Packers Depth Chart

[HarveyWallbangers]

Thought I'd run through these by position and get people's feel for how the depth chart will look.

[HarveyWallbangers]

QB

1) Does Harrell show enough to be the backup or will the Packers have to go outside of the organization for a backup? The brass has shown no inclination to do so. Yet.
2) Coleman would seem to have the upper hand if the Packers keep three QBs--provided Harrell wins the backup spot.
3) If neither Coleman nor Hill show anything, they could keep just two QBs again.

My gut right now says

QB Aaron Rodgers, Graham Harrell, B.J. Coleman

[Joemailman]

I think Harrell would really have to screw up not to be the backup. He at least knows the offense pretty well. If Coleman shows anything, they will keep him as #3, as they could possibly lose him if they put him on the practice squad.

[HarveyWallbangers]

RB/FB

1) Do the Packers resign Grant?
2) Provided they are healthy, do we roll with Starks, Saine, and Green? Do we trust those guys (health concerns)?
3) Is there any UFDA that has a shot?
4) We went from keeping three FBs to looking like we'll have one on the roster. Does Hoese have a chance or are we covered by a guy like Ryan Taylor?

My gut right now says

RB James Starks, Brandon Saine, Alex Green
FB John Kuhn

This is a hard one. They could just as easily resign Grant this week. Starks is injury prone. Green is coming off a major injury. However, all three guys have flashed enough to warrant a roster spot, if healthy. The Packers could always wait until the end of preseason for a RB, if one of these guys doesn't pan out. This is one where I expect to be wrong, but there are other teams that didn't pick up an RB in the draft (Patriots, for example) who could have interest in Grant, and I don't think the Packers will go too far in resigning Grant.

[HarveyWallbangers]

WR/TE

1) Does Driver get cut?
2) If not, everybody assumes Gurley makes the team, but Borel is intriguing. Call Gurley the favorite, but Borel is a dark horse.
3) If so, do the Packers keep 6 WRs this year?
4) How healthy are the injured TEs? Do we keep 5 again? We could, if we only keep 1 FB again. Of the four backing up Finley, who is the most likely to get cut?

My gut right now says:

WR Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Tori Gurley
TE Jermichael Finley, Andrew Quarless, Tom Crabtree, Ryan Taylor, D.J. Williams

I'm going to say they keep 5 TEs again because I think they are all good enough to deserve a roster spot, but I have the feeling that one will get cut. I wouldn't be surprised by any of them getting cut. Quarless because of his injury. Crabtree because I think he's ordinary, and the two rookies from last year could beat him out if they improve. I was actually disappointed in Williams last year. I thought he'd look better. I was surprised by Taylor because he was better than I thought.

[HarveyWallbangers]

OL

1) Can Datko stay healthy? The reports sound like he's a good player, if healthy.
2) What about Herb Taylor? I would have thought he was an insurance policy and would have been cut by now, but he's still on the roster and has started games in the NFL.
3) Of the group of interior OL, does it come down to Dominguez vs. Patler's favorite Sampson Genus vs. the UDFA Brooks?

My gut right now says:

OT Bryan Bulaga, Marshall Newhouse, Derek Sherrod, Chris Campbell
OG/OC Josh Sitton, T.J. Lang, Jeff Saturday, Evan Dietrich-Smith, Ray Dominguez

Unfortunately, I'm guessing Datko can't stay healthy. The Packers seemed to be intrigued by Campbell. It's hard to put a UFDA like Brooks on the final roster, but I think he has a chance. Seems like Datko vs. Campbell and Dominguez vs. Brooks.

[Lurker64]

WR/TE

1) Does Driver get cut?
2) If not, everybody assumes Gurley makes the team, but Borel is intriguing. Call Gurley the favorite, but Borel is a dark horse.
3) If so, do the Packers keep 6 WRs this year?

My gut right now says:

WR Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Tori Gurley

I would not be at all surprised if Driver is cut. I think the only way they keep him is if he agrees. He's still a good player, but I don't think there's any way he's worth $5m.

I think Dale Moss could conceivably beat out Gurley, whether that wins him a roster spot or not remains to be seen. Borel probably has the inside track over either of them but Moss is the sort of guy you may not be able to stash on the PS. Six WRs isn't out of the question (that's actually pretty normal in the NFL) but it will come down to roster numbers at other positions. I think they keep 7 DL and 3 QBs this year, so having only 5 WRs could be a necessity.


TE Jermichael Finley, Andrew Quarless, Tom Crabtree, Ryan Taylor, D.J. Williams

I'm going to say they keep 5 TEs again because I think they are all good enough to deserve a roster spot, but I have the feeling that one will get cut. I wouldn't be surprised by any of them getting cut. Quarless because of his injury. Crabtree because I think he's ordinary, and the two rookies from last year could beat him out if they improve. I was actually disappointed in Williams last year. I thought he'd look better. I was surprised by Taylor because he was better than I thought.

I think they keep four TEs by starting the season with Quarless on the PUP list. No guarantee he'll be healthy enough to play at all this year, so IR isn't out of the question once the "activate or IR" decision comes up. Williams is a guy who you kind of have to actually design plays for in order to get him the ball, he's not really a plug and play TE in Mac's offense as it was last year. It's entirely likely that Mac puts in some time in the lab this offseason to figure out what to do with him, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get traded either, he has value and may be a better fit for another team. That being said, since at least one UDFA is going to make this roster, I wouldn't be surprised if it's TE/FB Eric Lair out of Minnesota: the kid can pick up blitzes and catch the ball out of the backfield.

[HarveyWallbangers]

DL

1) What happens if Raji or Pickett get hurt?
2) Will we see Neal again?
3) Will Hargrove get suspended?
4) Where are these guys going to play and who is fighting who for a spot? Muir vs. Guy for the backup to Raji and Pickett? Hargrove vs. Daniels vs. Wynn for an interior rush position or two? Does Wilson stick around until Neal comes back, if he does?

Hardest positon to project. You could guess just about any combination, and I'd probably think it was plausible.

My gut right now says:

DL B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Jerel Worthy, Anthony Hargrove, Daniel Muir, Mike Daniels, C.J. Wilson

I'm going to project that they keep 7--which would be one more than usual. Mostly because of the uncertainty of Neal and Hargrove. Who is the most likely to backup the big guys? Muir? If so, then he has a solid shot at making the roster. Perhaps Worthy can play that role. Wynn could win a spot again, but I would think picking up three pass rushing types (Worthy, Hargrove, Daniels) does not bode well for him. A big crapshoot here.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think they keep four TEs by starting the season with Quarless on the PUP list. No guarantee he'll be healthy enough to play at all this year, so IR isn't out of the question once the "activate or IR" decision comes up.

Good point about not counting on Quarless. That would free up one roster spot at another position. If so, then they'll likely keep the other three backups from last year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

LB

1) How many do they keep? Pittsburgh and New England have kept 10 or more LBs before.
2) Francois vs. Manning at backup ILB? Or do they keep both?
3) Which of the three headed monster at ROLB from last year gets cut?
4) Will one of the developmental projects from last year show enough to earn a spot over a suddenly crowded position?

OLB Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Vic So'oto, Erik Walden
ILB Desmond Bishop, A.J. Hawk, D.J. Smith, Robert Francois, Terrell Manning

I kept So'oto on the roster because the brass seems to be intent on improving the pass rush, and he flashed a bit of pass rush last year. Walden, Zombo, or Jones? I'm guessing at least one and perhaps two get cut. I'm going to eliminate Zombo because he's had a hard time staying healthy. Tossup between Walden and Jones. I'm going with Walden because I think at his best he's been a better player. I'm guessing he comes in focused this year and won't have the distractions from last year. I could see them keeping 10 though. They've kept four ILBs previously, so I have a hard time projecting 5 ILBs, but Francois showed potential last year and they traded up to get Manning.

[HarveyWallbangers]

DB

1) Does Woodson move to safety?
2) Will we see Bush playing defense much anymore?
3) Does House improve enough to challenge for playing time?
4) Which young safety will challenge Peprah for a starting spot? Do we look to find a safety on another team?

CB Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Casey Hayward, Davon House, Jarrett Bush
S Morgan Burnett, Charlie Peprah, Jerron McMillian, M.D. Jennings

Another tough position to project--mainly because Hayward does a lot of things that you'd want somebody replacing Charles Woodson to do. I don't think it's far-fetched to project Woodson to safety. Williams, Shields, and Hayward as the corners in nickel. Woodson and Burnett at safety. On paper, that looks like the best roster. I'd rather have Shields in base or Hayward in nickel on the field over Peprah. Or Hayward could have been drafted to light a fire under Shields. Until I hear that they are thinking about moving Woodson and Woodson is agreeable, I have to project this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

ST

K Mason Crosby
P Tim Masthay
LS Brett Goode
KR Randall Cobb
PR Randall Cobb

Nothing to see here. Move along.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And after that, I have too many guys on the roster. Got to pare this sucker down.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So many possibilities that this is an exercise in futility. My 53 follows, but Coleman could be put on PS, Grant could be resigned, Driver could be kept, if Datko stays healthy he could make the squad and Dominguez or somebody else could be kept on the inside, who knows with the DL and LB positions, Woodson could move to safety (which could possibly free up a roster spot elsewhere).

QB Aaron Rodgers, Graham Harrell, B.J. Coleman
RB James Starks, Brandon Saine, Alex Green
FB John Kuhn
WR Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb
WR Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Tori Gurley
TE Jermichael Finley, Tom Crabtree, Ryan Taylor, D.J. Williams, (Andrew Quarless)
LT Marshall Newhouse, Derek Sherrod
LG T.J. Lang
C Jeff Saturday, Evan Dietrich-Smith
RG Josh Sitton
RT Bryan Bulaga, Chris Campbell, (Andrew Datko)

LDE Ryan Pickett, C.J. Wilson
NT B.J. Raji, Daniel Muir
RDE Jerel Worthy, Anthony Hargrove, Mike Daniels, (Mike Neal)
LOLB Clay Matthews, Vic So'oto
LILB A.J. Hawk, D.J. Smith
RILB Desmond Bishop, Robert Francois, Terrell Manning
ROLB Nick Perry, Erik Walden
LCB Charles Woodson, Casey Hayward, Jarrett Bush
RCB Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Davon House
SS Charlie Peprah, Jerron McMillian
FS Morgan Burnett, M.D. Jennings

K Mason Crosby
P Tim Masthay
LS Brett Goode
RET Randall Cobb

[pbmax]

Agree with Quarless on PUP for almost any reason including hangnail. Would need to hide Coleman if they plan to stash him on the PS, assuming he is healthy and flashes potential.

Capers told Drew Smith that it is not planned to move Woodson to safety full time. It will be interesting to see if we start to hear alternate 40 times for Hayward. I might suspect the Packers of thinking his is faster than he timed at the Combine. Does anyone know if his Pro Day numbers were different than the combine?

I am worried about a big body to backup both Raji and Pickett.

[pittstang5]

Hey Harv, what about Lawrence Guy, DE, who was injured last year. I think he could beat out Wilson if he shows anything. He's at least got good size (6' 4" - 305 lbs.) for DE position. Darkhorse candidate to make the roster over Wilson?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sure. Put all of the guys not named Raji, Pickett, Worthy, and probably Hargrove in a hat, pull out 2-3 names and you'll have as a good of a chance at picking the last DL as what I posted.

[Brandon494]

I still don't understand why everyone is so quick to cut Driver. It's obviously he's not going to be making 5M next season and if cut he's not going to get anything but the vet minimum anywhere else so I don't see him having a problem with reworking his deal. I guarntee he'll be on the team next season and I'll believe we'll keep 6 WRs this year with Gurley taking Quarless's spot on the roster.

[Scott Campbell]

QB

1) Does Harrell show enough to be the backup or will the Packers have to go outside of the organization for a backup? The brass has shown no inclination to do so. Yet.
2) Coleman would seem to have the upper hand if the Packers keep three QBs--provided Harrell wins the backup spot.
3) If neither Coleman nor Hill show anything, they could keep just two QBs again.

My gut right now says

QB Aaron Rodgers, Graham Harrell, B.J. Coleman



Coleman was drafted as a "developmental backup prospect". He's going to have to really show something to make the team. I think he's most likely a practice squad guy.

[Scott Campbell]

I still don't understand why everyone is so quick to cut Driver.


Yes you do. You just don't agree with the logic. And I can respect that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I still don't understand why everyone is so quick to cut Driver. It's obviously he's not going to be making 5M next season and if cut he's not going to get anything but the vet minimum anywhere else so I don't see him having a problem with reworking his deal. I guarntee he'll be on the team next season and I'll believe we'll keep 6 WRs this year with Gurley taking Quarless's spot on the roster.

With the depth at other positions, it will be hard to keep 6 WRs. I think Ron Wolf always said it's better to cut a guy a year early than a year late. Mainly, there was a buzz about Gurley on the practice squad. I believe the hype because when we hear this kind of buzz, it's usually not hyperbole. I think back to Tramon Williams and some other no names that came out of nowhere. I believe the guy really showed a lot in practice, and that is why they decided to pay him so much when the Vikings wanted to sign him. Also, I don't think the comments by McCarthy and Thompson bode well for Driver. When asked about Clifton, McCarthy said they plan to have him on the roster and it will depend on his rehab. When asked about Driver, McCarthy and Thompson gave some nonsense about not speculating on it. Also, we have a guy on the roster (Randall Cobb) who will likely be better than Driver this year that is ready for more playing time.

[sharpe1027]

I can't see Coleman drawing much attention; he's just not that likely to get poached. Unless he's lights-out in preseason, he's probably as safe on the PS as anyone. If he is lights-out, he probably deserves a roster spot anyway.

[Smeefers]

I can't see Coleman drawing much attention; he's just not that likely to get poached. Unless he's lights-out in preseason, he's probably as safe on the PS as anyone. If he is lights-out, he probably deserves a roster spot anyway.

The nice thing about the practice squad is a team is that if a team wants to poach someone, they have to put them on the 53 man roster. It's hard to do that for a back up QB. Hell, even when the Bills nabbed Brohm, they started him right off the bat because they absolutely needed a guy.

I'm still up in the air, but the closer we get to the start of the season, the more I'm with Brandon on this one and say Driver is going to stay. It's real easy to get rid of someone who doesn't appear to produce much, but I think one of our problems last year was the lack of a back ups in or LB core. No one today talks about loosing Nick Barnett and Brandon Chiller, but it hurt us more than we probably know. Everyone knew why we let Barnett go (right or wrong, it's an argument for that other thread), but loosing chiller was just another one of those nails in the coffin on our D last year. Who knows how good our pass D would have been last year if Chiller had been in on 3rd downs instead of Hawk. Hell, just having Chiller to spell Hawk could have upped his play.

That's why I think we keep driver. Even though he may fall to the #4 or #5 spot on the WR crew, he's someone who MM and AR will trust when the rubber hits the road. No one on our team is better on 3rd and 7, especially when it's a 5 yard route. He's unselfish, solid, and a contributer. Bottom line, we have a better chance of getting a ring this year with him than we do without him.

[Brandon494]

With the depth at other positions, it will be hard to keep 6 WRs. I think Ron Wolf always said it's better to cut a guy a year early than a year late. Mainly, there was a buzz about Gurley on the practice squad. I believe the hype because when we hear this kind of buzz, it's usually not hyperbole. I think back to Tramon Williams and some other no names that came out of nowhere. I believe the guy really showed a lot in practice, and that is why they decided to pay him so much when the Vikings wanted to sign him. Also, I don't think the comments by McCarthy and Thompson bode well for Driver. When asked about Clifton, McCarthy said they plan to have him on the roster and it will depend on his rehab. When asked about Driver, McCarthy and Thompson gave some nonsense about not speculating on it. Also, we have a guy on the roster (Randall Cobb) who will likely be better than Driver this year that is ready for more playing time.

How is it going to be hard to keep Driver? We only drafted two offensive players who were both 7th round picks. With Quarless injury late in the season he's not going to be ready to go. What's so hard to understand about keeping 6 WRs and 4 TEs? You cut veterans like Driver when you are rebuilding, NOT when you are SB favorites and the team is clearly better with him then without.

[Brandon494]

Yes you do. You just don't agree with the logic. And I can respect that.

It's not logic in cutting a veteran like Driver for a player like Gurley who's just another Ruvell Martin. Now if he refused to rework his contract then it's a no brainer but I doubt that's going to happen.

[sharpe1027]

If Driver can play at the same level he did last year, I think he has a decent chance to make the roster. The problem is that he is yet another year older. How can we expect him not to be even slower and less explosive this year? I just don't see him maintaining it another year. Love the guy and if he proves me wrong, the team will be that much better. Still, my best guess is that he's not going to have quite enough to make it this year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I respect the reasoning that went into Harvey's depth charts. IT would be hard to guess what the depth chart will be like even without the untested rookies. We have Mike Neal who could be anything, two running backs who are mysteries, Driver at the end, Sherrod unknown. It won't get interesting until mid August when we at least have some tweets from practice observors as clues. Right now is like predicting a chicken race by examining the shape of some eggs. No, I take that back, it's not like that.

[Guiness]

I don't buy us keeping 6 WR's, unless the 6th guy is a special teams monster. Have we done it in recent history? You don't generally get enough production out of those guys outside of their roles in regular offensive set to justify carrying an extra one.

In another thread I mentioned I'm surprised no one thinks Jones may be the odd guy out. Not saying I think it will happen, just that it's as likely as anything else if one of the rookies really impresses. Also, with Finley lining up wide, I think we're more likely to carry 4 WR's than 6!

[Fosco33]

I love DD - but it's time for him to make room for younger talent. I'm sure he'll make a run at another team and maybe has 2-3 years left...

[mraynrand]

How is it going to be hard to keep Driver? We only drafted two offensive players who were both 7th round picks. With Quarless injury late in the season he's not going to be ready to go. What's so hard to understand about keeping 6 WRs and 4 TEs? You cut veterans like Driver when you are rebuilding, NOT when you are SB favorites and the team is clearly better with him then without.

That's the only point that matters. Are they better with him? If he's lost a dance step or two, then they might not be better with him, even with his experience. Packers want to dominate on matchups, and if he's slipped enough where he can't get open easily against the nickel and dime corner of the opposition, he's not worth keeping. This is a moot argument; you'll know right away in camp if Driver is ready to go. If he's not, he'll be released early on and go sign with Cleveland.

[Smeefers]

That's the only point that matters. Are they better with him? If he's lost a dance step or two, then they might not be better with him, even with his experience. Packers want to dominate on matchups, and if he's slipped enough where he can't get open easily against the nickel and dime corner of the opposition, he's not worth keeping. This is a moot argument; you'll know right away in camp if Driver is ready to go. If he's not, he'll be released early on and go sign with Cleveland.

Ding.

This I agree with.

[Brandon494]

I don't buy us keeping 6 WR's, unless the 6th guy is a special teams monster. Have we done it in recent history? You don't generally get enough production out of those guys outside of their roles in regular offensive set to justify carrying an extra one.

In another thread I mentioned I'm surprised no one thinks Jones may be the odd guy out. Not saying I think it will happen, just that it's as likely as anything else if one of the rookies really impresses. Also, with Finley lining up wide, I think we're more likely to carry 4 WR's than 6!

No way in hell would we go into the season with only 4 WRs even with Finley. We are a passing team, why would it be so hard to see us going into the season with 6 WRs which must teams do BTW.

[sharpe1027]

I agree that carrying only 4 WRs is highly unlikely.

[Scott Campbell]

I guarntee he'll be on the team next season and I'll believe we'll keep 6 WRs this year with Gurley taking Quarless's spot on the roster.


Even if we keep 6 WR, I'm not sure Driver beats out Borel and the FA's. Though keeping 6 WR would help his chances.

As for keeping 6 WR, we seemed to do pretty well last year while Jennings was hurt and we were down to only 4 healthy. I'm not sure we really need 6.

[MJZiggy]

Even if we keep 6 WR, I'm not sure Driver beats out Borel and the FA's. Though keeping 6 WR would help his chances.

As for keeping 6 WR, we seemed to do pretty well last year while Jennings was hurt and we were down to only 4 healthy. I'm not sure we really need 6.

But if we'd only had four at the time, who would have taken the slack while Jennings was hurt? We did it with a starting roster of six not four. On a roster of four, if two get hurt, you have a serious problem.

[red]

i might be most excited about the drafting of manning, and i have no clue where he will line up. my favorite pre draft site (draft ace) had him listed as the #3 olb in the draft with a rating of 88/100.

the guy was a massive steal in the 5th round. he's small, only 235, but has tons of talent

[Scott Campbell]

But if we'd only had four at the time, who would have taken the slack while Jennings was hurt? We did it with a starting roster of six not four. On a roster of four, if two get hurt, you have a serious problem.

Our starting roster only had 5, not 6.

You're right - I don't think we keep just 4. I'd say 90% chance of 5. Outside chance of 6.

The other reason I think we only keep 5 is that Finley sometimes lines up as a WR.

[Brandon494]

i might be most excited about the drafting of manning, and i have no clue where he will line up. my favorite pre draft site (draft ace) had him listed as the #3 olb in the draft with a rating of 88/100.

the guy was a massive steal in the 5th round. he's small, only 235, but has tons of talent

Yea I think Manning was the steal of the draft for us as well, I think he'll eventually take Hawk's spot at ILB in the future.

[King Friday]

How is it going to be hard to keep Driver? We only drafted two offensive players who were both 7th round picks.

Because we just drafted about 800 defensive players, and if a majority of them make a case for the final roster it will mean some DIFFICULT decisions on defense. I'm guessing Thompson (and myself as well) would rather keep a young kid on defense with promise over some old, over the hill WR hanging onto the #5 or #6 WR spot.

Ron Wolf is smarter than you when it comes to football. He said get rid of a guy too early instead of too late. That's all I need, frankly. The Steelers (a smart organization) got rid of Ward. The Patriots have been getting rid of guys well before they were dogs for years now. The better organizations realize that YOUTH is often more important, and will favor the young guys. Dumbass teams hang onto guys until they have no worth and are wasted space on the roster.

[Brandon494]

Because we just drafted about 800 defensive players, and if a majority of them make a case for the final roster it will mean some DIFFICULT decisions on defense. I'm guessing Thompson (and myself as well) would rather keep a young kid on defense with promise over some old, over the hill WR hanging onto the #5 or #6 WR spot.

Ron Wolf is smarter than you when it comes to football. He said get rid of a guy too early instead of too late. That's all I need, frankly. The Steelers (a smart organization) got rid of Ward. The Patriots have been getting rid of guys well before they were dogs for years now. The better organizations realize that YOUTH is often more important, and will favor the young guys. Dumbass teams hang onto guys until they have no worth and are wasted space on the roster.

Kevin Faulk would disagree. Also anyone who watches football can see that Donald Driver had A LOT more left in the tank then Hiness Ward had last season. We are still one of the youngest teams in the league so obviously TT knows youth is important but that doesn't mean veteran leadership isn't as well. Driver was one of the only players that showed up in that Giants game and caught 5 TDs in the last six games. Has he lost a step? Sure but you guys are acting like his numbers are down because he can no longer play when it has more to due with us having to spread the ball around with so much talent on offense. Saying Driver would be a wasted space on the roster is just an ignorant statement IMO.

[Scott Campbell]

Fans always have a soft spot in their hearts for loyal and aging vets.

[smuggler]

Driver is still serviceable. He's not fast, but he is still extremely quick. Part of the reason his numbers are down is his role on the team has diminished. I feel it's diminished more than his skills. If one of the other guys fills that role almost as well as Driver or better, then he goes. Will it happen? Watch in the preseason and find out!

[mission]

I'm all about cutting old guys who aren't performing to their contract; actually get excited when I hear about. But Driver, man... I think he's still better than any #5 we can put out there and his contract is offset by the leadership he brings to the team. By the time we need the extra money, DD's contract is off the books and it's not an issue.

If you have a guy with massive upside waiting in the wings then I get see the argument for not wanting to stunt a young man's growth. Just not sure Gurley can be anything more than a decent #3 at best and most likely more of a Ruvell Martin. Not like DD is taking away from Cobb's opportunities.

[Guiness]

I was definitely being tongue in cheek when suggesting we might keep only 4 - that's pretty unheard of. My point was more that it's just as silly to keep 6 as it is to carry only 4.

These aren't LB's or TE's that can tear it up on ST's. Other than KR/PR and the very occasional Bodiford style gunner, wide receivers are just wide receivers.

[Brandon494]

I'm all about cutting old guys who aren't performing to their contract; actually get excited when I hear about. But Driver, man... I think he's still better than any #5 we can put out there and his contract is offset by the leadership he brings to the team. By the time we need the extra money, DD's contract is off the books and it's not an issue.

If you have a guy with massive upside waiting in the wings then I get see the argument for not wanting to stunt a young man's growth. Just not sure Gurley can be anything more than a decent #3 at best and most likely more of a Ruvell Martin. Not like DD is taking away from Cobb's opportunities.

Oh hes definitely going to have to take a pay cut which I don't think he'll have any problem doing.

[Brandon494]

I was definitely being tongue in cheek when suggesting we might keep only 4 - that's pretty unheard of. My point was more that it's just as silly to keep 6 as it is to carry only 4.

These aren't LB's or TE's that can tear it up on ST's. Other than KR/PR and the very occasional Bodiford style gunner, wide receivers are just wide receivers.

Actually a lot of teams carry 6 WRs but you wont find one team that only carries 4. Especially since we run 5 wide more than any team in the league other than the Saints.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Sorry to say it, Driver doesn't have it anymore. Taking away snaps from Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Jones will only hurt the team. Let Guriley or another young guy develop into a player. One of the best to play in green bay, but its time to move on.

[Lurker64]

i might be most excited about the drafting of manning, and i have no clue where he will line up. my favorite pre draft site (draft ace) had him listed as the #3 olb in the draft with a rating of 88/100.

the guy was a massive steal in the 5th round. he's small, only 235, but has tons of talent

Most likely he's a specialist ILB who comes in during passing situations. He's a good blitzer, and he can cover. I don't think he'll hold up on the outside in the run game. Long term he could replace Bishop or Hawk.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think the writing was on the wall when the Giants covered Driver with a LB several times in the playoff game and he couldn't take advantage. His play dropped off a lot last year. It had nothing to do with his role. He just wasn't the same player.

[swede]

Ron Wolf is smarter than you when it comes to football. He said get rid of a guy too early instead of too late. That's all I need, frankly. The Steelers (a smart organization) got rid of Ward. The Patriots have been getting rid of guys well before they were dogs for years now. The better organizations realize that YOUTH is often more important, and will favor the young guys. Dumbass teams hang onto guys until they have no worth and are wasted space on the roster.

Hey, rookie...I earned my place on Packerrats. And I never take a day off.

And I was going to say some other stuff too, but whatever. Go read some of my old stuff.

[Gunakor]

Sorry to say it, Driver doesn't have it anymore. Taking away snaps from Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Jones will only hurt the team. Let Guriley or another young guy develop into a player. One of the best to play in green bay, but its time to move on.

He had it against New York in January. He was perhaps the only one who had it against New York in January.

He wouldn't be taking snaps away from Jennings, Nelson, Cobb or Jones as a #5. He'd only see the field when the Packers go 5 wide, or in the event of an injury. He'd not only be the best #5 WR in the NFL, he'd also be the best insurance policy in the NFL. If he agrees to a pay cut then he should be putting on a Packers jersey in 2012.

[Brandon494]

I think the writing was on the wall when the Giants covered Driver with a LB several times in the playoff game and he couldn't take advantage. His play dropped off a lot last year. It had nothing to do with his role. He just wasn't the same player.

He had the most receiving yards in that game and was the only WR to catch a TD.

[Brandon494]

He had it against New York in January. He was perhaps the only one who had it against New York in January.

He wouldn't be taking snaps away from Jennings, Nelson, Cobb or Jones as a #5. He'd only see the field when the Packers go 5 wide, or in the event of an injury. He'd not only be the best #5 WR in the NFL, he'd also be the best insurance policy in the NFL. If he agrees to a pay cut then he should be putting on a Packers jersey in 2012.

Yup

[3irty1]

I don't think it can be understated how good DD is for the other receivers. He is definitely the bell cow of the group and his work ethic and knack for the small things of the position really seem to rub off on the rest of the group. Now that we have our slot receiver of the future I want Driver around as a role model. DD is a paragon of receiving wide.

[Bossman641]

I think the writing was on the wall when the Giants covered Driver with a LB several times in the playoff game and he couldn't take advantage. His play dropped off a lot last year. It had nothing to do with his role. He just wasn't the same player.

Yep. He was catching passes against the LB, but he was getting very little separation. Those are the opportunities where you should be looking for big plays.

[Bretsky]

Anybody besides me think Driver was playing injured most of last year ??

[Joemailman]

Anybody besides me think Driver was playing injured most of last year ??

Maybe, but he might be getting to the point where he can't recover as well from injuries as he did in the past. His body may be breaking down a bit which could lead to more injuries.

[pbmax]

Most likely he's a specialist ILB who comes in during passing situations. He's a good blitzer, and he can cover. I don't think he'll hold up on the outside in the run game. Long term he could replace Bishop or Hawk.

Moss was the coach who talked about him to the press. He would seem to be the new Chillar if he can cover.

[Brandon494]

BTW you guys do realize LBs play zone coverage at times right? A LB covering underneath routes isn't the same as a LB covering DD in man to man coverage. The Giants doing a lot of zone blitz that game and obviously with Jennings and Nelson being our best deep threats your going to have Driver running the underneath routes. Unlike every other reciever Driver was the only guy not to drop a pass and put him the best recieving numbers in that playoff game. Yea should def cut him for a guy who had some decent preseason games last season.

[Brandon494]

Long term he should replace Hawk.

Fixed!

[pbmax]

I think we are one step ahead of ourselves here. Driver was not the #5 receiver last year. Didn't he get the third most snaps? Is Driver really going to want to be behind Jones AND Cobb?

I doubt he expects to be, paycut or no. A lot depends on where the Packers expect his playing time to be. If he will truly be the fifth, is that a situation either side is comfortable with?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think we are one step ahead of ourselves here. Driver was not the #5 receiver last year. Didn't he get the third most snaps? Is Driver really going to want to be behind Jones AND Cobb?

I doubt he expects to be, paycut or no. A lot depends on where the Packers expect his playing time to be. If he will truly be the fifth, is that a situation either side is comfortable with?

I'm guessing his snaps were pretty similar to Jordy and Jones, but Cobb was a rookie and it sounds like Gurley made a push on the PS late, so they weren't going to cut Driver towards the end of the year. It's not a given that Driver will be cut, but I'd say there's a decent chance. I think it all depends on the development of Gurley and/or Borel.

[pbmax]

... It's not a given that Driver will be cut, but I'd say there's a decent chance. I think it all depends on the development of Gurley and/or Borel.

At the end of August it will, yes. But what if the Packers and Driver sit down in July and the Packers (hypothetically) tell him he will truly be #5 in snaps? Cobb gets the slot snaps and Jones the 3rd wide guy?

Far more than Gurley or Borel, Cobb deserves more snaps (Jones a bit less so). If this conversation happens, I think he will want to leave, either to retire or play elsewhere.

But a lot depend on what the Packers think of the current 5. I think assuming Driver will accept a paycut and less of a role is no sure thing.

[Scott Campbell]

I thought Driver already said he'd take less money.

[Brandon494]

What makes you think Driver would rather leave or retire then to be the #5 retire with a chance to win another ring? He has never shown to be a diva reciever and has always been a great teammate. The #5 reiever in this offense will likely see just as much time as the #3 reciever. Driver, Jones, and Cobb all had similar numbers last season for the Pack.

[pbmax]

What makes you think Driver would rather leave or retire then to be the #5 retire with a chance to win another ring? He has never shown to be a diva reciever and has always been a great teammate. The #5 reiever in this offense will likely see just as much time as the #3 reciever. Driver, Jones, and Cobb all had similar numbers last season for the Pack.

I don't know that he would. It might be true he would accept a smaller role. But while we know he said he would redo the contract, no one has talked to him about his role on the team.

A lot of players don't want to backup younger players after they have been at the top of the heap. Like Hawk, it will generate a lot of questions and media play if he isn't in the slot. I am sure the Packers would protect him at all costs. I am not sure he wants to be in that position. Just speculating.

[Brandon494]

It's totally different situation then with Hawk. DD knows he is near the end of his career and he didnt show any problem with having a reduced role last season.

[sharpe1027]

BTW you guys do realize LBs play zone coverage at times right? A LB covering underneath routes isn't the same as a LB covering DD in man to man coverage. The Giants doing a lot of zone blitz that game and obviously with Jennings and Nelson being our best deep threats your going to have Driver running the underneath routes. Unlike every other reciever Driver was the only guy not to drop a pass and put him the best recieving numbers in that playoff game. Yea should def cut him for a guy who had some decent preseason games last season.

The reality is that at some point a player's ability drops off because of age. Driver has certainly reached that point, he's not the player he once was and nobody will argue with that. Is this the year he drops off enough to be cut? I don't know, but last year raised enough flags to indicate that it is at least a possibility.

You can keep denying even the possibility that this could happen, but it is right there staring you in the face.

[Scott Campbell]

Has anyone every played well after being on Dancing With The Stars?

[Gunakor]

I think we are one step ahead of ourselves here. Driver was not the #5 receiver last year. Didn't he get the third most snaps? Is Driver really going to want to be behind Jones AND Cobb?


I think Driver wants to be a Packer at whatever capacity. Even as a #5.

[Rutnstrut]

All this arguing about whether Driver has dropped off enough to be cut is pointless, he is still more talented than Jones. Cut Jones keep Driver, that's pretty simple, and you all make it sound like TT's job is tough;)

[Gunakor]

All this arguing about whether Driver has dropped off enough to be cut is pointless, he is still more talented than Jones. Cut Jones keep Driver, that's pretty simple, and you all make it sound like TT's job is tough;)


Keep all and put Gurley and Borel on the PS. Return the same WR corps that set Packer records last season. If it ain't broke...

[Pugger]

But can Gurley and Borel go BACK on the PS this season? :cnf:

[Gunakor]

But can Gurley and Borel go BACK on the PS this season? :cnf:


I would assume so. How long did we keep Graham Harrell down there?

[Joemailman]

They can, but if they get offers from other teams, they don't have to. I doubt they'd agree to spend another year on the practice squad if they have the opportunity to be on some team's 53 man roster.

[Smeefers]

I don't think it can be understated how good DD is for the other receivers. He is definitely the bell cow of the group and his work ethic and knack for the small things of the position really seem to rub off on the rest of the group. Now that we have our slot receiver of the future I want Driver around as a role model. DD is a paragon of receiving wide.

This reminds me of pretty much any time you saw our wide recievers together in an interview or something. They always looked to driver to start an answer. He's the unquestionable leader of that WR Corps. I'm not saying they need him like they did 2 years ago when Jordy and Jones were still really raw and Jennings hadn't come into his own, but you can see him as a type of father figure to these other guys. I can still see Jennings doing stuff driver used to do to get an extra yard. I don't see it quite as much in Jordy, but I also see it in James. Maybe he is gone this year, maybe not. I just have a real hard time seeing them dump him for someone who can't play as well yet.

[Upnorth]

If Gurley or Borel truley out play Driver, I hope he see's the writing on the wall. Further to that I hope TT see's the writing on the WR's face and make Driver a coach. He knows the position, knows this offense and knows the players. How many times have we seen cut aways to him talking things out with the other receivers or qb's he has been playing with?

[pbmax]

All this arguing about whether Driver has dropped off enough to be cut is pointless, he is still more talented than Jones. Cut Jones keep Driver, that's pretty simple, and you all make it sound like TT's job is tough;)

Driver is not more talented than Jones at this point. Better at finding a hole in the zone? Maybe.

[pbmax]

Speaking of bad tackling, courtesy of Mike Vandermause, some info about the culprits:

Mike Vandermause ‏ @MikeVandermause
Those #Packers missed tackle numbers according to http://Profootballfocus.com

Mike Vandermause ‏ @MikeVandermause
Worst offenders for #Packers missed tackles in 2011: Woodson 18, Tramon Williams 16, Peprah 11, Shields 10, Burnett 9, Bishop 8, Hawk 8.


https://twitter.com/#!/MikeVandermause/status/197113197684195329

[Upnorth]

Speaking of bad tackling, courtesy of Mike Vandermause, some info about the culprits:

Mike Vandermause ‏ @MikeVandermause
Those #Packers missed tackle numbers according to http://Profootballfocus.com

Mike Vandermause ‏ @MikeVandermause
Worst offenders for #Packers missed tackles in 2011: Woodson 18, Tramon Williams 16, Peprah 11, Shields 10, Burnett 9, Bishop 8, Hawk 8.


https://twitter.com/#!/MikeVandermause/status/197113197684195329

Ouch. So were all the missed tackels due to them positioning themselves to inctercept the ball?

[Smeefers]

Speaking of bad tackling, courtesy of Mike Vandermause, some info about the culprits:

Mike Vandermause ‏ @MikeVandermause
Those #Packers missed tackle numbers according to http://Profootballfocus.com

Mike Vandermause ‏ @MikeVandermause
Worst offenders for #Packers missed tackles in 2011: Woodson 18, Tramon Williams 16, Peprah 11, Shields 10, Burnett 9, Bishop 8, Hawk 8.


https://twitter.com/#!/MikeVandermause/status/197113197684195329

Wood did have a pretty crappy year last year. I do remember that.

Man, we get half those numbers back and our defense isn't so horrible. Yuck. Our secondary accounted for 64 missed tackles.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Driver is not more talented than Jones at this point. Better at finding a hole in the zone? Maybe.

Agreed. The only question is whether he's more talented than Gurley. If it's close, he's likely gone. That's why I say a lot of this depends on Gurley. Or perhaps Borel.

[Smidgeon]

I think we are one step ahead of ourselves here. Driver was not the #5 receiver last year. Didn't he get the third most snaps? Is Driver really going to want to be behind Jones AND Cobb?

I doubt he expects to be, paycut or no. A lot depends on where the Packers expect his playing time to be. If he will truly be the fifth, is that a situation either side is comfortable with?

He had the third most snaps mid-season, and I think it's relatively safe to assume that continued. But in receptions, he was the fourth WR and the fifth total receiver (Finley) in receptions. He had twelve more receptions than Cobb, but they were also tied mid-season. So Driver stepped up, Cobb hit a wall, or teams figured out they could cover Driver with a linebacker.

Driver also had the lowest yards per reception out of the five receivers and Finley. Not a lot to be trumpeting for someone who's "still got it" and "still lightning quick".

If Driver did get the third most snaps (and I'm guessing there's a big drop off between the #3 and #4 WR in that category), then he was the most inefficient receiver on the field.

[denverYooper]

Oh hes definitely going to have to take a pay cut which I don't think he'll have any problem doing.

The possibility of going out with another ring is probably worth quite a bit for 'ol Dud.

[Joemailman]

No way Driver loses out to a Gurley man.

[mraynrand]

Agreed. The only question is whether he's more talented than Gurley. If it's close, he's likely gone. That's why I say a lot of this depends on Gurley. Or perhaps Borel.

Or Driver

[Smeefers]

Driver also had the lowest yards per reception out of the five receivers and Finley. Not a lot to be trumpeting for someone who's "still got it" and "still lightning quick".


Did Someone really call driver "lightning quick?" I mean, I know he's not wobbling out there with a walker or anything, but he's definitely the slowest of our WR's. No one here is saying Driver is as good as he used to be. What we're saying is that he's still solid and dependable and he does still have some moves. Also, I don't think anyone is suggesting that if one of the prospects is better than Driver that we keep driver over the superior prospect. What we're arguing is that you shouldn't drop Driver for a chance at something greater, you drop him when you're sure you've got something greater.

[sharpe1027]

Or Driver

Exactly. It is not so much about a new WR stepping up as it is how much Driver continues to go downhill. For the record, I readily admit that he might have another good year in him, but to blindly assume he's not going to drop off further due to age is somewhat naive, IMHO.

[Smidgeon]

Did Someone really call driver "lightning quick?" I mean, I know he's not wobbling out there with a walker or anything, but he's definitely the slowest of our WR's. No one here is saying Driver is as good as he used to be. What we're saying is that he's still solid and dependable and he does still have some moves. Also, I don't think anyone is suggesting that if one of the prospects is better than Driver that we keep driver over the superior prospect. What we're arguing is that you shouldn't drop Driver for a chance at something greater, you drop him when you're sure you've got something greater.


Driver is still serviceable. He's not fast, but he is still extremely quick.

It wasn't an exact quote, but it was close.

[Bossman641]

The Packer offense ran 1,080 plays during the year

Here is the breakdown of snap counts for Finley and the WR.

Finley - 833 (77.1%)
Jennings - 675 (62.4%)
Nelson - 633 (58.6%)
Driver - 519 (48.1%)
Jones - 516 (47.8%)
Cobb - 287 (26.6%)

Cobb has too much potential for there to be that large of a discrepancy between his snaps and Driver's. Nelson and Jones work primarily on the outside. Jennings and Finley can do both. Cobb and Driver are better in the slot. I'd imagine Gurley would primarily work outside the hashes. Assuming Borel is more of a slot guy? I haven't seen enough of him to know if he could work outside.

[Lurker64]

But can Gurley and Borel go BACK on the PS this season? :cnf:

Yes, but I doubt we will be able to keep either of them there all season. Both Gurley and Borel were offered roster spots by other teams last year, and stayed in Green Bay for a raise and (presumably) a promise at an honest chance at winning a roster spot next year. If they get waived at the end of camp this year, they will probably end up playing elsewhere. If both are waived, at least one will.

[Guiness]

Dark horse in this race: Dale Moss. His reported numbers are 6'3" 213lbs, 4.45sec 40, 10'10" broad jump and a 41" (!!) vertical. He also had the best 3 cone time. All of these numbers are from the South Dakota pro day, of course. He was not at the combine.

Converted basketball player, so should have good hands. Only played one year of college football, played basketball for 4 years prior to that.

[swede]

Dark horse in this race: Dale Moss. His reported numbers are 6'3" 213lbs, 4.45sec 40, 10'10" broad jump and a 41" (!!) vertical. He also had the best 3 cone time. All of these numbers are from the South Dakota pro day, of course. He was not at the combine.

Converted basketball player, so should have good hands. Only played one year of college football, played basketball for 4 years prior to that.

If a receiver is that physically gifted, athletic, and has proven himself to be skilled at another sport, how much of an impediment is the lack of experience with route running and creating separation while staying within the timing of the pattern? I imagine it is actually a huge impediment, maybe even Lou Holtz big, and I guess we can hope that the kid hasn't learned any bad habits, anyway.

You'd love to the kid to light it up and make the team. Because if the football talent matches the physical talent--watch out!

To me he is like a lottery ticket with all your favorite numbers: I know it isn't going to happen but I like to think about it.

Dale Moss overcomes the odds, makes the team, wins the game, thanks fans for their support.

[mraynrand]

Dark horse in this race: Dale Moss. His reported numbers are 6'3" 213lbs, 4.45sec 40, 10'10" broad jump and a 41" (!!) vertical. He also had the best 3 cone time. All of these numbers are from the South Dakota pro day, of course. He was not at the combine.

Converted basketball player, so should have good hands. Only played one year of college football, played basketball for 4 years prior to that.

He'd probably make the 2001 squad. For sure he would at least beat out Ruvell Martin in a straight up competition. His biggest obstacle may be just a natural feel for the game. But at least he promises to be fun to follow in the first week of camp.

[Guiness]

That's it you wet blankets, I'm starting the fan club now!

[Iron Mike]

Here's my dark horse candidate:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/10/dubuques-michael-zweifel-breaks-ncaa-receptions-record/1

[Pugger]

Agreed. The only question is whether he's more talented than Gurley. If it's close, he's likely gone. That's why I say a lot of this depends on Gurley. Or perhaps Borel.

A lot of folks are eager to see Gurley play this summer but from what I'm reading Borel might be the more intriguing prospect.