiliated Harlan, and to no avail. I'm beginning to think that boy is just a bad seed.

[MJZiggy]

Look at how many times we've humiliated Harlan, and to no avail. I'm beginning to think that boy is just a bad seed.

Perfect example. Maybe we should have used positive reinforcement...:mrgreen:

[Kiwon]

What bullshit, Kiwon. Why must you always assume that when we disagree it's because athiests (which I'm not by the way) are evil. Yet what if I don't think your proverb is correct just because it was written in a certain book. You may see this as love, but I've lived that kind of love and can tell you that it took decades to repair the relationship and my father never came close to the "love" that this fool exhibited. So which do you value more? Your child's obedience or your child's love?

Kiwon don't do Body Shots. And when you're wrong, you're just wrong. I can separate your evilness from your agnosticism. Lighten up..

I'm sorry you and your father had a tough relationship. However, that doesn't invalidate the principal of Proverbs 27:5 in the least. In fact, it's too bad that your dad apparently wasn't aware of Proverbs 22:6 ("Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.") because at it's core the "training" starts with accepting the child as he or she is, not trying to dramatically change him. The image is like working with a young branch that is naturally bent in one direction. The goal is not to suddenly snap it back in the other direction. The goal is to shape it as it naturally grows.

The point I was making, MJZ, is that applying biblical teaching to relationships work. And, at certain times, that may even include public humiliation of a loved one if need be. Even secular psychologists recognize "Intervention" as a tool. But, surprise, surprise, King Solomon suggested it first.

And why do you draw a false dichotomy between obedience and love? A loved and secure child will naturally obey his parents. And he will also respect them as well, especially when he learns that the 10 Commandments includes "Honor your father and mother." It's not a forced loyalty, it's a natural response of love and devotion to God and to his parents.

But a love of others begins with a love for God first (“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ “This is the great and foremost commandment. “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” - Matthew 22:36-40).

Maybe these are just words to you, but they are words to live by for me. They represent God's truth and are an invaluable resource for all relationships. I understand that you believe a secular home is equal or superior to a Christian one. I simply can't agree. A family that has Christ as its center are the most loving and stable familes there are. In good times and bad, they not only survive, they thrive because God blesses those who love and obey Him. I've lived it and I've seen it over and over again.

[MJZiggy]

I'm glad that you admit that you're wrong. My dad was very aware of Proverbs 22:6. It is not true. How many people were "trained up" Catholic and now are athiest. I personally know of several. Your "training" does not accept a child for who he is, rather tries to turn the child into the religious person you want him to be--and it's not working. Since when is an eye for an eye a valid and correct teaching?

The difference in this case between obedience and love is not a false one. You can obey a father and then sit around at his funeral like my brothers did and have a talk about what a lousy father he was. And vow to yourself to raise your child better. My father raised his children that way because he didn't know better. Now we do and all of our children save one came out more confident and successful than we were. Each and every one of my brothers was raised Catholic and we had the 10 Commandments drilled into our heads. We obeyed. It was forced obedience. I'm sorry your biblical logic doesn't work with me. You'll have to come up with something better. You don't seem like you've ever had a crisis of faith. Congratulations for you, but for those who have, realize that you can live a perfectly happy and non-evil (I might add non-judgmental, thanks for judging me when you don't even know me) life with a stable family.

[Joemailman]

And why do you draw a false dichotomy between obedience and love? A loved and secure child will naturally obey his parents. And he will also respect them as well, especially when he learns that the 10 Commandments includes "Honor your father and mother." It's not a forced loyalty, it's a natural response of love and devotion to God and to his parents.

Getting back to the original subject a bit... Doesn't your statement above suggest the possibility that the girl has not been loved by her parents? If she had been loved, would she not, in your words, naturally obey her parents? Instead of being so disrespectful? When I saw that video, I did not see the love of a parent. I saw the father getting even as part of a vicious circle that I suspect has been going back and forth for a while. Revenge is not love. St. Paul told us what love looks and feels like:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

[Upnorth]

Building of this argument, I think teaching those we care about that actions lead to results is very important. Here is a prime example. The action was being a sucky baby about having chores. The result was loss of privilege. If this was the first incident the dad went way overboard, however we know it wasn't. Did he over escalate? Perhaps as we don't know all the steps leading to this result. In the end a self entitled child found out actions have consequences. I am grateful this happened in the home and not at a job or in the courts.

[Joemailman]

We should also keep in mind we've only heard one side of the story.

[Zool]

I guess Deuteronomy 22:13-21 pretty much says it all for me.

[gbgary]

I guess Deuteronomy 22:13-21...


my doctor wants me undergo one of those procedures by i'm holding off as long as i can.

[GrnBay007]

I don't condone violence in any way. I think I posted somewhere in this thread, "until you walk in someone shoes" But man o man even some really good kids can push you to the edge. There are certain times during the teen years they are just not even like themselves and those lines have to be drawn all the more firmer in the sand. I keep reminding myself the raging hormones and all that crap is what is causing them to act like..........................I don't want to say it! :)

Just had to add that since it's been a rough night with the 16 yr. old. lol

[MJZiggy]

I don't condone violence in any way. I think I posted somewhere in this thread, "until you walk in someone shoes" But man o man even some really good kids can push you to the edge. There are certain times during the teen years they are just not even like themselves and those lines have to be drawn all the more firmer in the sand. I keep reminding myself the raging hormones and all that crap is what is causing them to act like..........................I don't want to say it! :)

Just had to add that since it's been a rough night with the 16 yr. old. lol

Did you shoot her computer?

[mraynrand]

Getting back to the original subject a bit... Doesn't your statement above suggest the possibility that the girl has not been loved by her parents? If she had been loved, would she not, in your words, naturally obey her parents? Instead of being so disrespectful? When I saw that video, I did not see the love of a parent. I saw the father getting even as part of a vicious circle that I suspect has been going back and forth for a while. Revenge is not love. St. Paul told us what love looks and feels like:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Ah yes, but there is a distinction between filial and agape love. Sometimes filial love will not look like agape, especially when you have to stand a kid in the corner, or spank a kid for rotten behaviour.

I'd throw out a couple of Proverbs that apply, but I left my "Rick Santorum Old Testament Reader" at home.

[GrnBay007]

Did you shoot her computer?

haha nope. HE lost his phone for awhile and grounded until the school dance on Sat. ....and let me tell you, I have enjoyed being around him with that cell phone gone!!!

[easy cheesy]

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2012/news/120220/josh-powell-3-300.jpg


Nice try, but here's your winner.

Most def the "winner".... our local Crime Stoppers, refreshed with community donations and public outrage, bought the two plots next to these boys to keep the Powell family from planting this "father" next to his sons. With all of the local pressure, this bastard is thankfully not even going to be buried in the same cemetery.

I think they have even reserved a resting place for Susan next to her babies if, and when, they find her and finally bring her home.

[woodbuck27]

I can't say much for his yard.

Maybe he might consider pissing in a bucket.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kl1ujzRidmU

15 year old daughter + disrespectful Facebook post = a laptop with 9 bullet holes in it.

A bit extreme maybe, but it sends a message that got her attention I'd bet.

Ahh .... He was low and to the left with his third shot. That ruined the pattern.

[Deputy Nutz]

And he doesn't even smoke the cig, it just burns out. Wasteful

[KYPack]

And he doesn't even smoke the cig, it just burns out. Wasteful

Nutz, Nutz.

Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

Then, your a mile away from the sumbitch and you've stolen his shoes.

[MJZiggy]

Nutz, Nutz.

Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

Then, your a mile away from the sumbitch and you've stolen his shoes.

And still no one's smoked the cigarette.