woodbuck27
08-17-2006, 11:46 AM
Posted August 17, 2006
Nothing's certain for kickers
Cundiff, Rayner must do well, or else
By Pete Dougherty
pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com
Billy Cundiff and Dave Rayner aren't just competing with each other for the Green Bay Packers' kicking job. They're competing against extra kickers in training camps across the NFL.
Cundiff and Rayner are going head to head to see whether one of them can replace Ryan Longwell, who signed with Minnesota as a free agent in March after 10 dependable seasons with the Packers.
But it's far from a lock that either one will be the Packers' kicker when the regular season opens Sept. 10 at Chicago. Early in, training camp neither has jumped out as a keeper.
There are three preseason games remaining as proving ground, and the Packers are looking for one or both to make a move, starting Saturday night against Atlanta.
"They've kind of had their ups and downs," said Reggie McKenzie, the Packers' director of pro personnel. "We're waiting for it to level off, boom, boom, boom in this game, that's what we're talking about. Then the consistency, same for the next game. Then finish strong."
If the Packers don't get that?
"If we don't get that, then we'll be looking at bringing guys in," he said.
That means Cundiff and Rayner are competing against kickers who probably will be cut by other teams.
That list could be short but probably will include:
Eighth-year pro Martin Gramatica, who has looked good in the New England Patriots' camp after being out of football last season because of an abdominal injury and a 27-for-45 slump on field goals in 2003 and 2004.
He's likely to be cut because the Patriots' fourth-round draft pick, Stephen Gostkowski, has started camp well and looks like an elite kicker in the making.
Baltimore's Matt Stover or Aaron Elling. The Ravens kept the 38-year-old Stover for field goals and Elling, a fourth-year pro, for kickoffs last season. One of the two could be cut this year.
Former Vikings kicker Paul Edinger, who worked out with the Packers earlier in camp, but is unsigned. He's working out in Florida. Last year, he made two game-winning field goals against the Packers and was 25-for-34 (73.5 percent). McKenzie said Edinger's leg strength is comparable to Cundiff's.
"(Edinger) struggled some (last year)," McKenzie said. "He made some big kicks last year, but the consistency wasn't great last year. He'll be on our list too."
So far in camp, Cundiff, who was Dallas' kicker for most of the past four years, has been more accurate but has left questions about his leg strength.
Rayner, almost exclusively a kickoff man as a rookie with Indianapolis last season, has shown a stronger leg but has missed more than Cundiff on shorter tries.
On Tuesday night, the last time they had a live field-goal drill, both went 5-for-5. It was the calmest conditions they've had, and all the kicks were from comfortable distances of 23 yards to 42 yards.
"I think one of those two guys will be fine now," special teams coach Mike Stock said. "The other night, both were 5-for-5. They've got to make the short ones, too."
Cundiff's leg strength has become an issue because he's been short on two 48-yarders  one at the Packers' intrasquad scrimmage and one in practice last week. He also had a 44-yarder barely clear the crossbar to finish off a two-minute drill. That raises a red flag, especially for a team that plays in a cold climate, where a kicker's range is reduced in November and December.
During offseason practices, when Stock worked alone with the kickers, Cundiff's range was about 54 yards into the wind. To win the job, Cundiff will need to hit more kicks like the 44-yarder he drilled with perhaps 10 yards to spare in practice last week.
In 53 games with Dallas, which plays its home games in a half-covered dome, Cundiff made 73.2 percent of his field goals (60-for-82). The Cowboys waived him last season after he pulled a groin muscle in camp, but he came back later in the season and hit a career-long 56 yarder.
Longwell, by comparison, made 81.6 percent of his field goals, which ranks eighth in NFL history, and has a career long of 54 yards.
"(Cundiff) has kicked under pressure situations," Stock said.
"Has he kicked in inclement weather? The Washington Redskins' park isn't easy to kick in. Giants Stadium is not easy to kick in, and Philadelphia's not easy to kick in. He's kicked in all those places twice a year (in the NFC East Division)."
Rayner, on the other hand, has tried only one field goal in an NFL game. Indianapolis drafted him in the sixth round as a kickoff man who would succeed Mike Vanderjagt when his contract expired after the season. He averaged 61.5 yards on 82 kickoffs and missed a 59-yard field goal.
But the Colts changed their minds in the offseason and signed the league's top kicker, Adam Vinatieri, as a free agent. The Packers picked up Rayner two days after Indianapolis cut him.
Rayner has been less accurate than Cundiff but has shown the stronger leg on field goals and an ability to get the ball 50 yards or more with room to spare. In a live drill last week, though, he missed back-to-back kicks from 41 yards and 48 yards.
"In terms of field-goal pressure and all that, no, (Rayner) doesn't have the experience," Stock said. "But does he have the leg? Yes. Does he have the mettle, the intestinal fortitude, the mentality, steely kind of guy? I think he does."
Though performance in practice is important for showing consistency to the coaches, the job ultimately will come down to the games.
Stock is alternating them on kickoffs and on field goals each preseason game, taking off from where they ended the previous week. Rayner will get the next field-goal attempt, and Cundiff the next kickoff.
Last week at San Diego, Cundiff made the team's lone field-goal attempt, a 23-yarder, and his only kickoff was a 71-yarder. Rayner's only kickoff was an onside kick.
"If they want to go with experience, obviously they'll go with him," Rayner said.
"Do I think he's out-kicked me since I've been here? No, I think it's been pretty even. It's going to be interesting."
GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH IN 2006 and BEYOND !!
Nothing's certain for kickers
Cundiff, Rayner must do well, or else
By Pete Dougherty
pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com
Billy Cundiff and Dave Rayner aren't just competing with each other for the Green Bay Packers' kicking job. They're competing against extra kickers in training camps across the NFL.
Cundiff and Rayner are going head to head to see whether one of them can replace Ryan Longwell, who signed with Minnesota as a free agent in March after 10 dependable seasons with the Packers.
But it's far from a lock that either one will be the Packers' kicker when the regular season opens Sept. 10 at Chicago. Early in, training camp neither has jumped out as a keeper.
There are three preseason games remaining as proving ground, and the Packers are looking for one or both to make a move, starting Saturday night against Atlanta.
"They've kind of had their ups and downs," said Reggie McKenzie, the Packers' director of pro personnel. "We're waiting for it to level off, boom, boom, boom in this game, that's what we're talking about. Then the consistency, same for the next game. Then finish strong."
If the Packers don't get that?
"If we don't get that, then we'll be looking at bringing guys in," he said.
That means Cundiff and Rayner are competing against kickers who probably will be cut by other teams.
That list could be short but probably will include:
Eighth-year pro Martin Gramatica, who has looked good in the New England Patriots' camp after being out of football last season because of an abdominal injury and a 27-for-45 slump on field goals in 2003 and 2004.
He's likely to be cut because the Patriots' fourth-round draft pick, Stephen Gostkowski, has started camp well and looks like an elite kicker in the making.
Baltimore's Matt Stover or Aaron Elling. The Ravens kept the 38-year-old Stover for field goals and Elling, a fourth-year pro, for kickoffs last season. One of the two could be cut this year.
Former Vikings kicker Paul Edinger, who worked out with the Packers earlier in camp, but is unsigned. He's working out in Florida. Last year, he made two game-winning field goals against the Packers and was 25-for-34 (73.5 percent). McKenzie said Edinger's leg strength is comparable to Cundiff's.
"(Edinger) struggled some (last year)," McKenzie said. "He made some big kicks last year, but the consistency wasn't great last year. He'll be on our list too."
So far in camp, Cundiff, who was Dallas' kicker for most of the past four years, has been more accurate but has left questions about his leg strength.
Rayner, almost exclusively a kickoff man as a rookie with Indianapolis last season, has shown a stronger leg but has missed more than Cundiff on shorter tries.
On Tuesday night, the last time they had a live field-goal drill, both went 5-for-5. It was the calmest conditions they've had, and all the kicks were from comfortable distances of 23 yards to 42 yards.
"I think one of those two guys will be fine now," special teams coach Mike Stock said. "The other night, both were 5-for-5. They've got to make the short ones, too."
Cundiff's leg strength has become an issue because he's been short on two 48-yarders  one at the Packers' intrasquad scrimmage and one in practice last week. He also had a 44-yarder barely clear the crossbar to finish off a two-minute drill. That raises a red flag, especially for a team that plays in a cold climate, where a kicker's range is reduced in November and December.
During offseason practices, when Stock worked alone with the kickers, Cundiff's range was about 54 yards into the wind. To win the job, Cundiff will need to hit more kicks like the 44-yarder he drilled with perhaps 10 yards to spare in practice last week.
In 53 games with Dallas, which plays its home games in a half-covered dome, Cundiff made 73.2 percent of his field goals (60-for-82). The Cowboys waived him last season after he pulled a groin muscle in camp, but he came back later in the season and hit a career-long 56 yarder.
Longwell, by comparison, made 81.6 percent of his field goals, which ranks eighth in NFL history, and has a career long of 54 yards.
"(Cundiff) has kicked under pressure situations," Stock said.
"Has he kicked in inclement weather? The Washington Redskins' park isn't easy to kick in. Giants Stadium is not easy to kick in, and Philadelphia's not easy to kick in. He's kicked in all those places twice a year (in the NFC East Division)."
Rayner, on the other hand, has tried only one field goal in an NFL game. Indianapolis drafted him in the sixth round as a kickoff man who would succeed Mike Vanderjagt when his contract expired after the season. He averaged 61.5 yards on 82 kickoffs and missed a 59-yard field goal.
But the Colts changed their minds in the offseason and signed the league's top kicker, Adam Vinatieri, as a free agent. The Packers picked up Rayner two days after Indianapolis cut him.
Rayner has been less accurate than Cundiff but has shown the stronger leg on field goals and an ability to get the ball 50 yards or more with room to spare. In a live drill last week, though, he missed back-to-back kicks from 41 yards and 48 yards.
"In terms of field-goal pressure and all that, no, (Rayner) doesn't have the experience," Stock said. "But does he have the leg? Yes. Does he have the mettle, the intestinal fortitude, the mentality, steely kind of guy? I think he does."
Though performance in practice is important for showing consistency to the coaches, the job ultimately will come down to the games.
Stock is alternating them on kickoffs and on field goals each preseason game, taking off from where they ended the previous week. Rayner will get the next field-goal attempt, and Cundiff the next kickoff.
Last week at San Diego, Cundiff made the team's lone field-goal attempt, a 23-yarder, and his only kickoff was a 71-yarder. Rayner's only kickoff was an onside kick.
"If they want to go with experience, obviously they'll go with him," Rayner said.
"Do I think he's out-kicked me since I've been here? No, I think it's been pretty even. It's going to be interesting."
GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH IN 2006 and BEYOND !!