Dynamic Players

[Smidgeon]

One thing I've been wondering a lot about lately and am hoping the Rats can explain/expound/soapbox/etc is regarding the players on the Packers who have the ability to play multiple positions well.

McCarthy's offense is predicated on the ability to play out of any formation. One year it was a reverse wishbone, another year it was a slew of five wides. Whatever he does, he finds ways to out-maneuver the defense just by having too many offenses for the defense to study.

Having all that as a background, he also prefers players who can start in one position and then switch to a completely different position as to throw off the defense. For example, Finley can start inline and get a linebacker who's not quite as good at covering and then motion out wide.

What I'm wondering is about all the other players who have been reported to have that ability (by reporters, Rats, whomever) but haven't had a full opportunity much:

Randall Cobb: It looks like this will be the year where he becomes the "something of everything" player, so no need to go into this one.

John Kuhn: We've seen him sharing lead back roles, but a fullback running the ball isn't exactly uncommon.

Jermichael Finley: Probably the best example of having multiple positions, he exemplifies the advantage of mismatches.

Various TEs: Start inline and motion to the FB spot. It isn't much, but it's still something.

But what about the ones that seem untapped?

James Starks: I remember someone somewhere saying that Starks had near-WR hands and splitting him out wide wouldn't just be a gimmick. I haven't seen any of that yet, but I'm still curious about the possibility as it seems like it'd be a significant advantage to get a run defending LB on the field only to make him cover someone like a receiver.

DJ Williams: I keep hearing about his "H-Back" potential, but all I'm getting out of reports is his ability to catch the ball as a receiving TE. First, I'm not sure what "H-Back potential" means, but it implies to me that it's significantly different from TE. How would that create mismatches?

Andrew Quarless: He was supposed to be a catching TE in college, but was primarily a blocker last year. He's no Finley, but isn't he supposed to be just as multi-dimensional? I think someone was saying how he actually measured better at the combine than Finley (which I'm not questioning). When will that athleticism be tapped?

Are there any other players I've missed?
Is Finley so effective in his multidimensional role that splitting Starks wide or splitting other TEs wide with Finley or using DJ Williams as an H-Back don't add any extra benefit?

It's a topic that's been a lot of interest to me. I hope there's some Rat insight to post so I can learn more.

[RashanGary]

DJ Williams has a body type somewhere between a full back and a TE. But he's very fast and has great hands. To me, I'd rather see him on the field between the 20s than Kuhn if he can be a decent blocker. He makes for a tougher matchup. Teams don't know if they should cover him with a CB/Safety or play the run with a linebacker. He's fast and he has great hands. He's going to be a handful.

Nelson is versatile. One of the best blocking WR's in the game. Finley is versatile, one of the best pass catching TE's in the game, and he can block. You get Nelson, Finley and Williams on the field, and you have 3 guys who can block or catch. Toss in a RB who can run or catch and Greg Jennings who's such a complete pass catcher, it doesn't matter if he's a great blocker, and you have a pretty unpredictable group.

Starks, Finley, Williams, Nelson, Jennings. . . . . To me, that's about as unpredictable as it gets. Finley can block inline or be in the slot, or be out wide. Williams can be inline or in the backfield as a blocker (that's projecting, but he looks like the type to be able to do it.) Starks can run or catch. Run right, behind Bulaga and Sitton and you're guaranteed to get a good block out of Nelson. He's also a great pass catcher. No safety in the league can ignore Jennings, so he's drawing attention. If Williams is the guy I think he is, I could see a lot of this package in 2012.

[RashanGary]

Oh, and just for shits and giggles, take Starks out of that group. Put Cobb there. Now you have a ton of speed on the field. Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Williams, Finley. All of these guys can stretch the field. Make Cobb the running back, and depending on matchup move him around. Fuck you, Starks. This is my new group.


I don't even know how you defend this. You have 4 clear WR type pass cathers on the field, and another TE in Williams who's fast, fast, fast with great hands. You almost have to go dime. Then you bring Cobb in the backfield, Williams in that H-back spot, slide Finley inline and you're putting big blockers on little guys all the way around. If the defense decides not to match up for the pass, spread it out. Get Finley and Williams on LB's.

I'm expecting big things from Williams this year. I love those unpredictable packages. With all the guys we have that can do multiple things well, and now having Sitton and Bulaga (both studs) on the right side. . . . . We can do just about anything.

[Brandon494]

Williams has always reminded me of Chris Cooley since we drafted him, hopefully he'll play like him in the future for us.

[RashanGary]

Has a little Keith Jackson in him too. Size, speed, hands. . . . .

He looks in great shape too. I really think he's going to be a weapon for us. It's on thing to have a guy like James Jones or Donald Driver on the field. It's nice. But when you have a guy who's just as fast, but 30 pounds heavier and can block. . . . . . It opens up a few more options, namely the run and the play action.

[Fritz]

Finley can block. But he often seems not to want to.

[Smidgeon]

Oh, and just for shits and giggles, take Starks out of that group. Put Cobb there. Now you have a ton of speed on the field. Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Williams, Finley. All of these guys can stretch the field. Make Cobb the running back, and depending on matchup move him around. Fuck you, Starks. This is my new group.


I don't even know how you defend this. You have 4 clear WR type pass cathers on the field, and another TE in Williams who's fast, fast, fast with great hands. You almost have to go dime. Then you bring Cobb in the backfield, Williams in that H-back spot, slide Finley inline and you're putting big blockers on little guys all the way around. If the defense decides not to match up for the pass, spread it out. Get Finley and Williams on LB's.

I'm expecting big things from Williams this year. I love those unpredictable packages. With all the guys we have that can do multiple things well, and now having Sitton and Bulaga (both studs) on the right side. . . . . We can do just about anything.

That's the kind of thing that I wonder why we haven't seen more of. If the defense lines up in pass, run. If they line up in run, pass.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers have some pretty diverse players, Finely is an enlarged wide receiver, and the other tight ends have to be able to play on the wing, in the backfield, and have to run block along with pass blocking. At this point no other tight end out side of Finely have proven themselves a threat as a receiver, or a down field threat.

Cobb could be the x-factor this season. If the Packers want to get crazy, they should use him continually as a third down back. If he can pick up the blitz blocking scheme and demonstrate the toughness at picking up a blitzing linebacker then he could be a very dangerous weapon.

[Brandon494]

Cobb will have a Jordy Nelson type breakout year this season. I don't think he'll have the 15 TDs but with the depth we have at WR hes going to be matched up with the 3rd or 4th CB pretty much every time. He won't put up the same stats but he'll have a similar role as Wes Welker has on the Patriots.

[hoosier]

Cobb will have a Jordy Nelson type breakout year this season. I don't think he'll have the 15 TDs but with the depth we have at WR hes going to be matched up with the 3rd or 4th CB pretty much every time. He won't put up the same stats but he'll have a similar role as Wes Welker has on the Patriots.

Using him in a "Wes Welker" role probably means taking him off at least one of the return teams. I am not sure that would be a good idea, especially considering how many other weapons they have on offense. I predict Cobb stays as KR and PR, and that his role in the offense remains relatively limited in comparison with Jennings, Nelson and Finley.

[RashanGary]

The Packers have some pretty diverse players, Finely is an enlarged wide receiver, and the other tight ends have to be able to play on the wing, in the backfield, and have to run block along with pass blocking. At this point no other tight end out side of Finely have proven themselves a threat as a receiver, or a down field threat.

Cobb could be the x-factor this season. If the Packers want to get crazy, they should use him continually as a third down back. If he can pick up the blitz blocking scheme and demonstrate the toughness at picking up a blitzing linebacker then he could be a very dangerous weapon.

I'd like him as a 3rd down back, only if a guy like Kuhn, Williams, Crabtree or Taylor was also on the field. He's very small to pass protect. I'm just guessing, but I think he'd get his ass kicked. I'd prefer Williams if he can handle FB and TE responsibilities. Opens up more options, but Kuhn can pass pro with the best of them, and run it a little. You get the option to have a 2 man backfield and the option to go 4 wide. Either is very hard to defend. Too many ways to exploit the defense.

As long as your backfield consisted of a FB/TE type, there's a threat to run, an option to split him out, and a heck of a dynamic screen/roll out type player. Unless you're going all out, 5 wide, I think he needs someone in the backfield with him.

Oh, and Williams is lighting it up in camp. AR mentioned the young TE's (Taylor/Williams) need to pick up the subtleties of the offense. Maybe he's a year away, but he has both skill and talent. Considering we have a ton of weapons in their prime, maybe they prefer to go with the experience so AR can be more open to change presnap, and have more chemistry post-snap. There's no rush to get Williams on the field, but I really think he's a player. Loved his hands/YAC/Work ethic/Speed coming out.

[pbmax]

Finley can block. But he often seems not to want to.

He usually tries to block just enough. But if the play doesn't develop as drawn up, he often loses his guy early.

[RashanGary]

Cobb will have a Jordy Nelson type breakout year this season. I don't think he'll have the 15 TDs but with the depth we have at WR hes going to be matched up with the 3rd or 4th CB pretty much every time. He won't put up the same stats but he'll have a similar role as Wes Welker has on the Patriots.

Nope. Too many weapons. And last year JJ was stiff as heck. Couldn't turn back for those "going away passes." He worked on flexibility all offseason. Hasn't dropped passes. He's probably ahead of JJ, but maybe not. Also, he's NOT ahead of GJ, JN or JF. Just not enough balls. But he'll be a player for us. I'm a big Cobb fan!!

[swede]

He usually tries to block just enough. But if the play doesn't develop as drawn up, he often loses his guy early.

As a former guard I can attest to the unwillingness of linebackers to stand still long enough for me to do my blocking thing.

[Brandon494]

Nope. Too many weapons. And last year JJ was stiff as heck. Couldn't turn back for those "going away passes." He worked on flexibility all offseason. Hasn't dropped passes. He's probably ahead of JJ, but maybe not. Also, he's NOT ahead of GJ, JN or JF. Just not enough balls. But he'll be a player for us. I'm a big Cobb fan!!

Don't forget who our QB is, Rodgers isn't going to force the ball to any one reciever. Rodgers is always holding the ball til someone gets open and with those guys you mentioned above Cobb will be matched up against the 3rd and 4th CB. That means Cobb will get a lot of passes across the middle and pick up big years after the catch like Welker.

Also I've heard so far Nelson and Finley have NOT been having good camps while Cobb has been the most improved player on the offense. I called it when we drafted the guy, he's a future star in this league.

[Brandon494]

Using him in a "Wes Welker" role probably means taking him off at least one of the return teams. I am not sure that would be a good idea, especially considering how many other weapons they have on offense. I predict Cobb stays as KR and PR, and that his role in the offense remains relatively limited in comparison with Jennings, Nelson and Finley.

I'm not saying he's going to put up Welker type numbers, just that he's game is similar to Welker. Also no way is he taken off either return teams.

[Patler]

Don't forget who our QB is, Rodgers isn't going to force the ball to any one reciever. Rodgers is always holding the ball til someone gets open and with those guys you mentioned above Cobb will be matched up against the 3rd and 4th CB. That means Cobb will get a lot of passes across the middle and pick up big years after the catch like Welker.

Also I've heard so far Nelson and Finley have NOT been having good camps while Cobb has been the most improved player on the offense. I called it when we drafted the guy, he's a future star in this league.

I read another interesting component to the Cobb situation. One article said the Packers kept Smithson around last year because they think he could be just as effective at returns as Cobb, and it would free up Cobb for more dynamic use on offense. Smithson they believe has little use other than as a returner.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm shocked that Smithson has the slightest chance. I thought he looked awful last year. It shows you want I know.
:)

[Smidgeon]

I read another interesting component to the Cobb situation. One article said the Packers kept Smithson around last year because they think he could be just as effective at returns as Cobb, and it would free up Cobb for more dynamic use on offense. Smithson they believe has little use other than as a returner.

So Smithson makes it over Gurley and Borel and the pack keeps 6?

[Joemailman]

I'm shocked that Smithson has the slightest chance. I thought he looked awful last year. It shows you want I know.
:)

I'm with ya. To me he looked small, but slow. Great name though.

[RashanGary]

So Smithson makes it over Gurley and Borel and the pack keeps 6?

The press gazette guys say Borel is ahead of Gurley, according to Packer scouts. He's a very similar athlete to Randall Cobb. Cobb is a little quicker short area, but Borel has the same long speed, is a little taller and jumps a little better.

Rodgers said Gurley is a good redzone target, but said Borel sees the field through the QBs eyes. The Packers do a lot of pre-snap and post-snap adjustments based on the defense. Cobb has that knack. Jennings does. Nelson does. Sounds like Borel does too.

If Borel is a player, you have to let Driver go next year, and Jones the following year. I'm not prepared to lose Greg Jennings. He's on pace to break, possibly shatter all of the Packers receiving records. Heck, if he goes at his current pace, he'd have an outside shot at the HOF. I just want him to be a Packer for a long time.

Borel looks like a good fit to me. I haven't heard of him dropping the ball, so his hands must be good. According to Rodgers, he sees the game well. He's an athlete.

[Patler]

Personally, I thought Smithson looked bad last year too; and I thought it odd that they kept him the whole year on IR without an injury settlement release. Even if it was only because they couldn't reach an agreement with his agent, I thought he would be gone this year, but they brought him back to camp. They must have had a reason. He did lead the nation in punt return yards and average (19.1). He also averaged 24 on kick returns. Supposedly he was one of the more highly recruited undrafted FAs last year. We should know after a couple preseason games.

The Borel/Gurley competition will be interesting. If Gurley can continue blocking punts like he did last year, he will add something unique that they don't get from anyone else.

[pbmax]

Personally, I thought Smithson looked bad last year too; and I thought it odd that they kept him the whole year on IR without an injury settlement release. Even if it was only because they couldn't reach an agreement with his agent, I thought he would be gone this year, but they brought him back to camp. They must have had a reason. He did lead the nation in punt return yards and average (19.1). He also averaged 24 on kick returns. Supposedly he was one of the more highly recruited undrafted FAs last year. We should know after a couple preseason games.

The Borel/Gurley competition will be interesting. If Gurley can continue blocking punts like he did last year, he will add something unique that they don't get from anyone else.

Borel has had more plays that reporters and fans have noticed and Gurley has seemed to take a back seat at WR to him. But there hasn't been much coverage of their play on STs.

[smuggler]

I'd be okay with Cobb coming off the KR team. Yuck!

[Deputy Nutz]

I thought Smithson was banged up a little bit during training camp last year, he showed enough potential for the Packers to keep him around on the Practice squad, so I still don't think he makes the Packers roster, but I think he has enough talent to hang around the league for a couple more years. Gurley has developed into reliable redzone receiver, which could be extremely valuable with smaller receivers like Cobb, Jennings, and Driver, the Packers could use a taller receiver to pair with Jordy, and Finley inside the twenty.

Cobb isn't going to get more than 50 passes his way unless someone goes down. I think the Packers will give Driver every chance to stay on the field this year if he is producing. I think Jones is the one that gets bumped for Cobb.