Shawne Merriman!

[LegandofthePack15]

The guy has been released by the Bills. If he clears waiver, should the Pack sign him?

I think they should. Pack still have no bona fide pass rushing OLB other than Matthews. Merriman would provide depth.

[Zool]

Nope. Guy has been a shadow of his pre-steroid suspension self. He can't stay on the field. His bona fide pass rush days are far behind him.

[BobDobbs]

He's terrible. Erik Walden is way better than him. He's got 5 sacks in 4 years. Used to be an asshole that would terrorize quarterbacks, now he's just an asshole.

[Pugger]

He's terrible. Erik Walden is way better than him. He's got 5 sacks in 4 years. Used to be an asshole that would terrorize quarterbacks, now he's just an asshole.

:lol:

[red]

he's been terrible since he got busted for roids

its pretty clear to me that he was only ever good in the first place because he was on the juice

[Guiness]

No way anyone brings him into camp now, which would guarantee his salary for the season. He had a solid second chance with the Bills, and couldn't hang on. Anyone know how good the Bill's LB corps is? I assume he's done.

[Lurker64]

No. You don't really take a risk on a declining player when you don't have to.

[KYPack]

Yup.

I'm with the consenus.

Ol' Shawne is all played out.

He might get one shot with a team after week 1, but I doubt it.

[George Cumby]

Remember when people complained about TT picking Rodgers instead of Merriman? :-P

[rbaloha1]

Can someone who actually watched Merriman play recently provide an unbiased assessment.

[hoosier]

The unbiased assessment is that you don't need to have watched Merriman to know he is through. Getting released from Buffalo is all you need to know.

[Brandon494]

Yea hes just what we need! :eyes:

[LegandofthePack15]

Remember when people complained about TT picking Rodgers instead of Merriman? :-P

Merriman was picked 12th overall in 2005. Rodgers was 25th. Thompson didnt draft Rodgers over Merriman. However, it was reported that Thompson would've drafted Merriman or DeMarcus Ware if he could've traded up. Luckily Rodgers fell to the Pack.

Merriman is only 28. Given the bums playing OLB for the Pack, it wouldn't hurt to bring in Merriman for a look see or whatnot.

[ThunderDan]

Let's look at Merriman since his PED suspension.

2007 - 15 games, 68 tackles, 12.5 sacks
2008 - 1 game, 2 tackles
2009 - 14 games, 36 tackles, 4 sacks
2010 - 3 games, 6 tackles
2011 - 5 games, 9 tackles, 1 sack

Those last 4 years of performance scream sign him!

[Gunakor]

Given the bums playing OLB for the Pack, it wouldn't hurt to bring in Merriman for a look see or whatnot.

http://trojanempire.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/clay_matthews092610.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6WIHfIw342E/T6FREO07IqI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/85ru7uwaCbU/s1600/nick-perry.jpg


- The Bums playing OLB for the Pack.

[George Cumby]

Merriman was picked 12th overall in 2005. Rodgers was 25th. Thompson didnt draft Rodgers over Merriman. However, it was reported that Thompson would've drafted Merriman or DeMarcus Ware if he could've traded up. Luckily Rodgers fell to the Pack.

Merriman is only 28. Given the bums playing OLB for the Pack, it wouldn't hurt to bring in Merriman for a look see or whatnot.

You miss my point, which is perhaps due to my poor wording.

In the great fan tradition of deconstructing a draft before it's time, there were many, not necessarily on this Board, who bemoaned the fact that Merriman was such a great player and Rodgers such a bum. It wasn't that it would have been possible to draft Merriman, only that SD had him and we had this schlub who would never amount to much.

That being said, as our esteemed colleague said, BUFFALO cut him. Not someone we need to waste our time with.

[rbaloha1]

The unbiased assessment is that you don't need to have watched Merriman to know he is through. Getting released from Buffalo is all you need to know.

Are you saying all players that are cut are done? What about -- Howard Green, Tramon Williams, Bruce Wilkerson, Andre Rison, Cullen Jenkins, John Kuhn, etc.?

[Joemailman]

Merriman hasn't had a good season since 2007. He suffered a knee injury in 2008, and hasn't done much sense. It's likely over for him.

[LegandofthePack15]

Let's look at Merriman since his PED suspension.

2007 - 15 games, 68 tackles, 12.5 sacks
2008 - 1 game, 2 tackles
2009 - 14 games, 36 tackles, 4 sacks
2010 - 3 games, 6 tackles
2011 - 5 games, 9 tackles, 1 sack

Those last 4 years of performance scream sign him!

Matthews had something like 6 sacks last season. Stats don't always tell the whole story.

Merriman has been injury-prone but he's now healthy.

[rbaloha1]

Matthews had something like 6 sacks last season. Stats don't always tell the whole story.

Merriman has been injury-prone but he's now healthy.

Exactly. Matthews barely missed sacks last season by a nano second. Combined big plays were almost the same as rookie year.

[LegandofthePack15]

- The Bums playing OLB for the Pack.

I think I made it clear in the first post that Matthews is an exception. I'm talking about guys like Walden, Zombo, So'oto, etc. The Packers are one Matthews hamstring injury away from having virtually no pass rush.

Merriman, if he can stay healthy, knows how to rush the qb.

Perry is still unproven.

[LegandofthePack15]

You miss my point, which is perhaps due to my poor wording.

In the great fan tradition of deconstructing a draft before it's time, there were many, not necessarily on this Board, who bemoaned the fact that Merriman was such a great player and Rodgers such a bum. It wasn't that it would have been possible to draft Merriman, only that SD had him and we had this schlub who would never amount to much.

That being said, as our esteemed colleague said, BUFFALO cut him. Not someone we need to waste our time with.

I think Buffalo has reverted back by to the 4-3. Merriman playing in the 4-3 is like Aaron Kampman playing in the 3-4.

[LegandofthePack15]

Are you saying all players that are cut are done? What about -- Howard Green, Tramon Williams, Bruce Wilkerson, Andre Rison, Cullen Jenkins, John Kuhn, etc.?

Well said.

[Gunakor]

Merriman, if he can stay healthy, knows how to rush the qb.

Perry is still unproven.


No, Merriman is done. Finished. Washed up. That happened several years ago. He's yesterday's trash. Cannot rush the passer even when healthy. I'll take an unproven Perry over a proven failure like Merriman any day of the week. Twice on Sundays. Hell, I'll take my chances with Zombo and Jones backing up Matthews and Perry before I trust Merriman in any role. Why are we even talking about this?

[LegandofthePack15]

No, Merriman is done. Finished. Washed up. That happened several years ago. He's yesterday's trash. Cannot rush the passer even when healthy. I'll take an unproven Perry over a proven failure like Merriman any day of the week. Twice on Sundays. Hell, I'll take my chances with Zombo and Jones backing up Matthews and Perry before I trust Merriman in any role. Why are we even talking about this?

Why are we talking abouth this, you ask. See the Packers' pass rush (or lack of) last season.

Merriman would provide depth. No way he's a "proven failure." The guy depicted Lawrence Tayloresque pass rushing abilities earlier in his career. Granted, that was eons ago but the guy's still 28 and he's a proven pass rusher.

An average Merriman is still better than Zombo, Jones, Walden, So'oto and the such.

[Lurker64]

Has Merriman actually had an effective season since getting busted for juice? Methinks PEDs had more to do with his good seasons than "knowing how to rush the passer."

[LegandofthePack15]

Has Merriman actually had an effective season since getting busted for juice? Methinks PEDs had more to do with his good seasons than "knowing how to rush the passer."

As TunderDan posted, Marriman had 12.5 sacks in 2007, post-suspension. His stats dwindled due more to injuries than ineffective plays.

[Gunakor]

Why are we talking abouth this, you ask. See the Packers' pass rush (or lack of) last season.

I noticed. I also have been noticing a lack of pass rush from Shawn Merriman for what's going on a half decade now. I don't see how a guy with a combined 7 sacks over the last 5 seasons is any better than the guys on our roster right now. You're basing your judgement of Merriman on nostalgia. That stupid lights out dance he did a half decade ago. Brad Jones had as many sacks as Merriman in 2009 (in 6 fewer starts), both Walden and Zombo had more sacks than Merriman in 2010. Merriman's career is bust. It's over. He's absolute garbage now. I'll take my chances with Zombo and Walden and Jones.

[Patler]

Are you saying all players that are cut are done? What about -- Howard Green, Tramon Williams, Bruce Wilkerson, Andre Rison, Cullen Jenkins, John Kuhn, etc.?

I'm not sure your examples are very relevant.

There is a difference between the release of an aging veteran who is a former dominant player but has been ineffective for 4 years, and the release of a young player who has not yet emerged or proven himself (Williams, Kuhn, etc.)

The situation of Merriman being cut in the middle of training camp, two weeks before a cut down date, at a time when teams can carry 90 players, is very different than cutdowns to meet 53 man player limits before and during the season, particularly when there is a conflict of sorts between the player and team. (Green, Rison, etc.)

There is a huge difference between a player a team gives up on in the middle of camp, and one who becomes a free agent because his contract has expired (Jenkins, Wilkerson, etc.)

Everything about the Merriman situation screams that his career is done. Injuries have made his last four years virtually nonexistent. His performance has been minimal even when he has played. The Bills need players, yet they gave up on him well in advance of the first cut down date.

To bring Merriman in, someone needs to be released. Frankly, I am more interested in seeing what the young unknowns have than looking at Merriman.

[Guiness]

He's young at 28. I think he lands somewhere at, or near, the vet minimum. The Bills had to cut him, for some reason they gave him a big contract (scheduled to make $4million this year) when it didn't seem anyone else was even going to sign him! There's also the problem that the Bills went to a 4-3 this year, leaving him without a position, they were trying to make a DE out of him.

He was hurt the last two years, but if he passes a physical he should land somewhere. Don't see it being here, but who knows. As far as seeing what other players have instead of looking at him, he's got a lot of potential if he can stay healthy

[Fritz]

He's young at 28. I think he lands somewhere at, or near, the vet minimum. The Bills had to cut him, for some reason they gave him a big contract (scheduled to make $4million this year) when it didn't seem anyone else was even going to sign him! There's also the problem that the Bills went to a 4-3 this year, leaving him without a position, they were trying to make a DE out of him.

He was hurt the last two years, but if he passes a physical he should land somewhere. Don't see it being here, but who knows. As far as seeing what other players have instead of looking at him, he's got a lot of potential if he can stay healthy

Shawn e Merriman couldn't sack a bag of groceries. He couldn't sack my nuts. He couldn't
couldn't play the sacksaphone.

[Iron Mike]

Shawn e Merriman couldn't sack a bag of groceries. He couldn't sack my nuts. He couldn't
couldn't play the sacksaphone.

The only sack he'll get close to is hauling sacks of dirt at Home Depot....

[Iron Mike]

8 more posts and I'm at 10,000

You could probably knock those out in about 10 minutes...

[ThunderDan]

I'm sorry, a guy who is off PEDS (so he doesn't have the strength he use to) and has knee and leg issues (no longer has the speed he once had) is not worth bringing in.

[Zool]

2 page thread on a guy who's been less than pedestrian in the last 4 years. The guy will cost $4mil if someone brings him in before the first game of the season. He's probably not getting even a sniff until after that.

[rbaloha1]

I'm not sure your examples are very relevant.

There is a difference between the release of an aging veteran who is a former dominant player but has been ineffective for 4 years, and the release of a young player who has not yet emerged or proven himself (Williams, Kuhn, etc.)

The situation of Merriman being cut in the middle of training camp, two weeks before a cut down date, at a time when teams can carry 90 players, is very different than cutdowns to meet 53 man player limits before and during the season, particularly when there is a conflict of sorts between the player and team. (Green, Rison, etc.)

There is a huge difference between a player a team gives up on in the middle of camp, and one who becomes a free agent because his contract has expired (Jenkins, Wilkerson, etc.)

Everything about the Merriman situation screams that his career is done. Injuries have made his last four years virtually nonexistent. His performance has been minimal even when he has played. The Bills need players, yet they gave up on him well in advance of the first cut down date.

To bring Merriman in, someone needs to be released. Frankly, I am more interested in seeing what the young unknowns have than looking at Merriman.

Jenkins and Wilkerson were both cut by teams. (no expiring contracts) The Packers signed them and both players were integral players on super bowl teams.

The point is just because a player is cut does not mean he is no longer effective. The league is full of examples.

With that said too many board members were basing Merriman current situation on getting cut and stats.

I am asking to go beyond that methodology and provide an evaluation based on current play. Is being cut due to character issues?

[Upnorth]

If we could evaluate him with out any cap issues and if we have a throw away player on the 90 list then why not. If he would impact the cap poorly then he is not worth the gamble.

[Spaulding]

Okay, just finished trolling some of the Buffalo Bills forums for fan input as well sites such as ESPN, Bleacher Report, etc. and the action to release Merriman appears to stem from the following:

1) Buffalo DL depth after signing of free agents (Mario Williams and Mark Anderson) and emergence of Chris Kelsay and Kyle Moore
2) Switch from 3-4 to 4-3 scheme
3) Salary

Per Merriman and quotes from head coach Chan Gailey, Merriman is in the best shape he's been in and everyone was optimistic he'd return to the form of old. So far through two preseason games though he's pretty invisible and thus the Bills have decided to cut him and go with their prized FA aquisitions and younger players.

I don't see how any team would sign him at his current salary with all the associated risks. I do however expect some team to take a flyer on him for the vets minimum just to see if he can relive his glory days if truly healthy and in great shape. Although much of his NFL performance has been attributed to PED's, given that he was a high draft choice has it even been confirmed that he was an abuser in college too? If not, then there is hope for him yet if over the achilles injury that has plagued him these past two years.

As for the Pack, if we hadn't drafted Perry I could see them having some interest but as things currently stand, I don't see the Packers going after and older injury prone player. Then again I didn't think I'd see the day that the Packers would sign Benson so who knows.

[ThunderDan]

Jenkins and Wilkerson were both cut by teams. (no expiring contracts) The Packers signed them and both players were integral players on super bowl teams.

The point is just because a player is cut does not mean he is no longer effective. The league is full of examples.

With that said too many board members were basing Merriman current situation on getting cut and stats.

I am asking to go beyond that methodology and provide an evaluation based on current play. Is being cut due to character issues?

Let's see if any of our PackerRat members has been to the Buffalo training camp. I am guessing not but you never know. Why don't you go find some articles on the situation and link to them showing Merriman could be a positive impact on some teams roster for 2012?

Not being an ass but I think that is the best we are going to find on Merriman so far this year.

[ThunderDan]

Okay, just finished trolling some of the Buffalo Bills forums for fan input as well sites such as ESPN, Bleacher Report, etc. and the action to release Merriman appears to stem from the following:

1) Buffalo DL depth after signing of free agents (Mario Williams and Mark Anderson) and emergence of Chris Kelsay and Kyle Moore
2) Switch from 3-4 to 4-3 scheme
3) Salary

Per Merriman and quotes from head coach Chan Gailey, Merriman is in the best shape he's been in and everyone was optimistic he'd return to the form of old. So far through two preseason games though he's pretty invisible and thus the Bills have decided to cut him and go with their prized FA aquisitions and younger players.

I don't see how any team would sign him at his current salary with all the associated risks. I do however expect some team to take a flyer on him for the vets minimum just to see if he can relive his glory days if truly healthy and in great shape. Although much of his NFL performance has been attributed to PED's, given that he was a high draft choice has it even been confirmed that he was an abuser in college too? If not, then there is hope for him yet if over the achilles injury that has plagued him these past two years.

As for the Pack, if we hadn't drafted Perry I could see them having some interest but as things currently stand, I don't see the Packers going after and older injury prone player. Then again I didn't think I'd see the day that the Packers would sign Benson so who knows.

Thanks Spaulding for doing the research.

[rbaloha1]

Okay, just finished trolling some of the Buffalo Bills forums for fan input as well sites such as ESPN, Bleacher Report, etc. and the action to release Merriman appears to stem from the following:

1) Buffalo DL depth after signing of free agents (Mario Williams and Mark Anderson) and emergence of Chris Kelsay and Kyle Moore
2) Switch from 3-4 to 4-3 scheme
3) Salary

Per Merriman and quotes from head coach Chan Gailey, Merriman is in the best shape he's been in and everyone was optimistic he'd return to the form of old. So far through two preseason games though he's pretty invisible and thus the Bills have decided to cut him and go with their prized FA aquisitions and younger players.

I don't see how any team would sign him at his current salary with all the associated risks. I do however expect some team to take a flyer on him for the vets minimum just to see if he can relive his glory days if truly healthy and in great shape. Although much of his NFL performance has been attributed to PED's, given that he was a high draft choice has it even been confirmed that he was an abuser in college too? If not, then there is hope for him yet if over the achilles injury that has plagued him these past two years.

As for the Pack, if we hadn't drafted Perry I could see them having some interest but as things currently stand, I don't see the Packers going after and older injury prone player. Then again I didn't think I'd see the day that the Packers would sign Benson so who knows.


Good post. Worth signing for no guaranteed money and slightly above the veteran minimum. Appears SM was cut due to new scheme and salary.

[Patler]

Jenkins and Wilkerson were both cut by teams. (no expiring contracts) The Packers signed them and both players were integral players on super bowl teams.

The point is just because a player is cut does not mean he is no longer effective. The league is full of examples.

With that said too many board members were basing Merriman current situation on getting cut and stats.

I am asking to go beyond that methodology and provide an evaluation based on current play. Is being cut due to character issues?

Provide an evaluation based on current play? What current play? That's the whole point. The guy has barely played since 2007.

I assumed you were referring to Cullen Jenkins' signing with the Eagles. If you are referring to his originally coming to GB, he was signed by the Packers directly out of college as an undrafted free agent. He was cut in camp, was out of football for a season, then signed by the Packers again the next off season. With that scenario he was an unproven rookie, not unlike Tramon Williams. Still not very similar at all to the Merriman situation.

Wilkerson had been a free agent the year before and you are correct he was released the next year. That was back in the days when there was an abundance of salary cap casualties to pick from as teams (other than Green Bay and a few others) struggled to figure out how to manage the salary cap. Some teams would release pro bowl players just to get under the salary cap. These would occur when the new year (and new cap) started, or in early May when the "hit" could be spread over two years, and space was needed to sign the rookies. Again, not very similar to Merriman, who was already within the Bills' cap for the off season.

Look, I get your point; but you seem unwilling to recognize that Merriman has not been the player he was for the last four years. He has had 5 sacks in the last 4 years, partly due to injury after injury limiting his playing time, but also due to limited effectiveness in the few games he did play.

This is not a player having had a bad year, or even two; it is four bad years. It is not a player having had a bad injury and a slow recovery; it has been a string of injuries. The last time Shawne Merriman played like Shawne Merriman was in 2007. He has had knee, ankle and foot problems that have knocked him out. Last I believe was an achilles injury.

He was outstanding in 2005, 2006 & 2007. Nothing since then. I'll turn your question around. Based on the last 5 years, what makes you think he has any hope of returning to anything remotely close to what he was 5 years ago? When was the last time a player came back 5 years later, after 4 injury-filled nondescript seasons?

If he is willing, I'm sure someone will sign him to a minimum contract. Pro sports is filled with examples of players who were brief stars getting chance after chance after chance. It will probably happen again for Merriman, too. I don't expect the Packers to waste a bit of time with him.

[Patler]

Good post. Worth signing for no guaranteed money and slightly above the veteran minimum. Appears SM was cut due to new scheme and salary.

If Shawne Merriman was at all close to the Shawne Merriman of old, do you think they would have cut him due to scheme change? I suspect they would have found a way to use him within the scheme, or adjusted the scheme to use him. You don't cut an All-Pro just because the scheme changed, especially with all the variations teams use now anyway.

Apparently they aren't saving much in the salary cap area anyway. He already received a $1 million roster bonus in March, and it has now been reported that $3million of his $4 million 2012 salary is already guaranteed anyway. Apparently it became guaranteed when he was cleared to practice in 2011. If these reports are correct, all they are saving is $1 million. Not peanuts, for sure, but if he was anything close to the Shawne Merriman of old, would they pass on it for the sake of $1 million when they have already paid him about $10 million for virtually no production?

NBC Sports from the end of the 2011 season:


The Bills have paid linebacker Shawne Merriman $6.95 million over the last season and a half for one sack and nine tackles in five games.

Amazingly, Merriman’s contract appears to get worse for the Bills.

According to a January article by Tim Graham (formerly of ESPN.com), Merriman is guaranteed another $3 million in 2012. We’ve seen it written that the Bills had some injury protection for that money, but that no longer appears to be true.
...
Merriman is due $4 million in base salary in 2012 and a $1 million roster bonus next March. We can’t imagine the Bills will give him another chance, so they will basically have to pay him $3 million to go away.

Note: They were assuming the Bills would cut him before the roster bonus was due. They didn't.

[rbaloha1]

I have no idea and neither do you. Based on words you win. BTW Cullen Jenkins was not directly signed by the Packers out of college -- he was signed by another team and cut. The Packers picked him up. Wilkerson was cut during the 1996 season.

The point is being cut is not always due to poor play.

What is wrong with giving the guy a tryout?

[Joemailman]

A waste of time. He hasn't been any good since he had reconstructive knee surgery in 2008.

[Patler]

I have no idea and neither do you. Based on words you win. BTW Cullen Jenkins was not directly signed by the Packers out of college -- he was signed by another team and cut. The Packers picked him up. Wilkerson was cut during the 1996 season.

The point is being cut is not always due to poor play.

What is wrong with giving the guy a tryout?

OK, who signed and cut Jenkins? I am 99.99% sure (as the commercial says :) ) that the Packers were the first to sign Jenkins out of college.

There is nothing "wrong" with doing as you suggest, I just think it is a waste of time. Besides, as I said, I am more interested in whoever the unknown is who would have to be cut to bring Merriman in.

I am no more interested in him than I am in Aaron Kampman, who is also available.

[mission]

OK, who signed and cut Jenkins? I am 99.99% sure (as the commercial says :) ) that the Packers were the first to sign Jenkins out of college.

There is nothing "wrong" with doing as you suggest, I just think it is a waste of time. Besides, as I said, I am more interested in whoever the unknown is who would have to be cut to bring Merriman in.

I am no more interested in him than I am in Aaron Kampman, who is also available.

Packers definitely signed him in 03 out of Central Michigan.

And absolutely no to any tire kick whatsoever of Merriman. How has this got to 3 pages? Whose reps is he gonna take???

[Patler]

From Jenkins' Packer bio:

Jenkins' Last college season - 2002.
Packers signed Jenkins - May 2, 2003.


2003: Spent the season out of football after Green Bay waived him in the first mandatory roster reduction, Aug. 26... 2003 Draft: Originally signed with the Packers as a non-drafted free agent on May 2.

COLLEGE: Was a four-year letterwinner (1999-2002) at Central Michigan, starting his last three years... Majored in elementary education... Senior season (2002): Recorded 40 tackles (20 solo), seven tackles for a loss, 4½ sacks and two passes defensed in 12 games... Junior season (2001): Started every game and finished with 48 tackles (28 solo), 10 stops for a loss and five sacks... Sophomore season (2000): Recorded 49 tackles and two sacks following limited action as true freshman in 1999.

2003 NFL draft - April 26-27, 2003

Who signed him and released him between April 27 and May 2?
Could have happened, but would be odd. (Not to mention that he would then not have been signed "as a non-drafted free agent " as his bio said. He would have been a waiver claim, I believe, if he had been signed by someone else and released.)

[rbaloha1]

Packers definitely signed him in 03 out of Central Michigan.

And absolutely no to any tire kick whatsoever of Merriman. How has this got to 3 pages? Whose reps is he gonna take???

Ok stand corrected. CJ was cut by the Packers once before being resigned. Mistakes are made.

Why is it a waste of time to fly SM for a physical and tryout? SM can take reps from CJ Wilson, Jarius Wynn, Mike Neal and other scrubs.

[Lurker64]

Ok stand corrected. CJ was cut by the Packers once before being resigned. Mistakes are made.

Why is it a waste of time to fly SM for a physical and tryout? SM can take reps from CJ Wilson, Jarius Wynn, Mike Neal and other scrubs.

Merriman is an outside linebacker, not a defensive lineman. He wouldn't take reps from Wilson, Wynn, etc. He would take reps from Matthews and Perry (also Walden, Moses, So'oto, etc.)

If you want to sign him and convert him to a different position than the one he excelled at early on in San Diego, and the one he played in Buffalo, then it'll be even more difficult to actually get anything out of him. Guys don't always do well changing positions late in their careers.

[Patler]

Ok stand corrected. CJ was cut by the Packers once before being resigned. Mistakes are made.

Why is it a waste of time to fly SM for a physical and tryout? SM can take reps from CJ Wilson, Jarius Wynn, Mike Neal and other scrubs.

For the same reason that it would have been a waste of time to bring in Kris Jenkins last year, or Aaron Kampman now.

What indication is there that he has anything to offer 5 years after he last performed well?
Why has anything changed from what has happened the last 4 seasons?

EVEN IF, he played decently in TC, would you really want to count on him to make it through the season? I think he would be too much of a risk, unless he is willing to take a vet minimum contract, with no bonus, so he would qualify for the reduced salary cap feature for veterans, like Benson did.

[rbaloha1]

Merriman is an outside linebacker, not a defensive lineman. He wouldn't take reps from Wilson, Wynn, etc. He would take reps from Matthews and Perry (also Walden, Moses, So'oto, etc.)

If you want to sign him and convert him to a different position than the one he excelled at early on in San Diego, and the one he played in Buffalo, then it'll be even more difficult to actually get anything out of him. Guys don't always do well changing positions late in their careers.

Merriman could play as a backup to whomever in obvious pass rush situations. Roster spot could be opened up by replacing one of the d-line scrubs.

Perry and Matthews are set and get the bulk of the reps. So'oto and Moses are unproven in the regular season. Its fine to give reps to Merriman if he shows pass rush during games and not practice.

[rbaloha1]

For the same reason that it would have been a waste of time to bring in Kris Jenkins last year, or Aaron Kampman now.

What indication is there that he has anything to offer 5 years after he last performed well?
Why has anything changed from what has happened the last 4 seasons?

EVEN IF, he played decently in TC, would you really want to count on him to make it through the season? I think he would be too much of a risk, unless he is willing to take a vet minimum contract, with no bonus, so he would qualify for the reduced salary cap feature for veterans, like Benson did.

How much time and resources are wasted? Backup olbs are questionable.

[rbaloha1]

For the same reason that it would have been a waste of time to bring in Kris Jenkins last year, or Aaron Kampman now.

What indication is there that he has anything to offer 5 years after he last performed well?
Why has anything changed from what has happened the last 4 seasons?

EVEN IF, he played decently in TC, would you really want to count on him to make it through the season? I think he would be too much of a risk, unless he is willing to take a vet minimum contract, with no bonus, so he would qualify for the reduced salary cap feature for veterans, like Benson did.

You are grasping for straws to make a point -- AK proved he can not play in the Packers 3-4.

[Lurker64]

Merriman could play as a backup to whomever in obvious pass rush situations. Roster spot could be opened up by replacing one of the d-line scrubs.

Perry and Matthews are set and get the bulk of the reps. So'oto and Moses are unproven in the regular season. Its fine to give reps to Merriman if he shows pass rush during games and not practice.

In pass rushing situations, you will see two defensive linemen, 5 defensive backs, and Perry and Matthews on the edge. The defensive linemen in the game will be 3-tech types like Raji, Muir, Daniels, and Worthy who are there mostly to push the pocket and play the run. The ILBs (Hawk and Smith presumably) have coverage responsibilities, unless they are assigned to blitz. Where on earth would Merriman play?

We're only keeping 6 DL anyway, and it looks like Raji, Pickett, Worthy, Muir, Wilson, and Daniels. You can't cut Wilson for Merriman there, since Wilson is the best LDE in run-stopping situations of the bunch. I suppose you could cut Muir, but he's absolutely earned a roster spot thus far.

So'oto actually looked pretty good in limited duty in the regular season last year, I certainly wouldn't pick up a guy like Merriman to retard So'oto's development. The difference between the two is that Merriman is a declining player, while So'oto is still getting better.

[Lurker64]

You are grasping for straws to make a point -- AK proved he can not play in the Packers 3-4.

More to the point, nobody has signed Aaron Kampman or Kris Jenkins for the reasons Patler was pointing to. Even 4-3 teams.

[Patler]

You are grasping for straws to make a point -- AK proved he can not play in the Packers 3-4.

I disagree with that. For the games he played that season, he lead the team in QB pressures, and actually seemed to be getting the hang of it a bit. However, it was very clear that he had no interest in continuing the transition.

I would suggest that Merriman has also proven that he can not play any longer. Merriman had 3 quality season, one mediocre season, and 3 miserable ones. Having done nothing since 2007 says it all, in my book.

[rbaloha1]

In pass rushing situations, you will see two defensive linemen, 5 defensive backs, and Perry and Matthews on the edge. The defensive linemen in the game will be 3-tech types like Raji, Muir, Daniels, and Worthy who are there mostly to push the pocket and play the run. The ILBs (Hawk and Smith presumably) have coverage responsibilities, unless they are assigned to blitz. Where on earth would Merriman play?

We're only keeping 6 DL anyway, and it looks like Raji, Pickett, Worthy, Muir, Wilson, and Daniels. You can't cut Wilson for Merriman there, since Wilson is the best LDE in run-stopping situations of the bunch. I suppose you could cut Muir, but he's absolutely earned a roster spot thus far.

So'oto actually looked pretty good in limited duty in the regular season last year, I certainly wouldn't pick up a guy like Merriman to retard So'oto's development. The difference between the two is that Merriman is a declining player, while So'oto is still getting better.

Blah Blah Blah. Its mixing and matching the best talent. So'oto showed nothing in the regular season.

Was Bruce Wilkerson a declining player when signed by the Pacekrs? Was Andre Rison a declining player when signed by the Packers? Was Howard Green a declining player when signed by the Packers? Was Eric Walden a declining player when signed by the Packers?

Bottom Line -- its about winning the super bowl now. If Merriman can still sack the qb its worth it even with declining skills.

The only way to find out is to bring in for a physical and tryout. Not by reading pseudo gm nonsense on a message board.

[rbaloha1]

More to the point, nobody has signed Aaron Kampman or Kris Jenkins for the reasons Patler was pointing to. Even 4-3 teams.

So?

[Guiness]

Kampman played not badly his year at OLB. Certainly didn't stink the joint up.

His time in Jax is another story, of course.

[Guiness]

Kampman played not badly his year at OLB. Certainly didn't stink the joint up.

His time in Jax is another story, of course.

Cullen Jenkins is a good story, the way he was a UDFA, cut, spent a year in NFL Europe then came back and stuck.

[rbaloha1]

Kampman played not badly his year at OLB. Certainly didn't stink the joint up.

You are kidding right? How do you explain pass AK's pass coverage abilities?

[Patler]

Bottom Line -- its about winning the super bowl now. If Merriman can still sack the qb its worth it even with declining skills.

The only way to find out is to bring in for a physical and tryout. Not by reading pseudo gm nonsense on a message board.

But he hasn't done it since 2007. Does he have to prove his declining skills on the Packers training field when he has proven it in games for other teams, on other practice fields and in other training rooms in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011?

[rbaloha1]

But he hasn't done it since 2007. Does he have to prove his declining skills on the Packers training field when he has proven it in games for other teams, on other practice fields and in other training rooms in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011?

Again how much is invested in bringing in the guy for a tryout? The point is a high caliber player with declining skills can make a contribution which you fail to recognize.

Everyone knows SM has declining skills -- ?? How much is left in the tank? Why are so adverse to a physical examination and a tryout? Are you a doctor and a former gm?

[Lurker64]

If bringing Merriman for a tryout is such a trivial, painless no-brainer then why has no one done so yet?

I mean, it's not like Green Bay has the worst pass rushers in the league, and it's not like other teams with serious pass rushing questions couldn't fit Merriman in their scheme.

I mean, the Patriots could use him, and Bellichick is always taking chances on guys like this (Haynesworth and Ochocinco last year, say.) The Jets could certainly use him, and Ryan has no issue with personalities like Merriman's.

[Gunakor]

Bottom Line -- its about winning the super bowl now. If Merriman can still sack the qb its worth it even with declining skills.

I agree with the first part of this statement 100%. The problem with the second part is that it's quite clear to anyone watching that Merriman CAN'T sack the QB any longer. One or two fluke bad seasons didn't prove that about him, a 4 year trend proves that about him. We don't have to bring him in for a tryout to piece that one together. 7 combined sacks over 4 seasons doesn't inspire any confidence going forward at all. Erik Walden and Brad Jones can do that easily, and they're already here. Merriman is going to be a disappointment for whoever signs him. I'd very much rather it be some other team.

[Gunakor]

The point is a high caliber player with declining skills can make a contribution which you fail to recognize.

No, we do recognize that. We just don't recognize Merriman as a high caliber player.

I'm not a doctor or a former GM. Just a football fan with a television. You know what they say, the camera doesn't lie.

[Patler]

Again how much is invested in bringing in the guy for a tryout? The point is a high caliber player with declining skills can make a contribution which you fail to recognize.

Everyone knows SM has declining skills -- ?? How much is left in the tank? Why are so adverse to a physical examination and a tryout? Are you a doctor and a former gm?

I understand very well the contributions that can come from a player with declining skills.
But I also appreciate the time, effort and team/coaching focus that can be wasted chasing a player who is finished.
I put Merriman in the second category.

You talk about declining skills in Merriman. I would say disappeared skills, not declining. The guy has done absolutely nothing since 2007. When is it over for him? After five years of no contributions? Six? Seven? How long can he live on the hope of the flash from his first three years?

All of that said, I will not be surprised if they bring Merriman in for an afternoon tryout after TC is done. I do not expect them to burn a TC roster spot on him, however.

Now watch, they will go out and sign him next week ! :lol:

[Pugger]

Wasn't this goofball on 'roids when he set the league on fire but hasn't done squat once he stopped juicing?

[Joemailman]

Wasn't this goofball on roids when he set the league on fire but hasn't done squat once he stopped juicing?

He was caught in 2006. He had one more good year in 2007 before the decline set in.

[Zool]

Amazing what knee injuries do to a guy's speed and lack of roids do to a guy's power.

[rbaloha1]

Wow, the echo chamber pseudo gms do not believe any former elite player with an injury history and declining skills should be given at the bare minimum a tryout.

I guess that what happens with Ryan Republicans.:trll:

[Zool]

Wow, the echo chamber pseudo gms do not believe any former elite player with an injury history and declining skills should be given at the bare minimum a tryout.

I guess that what happens with Ryan Republicans.:trll:

Maybe read what Thompson and McCarthy keep preaching about team chemistry. How they might cut someone with greater ability and keep someone that fit better with the team. Then take a look at Merriman's history. You call people pseudo GMs while yourself attempting to justify "just bringing a guy in to see".

[rbaloha1]

Maybe read what Thompson and McCarthy keep preaching about team chemistry. How they might cut someone with greater ability and keep someone that fit better with the team. Then take a look at Merriman's history. You call people pseudo GMs while yourself attempting to justify "just bringing a guy in to see".


Also a pseudo gm as well. If Merriman has big time character issues like TO then no tryout. My contention was lets see what Merriman has left in the tank without any guaranteed money.

[Patler]

Wow, the echo chamber pseudo gms do not believe any former elite player with an injury history and declining skills should be given at the bare minimum a tryout.

I guess that what happens with Ryan Republicans.:trll:

Of course, the flip side of that argument is that we have another group of pseudo-gms on here who think that every player with a recognizable name should be given a tryout, and any player who was once good still has the possibility to be good, no matter how many years he has played like crap, or been unable to play with injuries since he last was productive..

You have still not identified what makes you think he is worth a tryout. Many of us have told you why we think he is not, because he has done nothing for 5 years and has had one injury after another. We have given you facts behind our opinions. You have given us nothing. What makes you think he is worth even a look?

[rbaloha1]

Why were Benson (character issues) and Wells (descending player) signed?

[Patler]

Why were Benson (character issues) and Wells (descending player) signed?

Durability and production, two characteristics not found in Shawne Merriman since 2007.

[rbaloha1]

Of course, the flip side of that argument is that we have another group of pseudo-gms on here who think that every player with a recognizable name should be given a tryout, and any player who was once good still has the possibility to be good, no matter how many years he has played like crap, or been unable to play with injuries since he last was productive..

You have still not identified what makes you think he is worth a tryout. Many of us have told you why we think he is not, because he has done nothing for 5 years and has had one injury after another. We have given you facts behind our opinions. You have given us nothing. What makes you think he is worth even a look?

I provided an opinion except its not a mammoth amount of words which intimidates others from contributing.

My opinion is based on the success of Packers signing players like: Wilkerson, Rison, T. Williams, Howard Green, C. Jenkins (cut previously by the packers), etc. The Packers have a history of bringing in these type of players with success. Merriman could be in this category.

One man's garbage is another person's treasure.

[rbaloha1]

Durability and production, two characteristics not found in Shawne Merriman since 2007.

Please provide a film breakdown of Merriman without hiding behind stats.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Wow, the echo chamber pseudo gms do not believe any former elite player with an injury history and declining skills should be given at the bare minimum a tryout.

I don't see the up side here. His body of work over the last 4 years doesn't warrant a tryout. He may have been able to get after the QB once upon a time but he's had equally as many bad years as good ones. And given the bad years are much more recent, it's a very good indicator that it is where he currently is in his career and ability.

[mraynrand]

I provided an opinion except its not a mammoth amount of words which intimidates others from contributing.

My opinion is based on the success of Packers signing players like: Wilkerson, Rison, T. Williams, Howard Green, C. Jenkins (cut previously by the packers), etc. The Packers have a history of bringing in these type of players with success. Merriman could be in this category.

One man's garbage is another person's treasure.

Some time's one man's garbage becomes another man's garbage. I'm sure the Packers have plenty of film and an entire book on this guy. Since the Packers have shown a willingness to bring in guys like Howard Green, if they don't bring in Merriman, that should speak volumes, regardless of what we think of the guy.

[rbaloha1]

Some time's one man's garbage becomes another man's garbage. I'm sure the Packers have plenty of film and an entire book on this guy. Since the Packers have shown a willingness to bring in guys like Howard Green, if they don't bring in Merriman, that should speak volumes, regardless of what we think of the guy.

Should TT pass on SM that is good enough for me.

[mraynrand]

Should TT pass on SM that is good enough for me.


Me too. I admit I'm kindof a sucker for these former prospects/former stars, thinking that they may come in a give a spark. But there's usually a good reason they get released, and even if they help for a while, they don't stick (Rison, Green). My favorite example is Jim Zorn. Back in the day, I remember watching him play for the Seachickens and thinking that the guy was a real gamer. Then I hear the Packers picked him up. Momentary excitement. But the guy was beyond washed up. The last nickname my brother and I gave him was "Bounce Pass" Zorn - because the guy couldn't throw a simple out pattern anymore. His skills were non-existant. It was embarrassing. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me that's where Merriman is right now.

[Patler]

I provided an opinion except its not a mammoth amount of words which intimidates others from contributing.

My opinion is based on the success of Packers signing players like: Wilkerson, Rison, T. Williams, Howard Green, C. Jenkins (cut previously by the packers), etc. The Packers have a history of bringing in these type of players with success. Merriman could be in this category.

One man's garbage is another person's treasure.

Sorry, your logic fails. The Packers have also passed on bringing in many other has-beens. What about Merriman makes you think it is worth while? The Packers signing him would not make it worthwhile.

[rbaloha1]

Sorry, your logic fails. The Packers have also passed on bringing in many other has-beens. What about Merriman makes you think it is worth while? The Packers signing him would not make it worthwhile.

You are stating the obvious. I NEVER TALKED ABOUT SIGNING MERRIMAN -- I DO NOT KNOW IF ITS WORTHWHILE TO SIGN MERRIMAN. THE ONLY WAY TO DETERMINE IS WITH A TRYOUT.

Now Sir, your film analysis post steroids.

[Patler]

Durability and production, two characteristics not found in Shawne Merriman since 2007.Please provide a film breakdown of Merriman without hiding behind stats.

I should provide a film breakdown to support my opinion, but you do not have to provide the same to support yours??? Why is that?

My opinion is no, yours is yes.
I, and others, have given reasons related to Merriman's career that support our position.
Apparently, you base your opinion on what some other players have done, which has absolutely no relationship to Merriman's situation. There is no cause and effect relationship.

The Packers acquired successful FAs, sure. The have also acquired many who failed. Obviously, they have also passed on thousands of FA opportunities just while TT has been here, some of whom failed elsewhere, and some of whom succeeded elsewhere. If they have been right more often than wrong, all it indicates is that they are more likely than not to make a good decision.

[Patler]

You are stating the obvious. I NEVER TALKED ABOUT SIGNING MERRIMAN -- I DO NOT KNOW IF ITS WORTHWHILE TO SIGN MERRIMAN. THE ONLY WAY TO DETERMINE IS WITH A TRYOUT.

Now Sir, your film analysis post steroids.

Which is why I said I would not be surprised if they bring him in for a physical etc. after the season starts. To put him on the field and take reps away from others, as you suggested, requires that he be signed first.

Where is your film analysis to indicate why he should be brought in? Opposite opinions on the same issue require the same type of analysis to support.

So, Sir, where is YOUR film analysis????????

[Patler]

My opinion is based on the success of Packers signing players like: Wilkerson, Rison, T. Williams, Howard Green, C. Jenkins (cut previously by the packers), etc. The Packers have a history of bringing in these type of players with success. Merriman could be in this category.

One man's garbage is another person's treasure.

Then I will ask you for the same as you have asked of us. Please provide a film breakdown of Merriman without relying on references to the performance of others. After all, what Wilkerson, Rison, Tim Couch, Earl Little, Matt O'Dwyer, Rod Gardner, or anyone else has done has nothing to do with Merriman's present abilities, and whether or not he merits a look-see.

[ThunderDan]

Wow, the echo chamber pseudo gms do not believe any former elite player with an injury history and declining skills should be given at the bare minimum a tryout.



Appartently 31 other "real" GMs agree so far with the pseudo GMs and the 32nd GM cut his ass to save $1,000,000 against the cap when a majority of his salary was already guaranteed.

[ThunderDan]

Just look at the SM thread I recently bumped. In the fall of 2009 members here were willing to give up to a 2nd round pick to get Merriman back then. Good thing TT didn't listen.

[Guiness]

Some time's one man's garbage becomes another man's garbage. I'm sure the Packers have plenty of film and an entire book on this guy. Since the Packers have shown a willingness to bring in guys like Howard Green, if they don't bring in Merriman, that should speak volumes, regardless of what we think of the guy.


Well put. Have some faith in the man who's shown he knows a little about players.

I know, I know! Chad 'Pinocchio' Johnson is available! (I rt-clicked 'Occochino' to see what spell check brought up, and I now have a new nickname for him!)

[mraynrand]

So, Sir, where is YOUR film analysis????????

this is pretty interesting:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Am4qdl9PTA

[Freak Out]

Now we're done.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Shawne Merriman? Why don't we just bring back Javon Walker at the same time.

[Patler]

this is pretty interesting:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Am4qdl9PTA

That is a very interesting analysis. I have heard talks about the odd reactions of the bystanders, and their apparently odd sizes before, but the details about shadow sharpness, position changes from frame to frame, etc. are all very interesting.

[Lurker64]

Durability and production, two characteristics not found in Shawne Merriman since 2007.

Also desperation. With Starks's turf toe keeping him out for a while, Green being brought back slow, and Saine's hamstring issue... the Packers were down to around 0 NFL calibre running backs. Watching the backup OL struggle clearly indicated that an infusion of some kind of talent would be appreciated.

The Packers signed Wells and Benson because they were in a bind at RB and on the backup OL. The Packers are in no comparable bind as concerns pass rushers. They have a pair of starters with pass rushing skills, and some backups who are young players with upside. That's certainly not desperate.

But I'm firmly of the opinion that the reason you sign a declining player off the street (like a Howard Green or a Cedric Benson) is because you're desperate, and it's a hail mary. Sometimes those work out for you, but there's no good reason to throw a Hail Mary on 2nd and 6 from midfield with 3 minutes on the clock.

[mraynrand]

but there's no good reason to throw a Hail Mary on 2nd and 6 from midfield with 3 minutes on the clock.

unless you think you can make a play!

http://thirddownconversion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/favre_is_going_3400_large1.jpg

sorry, I just couldn't help myself!

[Guiness]

gawd, TC is going on, Joe posted a ton of great photos, we have 2 pre-season games to analyze and THIS is the top thread?

*sigh*

[ThunderDan]

unless you think you can make a play!

http://thirddownconversion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/favre_is_going_3400_large1.jpg

sorry, I just couldn't help myself!

Where's Scott when you need him?!

[BobDobbs]

I can't find film, we'll all just have to use our imagination.

"In less than two years, pass-rusher Shawne Merriman played five games for the Buffalo Bills and never got to do this Lights Out dance. He recorded one sack, the closest defender when Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton ran out of bounds."
http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2012/08/how-bills-spent-977-million-on-shawne-merriman.html

[rbaloha1]

The tryout suggestion is due to my lack of film on Merriman.

Again, anyone with a film and analysis of Merriman post steroid without knucklehead comments please share. Too many pseudo gms and comedians on this thread.

[rbaloha1]

Also desperation. With Starks's turf toe keeping him out for a while, Green being brought back slow, and Saine's hamstring issue... the Packers were down to around 0 NFL calibre running backs. Watching the backup OL struggle clearly indicated that an infusion of some kind of talent would be appreciated.

The Packers signed Wells and Benson because they were in a bind at RB and on the backup OL. The Packers are in no comparable bind as concerns pass rushers. They have a pair of starters with pass rushing skills, and some backups who are young players with upside. That's certainly not desperate.

But I'm firmly of the opinion that the reason you sign a declining player off the street (like a Howard Green or a Cedric Benson) is because you're desperate, and it's a hail mary. Sometimes those work out for you, but there's no good reason to throw a Hail Mary on 2nd and 6 from midfield with 3 minutes on the clock.

How many sacks did the Packers have last year? Why were so many players d players drafted last season?

Packers still have a pass rush issue until Perry, etc. show it in real games.

A way to minimize "hail marys" is to continually build and find the best players that fit schemes.

[Lurker64]

The tryout suggestion is due to my lack of film on Merriman.

Again, anyone with a film and analysis of Merriman post steroid without knucklehead comments please share. Too many pseudo gms and comedians on this thread.

I believe to post in a thread about "Should the Packers sign this player" you have to either be a wannabe-GM or attempting to be funny. There's no other way to participate.

But, to assuage any concerns you might have, be aware that the Packers do their due diligence on everybody. They've had a conversation internally about Merriman, and he's probably on an "in case of emergency" list, but the reason they haven't bought him yet is that they do not want to. The folks at 1265 are much better at the personnel business than you and I are.

Merriman, if signed by any team, would not be signed before Week 1 since players who are on week 1 rosters have their entire salaries guaranteed for the year, whereas players who are put on rosters after week 1 are only paid for games they play. So the reason you don't bring in Merriman now, even for a workout, is that no team is willing to guarantee his salary for the season. Given how many games he's missed over the past few years due to one injury or another, this is prudent.

[rbaloha1]

I believe to post in a thread about "Should the Packers sign this player" you have to either be a wannabe-GM or attempting to be funny. There's no other way to participate.

But, to assuage any concerns you might have, be aware that the Packers do their due diligence on everybody. They've had a conversation internally about Merriman, and he's probably on an "in case of emergency" list, but the reason they haven't bought him yet is that they do not want to. The folks at 1265 are much better at the personnel business than you and I are.

Merriman, if signed by any team, would not be signed before Week 1 since players who are on week 1 rosters have their entire salaries guaranteed for the year, whereas players who are put on rosters after week 1 are only paid for games they play. So the reason you don't bring in Merriman now, even for a workout, is that no team is willing to guarantee his salary for the season. Given how many games he's missed over the past few years due to one injury or another, this is prudent.


Thank you once again for stating the obvious.

I never once said to sign Merriman for guaranteed money without a tryout. Is there any harm to tryout SM prior to the season opener (other than hurt ditto head egos)?

Should the workout warrant a roster spot is it possible to sign Merriman to a game by game contract after game 1? Please reply in 50 characters or less if possible.

Mahalo.

[Patler]

I never once said to sign Merriman for guaranteed money without a tryout. Is there any harm to tryout SM prior to the season opener...?

What constitutes a "tryout" in yout statement above?

[rbaloha1]

What constitutes a "tryout" in yout statement above?

My tryout is only mentioned there.(Boy you sure knit pick, feel sorry for your family). The rationale is the history the Packers have had with declining vets, plugging them in for a season or two (contributing to a super bowl) then releasing them.

The tryout is to see if SM has anything left in the tank. Unable to pass a physical or a subpar workout -- aloha. Should TT deem SM is worth a roster spot -- wait until after game 1.

Boy you guys stay up late answering my annoying posts. (Psst -- I can keep you all night!) LOL

[Lurker64]

A player of the stature of Merriman won't come into town for a "tryout." If you say "hey, want to come into town and try out for the team" his agent's response will most likely be "no, not really" particularly if it's a town like Green Bay.

His agent knows that come week 2, he'll be able to get a contract. No team's going to offer him a contract before week 1 though. Signing him before week 1 would be a mistake and every GM knows it.

[mission]

This is pretty much a 1 vs. everyone conversation at this point. It's pretty obvious. Dude was cut by the Bills in order to (really) save $1m... that says it all. The Bills.

[rbaloha1]

A player of the stature of Merriman won't come into town for a "tryout." If you say "hey, want to come into town and try out for the team" his agent's response will most likely be "no, not really" particularly if it's a town like Green Bay.

His agent knows that come week 2, he'll be able to get a contract. No team's going to offer him a contract before week 1 though. Signing him before week 1 would be a mistake and every GM knows it.

How do you know this?

[Lurker64]

How do you know this?

When was the last time you saw a multiple-time All Pro accept a "tryout offer" from a team?

Other than undrafted rookies, NFL guys won't even take a physical before you're willing to talk contract.

Why would no team sign him now? Because then you either cut him before week 1, or you end up guaranteeing his entire salary for the season. If you sign him after the first game, you only pay him game by game. The whole "won't get a contract until week 2" thing is pretty common practice in the NFL.

[rbaloha1]

When was the last time you saw a multiple-time All Pro accept a "tryout offer" from a team?

Other than undrafted rookies, NFL guys won't even take a physical before you're willing to talk contract.

Why would no team sign him now? Because then you either cut him before week 1, or you end up guaranteeing his entire salary for the season. If you sign him after the first game, you only pay him game by game. The whole "won't get a contract until week 2" thing is pretty common practice in the NFL.

Okay forget the physical -- tryout only with no guarantees and in order to get a potential jump on other teams.

[rbaloha1]

When was the last time you saw a multiple-time All Pro accept a "tryout offer" from a team?

Other than undrafted rookies, NFL guys won't even take a physical before you're willing to talk contract.

Why would no team sign him now? Because then you either cut him before week 1, or you end up guaranteeing his entire salary for the season. If you sign him after the first game, you only pay him game by game. The whole "won't get a contract until week 2" thing is pretty common practice in the NFL.

T. Owens, Chad Ochosinco, Seau, Benson, Ahman Green, etc.

[Patler]

My tryout is only mentioned there.(Boy you sure knit pick, feel sorry for your family). The rationale is the history the Packers have had with declining vets, plugging them in for a season or two (contributing to a super bowl) then releasing them.

The tryout is to see if SM has anything left in the tank. Unable to pass a physical or a subpar workout -- aloha. Should TT deem SM is worth a roster spot -- wait until after game 1.

Boy you guys stay up late answering my annoying posts. (Psst -- I can keep you all night!) LOL

Right now, I don't care what your rational is for having a tryout. All I want to know is what will happen at the "tryout". Several times you have mentioned "bringing him in for a tryout" What kind of tryout? Running individual drills with a coach? One on ones. TC drills? Preseason game? What?

I am just trying to understand your position.

[rbaloha1]

I didn't ask, nor do I care what your rational is for having a tryout. All I want to know is what will happen at the "tryout". Several times you have mentioned "brining him in for a tryout" What kind of tryout? Running individual drills with a coach? What?

I am just trying to understand your position.

Thats up to TT who has conducted hundreds of these type of workouts. TT is an ex linebacker -- trust he knows what type of combine drills to conduct.

Gee Whiz -- is it getting past your bedtime?

[Lurker64]

T. Owens, Chad Ochosinco, Seau, Benson, Ahman Green, etc.

Terrell Owens had a tryout with the Seahawks, since the last time anybody saw him play football it was with the Allen Wranglers of the Indoor football league. Ochocinco, Seau, Green, and Benson were not told to come in and "try out." They visited with a team, talked to the coaches, got looked at by the trainers, and were eventually were offered a contract that they signed.

TT sure as heck didn't have Benson out there, not under contract, doing drills to see if he's still got it.

[rbaloha1]

Terrell Owens had a tryout with the Seahawks, since the last time anybody saw him play football it was with the Allen Wranglers of the Indoor football league. Ochocinco, Seau, Green, and Benson were not told to come in and "try out." They visited with a team, talked to the coaches, got looked at by the trainers, and were eventually were offered a contract that they signed.

TT sure as heck didn't have Benson out there, not under contract, doing drills to see if he's still got it.

How do you know?

[Patler]

Thats up to TT who has conducted hundreds of these type of workouts. TT is an ex linebacker -- trust he knows what type of combine drills to conduct.

Gee Whiz -- is it getting past your bedtime?

Well, there are several ways to handle it, and I am trying to understand what you have in mind. From what you have suggested, it can't happen without SM first signing a contract.

[Cheesehead Craig]

This is pretty much a 1 vs. everyone conversation at this point. It's pretty obvious. Dude was cut by the Bills in order to (really) save $1m... that says it all. The Bills.

Agreed. Just let it rest already. :beat:

[rbaloha1]

Well, there are several ways to handle it, and I am trying to understand what you have in mind. From what you have suggested, it can't happen without SM first signing a contract.


Where does it say that? If SM is unwilling to go thru a tryout first forget it. Unsure how much leverage SM has given his current situation.

Are you guys now saying a tryout should not happen due to protocol or declining stats?

[Lurker64]

How do you know?

Because practice, which is where you "try out" is open to the media during the preseason. Benson never appeared at practice before he signed. NFL veterans just don't do that sort of thing. When a player is brought in for a "tryout" this is reported in the media and (at least in the preseason) the media gets to watch.

When you sign a guy off the couch you may bring him in for a "workout" (rather than a "tryout") just to check conditioning, whether they can run and cut, etc. But there's no reason to do that with Merriman since there's nothing you could learn about Merriman by bringing him in for a workout that you couldn't learn from watching Bills preseason tape. If you called him and asked him to come in either for a tryout or workout, his agent would inform you of the fact that you can see him on tape in the first two Bills preseason games, and that should be all you need to see to conclude that he's healthy.

[Patler]

Where does it say that? If SM is unwilling to go thru a tryout first forget it. Unsure how much leverage SM has given his current situation.

Are you guys now saying a tryout should not happen due to protocol or declining stats?

Where does it say what?

Depends what you mean by "tryout".

[rbaloha1]

Where does it say what?

Depends what you mean by "tryout".

Again "tryout" is to prove SM is worthy of a contract offer at whatever time the Packers do not have to risk much money.

IMO SM does not have many options or leverage.

[Lurker64]

Again "tryout" is to prove SM is worthy of a contract offer at whatever time the Packers do not have to risk much money.

IMO SM does not have many options or leverage.

What I'm trying to tell you is "trying out" like you're saying is simply not a thing that is done for NFL players. When they've been out of football for an extensive period of time, yes. When a veteran got cut after the second preseason game, and the third preseason game hasn't happened yet, no. It just doesn't happen.

If you want to bring him in to talk contract, maybe he'll visit if he thinks you're serious, but NFL players generally don't want to visit Green Bay without a serious contract offer in hand.

[rbaloha1]

Because practice, which is where you "try out" is open to the media during the preseason. Benson never appeared at practice before he signed. NFL veterans just don't do that sort of thing. When a player is brought in for a "tryout" this is reported in the media and (at least in the preseason) the media gets to watch.

When you sign a guy off the couch you may bring him in for a "workout" (rather than a "tryout") just to check conditioning, whether they can run and cut, etc. But there's no reason to do that with Merriman since there's nothing you could learn about Merriman by bringing him in for a workout that you couldn't learn from watching Bills preseason tape. If you called him and asked him to come in either for a tryout or workout, his agent would inform you of the fact that you can see him on tape in the first two Bills preseason games, and that should be all you need to see to conclude that he's healthy.

Okay I mean workout. All 32 teams evaluate differently. How can you say nothing can be determined by a TT workout?

[rbaloha1]

What I'm trying to tell you is "trying out" like you're saying is simply not a thing that is done for NFL players. When they've been out of football for an extensive period of time, yes. When a veteran got cut after the second preseason game, and the third preseason game hasn't happened yet, no. It just doesn't happen.

If you want to bring him in to talk contract, maybe he'll visit if he thinks you're serious, but NFL players generally don't want to visit Green Bay without a serious contract offer in hand.

B.S.

[Lurker64]

Okay I mean workout. All 32 teams evaluate differently. How can you say nothing can be determined by a TT workout?

If you call Merriman's agent right now and say "hey, we want to bring in Shawne for a workout" the agent's response would be something like "He played extensively in two of Buffalo's preseason games, don't you guys employ pro scouts?"

Since the Packers do employ pro scouts, the workout would be unnecessary.

[rbaloha1]

If you call Merriman's agent right now and say "hey, we want to bring in Shawne for a workout" the agent's response would be something like "He played extensively in two of Buffalo's preseason games, don't you guys employ pro scouts?"

Since the Packers do employ pro scouts, the workout would be unnecessary.

How do you know?

[Lurker64]

How do you know?

How do I know that the Packers employ pro scouts?

http://www.packers.com/team/staff/glenn-cook/ff99403f-35ca-46f3-9371-c42b72fa6675
http://www.packers.com/team/staff/chad-brinker/71033491-e5d6-4144-9e3c-7e3e6f90461b

It's these guys jobs to know the answer to the question "Hey, can Shawne Merriman still play?" before you even make a phone call. Are you accusing them of incompetence?

[rbaloha1]

How do I know that the Packers employ pro scouts?

http://www.packers.com/team/staff/glenn-cook/ff99403f-35ca-46f3-9371-c42b72fa6675
http://www.packers.com/team/staff/chad-brinker/71033491-e5d6-4144-9e3c-7e3e6f90461b

It's these guys jobs to know the answer to the question "Hey, can Shawne Merriman still play?" before you even make a phone call. Are you accusing them of incompetence?

Okay wise guy. How do you know refers to how do you know his agent is saying your self-created nonsense not the scouting nonsense.

Dude go play with yourself already.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Dude go play with yourself already.

How do you know he's not already?

[rbaloha1]

How do you know he's not already?

You are right -- my bad.

[Cheesehead Craig]

You are right -- my bad.

How do you know you're bad?

[rbaloha1]

How do you know you're bad?

Your right Aristotle. LOL

[Cheesehead Craig]

Your right Aristotle. LOL

How do you know I'm Aristotle?

[rbaloha1]

How do you know I'm Aristotle?

By utilizing the same ditto head logic.:lol:

[George Cumby]

I am repping rbaloha1 just for his sheer doggedness, determination and conviction.

I also am OFFICIALLY nominating him for the "Custer's Last Stand Award" for pre-season 2012. Despite obviously insurmountable odds, despite an untenable tactical position, despite all evidence which clearly shows that defeat is all but inevitable, RB forges on with an iron will and self-assuredness worthy of a 19th Century narcissist with delusions of grandeur and political aspirations.

RB, I disagree with your position, just like almost everyone else on the board, but I love you, man. You want whats best for the Pack, and that's cool with me :-).

[LegandofthePack15]

NFL players generally don't want to visit Green Bay without a serious contract offer in hand.

lol. Nice generalization.

[LegandofthePack15]

As I wrote about 10,000 pages ago, given the bums the Packers have at OLB (with the exception of Matthews, of course), it wouldn't hurt to bring in Merriman for a look see.

Some posters just dont like Merriman b/c of his personality.

[Fritz]

As I wrote about 10,000 pages ago, given the bums the Packers have at OLB (with the exception of Matthews, of course), it wouldn't hurt to bring in Merriman for a look see.

Some posters just dont like Merriman b/c of his personality.

Some posters may not like Merriman's personality. I know I don't. However, the more salient point from those opposed to bringing Merriman in is that it's clear the guy is a shell of his former self - so in some people's minds, there's no point in wasting time and repetitions that could be used to evaluate younger, unknown players. If they don't display much, the odds are good Merriman will still be available in two weeks. As Aloha has said, the guy doesn't have much if any leverage right now.

[ThunderDan]

As I wrote about 10,000 pages ago

LOL, nice exaggeration.

[pbmax]

Merriman, as a vet with a ton of film, may not even want to visit teams initially. Eventually he may have no choice, but former starters don't usually like having a tryout. Sounds childish, but repeatedly it has been reported that agents won't even schedule them for workouts until there is no other choice. And I bet Merriman doesn't think there is no choice until Week 3.

The exception would be players coming off injuries, but they can also come in and just get a physical, not work out. Some refuse even that, preferring to send medical records. Teams are much more flexible about this that you may think as there was more than one team that said they would sign Peyton Manning without a physical or workout. Manning insisted, probably to avoid even more costly injury protection language in the contract.

This is all a result of the leverage FAs enjoy. Teams probably don't like it, but have to live with it.

And all agents prefer to have team-acceptable contract terms known before hand if at all possible to avoid wasting time and to help jack up offers elsewhere. The Packers routinely refuse to agree to such terms. I think Woodson might have been the rare exception as Thompson once was asked about his initial deal and he said the reason they signed him for that much is that they understood that was the amount it would take to get him to sign. Since the Packers had to give Woodson something close to his asking price, and we know he wasn't excited about coming here, I suspect the Packers had to bend the rule about agreements before hand as well.

[Pugger]

As I wrote about 10,000 pages ago, given the bums the Packers have at OLB (with the exception of Matthews, of course), it wouldn't hurt to bring in Merriman for a look see.

Some posters just dont like Merriman b/c of his personality.

I doubt Perry will turn out to be a bum...

[KYPack]

I am repping rbaloha1 just for his sheer doggedness, determination and conviction.

I also am OFFICIALLY nominating him for the "Custer's Last Stand Award" for pre-season 2012. Despite obviously insurmountable odds, despite an untenable tactical position, despite all evidence which clearly shows that defeat is all but inevitable, RB forges on with an iron will and self-assuredness worthy of a 19th Century narcissist with delusions of grandeur and political aspirations.

RB, I disagree with your position, just like almost everyone else on the board, but I love you, man. You want whats best for the Pack, and that's cool with me :-).

Some truth there.

Hawaii is whale country. RB is more like our Captain Ahab, pursuing his own little Great White Merriman.

[rbaloha1]

Some truth there.

Hawaii is whale country. RB is more like our Captain Ahab, pursuing his own little Great White Merriman.

Mahalo Braddah!

[rbaloha1]

I am repping rbaloha1 just for his sheer doggedness, determination and conviction.

I also am OFFICIALLY nominating him for the "Custer's Last Stand Award" for pre-season 2012. Despite obviously insurmountable odds, despite an untenable tactical position, despite all evidence which clearly shows that defeat is all but inevitable, RB forges on with an iron will and self-assuredness worthy of a 19th Century narcissist with delusions of grandeur and political aspirations.

RB, I disagree with your position, just like almost everyone else on the board, but I love you, man. You want whats best for the Pack, and that's cool with me :-).

Mahalo Cumby. The packers played you in the wrong position -- should have been the next maddog douglas.

[rbaloha1]

Some truth there.

Hawaii is whale country. RB is more like our Captain Ahab, pursuing his own little Great White Merriman.

Sorry to disappoint you but the missionaries died off but still have a bad legacy in the islands.

Please visit me during the pro bowl -- mai tais and bikinis await!

[Guiness]

Some posters may not like Merriman's personality. I know I don't. However, the more salient point from those opposed to bringing Merriman in is that it's clear the guy is a shell of his former self - so in some people's minds, there's no point in wasting time and repetitions that could be used to evaluate younger, unknown players. If they don't display much, the odds are good Merriman will still be available in two weeks. As Aloha has said, the guy doesn't have much if any leverage right now.


I think I may have posted something similar above, and if not, I meant to! Likelihood is low that anyone will bring him in now and guarantee his salary for the year. He'll be easy enough to find on his couch after the first week-end of the season.

[Travbrew]

As I wrote about 10,000 pages ago, given the bums the Packers have at OLB (with the exception of Matthews, of course), it wouldn't hurt to bring in Merriman for a look see.

Some posters just dont like Merriman b/c of his personality.

No, some posters just don't like Merriman b/c he's a washed up has-been. One could say he's a "Legand" in his own mind. Oh wait...did I not spell that (legend) correctly? :drma:

[Guiness]

We lost our chance at Gholston, the Rams got him. Fischer, you crazy gambler you!

Wait? This isn't the 'available washed up players' thread?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19871368/rams-sign-former-first-round-bust-vernon-gholston

[LegandofthePack15]

No, some posters just don't like Merriman b/c he's a washed up has-been. One could say he's a "Legand" in his own mind. Oh wait...did I not spell that (legend) correctly? :drma:

lol. It was a typo. Didn't notice the incorrect spelling til after I have already registered.

In Oakland, Randy Moss was a washed up has-been, too. Then he went to NE, and for the next 3 seasons, made Thompson look like Judge Parins.

We know what we get out of bums like Walden, Zombo, Jones, So'oto...NOTHING. Merriman, when healthy, has the ability to be "lights out."

[LegandofthePack15]

I doubt Perry will turn out to be a bum...

I hope not.

[KYPack]

Sorry to disappoint you but the missionaries died off but still have a bad legacy in the islands.

Please visit me during the pro bowl -- mai tais and bikinis await!

& a little of "da kine", if ya don't mind.

Primo will do for the brews.

Sometimes old broken down football players do make an impact, but it's rare braddah.

So for this round I'll side with the lynch mob chasing you around with the noose.

Another aspect of this is time, we really don't have the time to evaluate SM at this point in the season.

I side with brother Guiness, he's gonna get signed after week 1.

Nobody is gonna pay his Bill's deal, he'll be lucky to get Ced's type of contract this year.

[ThunderDan]

In Oakland, Randy Moss was a washed up has-been, too. Then he went to NE, and for the next 3 seasons, made Thompson look like Judge Parins.



Let's look at those three years.

Moss
48 games, 250 rec, 3,765 yards, 47 TDs (23 in 2007 :shock:)

Jennings
45 games, 201 rec, 3,325 yards, 25 TDs
Driver
47 games, 226 rec, 3,121 yards, 13 TDs


Where do Moss's catches come from? Do you stunt Jennings or Nelson's development? In 2007 we were an OT away from the Super Bowl how does Moss help us in 07?

Look at that great chemistry Moss and BF had up in MINN. Maybe that would ahve happened in GB also.

[rbaloha1]

& a little of "da kine", if ya don't mind.

Primo will do for the brews.

Sometimes old broken down football players do make an impact, but it's rare braddah.

So for this round I'll side with the lynch mob chasing you around with the noose.

Another aspect of this is time, we really don't have the time to evaluate SM at this point in the season.

I side with brother Guiness, he's gonna get signed after week 1.

Nobody is gonna pay his Bill's deal, he'll be lucky to get Ced's type of contract this year.

Braddah KY,

I hate for infom you but no mo primo brah. get plenty da kine tho. one braddah was talkin bout gentleman club in iowa -- braddah the whole isalnd is a gentleman's.

braddah ky -- brah make it to the land of paradise. take care you braddah.

[rbaloha1]

Let's look at those three years.

Moss
48 games, 250 rec, 3,765 yards, 47 TDs (23 in 2007 :shock:)

Jennings
45 games, 201 rec, 3,325 yards, 25 TDs
Driver
47 games, 226 rec, 3,121 yards, 13 TDs


Where do Moss's catches come from? Do you stunt Jennings or Nelson's development? In 2007 we were an OT away from the Super Bowl how does Moss help us in 07?

Look at that great chemistry Moss and BF had up in MINN. Maybe that would ahve happened in GB also.

Here we go with stats again. Moss's presence commands double teams and coverage rolled his way -- opening it up for other players.

Just like Jennings and Finley forcing double teams allowing Nelson to put up great numbers. Nelson is not a number one as evidenced in the KC game.

TT was out foxed by the Pats in acquiring Moss and not signing Gonzales.

BTW in the name of declining players --- Charles Woodson.

[ThunderDan]

Here we go with stats again. Moss's presence commands double teams and coverage rolled his way -- opening it up for other players.

Just like Jennings and Finley forcing double teams allowing Nelson to put up great numbers. Nelson is not a number one as evidenced in the KC game.

TT was out foxed by the Pats in acquiring Moss and not signing Gonzales.

BTW in the name of declining players --- Charles Woodson.

Stats seemed to me a better way to discuss actual performance other than someone saying, "I got a feeling this guy who hasn't played well for the last 4 years and has an injury history will be lights out in 2012. Let's sign him."

[mraynrand]

In Oakland, Randy Moss was a washed up has-been, too. Then he went to NE, and for the next 3 seasons, made Thompson look like Judge Parins.

You've pretty much achieved Troll Status with that one.

[rbaloha1]

Stats seemed to me a better way to discuss actual performance other than someone saying, "I got a feeling this guy who hasn't played well for the last 4 years and has an injury history will be lights out in 2012. Let's sign him."

Where did I ever say to sign SM? My position is for SM to pass a physical and a workout/tryout before any non guaranteed contract is offered. Unsure of the exact timing but its an absolute requirement. Should SM decline -- aloha.

[rbaloha1]

You've pretty much achieved Troll Status with that one.

No be scared braddah! Keep posting -- do not be scared of the longwinded posters.

[ThunderDan]

Where did I ever say to sign SM? My position is for SM to pass a physical and a workout/tryout before any non guaranteed contract is offered. Unsure of the exact timing but its an absolute requirement. Should SM decline -- aloha.

If they sign him before week 1 of the season his 2012 salary is guaranteed. No one will touch SM until after week 1 if at all.

[rbaloha1]

If they sign him before week 1 of the season his 2012 salary is guaranteed. No one will touch SM until after week 1 if at all.

Assuming this is true, probably no NFL team touches SM prior to game one.

SM may have to void his contract prior to game one if he is serious about playing in the 2012 season. Believe T Jackson was willing to void his contract to go to another team.

[Guiness]

Assuming this is true, probably no NFL team touches SM prior to game one.

SM may have to void his contract prior to game one if he is serious about playing in the 2012 season. Believe T Jackson was willing to void his contract to go to another team.


I'm pretty sure once he is released and clears waivers, he's an FA and can negotiate with anyone. Since he's got 4 years of service, I don't even think there's a waiver period, he's automatically an FA when released. The contract he had with the Bills is history.

The problem with signing him now is that if he's on the roster for the first week-end of the season, his contract is guaranteed for the year. If signed after that, it's a week-by-week basis, meaning if they kept him for 2 games, he'd get paid (and count against the cap) for 2/16 of the vet minimum.

Can anyone correct me on this? I think I've got it right.

[Lurker64]

The problem with signing him now is that if he's on the roster for the first week-end of the season, his contract is guaranteed for the year. If signed after that, it's a week-by-week basis, meaning if they kept him for 2 games, he'd get paid (and count against the cap) for 2/16 of the vet minimum.

Can anyone correct me on this? I think I've got it right.

This is correct, and this is why no team is banging down Merriman's door right now, and why neither he, nor his agent, are worried yet. Whether or not he can help a team, if he ends up getting hurt or sucks teams would rather pay him 5/16 or 7/16 or whatever of the vet minimum instead of 16/16ths of the vet minimum.

Being on the team for the last week of the preseason isn't really going to help much, anyway.

[Carolina_Packer]

Yea hes just what we need! :eyes:

We need a washed up player? Who knew? :-) Yeah, he's done. Can't stay healthy. It would totally surprise me if the Packers went after him, especially when they are trying to bring along Perry and have some other guys they have developed as well.

[rbaloha1]

#54 and Walden are good backups. Maybe Merriman is unnecessary.

However if SM is available for the NFL minimum at some point SM warrants serious consideration. SM may not consider the packers due to the current state of affairs.

[mraynrand]

#54 and Walden are good backups. Maybe Merriman is unnecessary.

However if SM is available for the NFL minimum at some point SM warrants serious consideration.

If the Packers lose three or four more linebackers to season ending injury, I bet maybe they think about SM

[Guiness]

If the Packers lose three or four more linebackers to season ending injury, I bet maybe they think about SM

I dunno. In another thread someone said they'd like to see Bush in a DB/LB hybrid role and Raji has shown he can drop into coverage and intercept the ball. I think those are both better options.

[rbaloha1]

I dunno. In another thread someone said they'd like to see Bush in a DB/LB hybrid role and Raji has shown he can drop into coverage and intercept the ball. I think those are both better options.

These 2 guys are not legit lbs due to size and the skill set to play lb. Raji dropping into coverage on a consistent basis is not a winning situation. Bush is a good edge blitzer from the corner not from a lb position.

[run pMc]

Very surprised if TT brings him in, but I'm sure SM's on the scouts' radar.
His injury history and lack of production in recent years makes him a huge risk IMO. Zombo is likely a roster cut and Neal on the bubble because of injuries and suspensions, and the entire Justin Harrell experiment still comes up. Assuming TT has learned his lesson, I'd be very surprised if he looks at SM...barring a sudden drop off in production or a (God forbid) a rash of injuries to the OLB's.

I think the pass rush will be better than last year (can it be worse?) and they like what they have in the OLB depth with CM3, Perry, Walden and Moses (and Jones in a pinch).
So even if SM still has something left in the tank -- which seems to be up for debate here -- it's unclear if it's better than what we have, especially since he wouldn't be much immediate help without a TC to pick up Dom's schemes.

I say Horseman, pass by.


(Not to be snarky, but it's just as easy to cherry pick historically bad examples of FA signings/late roster additions. It's certainly tempting to remember the ones that work out. I'm not sure anyone recalls the Derrick Frost punting era with much fondness, or misses Mark Roman/Marquand Manuel.
If that's not convincing enough: Joe Johnson anyone?)

[pbmax]

Reminds me of the heady days of the Hardy Nickerson or Seth Joyner signings.

[rbaloha1]

Very surprised if TT brings him in, but I'm sure SM's on the scouts' radar.
His injury history and lack of production in recent years makes him a huge risk IMO. Zombo is likely a roster cut and Neal on the bubble because of injuries and suspensions, and the entire Justin Harrell experiment still comes up. Assuming TT has learned his lesson, I'd be very surprised if he looks at SM...barring a sudden drop off in production or a (God forbid) a rash of injuries to the OLB's.

I think the pass rush will be better than last year (can it be worse?) and they like what they have in the OLB depth with CM3, Perry, Walden and Moses (and Jones in a pinch).
So even if SM still has something left in the tank -- which seems to be up for debate here -- it's unclear if it's better than what we have, especially since he wouldn't be much immediate help without a TC to pick up Dom's schemes.

I say Horseman, pass by.


(Not to be snarky, but it's just as easy to cherry pick historically bad examples of FA signings/late roster additions. It's certainly tempting to remember the ones that work out. I'm not sure anyone recalls the Derrick Frost punting era with much fondness, or misses Mark Roman/Marquand Manuel.
If that's not convincing enough: Joe Johnson anyone?)

Valid points. The poor fa signings are more in the past than recent signings. IMO SM is currently moot.

[Guiness]

Reminds me of the heady days of the Hardy Nickerson or Seth Joyner signings.

You just had to bring up Hardy...

Joe Johnson worked out better, at least for the most part he just sat down, and we didn't have to watch him start 16 games...

[mraynrand]

These 2 guys are not legit lbs due to size and the skill set to play lb. Raji dropping into coverage on a consistent basis is not a winning situation. Bush is a good edge blitzer from the corner not from a lb position.

I gave you positive rep points for having the tenacity of a dachshund. Never give up, never give in!!

[Patler]

Reminds me of the heady days of the Hardy Nickerson or Seth Joyner signings.

The guy that really aggravated me was Matt O'Dwyer. He had been injured the two previous seasons, and TT signed him for a "tryout", saying O'Dwyer claimed to finally be healthy and wanted to resume his career. Since GB needed guards, TT said it made sense to see if O'Dwyer had anything left. After all, he had started over 100 games in his first 8 years,before being injured. He came in, was absolutely awful, and was cut early by the Packers. Then, O'Dwyer had the gall to file an injury claim against the Packers, claiming he was injured in TC, even though he had missed no time. Wanted his full salary (or something like that) for being injured while under contract.

Maybe that experience soured TT on signing injured veterans.

[Guiness]

I gave you positive rep points for having the tenacity of a dachshund. Never give up, never give in!!

I was looking for a tongue in cheek smiley, but everything I found leaned too much towards porn...

[Lurker64]

The guy that really aggravated me was Matt O'Dwyer. He had been injured the two previous seasons, and TT signed him for a "tryout", saying O'Dwyer claimed to finally be healthy and wanted to resume his career. Since GB needed guards, TT said it made sense to see if O'Dwyer had anything left. After all, he had started over 100 games in his first 8 years,before being injured. He came in, was absolutely awful, and was cut early by the Packers. Then, O'Dwyer had the gall to file an injury claim against the Packers, claiming he was injured in TC, even though he had missed no time. Wanted his full salary (or something like that) for being injured while under contract.

Maybe that experience soured TT on signing injured veterans.

There's also the issue that Green Bay's need for guards in 2005 (after the departure of Wahle and Rivera) was much more urgent than Green Bay's need for pass rushers in 2012 (after the addition of promising young players like Perry and Moses.)

[rbaloha1]

I was looking for a tongue in cheek smiley, but everything I found leaned too much towards porn...

Thanks for the compliment. My fan mail is growing -- ha ha:flag:

[Guiness]

Merriman still out there looking for work. I'm a little surprised his phone hasn't rung yet. Any significant LB injuries? Here's a recent interview with him, he's says he's ready to go, and wants SF to call!

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/09/19/nfl-free-agent-linebacker-shawne-merriman-waits/

[Guiness]

Well, he gets picked up...by Buffalo.

FP on the story is about right "That is like love that is found at 3am at the bar, both sides are desperate. Match made in heaven."

[3irty1]

Shawne Merriman has nothing left. Its not the roids or the scheme either, its the injuries. Pass rushers who ruin their achillies never recover their explosiveness. At this point kicking the tires on Merriman is like kicking the tires on Justin Harrell.

[mraynrand]

Shawne Merriman has nothing left. Its not the roids or the scheme either, its the injuries. Pass rushers who ruin their achillies never recover their explosiveness. At this point kicking the tires on Merriman is like kicking the tires on Justin Harrell.


Hey! Justin Harrell has a HUGE upside. Bring him in for a look-see!