IF I am TT, HERE IS MY PLAN

[Bretsky]

Lay it out there.......hopefully this can lead to some good old fashion tassling, name calling, and debate

I am Ted, Take One

First off, I'm hitting up the offense.

Flynn to win is good as gone; Payton Manning soon to be a free agent does not help TT convince two teams they need to give up belove draft picks for Matt Flynn. So I wish Flynn well and focus on other spots of strength to accumulate some picks.

Scott Wells.......I'll give him a fair offer, but I won't overpay. Nick Mangold signed for a seven year FIFTY FIVE million dollar deal. Rumors are Wells is looking for a blockbuster. The four to five mil/yr range may be doable, but if Wells is seeking top money I let him walk and sign an average center as there will be other free agents out there.

Sorry Chad....love ya....but gotta let you go. It's time to allow Marshmellow Newhouse or Derrick Sherrod or TJ Lang to start on this unit. You are a salary cap casualty; I wish you well and save money there.

I either Franchise Finley or lock him up to a four year deal averaging twenty to twenty five mil/year. If I franchise him I tell him to work his ass off and we'll make him rich next year.

At WR, the obvious answer stares us in our faces. TRADE JAMES JONES. I'll take a fifth for him. In reality he's worth no more and teams didn't exactly line up for him last year. If a fifth doesn't work, take a high sixth. He's a marginal route runner and he lacks speed. I think Jennings is our clear one, Jordy a strong two, and Randall Cobb can be a three. Driver played hurt last year but when healthy he can still function as a three if needed. So you have a stellar four WR's for the next two to three years. Open up the last spot for a developmental guy with upside.

Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Driver, and Finley........that's still as good as it gets for a receiving core.

At TE,, I'd also TRADE Andrew Quarless. Take a fifth or sixth for him. Dude's ok but we've got star talent there, DJ Williams appears to be a smooth route runner, and honestly Ryan Taylor was dynamic on special teams. Tom Crabcree is still a punishing blocker at times. We're fine without Quarless so trade his ass while we still can.

Obviously, if I'm TT I'm building through the draft and for the most part avoiding free agency unless my team is mostly devoid of talent.........however........I'm taking a dip at one position this year. I'm going out and signing a veteran cost effeitive safety as a Free Agent. I want a smart leader in the mold of Eugene Robinson...minus the hooker......Brian Dawkins comes to mind....he's near the end and reportedly may be let go. The NYG picked up Deon Grant...marginal starter but good enough to win and definitely better than Peprah.

Speaking of the secondary, I'm letting go the last piece of our second round nightmare in Pat Lee. Pat Lee and Brian Brohm can come back in five years to celebrate the 2nd round bust club. He's alright on specials but we can't house so many of those guys on the Pack anymore. And I'm keeping Jarrett Bush. Red's starting up his fan club and every team needs Bush. Dude is one of the best special teamers in the NFL....however....we only keep one marginal cover guy who plays special teams thsi year.

LBers....it's a free for all. I'm bringing in plenty of help from the draft and I'm letting the team know while Bishop and Matthews are starters the other two positions are up for grabs.

DL.....plenty of help from the draft as well.....we badly missed Cullen Jenkins.....and we badly need some upfield ability to rush the passer. It's not there anymore and Clay Matthews suffered for it this year.

Speaking of the draft, I'm trading out of round one. I've witnessed the past few years many piss on the measurable type gems .......Brooks I'm a baller Reed....comes to mind.....being swapped in the thirty two to fourty five range......and I'm aiming to get two picks in that range. So I trade out of round one and pick up a third......and then I'm making every effort I can to package a third and fourth to jump back into round two.

I'm targeting two to four playmakers I can swap in that range

Vinny Curry...future star....is one. Mike Maybin finally came to his senses and rates him right along with Nick Perry.
Speaking of draft..there is a reason we defense sucked.......we need some playmakers......I'm going pass rush........pass rush.......and more pass rush........combine that with a legit DL.....maybe two....with a Safety or CB......

Piss on the offensive side. I maybe grab a scatback speedster...aka...in the Sproles mold..if one is there.....otherwise....I just grab a OL and a QB and the rest of the portfolio of multiple draft picks going to

defense defense defense defense defense defense.

It should send a message to that enire unit that their lack of production was completely unacceptable and jobs will be held accountable this year.....aka....heads could roll.

OK RATS.............GO ON RECORD....feel free to criticize mind.....but don't be spineless.................ADD YOUR PLAN........let's the debates begin !!!!!!

[Patler]

I either Franchise Finley or lock him up to a four year deal averaging twenty to twenty five mil/year. If I franchise him I tell him to work his ass off and we'll make him rich next year.
! I think $20-25 million per year is a bit much for Finley. Your career as a GM will be short-lived. :lol:

[Bretsky]

! I think $20-25 million per year is a bit much for Finley. Your career as a GM will be short-lived. :lol:


Come on dude.......you know how I think......that was a 4 yr deal.......lol

[Joemailman]

At WR, the obvious answer stares us in our faces. TRADE JAMES JONES. I'll take a fifth for him. In reality he's worth no more and teams didn't exactly line up for him last year. If a fifth doesn't work, take a high sixth. He's a marginal route runner and he lacks speed. I think Jennings is our clear one, Jordy a strong two, and Randall Cobb can be a three. Driver played hurt last year but when healthy he can still function as a three if needed. So you have a stellar four WR's for the next two to three years. Open up the last spot for a developmental guy with upside.

Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Driver, and Finley........that's still as good as it gets for a receiving core.

At TE,, I'd also TRADE Andrew Quarless. Take a fifth or sixth for him. Dude's ok but we've got star talent there, DJ Williams appears to be a smooth route runner, and honestly Ryan Taylor was dynamic on special teams. Tom Crabcree is still a punishing blocker at times. We're fine without Quarless so trade his ass while we still can.

James Jones isn't going anywhere, and if he were traded, he'd be worth at least a 3. Driver is 37 and will likely have more trouble staying healthy, not less.

You wouldn't get a thing for Quarless as he's coming off a serious knee injury. Quarless may well spend all of 2012 on the Packers IR list.

[Bretsky]

James Jones isn't going anywhere, and if he were traded, he'd be worth at least a 3. Driver is 37 and will likely have more trouble staying healthy, not less.

You wouldn't get a thing for Quarless as he's coming off a serious knee injury. Quarless may well spend all of 2012 on the Packers IR list.


a THREE for Jones ? You are smoking da Packer Homer Dubeeees. I don't think we'd fine a team in the NFL who would give up a three. Jones is very average. Guys like Jordy run great routes. Some guys have extreme speed. Jones has neither. He'll always be ok in our system because we're pass happy. IMO Cobb is a better player....more upside, and he'd put up better numbers with the same playing time. There was a reason the interest for him was limited during free agency. He wasn't getting offers. He's just not that good IMO.

[Joemailman]

I don't understand why you would practically want to give away a guy who had 635 yards and 7 TD's. The Packers are going to probably have 3 4th round picks and possibly as many as 4 7th round picks. They're not exactly desperate for another late round pick. Jones is an integral part of this offense and would start for a lot of teams.

[Bretsky]

IMO is TT could get a third for Jones he'd take the pick and run; I'd take that pick and get another pass rusher
He might start for a few teams with piss poor number two's but I don't think I'd say many. I think Cobb is already just as good or better . Just making room.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jones wouldn't fetch a 3rd. Teams could have had him for nothing more than a few million/year last year, and I don't think most personnel people change their minds easily. That being said, why trade Jones and keep Driver? Jones is the better and cheaper player. Now, I don't know what Driver would want, but he's good for another year at most IMHO. Is a better and cheaper player worth giving up for a late round pick? I don't think so.

[Brandon494]

Why in the hell would you trade James Jones when he is signed for cheap as hell for a 5th or 6th round player who most likely wouldn't even make the team?

[ThunderDan]

Lay it out there.......hopefully this can lead to some good old fashion tassling, name calling, and debate

I am Ted, Take One



Bretsky-

Great idea for a thread. Pretty tough to be the first guy in the pool!

[Smeefers]

Why in the hell would you trade James Jones when he is signed for cheap as hell for a 5th or 6th round player who most likely wouldn't even make the team?

What He said.

Okay, I'm TT? Well, after a night of cocaine, binge drinking and strippers, I'd wander down to HQ and make racists jokes in front of the media...

I kid I kid

Well, I offer Wells a deal I know he won't take, then look around the league to see if I can replace him for cheap. If not, assign one of my 67 draft picks this year to getting a center or someone who can play that position in the future. Leave the actual assignments to MM. Then I do my very best to redo the deal with Driver and keep him here. Despite what everyone thinks, I'm not a heartless bastard and I realize the things Driver brings to the team along with his local influence. While I'm working with driver, I do everything in my power to lock up Fin. I'm not going to go balls out on him, but I will give him an escalating contract that has a decent base pay with enough incentives to keep him happy, but not so many that he's going to demand the ball all the time. If he wants to get paid like Antonio Gates, he's going to have to play like him. Give him a 3-4 year deal so he can renegotiate in a few years if he really does take off.

Jarret Bush Stays and gets paid decent. Flynn is gone, free and clear. No BS. Grant is gone unless he's willing to take another pay cut. Howard green is gone. Pat Lee is gone. Eric Walden is gone, with a boot print on his ass. Clifton is gone unless he's willing to take a pay cut. I offer older FA's sub par deals with the hopes of them finally getting a SB ring. You never know, might pick up a John Abrahms, Sione Pouha or a Robert Mathis. With these guys I'm looking for role players, not starters.

In the draft, I take the bpa on defense unless someone falls into my lap that I cannot refuse. If Andrew luck falls to me, I'm taking him. Damn the consequences. For all of you who think that's crazy, remember when a different #1 prospect fell to us? Yeah, it can happen. I remember Bulaga tumbling down the draft too, and that just happened to match a need we had, but I think we would have taken him regardless. Otherwise, I'm drafting for need. Despite what people may say, I'm willing to move up in the draft to get a need, but as always I'm willing to fall back if I think it will net me more picks for the same talent level. I don't move back if I don't think I'm going to get the value out of the picks they're offering. This is a pretty deep draft, so I probably will move back, but if a stud is still around at 20, I can see myself jumping up to get him. One of my late round draft picks will be a starter in 3 years. Count on it.

[ND72]

WOW...Bretsky, if I had gotten hired in Fort Atkinson, we might have to go for a beer over this one...




[QUOTE]Flynn to win is good as gone; Payton Manning soon to be a free agent does not help TT convince two teams they need to give up belove draft picks for Matt Flynn. So I wish Flynn well and focus on other spots of strength to accumulate some picks.
Agreed with this.


Scott Wells.......I'll give him a fair offer, but I won't overpay. Nick Mangold signed for a seven year FIFTY FIVE million dollar deal. Rumors are Wells is looking for a blockbuster. The four to five mil/yr range may be doable, but if Wells is seeking top money I let him walk and sign an average center as there will be other free agents out there.
Yeah, I donno. I really see the value in a solid center. The Vikings gave up on Matt Birk, and he's still doing well...granted he's not as undersized.


Sorry Chad....love ya....but gotta let you go. It's time to allow Marshmellow Newhouse or Derrick Sherrod or TJ Lang to start on this unit. You are a salary cap casualty; I wish you well and save money there.
Agreed.


I either Franchise Finley or lock him up to a four year deal averaging twenty to twenty five mil/year. If I franchise him I tell him to work his ass off and we'll make him rich next year.
What is this the NBA? $20-25 mil a year? :) I get ya though, 4 years $20-25 mil. Seems ok. He may want more. Even though I was the first to say he's gotta go...he's gotta stay, and we have to keep a guy with as much potential on this team.


At WR, the obvious answer stares us in our faces. TRADE JAMES JONES. I'll take a fifth for him. In reality he's worth no more and teams didn't exactly line up for him last year. If a fifth doesn't work, take a high sixth. He's a marginal route runner and he lacks speed. I think Jennings is our clear one, Jordy a strong two, and Randall Cobb can be a three. Driver played hurt last year but when healthy he can still function as a three if needed. So you have a stellar four WR's for the next two to three years. Open up the last spot for a developmental guy with upside.

Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Driver, and Finley........that's still as good as it gets for a receiving core.
um...No. You cut Driver and keep Jones. Jennings, Nelson, Jones, Cobb are our future at WR. You bring in one of those PS guys to be a special teamer.


At TE,, I'd also TRADE Andrew Quarless. Take a fifth or sixth for him. Dude's ok but we've got star talent there, DJ Williams appears to be a smooth route runner, and honestly Ryan Taylor was dynamic on special teams. Tom Crabcree is still a punishing blocker at times. We're fine without Quarless so trade his ass while we still can.
Likely can't trade Quarless if you wanted, cause he probably won't even play this season. Quarless has something, not great, but he's a solid #2/3 TE, with hopes that Williams grows and passes him up. I like our 3 TE's...Crabtree however, I'm not a fan of.


Obviously, if I'm TT I'm building through the draft and for the most part avoiding free agency unless my team is mostly devoid of talent.........however........I'm taking a dip at one position this year. I'm going out and signing a veteran cost effeitive safety as a Free Agent. I want a smart leader in the mold of Eugene Robinson...minus the hooker......Brian Dawkins comes to mind....he's near the end and reportedly may be let go. The NYG picked up Deon Grant...marginal starter but good enough to win and definitely better than Peprah.
If collins has to retire, Woodson goes to Safety, and we need a 3rd CB more than anything. The talent depth at DB scares me.


Speaking of the secondary, I'm letting go the last piece of our second round nightmare in Pat Lee. Pat Lee and Brian Brohm can come back in five years to celebrate the 2nd round bust club. He's alright on specials but we can't house so many of those guys on the Pack anymore. And I'm keeping Jarrett Bush. Red's starting up his fan club and every team needs Bush. Dude is one of the best special teamers in the NFL....however....we only keep one marginal cover guy who plays special teams thsi year.
Pat Lee blows, House who knows, and I personally can't stand Bush...sometimes ya gotta cut the Bush.


LBers....it's a free for all. I'm bringing in plenty of help from the draft and I'm letting the team know while Bishop and Matthews are starters the other two positions are up for grabs.
I know it's still rag on Hawk, but you have 3 starters in Matthews, Bishop, Hawk..now you need a 4th. You could cut the rest of the LB's and start over IMO.


DL.....plenty of help from the draft as well.....we badly missed Cullen Jenkins.....and we badly need some upfield ability to rush the passer. It's not there anymore and Clay Matthews suffered for it this year.
Our ILB suffered also. In the 34 those 3 guys need to take on all double teams to keep guys off of our ILB, and I didn't see that happening this year. We need a Cullen Jenkins type to apply pressure and eat blocks. If we're going to rag on players, Raji can be thrown into that bunch, he sadly underperformed.


Speaking of the draft, I'm trading out of round one. I've witnessed the past few years many piss on the measurable type gems .......Brooks I'm a baller Reed....comes to mind.....being swapped in the thirty two to fourty five range......and I'm aiming to get two picks in that range. So I trade out of round one and pick up a third......and then I'm making every effort I can to package a third and fourth to jump back into round two.
I'm targeting two to four playmakers I can swap in that range
We play too much madden at times. I don't argue trading out of round 1, but TT doesn't move around that much with that much thought process. Truth is, there is a lot of bottom end 1st round talent this year, so unless we trade up, I don't see us moving anywhere. TT will find a guy at our current spot. 2-4 playmakers?? Are you talking sitting there for us to take, or for us to actually take? Cause if we could get 2 playmakers in every draft, TT would be king.


Vinny Curry...future star....is one. Mike Maybin finally came to his senses and rates him right along with Nick Perry.
Speaking of draft..there is a reason we defense sucked.......we need some playmakers......I'm going pass rush........pass rush.......and more pass rush........combine that with a legit DL.....maybe two....with a Safety or CB......
Yes.


Piss on the offensive side. I maybe grab a scatback speedster...aka...in the Sproles mold..if one is there.....otherwise....I just grab a OL and a QB and the rest of the portfolio of multiple draft picks going to
People made fun of me, but LaMichael James looks good in Green. Just sayin...


defense defense defense defense defense defense.
And as we all know, TT does nothing we expect.

[Pugger]

Quarless and his injury will make him untradeable so he'll start the season on the PUP list. Besides, he's one of the better blocking TEs on the roster and is a nice receiver. Even if he were healthy I wouldn't trade him unless I got an offer I couldn't refuse.

Finley will get the TE tag if I can't get a deal done in the next week.

According to the MJS I gave Wells an offer but he wasn't thrilled. I'll now see what kind of interest he gets from other teams. If Wells leaves I might have to think about finding his replacement.

Trade Jones? :lol: The poor schmuck got very little offers as a FA so nobody is gonna give us anything for him now.

Cliffy will stay only if he takes a pay cut. The same with Driver. I'd let Grant test the FA waters. Grant might be back if he gets the same kind of offers Jones got last year. Then these guys can fight for their football lives in TC.

I'd take the best pass rusher on the board in the first no matter what position he plays. Evidently there are several collegiate DEs that will most likely end up as LBers in the NFL anyway. I might try to move up like I did with Clay if there is somebody there I really want. It will depend upon how many compensatory picks we get this year.

[Smidgeon]

Quarless and his injury will make him untradeable so he'll start the season on the PUP list. Besides, he's one of the better blocking TEs on the roster and is a nice receiver. Even if he were healthy I wouldn't trade him unless I got an offer I couldn't refuse.

+1

And I'm not convinced Crabtree's more than replaceable.

[Ballboy]

OK.....here are my dumbass ideas:


Flynn - gone, wish we could work something for a sign and trade, but dont think that will work.

Clifton - paycut or gone. He really mpressed me with his play in the postseason. Not sure if Sherrod will be ready, if not I trust the off season workouts will help Newhouse.

Wells - offer him what we can, around 4 million per. If not, EDS played OK at guard. I really hate switching centers, especially with the above Clifton gone.

Finely - again, resign. I would think the 3.5-4 Million per year. He should be franchised at least.

Driver - Pay cut. Let him know our long term plans, maybe even offer a spot in our PR department or coaching after he is done.

Jones - I really dont think we should do anything, but since above posters mentioned it, see if someone will give us a 3rd or 4th for him; if so let him go because I see Cobb and the two guys from PS as getting a long look this year.

Hawk - I really dont know the numbers, but Smith played well at ILB and if it wouldnt cost us much and save us more, trade or cut him(trades rarely happen in NFL).

Collins - IF he can play or if he cant, that is the big question. I dont think Woodson wants to move to S yet. Either way, we need to upgrade our DB's both for nickel and dime. Lee never made a jump, House we havent seen and Bush is an elite ST player. That said, not sure any of the above are DB's in the NFL.

As for the draft, I hope and pray the first three rounds are used on defense. We have a luxory here in that even if we dont touch the offense it will still rank near the top in the NFL next year. Would I like to get a top RB.....sure, but will MM use him? Isnt the more glaring hole on the defensive side of the ball?

I dont care who our backup QB is, if AR is out, we are not Super Bowl contenders.

We have or should have many late round picks, this can build our OL depth and other positions to take flyer on such as a RB that slips. I would love it if TT moves up in the first using the 4th round pick.

[Bossman641]

No chance does anybody give up a 3rd or 4th round pick for Jones.

I haven't studied the draft at all, but here are my quick thoughts.

Offer Wells a deal just below that of the top 5 centers, I'd say around $5m a year. If he takes it great, if not, thank him and move on. There are plenty of FA centers available, and we have too many other important players to pay to use that much on a center.

Also, don't see anybody making a move for Quarless. PUP him to start the year. Keep 6 WR to start the year, last year's 5 + Gurley, Borel, whoever. When it comes time for Quarless to come off PUP, things may have sorted themselves out already.

Draft heavy on D.

We all know TT likes to turn over the bottom third of the roster. I fully expect to see guys like Green, Wynn, Wilson, Jones, Lee gone. I'm thinking Walden and Zombo get one more go around, hopefully with competition from So'oto and a high draft pick.

Real question mark for me is at RB. With Starks unable to stay healthy and Green coming off knee injury, does Grant get another year? Hard to imagine them keeping those 3 and Saine. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Bossman641]

Oh ya, I also send Clifton packing. I just don't see how he can be counted on any longer, and his inability to take reps with the first team OL will only hurt them. I'd like to see Sherrod take over at LT, but if not, I feel good enough about Newhouse. He certainly had his struggles, but seems like a smart player and learned from his mistakes.

Finley - signed long term or given the franchise tag

Flynn - just don't see how he can be tagged, even if Finley is signed. Packers are too near the cap ceiling and don't have the room to fit his number.

[Scott Campbell]

B,

Your suggestions aren't nearly the complete disaster I was expecting. Mostly agree, except for a few minor quibbles:

1) Quarless is horribly damaged goods. You can't get anything in return for him right now.
2) I question whether the motive for your Jones move was just to save Driver for another year. I actually wouldn't mind saying goodbye to both of them if there are big upside developmental players waiting in the wings.

[sharpe1027]

I agree with the responses suggesting that Quarless is not going to be worth a bag of used footballs after his injury. I would go a step further. I doubt anyone would have traded much of anything for him even before the injury.

J. Jones has be nothing if not inconsistent. Given his familiarity with the offense, he probably has as much value to the Pack as to any other team. It is doubtful that they would get good value for him.

[Upnorth]

So my two cents,

Finley gets an incentive laden contract, not linked to actual catches but efficency per catch (catch rate, ypc yac, etc)
Offer Wells up to 5 mil per year, he is our most important free agent (OBLOO 39) also i would use the Franchise tag on him if i have to. Our offence is awesome, dont let it fall apart by letting the line go to poop.
Driver, restructure and let him compete in training camp.
Grant I try to get for half of what he costs now, if not see you later (and I am a Grant fan).
Lee is gone.
Bush I resign up to 1 mil/yr max.
Walden i try to get for as close to minimum as possible, and there wont be a market for him (i believe). He is a good back up but that is all.
Green gets a minimum contract as a backup as well.
I draft DE, or OLB in first.
trade up in second by packaging 2nd and 4th to get DE or OLB
Trade back into second by packaging 3rd and 4th and 5th for saftey.
Pick a developmental QB.
Pick a cb and ol as well.

Also i continue praying for healing of Collins.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Screw trading down or waiting for BPA to fall into your lap. Trade up and get Melvin Ingram. The window is now, gotta take advantage of it by getting a player that would be a great help to the defense now and in many years to come.

[ND72]

Screw trading down or waiting for BPA to fall into your lap. Trade up and get Melvin Ingram. The window is now, gotta take advantage of it by getting a player that would be a great help to the defense now and in many years to come.

I'm in on that plan!

[RashanGary]

Bretsky-

Great idea for a thread. Pretty tough to be the first guy in the pool!


Yup, it takes a little courage and thought to lay out an idea. It doesn't take nearly as much to poke holes in it.

[Joemailman]

I'd love to have Ingram, bit I think he's going to go pretty high, as in top 15. It would probably cost the Packers their 1st, 2nd and 3rd to move up that high.

[Joemailman]

Speaking of the draft, I'm trading out of round one. I've witnessed the past few years many piss on the measurable type gems .......Brooks I'm a baller Reed....comes to mind.....being swapped in the thirty two to fourty five range......and I'm aiming to get two picks in that range. So I trade out of round one and pick up a third......and then I'm making every effort I can to package a third and fourth to jump back into round two.

Completely agree here. Good news is that there are 6 teams with 2 2nd round picks, so there should be teams willing to shop one, including Hoodie Genius. Packers have gotten Jennings and Matthews out of draft day trades with Hoodie. Git er done TT!!

[red]

first off

i am NOT starting the bush fan club. i'm still working on my top 20 reasons why bush cost us the superbowl this year, list

i agree that wells can be let go if he wants anything close to mangold money. i'm still not convinced he's more then an average center. he's gotten much better as the 4 players who line up with him have improved , especially the two guards

also agree that there is no reason at all to draft an offensive player this year. defense defense and more defense. we draft 12 defensive players this year and i'll be a happy packer fan

[Joemailman]

Can't ignore the OL. If Wells leaves, Clifton retires/is released, and Sherrod isn't ready, depth on the OL is a real issue.

[Brandon494]

I highly doubt TT will use another 1st rounder on a offensive lineman with the way our defense played last season.

[red]

Can't ignore the OL. If Wells leaves, Clifton retires/is released, and Sherrod isn't ready, depth on the OL is a real issue.

if sherrod isn't ready the chances are pretty slim that you're gonna find a LT in the late first round who is ready

and if wells goes i would like to go after one of the other vet free agent centers that will be out there that will probably be cheaper then wells

[red]

I highly doubt TT will use another 1st rounder on a offensive lineman with the way our defense played last season.

that would be 3 straight drafts taking a LT in the first round

thats like matt millen type goofy

[Joemailman]

I don't think TT will draft OL in the 1st round. But if people think he's going to solely draft defense because of what happened last year, TT don't operate that way.

[Bretsky]

B,

Your suggestions aren't nearly the complete disaster I was expecting. Mostly agree, except for a few minor quibbles:

1) Quarless is horribly damaged goods. You can't get anything in return for him right now.
2) I question whether the motive for your Jones move was just to save Driver for another year. I actually wouldn't mind saying goodbye to both of them if there are big upside developmental players waiting in the wings.



I'm kind of disappointed you mostly agree :)

Truth be told, I like to create threads that spur discussion and disagreement. People agreeing on things bores me

This weekend I'm about to pour out my post season grades on each positional category if time allows

My motive on Jones. I think he's vastly overrated and wonder if his stats could garner us a 4th...maybe a high 5th.
I think he's clearly our 5th best option and we've seen his best IMO from him last year.

I take the money savings and roll it to a veteran safety.

Driver, I think I restructuve for 1.5 MIL to 2MIL per year. His presence and leadership means a lot in that locker room and the dude still has talent to be a 3 or 4. And you get Jones out of the way so Cobb can excel

[Bretsky]

Bretsky-

Great idea for a thread. Pretty tough to be the first guy in the pool!


Thank You
I never mind coming out of the gate first
I enjoy taking the bullets and firing back as well; it's all good.

[Bretsky]

Why in the hell would you trade James Jones when he is signed for cheap as hell for a 5th or 6th round player who most likely wouldn't even make the team?


I trade him after the yr he had because IMO he's our fifth option soon and I don't want to pay him even what we are when he'll be behind Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Finley in production. I also think his upside is limited so I'm trying to get something for him and I can.

I take his money and sign a veteran safety or CB.

[Bretsky]

Jones wouldn't fetch a 3rd. Teams could have had him for nothing more than a few million/year last year, and I don't think most personnel people change their minds easily. That being said, why trade Jones and keep Driver? Jones is the better and cheaper player. Now, I don't know what Driver would want, but he's good for another year at most IMHO. Is a better and cheaper player worth giving up for a late round pick? I don't think so.

Jones moves aside so Cobb can develop as well. Cobb will be far better than Jones IMO. JJ is our #5 option within two years. Driver brings great leadership and presence in the clubhouse and IMO is still a capable #3/#4 WR. If age is equal I'd be playing Driver before Jones. I think we can trim his salary to the 2MIL/yr range.

[Bretsky]

WOW...Bretsky, if I had gotten hired in Fort Atkinson, we might have to go for a beer over this one...


[QUOTE=Bretsky;654281]

Agreed with this.


Yeah, I donno. I really see the value in a solid center. The Vikings gave up on Matt Birk, and he's still doing well...granted he's not as undersized.


Agreed.


What is this the NBA? $20-25 mil a year? :) I get ya though, 4 years $20-25 mil. Seems ok. He may want more. Even though I was the first to say he's gotta go...he's gotta stay, and we have to keep a guy with as much potential on this team.


um...No. You cut Driver and keep Jones. Jennings, Nelson, Jones, Cobb are our future at WR. You bring in one of those PS guys to be a special teamer.


Likely can't trade Quarless if you wanted, cause he probably won't even play this season. Quarless has something, not great, but he's a solid #2/3 TE, with hopes that Williams grows and passes him up. I like our 3 TE's...Crabtree however, I'm not a fan of.


If collins has to retire, Woodson goes to Safety, and we need a 3rd CB more than anything. The talent depth at DB scares me.


Pat Lee blows, House who knows, and I personally can't stand Bush...sometimes ya gotta cut the Bush.


I know it's still rag on Hawk, but you have 3 starters in Matthews, Bishop, Hawk..now you need a 4th. You could cut the rest of the LB's and start over IMO.


Our ILB suffered also. In the 34 those 3 guys need to take on all double teams to keep guys off of our ILB, and I didn't see that happening this year. We need a Cullen Jenkins type to apply pressure and eat blocks. If we're going to rag on players, Raji can be thrown into that bunch, he sadly underperformed.


We play too much madden at times. I don't argue trading out of round 1, but TT doesn't move around that much with that much thought process. Truth is, there is a lot of bottom end 1st round talent this year, so unless we trade up, I don't see us moving anywhere. TT will find a guy at our current spot. 2-4 playmakers?? Are you talking sitting there for us to take, or for us to actually take? Cause if we could get 2 playmakers in every draft, TT would be king.


Yes.


People made fun of me, but LaMichael James looks good in Green. Just sayin...


And as we all know, TT does nothing we expect.

1 Yes, if you got the job in Fort we'd have already sucked plenty of beers over Packer Talk and I'd have my draft day buddy here each yr as well
2. I agree James would look great in green n gold. But we can't take him in round one and I'm not sure he lasts til 2
3. Most people think more of James Jones than I do

[pbmax]

that would be 3 straight drafts taking a LT in the first round

thats like matt millen type goofy

Close, but at least you could make an argument for LT being important enough.

[ND72]

1 Yes, if you got the job in Fort we'd have already sucked plenty of beers over Packer Talk and I'd have my draft day buddy here each yr as well
2. I agree James would look great in green n gold. But we can't take him in round one and I'm not sure he lasts til 2
3. Most people think more of James Jones than I do

I wouldn't take James round 1...but end round 2 maybe 3? I believe he's projected as a 3/4 right now. Brees became a different thrower this year with Sproles, would love to see Rodgers with a guy like that.

[Pugger]

I highly doubt TT will use another 1st rounder on a offensive lineman with the way our defense played last season.

I hope not!

[Pugger]

It would be telling if we knew what kind of offer TT gave Wells that he rebuffed...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jones moves aside so Cobb can develop as well. Cobb will be far better than Jones IMO. JJ is our #5 option within two years. Driver brings great leadership and presence in the clubhouse and IMO is still a capable #3/#4 WR. If age is equal I'd be playing Driver before Jones. I think we can trim his salary to the 2MIL/yr range.

You don't let go of solid, younger, relatively cheap young players to keep a guy like Driver on the roster for one year. Cobb may beat out Jones, but;

1) You need depth. Personally, I don't consider Driver much depth anymore. Driver really feel off physically last year. Sure, he still made some nice catches, but when a team can cover you with mostly a LB, your days are numbered. Having 4 good receivers is paramount for this team. They won 15 games last year almost entirely because of the passing game. What happens if Jennings (he's gotten nicked in the past), Cobb (hasn't proven he can take a full workload in the NFL), or Finley (injury prone) goes down?
2) Cobb and Jones are different types of players. Cobb is a slot guy--like Driver. He'll be an upgrade on Driver, but I don't think he can necessarily go outside. Have you seen the problems the Vikings have had trying to play Percy Harvin on the outside? And Harvin is a superior talent to Cobb. Jennings can do it all. Nelson and Jones are outside guys. Jones is good insurance for Jennings or Nelson if they go down. With Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Driver, you lose a lot if Jennings or Nelson goes down. You don't have a good outside receiver to replace them. With Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Jones you have more flexibility.

[Smidgeon]

You don't let go of solid, younger, relatively cheap young players to keep a guy like Driver on the roster for one year. Cobb may beat out Jones, but;

1) You need depth. Personally, I don't consider Driver much depth anymore. Driver really feel off physically last year. Sure, he still made some nice catches, but when a team can cover you with mostly a LB, your days are numbered. Having 4 good receivers is paramount for this team. They won 15 games last year almost entirely because of the passing game. What happens if Jennings (he's gotten nicked in the past), Cobb (hasn't proven he can take a full workload in the NFL), or Finley (injury prone) goes down?
2) Cobb and Jones are different types of players. Cobb is a slot guy--like Driver. He'll be an upgrade on Driver, but I don't think he can necessarily go outside. Have you seen the problems the Vikings have had trying to play Percy Harvin on the outside? And Harvin is a superior talent to Cobb. Jennings can do it all. Nelson and Jones are outside guys. Jones is good insurance for Jennings or Nelson if they go down. With Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Driver, you lose a lot if Jennings or Nelson goes down. You don't have a good outside receiver to replace them. With Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Jones you have more flexibility.

Excellent post. (I like pretending my opinion matters. :D)

[Lurker64]

You just can't keep Driver at his current salary. He's not worth the $5m he's scheduled to be paid, as much as we love him.

[3irty1]

The only thing you're doing with Quarless is putting him on the PUP.

Also, 12 picks in this years draft isn't enough?

[Smidgeon]

The only thing you're doing with Quarless is putting him on the PUP.

Also, 12 picks in this years draft isn't enough?

Plus the four or so undrafted rookies that will be brought in for competition.

[Upnorth]

We have a fair bit of depth, now I want impact d players. I hope we stay in the first and trade for another early second, and also trade our current second into the first half on the second. If this is a good defensive draft then let's take advantage of it now. We need impact on the d, go get it.

Also if cliffy is cut and driver is cheaper we could look at free agency for a pass rush. I doubt we do, but it might be nice this year.

[Smidgeon]

We have a fair bit of depth, now I want impact d players. I hope we stay in the first and trade for another early second, and also trade our current second into the first half on the second. If this is a good defensive draft then let's take advantage of it now. We need impact on the d, go get it.

Also if cliffy is cut and driver is cheaper we could look at free agency for a pass rush. I doubt we do, but it might be nice this year.

If we sell out in a draft, we'll pay for it for years to come.

[Upnorth]

So we sold out to get CM111, and are still paying for it. Sometimes its worth it. We have good depth, now we need qualty starters.

[red]

You don't let go of solid, younger, relatively cheap young players to keep a guy like Driver on the roster for one year. Cobb may beat out Jones, but;

1) You need depth. Personally, I don't consider Driver much depth anymore. Driver really feel off physically last year. Sure, he still made some nice catches, but when a team can cover you with mostly a LB, your days are numbered. Having 4 good receivers is paramount for this team. They won 15 games last year almost entirely because of the passing game. What happens if Jennings (he's gotten nicked in the past), Cobb (hasn't proven he can take a full workload in the NFL), or Finley (injury prone) goes down?
2) Cobb and Jones are different types of players. Cobb is a slot guy--like Driver. He'll be an upgrade on Driver, but I don't think he can necessarily go outside. Have you seen the problems the Vikings have had trying to play Percy Harvin on the outside? And Harvin is a superior talent to Cobb. Jennings can do it all. Nelson and Jones are outside guys. Jones is good insurance for Jennings or Nelson if they go down. With Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Driver, you lose a lot if Jennings or Nelson goes down. You don't have a good outside receiver to replace them. With Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Jones you have more flexibility.

yeah, but you also have two guys on the PS that the team really likes. one is kind of the same type of receiver as jones. plus trading jones and bringing up gurly would give us some cap space

[ND72]

So we sold out to get CM111, and are still paying for it. Sometimes its worth it. We have good depth, now we need qualty starters.

Are you my college roommate in disguise? We've said this for the past couple years. We have the guys, now it's time to go after some guys to put us over the hump...of course after winning a super bowl and going 15-2, the hump isn't so big, but now that we've won, it's time to become the 1960's packers, and make this the last time we lose in the playoffs. :)

[Smidgeon]

I just don't want to become the 2010 Vikings.

[Gunakor]

I just don't want to become the 2010 Vikings.


The Vikings collapse had to do with much more than poor drafting or FA spending. I don't think we have much to worry about with the core of our roster all relatively healthy, under age 30, and have no pending disciplinary action hanging over their heads.

[Upnorth]

Are you my college roommate in disguise? We've said this for the past couple years. We have the guys, now it's time to go after some guys to put us over the hump...of course after winning a super bowl and going 15-2, the hump isn't so big, but now that we've won, it's time to become the 1960's packers, and make this the last time we lose in the playoffs. :)

College was the best 8 years of my life. I only remember 4. If you are one of my old roomates you were either my ex fiance, an eskimo, a very fat angry redhead, the one who lived in his room or you dropped out and became a mechanic. If one of them is you I hope its the mechanic, because I don't like the others.

[Smidgeon]

The Vikings collapse had to do with much more than poor drafting or FA spending. I don't think we have much to worry about with the core of our roster all relatively healthy, under age 30, and have no pending disciplinary action hanging over their heads.

You've always got to be churning over the roster and bringing in new talent. Role players matter too, and there appear to be significant depth issues. I'll take the occasional trade up, but I don't want to sell out in any draft to move up several times (BJ Sanders, anyone?).

[sharpe1027]

We have a fair bit of depth, now I want impact d players. I hope we stay in the first and trade for another early second, and also trade our current second into the first half on the second. If this is a good defensive draft then let's take advantage of it now. We need impact on the d, go get it.

Also if cliffy is cut and driver is cheaper we could look at free agency for a pass rush. I doubt we do, but it might be nice this year.

I think they will trade up IF:

1) They have someone rated significantly above the remaining players (CMIII).
2) They the rated player is within reasonable trade up territory.
3) They find a willing trade partner.

The odds of all three happening are probably no more than 50%. Otherwise they stay put or even trade for higher picks in future drafts (Patriots' style).

Although the odds of getting a better player improve with the location of the draft pick, they also improve with the number of picks. Hypothetically speaking, let's say a 2nd round pick is 20% likely to be an "impact" player and a 3rd round pick is only 13%. In that hypothetical, you are more likely to get an impact player with two third rounders.

I'm not saying that those percentages are accurate, but it's not so clear cut that trading up yields more impact players.

[Upnorth]

So now that Finley is signed everyone is talking tag and trade Flynn. Changing gears, if we cut/restructure driver we could tag Wells and make sure we have a top 5 oline protecting the franchise.

Thoughts.

[Smidgeon]

So now that Finley is signed everyone is talking tag and trade Flynn. Changing gears, if we cut/restructure driver we could tag Wells and make sure we have a top 5 oline protecting the franchise.

Thoughts.

I think it'd be overpaying Wells. If he's looking for top dollar, no way he'd negotiate after receiving the tag. He'd be making left tackle money and hit free agency the following year. Here are the Packers' options for Wells:

1) Come to terms on a long term deal
2) Have someone on the roster already primed to take his place (Patler mentioned Genus)
3) Draft or sign someone

And until the left tackle solidifies into more than average, I'm not going to call it a top 5 online. Though it's looked better than past years.

[Joemailman]

It would cost 9.4 mil to franchise Wells. Probably not gonna happen.

Franchise Flynn. Trade him to Cleveland for the #22 pick and pick Konz at either 22 or 28.

[Bretsky]

We are devoid of quality talent at DL and OLB

This draft IMO is pretty deep there and there are going to be some very quality guys still on the board in mid second round.

Right or wrong I'm a stubborn dude and I'm sticking with my plan. I'm gathering picks and ending up with two 2nd's in the 35-45 range. In those slots you can find a playmaker at DL and a pass rushing OLB that will help us for many years to come.

I just don't value James....Just aguy Jones as hightly as most in here. If I can get a four I jump at it, use the money to sign that veteran safety, keep Driver at a reduced rate, and let some newcomers fight it out for the #5 and #6 WR.

[Bretsky]

And another thing.........and I will surely admit it when I'm wrong......and HOPEFULLY I am wrong.......happened lots before

But IMO you guys are smoking some really good jujuuuu if you think TT is going to be slick enough to get some teams offering up high picks for Matt Flynn

[Joemailman]

And another thing.........and I will surely admit it when I'm wrong......and HOPEFULLY I am wrong.......happened lots before

But IMO you guys are smoking some really good jujuuuu if you think TT is going to be slick enough to get some teams offering up high picks for Matt Flynn

He got a 2nd for Corey Williams.

[Bretsky]

He got a 2nd for Corey Williams.

Honestly that was too easy. At that price, GB had little to lose, even if Williams came back. He was a pass rushing DL. Teams are always looking for them. But in the end, there was little risk. At worse we had Corey Williams back and we were ovepaying him a bit. He was still a solid starter.

Only a few teams would have interest in Flynn and TT will have to convince them to cough up a pick when they know Flynn is going free anyways. We can't franchise Flynn w/o a deal in place. That was not the case with CW

[Lurker64]

Worth noting is that when the Patriots franchised Matt Cassel, they already had the framework of a deal agreed upon with Kansas City. So it's not like this is impossible. That was, of course, facilitated by the fact that there were some close ties between those two organizations, but it's not like most of the likely suitors for Flynn don't have a Packer connection. Seattle has Schneider, Cleveland has Holmgren, and Miami has Philbin. So it's not like it would be unthinkable to deal with any of these three teams quickly and quietly.

[Patler]

Honestly that was too easy. At that price, GB had little to lose, even if Williams came back. He was a pass rushing DL. Teams are always looking for them. But in the end, there was little risk. At worse we had Corey Williams back and we were ovepaying him a bit. He was still a solid starter.

Only a few teams would have interest in Flynn and TT will have to convince them to cough up a pick when they know Flynn is going free anyways. We can't franchise Flynn w/o a deal in place. That was not the case with CW

That's the big difference. If a deal fell through for Cory Wlliams, they had a very useful player at an OK cost for their salary cap. If they franchise Flynn and a deal falls through, they have a guy who will hopefully contribute nothing, because he won't play; and their salary cap situation is screwed.

They didn't have to trade Williams, they would absolutely have to trade Flynn. Very different bargaining positions. On the other side of a deal, almost any team can use another DL (we can argue if Williams was worth the contract or not), only a few teams are willing to invest a big contract in an unproven QB. The market is smaller for Flynn than it was for Williams.

[ThunderDan]

I don't know about that guys.

I agree with your logic but it seems like the player that flashes once or twice and then has to sit and wait generates more buzz than the consistant D-Line starter.

People want the next ARod or Brees and Flynn has shown in VERY limited play that maybe he can do that. The promise alone gets people overly excited and gets them to do rash things.

[sharpe1027]

The franchise tag is guaranteed money, so they couldn't even cut him once he's tagged. That's a huge gamble to take. They better be pretty damn sure that they have a trade partner.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And another thing.........and I will surely admit it when I'm wrong......and HOPEFULLY I am wrong.......happened lots before

But IMO you guys are smoking some really good jujuuuu if you think TT is going to be slick enough to get some teams offering up high picks for Matt Flynn

What do you mean by high? I think he could fetch a 2nd or 3rd round pick--which would make it a little better than letting him walk in FA and getting a compensatory. Might not be worth the gambling, but I wouldn't be surprised if a deal is already in place with another team. I think Thompson needs to feel like he is absolutely certain he can trade Flynn. Otherwise, it's not worth the risk.

[Patler]

I don't know about that guys.

I agree with your logic but it seems like the player that flashes once or twice and then has to sit and wait generates more buzz than the consistant D-Line starter.

People want the next ARod or Brees and Flynn has shown in VERY limited play that maybe he can do that. The promise alone gets people overly excited and gets them to do rash things.

I don't disagree with that, but you also have to look at the "what if" in each.

What if no deal is made for Williams? - No problem. A little extra cap is spent, but not crippling at that time at all. The Packers were in a very healthy cap situation at the time, and were not yet flush with young productive players looking to be resigned. They probably would have been happy to keep Williams for just a bit less than the tender amount anyway.

What if no deal is made for Fynn? - It puts a big crimp on what the Packers can do. It throws away millions and millions of cap dollars, and probably results in losing another player or two that they would have preferred to keep. Basically, they will have given away $14 million cap dollars, or so. The effect of that can spill over for several years as other possible extensions are delayed, or another player is lost to FA.

It will be great if TT can pull something off with someone he trusts. An extra 2nd round pick would be nice to have this year. But it will have to be a "done deal" before Flynn is tendered.

[mission]

I think the 'gambling with the salary' thing is way overblown. They aren't going to tag him if they don't have a deal in place... these guys aren't blackjack players, they're calculated businessmen.

[sharpe1027]

Mission, that was exactly my point. It would be a huge gamble if they didn't already have a deal in place. Thus, they probably wouldn't tag him without assurances of a trade partner.

[mission]

Twitter rumor today is that TT is talking to the Browns about it ... I'm on my phone but there's a thread on another board about it.

[Patler]

I think the 'gambling with the salary' thing is way overblown. They aren't going to tag him if they don't have a deal in place... these guys aren't blackjack players, they're calculated businessmen.

Isn't that what most are saying?

[smuggler]

Another thing that Green Bay can do, which few people are talking about is this:

Once you tag Flynn, you are guaranteeing him with the 14.4 mil, if he wants it. That's a lot of money for Flynn to turn down. However, if he has confidence in himself, he might be tempted to NOT sign that franchise sheet. If he doesn't, it really improves the chances of GB trading him to a team where he can start, at which point he can sign a long contract and get paid.

Another thing: Green Bay could offer him a contract with a $4 million bonus - a bonus big enough to make this contract appealing to Flynn - and a large base salary, like say, 8 million - a salary large enough to prevent Green Bay from going back on the deal and keeping Flynn as a backup for another year. Remember: Flynn WANTS to be traded as opposed to facing the tag and another year in Green Bay. He WANTS to start. If he won't sign this contract, GB might still use the tag. Then, once Flynn is traded, he can sign a new contract, and everyone's happy.

What does Flynn get out of that? $4million in cold hard bonus cash, that's before he even goes to the bargaining table with our trade partner! What does GB get? A second round pick or better, as opposed to the 3rd round comp pick in the 2013 draft.

[sharpe1027]

Smuggler, I don't see what Flynn gains by accepting a $4 mil bonus with a $8 mil salary. Is the $8 mil guaranteed? Is so, the Packers gain nothing compared to franchising him (still on the hook for $14 mill total). If not, the Flynn has less guaranteed money. If I were Flynn, I'd prefer to have $14 million guaranteed rather than $4 million. There is zero chance that the Packers keep him on the bench and pay him $14 million, so I doubt he is concerned about that. The guaranteed money would be the starting point for any negotiations with a trade partner.

[Patler]

Another thing that Green Bay can do, which few people are talking about is this:

Once you tag Flynn, you are guaranteeing him with the 14.4 mil, if he wants it. That's a lot of money for Flynn to turn down. However, if he has confidence in himself, he might be tempted to NOT sign that franchise sheet. If he doesn't, it really improves the chances of GB trading him to a team where he can start, at which point he can sign a long contract and get paid.

Another thing: Green Bay could offer him a contract with a $4 million bonus - a bonus big enough to make this contract appealing to Flynn - and a large base salary, like say, 8 million - a salary large enough to prevent Green Bay from going back on the deal and keeping Flynn as a backup for another year. Remember: Flynn WANTS to be traded as opposed to facing the tag and another year in Green Bay. He WANTS to start. If he won't sign this contract, GB might still use the tag. Then, once Flynn is traded, he can sign a new contract, and everyone's happy.

What does Flynn get out of that? $4million in cold hard bonus cash, that's before he even goes to the bargaining table with our trade partner! What does GB get? A second round pick or better, as opposed to the 3rd round comp pick in the 2013 draft.

At this stage of his life, having made little as a professional player to date (relatively speaking!) Flynn would be a fool not to sign the franchise tender almost immediately. The franchise tag salary is guaranteed from the time he signs it, so if he is injured while working out, etc. he gets his $14+ million. If he does not sign it, the Packers can not trade him anymore than they can trade another unsigned player.

Your other scenario does not seem particularly good for wither Flynn or the Packers. Even if they trade him, the bonus counts against the Packers' cap, so they will have paid $4 million for whatever draft pick they get on a trade, and Flynn would get less than the franchise tag offers, with only a small portion of it guaranteed. Since the Packers will likely get a draft pick for him even if he leaves in FA, is it worth throwing away $4 million in cap space just to move up a round or two? Probably not.

[goldplater]

now with finleys signing the packers are in a good position to tag flynn if there is a worthy trade. He showed at least more than a lot of high picks or trades last season which prooved they are surely not worthy the money they get.
But on the other hand they do not have to tag him. they can tag nobody but at least they have a good chance now and are not pressured in the trade- negotiations with finleys situation.
Maybe Flynn becomes to expansive for some teams in the rumours if he enters FA. Or they rather trade him for a highly payed short contract.
Paying him the tagmoney after the trade (must they pay 14mil. too?) is maybe easier to decide than a long term contract for a 2games starter?

[Pugger]

That's the big difference. If a deal fell through for Cory Wlliams, they had a very useful player at an OK cost for their salary cap. If they franchise Flynn and a deal falls through, they have a guy who will hopefully contribute nothing, because he won't play; and their salary cap situation is screwed.

They didn't have to trade Williams, they would absolutely have to trade Flynn. Very different bargaining positions. On the other side of a deal, almost any team can use another DL (we can argue if Williams was worth the contract or not), only a few teams are willing to invest a big contract in an unproven QB. The market is smaller for Flynn than it was for Williams.

And he'll make more than the league MVP. :shock: TT won't have this happen.

[mission]

Isn't that what most are saying?

On the board, yeah... I was more referring to the thought in general that seems to be the prevailing 'other side' in all the articles I've been reading on the topic.

[Smidgeon]

And he'll make more than the league MVP. :shock: TT won't have this happen.

I personally think that part's irrelevant. Rodgers makes less than he should to begin with. They'll have to restructure regardless, sooner or later.

[pbmax]

Wilde is now backtracking on belief that the Packers will tag Flynn: http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/corp/page/02%2F25%2F12_Packers_unlikely_to_tag_Flynn/479?feed=2&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Thompson's quote at the end, where he says you do not simply tag someone to say "now let's trade you" is possibly telling. He may not want to risk a tag, regardless of assurances from other teams, unless he can live with that player at that price on the roster. It would fit what happened with Galloway in Seattle and Williams in Green Bay.

[pbmax]

I personally think that part's irrelevant. Rodgers makes less than he should to begin with. They'll have to restructure regardless, sooner or later.

But Flynn at $14.5 mil makes it more of an imperative. Wilde's article says he has found that the Packer's would prefer to lockup Matthews, Raji and Jennings first and then sign Rodgers to a big deal.

If Flynn is on the roster, it will be in his face (from the media at least) every day and the Packers may not be able to maintain order. Flynn at the moment he is tendered, has tremendous leverage. And if he is not traded, that leverage is transferred to the other Packer players.

[Brandon494]

I'd tag him and then trade him. Hes a young QB and just threw for 6 TDs, we'll have no problem trading the guy. We'll be able to get a 2nd and 3rd for him IMO.

[pbmax]

I'd tag him and then trade him. Hes a young QB and just threw for 6 TDs, we'll have no problem trading the guy. We'll be able to get a 2nd and 3rd for him IMO.

You have to clear the space to keep him while you trade him, which means your business grinds to a halt while you deal. The player can refuse to negotiate with the team you want to trade with if he doesn't want to go there (or wishes to go elsewhere). Or, if you are Joe Philbin and the Dolphins will offer a big contract, you wait it out, knowing that eventually the Packers will relent to your price and you scoop him up.

While you have him on your roster, you cannot do any deals with your soon to be FAs.

Every leverage except one contract year is working against you.

That is why it only works if Flynn wants to go to a team that is willing to jump the gun and doesn't want to wait. There are no guarantees anyone is in that kind of hurry. There is a difference between a team that wants Flynn and a team that is willing to commit draft picks and a contract.

Flynn does not have the track record of Cassell, Schaub or even Kolb.

[Zool]

Flynn does not have the track record of Cassell, Schaub or even Kolb.

Actually Flynn arguably has a better track record than Schaub. Shaub had 2 starts in 3 years and his stats were average at best.

[Bretsky]

I'll be happy if GB gets anything for Flynn but once again.........I think we're smoking the Packer Homer Juice by thinking we can pull this off. Here's to the juice !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A2elR7dsKw

[Brandon494]

Flynn is a hot commodity right now and I actually think we'll end up trading him to the Skins.

[Deputy Nutz]

Finely is locked up, so the issue is what to do with Scott Wells. If he feels disrespected by the Packers then he simply needs to move on, he brings a lot to the table but he isn't the end all be all at center. They have some options on the roster, but not nearly to the caliber of Wells. Thompson should look to actually find a low cost veteran and dig deeper in the draft for a long term replacement.

Flynn could be tagged, but you have to find a buyer for him that would be willing to give up more than a later 3rd round pick. Packers will get a comp pick for him at the end of the 3rd. I just don't know what his market worth is, I personally wouldn't give up more than a second for a career backup that has shown some ability in two career starts. Miami would be a good fit because of the scheme and it gives them an easy transistion.

When it comes to the draft the Packers really have to focus on defense. There are too many holes and older players that will be looking at retirement(Woodson, and Pickett). The Packers could spend their top pick on any part of the defense and really can't go wrong. This is the pass happy NFL and to combat the passing attack you a deep secondary and a pass rush, so really the Packers have to get better and usually that happens through the draft. One thing we don't know at this point is what kind of faith the Packers still have in under performing talent like Mike Neal, CJ Wilson, and AJ Hawk. Do they feel comfortable going into 2012 with Neal penciled in as a starter? Those question will be answered after the draft if the Packers go another direction in the top few rounds other than defensive line.

[Pugger]

Honestly that was too easy. At that price, GB had little to lose, even if Williams came back. He was a pass rushing DL. Teams are always looking for them. But in the end, there was little risk. At worse we had Corey Williams back and we were ovepaying him a bit. He was still a solid starter.

Only a few teams would have interest in Flynn and TT will have to convince them to cough up a pick when they know Flynn is going free anyways. We can't franchise Flynn w/o a deal in place. That was not the case with CW

This. The only way another GM will cough up a pick is if they don't want to get into a bidding war over Flynn on the open market.

[Pugger]

That's the big difference. If a deal fell through for Cory Wlliams, they had a very useful player at an OK cost for their salary cap. If they franchise Flynn and a deal falls through, they have a guy who will hopefully contribute nothing, because he won't play; and their salary cap situation is screwed.

They didn't have to trade Williams, they would absolutely have to trade Flynn. Very different bargaining positions. On the other side of a deal, almost any team can use another DL (we can argue if Williams was worth the contract or not), only a few teams are willing to invest a big contract in an unproven QB. The market is smaller for Flynn than it was for Williams.

We can't risk having our backup make more than our league MVP. There are other guys on our roster who need a raise - including said MVP.

[Pugger]

I personally think that part's irrelevant. Rodgers makes less than he should to begin with. They'll have to restructure regardless, sooner or later.

Unless another team wants to make a deal for Flynn we'll need that $14M of salary cap monies to restructure guys like Rodgers and CM3.

[3irty1]

I wouldn't blame a GM for letting him walk, it's risky to tag Flynn knowing he'll sign it while its still on the printer tray--but honestly I feel that a really great GM makes something happen here. He's clearly worth it, the demand for him is there. Peyton Manning waiting around in FA throws a bit of a wrench into Flynn's value but he's still worth more than a comp pick, it's TT's job to capitalize on the value this organization has added to Flynn.

[MJZiggy]

I don't think Peyton Manning throws a wrench into anything. Everything I've heard says his recovery is behind, he doesn't have any arm strength at all yet and may never get it back. That's not something I'd be clamoring for if I were looking for the best chance at winning. The only thing Manning truly has in his favor right now is a lot of experience and quicker reading and thinking than a younger kid.

[Joemailman]

There are probably at least 8 teams that would be improving themselves by trading for Matt Flynn. I think that's enough competition that there's a good chance TT finds a buyer. Even an early 3rd round pick would be better than what TT would get next year as a comp pick.

[pbmax]

Actually Flynn arguably has a better track record than Schaub. Shaub had 2 starts in 3 years and his stats were average at best.

Fair point. I thought Schaub got a bunch in a row like Kolb due to Vick injury. Apparently not so much. Schaub must be the high range then. He collected a swap of first round picks and a 2nd round pick.

The other problem with comparing to Schaub is that he was an RFA.

[Bretsky]

There are probably at least 8 teams that would be improving themselves by trading for Matt Flynn. I think that's enough competition that there's a good chance TT finds a buyer. Even an early 3rd round pick would be better than what TT would get next year as a comp pick.

You are spot on here; even a high 4th this year trumps an end of the yr 3rd next yr. Typically on draft day the experts equate a one year delay on a pick costing a round. Hoody in the past has traded a 2nd for next year's first. I'm not sure the 1st/2nd comparison works.

However, a high 4 this year probably trumps a late 3rd.

PERHAPS we could hire Scott Boras to finagle this deal. We need a slick Willy to convince 2-3 teams they are fighting for Matt Flynn. If we can't do that he's going free cuz there is no way TT franchises the dude iMO w/o having a deal worked out.

I don't perceive TT to be a slick Willy

[Bretsky]

THe Hasslebeck trade always intrigued me. Trading our #17 and Hasslebeck for a #10 pick and a fourth rounder I think.

Unfortunately in the end the deal ended up being Hasslebeck and a very effective OL (quiz....can anybody remember?) for...........Jamal Reynolds and Torrence Marshall

As luck would have it rumor had it Miami called us late to offer a late 1st for him but we had just made the deal.

[pbmax]

There are probably at least 8 teams that would be improving themselves by trading for Matt Flynn. I think that's enough competition that there's a good chance TT finds a buyer. Even an early 3rd round pick would be better than what TT would get next year as a comp pick.


You are spot on here; even a high 4th this year trumps an end of the yr 3rd next yr. Typically on draft day the experts equate a one year delay on a pick costing a round. Hoody in the past has traded a 2nd for next year's first. I'm not sure the 1st/2nd comparison works.

However, a high 4 this year probably trumps a late 3rd.

PERHAPS we could hire Scott Boras to finagle this deal. We need a slick Willy to convince 2-3 teams they are fighting for Matt Flynn. If we can't do that he's going free cuz there is no way TT franchises the dude iMO w/o having a deal worked out.

I don't perceive TT to be a slick Willy

8 teams makes it a beguiling possibility, but its almost certainly an overestimation. Teams always value their own QB more than others. And others will not want to commit to a single player both picks and significant veteran cash. If you include those factors, I bet there are 3 teams discussing it seriously. Of those, you cannot be sure Thompson AND Flynn will want to deal with them.

It only takes one, but in a tag/trade/sign, it has to be a team that meets two different sets of needs.

[Smidgeon]

I wouldn't blame a GM for letting him walk, it's risky to tag Flynn knowing he'll sign it while its still on the printer tray--but honestly I feel that a really great GM makes something happen here. He's clearly worth it, the demand for him is there. Peyton Manning waiting around in FA throws a bit of a wrench into Flynn's value but he's still worth more than a comp pick, it's TT's job to capitalize on the value this organization has added to Flynn.

But Thompson doesn't bend the rules or make handshake deals when he isn't supposed to. It kind of hamstrings the Packers, this attention to integrity. ;)

[KYPack]

THe Hasslebeck trade always intrigued me. Trading our #17 and Hasslebeck for a #10 pick and a fourth rounder I think.

Unfortunately in the end the deal ended up being Hasslebeck and a very effective OL (quiz....can anybody remember?) for...........Jamal Reynolds and Torrence Marshall

As luck would have it rumor had it Miami called us late to offer a late 1st for him but we had just made the deal.

Steve Hutchinson.

Wolf's worst trade, even if Wolf says it was Shermy's deal now.

You think we would've got one player out of that shitty deal.

[smuggler]

Good trading. Shitty drafting.

[Deputy Nutz]

Reported that McCarthy stated at the combine that the Packers are going to let Flynn walk, and will honor the true purpose of the franchise taghttp://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/35001399

[pbmax]

Reported that McCarthy stated at the combine that the Packers are going to let Flynn walk, and will honor the true purpose of the franchise taghttp://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/35001399

That quote is pulled a bit out of context. M3 also said he would love to have him back. But the subtext of his answer was that he was probably leaving, not that they wouldn't franchise him.

Wilde had a separate piece at ESPN Wisconsin where he laid out his change in stance from likely tagged to likely not tagged. That is the reference to word on the street.

[MJZiggy]

I read that this is to respect what the actual intention of the franchise tag is supposed to be.