When Brett Favre gets hit, blame Thompson

[woodbuck27]

Posted August 18, 2006

Mike Vandermause column:

When Favre gets hit, blame Thompson

By Mike Vandermause

The sight of Brett Favre getting pounded into the turf Saturday night against the San Diego Chargers obviously was unnerving for the Packers' coaching staff.

Favre endured two sacks and at least three other knockdowns in less than two quarters during the preseason opener. At this rate, Favre's incredible durability streak of 221 consecutive regular-season starts will end quickly and painfully this season.

What do you expect when the Packers' starting offensive line includes two rookie guards?

Out of necessity, the Packers have nowhere to turn for help. Following Saturday's debacle, the coaching staff shook things up, but it merely involved substituting one rookie guard for another.

That leaves the Packers in the unenviable position of starting fifth-round draft choice Tony Moll at right guard in their preseason home game against Atlanta on Saturday. Moll never played guard before this week, and as recently as two years ago was a tight end at the University of Nevada.

Third-round draft pick Jason Spitz was shuffled from right guard to left guard to fill the spot vacated by demoted rookie Daryn Colledge.

How did it come to this? Two of the five linemen entrusted with protecting Favre have no NFL experience and will be learning on the job.

Don't blame the rookies, who have the potential to become solid starters. It's only natural they will experience growing pains.

Don't blame the coaches, who can't turn first-year talent into Pro Bowl players overnight.

Offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski, to his credit, announced this week that inexperience would not be used as an excuse.

Favre also took the high road when he refused to throw any of the rookie linemen under the bus, even though the quarterback must have felt like he got hit by a bus Saturday night.


The man most responsible for the Packers' predicament is General Manager Ted Thompson, who allowed starting guards Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera to get away during the 2005 offseason.

Thompson faced a difficult salary cap situation a year ago, and there's no way the Packers could have kept both starting guards. But some how, some way, Thompson should have found a way to re-sign Wahle.

Losing one starting guard can be overcome, but leaving two gaping holes in the offensive line is an overwhelming obstacle.

"You know, losing Mike Wahle, Marco, (center Mike Flanagan) — from a veteran quarterback's point of view — doesn't help, it really doesn't," Favre said.

"And I think any quarterback who has played for any period of time would love to have a veteran line. But, the nature of the game today is that you lose guys."

When that happens, there must be adequate replacements. But Thompson compounded the problem last year when he attempted to fill in the blanks with stopgap veterans Adrian Klemm and Matt O'Dwyer. Neither player panned out, and the Packers have been scrambling since.

To suggest Wahle is the missing piece to the Packers' Super Bowl puzzle would be silly, and in the long run, Thompson's approach of rebuilding the guard position through the draft might make the most sense.

But in the short run, Favre and the Packers' offense will suffer.

Mike Vandermause is sports editor of the Press-Gazette. Contact him via e-mail at mvandermause@greenbaypressgazette.com

Comment: woodbuck27

This should prompt a lively debate. :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

Packer fan comments on this article;

** Ted Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:00 pm

Ok ted just pisses me off, ur crazy to say hes doing a good job, with the 2nd highest salary cap wtf u have a chance to save ur kicking game by adding adam vinatieri, but b/c the best kicker in the leagues asking price was to much for tightwade thompson. you'd think ted is trying to set up brett for retirement by letting go mike flanagen mike wahle and marco rivera. doing that he leaves a huge hole in the middle of the line he also got rid of greg ruegamer so tell me who u have in that line besides clifton and tauscher? with all that money the only person to make a big impact is basicly woodson. but i mean in my opinion they had a great draft, but still where did all the money go anyway? screw building for the future at this point you have brett freaking favre u can build a super bowl team around him he shoulda signed some vets and like vinatieri, woodson,hunchinson, and then possibly others like porter, or LaVar arrington but what does he do? he signs one guy and saves some money while the packers will have to suffer this year b/c of his actions. the packers could really use a better GM
letting favre be gm? Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:46 pm


** thanks for the gut laugh. let's see, peyton manning has had marvin harrison for many seasons, joe montana and steve young had jerry rice, troy aikman had michael irvin, etc., etc. what's favre had, and for how many seasons in a row? anybody of the calibre of those folks? how many games has he misssed? how many times has he held out or publicly complained about the supporting talent? if that's a gm, no wonder the packers haven't been to the big game in a decade. thompson may turn out to be the best gm the packers ever had, but make no mistake, he did favre wrong. since the days of reggie white, leroy butler and keith jackson, the only big-time weapon favre has had has been ahman green, and his best days are behind him.


** Where was the money??? Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:41 pm

"But some how, some way, Thompson should have found a way to re-sign Wahle."

Someone should have called Thompson and let him know about the "money tree" that was around somewhere pehaps. A year later and all there is talk about what "should have been". It is over and we have to live with what we have and hopefully it will not be as bad as all the pessimist Packer fans seem to think.


** How to run a team Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:24 pm

The last 6 years we've been doing whatever it took to get Favre to win. Many poor decisions were made because we were living in the now instead of looking long term. It started when we paid Freeman too much and Sherman carried that torch even furthur when he traded up for Walker and overpaid for free agents.

Now we are doing it right. That means not paying guards a ton, not paying your kicker a ton. We are buliding through the draft and not letting Favre being our GM. It's going to be a little painful, especially if we lead the league in injuries like last year. It's worth it though, Thompson is doing the right thing for the Packers, not Favre and that's how it should be.


Comment woodbuck27:

HOLY MACKERAL.

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH PACKER FANS !!

[Kiwon]

I think the title of the article is right on. If Farve gets hurt this year or is hurried to the point of ineffectiveness then I think the blame goes straight to the top.

[Bretsky]

When I saw the title posted I already knew I'd agree.

TT has failed to bring in anybody resembling proven and has chosen to roll the dice. It's his success or failure for these young guys.

[the_idle_threat]

When Brett Favre gets hit ... DRINK!

[Bretsky]

When Brett Favre gets hit ... DRINK!

If he played two quarters we'd all be in DETOX

[FavreChild]

Oh, I'll blame Ted alright. :evil:

But just in case that doesn't make me feel better, I'll try the drinking game, too.

[woodbuck27]

When I saw the title posted I already knew I'd agree.

TT has failed to bring in anybody resembling proven and has chosen to roll the dice. It's his success or failure for these young guys.

B. and anyone else:

Do you agree with this statement?

I feel it's time, that members of OUR Packer Forum - Our Home as Packer fans - are astute (fully aware) to what is really "in OUR face" regarding the immediate future we share as Packer fans.

End of statement.

Further comment:

I don't mean that anyone accept my view ,but that as Packer fans here. . . .

We should be more, than less in concert, with regard to where OUR team really is.

Many people here could mean many views. We all share one thing in common. We are unique but this place needs a common understanding, of "the TRUTH" to determine "a reality - of progress".

As fans of the Packers. I believe it's the TEAM and the TEAM's success that is FIRST.

We are powerless to make the decisions, that will warrant any REAL success, but as fans we need to demand " the reality of that success " and not accept failure.

We are, as a board here - strong.

The level of intelligence here, the understanding of the game of football at the competition level here, the manners and personality's here, the degree of passion we have in concert here for THE GREEN BAY PACKERS . . .

is outstanding.

I recommend, that as members of the Packer Community of fans that we utilize this Forum, with one central focus. The health of "the PACKERS" as a football team. Is the TEAM getting what is necessary for support to be competitive?

Today, I am going to post on some hard facts that raise concerns in me, as a Packer fan. I am going to really think, as I post, really try to spark a discussion that may lead us to a conclusion/conclusions that are concrete.

I recommend. As to where are we now. Please let's not scapegoat on the Mike Sherman Era. Let's get past that. He was fired last January. It's TIME - to at least begin " the stop on scapegoating, on Mike Sherman ".

It's time to fully focus on the current GM Ted Thompson, and HC Mike Mccarthy and his Coaching staff.

We need to arrive at the TRUTH, and we need to deal with just that.

I merely suggest, that as members in OUR HOME, that we not go all political, or all arrogant, or all I'm right and that poster is "out to lunch" wrong.

Everyone here has insight. Everyone here has the strength in him/her to be forthright, regarding where OUR Packer fan fortunes/future lies.

There is a poster here that wants to paint me as an emotional person. I assure all of you. Yes, I have emotiions but I am certainly passionate and try very hard to use my humble gifts as a person, to be a positively contributing Packer fan member here.

I never want to be more or less that the rest of the membership here but we need a focus as a board.

I never would expect we ALL act as clones, but I have faith that we can discern the TRUTH, and from that, aim to get real as Packer fans - that deserve the best for OUR team.

That means another Super Bowl - ASAP. It at least means, that OUR team has all the tools in place "in reality" to be competitive.

I'll open with this.

That is far far away with regards to what we presently have in place as a possible final roster to start OUR season. With the level of competence and their real ability to lead us (OUR VET's) and now given the fact they will soon be retired. How soon will it really be before we can compete after the Vet's?

Take Favre and Green and Franks and Charles Woodson's (potential) and Al Harris's (potential) and Henderson - now add Driver and Clifton and Tauscher and . . .

Take them all away and what have we got?

As I'm seeing it. . .

We have Ted Thompson and what Ted Thompson reallly brings (with all he is) to OUR table as Packer fans. Ted Thompson is in charge fully today, for OUR fortunes as Packer fans.

What happens in 2006, will in a large part and reality (I sence) determine the the outcome of the fine careers and contributions of Brett Favre, Ahman Green and William Henderson. These outstanding Green Bay Packers, along with Bubba Franks and Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher and Donald Driver are the cornerstone of OUR Offense.

HOW WELL - has PACKER GM - TED THOMPSON, PROTECTED THESE FINE PACKERS FOR 2006 ?

I'll start . . . HE HASN'T !!! SORRY - for shouting.



I feel strongly.

That to support OUR team "in it's reality", it's incumbant on us as a board - as Packer fans, to try to determine what is really at issue in the Green Bay Packer's Organization.

THE GREEN BAY PACKERS !!!

[GBRulz]

I wonder if TT has a clause in his contract that says HE gets a bonus for every dollar of cap money he has left over. I can't think of another reason why the guy is such a tightwad.

I know this debate will go on and on (and it has) but we could have found a way to resign Whale. especially with the cap room TT knew we had the following year.

TT was a week late to FA this year. Wasn't he on vacation or out of town for something? There were minimal FA's this year to go around because of the unusual cap increase. He should have been more agressive, but being agressive is not his style....unless we're talking about driving his Escalade and nearing running into people as he pulls out of the player parking lot... :mad:

[mraynrand]

..........

Geez Woody, I thought you were going to recommend we storm HQ with ultimatums for TT.

TT has a completely different philosophy than Sherman had. Sherman was all "win now with Favre." I wonder if Sherman would have changed that philosophy after Favre retired and would have started building from the ground up like TT?

That being said, TT could have placed a priority on protecting Favre - but he didn't. I have no problem believing that he has a philosophy and is sticking to it - I think he expected his plan to sufficiently protect Favre, but it's not working yet (some bad luck is involved of course, with injuries). With TT's philosophy, you have to have the long view on things and perhaps Favre will take a beating in the short term. But here's the thing - Favre is not TT's guy. A-rod is. No matter how much TT likes Favre, he blew a #1 pick on A-rod, and he's going to see him start. I wouldn't be surprised if TT is secretly hoping Favre leaves sooner than later, because TT likes his guys and I bet he doesn't like Favre's gunslinger mentality and, if the Packers continue to lose for the next year or so, he certainly won't like Favre's "chuck it up, it doesn't matter" philosophy.

Bottom line: I suspect that TT and Favre essentially have "philosophical differences" and that Favre's end in GB will not be happy as a result.

[mraynrand]

unless we're talking about driving his Escalade

Michele-Is it a WHITE Escalade? Is it pimped out like the players' trucks? I have this theory.....

[woodbuck27]

I wonder if TT has a clause in his contract that says HE gets a bonus for every dollar of cap money he has left over. I can't think of another reason why the guy is such a tightwad.

I know this debate will go on and on (and it has) but we could have found a way to resign Whale. especially with the cap room TT knew we had the following year.

TT was a week late to FA this year. Wasn't he on vacation or out of town for something? There were minimal FA's this year to go around because of the unusual cap increase. He should have been more agressive, but being agressive is not his style....unless we're talking about driving his Escalade and nearing running into people as he pulls out of the player parking lot... :mad:

My question GBRulz and ALL.

What is Ted Thompson's agenda - his FOCUS?

Does he really believe, he did enough for OUR team's fortunes in 2006 to be successful - competitive? He had in my view a fine draft. After that - what did he do to really give us success in 2006?

In my view he failed in OUR off season, to secure the help we as fans deserved, for OUR Offense to be successful; and because of that, like "a house of cards" it will in all likelihood - collapse.

I forecast that - the stress of adversity will take a heavy toll on OUR team.

If it's otherwise, then I'll be just one of the most surprised Packer fans.

How could Ted Thompson leave us in the mess we find OURSELVES in, as loyal Packer fans?

In terms of the work he didn't do to re-tool OUR OL. To build back OUR Offense? Ted Thompson's way will determine OUR overall success as a team in the NFL this season.

Why did Ted Thompson leave us so naked on offense, so vulnerable to a collapse as the season progress's?

Ted Thompson has left way too much up to - "well - if this happens or that we'll be fine". He's either out to lunch, or plain n' simple - incompetent to be OUR GM. I am no longer going to attribute Ted thompson's ways to a learning curve as he came to us highly recommended.

Yet, based on what Packer fans? He had success as a smart man in the process of drafting players with the Seattle Seahawks and he worked with Ron Wolf prior to that for us.

or

He has to be the luckiest GM in the NFL. I am so proud to be a member here and see the optimism of I'd have to say the majority of Packer fans here. That sustains me to support them when push comes to shove as this is primarily a Packer fan Forum.

GPRulz.this post is difficult. I have to deal with me. NOT always easy.

I have to deal with loyalty issues regarding OUR vet's that are OUR leaders and will give OUR HC Mke Mccarthy any real chance of success.

I now take you all to back to the start of 2005. We are about three games into the schedule and Mike Sherman called a spade a SPADE.

He said word's to this effect:

(and I paraphrase)

" I can only work with what is giving me ". . . . Mike Sherman

Often the most difficult thing to deal with is described "in TRUTH".

My name is Ed.

[GBRulz]

actually no, the only thing white is the drivers hair.... as the vehicle is dark blue. It's probably the only Escalade in the players lot that ISN'T pimped out !!

i suppose that ruins your theory?

[mraynrand]

actually no, the only thing white is the drivers hair.... as the vehicle is dark blue. It's probably the only Escalade in the players lot that ISN'T pimped out !!

i suppose that ruins your theory?


Yep, for the moment, the theory is on hold. My OTHER theory, that TT really doesn't like Favre, and wants A-rod in there ASAP, is as strong as ever.

[vince]

Here's my take on Ted Thompson...

Ted has a vision. That vision is comprised of a goal and a number of strategies he employs to achieve the goal.

He believes his responsibility is NOT to put a "competitive" team on the field in 2006 - as you state, Woody. If you believe that's his responsibility, then it's obvious to see why you won't think he's doing a good job. Your goal for him is different than his goal for himself. The strategies a GM would use to achieve the goal of "putting the best team possible on the field this year" are different than the strategies Ted Thompson is using to achieve his goal.

Ted Thompson is working toward the vision of reestablishing the Green Bay Packers as a DYNASTY. This means that he wants to build an organization and team that will win year after year after year after year - not just in 2006.

The way Ted is going about achieving his goal is by:

1. Objectively evaluating the current state of the franchise at all times.
2. Establish and maintain the cap management to act in ways consistent with your other strategies.
3. Offenses score points. Defenses win championships.
4. Build your foundation through the draft.
5. Invest in quality free agents, preferably young ones, at the time when it makes sense (See strategy 1).

When Ted Thompson took over, I believe he saw a team that wasn't very good, with some exceptions. He saw a porous defense. He saw a great quarterback, and he saw serious cap problems. The Packers had significant dead cap space on their books, still accounting significant dollars for the likes of Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt. He saw an aging team that, if not for the greatness of Brett Favre, had far less talent and a far worse cap situation than in the past. This team was not a dynasty, they were a team that was eeking into the playoffs because of a weak division and Brett Favre.

In order to build a dynasty, he had to take control of the salary cap situation. And he did that.

In order to build a dynasty, he has to build a formidable defense. He's doing that. Hawk, Hodge, Collins, Pickett, Kampman, Manual, and possibly Blackmon add a rock solid foundation to the defense. A couple more young pieces to this puzzle and we're set for a decade.

In order to build a dynasy, he has to rebuild his offense. The players he drafted on offense will be strong contributors for years to come. Will they learn a lot - through making mistakes - this year? I'd bet that will be the case. But I believe Jennings, Spitz, Colledge, and maybe even Moll, will be good. I see them as very capable of growing into stalwart members of the offense for years to come.

Obviously, there are some more pieces needed on offense. For the future, I think he needs to get a stud running back, a pass-catching TE, and another stud receiver, and a shut-down Tackle. On offense, we'll see about Ahman for 2006 (I think he's still got enough left), but Ahman isn't getting any younger.

Given the current state of the franchise, going out and overpaying for free agents just doesn't make sense. If you do that, you will end up overpaying for players who are typically on their last chance to cash in with a big contract, and often only have a couple productive years left before their performance declines significantly. For what? To get the Packers from 4-12 to 8-8? Maybe even eke into the playoffs, only to get beat in the first round- and find yourself in cap hell once again?

To build a dynasty, you have to understand the state of your team, and get your targeted free agents when your FOUNDATION is together and young, and you are perhaps a team that is one or two players away from Super Bowl contention. The Packers are not there yet.

Next year at this time? Perhaps.

I see a bright future for the Packers. It just will most likely take another year for the youngsters to gain experience and for a few additional pieces to come together to see it blossom.

I happen to agree wholeheartedly with Thompson's approach. I want to see the Packers build a dynasty, rather than a team that sneaks into the playoffs, only to get blown out by the NFL's elite each year.

I hope Brett sticks around another year to help make it happen.

[b bulldog]

You can blame TT for the young line but remember that bein g hit alot doesn't mean you need to throw 30 picks, David Carr!

[woodbuck27]

..........

Geez Woody, I thought you were going to recommend we storm HQ with ultimatums for TT.

TT has a completely different philosophy than Sherman had. Sherman was all "win now with Favre." I wonder if Sherman would have changed that philosophy after Favre retired and would have started building from the ground up like TT?

That being said, TT could have placed a priority on protecting Favre - but he didn't. I have no problem believing that he has a philosophy and is sticking to it - I think he expected his plan to sufficiently protect Favre, but it's not working yet (some bad luck is involved of course, with injuries). With TT's philosophy, you have to have the long view on things and perhaps Favre will take a beating in the short term. But here's the thing - Favre is not TT's guy. A-rod is. No matter how much TT likes Favre, he blew a #1 pick on A-rod, and he's going to see him start. I wouldn't be surprised if TT is secretly hoping Favre leaves sooner than later, because TT likes his guys and I bet he doesn't like Favre's gunslinger mentality and, if the Packers continue to lose for the next year or so, he certainly won't like Favre's "chuck it up, it doesn't matter" philosophy.

Bottom line: I suspect that TT and Favre essentially have "philosophical differences" and that Favre's end in GB will not be happy as a result.

I certainly respect your honest forthrightness mraynrand.

Ted Thompson is trying to kill Brett Favre.

Now can we discuss the suggestion you make at the top of your post, mmmmm. :evil:

Sincerely.I hate what may well happen to OUR Vets.Green and Favre mraynrand. It doesn't seem possible that they've been placed in harms way.

It sucks !! It really bothers me to worry about these GREAT Packers.

DAM !!!!!!

[4and12to12and4]

Very good post, Vince. Your points seem valid, and believable. If anyone here thinks that having Wahle here last Saturday would've somehow changed our blocking woes need to go to a book store and find some good reading on Football 101. It has been stated, restated, and restated that EVRYONE blocking Saturday FAILED. Not just the guards, hell, not especially the guards. Could TT have kept Wahle? Possibly. Would it have meant a whole hell of a lot last week. Ask Tauscher and Clifton. And Bubba. And Henderson. And Wells. And Davenport. And ...

[4and12to12and4]

Packers: Moll's the key to Plan B
Written by Bob McGinn - Milwaukee Journal Sentinal
Friday, 18 August 2006

Green Bay - Tony Moll's performance in this exhibition game and perhaps the next won't define his career. It could, however, go a long way toward defining the Green Bay Packers' season.

If Moll fails as the latest candidate to replace Marco Rivera at right guard, general manager Ted Thompson will be just about out of options. Thompson abhors trading his precious draft choices. Still, he might have to deal for a veteran guard in order to head off what has the potential to be sustained weakness in the middle of the offensive line.


"I don't think we're desperate," the 22-year-old Moll said Thursday. "Other guys can easily do it, too. Will Whitticker. Daryn (Colledge). Jason Spitz."Thompson thought that, too, when he elected not to bring back either Mike Wahle or Rivera after the 2004 season. Many have been tried at guard in the last 12 months (Adrian Klemm, Whitticker, Scott Wells, Grey Ruegamer, Matt O'Dwyer, Atlas Herrion, Spitz, Colledge and Junius Coston), and everyone except Spitz has failed.

Moll, the fifth-round draft choice from Nevada, has been one of the more pleasant surprises of training camp. Nevertheless, his performance is far better than his perspective. Finding competent guards has been anything but easy for the Packers.

Under Thompson, the Packers keep trying to wish their way into a solution at guard. One collegiate tackle, Colledge, couldn't make the transition to left guard and was benched Monday in favor of Moll, another collegiate tackle who appears more gung-ho but no more capable, at least on paper. Spitz now starts at left guard after having been the right guard.

"It's the second game of my career and my second season of playing offensive line," Moll said. "The chance to be starting at right guard for the Green Bay Packers, it's unbelievable."

Coach Mike McCarthy doesn't want a repeat of last year, when the Packers didn't settle on a pair of starting guards until Sept. 5, six days before the opener. Undoubtedly his preference would be for the Spitz-Moll pairing to click so well Saturday night against Atlanta that it would remain intact entering the regular season.

"Maybe that's the best rotation right now," Thompson said. "Maybe that changes in 10 weeks. Maybe it changes next year. We're just trying to get the best combination for now."

Moll, a live wire from Reno, Nev., comes across as anything but awe-struck about his startling change in fortune.

"I'm going to have as much fun as I can and try to kick some butt," he said. "I'm relentless, one thing that sold these coaches to draft me. I'm not a cheap-shot thing but I'm going to be looking for those extra punches when guys are backing off. I'm going to get on my toes and go after them. I'm not going to give them that extra chance to take an extra breath."
The chances of Moll and Spitz, but particularly Moll, lining up against the murderer's row of defensive tackles inhabiting the NFC North and providing effective play at guard would seem slim.

Just before the start of training camp, offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski declared that Moll "was a tackle all the way. It will be awhile for him to get on the field. That's OK."

Joe Philbin, who coaches the offensive line, also had high hopes for Moll but said there were absolutely no plans to try him at guard.

Moll was a tight end and defensive end in high school and a tight end during his first four years at Nevada. Moved to weak-side tackle in January 2005, he ate and lifted until his weight shot up from 250 to 300 pounds in eight months.

Expecting to enter the league as a free agent, Moll is convinced that the Packers drafted him because Sammy Seale, their West Coast scout, once told him how much his play intrigued him.

"It's a big deal," Moll said. "I'd love to have this position and keep the starting job. I will try my hardest trying to keep it."

But if he doesn't succeed, Moll brims with confidence based on his three-week performance at right tackle.

"For some reason, if I'm not able to do it, I'm not going to let it affect me," he said. "Because I know I can play tackle. I have such a bright future here."

Moll left Green Bay in June weighing 308 but has trimmed down to about 295. Under the tutelage of strength coach Rock Gullickson, Moll says he has "drastically" improved his strength. He bench-pressed 225 pounds a meager 18 times last winter; he estimated his reps now would be more than 25.

So far, at least, Moll appears better able to translate his strength and competitiveness to the field than Colledge. He's athletic, fit, bright-eyed and eager.

"The easy part for me was we ran the same kind of run scheme at Nevada," he said. "I came into minicamps already knowing all the rules and how to run-block. Now moving to tackle, I've had to change my stance and re-do everything."

Moll's pass protection in practice has been inconsistent, to say the least. But the staff took more than casual note when he went up a few times against multi-talented Shawne Merriman of San Diego on Saturday night and did OK.

"If I had known it was Shawne Merriman I would have been a little hesitant thinking he was going to bring some kind of move I've never seen before that's going to make me look like a little baby," Moll said. "But he wasn't able to do that."

It was a good start for Moll, enough to make him the nominal starter. With thousands of eyes watching at Lambeau Field, he'll seek to become the permanent one.

Just thought I'd post this article here. Seemed to fit.

[vince]

Thanks for that article 4&12-12&4.

As I stated earlier, I think Ted Thompson is putting the franchise on the right path, but I will also wholeheartedly agree with the detractors when they note his one (IMO) major error - not figuring out how to resign Mike Wahle. That one hurt.

[FavreChild]

I very much respect your detailed opinion, vince. I still hate TT, but I am happy for someone to change my mind. Having met the guy, I will never respect him (don't need to bash the guy, so I won't elaborate). But I sure hope he knows what he's doing and will be glad to give him his due credit *IF* that proves to be the case.

[Scott Campbell]

I guess I'm willing to blame Thompson for the play of the O-line tonight.

[the_idle_threat]

I also blame him for Greg Jennings' performance.

[woodbuck27]

Here's my take on Ted Thompson...

Ted has a vision. That vision is comprised of a goal and a number of strategies he employs to achieve the goal.

He believes his responsibility is NOT to put a "competitive" team on the field in 2006 - as you state, Woody. If you believe that's his responsibility, then it's obvious to see why you won't think he's doing a good job. Your goal for him is different than his goal for himself. The strategies a GM would use to achieve the goal of "putting the best team possible on the field this year" are different than the strategies Ted Thompson is using to achieve his goal.

Ted Thompson is working toward the vision of reestablishing the Green Bay Packers as a DYNASTY. This means that he wants to build an organization and team that will win year after year after year after year - not just in 2006.

The way Ted is going about achieving his goal is by:

1. Objectively evaluating the current state of the franchise at all times.
2. Establish and maintain the cap management to act in ways consistent with your other strategies.
3. Offenses score points. Defenses win championships.
4. Build your foundation through the draft.
5. Invest in quality free agents, preferably young ones, at the time when it makes sense (See strategy 1).

When Ted Thompson took over, I believe he saw a team that wasn't very good, with some exceptions. He saw a porous defense. He saw a great quarterback, and he saw serious cap problems. The Packers had significant dead cap space on their books, still accounting significant dollars for the likes of Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt. He saw an aging team that, if not for the greatness of Brett Favre, had far less talent and a far worse cap situation than in the past. This team was not a dynasty, they were a team that was eeking into the playoffs because of a weak division and Brett Favre.

In order to build a dynasty, he had to take control of the salary cap situation. And he did that.

In order to build a dynasty, he has to build a formidable defense. He's doing that. Hawk, Hodge, Collins, Pickett, Kampman, Manual, and possibly Blackmon add a rock solid foundation to the defense. A couple more young pieces to this puzzle and we're set for a decade.

In order to build a dynasy, he has to rebuild his offense. The players he drafted on offense will be strong contributors for years to come. Will they learn a lot - through making mistakes - this year? I'd bet that will be the case. But I believe Jennings, Spitz, Colledge, and maybe even Moll, will be good. I see them as very capable of growing into stalwart members of the offense for years to come.

Obviously, there are some more pieces needed on offense. For the future, I think he needs to get a stud running back, a pass-catching TE, and another stud receiver, and a shut-down Tackle. On offense, we'll see about Ahman for 2006 (I think he's still got enough left), but Ahman isn't getting any younger.

Given the current state of the franchise, going out and overpaying for free agents just doesn't make sense. If you do that, you will end up overpaying for players who are typically on their last chance to cash in with a big contract, and often only have a couple productive years left before their performance declines significantly. For what? To get the Packers from 4-12 to 8-8? Maybe even eke into the playoffs, only to get beat in the first round- and find yourself in cap hell once again?

To build a dynasty, you have to understand the state of your team, and get your targeted free agents when your FOUNDATION is together and young, and you are perhaps a team that is one or two players away from Super Bowl contention. The Packers are not there yet.

Next year at this time? Perhaps.

I see a bright future for the Packers. It just will most likely take another year for the youngsters to gain experience and for a few additional pieces to come together to see it blossom.

I happen to agree wholeheartedly with Thompson's approach. I want to see the Packers build a dynasty, rather than a team that sneaks into the playoffs, only to get blown out by the NFL's elite each year.

I hope Brett sticks around another year to help make it happen.

Vince I need time to concentrate on studying this post and Thank You. I'll respond ASAP. I just read it two minutes ago and it's now after Midnight in Montreal.

We had a wonderful win tonight. It was a WILD game . It was a preseason game as well, but thank goodness we didn't stink the house out in this one.

Tough week on the forum. Good tough.

Funny this talk.

" Ahhhh "the Falcons" threw it."

I don't think so.

GO PACKERS ! FAITH IN 2006 !!

[woodbuck27]

Thanks for that article 4&12-12&4.

As I stated earlier, I think Ted Thompson is putting the franchise on the right path, but I will also wholeheartedly agree with the detractors when they note his one (IMO) major error - not figuring out how to resign Mike Wahle. That one hurt.

OK I dug in and read your post again Vince.

It comes down to - patience Vs impatience.

It comes down to - painting the house or siding the house.

We can study theory models like my:

SOLID OL = Effective if capable QB + Enabled RB

Till the cows come in, and work off that theory - that it all falls in if the OL is weak.

Weak OL = WEAK TEAM = Bad record = High Draft Pick

In the NFL weak OL = weakening "O" = gradualy weakened "D" due to Time Clock Imbalance.

WE can be concerned as to weak OL = injuries to QB and/or RB.That brings up depth on the team by position questions.

In my needs to protect the likes of Favre and Green - as I'm just an insignificant emotional fan, all wrappped up in my emotional fan reaction. I forget nor I really care about 3-5 years from now.

I'm the Brat fan and I must be the RAT fan.

I want Favre and Green to go out on top and happy with the team they have contributed so much to.

I'm an idealist and they (Favre and Green) are not now / not ever and therefore expendable now or in the near future any way it transpires.

Injury or retirement "it don't matter to Ted" reminds me of that song. . . " it don't matter to me" So if they, either/or fall to serious injury. So what . For Favre it's serious money in the bank - TED's BANK. Green is now relatively cheap as he's sort of a re-tread anyway - RIGHT TED ??

JAYSUS !!!!!

Favre and Green are not a part of the future plan to win, and win and WIN !!!Win a Super Bowl. So Favre and Green do not = Super Bowl, because it's not in the PLAN.

What plan?

Ted's PLAN, and if you want to win now, then don't try to discover Ted's PLAN.

I do see your theory Vince. I think.

Ted Thompson is working off the . . . get more players with real talents, that can be developed in time, and plug the holes but BUILD on YOUTH, and LOWER Cost FA's, and only trade when the player available - can impact tomorrow probably, not necessarily today.

Fans that want to win must suffer through any number of seasons of head scratching BS, to reap the Final Glory as presented by TED !!

It's a cruel World that Ted Thompson spins.

TED's TERRIBLE TIDY WORLD.

TED's WORLD. Cruel for the Vet's.

They merely play now - play and buy time for the talented youth to hone their skill set, based on a pediction of their upside.

I guess to like it. One has to mentally accept it. Smarten up and set any emotion aside.

NOT A PROBLEM. . . .

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FOR OUR FUTURE !!!

Waaaaaaaiiiittt !!

Nawwww! ! I want it all, or most of it for Favre and Green and "the Vet's. I'm not going to get it all but for one thing. . . "in faith".

I believe the EVIL TED's WORLD can be fooled by GREATNESS and LEADERSHIP.

I certainly don't want Favre ending his career with a serious injury. The OL better do great in school, otherwise don't screw around.

GET A TUDOR.

I'm the REBEL - "the Outlaw Rat".

I'm anti-establishment. I want to have fun every day, not save and save up, for a huge party once every 6 months with people you hardly ever see in between.

My name is Ed.

[Tarlam!]

"In all, Favre completed 16 of 22 passes for 134 yards and two touchdowns. His passer rating was 118.4."



'Nuff SAID! :cool:

[woodbuck27]

"In all, Favre completed 16 of 22 passes for 134 yards and two touchdowns. His passer rating was 118.4."

'Nuff SAID! :cool:

Yup. Good night for the team. WILD !! :mrgreen:

PACKERS ! FAITH !!

[Tarlam!]

'buck, there's this really neat concept that a lot of humans subscribe to as being incredibly valuable. I wanted to share it with you, 'cause, even though you are the most "experienced" fan posting, you clearly have never heard of it!

'buck, there's this great thing called SLEEP. Go google that term.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[vince]

Woody said:

Favre and Green are not a part of the future plan to win, and win and WIN !!!Win a Super Bowl. So Favre and Green do not = Super Bowl, because it's not in the PLAN.

Unfortunately, this past offseason, IMO, the Packers were at a point where there are/were just too many holes and question marks on both sides of the football to go out and overpay for free agents. It would be potentially foolish to think they could make a serious run at a Championship - in 2006... Would one or two of the free agent signings this past season made them better? Undoubtedly, but there's a good time to take risks with big contracts, and there's a bad time to take risks with big contracts.

Fortunately, because we didn't go out and overspend this past offseason, next year, we'll be in an equally good cap situation, and we can see how the team gels this year and determine if we're in position to make a SERIOUS RUN AT A TITLE potentially from a position of strength, rather than weakness - as we were this past offseason.

I think Favre could be a significant part of the plan, if he can keep himself in great shape physically. IMO, he's very close to being as good as he's ever been. It's just a question of supporting cast...

I'm not so sure about Ahman, just because of the physical punishment that runners of his style and caliber take over the years, and because his game is a speed game, and his legs simply aren't getting any younger. At a minimum, I think we need to start (after this year) phasing Ahman into more of a situational role and look hard for a stud that transition into being the man for years to come. In looking at next year's free agent lists, I think that guy is going to have to come from the draft...

Woody, I don't think that the Packers are far off... Sure, they could be 6-10 this year, but recent NFL history is LITTERED with stories of teams that (seemingly) came out of "nowhere" to win Championships. I really believe that 2007 will be the year of "rebirth."

For this year, I am very excited about the progress that we can make. My attitude is to watch the games, of course passionately pull for the Pack, and see how the team comes together.

The "conventional wisdom" says this team isn't very good. Obviously, there will be a number of new contributors this year, and with that will come mistakes and growing pains, but I see a vastly better team this year than last on both sides of the football. I see a team that appears to be better coached, at least offensively, and I see some playmakers on the defense.

I'm going to revel in the growth and "surprises" that this year will bring, and look boldly toward the future. That's just where we're at right now.

[vince]

Woody said:


Fans that want to win must suffer through any number of seasons of head scratching BS, to reap the Final Glory as presented by TED !!

It's a cruel World that Ted Thompson spins.

TED's TERRIBLE TIDY WORLD.

TED's WORLD. Cruel for the Vet's.

TED's WORLD is cruel for the vets - ONLY WHEN THE TEAM ISN"T VERY GOOD.

Next year, we may sign some people and go to the promised land. We'll certainly have the cap space to do it - if it makes sense...


Woody said:


It comes down to - patience Vs impatience.

The way I see it, that's close, but I think it's SLIGHTLY different. I think it comes down to short-term vs. long-term, and being objective about your current situation.

A short-term orientation will inevitably lead to long-term pain. But THAT COULD BE OK, under the right circumstances. If you are on the cusp of competing for a championship, take a short-term orientation and make decisions that will benefit you now (but probably hurt later).

[woodbuck27]

'buck, there's this really neat concept that a lot of humans subscribe to as being incredibly valuable. I wanted to share it with you, 'cause, even though you are the most "experienced" fan posting, you clearly have never heard of it!

'buck, there's this great thing called SLEEP. Go google that term.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

STRAIGHT UP !! Tarlam.

I'm waisted today, and ready for an afternoon nap which I seldom enjoy.

Right On Tarlam. :mrgreen:

PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH !!

[woodbuck27]

Woody said:


Fans that want to win must suffer through any number of seasons of head scratching BS, to reap the Final Glory as presented by TED !!

It's a cruel World that Ted Thompson spins.

TED's TERRIBLE TIDY WORLD.

TED's WORLD. Cruel for the Vet's.

TED's WORLD is cruel for the vets - ONLY WHEN THE TEAM ISN"T VERY GOOD.

Next year, we may sign some people and go to the promised land. We'll certainly have the cap space to do it - if it makes sense...


Woody said:


It comes down to - patience Vs impatience.

The way I see it, that's close, but I think it's SLIGHTLY different. I think it comes down to short-term vs. long-term, and being objective about your current situation.

A short-term orientation will inevitably lead to long-term pain. But THAT COULD BE OK, under the right circumstances. If you are on the cusp of competing for a championship, take a short-term orientation and make decisions that will benefit you now (but probably hurt later).

Vince .

Your getting ready to write the book -

Understanding Packer GM Ted Thompson - a Packer fan perspective.

It'll sell. :mrgreen:

GO TED THOMPSON !! but. . . .DON'T KILL Ahman or Brett.

[Tarlam!]

Vince .

Understanding Packer GM Ted Thompson - a Packer fan perspective.

It'll sell.


BOMNF!!!!