NFC North 2009 draft revisited.

[Upnorth]

One website I frequent, coldhardfootballfacts.com has an article looking at the 2009 draft for the nfc north teams. Might interest some of you,

http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_5404_Flash-forward%3A_2009_NFC_North_draft_review.html

[woodbuck27]

Thanks Upnorth.

I found this article interesting. This draft appears to be a poor one for da Bears.

'Again' it's interesting that in the 2009 draft Ted Thompson upsurped the NE Pat's GM/HC Bill Bilichick to steal LB Clay Matthews. That seems to be a habit since the Pat's acquisition of Randy Moss. Maybe it's... mere coincidence!? Yet... how can a man by reputation of being such 'a sharpie' be upstaged over and over again by TT?

[BobDobbs]

That's a pretty amazing draft. Potential Hall of Famer, Pro Bowler, a solid starter. Then two backups who have grabbed a couple starts. The guys we cut have stuck around on other teams and even Brandon Underwood got invited to camp in Oakland. Technically no one from that draft is out of the league. Wow.

[smuggler]

Detroit's draft was much stronger that year, which is frustrating. However, we did have a nice one since we got the Claymaker and Raji and Lang.

[BobDobbs]

Detroit's draft was much stronger that year, which is frustrating. However, we did have a nice one since we got the Claymaker and Raji and Lang.

They were picking first in every round, plus had fleeced the cowboys for Roy Williams the year before for an extra three picks. So, they had a built in advantage.

I think time will tell who had the stronger draft. But, they did get a quarterback who looks like the real deal, so probably they will win that year.

[Patler]

Detroit's draft was much stronger that year, which is frustrating. However, we did have a nice one since we got the Claymaker and Raji and Lang.

I disagree that Detroit's was much stronger. Sure, they got Stafford, but the others are nothing special.

[Tony Oday]

Stafford is made of glass.

[Upnorth]

If Stafford can stay of the IR and stay on the field then the Lions had a better draft, however Clay and Raji look like huge difference makers so the difference between our drfat and theirs is not that great IMO.
I do miss the Millen era though...

[George Cumby]

I disagree that Detroit's was much stronger. Sure, they got Stafford, but the others are nothing special.

Right.

Stafford is solid but potentially brittle.

Pettigrew is good enough, but not great.

Delmas is a nice safety but our guys have lit him up.

Levy and Hill are unremarkable.

Compare that to:

CMIII. Stud for life.

Raji. Potential stud for life.

Lang. Turning into a solid left guard. Does anyone miss the guy from North Pole?

Wynn. Ugh, but still on the team.

Jones. One could say disappointing, but he was drafted in the 7th, so how disappointing can he be?

Also, I would say that Meredith was the worst pick of that draft and not Johnson.

Good thread, UpNorth.

[woodbuck27]

Detroit's draft was much stronger that year, which is frustrating. However, we did have a nice one since we got the Claymaker and Raji and Lang.

Yes they got their franchise QB.

[Zool]

Also, I would say that Meredith was the worst pick of that draft and not Johnson.

I said that same thing. Johnson wasn't drafted to carry the ball or catch the ball. He's a 6th lineman basically. Hard to get stats on that for any rankings system.

[ThunderDan]

Also, I would say that Meredith was the worst pick of that draft and not Johnson.



I agree. In the preseason games he played he set his pass protection on the same drop everytime. The DE than either went inside or outside that drop point and hassled Flynn and whoever else was playing that game.

I was surprised when he was plucked off of our practice squad. He was a player that needed at least 2 seasons on the practice squad before he was ready for live fire.

[Patler]

I agree. In the preseason games he played he set his pass protection on the same drop everytime. The DE than either went inside or outside that drop point and hassled Flynn and whoever else was playing that game.

I was surprised when he was plucked off of our practice squad. He was a player that needed at least 2 seasons on the practice squad before he was ready for live fire.

Even more amazing was that he started a few games for Buffalo later that season.

[sharpe1027]

Even more amazing was that he started a few games for Buffalo later that season.

It would have been more amazing if it was somewhere other than Buffalo... ;)

[Upnorth]

It would have been more amazing if it was somewhere other than Buffalo... ;)

Yet more reason to miss the old Millen era in detroit. Sigh.

[Fritz]

There's hope. It's possible that the Schvantz could self-destruct in Detroit if he can't keep a rein on the renegades there.

I do think Stafford alone makes that a more valuable draft for the Lions, but not by much. At all.

I also disagree with the article's assertion that TJ Lang is a valuable what, "swing" guy? I think that's what they called him. I think he's developing into a very solid starting guard.

[BobDobbs]

That was quite a year for the NFC North. Rodgers begins winning, Farve signs with the vikes, Cutler comes via trade, and Stafford shows up as the #1 pick. Good bye black and blue, hello air delivery.

It's three starters is a successful draft right, by that measure we were successful. Didn't get much out of the bottom of the draft, but no one really flamed out a la Brian Brohm.

[smuggler]

In no way was I suggesting our draft wasn't good. We had a nice draft, but they got more solid guys.

Matt Fratford
Raji > Pettigrew
Claymaker > Louis Delmas
Lang > DeAndre Levy
Wynn/Jones < Sammie Hill

If it weren't for FrattyBo, I'd say we came out ahead.

[sharpe1027]

I guess it depends on whether your are grading based purely on end results, or if you can take into consideration what draft picks they each had going into the draft. If you look at the relative draft positions and number of picks you can make a good argument that the Pack did more with less. If you just look at the end product, the Lions probably came out ahead.

[Fritz]

By contrast, no one is arguing that the Bears or the Vikes drafted very well that year.

One bit I found interesting a few weeks ago was MM's comment that the OTA's were a chance for the third and fourth year guys to really make big strides. Most of us, myself included, think it's the second year guys. So if MM is correct, that means there's still big improvements to be made for the 09 and 10 draft classes. Wow.

[woodbuck27]

By contrast, no one is arguing that the Bears or the Vikes drafted very well that year.

One bit I found interesting a few weeks ago was MM's comment that the OTA's were a chance for the third and fourth year guys to really make big strides. Most of us, myself included, think it's the second year guys. So if MM is correct, that means there's still big improvements to be made for the 09 and 10 draft classes. Wow.

Yup. This is going to be the best TC we have witnessed in a long time. So much to positively look for. We have talent available to us now moreso that I can recall certainly in the TT era.

[pbmax]

By contrast, no one is arguing that the Bears or the Vikes drafted very well that year.

One bit I found interesting a few weeks ago was MM's comment that the OTA's were a chance for the third and fourth year guys to really make big strides. Most of us, myself included, think it's the second year guys. So if MM is correct, that means there's still big improvements to be made for the 09 and 10 draft classes. Wow.

That is an odd one and seems like a good time not to take McCarthy's every pronouncement seriously.

By year 3 or 4, players should need an OTA to improve or impress. The exception here might be last year's rookies and single year vets who were set back a year of off season.

[Upnorth]

That is an odd one and seems like a good time not to take McCarthy's every pronouncement seriously.

By year 3 or 4, players should need an OTA to improve or impress. The exception here might be last year's rookies and single year vets who were set back a year of off season.

1st year rookie learning the ropes.
2nd year sophmore becoming assignment sure.
3rf year, show us what ya got.
Maybe this is what he means. No more excuses, just execute!

[RashanGary]

Each player is a little different. Some guys come in underdeveloped physically (maybe they went to a small school that didn't have a good weight program or a lot of the good performance enhancers circulating.) Maybe they came from a school that did not teach similar style techniques to what they're being asked to do on this level. Maybe both.

I've heard Ted Thompson say there are guys who can do it right away, and sometimes there are guys who take 3 years, then they're great players for the next 10.

By and large, year 2 is that magic number to expect a guy to take off. Year 4 seems like the last straw.


Clay Matthews came in a beast. Capers said he could play anywhere because he just knows how to play football. He was a guy who was ready from day one with his head and his body.

Greg Jennings was a natural from day one. He was athletic from day one, and picked it up quickly.

Bryan Bulaga was a guy who came out after his JR year, and after losing some weight due to his thyroid condition. Physically, he probably wasn't ready. Mentally although he came from a great school teaching OL, there's no doubt he could become a lot better. He gave up a lot of sacks (12) in his rookie year. He took off in year 2 and MM seems to think he's going to be dominant in year 3.

Marshall Newhouse came from a small school. He had room to grow physically, but his fundamentals were so far behind the curve he was strictly a developmental guy. It takes time to build that muscle memory and just play. Last year, year 2, was similar to Bulaga's rookie year. He got bounced around like Bulaga did, managed to find a spot on the starting line and gave up 12 sacks. Considering how much further along Bulaga was with technique, I would think Newhouse qualifies as that type of player who could take off as a heck of a player in year 3.


There are a lot of different paths to becoming great. From Matthews to Jennings, Rodgers, Nelson, Finley, Tramon, Collins, Sitton, Bulaga and others. . . . Each of our good/great players took a little different path.


I'd say anywhere from 2nd year through 4th year players, there is no telling just how much better a player can be. The ones who took longer all showed signs along the way.

TJ Lang could be a fuckin rock star this year and he was just good last year. He's in his 4th year.

Bulaga, Neal, Burnett, Newhouse and Starks could all take big jumps in their 3rd years.

Sherrod, Cobb, Green, House, DJ Williams, DJ Smith, even Lawrence Guy. . . . .

With the way last years offseason went, there is no telling how good any one of these players is/could be.


Just for the fun of it, I'll drop my money on. . . . . Lang, Newhouse, Bulaga, Starks, Cobb, House, DJ Williams and DJ Smith taking big jumps this year. For shits and giggles, throw Shields and MD Jennings in there too.



And my ready from day one rookie bet goes on Casey Hayward with Perry being a pass rush specialist who struggles like hell in other areas.

[pbmax]

Brian Williams was a guy who did not shine until Year 3. But everyone knew he could do more and he had an injury slowing him down along the way.

So I don't think its unheard of for guys to blossom in Year 3 or 4, but it seems to be oversold in this quote about OTAs. There are just as many who shine in the first two years, including low picks and UDFAs. Marshall Newhouse was being cited for his left tackle quality footwork in his rookie camp.

Maybe the argument is simply over the level achieved. Players usually at least flash something about their talent earlier than this, but M3 is talking about it happening every down, consistently, without mental errors in OTA Y3 or 4.

[Fritz]

Tauscher was a guy who just stepped in and seemed to "get it" right away. By contrast, Jordy Nelson took a couple years to become the receiver he is today.

[hoosier]

If memory serves, Cletidus Hunt didn't really blossom until his fourth year either.

[pbmax]

If memory serves, Cletidus Hunt didn't really blossom until his fourth year either.

And he is the cautionary tale GMs tell when you get excited about a contract year performance.

[Fritz]

If memory serves, Cletidus Hunt didn't really blossom until his fourth year either.

Then he wilted right after that.

[smuggler]

Clitoris Cunt

[Fritz]

I am really curious to see how the 2011 draft class plays this year. Sherrod will be coming back slowly, so I don't see him necessarily starting, but I do think he'll develop. I see Cobb and House making big strides this year.

In the meantime, the Lions' 2011 draft class will be drinking and toking away...

[hoosier]

I am really curious to see how the 2011 draft class plays this year. Sherrod will be coming back slowly, so I don't see him necessarily starting, but I do think he'll develop. I see Cobb and House making big strides this year.

In the meantime, the Lions' 2011 draft class will be drinking and toking away...

After a year it's looking like GB's 2011 draft has five guys with the potential to contribute as full-time players: Sherrod, Cobb, House, Smith and Green. If four out of that group can realize their potential, it will have been a very good draft.

[Fritz]

True, hoosier, and a good point. However, the Lions' 2011 draft class has three guys busted on drinking or drug charges and another who got kicked out of their OTA's. That's four lawbreakers in one draft class.

And that was without benefit of any offseason programs last year.

Lions, league leaders!