Marco Rivera

[chewy-bacca]

Not that it matters, but I was thinking about our line, and the drop off after letting Marco and Mike go. I know Mike is starting, but I was unsure about Marco. He is listed 5th on the depth chart for dallas. Where would he be in GB? did his injury last off season hurt him, or is he just getting up there(11th year) Also, anyone know what they are paying him to be 5th on the chart?!

[GoPack06]

I was always fine with letting Rivera go because his age and injuries. I just thought we should have kept Whale.

[pittstang5]

I was always fine with letting Rivera go because his age and injuries. I just thought we should have kept Whale.

I agree, but Wahle was gone anyway. You can preach about how they could have resigned him to a much better deal until you're blue in the face, but the writting was on the wall....he didn't want to be here anymore. Various interviews pointed to this and I don't think he cared for Sherman.

Once they lost Wahle, to me, losing Rivera hurt even more. I was naive into thinking that Klemm would make us forget about Wahle and Reugy would win the RG spot. Well, we know how that went.

[Packnut]

According to the Cowboy official site, Marco is starting.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Rivera's contract expired. The Packers did not want to sign him at his market price. I agreed with that decision. The Packers received a compensatory pick for him that was used on Ingle Martin.

Wahle was cut in addition to Sharper, Hunt, Roman, and Thomas(LB).

I really question cutting starters without getting any compensation.

It is unlikely there would have been a trade for Sharper or Hunt but cutting Joey Thomas after the trade deadline, cutting LB Thomas, and cutting Roman were foolish without attempting some form of trade. Getting a conditional 7th round draft pick is better than nothing. BTW Nall could have been traded just before the trade deadline last year also.

Thompson throwing away starters is one reason for the talent drain the Packers have suffered. That is the one area of poor performance as a General Manager.

[Chester Marcol]

Thompson throwing away starters is one reason for the talent drain the Packers have suffered. That is the one area of poor performance as a General Manager.

I'm going to have to disagree with that point. I think if there would have been a better GM before TT who didn't deplete this team of all depth, making the decision not to resign a player who's going to cause cap hell for us is easier to do. The problem is, we didn't have people on the team ready to step in. Beyond our starters, and even some of our starters were only back up caliber, there was nothing. I think the Eagles are a good model of letting good people walk, but have done pretty well at having someone able to step in.

[woodbuck27]

According to the Cowboy official site, Marco is starting.

There is negative criticism out there, on the state of " the Cowboys OL ".

Marco Rivera has stated that he was very disappointed in his play last season but is determined to offer more to his team's possible success.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Oh Chester, I said it was one reason, as in contributing factor. Not the # one reason.

If Morley was worth a conditional draft pick surely those mentioned in my earlier post were worth as much as Morely.

Throwing away starting talent for nothing in return is a weakness of Thompson's.

[Chester Marcol]

Oh Chester, I said it was one reason, as in contributing factor. Not the # one reason.


I'll give ya that and the fact it was TT that didn't hang onto atleast one guard to make adding new talent to the O-line easier.

[Packnut]

I guess we can debate this forever, but I still say you don't let your core players walk UNLESS you have a back-up plan. I've argued the Wahle thing with several people and no one has changed my mind. The fact is TT did NOTHING in an attemp to keep him because TT does'nt believe that much money should be spent on the guard position period.

Now we can argue the cap situation that existed all day long, but what can't be argued is TT left us very weak at the guard position and it's hurting us big time now. These rookies should not be in a position to have to start now. TT is the GM and it was and is HIS responsibilty to correct it! There are 31 other teams in the NFL and I don't believe ANY of them are in a position of having to start 2 rookies on the O line.

[chewy-bacca]

According to the Cowboy official site, Marco is starting.

There is negative criticism out there, on the state of " the Cowboys OL ".

Marco Rivera has stated that he was very disappointed in his play last season but is determined to offer more to his team's possible success.

I just looked at the depth chart on the site, I figured they would put them in order, maybe not.

I also thought b\c of the back issues last year it wasnt that far from possible.

in any event, losing both inside guys hurt a lot, somebody better lern to pick up a blitz!

[chewy-bacca]

and whats the guys name that got a $44MILLION contract this year to be an inside line man? I just saw it the other day.......

[pbmax]

I guess we can debate this forever, but I still say you don't let your core players walk UNLESS you have a back-up plan. I've argued the Wahle thing with several people and no one has changed my mind. The fact is TT did NOTHING in an attemp to keep him because TT does'nt believe that much money should be spent on the guard position period.

Now we can argue the cap situation that existed all day long, but what can't be argued is TT left us very weak at the guard position and it's hurting us big time now. These rookies should not be in a position to have to start now. TT is the GM and it was and is HIS responsibilty to correct it! There are 31 other teams in the NFL and I don't believe ANY of them are in a position of having to start 2 rookies on the O line.
Packnut, I sympathize with this point of view, but this is exactly the thinking that put Mike Sherman into a corner and produced such bad contracts for Hunt, KGB, Diggs, Wayne and Wahle.

APB likes to point out that Sherman was resigning everybody with no cap room, like he was David Copperfield. But the cost was contracts loaded with back end money. He was always up against it because his cap was tight, it was tight in the future and depth was sorely lacking. He HAD to sign guys, or so he felt, so he never had room.

The backup plan should always be the same. Draft well. Sign free agents judiciously. I would add front load contracts, ala Philly and Minnesota and don't hand out big money to injured/older players.

Wahle's contract had that roster bonus PRECISELY because Sherman couldn't do market value at the time his second contract was up. Remember Wahle had a rookie deal and probably an RFA tender deal.

So you eat the 6 mil or backload another deal because you haven't developed any depth. How many decent lineman did the Packers have when Sherman took over from Wolf who left to take starting jobs or more money from other teams?

The depth on the line looked much better in 01 than 05. Sherman lost a lot of depth because of the money he committed to overpaying his own FAs at the heighth of their earning power, when they were in fact on the decline or simply looked better than the alternative. Poor excuse for big contracts.

[woodbuck27]

I guess we can debate this forever, but I still say you don't let your core players walk UNLESS you have a back-up plan. I've argued the Wahle thing with several people and no one has changed my mind. The fact is TT did NOTHING in an attemp to keep him because TT does'nt believe that much money should be spent on the guard position period.

Now we can argue the cap situation that existed all day long, but what can't be argued is TT left us very weak at the guard position and it's hurting us big time now. These rookies should not be in a position to have to start now. TT is the GM and it was and is HIS responsibilty to correct it! There are 31 other teams in the NFL and I don't believe ANY of them are in a position of having to start 2 rookies on the O line.

One word:

YES.

It has to get better.

GO PACKERS !!!

[K-town]

and whats the guys name that got a $44MILLION contract this year to be an inside line man? I just saw it the other day.......

Are you talking about Steve Hutchinson (VIkings)? Or maybe LeCharles Bentley? Don't think any of the class of 2006 lineman got contracts that big. Could be wrong. Patler - help?

[woodbuck27]

I guess we can debate this forever, but I still say you don't let your core players walk UNLESS you have a back-up plan. I've argued the Wahle thing with several people and no one has changed my mind. The fact is TT did NOTHING in an attemp to keep him because TT does'nt believe that much money should be spent on the guard position period.

Now we can argue the cap situation that existed all day long, but what can't be argued is TT left us very weak at the guard position and it's hurting us big time now. These rookies should not be in a position to have to start now. TT is the GM and it was and is HIS responsibilty to correct it! There are 31 other teams in the NFL and I don't believe ANY of them are in a position of having to start 2 rookies on the O line.
Packnut, I sympathize with this point of view, but this is exactly the thinking that put Mike Sherman into a corner and produced such bad contracts for Hunt, KGB, Diggs, Wayne and Wahle.

APB likes to point out that Sherman was resigning everybody with no cap room, like he was David Copperfield. But the cost was contracts loaded with back end money. He was always up against it because his cap was tight, it was tight in the future and depth was sorely lacking. He HAD to sign guys, or so he felt, so he never had room.

The backup plan should always be the same. Draft well. Sign free agents judiciously. I would add front load contracts, ala Philly and Minnesota and don't hand out big money to injured/older players.

Wahle's contract had that roster bonus PRECISELY because Sherman couldn't do market value at the time his second contract was up. Remember Wahle had a rookie deal and probably an RFA tender deal.

So you eat the 6 mil or backload another deal because you haven't developed any depth. How many decent lineman did the Packers have when Sherman took over from Wolf who left to take starting jobs or more money from other teams?

The depth on the line looked much better in 01 than 05. Sherman lost a lot of depth because of the money he committed to overpaying his own FAs at the heighth of their earning power, when they were in fact on the decline or simply looked better than the alternative. Poor excuse for big contracts.

pbmax.

We have to move beyond Mike Sherman no matter how creditable your post is. I hope we arn't still blaming Mike Sherman in 2007-08.

This is the season to do a square up assessment, on many fronts.

I don't know how realistically we can get OUR OL up to speed, outside of playing football games and steadily upgrading the OL as Ted Thompson has to do fittingly.

I believe that will take alot of gut checking, and bringing in players that will fit the bill, and getting OUR OL to something that will afford the protection OUR QB's and RB's certainly need.

There doesn't seem at this time, to be a whole lot available for us to compete for, in next off season's Free Agents.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FOR FAITH PACKER FANS !!

[Packnut]

I guess we can debate this forever, but I still say you don't let your core players walk UNLESS you have a back-up plan. I've argued the Wahle thing with several people and no one has changed my mind. The fact is TT did NOTHING in an attemp to keep him because TT does'nt believe that much money should be spent on the guard position period.

Now we can argue the cap situation that existed all day long, but what can't be argued is TT left us very weak at the guard position and it's hurting us big time now. These rookies should not be in a position to have to start now. TT is the GM and it was and is HIS responsibilty to correct it! There are 31 other teams in the NFL and I don't believe ANY of them are in a position of having to start 2 rookies on the O line.
Packnut, I sympathize with this point of view, but this is exactly the thinking that put Mike Sherman into a corner and produced such bad contracts for Hunt, KGB, Diggs, Wayne and Wahle.

APB likes to point out that Sherman was resigning everybody with no cap room, like he was David Copperfield. But the cost was contracts loaded with back end money. He was always up against it because his cap was tight, it was tight in the future and depth was sorely lacking. He HAD to sign guys, or so he felt, so he never had room.

The backup plan should always be the same. Draft well. Sign free agents judiciously. I would add front load contracts, ala Philly and Minnesota and don't hand out big money to injured/older players.

Wahle's contract had that roster bonus PRECISELY because Sherman couldn't do market value at the time his second contract was up. Remember Wahle had a rookie deal and probably an RFA tender deal.

So you eat the 6 mil or backload another deal because you haven't developed any depth. How many decent lineman did the Packers have when Sherman took over from Wolf who left to take starting jobs or more money from other teams?

The depth on the line looked much better in 01 than 05. Sherman lost a lot of depth because of the money he committed to overpaying his own FAs at the heighth of their earning power, when they were in fact on the decline or simply looked better than the alternative. Poor excuse for big contracts.

Yes your 100% right about Sherman screwing things up. Like I said, the Wahle thing can be debated over and over and it is subject to may-be's and what ifs. It's done so fine, we move on.

However, when you take the job as GM, you have the resonsibilty to find a way out of the hole as quickly as possible. This means you do not sacrifice your QB's in return for rookie linemen getting on the job training. The facts scream out that this is one area where TT has totally blown it. The 2 guys he picked up last year SUCKED and that is totally on him. He had a whole off-season to fix his mistake. If this would have included sending a 3rd or 4th round pick to someone for a capable guard with experience who was a back-up with another team then so be it.

As it stands now based on what we saw last week, I am very worried about the health of Favre and Rodgers and if either one goes down because one of these rookies blows a block, that will also be on TT's head.

[chewy-bacca]

and whats the guys name that got a $44MILLION contract this year to be an inside line man? I just saw it the other day.......

Are you talking about Steve Hutchinson (VIkings)?



BINGO....it just goes to prove, any spot is worth money for a PLAYER.

[Bretsky]

I was always fine with letting Rivera go because his age and injuries. I just thought we should have kept Whale.

I agree, but Wahle was gone anyway. You can preach about how they could have resigned him to a much better deal until you're blue in the face, but the writting was on the wall....he didn't want to be here anymore. Various interviews pointed to this and I don't think he cared for Sherman.

Once they lost Wahle, to me, losing Rivera hurt even more. I was naive into thinking that Klemm would make us forget about Wahle and Reugy would win the RG spot. Well, we know how that went.

Good Points Pitt; many signs pointed to Wahle wanting out. The only way to keep him was pay the huge bonus. But Rivera liked it here. He played injured much of last year. He'll be a fine starter for Dallas this year. I'm not convinced he'd have been the perfect fit in Zone Blocking, but he'd be 2x as good as any starting OG on our roster now.

[BananaMan]

It is unlikely there would have been a trade for Sharper or Hunt but cutting Joey Thomas after the trade deadline, cutting LB Thomas, and cutting Roman were foolish without attempting some form of trade. Getting a conditional 7th round draft pick is better than nothing. BTW Nall could have been traded just before the trade deadline last year also.

Thompson throwing away starters is one reason for the talent drain the Packers have suffered. That is the one area of poor performance as a General Manager.

A) How the hell do you know that he didn't attempt a trade? B) Most teams won't do a trade when they know the player will be cut anyway. C) In the case of Nall, who in their right mind would trade for a guy who's set to become a UFA?!

[SkinBasket]

However, when you take the job as GM, you have the resonsibilty to find a way out of the hole as quickly as possible. This means you do not sacrifice your QB's in return for rookie linemen getting on the job training. The facts scream out that this is one area where TT has totally blown it. The 2 guys he picked up last year SUCKED and that is totally on him. He had a whole off-season to fix his mistake. If this would have included sending a 3rd or 4th round pick to someone for a capable guard with experience who was a back-up with another team then so be it.

TT is finding his way out of the hole. However, the policies of the last GM have created a virtual black hole of money and talent. If offering a 3rd or 4th round pick was enough to secure a solid OG, every team in the NFL would have 1500 yrd RBs with only the lack of a mid round draft pick to show.