REALITY BITES; Consensus...Dear Nick Collinins..PLZ RETIRE

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/tough-decision-ahead-for-collins-vm4paqr-144737875.html

[channtheman]

Since the news that it was a neck injury, I've thought he would never play another down again. I still think that.

[Joemailman]

The think you have to remember though is that Collins' injury was not due to a pre-existing condition, as was the case with Terrence Murphy. It was due to the fact that a 230 pound man landed on top of his head. If the doctors determine that he is no more likely to suffer a debilitating injury than he would have been before this injury happened, I expect he will play. Of course, he will still have a big mental hurdle to overcome. but I think he will try it if given a medical green light.

[Guiness]

Still can't believe how innocuous that play looked.

[ND72]

Still can't believe how innocuous that play looked.

That, I think, is what scares me.

[gbpackfan]

I don't think anyone knows enough to tell the guy to retire. If he comes back, great. If not, understandable.

[RashanGary]

I'm surprised they call that Innocuous. When I saw the play, I said, "Oh no" to my wife. He took that shot square on the noggan without anything to absorb it but his spine. There wasn't even a degree of deflection. It was like dropping a sand bag square on your head from a 2 story building. Not to be a know-it-all, because clearly I've eliminated all possibility of that status within about 3 posts of being here, but I knew at the moment of contact that was bad. I cringed.

[RashanGary]

And for the record, I think he's coming back. He's one of the toughest Packers we got. His body is strong as they come. If doctors can clear Manning, I have my money on our boy Nick Collins healing up just as tight and coming back 100%

[Farley Face]

It is my fault. I haven't missed a single play of a Packer game in nearly 20 years until that game. I had to leave early to catch a flight for a business trip and on my way to the airport a friend text me that Collins was knocked out of the game.

I hate to say it but he has played his final play. God bless Nick, raise that family like the Champion you are.

[Lurker64]

Actually, if the neck is repaired properly, and there's no sign of spinal stenosis (Nick has no history of this condition), then Nick Collins is actually less likely to incur this injury again than Morgan Burnett, Charlie Peprah, or M.D. Jennings would be to get it the first time.

Therefore, assuming everything checks out medically, it would be more irresponsible to allow Morgan Burnett to play than to allow Nick Collins to play.

[RashanGary]

Actually, if the neck is repaired properly, and there's no sign of spinal stenosis (Nick has no history of this condition), then Nick Collins is actually less likely to incur this injury again than Morgan Burnett, Charlie Peprah, or M.D. Jennings would be to get it the first time.

Therefore, assuming everything checks out medically, it would be more irresponsible to allow Morgan Burnett to play than to allow Nick Collins to play.

That's the feeling I get too. The Packers are uber safe with players health, but everything I hear, there are several players who've had this surgery and come back. God gave that guy the body of Zeus. You have my dollars on him healing up like a champ. The only fear the doctors are going to have when they let him loose is for the poor bastard who has to take the next lick by old number 36.

[Farley Face]

Per the linked article:

"...and in discussions with GM Ted Thompson both he and McCarthy agreed they couldn't see allowing their sons to play again presented with the same choice"

This "same choice" assumes he clears all medical testing from his original surgeons. How then do you see him playing (at least in the Green and Gold) again?

Ted: "Hey Nick, if you were my kid hell no I don't sign off on it but since I have a love for flashy rings and my own self interest go out there and lay a lick old number 36!"

How do you reconcile the two?

[Joemailman]

They're talking about how they would feel as a parent if their child was in this situation. Most parents have a natural instinct to be protective of their children. Well, Nick Collins isn't their child. He is a 29 year old man fully capable of making an intelligent, sober decision.

[Patler]

Per the linked article:

"...and in discussions with GM Ted Thompson both he and McCarthy agreed they couldn't see allowing their sons to play again presented with the same choice"

This "same choice" assumes he clears all medical testing from his original surgeons. How then do you see him playing (at least in the Green and Gold) again?

Ted: "Hey Nick, if you were my kid hell no I don't sign off on it but since I have a love for flashy rings and my own self interest go out there and lay a lick old number 36!"

How do you reconcile the two?

When it comes right down to it, it's Collins' decision to make, not TT's or MM's. If Collins' decides to continue, the Packers have three choices, play him, trade him or release him.

[Farley Face]

Agreed it is 100% Nick's decision to continue his career if he so chooses. It is 100% TT's and the Packers choice if he does that as a Packer. The comments MM has made to the media tell me that isn't going to happen.


When it comes right down to it, it's Collins' decision to make, not TT's or MM's. If Collins' decides to continue, the Packers have three choices, play him, trade him or release him.

[swede]

I'm surprised they call that Innocuous. When I saw the play, I said, "Oh no" to my wife. He took that shot square on the noggan without anything to absorb it but his spine. There wasn't even a degree of deflection. It was like dropping a sand bag square on your head from a 2 story building. Not to be a know-it-all, because clearly I've eliminated all possibility of that status within about 3 posts of being here, but I knew at the moment of contact that was bad. I cringed.

Whaat? It wasn't like that at all.

Now the physics of it had to have been precisely such that the brush of the running back's leg against the top of Collins's helmet was the right force at the proper angle to Collins's neck vertebrae to squish a disc. That was not a cringe-inspiring, spine-telescoping kill-shot you know-it-all! :;D:

What about the Dale Earnhardt fatal crash? Did you think that was going to be fatal? To me it seemed like a typical fender-bender. Guys walk away from cartwheeling fireballs all the time in Nascar and THAT is what killed Dale?

[Scott Campbell]

I just hope it's clear cut one way or the other, and he never has to second guess his decision.

[mraynrand]

Just doing a little back of the envelope calculations, you can clearly see that the amount of force Collin's neck received was enough to cause the damage (assuming appropriate boundary conditions, but you all must - of course - agree on this, I mean who wouldn't, right?):

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Collinsneckmath.jpg

[pbmax]

Odd, I did not expect to see Greg Jennings personal gravitation field (G^i and J^i, on the first line) play a role in Collins injury. They must have had the All-22 film when they put this together.

[Iron Mike]

Dawg, he gotta do dis $#!t, put the team on his fu@&!n' neck, tho...

[Pugger]

When it comes right down to it, it's Collins' decision to make, not TT's or MM's. If Collins' decides to continue, the Packers have three choices, play him, trade him or release him.

Let's assume for the moment the doctors will give Collins the okay to play. Would TT and MM then decide to let him go either via trade or outright release? Somehow I kinda doubt it. Good safeties like him are few and far between.

[Patler]

Let's assume for the moment the doctors will give Collins the okay to play. Would TT and MM then decide to let him go either via trade or outright release? Somehow I kinda doubt it. Good safeties like him are few and far between.

I doubt it too, but those are their options at that point, play him, trade him or release him. I think trading or releasing him will happen only if Collins' doctors clear him to play, but the Packers medical staff does not, and Collins decides to play. However, from what Collins has said, in that situation I think he would retire anyway. He has always said he wants to play, but only if the medical opinions are certain, and I expect that means both his doctors and the Packers' would have to agree.

[woodbuck27]

And for the record, I think he's coming back. He's one of the toughest Packers we got. His body is strong as they come. If doctors can clear Manning, I have my money on our boy Nick Collins healing up just as tight and coming back 100%

Whatever S Nick Collins decides he will not have a difficult decision. If that decision is to return to us then I believe he may have that opposed by **MM , Packer coach's and our GM**.

** These people in the Packer organization will make a decision ultimately affecting the possibility of Nick Collins return as merely a consciousable one.

[woodbuck27]

Just doing a little back of the envelope calculations, you can clearly see that the amount of force Collin's neck received was enough to cause the damage (assuming appropriate boundary conditions, but you all must - of course - agree on this, I mean who wouldn't, right?):

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Collinsneckmath.jpg

Well your very close using that MATH.

[Smidgeon]

The think you have to remember though is that Collins' injury was not due to a pre-existing condition, as was the case with Terrence Murphy. It was due to the fact that a 230 pound man landed on top of his head. If the doctors determine that he is no more likely to suffer a debilitating injury than he would have been before this injury happened, I expect he will play. Of course, he will still have a big mental hurdle to overcome. but I think he will try it if given a medical green light.

I thought one of the early articles said they found something when they went in to look at his neck? It was only a passing comment, but I thought the implication was that there was something already there they hadn't been aware of...

[KYPack]

I thought one of the early articles said they found something when they went in to look at his neck? It was only a passing comment, but I thought the implication was that there was something already there they hadn't been aware of...

Damn, Sidgeon.

You faked me out good with that avatar switch.

I was trying to remember when I posted this shit!

[woodbuck27]

Damn, Sidgeon.

You faked me out good with that avatar switch.

I was trying to remember when I posted this shit!

LOL You have to be on your toes here now KY. I'm seeing 'Avatars' take positions that are totally out of character.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/144751405.html

On Nick Collins 'injury and follow-up'; other Green Bay Packer related information of interest 'or not'. (-:

[Smidgeon]

Damn, Sidgeon.

You faked me out good with that avatar switch.

I was trying to remember when I posted this shit!

I think I like the Colonel with sunglasses. :)

(colonel, by the way, is the word that killed my chances at spelling bee glory in fifth grade)

[pbmax]

Here is the thread with the mostest. http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?22778-Nick-Collins-out-for-the-Year/page8&highlight=collins

No stenosis prior and their determination was that the injury did occur during the game on that hit to his helmet. The disc was obviously bad enough that he could not play with it as they shut him down for the season after the MRI (likely McCarthy's third report he referenced) showed it. To return to football he had to have the disc removed and fusion done.

The worry now would be stenosis, which could develop after surgery/trauma in response to inflammation or scar tissue (I think), strength, and his recovery of a full range of motion.

As for why Manning is playing and McCarthy and Thompson seem to be saying their kids wouldn't take the risk Collins will face, we don't know anything medically about why they seem quite worried in advance. They may simply be advocating an abundance of caution. Its possible McKenzie has already told the team he is unlikely to approve a return.

[KYPack]

I think I like the Colonel with sunglasses. :)

(colonel, by the way, is the word that killed my chances at spelling bee glory in fifth grade)

Yeah, you out-cooled me with those shades.

"Colonel" seems like it needs an 'R' in there. That's one of those words that you realize you fucked up, but you just keep spelling it out anyhow, 'til it's time to siddown.

[Lurker64]

The worry now would be stenosis, which could develop after surgery/trauma in response to inflammation or scar tissue (I think), strength, and his recovery of a full range of motion.

That's pretty much it, a narrowing of the spinal column puts you at increased risk of catastrophic spinal injury resulting in paralysis or death. That's bad. If there's any significant evidence of stenosis, Collins pretty much has to shut it down and the doctors will tell him as such.

Things like "regaining strength" are just an issue of "it will happen eventually when the nerves heal". There's the possibility that they won't, but then it will be an issue of "he can't play because he's not good enough anymore" rather than an issue of "he can't play because he's risking catastrophic injury" and that's less of a tragedy.

The benefit of having the disc fusion is that while he will give up a little bit in terms of neck flexibility, it will be virtually impossible for him to incur the same injury again, an identically delivered blow would have to be enough to actually break the bones in his neck in order to injure him. Which is why I say that if there's no stenosis, and once the nerves heal and he regains his strength, he's actually better protected against that specific injury than any other player on the roster.

[MadScientist]

The benefit of having the disc fusion is that while he will give up a little bit in terms of neck flexibility, it will be virtually impossible for him to incur the same injury again, an identically delivered blow would have to be enough to actually break the bones in his neck in order to injure him. Which is why I say that if there's no stenosis, and once the nerves heal and he regains his strength, he's actually better protected against that specific injury than any other player on the roster.
I have to wonder about that. Yes, if he has the exact same hit, he would not injure the same vertebral joint, but what about the ones directly above and below it. There is less total compressibility, and any bending motion will have a longer lever. For any normal activity he'll be fine, but football is not a normal activity.

[woodbuck27]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120402/PKR01/120402192/No-word-from-Green-Bay-Packers-safety-Nick-Collins-camp-on-results-of-medical-exam?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

No word from Collins camp on medical results

9:18 AM, Apr. 3, 2012

[woodbuck27]

http://blogs.greenbaypressgazette.com/blogs/gpg/insider/2012/04/03/report-collins-to-meet-with-packers-next-week/

Report: Nick Collins to meet with Packers (NEXT WEEK) Updated.

10:58 AM, Apr. 3, 2012

Mike McCarthy last week, “If Nick was my son, I would not let him play.”