Uh-oh. Early sign that Jennings won't be re-signed?

[Guiness]

There's an article on Pro Football talk saying Packers coaches think Jordy Nelson is 'elite'. Is this a sign that Jennings is expendable when he tries for his $10million pay day?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/08/packers-coaches-consider-jordy-nelson-an-elite-receiver/


Packers receiver Jordy Nelson had a career year in 2011, with 1,263 receiving yards and 15 touchdowns, but to hear the Packers’ coaches talk, that might become the new normal for Nelson.

Green Bay wide receivers coach Edgar Bennett says Nelson isn’t just a good receiver, he’s a great receiver. And he’s a receiver who has shown in training camp that he’s getting even better.

“This guy just continues to improve. He is an elite receiver,” Bennett told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “He has those three ‘S’ words: size strength and speed. This guy is a difference-maker. You know, it’s easy to say something like that. But when you watch the guy work and what he puts into it, then you can see it. Now we have to get to the games and let the games speak for themselves.”

Nelson doesn’t have the physical gifts of Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald, and he hasn’t had the production of Wes Welker or Victor Cruz, and it would be hard to place Nelson in the elite category of those receivers. Nelson seems more like a very good receiver in an offense that makes perfect use of his skills than an elite receiver who could put up big numbers in any offense.

But Green Bay’s coaching staff insists that Nelson is not just good but great.

“He’s been outstanding,” offensive coordinator Tom Clements said. “He’s a great player.”

If Nelson is as good as his coaches say he is, it would be interesting to hear them explain why he only caught two touchdown passes a year in each of his first three seasons in the Packers’ offense. But the coaching staff seems to expect a lot more 15-touchdown seasons from Nelson in the future.

[RashanGary]

There's an article on Pro Football talk saying Packers coaches think Jordy Nelson is 'elite'. Is this a sign that Jennings is expendable when he tries for his $10million pay day?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/08/packers-coaches-consider-jordy-nelson-an-elite-receiver/

Yep, I never wanted to lose Jennings, but Cobb is a very similar player for far less money. Nelson is a great player. Jones is having a great camp, limiting his drops. Borel, according to MM and AR really gets the offense and has added the muscle to hold up in the NFL. He's fast, smart, good hands, athletic. . .

Unfortunately, we don't have the money to keep everyone. Hawk and Jennings look like tough keeps. Matthews, Raji and Rodgers are must keeps. If it comes down to those 5, and 2 have to go, I think it's a no-brainer.

We have young, talented players behind Jennings and Hawk. That's the tough part about the salary cap, but it's just the way it is.

[Brandon494]

Yea but I read no where in that article how Nelson is better than Jennings. Jennings is the type of person who is not going to want a break the bank type contract, hes a team guy who loves playing in Green Bay. We do need to resign all those players Harrell mentioned above but I rather cut an aging guy like Woodson then to let Jennings walk. Woodson is making outrageous money right now, I believe close to 12M. You also have Driver's 2.5M, Pickets' 6M, Saturday 4M, and hopefully Hawk's 6M that will be off the books when its time to resign those players. Most importantly though is the fact that Jennings is already making 7M, I don't see why it would be so hard to pay him 2-3M more a season.

[RashanGary]

Yea but I read no where in that article how Nelson is better than Jennings. Jennings is the type of person who is not going to want a break the bank type contract, hes a team guy who loves playing in Green Bay. We do need to resign all those players Harrell mentioned above but I rather cut an aging guy like Woodson then to let Jennings walk. Woodson is making outrageous money right now, I believe close to 12M. You also have Driver's 2.5M, Pickets' 6M, Saturday 4M, and hopefully Hawk's 6M that will be off the books when its time to resign those players. Most importantly though is the fact that Jennings is already making 7M, I don't see why it would be so hard to pay him 2-3M more a season.

Woodson's salary drops off big time after this year. I have teh salary site bookmarked at home. I'll post it when I get home. It's something close to half of what he's making now.

That savings, the Hawk savings (potentially) and the Jennings savings (potentially) would all go a long way toward keeping our young superstars around. We keep getting good young players. Our window keeps getting bigger. We have to make tough choices along the way to a potential dynasty.

[Cleft Crusty]

All one had to do was to watch the Divisional loss to the Giants last year to see that Jennings - specifically his timing with Rodgers - is as valuable to the Packer offense as Harrison or Wayne were to Manning and the Colts at their peak. You don't mess with your best, most instinctive, natural passing connection/combination without dire consequences. At some point, Jennings will diminish significantly in skills and that's when you get rid of him, but not before. There is the possibility that Nelson or another receiver can be the Wayne to Jennings' Harrison, but that type of consistency at your top receiver position is not all that common (As common as expecting to replace a HOF QB with another HOFer -- ;) ). So a great deal of credit for the success of Rodgers-Jennings goes to Rodgers of course, but you have to be very cautious when you start thinking that your best combination is expendable for the 'savings' of a few million.

[Brandon494]

All one had to do was to watch the Divisional loss to the Giants last year to see that Jennings - specifically his timing with Rodgers - is as valuable to the Packer offense as Harrison or Wayne were to Manning and the Colts at their peak. You don't mess with your best, most instinctive, natural passing connection/combination without dire consequences. At some point, Jennings will diminish significantly in skills and that's when you get rid of him, but not before. There is the possibility that Nelson or another receiver can be the Wayne to Jennings' Harrison, but that type of consistency at your top receiver position is not all that common (As common as expecting to replace a HOF QB with another HOFer -- ;) ). So a great deal of credit for the success of Rodgers-Jennings goes to Rodgers of course, but you have to be very cautious when you start thinking that your best combination is expendable for the 'savings' of a few million.

Exactly and TT knows this, Jennings is not going anywhere.

[Patler]

Of course, the big one is Rodgers. Currently at just 8.5 million against the cap. That will likely double in the very near future, using up a lot of that extra cap room mentioned earlier. Many seem to think it will happen this year.

If Newhouse is starting at LT again, I have to believe they will sweeten his deal, too; maybe before the end of the year. Currently, just a half-million+ against the cap.

Combined, those two count about 9 million against the cap. That could easily become $20 million

[Lurker64]

Isn't the franchise number for a WR only about 2m above Jennings's current cap number? I would think that's a pretty easy call then.

[Patler]

Woodson's salary drops off big time after this year. I have teh salary site bookmarked at home. I'll post it when I get home. It's something close to half of what he's making now.

That savings, the Hawk savings (potentially) and the Jennings savings (potentially) would all go a long way toward keeping our young superstars around. We keep getting good young players. Our window keeps getting bigger. We have to make tough choices along the way to a potential dynasty.

Not sure Woodson drops off all that much. One site has him at $10 million cap hit in 2013 and 2014.
Interesting to see if he looks worth it this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jennings makes pretty good chink already. I know some people are up for more money, but other people are going to get erased from the books soon (Woodson, Driver, Hawk, Saturday). Anybody know if the salary cap is projected to go up?

[Joemailman]

Jennings makes pretty good chink already. I know some people are up for more money, but other people are going to get erased from the books soon (Woodson, Driver, Hawk, Saturday). Anybody know if the salary cap is projected to go up?

Murphy said recently it's going to be pretty level the next 2 years.

That said, TT is not going to let a great player still in his prime leave via free agency. He's tight-fisted when it comes to signing free agents so he doesn't have to do that.

I think Jennings gets extended before the regular season starts.

[Patler]

Tag # for WRs dropped from $11.4 to $9.4 this year as a result of the new formula. But that only buys you one year, and may not make either Jennings or the team very happy.

The new gold-standard for WRs is Calvin Johnson's gazillion dollar contract from the Lions(about 7 years/$140 million). I saw an article that said cutting through the crap and funny money at the end, it is really a 5 year contract for just under $80 million.

[Guiness]

Of course, the big one is Rodgers. Currently at just 8.5 million against the cap. That will likely double in the very near future, using up a lot of that extra cap room mentioned earlier. Many seem to think it will happen this year.

If Newhouse is starting at LT again, I have to believe they will sweeten his deal, too; maybe before the end of the year. Currently, just a half-million+ against the cap.

Combined, those two count about 9 million against the cap. That could easily become $20 million

If he has another season anywhere near what he just did, Rodgers is going to be $20 million himself. See: Manning, Peyton; Brees, Drew

[Guiness]

Woodson's salary drops off big time after this year. I have teh salary site bookmarked at home. I'll post it when I get home. It's something close to half of what he's making now.

That savings, the Hawk savings (potentially) and the Jennings savings (potentially) would all go a long way toward keeping our young superstars around. We keep getting good young players. Our window keeps getting bigger. We have to make tough choices along the way to a potential dynasty.

Yup, it goes down after this year. From Rotoworld:

Signed a five-year, $55 million contract. The deal included $21 million in advances and bonuses.
2011: $6.5 million (+ $2.05 million roster bonus + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2012: $6.5 million (+ $4 million roster bonus due in April + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses),
2013-2014: $6.5 million,
2015: Free Agent

According to that, his salary is $11.5million this year, but then $6.5million each of the next two. They detail $8million in bonuses, but say the deal included $21, not sure where the rest of that money is. Signing?

[Lurker64]

Tag # for WRs dropped from $11.4 to $9.4 this year as a result of the new formula. But that only buys you one year, and may not make either Jennings or the team very happy.

I think that "keeping Jennings for another year at about the same salary" is a sensible tactical move to take, since, if nothing else, it buys the team leverage in terms of working out an extension. So I do not think that this year would be Jennings last year as a Packer under any circumstances, but next year could conceivably be that year.

[Guiness]

Jenning's 4yr $27million deal sure looks like a bargain now that Fitz and Johnson have theirs!

[Tony Oday]

I would not want to sink $16 million into Jennings...$9 million at MOST, I do not know if Jennings is elite off of this team and I do not think Jordy is as good without Jennings.

[Lurker64]

I think if Jennings were 6-5 with 4.3 speed, there's a real chance the Packers would have to get close to $16m/year to keep him. But he's not, Jennings is 5-11 with 4.4 speed. He's among the best route-runners in the business, but 5-11 4.4 guys who can play football just aren't rare like 6-5 4.3 guys who can play football are. I do think that around $9-$10m/year would get it done with Jennings.

[MJZiggy]

Can't we have two good receivers without assuming that one will be dumped? Jordy can be good and we still have Jennings.

[Guiness]

Can't we have two good receivers without assuming that one will be dumped? Jordy can be good and we still have Jennings.

we can...if one of them doesn't cost us $15/mil or thereabouts to resign.

Not saying he'll get, or even want that. But I think he's going to be expensive.

[RashanGary]

With Woodson, next year and the year after. . . . The signing bonus will count against the cap, but we're paying that regardless.

The only question is, whether he's worth the 6.5 base he's getting. I think he will be.

[MadtownPacker]

Fuck that! You are talking about taking one of the smoothest gears out of the machine. Show him the money!!!

[gbgary]

Jennings is not going anywhere.

THIS (unless he becomes an injury issue). it's clear none of the other guys are even close to Jennings quality or there'd be lots of talk about it and he'd be taking playing time away from Jennings. as for jordy being elite, where's that table that shows his productivity compared to the rest of the league?

[mission]

Jennings will sign a reasonable deal. There was a Wilde blog post with a quote from Jennings joking around telling his agent like "yo, take whatever they give you" ... you can find it on his ESPNMilwaukee.com blog. No way they don't sign him for 8-10m.

[Joemailman]

I would not want to sink $16 million into Jennings...$9 million at MOST,I do not know if Jennings is elite off of this team and I do not think Jordy is as good without Jennings.

Jennings is absolutely elite. His numbers would be better on a team that didn't have so many other good weapons. In 2010, after Finley was injured, Jennings was as good as any receiver in the NFL. That said, it won't take 16 million a year to sign him. What the Lions gave Johnson was crazy.

[rbaloha1]

I think if Jennings were 6-5 with 4.3 speed, there's a real chance the Packers would have to get close to $16m/year to keep him. But he's not, Jennings is 5-11 with 4.4 speed. He's among the best route-runners in the business, but 5-11 4.4 guys who can play football just aren't rare like 6-5 4.3 guys who can play football are. I do think that around $9-$10m/year would get it done with Jennings.

Size is irrelevant. Jennings and Finley make Nelson better.

GJ can easily be franchised.

[Gunakor]

I don't see Greg Jennings as the diva WR out for the biggest deal possible. Winning seems to be his motivation. And the team he plays on is 29-7 over the last 2 seasons. He truly loves playing here. He obviously isn't going to find a more talented QB anywhere in the NFL to deliver accurate balls downfield for him to make plays on. I don't see him going anywhere, and I highly doubt TT would need to use a franchise tag on him to keep him here.

[Fritz]

Size is irrelevant. Jennings and Finley make Nelson better.

GJ can easily be franchised.

Size is irrelevant? Aloha, your girlfriend only said that to make you feel better.

[mraynrand]

I thought for sure this thread would be about Donald Driver by now.

[Joemailman]

I thought for sure this thread would be about Donald Driver by now.

Are you referring to the idea that since they've kept Driver around there's no way in hell they're letting Jennings get away?

[rbaloha1]

Size is irrelevant? Aloha, your girlfriend only said that to make you feel better.

Harsh but true.

[gbgary]

jennings getting the big helmet now.

[denverYooper]

jennings getting the big helmet now.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r4TBpaCZBR8/TeQjYl263uI/AAAAAAAALKE/H_fKLYHHdCo/s1600/lord_dark_helmet.jpg

GOOD!

[RashanGary]

jennings getting the big helmet now.


What's happening with Jennings helmet?

[mmmdk]

This is business; a lot of these posts are emotional and Clefty brown tongued. Jennings will only get what's he's worth with TT and GJ could walk due to that fact - but it isn't presently a problem, now is it!?

[Smidgeon]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r4TBpaCZBR8/TeQjYl263uI/AAAAAAAALKE/H_fKLYHHdCo/s1600/lord_dark_helmet.jpg

GOOD!

Just imagine offensive spearing with that thing. Those defenders will have to watch out.

[Pugger]

What's happening with Jennings helmet?

We gave him a helmet like Aaron's to help with concussions.

[pbmax]

We gave him a helmet like Aaron's to help with concussions.

Jennings is even goofier, which probably means safer. Though there is only so much the helmet can do. He selected over the offseason I think the article said, after trying out a bunch of models. Its Riddell's latest.

[Joemailman]

Jennings is even goofier, which probably means safer. Though there is only so much the helmet can do. He selected over the offseason I think the article said, after trying out a bunch of models. Its Riddell's latest.

http://www.paulhersey.com/images/09b_spiked_helmet_back.jpg

[MJZiggy]

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKxVgDf2DJTR4iH1YCKy92tkdlKL8lj g_Fho1JlMDcqc76OJAX

[Bretsky]

This is muck; we're keeping GJ around
Now onto the more important question

Fantasy Football

Jennings or Jordy ?

[imscott72]

This is muck; we're keeping GJ around
Now onto the more important question

Fantasy Football

Jennings or Jordy ?

Jordy..

[Brandon494]

Jodry, he the bigger target in the red zone and Jennings will be matched up against better CBs. Plus Jordy seems to be more durable.

[pbmax]

Jordy is not repeating those numbers again.

[Joemailman]

Jodry, he the bigger target in the red zone and Jennings will be matched up against better CBs. Plus Jordy seems to be more durable.

I wonder though if Jordy will start drawing more attention from safeties to take away those deep posts. If so, that could open some things up for Jennings. I might take Jennings in a PPR league, but otherwise I'd take Jordy because of TD's

[Brandon494]

Jordy is not repeating those numbers again.

That's for sure but I can still see him putting up 8-10 TDs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jordy is not repeating those numbers again.

He was the second highest rated WR last year behind Calvin Johnson in non-PPR leagues. His numbers (mainly TDs) will drop, but I don't think they'll drop as much as people think. He won't be as efficient (his efficiency numbers were epic and as good as you'll ever see), but I see him having more targets. I expect 1000 yards and 10 TDs and that puts him in the top 10 at WR for me. BTW, it's likely that a majority of the top 10 WRs numbers will drop. CJ probably won't get 16 TDs again. Welker and Cruz probably won't get 1500+ yards and 9 TDs again. I have my doubts about Fitzgerald repeating his numbers. Same with Steve Smith, Mike Wallace, and Vincent Jackson.

[Pugger]

What a delightful dilemma we are presenting for our opponents this coming year. Who in the hell do they double? Jordy? Jennings? Cobb? Finley? And then there's Benson back there looming to carry the rock or grab a pass out of the backfield. And even if they cover all of their bases there's Aaron running wild. This is gonna be fun! :-D

[Upnorth]

What a delightful dilemma we are presenting for our opponents this coming year. Who in the hell do they double? Jordy? Jennings? Cobb? Finley? And then there's Benson back there looming to carry the rock or grab a pass out of the backfield. And even if they cover all of their bases there's Aaron running wild. This is gonna be fun! :-D

So long as the Oline holds up look the hell out NFL! you aint seen nothin yet.:rock:

[RashanGary]

What a delightful dilemma we are presenting for our opponents this coming year. Who in the hell do they double? Jordy? Jennings? Cobb? Finley? And then there's Benson back there looming to carry the rock or grab a pass out of the backfield. And even if they cover all of their bases there's Aaron running wild. This is gonna be fun! :-D


Plus, there are 2-TE packages Clements has talked about. Williams has emerged as a pass catcher. He's much faster than Finley. He runs as well as James Jones. He's good after the catch. He can block.

You can go 4 wide with Finely and Williams inside. . . . Jennings and Nelson outside. You can move Williams into an offset FB-HB type position. Clements has talked about doing that with him, and they've done it in the games.


Run strengths of this group:

Williams and Finley are better blockers than just about any WR
Nelson one of the best blocking WR's in the game
You have three legitimate blockers and a legit RB (Benson)


Pass strengths of this group

Williams runs as fast as Jones and catches everything
Jennings and Nelson are a dominant 1-2 punch out wide
Finley is a heck of a weapon in the passing game
Benson keeps defenses honest


You can run a dozen good formations with this group. Williams can line up all over. Finley too. You can go heavy run or wide open pass. You'll probably see nickle against this group. In that case, you get a very fast player (williams) matched up on a LB. Very few teams have a LB who can run with a TE who runs 4.5. Vernon Davis runs a 4.4. Also, you can have three legitimate blockers combined with Benson.

Play action would be wide open with this group. Safeties will bite, opening up Jennings and Nelson wide, also opening up a lot of things down the seam. There are just so many things you can do with this group. Hell, you can sub Jennings for Kuhn or Crabtree and you're looking at a very big group, and also a group where every perimeter player is an excellent bocker and three of them can stretch the field.

I see this group as a huge big play group, and a group that can run the ball by teams going small.


Williams really brings something to thsi offense IMO. I love his addition and emergence. I'd almost go with this package as our base offense. It's just so versatile with teh run and pass. It's a great first down package.

[Upnorth]

I would love to see the packers having a dominate 2 TE system again, ahh the memories.
Is Williams that good though? You make him sound like a Finley who hasn't realized his potenial and is a better blocker.

[Smidgeon]

What a delightful dilemma we are presenting for our opponents this coming year. Who in the hell do they double? Jordy? Jennings? Cobb? Finley? And then there's Benson back there looming to carry the rock or grab a pass out of the backfield. And even if they cover all of their bases there's Aaron running wild. This is gonna be fun! :-D

I think I have to put down the Kool-Aid for a bit. I buy Jordy, Jennings, and Finley. Jordy and Jennings because they've produced consistently. Finley because he demands defenses to account for him (based on testimonies from other teams). But Cobb and Benson? As much as I'm totally buying the talent at this point, I don't think teams will worry about doubling Cobb until Cobb has a Jordy season. And Benson isn't exactly a receiving running back. And while he's talented, I want to see what he can do in a pass first offense before anointing him.

Regardless, the offense will still be quite good this year.

[RashanGary]

I would love to see the packers having a dominate 2 TE system again, ahh the memories.
Is Williams that good though? You make him sound like a Finley who hasn't realized his potenial and is a better blocker.


I really do think he's good. You watch him at Arkansas, and he was a hell of a weapon, especially after the catch. He's caught everything thrown to him in camp, it's been one of the stories. He's that 6'2" 250 lb FB/TE build. I'm guessing at his blocking, but they are playing him that way so he has to be at least OK at it. Receiving. He's always been a very talented pass catcher. Very fast, very reliable hands. Very hard worker.

[George Cumby]

I think I have to put down the Kool-Aid for a bit. I buy Jordy, Jennings, and Finley. Jordy and Jennings because they've produced consistently. Finley because he demands defenses to account for him (based on testimonies from other teams). But Cobb and Benson? As much as I'm totally buying the talent at this point, I don't think teams will worry about doubling Cobb until Cobb has a Jordy season. And Benson isn't exactly a receiving running back. And while he's talented, I want to see what he can do in a pass first offense before anointing him.

Regardless, the offense will still be quite good this year.

But if Cobb continues the standard improvement arc and lines up in the slot against the opponents 3rd best CB, that's a match-up I really like.

And with a legitimate ground threat, the D has to pick their poison. Stack the box against Benson, get tore up on the edges, go to zone, open up running lanes.

Agreed that CB isn't a great recieving threat.

[Smidgeon]

But if Cobb continues the standard improvement arc and lines up in the slot against the opponents 3rd best CB, that's a match-up I really like.

And with a legitimate ground threat, the D has to pick their poison. Stack the box against Benson, get tore up on the edges, go to zone, open up running lanes.

Agreed that CB isn't a great recieving threat.

Oh, I absolutely like Cobb against the 3rd CB. I think that's a gimme often. But going against the 3rd CB means he necessarily isn't being doubled, the contention I was making.

There's a lot of talent here, but I think the defenses will choose to make Cobb beat them every time if doubling him means letting Finley or Jennings run on single coverage.

[Smeefers]

Jordy or Jennings? I'd Take Finely to have a break out year. Dude is going to be a touchdown machine.

[George Cumby]

Oh, I absolutely like Cobb against the 3rd CB. I think that's a gimme often. But going against the 3rd CB means he necessarily isn't being doubled, the contention I was making.

There's a lot of talent here, but I think the defenses will choose to make Cobb beat them every time if doubling him means letting Finley or Jennings run on single coverage.

Okay, that makes sense.

[George Cumby]

Jordy or Jennings? I'd Take Finely to have a break out year. Dude is going to be a touchdown machine.

I hope you are right, but color me skeptical about further development on JMike's part........