So, what does this season mean to you?

[Patler]

The debacle that has become the NFL this year is really no different than the season in which replacement players played. I watched that year, for something to do, but it was largely meaningless to me because of the situation. The teams playing simply were not the teams of the NFL during the strike, and when the real teams came back, it wasn't the same because of the influence of replacement player games and the shortened season.

The same is true this year. With questionable games for at least one-fourth of the season next week, the season loses all legitimacy.

The teams and players are right, but the game is not NFL football. It has about as much legitimacy for me as arena football or any other bastardization of pro football. You can not watch a game this year without questionable calls or actions by the officials that have significant impact on the game outcome. It happens game after game. Bad calls are just a small part of it. The inconsistency and hesitancy make games hard to watch. The mistakes make outcomes farcical.

The season has lost meaning for me.

[Joemailman]

I think it's still salvageable. Largely though, I think you're right so far. It doesn't feel like NFL football.

[mmmdk]

The NFL 2012-12 season is forever tarnished; let Sealiars win it as they fucking deserve it.

[mmmdk]

Nobody should earn the Lombardy Trophy this season; instead award the Golden Godell Trophy to the Seattle Sealiars !

[Patler]

I've been on the winning side of bad calls. When the dust settles, it never feels very good. I have almost felt better, or at least more honorable, when on the losing side.

[KYPack]

This whole deal might turn out a big positive. When our stubby coach gets up in front of the guys and gives the old "let's take this shit into our hands so the refs can't screw us" pep talk, he's gonna have 60 guys that will be nodding their heads.

With clenched jaws.

if you could buy emotions, any coach out there would go buy a ton of anger.

Well, the boys are pissed now, so let's channel it and get after 'em!

[Patler]

This whole deal might turn out a big positive. When our stubby coach gets up in front of the guys and gives the old "let's take this shit into our hands so the refs can't screw us" pep talk, he's gonna have 60 guys that will be nodding their heads.

With clenched jaws.

if you could buy emotions, any coach out there would go buy a ton of anger.

Well, the boys are pissed now, so let's channel it and get after 'em!

I don't mean the impact of last night for the Packers, I mean your feelings for the season as a whole. If the replacement officials stay, even if the Packers go on to win the Super Bowl, the season will have an asterisk in my mind.

[wootah]

True KY. Soccer coaching legend Rinus Michels aid in his book on teambuilding that nothing brings a group together like having a common enemy. I think we've got that one covered now.

[ThunderDan]

All I can think as a season ticket holder is if this costs the Packers home playoff games that I should go to I will be pissed.

[mraynrand]

I don't mean the impact of last night for the Packers, I mean your feelings for the season as a whole. If the replacement officials stay, even if the Packers go on to win the Super Bowl, the season will have an asterisk in my mind.

Hardly.* No one will care, at all, unless something like what happened last night happens in a playoff game. The replacement players were a whole different animal.



*Well, I can't say what will remain in your mind, but I doubt many will even remember the officials several years from now. Do you remember the last time there were replacement officials?

[denverYooper]

The NFL 2012-12 season is forever tarnished; let Sealiars win it as they fucking deserve it.

They won't.

[mmmdk]

All I can think as a season ticket holder is if this costs the Packers home playoff games that I should go to I will be pissed.

It will.

[mmmdk]

They won't.

Bounty Hunters won it,
Neo England Spygaters has won several
& why not Sealiars?

[denverYooper]

It will.

That's part of it. This is a big conference game against another potential playoff team. This very likely has implications down the road. I think that the Packers will be "fine" in the end and make the playoffs because they have a good team but there is a very good chance this affects positions and other teams as well.

[pbmax]

It is still to be determined. The narrative about the replacement players in 87 is that it was disastrous to watch but people still tuned in, the NFL looked like it could continue on and make enough money to continue to squeeze the players. The reality is that the TV ratings spiked in the first week and then started to fall until Week 3 of replacement ball was falling behind the normal TV rating trendline. I think I have read that by that third week, there was a 20% decline in audience, but that the relative success (or perhaps lack of failure) of the first two weeks really discouraged the players, who started to trickle back in which ended the strike.

The NFL might have been tarnishing its Shield for the past three weeks, but this was the first game where a call (or three) led directly to a poor outcome. This has the media all clamoring for the end of the replacements. But its only one significant blow. It might weaken the softest of the owners (let's call them the Talc of owners). But the medium liners (Apatite) aren't going to cave on one bad game outcome. And the hardliners (Corundum or Diamond) aren't going anywhere.

If there is another terrible outcome in the next two weeks, then I think the season will be considered similar to a strike year and the owners will be in trouble (both bargaining and reputation). And talk about a lost season might start. But if it improves without calamity, this will be considered a horrible aberration not applicable to the rest of the games, no matter how many times teams get 4 timeouts.

Not many people hold the Redskins 3 Super Bowl wins against them even though each was in a strike shortened year.

[mraynrand]

There are a lot of owners in the NFC who are probably pretty happy that the Packers lost.*




*Won't hear them complaining much

[Smidgeon]

I wrote this after the 9ers game (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?24427-0-1-and-the-sky-is-falling&p=682936&viewfull=1#post682936):

4) I'm starting to think that all games with replacement refs need asterisks. No, I'm definitely not saying the refs cost the Pack the game. What I am saying is that games are often decided by a small number of big plays. Considering how many missed calls and wrong calls they had on big plays, who knows how it would have played out if they'd been consistent and accurate all the way through? I'm not bemoaning the loss. The 49ers played a great game and the Pack didn't. I just realized the impact of the refs is such that you don't know for sure--either way--if the correct calls would have changed the swing of things.

I'll still watch the Packers games because the NFL can't take that away from me. But there are asterisks on this season. I had just hoped the NFL wouldn't squander one of AR's and Clay's prime years... Too late.

[mraynrand]

Will be interesting to see if Jed York or Bill Bidwill get up in arms*







*they probably don't want Seattle winning

[mraynrand]

I wrote this after the 9ers game (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?24427-0-1-and-the-sky-is-falling&p=682936&viewfull=1#post682936):

[I]4) I'm starting to think that all games with replacement refs need asterisks. No, I'm definitely not saying the refs cost the Pack the game.

I stopped reading after the bolded bullshit*







*seriously, you don't think the refs cost them the game? What color is the sky in your world?

[Freak Out]

It truly appears to be incompetence on the refs part, but if it continues the whispers of "fix" will rise and then it's over. With the extra times outs and challenges...the numerous phantom calls to keep drives alive. At some point it will rear it's ugly head.

Like Harvey said....I'll keep watching the Packers but won't waste time on other games.

[ThunderDan]

It's being reported that the "touchdown" saved the bookies $150 Million last night.

[Fritz]

I thought that the replacement refs would not affect people's perception of the legitimacy of the season until or unless one specific call cost an NFL team a win. And it happened last night.

But PB brings up a good point. Will it have to happen a couple more times before people really do stop paying attention to the games?

This is the real problem. People can bitch all they want, but if they keep watching, the NFL has lost nothing tangible. Thus they have no reason to move toward the "real" refs' desires.

On the other hand, however, I have never heard television announcers so blatantly and genuinely disgusted by any aspect of the game as the two last night were about the refereeing, particularly the final two calls on the Packers. Surely Chucky Gruden's popped-balloon demeanor, his genuine disgust at the call, cannot be good for the NFL. Cuz the NFL needs t.v. - and needs t.v. to legitimize the product.

I wonder if the NFL will secretly send some directives to the networks who show the games, asking them to refrain from being so critical of the officials.

Me, I'm still watching. So in answer to Patler's question, while I am disappointed in the NFL's hardline tactics, if the Packers win it all I'll feel even better that they did so despite the Seattle ripoff.

And besides, with the "regular" refs, the Lions lost a game against da Bears - what, two years ago? - in which Calvin Johnson was not awarded a t.d. on an obvious t.d. catch. So the refs cost the Leos a game, there, too. Thus I do not discount the validity of this season, despite my disappointment in the shitty refereeing and the Packers' loss as a direct result of it.

[ThunderDan]

Fritz I disagree with your last point. The refs in the Leo's game properly enforced a shitty new rule. Just like the tuck game. This was a complete fuck up. The rules were not adhered to.

[mmmdk]

It's being reported that the "touchdown" saved the bookies $150 Million last night.

Watch Scorsese and you'll know how America was built and still is...BIG ITALY!

[mmmdk]

It's being reported that the "touchdown" saved the bookies $150 Million last night.

Capisce!

[wist43]

We might could make the playoffs, but it's going to be tough - I have 3 automatic losses already pencilled in, Houston, Arizona, and the Giants.

Those 3 losses have us at 5 losses. A split with Minnesota and Detroit are certainly possibilities - that's 7 losses... one more trip up after that, and you're looking at next years draft.

The Packers simply aren't a very good team. It's gonna be a long season.

[denverYooper]

We might could make the playoffs, but it's going to be tough - I have 3 automatic losses already pencilled in, Houston, Arizona, and the Giants.

Those 3 losses have us at 5 losses. A split with Minnesota and Detroit are certainly possibilities - that's 7 losses... one more trip up after that, and you're looking at next years draft.

The Packers simply aren't a very good team. It's gonna be a long season.

They'll win 2 of those.

[mmmdk]

They'll win 2 of those.

To what end?

[wist43]

They'll win 2 of those.

Houston is going to absolutely destroy us - don't even see that game being competitive. Don't see us having much of chance against the Giants either. The Giants are light years better than we are.

As for Arizona - they play hellish defense, we won't be able to move the ball against them at all... their offense isn't much, but then again our defense isn't either.

We might have a chance against Arizona, but beating them in Arizona will be a tall order for this Packers team.

[ThunderDan]

Houston is going to absolutely destroy us - don't even see that game being competitive. Don't see us having much of chance against the Giants either. The Giants are light years better than we are.

As for Arizona - they play hellish defense, we won't be able to move the ball against them at all... their offense isn't much, but then again our defense isn't either.

We might have a chance against Arizona, but beating them in Arizona will be a tall order for this Packers team.

The ARI game better be in GB because I have tickets at home for the game.

[denverYooper]

Houston is going to absolutely destroy us - don't even see that game being competitive. Don't see us having much of chance against the Giants either. The Giants are light years better than we are.

As for Arizona - they play hellish defense, we won't be able to move the ball against them at all... their offense isn't much, but then again our defense isn't either.

We might have a chance against Arizona, but beating them in Arizona will be a tall order for this Packers team.

The Giants are still all over the place, as they always are. Depends on if you get Eli chucking INTs left and right or other Eli. Houston is pretty good but to say that game won't be competitive is ridiculous. Arizona does indeed have a good D, as I felt Seattle did, but their offense is worse than Seattle's.

In years other than last year, Green Bay has typically started slower and gotten better throughout the year. I won't be surprised to see it happen again.

[RashanGary]

I'm not going to watch any of the games this week. This will be maybe 1 of 5 Packer games I've missed in 10 years. Some people will be doing it also. Hopefully the ratings dip a little, the media starts talking about it more, and more people join in with the momentum going in the favor of the fans.

I'd love to see the arrogant owners get beat.


And for anyone who's ever watched Game of Thrones, it's not the king (or commissioner in this case) who's making these decisions. It's the people who pay him. The power is in the money, and people who love power will do anything to get more of it.

The NFL is betting they can tax the people more without a rebellion. Time will tell. I've always been a fan of the regular people, and if they knew it, if they solidified, they do have the power, all of it. Without someone tilling the fields, scrubbing the floors, building the mansions, those who sit on the iron chairs have nothing. They have that power because they're willing to watch people suffer, and do not care. The people suffering don't understand because they couldn't imagine the true cold, callous nature of people who's only motivation is power. And so the cold, power hungry people control the rest of us. It's been that way forever. It's the way it's meant to be. The hard road, the road of work, pride, values. . . . That's the way it's meant to be. If not for the sacrafice it means to keep ones honor, there would be no such thing as honor. While tho powerful spend their lives filling a hole that will always be empty, the honorable live full, satisfying lives where they put their energy where their hearts are.

Same time, nothing satisfies me more than to see these disgusting people lose their power. It's the closest thing they'll ever feel to losing a loved one. Except it's power and money and it's not sadness. It's squirming, like a disgusting villan.

[wist43]

The ARI game better be in GB because I have tickets at home for the game.

lol... so it is.

Won't matter - they play crazy good defense, and our OL is a joke. Nobody respects our run game - just knock one of the ballarina's into Benson on the way to the QB, and that running play is dead. Every team we play now, will just sit their safeties over the top and come hell bent for leather after Rodgers.

What are the odds Rodgers makes it thru the season alive unless MM abandons his bombs away game plans?? Arizona's offense sucks to be sure, but our defense does too... I'll be surprised if we win that game.

[denverYooper]

lol... so it is.

Won't matter - they play crazy good defense, and our OL is a joke. Nobody respects our run game - just knock one of the ballarina's into Benson on the way to the QB, and that running play is dead. Every team we play now, will just sit their safeties over the top and come hell bent for leather after Rodgers.

What are the odds Rodgers makes it thru the season alive unless MM abandons his bombs away game plans?? Arizona's offense sucks to be sure, but our defense does too... I'll be surprised if we win that game.

This just in: there's reason to believe that Green Bay's defense is good this year.

[Joemailman]

Arizona's offense sucks to be sure, but our defense does too... I'll be surprised if we win that game.

Aren't you generally surprised any time the Packers win a game?

[wist43]

This just in: there's reason to believe that Green Bay's defense is good this year.

They're better than last year - but that's not saying much. They were one of the worst defenses in league history last year.

I like the players TT brought in... but Capers is the DC - can't overcome that. He should be doing commercials for hair spray paint.

[Patler]

Everyone is focusing on last night. To me it is much broader than that. Even if the Packer loss is the only one for which you can point directly to the officials (and I am not sure it is), their actions in many, many other games have altered the way the games have been played. In those too, they may have altered the outcome, just in a less direct way.

Simply a shortened season would not have bothered me. I grew up watching shorter seasons. So long as it is the same game, it doesn't matter to me. Shorten the season, lengthen the season, expand the playoffs, change the playoff rules, change the playing rules (as has been done many times) I don't care. But when you start including results of games not played in the manner intended, the overall effect is no longer legitimate. Next weekend 25% of the season becomes illegitimate. In my mind, the season is irreparably altered by the illegitimacy.

[RashanGary]

And their greatest feat is their ability to pledge the peoples loyalty to them, to give everything without question because most people have values.

[mmmdk]

Unless Packers wins the super bowl then this is a total wash of a season.

[channtheman]

Houston is going to absolutely destroy us - don't even see that game being competitive. Don't see us having much of chance against the Giants either. The Giants are light years better than we are.

As for Arizona - they play hellish defense, we won't be able to move the ball against them at all... their offense isn't much, but then again our defense isn't either.

We might have a chance against Arizona, but beating them in Arizona will be a tall order for this Packers team.

That's why they play the game! The Packers will be competitive and be in the playoff hunt at the end of the year.

[mmmdk]

I always throw $$ at Packers gear every season, buying online, and I pay dearly with fucking costums'n'shit but NFL [hence Packers] won't get no fucking $$ from me this season. Sorry!

I'm glad I reluctantly postponed my Lambeau return for 2013 and the new stadium stuff.

[ThunderDan]

I always throw $$ at Packers gear every season, buying online, and I pay dearly with fucking costums'n'shit but NFL [hence Packers] won't get no fucking $$ from me this season. Sorry!

I'm glad I reluctantly postponed my Lambeau return for 2013 and the new stadium stuff.

Please let me know when you are coming in 2013. I would love to grab a brew before, during and after the game.

[denverYooper]

Everyone is focusing on last night. To me it is much broader than that. Even if the Packer loss is the only one for which you can point directly to the officials (and I am not sure it is), their actions in many, many other games have altered the way the games have been played. In those too, they may have altered the outcome, just in a less direct way.

Simply a shortened season would not have bothered me. I grew up watching shorter seasons. So long as it is the same game, it doesn't matter to me. Shorten the season, lengthen the season, expand the playoffs, change the playoff rules, change the playing rules (as has been done many times) I don't care. But when you start including results of games not played in the manner intended, the overall effect is no longer legitimate. Next weekend 25% of the season becomes illegitimate. In my mind, the season is irreparably altered by the illegitimacy.

I agree. I have heard multiple players on record (Larry Fitzgerald on the radio recently) saying that the players' biggest issue is that the refs are not consistent and don't communicate, and those things really mess with the flow of the game. The players, to an extent, get used to the things that will be called during the game and often the regular refs will issue them warnings for things that they might be doing away from the play, but that would get called if the play came their way. So now the players, many of whom will adjust accordingly to the way a particular crew calls the game don't have any idea what to expect wrt the way a game is called.

So bad calls happen with regular refs but they're more rare and mitigated somewhat by proper communication and protocol. The big thing that seems to be affecting games, though, on a more systematic basis, is the lack of consistency from the refs. Put more bluntly, it seems that outright thuggery is paying off a lot more often right now.

[Smidgeon]

I stopped reading after the bolded bullshit*







*seriously, you don't think the refs cost them the game? What color is the sky in your world?

The part you stopped reading after is the part I wrote after the 49ers game. Not after last night's game. I was reinforcing the point that I've been questioning since the beginning the validity of games reffed by replacements.

As for last night's game, the refs clearly took the game from the Pack. I haven't been upset by a game this much since the Cardinal's/Packers game--and that one was bigger only because it was a playoff game.

[mraynrand]

The part you stopped reading after is the part I wrote after the 49ers game.

oops! My mistake. Apologies!*






*Unlike the NFL, I can admit a mistake!

[mmmdk]

Please let me know when you are coming in 2013. I would love to grab a brew before, during and after the game.

Thank you, I'm actually pretty civil in person [not Packer game days though]! And ditto over & I'll be at Lambeau in 2013! I'd even hug the fuck out Madtown or B [the nutty Ram, Pats, Packers & Badgers fan] :lol:

BTW, I'm American too hence the fucking craziness...add half a Dane and you're in for hell :lol: :lol:

[MJZiggy]

Patler, not just in the Packer game, but there have been enough crap calls that have messed with games (not even the big drama plays, but those drive killers or ones that can tip momentum in a game) that I am forced to kind of look at this season like that of a junior college league. If we can't trust that the rules as we and the teams understand them are being applied consistently, then we may as well flip a coin on any given play to decide if there should be a call and on whom. Obviously, the officiating has already had an affect on the outcome of games and has created possible playoff implications. I love my Packers, but will stream them and will not buy merchandise that profits the NFL.

[Fritz]

Since I no longer know how to start a new thread, I'll hijack this one. I would like to know what people think of this year's team. I am oddly at peace. I like the improved defense very much, and I believe the offense will come around. I agonized about that horrid defense last year. I feel better about this year's team than last year's.

[mmmdk]

I need new Packer socks...WTF am I going to do?

[mraynrand]

I need new Packer socks...WTF am I going to do?

Get some new threads?

[denverYooper]

Since I no longer know how to start a new thread, I'll hijack this one. I would like to know what people think of this year's team. I am oddly at peace. I like the improved defense very much, and I believe the offense will come around. I agonized about that horrid defense last year. I feel better about this year's team than last year's.

It's always more comfortable to start with lowered expectations. Wist full well grasps the inner peace that comes with the cynic's zen.

The offense will come around with the return of the regular refs. They don't deal well with chaos. The first 4 games of the season are always kind of chaotic anyway, with teams are still bringing out their new personnel and plays and team altering injuries are still occurring in numbers. With Green Bay, they're dealing with a new center and a lot of shuffling on the coaching staff due to Philbin's ascension.

[mmmdk]

Get some new threads?

That's a meta reply - I like it! :tup:

[sheepshead]

Stay healthy, make the playoffs. Most of us thought we'd loose 4-5 games anyway.

[wist43]

It's always more comfortable to start with lowered expectations. Wist full well grasps the inner peace that comes with the cynic's zen.

The offense will come around with the return of the regular refs. They don't deal well with chaos. The first 4 games of the season are always kind of chaotic anyway, with teams are still bringing out their new personnel and plays and team altering injuries are still occurring in numbers. With Green Bay, they're dealing with a new center and a lot of shuffling on the coaching staff due to Philbin's ascension.

lol... the path to inner peace - smoke some heavy shit man, and mellow out!!! ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlYsIrusMB4

[mission]

Since I no longer know how to start a new thread, I'll hijack this one. I would like to know what people think of this year's team. I am oddly at peace. I like the improved defense very much, and I believe the offense will come around. I agonized about that horrid defense last year. I feel better about this year's team than last year's.

All of that. I agree.

I like this team more... does that sound weird? They're 1-2.

[MJZiggy]

All of that. I agree.

I like this team more... does that sound weird? They're 1-2.

Actually, I've heard we're the only team in NFL History to start a season with a record of 1-1-WTF.

[Pugger]

Bounty Hunters won it,
Neo England Spygaters has won several
& why not Sealiars?

They're gonna need a much more potent offense if they want to do anything this year. The way they were bottling up Aaron and our offense in the first half on Monday night they should have scored more than 14 measly points.

[Pugger]

That's why they play the game! The Packers will be competitive and be in the playoff hunt at the end of the year.

Shhh! Don't ruin it for wist and be positive about this season. We are 1-2 so of course its all over now. :roll: