Don’t Be Surprised If the Green Bay Packers Release Donald Driver: Fan’s Take

[SnakeLH2006]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10955114

By Joshua Huffman (http://contributor.yahoo.com/user/608729/joshua_huffman.html)


Green Bay Packers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/gnb/) wide receiver Donald Driver (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4863/) turned 37-years-old this month. The Packers already have a deep receiving core that features Greg Jennings (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7801/), Jordy Nelson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8813/), James Jones (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8332/) and Randall Cobb (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/24851/). They're also excited about Tori Gurley (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/25464/), who spent his rookie season on the practice squad. The Packers may also want to create cap space to re-sign players such as Jermichael Finley (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8868/), Scott Wells (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7010/) and Matt Flynn (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8986/).
Now let's combine all of these facts with the fact that Driver isn't one of general manager Ted Thompson's guys. The Packers must pay Driver a $2.2-million roster bonus unless he restructures his contract or he's released.
AdChoices (http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15qg3vck6/M=810691.15022954.14723992.4402949/D=sports/S=2143468696:SKY/_ylt=AuPhAGpWWfN2NI3YbCDjfOOYvMJ_/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1329123585/L=8LZ22EwNdHGh9MDyTyo_ewIzYV9CE084tOEACElu/B=k.tqNGKImhY-/J=1329116385776965/K=L7kYdLIGtRrAPIyF8TMetw/A=6540830/N=0/SIG=11475d5s1/*http://info.yahoo.com/relevantads/) <SCRIPT language='JavaScript1.1' src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/N3285.yahoocom/B2343920.1655;abr=!ie;sz=160x600;click=http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15qg3vck6/M=810691.15022954.14723992.4402949/D=sports/S=2143468696:SKY/_ylt=AuPhAGpWWfN2NI3YbCDjfOOYvMJ_/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1329123585/L=8LZ22EwNdHGh9MDyTyo_ewIzYV9CE084tOEACElu/B=k.tqNGKImhY-/J=1329116385776965/K=L7kYdLIGtRrAPIyF8TMetw/A=6540830/R=1/*;dcopt=rcl;mtfIFPath=nofile;ord=0.741292061928326 8"></SCRIPT>


Driver is aware that there's a good chance that he won't be retained at his current salary. He also claimed that he has no problem with accepting a pay cut. Driver informed WISN-TV (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnKD1asxTPgGDNCkOhdnI485nYcB?slug=sports xchange-000565884_report-driver-would-cut-pay-for-packers):
"The organization knows what I've done on and off the field, and they want to keep me around as long as possible. If that means sitting down and taking pay cuts to stay around, then you take pay cuts to stay around. I've always said it's not about the money for me anymore."
I'd hate to see Driver end his career with anybody else. He has meant so much to the community and the entire organization. Driver was the one player who seemed to play well against the New York Giants (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nyg/) in the 2011-12 NFC divisional playoff game. He's a fan favorite and a surefire candidate for the Packers Hall of Fame.
Driver finished last season with 37 receptions. That was his lowest total in approximately one decade. There's no doubt that he's isn't used as much. That's because Aaron Rodgers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7200/) has a plethora of other weapons that he must keep satisfied. Driver is the least likely to complain if he doesn't get as many receptions as he deserves.
I wouldn't be surprised if Driver were released and remained as a free agent until the situations with Finley, Wells and Flynn were resolved. That would give them some more breathing room for dealing with their key free agents. Ryan Grant (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7635/) and Driver may need to wait it out if they're serious about returning to the organization. Let the chips fall where they may and see how much money is leftover afterward.
I wouldn't hold it against Driver if he signed elsewhere. Just don't go to the Minnesota Vikings (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/min/). Please. I think I speak in behalf of most fans when I say that.


----------------------------------------------


Snake luvs DD....I thought he'd be cut last year. Gurley 2012 is better. Name a 37 yo WR...other than Rice, Monk, or TO...all HOF w stats....let DD go.

[pittstang5]

Heard Hines Ward is in the same situation and also stated that he would be willing to take a pay cut to stay with the Steelers. Sounds like he might be released as well.

This whole situation is a "Catch 22." You'd love to keep Driver who has been a great player and is the definition of a "Packer Person." But if there is someone that can bring more to the table, you almost have to let the "aging vet" go to bring in the new blood.

[ThunderDan]

Heard Hines Ward is in the same situation and also stated that he would be willing to take a pay cut to stay with the Steelers. Sounds like he might be released as well.

This whole situation is a "Catch 22." You'd love to keep Driver who has been a great player and is the definition of a "Packer Person." But if there is someone that can bring more to the table, you almost have to let the "aging vet" go to bring in the new blood.

I think the real issue is that your 3rd, 4th and 5th WR have to be able to play special teams. Even if DD agrees to restructure, I am not sure you can give him a spot unless he plays ST. James Jones played ST last year.

[Smidgeon]

I think the real issue is that your 3rd, 4th and 5th WR have to be able to play special teams. Even if DD agrees to restructure, I am not sure you can give him a spot unless he plays ST. James Jones played ST last year.

So did Jordy Nelson and Nick Collins.

[bobblehead]

Now let's combine all of these facts with the fact that Driver isn't one of general manager Ted Thompson's guys. .

Seriously? This comment alone takes all credibility away from the article. TT has stuck with DD, given him a raise while under contract, and brought him back last year when it was questionable. DD won't be back because he is largely finished. At this point I think TT considers him "one of my guys".

[Little Whiskey]

Seriously? This comment alone takes all credibility away from the article. TT has stuck with DD, given him a raise while under contract, and brought him back last year when it was questionable. DD won't be back because he is largely finished. At this point I think TT considers him "one of my guys".

+1.

I stopped reading after this. are you kidding me?!

[Pugger]

Unless DD is released he'll probably be offered a lower contract and will come back. He'll have to beat out the young kids like Gurley, Smithson and Borel.

[Gunakor]

Derrick Mason was a return guy for Baltimore and Tennessee while sitting atop the depth chart at WR. Your ST guys don't necessarily have to come from #4's and #5's. If DD can play the WR position better than his potential replacement at #5 on the depth chart then I think he stays, whether he can play ST's or not. Being the #1 CB didn't stop Charles Woodson from playing ST's, being #2 WR didn't stop Greg Jennings or Jordy Nelson from playing ST's, being #3 and #4 WR won't stop Randall Cobb and James Jones from playing ST's this year. Our #5 WR can just play WR, because our ST's don't need him and they don't need a replacement. Special teams aside, if you can come up with a better #5 WR than Donald Driver in the entire National Football League then I'm all for moving on, but I can't think of one.

[Smeefers]

Derrick Mason was a return guy for Baltimore and Tennessee while sitting atop the depth chart at WR. Your ST guys don't necessarily have to come from #4's and #5's. If DD can play the WR position better than his potential replacement at #5 on the depth chart then I think he stays, whether he can play ST's or not. Being the #1 CB didn't stop Charles Woodson from playing ST's, being #2 WR didn't stop Greg Jennings or Jordy Nelson from playing ST's, being #3 and #4 WR won't stop Randall Cobb and James Jones from playing ST's this year. Our #5 WR can just play WR, because our ST's don't need him and they don't need a replacement. Special teams aside, if you can come up with a better #5 WR than Donald Driver in the entire National Football League then I'm all for moving on, but I can't think of one.

Then the problem is paying our #5 millions of dollars. If he's willing to go down to league minimum, then we have a steal. If not though, he can get paid what he deserves and go play for a team that needs him as a #3.

[KYPack]

Driver will NOT play for the League minimum. Both the GBP and Driver have way too much pride to even suggest that to a guy that has had a career like DD.

[Smeefers]

Driver will NOT play for the League minimum. Both the GBP and Driver have way too much pride to even suggest that to a guy that has had a career like DD.

All I'm saying is that's normally around what a #5 WR makes. If he makes more than that, he's raking us over the coals if he is indeed the #5 next year.

[Joemailman]

All I'm saying is that's normally around what a #5 WR makes. If he makes more than that, he's raking us over the coals if he is indeed the #5 next year.

Not really. Because of the way the Packers use their receivers, the #5 WR is a more significant player than on a lot of teams. The Packers utilize their WR's more, and their RB's less than a lot of teams. Driver isn't worth 5 million, but anyone who saw him play late in the year knows he's worth more than the vet minimum.

[HarveyWallbangers]

+1.

I stopped reading after this. are you kidding me?!

These Yahoo Fan's Takes articles are terrible. I don't bother wasting my time reading them. Makes me appreciate professional sports writers.

[Kiwon]

These Yahoo Fan's Takes articles are terrible. I don't bother wasting my time reading them. Makes me appreciate professional sports writers.

I felt the same way. I'm about over this citizen journalist stuff. Just because a column is published on some website doesn't mean that it has much merit.

[gbgary]

league minimum would be an insult to DD. the Packers would never do that. asking him to take a realistic cut that both would be ok with is another story. he's more than a 5 anyway.

[KYPack]

Derrick Mason was a return guy for Baltimore and Tennessee while sitting atop the depth chart at WR. Your ST guys don't necessarily have to come from #4's and #5's. If DD can play the WR position better than his potential replacement at #5 on the depth chart then I think he stays, whether he can play ST's or not. Being the #1 CB didn't stop Charles Woodson from playing ST's, being #2 WR didn't stop Greg Jennings or Jordy Nelson from playing ST's, being #3 and #4 WR won't stop Randall Cobb and James Jones from playing ST's this year. Our #5 WR can just play WR, because our ST's don't need him and they don't need a replacement. Special teams aside, if you can come up with a better #5 WR than Donald Driver in the entire National Football League then I'm all for moving on, but I can't think of one.

Derrick Mason returned punts for Tennessee when he was a youngblood. He never took back a kick for the Ravens, Jets
or Texans.
ST is for the young WR's, DB's and LB's.

[pbmax]

Derrick Mason returned punts for Tennessee when he was a youngblood. He never took back a kick for the Ravens, Jets
or Texans.
ST is for the young WR's, DB's and LB's.

And Darrel Green.

[Smidgeon]

league minimum would be an insult to DD. the Packers would never do that. asking him to take a realistic cut that both would be ok with is another story. he's more than a 5 anyway.

Not on the Packers in 2012.

[Cleft Crusty]

I felt the same way. I'm about over this citizen journalist stuff. Just because a column is published on some website doesn't mean that it has much merit.

I resemble this remark

[swede]

I resemble this remark

The remark was old, heavy, dependent upon pharmaceutical assistance, angioplastied three times and in renal failure?

[Joemailman]

The remark was old, heavy, dependent upon pharmaceutical assistance, angioplastied three times and in renal failure?

You forgot about cranky.

[Smeefers]

Not on the Packers in 2012.

Hence the problem. There's nothing wrong with him heading off into the sunset on some other team where he can try and teach his brand of receiving to a group that most likely needs it. Jerry Rice left the 9rs at the twilight of his career too. Some team may see value in him and sign him for more money than we think he's worth and that's all good. Next year, the best he can do though is 4 on the depth chart ahead of only Jones and I realistically don't see that happening. Who knows though? He might beat out Jones and Cobb again and stay at #3 but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Little Whiskey]

These Yahoo Fan's Takes articles are terrible. I don't bother wasting my time reading them. Makes me appreciate professional sports writers.

these are the same dumbasses that wrote and article about why it made sense to trade Braun to the yankees.

[Smidgeon]

Hence the problem. There's nothing wrong with him heading off into the sunset on some other team where he can try and teach his brand of receiving to a group that most likely needs it. Jerry Rice left the 9rs at the twilight of his career too. Some team may see value in him and sign him for more money than we think he's worth and that's all good. Next year, the best he can do though is 4 on the depth chart ahead of only Jones and I realistically don't see that happening. Who knows though? He might beat out Jones and Cobb again and stay at #3 but I wouldn't hold my breath.

He had fewer yards, catches, TDs, and yards per catch than Jones this year. What're the odds he beats him out next year? I say none. Randall Cobb was the only receiver who had fewer catches, and I expect he'll break out next year with a full offseason.

[pbmax]

The remark was old, heavy, dependent upon pharmaceutical assistance, angioplastied three times and in renal failure?

That's how you know its the voice of experience.

[Gunakor]

Then the problem is paying our #5 millions of dollars.


Not necessarily. It's only a problem if it prevents us from signing the rookie draftees, Wells, and Finley. If Ted can do those things and still fit Driver's millions under the cap then it's no problem at all.

[Gunakor]

All I'm saying is that's normally around what a #5 WR makes. If he makes more than that, he's raking us over the coals if he is indeed the #5 next year.


Driver wouldn't be your normal #5 WR. You wouldn't expect him to make what a #5 normally makes. He's not raking us over the coals unless we have to sacrifice something important to keep him.

Ted would know better than any of us what Driver is worth at this stage of his career, and if the appropriate compensation for that value is detrimental to his efforts to build and retain a championship caliber football team. Until HE says that Driver costs too much to keep around then I am left to assume that isn't the case.

[Smeefers]

Driver wouldn't be your normal #5 WR. You wouldn't expect him to make what a #5 normally makes. He's not raking us over the coals unless we have to sacrifice something important to keep him.

Ted would know better than any of us what Driver is worth at this stage of his career, and if the appropriate compensation for that value is detrimental to his efforts to build and retain a championship caliber football team. Until HE says that Driver costs too much to keep around then I am left to assume that isn't the case.

Well, of course Ted knows better than us. I don't think he's going to deal with this shit storm until Driver's bags are already packed. All we can do is speculate so him not saying anything doesn't really bolster your argument.

I think we would have to sacrifice something to keep him. Cap space and a roster spot. Now, I understand that if nobody is using the money, why not give it to Driver. Unfortunately that's just bad business. Having cap space is imperative to growing the franchise with talent. Are you willing to give up an up and coming receiver to keep an ageing veteran? When does it come time to say that yes, Driver can help us now, but Gurley can help us out in 2014.

I also believe that the #5 wr spot is not where you want to have overpaid back ups sitting. I understand overpaying on a back up linebacker or DL or Lb or a highly paid nickel guy. They're going to see the field in a pretty regular rotation and having a solid replacement is crucial. The same cannot be said for the #5. Cobb barely saw the field last year, with 5 guys ahead of him who were getting way more reps and for a variety of reasons no one saw that as a problem. The same is not going to be said about Driver. Would you bring in an aging veteran and over pay him to play third string?

The biggest point I'd like to make is that Driver could be a #3 on 25 teams in the NFL. He could be a #2 on a large number as well. The problem is that he's getting paid like that right now. He still has gas in the tank, it's just that the needle just started hoovering around empty and it's a guessing game on when the car's going to die.

[Gunakor]

When does it come time to say that yes, Driver can help us now, but Gurley can help us out in 2014.

That depends. Is Gurley going to become a star with said development, or is he going to be our #5 year after year like Brett Swain was? Because I'd let Swain rot on the PS for as long as he wants to be there before I'd give up Driver to open up a roster spot. Just because Gurley turned down a roster offer from the Vikings doesn't mean he's ever gonna be better than Driver.

[Pugger]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120210/PKR01/120210198/Green-Bay-Packers-WR-Donald-Driver-willing-to-take-a-pay-cut-to-stay-with-the-team?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|PKR-News

[Smeefers]

That depends. Is Gurley going to become a star with said development, or is he going to be our #5 year after year like Brett Swain was? Because I'd let Swain rot on the PS for as long as he wants to be there before I'd give up Driver to open up a roster spot. Just because Gurley turned down a roster offer from the Vikings doesn't mean he's ever gonna be better than Driver.

You're knit picking one sentence out of the paragraph without using the context. Gurley was just a name thrown out there. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You have to develop young talent, and so you won't know if they'll be a Brett Swain or the next DD. The other option is to keep the aging vet, but you know for sure his shelf life is coming to its end. You're not preparing for the future. If DD was still in the prime of his career, then sure, it's a no brainer, but he's not. He only has a few years left. Sure he may be better than younger talent right now, but what about a year from now? 2?

I'll ask again, Are you willing to give up an up and coming reciever to keep an ageing veteran?
Would you bring in an aging veteran reciever and over pay him to ride the pine?

Man, I hate arguing for DD to be released, I just think it's the smart move. Yuck.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Driver is as good as gone, and it has little to do with money. There are four receivers that may be better than him already, and the Packers have two developmental receivers on the roster that they like in Gurley and Borel. That doesn't even include any possible draft picks.

[smuggler]

I like Driver, but if I know TT, he's going to be off our 53 come opening day. It's time.

[Pugger]

Or he'll take a pay cut and try to beat out the young and coming kids in TC. If he doesn't there are other teams out there that will welcome a vet like DD.

[Smidgeon]

Well, of course Ted knows better than us. I don't think he's going to deal with this shit storm until Driver's bags are already packed. All we can do is speculate so him not saying anything doesn't really bolster your argument.

I think we would have to sacrifice something to keep him. Cap space and a roster spot. Now, I understand that if nobody is using the money, why not give it to Driver. Unfortunately that's just bad business. Having cap space is imperative to growing the franchise with talent. Are you willing to give up an up and coming receiver to keep an ageing veteran? When does it come time to say that yes, Driver can help us now, but Gurley can help us out in 2014.

I also believe that the #5 wr spot is not where you want to have overpaid back ups sitting. I understand overpaying on a back up linebacker or DL or Lb or a highly paid nickel guy. They're going to see the field in a pretty regular rotation and having a solid replacement is crucial. The same cannot be said for the #5. Cobb barely saw the field last year, with 5 guys ahead of him who were getting way more reps and for a variety of reasons no one saw that as a problem. The same is not going to be said about Driver. Would you bring in an aging veteran and over pay him to play third string?

The biggest point I'd like to make is that Driver could be a #3 on 25 teams in the NFL. He could be a #2 on a large number as well. The problem is that he's getting paid like that right now. He still has gas in the tank, it's just that the needle just started hoovering around empty and it's a guessing game on when the car's going to die.

I don't think Driver at this stage in his career is someone you want to be the #2 or #3 receiver. He's lost a step and can't separate anymore. He could still be deadly in zones, but in today's NFL where teams are going three and four wide, I don't think you'd want him to be more than #4. Just my opinion. Now, that's not to say that there aren't 25 teams that could use him as a #3. But I bet the other 7 teams are the ones with the top 7 offenses in the NFL.

[pbmax]

Even though I am in the Donald is at Risk camp, I would like to remind everyone that the cap casualties everyone reports about every Spring usually stick around much longer than expected. Everyone knew Hawk was gone, everyone knew KGB was gone, everyone knew Chillar was gone (Poppinga too) but each came back into camp the next year. In the case of KGB, about 3 years in a row after it was first determined that they could not possibly afford him.

So I would be surprised but not stunned if Donald is smiling in camp next year.

[Patler]

Even though I am in the Donald is at Risk camp, I would like to remind everyone that the cap casualties everyone reports about every Spring usually stick around much longer than expected. Everyone knew Hawk was gone, everyone knew KGB was gone, everyone knew Chillar was gone (Poppinga too) but each came back into camp the next year. In the case of KGB, about 3 years in a row after it was first determined that they could not possibly afford him.

So I would be surprised but not stunned if Donald is smiling in camp next year.

None of the players you mentioned had significant bonuses due in the off season, except Hawk, and when that happened he was released and re-signed. The same could happen with Driver.

Other, not insignificant differences:
- The Packers seem to have their tightest cap situation since TT's first season.
- None of those you mentioned played positions as well-stocked as WR is right now.
- None of those you mentioned had reached an age where their performance should decline, if not fall off completely. KGB's performance eroded, but he was young enough that there was hope for his career to be revitalized. The same can't be said of Driver.

Bubba Franks, Nick Barnett,William Henderson, Donald Lee, Na'ill Diggs are all examples of just the opposite. Guys still under contract who should have been healthy for camp but were released by TT during the off season and not brought back for camp.

[pbmax]

None of the players you mentioned had significant bonuses due in the off season, except Hawk, and when that happened he was released and re-signed. The same could happen with Driver.

Other, not insignificant differences:
- The Packers seem to have their tightest cap situation since TT's first season.
- None of those you mentioned played positions as well-stocked as WR is right now.
- None of those you mentioned had reached an age where their performance should decline, if not fall off completely. KGB's performance eroded, but he was young enough that there was hope for his career to be revitalized. The same can't be said of Driver.

Bubba Franks, Nick Barnett,William Henderson, Donald Lee, Na'ill Diggs are all examples of just the opposite. Guys still under contract who should have been healthy for camp but were released by TT during the off season and not brought back for camp.

I agree that his contract will change. And the odds are he will be let go. But my point was not that Thompson won't whack Driver due to his cost and replaceability. He might and he has done it before. By the primary assumption that he WILL do it, falls into the same category as "he never trades up, only down". True a majority of the time, but never certain. And in the reverse case, he has let people go for whom no obvious replacement was available. We do not know how much value Thompson or McCarthy place on his continued presence on the roster. In conventional terms, it would seem time to let him go. But I though that last year. In the end, the difference might be Cobb, not the PS guys.

The Packers had a tight fit last year after the uncapped year getting the 53 to approx $120 million (with Hawk the primary offender), but otherwise I agree its as tight as 2005. I don't remember Hawk being released, I remember him as a FA for a couple of hours, though that might be what you are saying. Driver's contract might contain a different date for his bonus. Hawk, either by contract or vested status, became a FA at the same time the other unsigned did after the lockout. Certain vets can become FAs immediately and earlier than the new league year.

The presence of the bonus only hastens the decision from Summer and moves it up to Feb/March. Its the same calculus except with post draft cuts, you obviously know how FA and the draft sorted out. The presence of the bonus throws some uncertainty into the equation, but the round numbers it will take to sign a player are known, and thus the cost calculable, the closer FA gets to launch.

[King Friday]

I'm pretty sure that Thompson lets Driver go. His possible production is not the issue...continual roster development is. Thompson firmly believes (and rightfully so) that you need to have a constant group of hungry young talent on the roster. Those young guys who aren't starting are learning none the less, and every week they are in practices and meetings helps them get ready for the day they will eventually be called on. Taking away a developmental roster spot (which is what the #5 WR position truly is) to hang on to an old veteran who has zero upside for you going forward makes no sense.

Letting Driver go does not hurt this team, and could help it by allowing a young kid the chance to get on the roster and begin his learning process for the years ahead...in addition to the cap savings. If Driver wants to play another year or two on a lesser team where he might be able to contribute as a #3 or #4 WR, more power to him. However, he's accomplished more than all but a handful of draft picks taken in the 7th round or later. He has a ring, he has his health, and he has a career in Green Bay as a coach or broadcaster whenever he wishes to enter his next career in life. What more does he really need to accomplish?

[Patler]

I don't remember Hawk being released, I remember him as a FA for a couple of hours, though that might be what you are saying. Driver's contract might contain a different date for his bonus. Hawk, either by contract or vested status, became a FA at the same time the other unsigned did after the lockout. Certain vets can become FAs immediately and earlier than the new league year.

The presence of the bonus only hastens the decision from Summer and moves it up to Feb/March. Its the same calculus except with post draft cuts, you obviously know how FA and the draft sorted out. The presence of the bonus throws some uncertainty into the equation, but the round numbers it will take to sign a player are known, and thus the cost calculable, the closer FA gets to launch.

Hawk was released in March, the day before his $10 million in compensation would have been guaranteed (per his contract) and was resigned the next day, all before the lockout started. The lockout started about a week later. The lockout affected decisions on bonuses for some players around the league who had due dates after the lockout started, lumping them all in with the expired contract FAs after the lockout, but not Hawk. His situation was done and over before the lockout started.

[Gunakor]

I'll ask again, Are you willing to give up an up and coming reciever to keep an ageing veteran?


I know what I have in the aging veteran. I'd be unwilling to take a gamble on an unknown. It would be different perhaps if we were building a team with the goal of winning a title a few years down the line. If Driver were 37 years old back in 2007 and needed to be let go in favor of up and comers I'd have been more supportive of it. But we aren't building anymore, we're competing for championships. The goal is to win in 2012. If the up and comers aren't better right now than a 37 year old Donald Driver then they don't deserve that roster spot. That's how I feel about it.

[Gunakor]

If Driver wants to play another year or two on a lesser team where he might be able to contribute as a #3 or #4 WR, more power to him. However, he's accomplished more than all but a handful of draft picks taken in the 7th round or later. He has a ring, he has his health, and he has a career in Green Bay as a coach or broadcaster whenever he wishes to enter his next career in life. What more does he really need to accomplish?

Perhaps it's not about accomplishment. Maybe it's simply a desire to continue playing the game he loves, playing for the fans that have adopted him and have supported him for his entire career. In the end it doesn't matter what his reasons are, he wants to remain a Packer. We should all be grateful IMO. Even at 37, he has more to offer than any green ass practice squad player.

[Patler]

Perhaps it's not about accomplishment. Maybe it's simply a desire to continue playing the game he loves, playing for the fans that have adopted him and have supported him for his entire career. In the end it doesn't matter what his reasons are, he wants to remain a Packer. We should all be grateful IMO. Even at 37, he has more to offer than any green ass practice squad player.

I would bet that William Henderson felt the same way, May not be what TT thinks is best for the team.

[Gunakor]

I've already said I'm deferring to Ted on this one. But if Driver is let go I'd bet a year's salary that it's for cap reasons, not for development of another player who may or may not pan out. If the money isn't there then you have to let him go. If the money IS there then you have to keep him.

XLVII. If that isn't the focus then the priorties need to be adjusted. A roster of this caliber isn't NEXT year's champions. Assuming Driver's contract could in fact be squeezed under the cap without sacrificing any other proven commodities on this roster, the question is centered around immediate production. Who would be more productive this season as the #5, Donald Driver or (enter name here)? Because the other 4 WR's on our current gameday roster are already the future. Driver you keep around for right now, because he gives you the best chance to win right now. Jennings, Nelson, Finley and Cobb give you the same chance to win next year whether or not Driver is a part of that. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

[Patler]

To be honest, I don't see that Driver gives any better chance to win than others who might fill the #5 spot, and may give less than they do. I would rather have someone like a Gurley who provides size that others don't have and Driver certainly doesn't offer, or someone with ST skills (again perhaps Gurley) which Driver does not have. Even someone with ST coverage skills could get others off the field who you would rather not have to have on the field for kicks. Even a reserve punt/kick returner adds value to the roster.

At this stage, Driver offers very little other than as a receiver, and if he isn't one of the first 4 WRs, his value to the team is almost zero. If the first 4 are healthy, he might even have to be a game day inactive in order to adequately man STs.

[sharpe1027]

With Driver you might still have a serviceable #3 or #4. The already have 4 WRs that are at least that good in Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Jones. Good WRs are often surprise guys found in later rounds, Driver is a prime example, and Cruz is more recent example. The chances of that happening are relatively small, but keeping Driver does mean missing out on that chance.

At this point, I think that it is quite possible that Driver will not be able to cut it as a #3/#4. Odds are that they can find a serviceable #5 WR in what they already have, the draft or FA.

[Scott Campbell]

To be honest, I don't see that Driver gives any better chance to win than others who might fill the #5 spot, and may give less than they do. I would rather have someone like a Gurley who provides size that others don't have and Driver certainly doesn't offer, or someone with ST skills (again perhaps Gurley) which Driver does not have. Even someone with ST coverage skills could get others off the field who you would rather not have to have on the field for kicks. Even a reserve punt/kick returner adds value to the roster.

At this stage, Driver offers very little other than as a receiver, and if he isn't one of the first 4 WRs, his value to the team is almost zero. If the first 4 are healthy, he might even have to be a game day inactive in order to adequately man STs.



His spot on the depth chart means he's now occupying a spot reserved for developmental players with upside.

[Gunakor]

To be honest, I don't see that Driver gives any better chance to win than others who might fill the #5 spot, and may give less than they do.

I do. Regardless of my opinion, that decision shouldn't be make in a board room. If the kids prove it on the field the job is theirs. Even Driver would understand if he were beat out legitimately for a roster spot. You guys are talking about giving it away, gambling on potential future upside. I couldn't do that.

[Brandon494]

I think some are over valuing Gurley here, who is nothing more then another Ruvell Martin. If he accepts a pay cut bring him back, Gurley is obviously not going to beat him out of a job.

[Patler]

I think some are over valuing what Driver has to offer.

[smuggler]

He's not very versatile as a receiver anymore. He can only survive in the slot. He's still capable in that role, but there are other guys who can probably do it almost as well and still run on the outside and be better after the catch, assist on special teams.

The odds are certainly against him. He may show up in amazing shape and make us all eat crow.

[King Friday]

I think some are over valuing Gurley here, who is nothing more then another Ruvell Martin. If he accepts a pay cut bring him back, Gurley is obviously not going to beat him out of a job.

Gurley is a complete unknown...I agree. However, he clearly has upside potential that Driver does not. There is always a CHANCE that Gurley turns out to be good enough to be a starter some day. That is no longer true of Driver.

You won't find that out by leaving an aging WR on the roster who can't help on special teams and whose production could drop off a cliff at any point given his age. Look at Favre...had one of his best seasons in his second to last season, then looked completely different in the last. Even the greats can wake up one morning to find out that age has caught up with them. Driver is a hard worker with a lot of determination, but that isn't enough to fight off Father Time forever. His production has showed continual decline the last few years, and I would only expect that to continue...possibly even more rapidly at this point.

[Brandon494]

I think some are over valuing what Driver has to offer.

7 TDs last season as the 4th option, great locker room guy, veteran leadership, has a good relationship with Rodgers, has agreed to take pay cut, the only WR who showed up against the Giants, and is Packers all-time leading receiver in catches. Yea lets just dump him for a guy who was only a starter one year in college because hes 6-4 and younger.

[Brandon494]

Gurley is a complete unknown...I agree. However, he clearly has upside potential that Driver does not. There is always a CHANCE that Gurley turns out to be good enough to be a starter some day. That is no longer true of Driver.

You won't find that out by leaving an aging WR on the roster who can't help on special teams and whose production could drop off a cliff at any point given his age. Look at Favre...had one of his best seasons in his second to last season, then looked completely different in the last. Even the greats can wake up one morning to find out that age has caught up with them. Driver is a hard worker with a lot of determination, but that isn't enough to fight off Father Time forever. His production has showed continual decline the last few years, and I would only expect that to continue...possibly even more rapidly at this point.

Sorry but Gurley does not have potential to be a starter one day. Just because another team offered him a roster spot off our practice squad does not make the guy a future stud. Also it was the Vikings who try to sign all of our players. Sorry but Ted is not going to cut Donald Driver unless he is unwilling to take a pay cut and the only way Gurley makes the team is if we keep 6 WRs which might happen.

[Cleft Crusty]

I find no reason to suspect that Gurley will be a stud or a starter. He doesn't have to be. To make the team he probably will have to outcompete Driver - and/or (in the not so unlikely event) a draft pick in training camp. Maybe he won't be tremendously better than Driver at WR - certainly Driver's experience will be to Driver's advantage - but the combination of youth and Special Teams play - along with a reasonable training camp showing by Gurley - may be enough to drive away Donald.

[Upnorth]

If driver takes a pay cut he stll needs to beat Gurley. May be he does maybe he doesn't. Ill let the play decide. Also I'm not willing to state Gurley will never start, in fact I hope he does beat out jennings and nelson. I doubt he does but I hope he does.

[King Friday]

Sorry but Gurley does not have potential to be a starter one day.

15 years ago, people said the same about Driver.

[Pugger]

I heard that Gurley is big but not all that fast for a WR.

[Patler]

I think some are over valuing what Driver has to offer.


7 TDs last season as the 4th option, great locker room guy, veteran leadership, has a good relationship with Rodgers, has agreed to take pay cut, the only WR who showed up against the Giants, and is Packers all-time leading receiver in catches. Yea lets just dump him for a guy who was only a starter one year in college because hes 6-4 and younger.

That just proves my point.

"great locker room guy" "veteran leadership" mean little on most teams, and even less on the Packers who have those types in abundance. Those are just words that sound good for a guy who makes the team anyway based on what he can do. No body makes a professional team because of it.

"has a good relationship with Rodgers" - which of the wide receivers doesn't? Jennings and Nelson seem to be more in sync with Rodgers than Driver does.

"has agreed to take a pay cut" - he may still cost more than what he contributes and will certainly be a lot more expensive than a younger player even at the vets' minimum.

"the only WR who showed up against the Giants" - 3 receptions for 45 yards is nothing to brag about, and not much more than the 4/40, 3/39 and 3/38 put up by Jennings, Nelson and Cobb. The ball was thrown to him, he caught it. (I know, there were drops by others that stand out, but I think Driver had an early one too, didn't he?)

"Packers all-time leading receiver in catches" - means nothing for 2012. Favre was the Packers all-time leader for everything QB related, and it meant nothing for him when his time was up, nor should it have. That's all in the past. All that matters is what Driver can do for the team in 2012 and perhaps in the future too.

[Joemailman]

I heard that Gurley is big but not all that fast for a WR.

Yep. He's 6-4 and seems to have good hands. If he had decent speed, he likely would have been drafted. He has some ability, but at this point I'm not sure he brings more than a guy like Ruvell Martin.

[Brandon494]

That just proves my point.

"great locker room guy" "veteran leadership" mean little on most teams, and even less on the Packers who have those types in abundance. Those are just words that sound good for a guy who makes the team anyway based on what he can do. No body makes a professional team because of it.

"has a good relationship with Rodgers" - which of the wide receivers doesn't? Jennings and Nelson seem to be more in sync with Rodgers than Driver does.

"has agreed to take a pay cut" - he may still cost more than what he contributes and will certainly be a lot more expensive than a younger player even at the vets' minimum.

"the only WR who showed up against the Giants" - 3 receptions for 45 yards is nothing to brag about, and not much more than the 4/40, 3/39 and 3/38 put up by Jennings, Nelson and Cobb. The ball was thrown to him, he caught it. (I know, there were drops by others that stand out, but I think Driver had an early one too, didn't he?)

"Packers all-time leading receiver in catches" - means nothing for 2012. Favre was the Packers all-time leader for everything QB related, and it meant nothing for him when his time was up, nor should it have. That's all in the past. All that matters is what Driver can do for the team in 2012 and perhaps in the future too.

Ok simple question, so are we a better team with Driver or Gurley?

[Pugger]

Yep. He's 6-4 and seems to have good hands. If he had decent speed, he likely would have been drafted. He has some ability, but at this point I'm not sure he brings more than a guy like Ruvell Martin.

I know we have them coming out of our ears but perhaps Gurley would make a decent TE?

[MJZiggy]

Ok simple question, so are we a better team with Driver or Gurley?

That remains to be seen. I think they'll fight it out in camp and we'll have an answer come September.

[Scott Campbell]

Apparently there must be a lot of great game film on Gurley for people to have him so thoroughly analyzed.

[King Friday]

Ok simple question, so are we a better team with Driver or Gurley?

Gurley...because he can contribute on special teams and Driver cannot. As a #5 WR, neither would be in a position to produce much on offense. Keeping Driver means you may have to sacrifice elsewhere to find capable ST players, perhaps losing a veteran player at another position of lesser depth. I would also argue that the team has a Super Bowl caliber offense with either guy at #5, so is your simple question even relevant to whether or not the team is a championship contender?

I'd love to keep Driver forever to, but the salary cap era has eliminated the ability for teams to hang on to aging players and remain effective. Look at New England. Do they hang on to guys past their prime? Hell, no. They tend to dump them too early if anything. That is why they remain on top. Foolishly clinging to aging players is one of the biggest mistakes for any franchise. The Steelers used to never do it, but did the last couple years chasing a title...and now it appears they will have several years of rebuilding to be championship caliber again.

I'd rather follow the Patriots example myself.

[Brandon494]

Ok since all you guys are so high on Gurley is it possible we keep 6 WRs and only 4 TEs next season? Remember Quarless had a pretty serious knee injury and might be out at the beginning of the season.

[Patler]

Ok simple question, so are we a better team with Driver or Gurley?

I really don't know. It might not be Gurley that replaces Driver. Maybe it will be Borel. Maybe Smithson. Maybe somebody drafted this year. I just don't think Driver has a lot to offer anymore, and it is time to move on. Time to see what someone else has to offer I simply want to find the best one of the candidates in training camp, and give them the last WR spot and an opportunity.

[King Friday]

Yeah, I agree it may not be Gurley too. He looks like the best candidate to replace Driver at this point, but Thompson could easily draft a WR in the 4th round and suddenly he is the leading candidate.

[Gunakor]

Gurley...because he can contribute on special teams and Driver cannot. As a #5 WR, neither would be in a position to produce much on offense. Keeping Driver means you may have to sacrifice elsewhere to find capable ST players, perhaps losing a veteran player at another position of lesser depth. I would also argue that the team has a Super Bowl caliber offense with either guy at #5, so is your simple question even relevant to whether or not the team is a championship contender?

I'd love to keep Driver forever to, but the salary cap era has eliminated the ability for teams to hang on to aging players and remain effective. Look at New England. Do they hang on to guys past their prime? Hell, no. They tend to dump them too early if anything. That is why they remain on top. Foolishly clinging to aging players is one of the biggest mistakes for any franchise. The Steelers used to never do it, but did the last couple years chasing a title...and now it appears they will have several years of rebuilding to be championship caliber again.

I'd rather follow the Patriots example myself.


Where did Gurley contribute on ST's last year? How about Driver? Oh, neither one of them played ST's last year? I see. Then I fail to understand why everyone is concerned with ST's. Our ST's could be made up of guys who are not necessarily #5 WR on the depth chart. Why does the #5 HAVE to play ST's? Why can't #'s 2-4 play ST's while #1 and #5 play strictly WR?

Anyone who watched that game a month ago knows Driver has more to offer than anybody on the practice squad does. That much is clear. If Ted drafts someone who beats out Driver for a job come August that's one thing. If you give up Driver's roster spot to an unknown in March you're crazy. Let it be settled on the field for crying out loud. If Driver beats out his competiton on the field for that roster spot then we aren't foolishly hanging on to him, rather, we're hanging on to the best chance we have at a ring in XLVII. Don't you think we owe him at least a fair opportunity to keep his job before shoving him out the door?

[Pugger]

Seeing Gurley was on the practice squad of course he didn't contribute on ST's last season. The only way Driver will return is if he takes a pay cut- which he has said he's willing to do. If he beats out these young guys in TC then that is great. If not, he'll play for another team in 2012.

[sharpe1027]

I don't understand all the focus on Gurley. That wasn't the point of much of the discussion. He's just one practice squad player that is as likely to be cut next year as he is to be on the team. It may be that Driver is better than anyone else they bring in, whether through the draft, from the practice squad or as a free agent. Then again, it may be that they find an upgrade. It might be Gurley, but it's more likely to be a drafted WR or FA signing.

Driver was fine last year, but he was noticeably less effective than his previous year. At some point the decline will be too much to justify a roster spot and with the full set of quality WRs already in place the competition for the last spot or two should be fierce.

[Zool]

We will be carrying 4 wr's, 6 TE's and 5 FB's this year. No room for either Driver or Girly

[sharpe1027]

Along with two punters so they can use an innovative multiple punter formation to improve special teams.

[pittstang5]

I think a huge question here is, and it seems we keep getting away from it, is, will Driver even make it to Training Camp? His bonus or whatever is due BEFORE TC. He will have to take a pay cut, restructure...whatever BEFORE TC. TT will have to decide whether Driver will be a part of the 2012 Packers BEFORE TC.

We can argue all day that if given the chance, Driver can beat out Gurley, Borel...whoever, but he has to be on the roster BEFORE TC in order to do that. Just considering TT's history with older players and looking at this particular position and the depth the Packers have - I think TT let's him go early so he has an opportunity to latch on to a team before training camp starts. Do I want this - Hell no! I love Driver, but that's what I feel is going to happen.

[sharpe1027]

I think most people are guessing that Driver would restructure to remove that bonus if he is given the option of that or being cut. Maybe not, but that would be my guess.

[Pugger]

I don't understand all the focus on Gurley. That wasn't the point of much of the discussion. He's just one practice squad player that is as likely to be cut next year as he is to be on the team. It may be that Driver is better than anyone else they bring in, whether through the draft, from the practice squad or as a free agent. Then again, it may be that they find an upgrade. It might be Gurley, but it's more likely to be a drafted WR or FA signing.

Driver was fine last year, but he was noticeably less effective than his previous year. At some point the decline will be too much to justify a roster spot and with the full set of quality WRs already in place the competition for the last spot or two should be fierce.

Evidently other teams were showing interest in Gurley and Borel and to keep them we upped their salaries to rookie scale instead of PS so some of us are curious to see why these teams were sniffing around and why these 2 players got these raises even tho they stayed on the PS. We shall see come TC this summer.

[sharpe1027]

Evidently other teams were showing interest in Gurley and Borel and to keep them we upped their salaries to rookie scale instead of PS so some of us are curious to see why these teams were sniffing around and why these 2 players got these raises even tho they stayed on the PS. We shall see come TC this summer.

Fair enough. An equally likely scenario is a WR gets drafted and impresses early. That's happened pretty consistently - Murphy, Jennings, Jones, Nelson and Cobb.

[Patler]

This is what piqued my interest in Gurley at the end of TC last year:


The 6 foot four inch tall Gurley has an incredible wingspan of 83.5 inches that far exceeded anybody else at the NFL Combine. His long reach allowed him to block five punts during the Packers training camp sessions to make an immediate impression on the coaching staff. For a team that hasn’t blocked a regular season punt since 2003, the prospect of this added weapon has forced Green Bay to at least think about carrying six receivers.

and this:


All along, he wanted to leave college a year early for the pros. So, thinking ahead, the wide receiver asked to play on special teams as a junior. In addition to compiling 44 catches for 465 yards and four touchdowns, Gurley lined up as the left tackle on kickoff returns, the gunner on the punt team and he rushed off the edge on punt returns.

and this:


To compensate, Gurley relies on focus and body control. With the Gamecocks, he never dropped a pass. And at 83½ inches, Gurley had the longest arm-span among wide receivers at the NFL scouting combine. Alabama's Julio Jones was next at 81¾. No other receiver eclipsed 80.

It very-well might amount to nothing. But the guy seems to be trying to maximize what he has. You have to like his focus and determination.

[hoosier]

This is what piqued my interest in Gurley at the end of TC last year:


The 6 foot four inch tall Gurley has an incredible wingspan of 83.5 inches that far exceeded anybody else at the NFL Combine.



If he makes the team this year his nickname will be the Condor.

[swede]

Mad Stork, Jay, Martin, Robbins, Fisher, Hawk, Herron...

Condor fits in okay.

[Patler]

If he makes the team this year his nickname will be the Condor.

Too late, they already gave him a nickname:


He has blocked five punts during training camp practices this summer, nearly got his hands on one in last Friday's preseason game against the Indianapolis Colts and people are actually referring to him as a Pterodactyl.It has been used in national articles. The above is from ESPN.

[hoosier]

Condor is cooler. Syndey Pollack would never have had done a film callled "Three Days of the Pterodactyl."

[Cheesehead Craig]

Thank goodness you didn't pick the Vulture.
http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/c/ca/Vulture_001.gif

[SnakeLH2006]

I'm pretty sure that Thompson lets Driver go. His possible production is not the issue...continual roster development is. Thompson firmly believes (and rightfully so) that you need to have a constant group of hungry young talent on the roster. Those young guys who aren't starting are learning none the less, and every week they are in practices and meetings helps them get ready for the day they will eventually be called on. Taking away a developmental roster spot (which is what the #5 WR position truly is) to hang on to an old veteran who has zero upside for you going forward makes no sense.

Letting Driver go does not hurt this team, and could help it by allowing a young kid the chance to get on the roster and begin his learning process for the years ahead...in addition to the cap savings. If Driver wants to play another year or two on a lesser team where he might be able to contribute as a #3 or #4 WR, more power to him. However, he's accomplished more than all but a handful of draft picks taken in the 7th round or later. He has a ring, he has his health, and he has a career in Green Bay as a coach or broadcaster whenever he wishes to enter his next career in life. What more does he really need to accomplish?

This. Bye DD....He's great on TV.

[Upnorth]

Two thing standout to me. If we keep 6 wr's then Driver becomes attractive again. As pointed out by Patler somewhere Driver is cheap until tc when he is due a roster bonus. That will give us time to see who is the right player to keep and not rush to cut.