Perry...Wothy...JS...McGinn....Needs Improvement

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rookie-chargers-defenders-outplayed-packers-perry-worthy-956ein2-165882096.html

[smuggler]

Yeah, Bob McGinn needs improvement. Ingram looked awesome, but he was playing against Herb Taylor. Perry looked pretty good against Jeromy Clary, SD's starting tackle.

[wist43]

I only skimmed thru the game, but what stood out to me most was the disaster we have at both OT spots. They were nothing short of awful.

I liked Taylor's feet, positioning, and technique in general, but he has exactly 0 horsepower. I think he would be a keeper for the practice squad and give him a year in an NFL strength program, but as of now?? if he's on the field, Rodgers is a dead man.

Datko was much worse - based on that performance, I don't see how he can even have a shot to make the team. He was slow footed, couldn't redirect, and was, like Taylor, severely underpowered.

Ted's going to have to do something to get some servicable T's in here, or Rodgers is going to end up on IR.

[pbmax]

Bob is better at this than the rest. He acknowledges the uneven quality of competition nominally (notice when Reyes came into the game) but the declares that if you had to choose based on one game, the Packers have busted.

As for Tackles wist, the Pack signed some guy named Wells to help EDS backup at Guard and Center, which is likely a sign that Lang would move to left tackle in another emergency. And Sherrod, if he can come back before camp ends, will the be swing tackle as well as behind Bulaga. The Packers don't need to make another move and the primary backups won't be Taylor and Datko. But two guys do need to get healthy.

[Patler]

I only skimmed thru the game, but what stood out to me most was the disaster we have at both OT spots. They were nothing short of awful.

I liked Taylor's feet, positioning, and technique in general, but he has exactly 0 horsepower. I think he would be a keeper for the practice squad and give him a year in an NFL strength program, but as of now?? if he's on the field, Rodgers is a dead man.

Datko was much worse - based on that performance, I don't see how he can even have a shot to make the team. He was slow footed, couldn't redirect, and was, like Taylor, severely underpowered.

Ted's going to have to do something to get some servicable T's in here, or Rodgers is going to end up on IR.

Herb Taylor was drafted in 2007, and has been bouncing around the league ever since. A little late for practice squad development with him.

[Joemailman]

Bob is better at this than the rest. He acknowledges the uneven quality of competition nominally (notice when Reyes came into the game) but the declares that if you had to choose based on one game, the Packers have busted.

McGinn's article may not have been wrong, but it was irrelevant. Who chooses between 2 guys based on their first preseason game? I like the fact that McGinn is not a homer, but sometimes his attempts to prove that point make me roll my eyes. This was one of those times.

As for Datko, he had some reps with the 1's last night at LT, and had some decent moments. Datko played LT in college, and a lot of his struggles in camp had been at RT. Looked to me like he was having a hard time making the adjustment with footwork, leaving him flat-footed. I'm hoping MM will let him concentrate for now on the position he knows. It may not be a good time for experiments since he might need to actually play this year.

[wist43]

Herb Taylor was drafted in 2007, and has been bouncing around the league ever since. A little late for practice squad development with him.

okay... I didnt know much about him. If that's the case, then he's a no-hoper too.

We're in serious trouble at T.

[wist43]

Bob is better at this than the rest. He acknowledges the uneven quality of competition nominally (notice when Reyes came into the game) but the declares that if you had to choose based on one game, the Packers have busted.

As for Tackles wist, the Pack signed some guy named Wells to help EDS backup at Guard and Center, which is likely a sign that Lang would move to left tackle in another emergency. And Sherrod, if he can come back before camp ends, will the be swing tackle as well as behind Bulaga. The Packers don't need to make another move and the primary backups won't be Taylor and Datko. But two guys do need to get healthy.

I don't expect we'll be getting any more help - TT may have invested some high picks in the OL, but he and McCarthy have always like to play musical chairs with the OL. As a result, I think it's fair to say the OL thru TT/M3's tenure has been dysfunctional. They've tighted it up the last couple of years, but a leopard doesn't change his spots - usually.

Sherrod being a bust really hurts... I have no hope he'll be a player.

[denverYooper]

Yeah, it's pretty terrible to have only 4 pro-bowl-caliber linemen.

[Patler]

okay... I didnt know much about him. If that's the case, then he's a no-hoper too.

We're in serious trouble at T.

I agree.

Newhouse - still not back at practice, making this already a more significant concussion situation than many are. While I am OK with Newhouse, a strong TC would have only helped. He is losing valuable reps, and the coaches have said time and time again that he is a player who learns greatly from actual experience.

Sherrod - I'm with you in your pessimism. I was hugely disappointed with his camp last year, and nothing more was asked of him than had been asked of Bulaga the year before. Whereas Bulaga seemed on the verge of beating out Colledge at LG before an injury took him out of the running, then later stepped in adequately at RT with no practice time there, Sherrod never performed at LG, then seemed lost even at both tackles when moved back there. He needed an off season of work to have a chance of being adequate as a stop-gap backup, and it looks like he will get nothing. I wonder if he will be ready even for week 1.

Taylor - I was hoping might show something, but instead Thursday night showed why he has never played anywhere in 5 years of NFL experience.

Datko - I'm not ready to give up on. He has a lot of rust to shake off, as well as adapting to the NFL and position changes. But they can't really expect to rely on him this season.

I sure hope the new guy, Wells, still has something left. He has lots of starting experience, mostly at guard, but some at tackle. He and EDS will give them options, but it is likely to be musical chairs if a starting tackle is injured, with Lang moving to one of the tackle spots.

[Joemailman]

Newhouse was on the field in uniform last night, but not in helmet or pads. Couldn't see if he took part in walk-throughs. At any rate, good chance he's getting close to being back.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb449/route25/007.jpg

[pittstang5]

Crazy as this might sound, but I'd actually like to see Datko at LT and see the new guy, Wells, or Taylor at RT for the second string O-line. What is it going to hurt? We already know how bad Taylor is at LT, Datko can't be much worse.

I really don't think Wells was brought in to play LT if some in here were thinking that.

[smuggler]

Newhouse will come back and Sherrod will get healthy. Then we'll be okay. Just leave a TE in to block on either side if a starter goes down.

[Patler]

Crazy as this might sound, but I'd actually like to see Datko at LT and see the new guy, Wells, or Taylor at RT for the second string O-line. What is it going to hurt? We already know how bad Taylor is at LT, Datko can't be much worse.

I really don't think Wells was brought in to play LT if some in here were thinking that.

No, probably not LT for Wells, but he has started at RT some, and a lot at guard. So they would have options to put either Lang or Bulaga at LT if they have to.


Apparently, Datko is starting to show up a little, too. They gave him reps at LT, splitting the No.1 offense snaps with Taylor, who had taken all of them after Newhouse went out. They said Datko had his best showing yet in the one-on-one drills, beating both Neal and Wynn. He started out 3-5 in the drill, but has gone 12-8 since then.

[pbmax]

I am not concerned about Sherrod based on Bulaga's prior performance. Forgetting for a moment that it can take even a high draft pick up to three years to be ready, Bulaga was, as a pro prospect, someone that scouts pegged as an All-Pro if a team would be willing to move him to guard. He was also viewed as an excellent candidate for RT. He has spent minimal time at what might be his weakest position of the three: LT.

Sherrod, from my memory, was not highly regarded at Guard (save for one scout who thought he would need to be at Guard because off defects he detected) and was regarded as a LT only, with RT being unlikely fit. Spending time in camp at Guard and RT was not the best way to showcase his talents. He also competed against Lang at guard, not Colledge. I can't come up with a metaphor to accurately describe the benefit of being compared, esp. in Green Bay, to Colledge instead of Lang.

Sherrod looked better in games versus Washington and KC. My only concern with him is health.

A week for a concussion is pretty standard, but there is no doubt he could use the reps. I agree Datko is going to feel more at home on the Left and reporters have noted his improvement has been pretty steady since started off like catastrophe.

[pbmax]

No, probably not LT for Wells, but he has started at RT some, and a lot at guard. So they would have options to put either Lang or Bulaga at LT if they have to.


Apparently, Datko is starting to show up a little, too. They gave him reps at LT, splitting the No.1 offense snaps with Taylor, who had taken all of them after Newhouse went out. They said Datko had his best showing yet in the one-on-one drills, beating both Neal and Wynn. He started out 3-5 in the drill, but has gone 12-8 since then.

I think Wells is to help depth on the interior and provide a way to let Lang play LT if it becomes necessary due to Newhouse/Sherrod unavailability.

[Patler]

I really don't think Wells was brought in to play LT if some in here were thinking that.


No, probably not LT for Wells, but he has started at RT some, and a lot at guard. So they would have options to put either Lang or Bulaga at LT if they have to.



...and then I read this: !! :D:D


• Recently signed free agent offensive lineman Reggie Wells was not in pads but took some snaps at left tackle during the jog-through period.

[pbmax]

...and then I read this: !! :D:D

Datko is now first team LT. Worthy and Ryan Taylor return from injury to practice. Daniels is on field for two days in a row.

Can free weights be blamed here? I think so.

[Patler]

A week for a concussion is pretty standard, but there is no doubt he could use the reps. I agree Datko is going to feel more at home on the Left and reporters have noted his improvement has been pretty steady since started off like catastrophe.

Ya, I know the week for concussions is standard, but he is now a week+ and apparently not yet cleared. With the game on Thursday again this week, I had hoped that he would be back at practice when they got back from SD, since his injury was a week-ago on Friday. He didn't practice yesterday and is still out today. I don't know if he has any concussion history, but a lot of "1st timers" don't even miss a game, being cleared a day or two before, but this being preseason I wasn't concerned that he did miss the game. But still not practicing puts this into another level of significance, unless the Packers have just chosen to give him extra time out of an abundance of caution. That might be the case, because I thing Jennings also is not practicing.

[Patler]

Datko is now first team LT. Worthy and Ryan Taylor return from injury to practice. Daniels is on field for two days in a row.

Can free weights be blamed here? I think so.

Taylor will be looking for work soon, I suspect.

[pbmax]

Brad Jones is back as well. Still 19 not practicing including Finley.

[Patler]

Brad Jones is back as well. Still 19 not practicing including Finley.

Probably another guy who will be looking for work soon, along with Zombo. Neither seems to be healthy for more than a week at a time. LB cutdowns will be interesting this year.

[MJZiggy]

Ya, I know the week for concussions is standard, but he is now a week+ and apparently not yet cleared. With the game on Thursday again this week, I had hoped that he would be back at practice when they got back from SD, since his injury was a week-ago on Friday. He didn't practice yesterday and is still out today. I don't know if he has any concussion history, but a lot of "1st timers" don't even miss a game, being cleared a day or two before, but this being preseason I wasn't concerned that he did miss the game. But still not practicing puts this into another level of significance, unless the Packers have just chosen to give him extra time out of an abundance of caution. That might be the case, because I thing Jennings also is not practicing.

I think the week would apply during the season. It's preseason and M3 has a history of being cautious and not rushing his people back from injuries in the preseason. I see this more as precautionary then cause for alarm.

[rbaloha1]

BS article.

Both Charger players were drafted earlier than the Packer picks. Is BM suggesting that TT should have traded up to get these guys based on a pre season game? Expect Perry and Worthy to start and have a positive impact.

Datko improved as the game progressed. Maybe sticks.

Sherrod is a tackle not a guard. Displayed great feet and nice recovery. Long arms also help. Expect Sherrod to eventually become another Clifton.

[Lurker64]

I only skimmed thru the game, but what stood out to me most was the disaster we have at both OT spots. They were nothing short of awful.

You probably shouldn't say "both OT spots" since that implies we have a problem at right tackle. We do not, there are few right tackles in this league better than Bulaga.

What's actually going on here is "Our #3 and #4 left tackles are kinda terrible"... which is predictable, since I think that most teams don't have an excessive amount of depth at that position. The solution to the left tackle problem is "Newhouse and/or Sherrod gets healthy" which is something we've got plenty of time for yet.

[Patler]

You probably shouldn't say "both OT spots" since that implies we have a problem at right tackle. We do not, there are few right tackles in this league better than Bulaga.

What's actually going on here is "Our #3 and #4 left tackles are kinda terrible"... which is predictable, since I think that most teams don't have an excessive amount of depth at that position. The solution to the left tackle problem is "Newhouse and/or Sherrod gets healthy" which is something we've got plenty of time for yet.

Are you certain that the "kinda terrible" doesn't also include the #2 left tackle, assuming you mean Sherrod?
Can Sherrod even be considered the #2 LT, or RT for that matter, at this point?

[Lurker64]

Are you certain that the "kinda terrible" doesn't also include the #2 left tackle, assuming you mean Sherrod?
Can Sherrod even be considered the #2 LT, or RT for that matter, at this point?

Well, the report on Sherrod's injury was that there was no nerve damage, so it's not career threatening (except insofar as it costs him development time), and if we can get back the player he was in that KC game before breaking his leg, he's absolutely a serviceable NFL OT.

[Smidgeon]

Probably another guy who will be looking for work soon, along with Zombo. Neither seems to be healthy for more than a week at a time. LB cutdowns will be interesting this year.

I guess I'm starting to get concerned about Finley being constantly nicked up too. I want to see him stay completely healthy for an entire season.

[pittstang5]

Ya, I know the week for concussions is standard, but he is now a week+ and apparently not yet cleared. With the game on Thursday again this week, I had hoped that he would be back at practice when they got back from SD, since his injury was a week-ago on Friday. He didn't practice yesterday and is still out today. I don't know if he has any concussion history, but a lot of "1st timers" don't even miss a game, being cleared a day or two before, but this being preseason I wasn't concerned that he did miss the game. But still not practicing puts this into another level of significance, unless the Packers have just chosen to give him extra time out of an abundance of caution. That might be the case, because I thing Jennings also is not practicing.

I, too, have been curious and concerned with the concussion issue, specifically Newhouse and Jennings. Found this article and McCarthy states why:
http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/page.php?page_id=278

You'll have to scroll down a little bit, I copied some of the article below



McCarthy was hopeful Sunday that starting left tackle Marshall Newhouse, who suffered a concussion in the Aug. 3 Family Night Scrimmage, would be cleared for action after sitting out nine days, including the preseason opener at San Diego. Pro Bowl wide receiver Greg Jennings, who also suffered a concussion that night and hasn’t practiced since, is further away from returning, according to McCarthy.

“Hopefully Marshall will be back soon; this testing has been a challenge. It’s a lot longer (post-concussion) process than prior years,” McCarthy said. “I think (Newhouse) may be back (Monday) or (Tuesday), and if he does, obviously he’ll be ready for Cleveland,” McCarthy said.

As for Jennings, “I’m shooting in the dark here. There’s testing that’s involved and it’s not going as well as I know Greg would like. Could be a couple days.”

Meanwhile, for the first time publicly, McCarthy acknowledged that would-be No. 3 tackle Derek Sherrod may not be cleared for practice before the end of training camp. That might mean he starts the season on the physically unable to perform list.

“(Sherrod) is going to be challenged to be back before the end of training camp, but then every week you hear and see how well they’re doing and you talk to the players,” McCarthy said. “That’s why – I don’t really get the opportunity to say, ‘He can be back two to six weeks,’ but sometimes that’s the way this medical thing goes. There’s a gray area when these guys are coming back off these long-term injuries.”

[RashanGary]

I, too, have been curious and concerned with the concussion issue, specifically Newhouse and Jennings. Found this article and McCarthy states why:
http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/page.php?page_id=278

You'll have to scroll down a little bit, I copied some of the article below


I like our young guys. The season will be the judge of who's the better team.

[Rutnstrut]

I only skimmed thru the game, but what stood out to me most was the disaster we have at both OT spots. They were nothing short of awful.

I liked Taylor's feet, positioning, and technique in general, but he has exactly 0 horsepower. I think he would be a keeper for the practice squad and give him a year in an NFL strength program, but as of now?? if he's on the field, Rodgers is a dead man.

Datko was much worse - based on that performance, I don't see how he can even have a shot to make the team. He was slow footed, couldn't redirect, and was, like Taylor, severely underpowered.

Ted's going to have to do something to get some servicable T's in here, or Rodgers is going to end up on IR.

TT has always ignored the O line, what makes you think he will do anything but piece work it now?

[mission]

TT has always ignored the O line, what makes you think he will do anything but piece work it now?

Especially when he drafted tackles in the first round two years in a row! #ttsux

[King Friday]

Well, the report on Sherrod's injury was that there was no nerve damage, so it's not career threatening (except insofar as it costs him development time), and if we can get back the player he was in that KC game before breaking his leg, he's absolutely a serviceable NFL OT.

I agree. He showed some promise. Comparing him to Bulaga seems unfair. Bulaga was considered more NFL ready anyway, then Sherrod had the additional setback that he couldn't develop at all last offseason due to the lockout. I'm willing to give the kid a chance, but it is unfortunate his injury is setting back his career now.

[Patler]

TT has always ignored the O line, what makes you think he will do anything but piece work it now?

Ya, using first round picks in consecutive years for O-linemen and getting another this year with his first significant FA signing in years; TT just doesn't give the position group any attention at all.

15 O-linemen drafted in 8 drafts.

[George Cumby]

Jesus Fucking Christ you buncha' pussies.

You sound like a bunch of old fishwives.

It's the first preseason game so relax and let's see how shit plays out.

[Lurker64]

I agree. He showed some promise. Comparing him to Bulaga seems unfair. Bulaga was considered more NFL ready anyway, then Sherrod had the additional setback that he couldn't develop at all last offseason due to the lockout. I'm willing to give the kid a chance, but it is unfortunate his injury is setting back his career now.

I think, Sherrod, assuming he's at least the player he was last year, would be, right now, a better option at OT than Herb Taylor or Ryan Datko. Which is what leads me to not want to panic about the trainwreck at LT against San Diego, since we were down our top two options. I think most teams down their top two options at LT would struggle.

[ThunderDan]

I think, Sherrod, assuming he's at least the player he was last year, would be, right now, a better option at OT than Herb Taylor or Ryan Datko. Which is what leads me to not want to panic about the trainwreck at LT against San Diego, since we were down our top two options. I think most teams down their top two options at LT would struggle.

No doubt. Could you ever imagine a team with two NFL calber starting LTs on the bench? Their phones would be ringing off the hook for trades.

[Zool]

Jesus Fucking Christ you buncha' pussies.

You sound like a bunch of old fishwives.

It's the first preseason game so relax and let's see how shit plays out.

But, George......How on earth and I going to know if the sky is falling if the collection of chicken littles doesn't tell me?

[Pugger]

I don't expect we'll be getting any more help - TT may have invested some high picks in the OL, but he and McCarthy have always like to play musical chairs with the OL. As a result, I think it's fair to say the OL thru TT/M3's tenure has been dysfunctional. They've tighted it up the last couple of years, but a leopard doesn't change his spots - usually.

Sherrod being a bust really hurts... I have no hope he'll be a player.

Based on what? He hasn't played more than a couple dozen snaps in a regular season game.

[Pugger]

Jesus Fucking Christ you buncha' pussies.

You sound like a bunch of old fishwives.

It's the first preseason game so relax and let's see how shit plays out.

No shit.

[mission]

BTW -- I feel A LOT differently about Perry now than I do before the preseason game. I can "visualize" his game now... and I like it! Bull rushin', edge-holdin' extraordinaire. I'm gonna say 8 sacks on the year if he stays healthy.

[KYPack]

BTW -- I feel A LOT differently about Perry now than I do before the preseason game. I can "visualize" his game now... and I like it! Bull rushin', edge-holdin' extraordinaire. I'm gonna say 8 sacks on the year if he stays healthy.

I'm with ya, Mish. The kid is a bull.

He's an adventure in cover, but 'ol Kevin will get him goin' eventually.

[George Cumby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU3oVgFPR5Y

First highlight is Perry bull-rushing and just plain over-powering the Chargers starting right tackle. Impressive.

[Fritz]

I blame Dave Redding for the entire mess.

[Pugger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU3oVgFPR5Y

First highlight is Perry bull-rushing and just plain over-powering the Chargers starting right tackle. Impressive.

Darn. This video was removed.

[Zool]

Darn. This video was removed.

NFL.com

Go to the Packers/Chargers game highlights. First play of the highlight is the Perry sack.

[Lurker64]

I'm with ya, Mish. The kid is a bull.

He's an adventure in cover, but 'ol Kevin will get him goin' eventually.

He still needs to internalize that the bull rush is going to be his bread and butter, and it's what he should go to by default. When he wants to, with a little work on pad level and hand placement he can jolt a lot of RTs off balance, at which point he's basically won. He needs to save the "beat his man around the edge" stuff as a counter, not as the default move.

But we knew that when we drafted him. The Perry over Upshaw decision hinged completely on TT's confidence in KG's ability to mold NP.

[run pMc]

I thought the article was a little unfair -- IIRC Ingram was talked about as a top 10 draft pick; nobody had Perry that high. Worthy vs. Reyes is a little different; but I think one game is waaaay to early to panic. McGinn's a good writer when he wants to be; this was one of those "throw a bone to the rabid masses to keep them around and frothing" articles.
I think Perry is still thinking vs. reacting. The more reps he gets the better. When he gets past that he'll be fine...certainly an upgrade over what we had last year.

I've heard mixed-to-mildly positive things about Worthy, but he was sort of invisible in the game. I hear Daniels is the more likely one to make noise....looking forward to seeing him play.

As for GB's LT depth, I think Sherrod is the backup. Lockout + injury really hurts his development -- 2 summers in a row! -- but he has the size & smarts. He needs to get/stay healthy and shake the rust off. Haven't seen him play much, but I think it's too early to say he won't pan out. (If anyone can tell me why he won't pan out, I'm listening.) Aside from seeing if he was one of the best 5 linemen, he had no business playing at LG in camp last year.

Datko is PS bound. He needs to trust his shoulder and get stronger. I'm reading he's more natural as a LT vs. RT, and too finesse to be a phone booth fightin' guard.
Taylor and Wells? No idea...probably camp guys to keep around in case Sherrod has any setbacks.

[Smidgeon]

I thought the article was a little unfair -- IIRC Ingram was talked about as a top 10 draft pick; nobody had Perry that high. Worthy vs. Reyes is a little different; but I think one game is waaaay to early to panic. McGinn's a good writer when he wants to be; this was one of those "throw a bone to the rabid masses to keep them around and frothing" articles.
I think Perry is still thinking vs. reacting. The more reps he gets the better. When he gets past that he'll be fine...certainly an upgrade over what we had last year.

I've heard mixed-to-mildly positive things about Worthy, but he was sort of invisible in the game. I hear Daniels is the more likely one to make noise....looking forward to seeing him play.

As for GB's LT depth, I think Sherrod is the backup. Lockout + injury really hurts his development -- 2 summers in a row! -- but he has the size & smarts. He needs to get/stay healthy and shake the rust off. Haven't seen him play much, but I think it's too early to say he won't pan out. (If anyone can tell me why he won't pan out, I'm listening.) Aside from seeing if he was one of the best 5 linemen, he had no business playing at LG in camp last year.

Datko is PS bound. He needs to trust his shoulder and get stronger. I'm reading he's more natural as a LT vs. RT, and too finesse to be a phone booth fightin' guard.
Taylor and Wells? No idea...probably camp guys to keep around in case Sherrod has any setbacks.

I think you're dead on here. Even looking at the sack highlight, there seemed to be some hesitation after he pushed the RT off him before he ran at the QB. I'm guessing he was so focused on his technique getting past the RT that he had to relocate the QB after he succeeded. I'm waiting for the day when he doesn't have to think through it and plays with no tentativity.

[rbaloha1]

Gee Whiz -- too much overanalyzing a sack against a first teamer. What would have happened if it was against a third teamer?

IMO NP's form dropping back into coverage is fine -- just needs reps. Again, NP is a double digit sacker in year one.

[RashanGary]

Gee Whiz -- too much overanalyzing a sack against a first teamer. What would have happened if it was against a third teamer?

IMO NP's form dropping back into coverage is fine -- just needs reps. Again, NP is a double digit sacker in year one.


He's powerful, quick off the ball, and can bend/turn the corner.

Screw it. We play so much nickle, and this year they say we'll be playing more dime. . . having Perry play a little more of a DE type role than OLB role will be fine by me. He doesn't have to be a complete OLB in year 1. He needs to be stout at the point and a beast rushing the passer. Those things, I think he definitely can do well.

I agree. 10 sacks looks very possible. He looks like a pass rusher to me.

[Joemailman]

The most important thing Perry does is he frees up Matthews to play the right side where he's coming at the QB's blind side, or to line up wherever the matchup is most favorable. If Perry gets double-digit sacks that's great, but it's not necessary for him to have a major impact on the defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Both Perry and Matthews come off the edge very well. Clay is the complete package though. Perry is a bit more of a one trick pony. He does have some power, but he mostly comes off the edge. He lacks Clay's agility, but it will help him a lot when he develops a couple of secondary moves. I see Perry coming off the edge a lot and Clay doing a lot of stunting inside. When Perry forces the QB to step up in the pocket (which he did quite a bit in the San Diego game), Clay will hopefully be there to clean it up.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

It may just be me, but Perry’s body does not look proportional. His upper body almost looks tiny compared to his lower body when I saw him in action against the Chargers. I’m not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Having a thick lower body probably provides him a lot of power on his bull rushes.

[Fritz]

Of course, if you're an offensive coordinator, you're going to draw up a boat load of plays designed to isolate Perry in coverage. Capers will have to use Perry wisely so the guy doesn't have to try to cover too much at first.

But it seems he has the skills. It's a matter of hard work and time.

[Pugger]

Both Perry and Matthews come off the edge very well. Clay is the complete package though. Perry is a bit more of a one trick pony. He does have some power, but he mostly comes off the edge. He lacks Clay's agility, but it will help him a lot when he develops a couple of secondary moves. I see Perry coming off the edge a lot and Clay doing a lot of stunting inside. When Perry forces the QB to step up in the pocket (which he did quite a bit in the San Diego game), Clay will hopefully be there to clean it up.

Wasn't Clay kinda like that as a rookie, a one trick pony who has developed into the player we see today? With Matthews as a mentor and Greene in his ear I think Perry can become something special too.

[Fritz]

So far it sounds like he's receptive to the coaching.

[smuggler]

Perry has a better bull move than Matthews. Clay is the best edge OLB in the game. Anytime Clay goes inside, he seems to get swallowed up. When it comes to stunting or weaving through the line for a sack, the guy my money is on is Bishop... sadly.

[wist43]

I agree that Worthy and Perry should be just fine - Perry has a steep learning curve, and will be a target for offensive coordinators early in the season; but in the larger picture, I think he'll be fine.

As for the OL... the starters are fine, even if Newhouse is a little shaky. But depth matters... if someone goes down, it's musical chairs all over again. I agree that Datko's struggles can be attributed to going from LT to RT, and of course he's a rookie; and while Taylor showed excellent technique, my 2 year old daughter could run him over. I love Sitton and Bulaga; I like Lang a lot... the rest is pretty shaky.

[smuggler]

Tommie Draheim stands a decent chance to make the roster because he can play all positions. EDS can play 3 positions.

[Fritz]

Is Draheim a rookie? What does anyone know about him?

[smuggler]

I'm pretty sure he was a UDFA or maybe he was on another team's PS last year.

[Joemailman]

Is Draheim a rookie? What does anyone know about him?

UDFA http://www.packers.com/team/roster/Tommie-Draheim/33c5fcec-4330-4e8d-a615-98ef930bc3bd

[RashanGary]

JS had some quotes from Capers today. Said Perry's best asset is his power. Said he can walk guys backwards. Capers said that's his starting point, and all of the other moves will come off of that. If a guy is gearing up for a bull rush, it's that much easier to go around him slip inside him.

I didn't expect that out of Perry. His sacks at USC came going around the edge. Since in GB, it's his power that is impressive. Bulaga is a damn good OT and Perry has knocked him right off his feet, left him laying there on the ground.

That's a good starting point. He's young, but like Matthews (of course different skill-sets - Power VS Agility) he is supremely gifted. Perry is going to be a monster.


Capers also said he is powerful setting the edge. You know what, fuck it. If he's not quite ready to be a full fledged OLB, dropping into coverage a lot, let him play up front a little more. Take a DL off the field and give Perry more of a DE/OLB hybrid type role where he's more of a run player and pass rusher and a little less coverage.

I didn't read anywhere that OLB's have to drop into coverage an equal amount of time. If you take a DL off the field, there will be another player behind him picking up that zone.

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/166323246.html


“To me that’s where it starts,” Capers said. “So many guys in college football now, they all want to get out there and run around. They’re 10 yards up the field running around the quarterback.

“If you can get a guy to take a guy and walk him back, it’s a starting point. He’ll learn the moves off of that. Once he gets the guy going back, now is when he makes the move. But so many of these guys come in and they want to use their athletic ability to run around it and they never threaten with power. You have to threaten with power and turn it into speed.”

[HarveyWallbangers]

I rewatched the last game, and Perry came around the corner A LOT. One of the few plays he didn't was the sack. He did flush the QB up into the pocket a lot though, so I'm hoping they'll have Matthews come inside to clean it up. He does have power, but he also has speed. He lacks agility though. He gets around the corner easily, but he seems to lack the agility to take full advantage. He gets around the edge and the stutter steps his way around.

[RashanGary]

His edge rush is going to be a counter move to his bull rush, so it will play a little faster than it actually is.

For now his pure explosiveness and power are going to give him a bull rush right out of the gate, and an edge rush. Agreed that he gets a little too deep on a lot of his edge rushs and needs to lumber a little bit coming back to the QB. He's a bigger guy. He needs to get a quick first step and leverage his way under the OT to take a shorter, and less rounded route to the QB. That leveraging is a technique thing. That's something he can bet better at over the next few weeks and into the season.

The play he got held on was a good edge rush. He pried his way under the shoulder of the OT from what I recall, took an efficient, short route to the QB (not too deep) and the OT had to grab onto him to keep him from putting a lick on Rivers. There was no lumbering back toward teh QB on that play. He came out of the corner squared straight up to lump Rivers in the torso.

I think he has both moves right now. They'll both continue to get better week by week. His explosiveness/power/speed combo are going to make him hard to block. And who's to say he can't develop another go-to inside shed move throughout the season. He's a 2 trick pony now, could be a 3 trick pony pretty easily. On his sack, if he had a better shed move, he wouldn't have had to back that OT up twice before he disengaged. He knocked that guy back a couple yards on his first punch (filthy power by the way, against a good RT.) There's no reason, with a guy that off balance, he can't shed inside and put a quicker lick on the QB. It was a nice sack, but he has the talent to get in that QB's lap instantly on that type of rush.

[pbmax]

Both Perry and Matthews come off the edge very well. Clay is the complete package though. Perry is a bit more of a one trick pony. He does have some power, but he mostly comes off the edge. He lacks Clay's agility, but it will help him a lot when he develops a couple of secondary moves. I see Perry coming off the edge a lot and Clay doing a lot of stunting inside. When Perry forces the QB to step up in the pocket (which he did quite a bit in the San Diego game), Clay will hopefully be there to clean it up.

One trick pony might explain him now. But I have also read that he seems more reluctant to string moves together than Matthews. That also plays into the motor question.

But as KYPack put it somewhere, if he can bull rush and then either take the corner or counter and get inside, good luck stopping him. he's huge and a load.

[HarveyWallbangers]

One trick pony might explain him now. But I have also read that he seems more reluctant to string moves together than Matthews. That also plays into the motor question.

But as KYPack put it somewhere, if he can bull rush and then either take the corner or counter and get inside, good luck stopping him. he's huge and a load.

I'd call him a two trick pony--which isn't bad at this point. He can get around the corner (although he lacks the agility to take maximum advantage) and he can bull rush. He needs to learn to use his hands better and needs to develop some type of spin move. If he can develop those two things, he's going to be a beast. He's about halfway there.

[KYPack]

I'd call him a two trick pony--which isn't bad at this point. He can get around the corner (although he lacks the agility to take maximum advantage) and he can bull rush. He needs to learn to use his hands better and needs to develop some type of spin move. If he can develop those two things, he's going to be a beast. He's about halfway there.

Two trick is about right, Harve.

He can pass rush, but needs to add a few more clubs to his bag to be a complete rusher.

In cover, he is real green. In Capers D, LB's have two types of coverage, pattern and match. Match is man to man. You get on your man and cover him. Pattern is covering a piece of turf, like you defend a zone in a zone D in basketball. Perry is learning pattern cover. When his assignment is cover, he peels back to his landmark and covers his area. He might be a good hand in match-up, but I can't say, I've never seen him do it.

He is trying to get with the program, but he is so green, it will be a real trip for awhile. This kid has a ton of potential, but he has a couple tons of learning ahead of him.

[Smidgeon]

I read an article way back when (might've been SI or ESPN) about how many tricks a sack pony needed to have to be successful. I think they looked at something like the top ten sack artists in NFL history, then dissected their individual bags of tricks.

A couple of them were successful because they knew and used every trick and technique and tool in the book. They knew how to string together moves and counters in unpredictable ways. Real technicians.

The next tier used three moves that they had perfected. They mastered them and switched up among them because they were so successful among the three.

The next tier used two moves. And those in the two move category were the exceptional talents. They used two moves to such utter effectiveness that in tandem they simply couldn't be stopped. These were the sack masters. And they were rare.

The final tier was one man. The Club. 'Nough Said.

But the point being, if Perry is going to be successful, he's most likely going to need more than two tricks in his back. He's going to need an arsenal. And he's going to need to be willing to string them together.

It remains to be seen if he can. I'm not saying he can or can't or will or won't. Just that to be successful, there are necessary elements to that.

[pbmax]

I read an article way back when (might've been SI or ESPN) about how many tricks a sack pony needed to have to be successful. I think they looked at something like the top ten sack artists in NFL history, then dissected their individual bags of tricks.

A couple of them were successful because they knew and used every trick and technique and tool in the book. They knew how to string together moves and counters in unpredictable ways. Real technicians.

The next tier used three moves that they had perfected. They mastered them and switched up among them because they were so successful among the three.

The next tier used two moves. And those in the two move category were the exceptional talents. They used two moves to such utter effectiveness that in tandem they simply couldn't be stopped. These were the sack masters. And they were rare.

The final tier was one man. The Club. 'Nough Said.

But the point being, if Perry is going to be successful, he's most likely going to need more than two tricks in his back. He's going to need an arsenal. And he's going to need to be willing to string them together.

It remains to be seen if he can. I'm not saying he can or can't or will or won't. Just that to be successful, there are necessary elements to that.

Any change you could get Google to cough up a link?

[Smidgeon]

Any change you could get Google to cough up a link?

Well, I finally found it after a couple hours of searching...but it was behind ESPN's pay wall (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=3290923). Luckily, ESPN mobile has it posted in its entirety (m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=3290923&lang=ES&wjb=) (and viewable on a computer).

Other articles I found while searching:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16159985
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1020060/index.htm
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-7738874

[Smidgeon]

Also, this bit from the ESPN article caught my eye and made me appreciate Kevin Greene as the OLB coach:

"On the other hand, today's 3-4 rush linebackers aren't quite as polished as their predecessors. Current defensive coaches would be wise to place a high emphasis on teaching these pass-rushers how to better utilize the many pass-rushing moves at their disposal."

[Lurker64]

I agree that Datko's struggles can be attributed to going from LT to RT, and of course he's a rookie

Datko's real struggles are the fact that his shoulder injury in college kept him out of the weight room. The kid really needs to get stronger in a big way. But he's got a mammoth frame, and he's got left tackle movement skills, and the technique is workable. A year in an NFL S&C program is going to help him more than most. That is, of course, assuming that the shoulder is 100%.

[rbaloha1]

Datko's real struggles are the fact that his shoulder injury in college kept him out of the weight room. The kid really needs to get stronger in a big way. But he's got a mammoth frame, and he's got left tackle movement skills, and the technique is workable. A year in an NFL S&C program is going to help him more than most. That is, of course, assuming that the shoulder is 100%.


Sounds right. Strength not feet are the issue. After a sluggish start it appears Datko is a keeper.

[Lurker64]

Sounds right. Strength not feet are the issue. After a sluggish start it appears Datko is a keeper.

That being said, flip-flopping from RT to LT is challenging. It was actually amazing that, as a rook, Bulaga did it so well. Most guys will struggle reversing the footwork on the fly. But that's not Datko's main issue. He's not a guy who can't afford to lose steps in pass pro, he's just playing catch out there since he doesn't have the core strength to do anything else.

[RashanGary]

I could see Perry doing the Bull rush, a modified corner/dip type move and an inside swim move coming off the initial punch from his bull rush. I could see him doing all three of those this year. He's a physical freak. The power opens up everything else.