Shame on the angry mob: golden tates TD was legit

[3irty1]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/shame-the-angry-mob-golden-tates-touchdown-was-legit/17706/

Thought this was an interesting read. I'd like to see what others think.

[Teamcheez1]

If you subscribe to their argument, any time a receiver has one hand touching the ball when a defensive player goes to the ground with an interception, it would be dual possession.

Preposterous.

[KYPack]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/shame-the-angry-mob-golden-tates-touchdown-was-legit/17706/

Thought this was an interesting read. I'd like to see what others think.

Cold Hard Football Facts needs to change it's name to Lukewarm Soft Football Opinions.

Golden Tate didn't have the first catch or a simultaneous catch.

He was an interested interloper.

I do agree that hoping for a PI call on a Hail Mary ain't gonna happen.

There is so much interference on Hail Mary's, the games would never end if you called all the PI.

CHFF swung and missed on this one.

[Patler]

I didn't even bother reading past his discussion of frame 1. Tate touching the ball with the finger tips of his left hand constitutes control? It would take a lot of stickum for that to happen. Jennings has the ball between two hands, stopping its free fall. If not for Jennings controlling the ball, it would have simply glanced off Tate's fingertips. In frame 1, Jennings has control of the ball, Tate has contact with the ball. They are not the same.

The rest is irrelevant by their own interpretations of the rules.

[George Cumby]

I didn't even bother reading past his discussion of frame 1. Tate touching the ball with the finger tips of his left hand constitutes control? It would take a lot of stickum for that to happen. Jennings has the ball between two hands, stopping its free fall. If not for Jennings controlling the ball, it would have simply glanced off Tate's fingertips. In frame 1, Jennings has control of the ball, Tate has contact with the ball. They are not the same.

The rest is irrelevant by their own interpretations of the rules.

Yeah, what the really rational guy, said.

[sharpe1027]

The rest is irrelevant by their own interpretations of the rules.

There's a lot of wasted analysis on a simple issue by the few trying to legitimize the catch.

[Zool]

2 hands on the ball vs 2 fingertips on the same hand touching the ball. The guy is making the counter argument just to get hits.

Don't bother reading it.

[mmmdk]

2 hands on the ball vs 2 fingertips on the same hand touching the ball. The guy is making the counter argument just to get hits.

Don't bother reading it.

I won't.

[LegandofthePack15]

There is so much interference on Hail Mary's, the games would never end if you called all the PI.


Just b/c its a Hail Mary doesn't mean anarchy is the name of the game. I can understand no call on so-so contact, but Shields was pushed down blatantly. Refs need to make the call. If it was Shields doing what Tate did, there would've been a million flags.

[Patler]

Just b/c its a Hail Mary doesn't mean anarchy is the name of the game. I can understand no call on so-so contact, but Shields was pushed down blatantly. Refs need to make the call. If it was Shields doing what Tate did, there would've been a million flags.

Agreed. There is a difference between bumping and shoving for position, and knocking a guy completely to the ground. No body wants ticky-tack calls to be made, but a player also shouldn't be allowed to simply knock a competitor completely out of the play.

[Pugger]

Cold Hard Football Facts needs to change it's name to Lukewarm Soft Football Opinions.

Golden Tate didn't have the first catch or a simultaneous catch.

He was an interested interloper.

I do agree that hoping for a PI call on a Hail Mary ain't gonna happen.

There is so much interference on Hail Mary's, the games would never end if you called all the PI.

CHFF swung and missed on this one.

The game would have been over had they called OPI on that play.

[OS PA]

CHFF also fails to recognize that some of the gold you see "between" Jennings hands in the second frame is the tips of his gloves rather than his helmet. Which completely undermines their argument. Also failed to be mentioned is Jennings possessing the ball on more of his body than Tate. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the definition of possession when in the endzone is different than the definition listed in argument. Also why has nobody made the argument that a receiver must maintain possession through the ground? If this is the case, as possession is being determined while they're falling, Tate has already lost the catch to Jennings who maintains more contact.

Also none of his one handed possession examples come anywhere near this catch. They don't show any defenders touching the ball or possessing the ball. One handed catches do happen every now and then, but they are usually in the open field. I'd make an argument that Jennings possessed the ball through Tates hand, like the catch a few years ago made by Alabama's Tyrone Prothro http://youtu.be/Y7DSmFvDoYk.

[mraynrand]

"I will tell you I've worked over 450 games in this league. I have never seen a simultaneous catch," Hochuli said. "To get four hands on the ball at the same time is a pretty unusual situation.
"I've seen simultaneous recoveries. That's not uncommon. You un-pile the players, they're going after a loose ball and there are two guys who are completely wrapped around the football, and you have a simultaneous recovery. You're going to give the ball to the offense.
"But a simultaneous catch is a hard thing to have."

'nuff said

[denverYooper]

I saw the author and scrolled through the pictures this morning. Once I saw the absurdly grainy closeup, the gig was up on his borderline conspiracy-theoretic exercise.

I have entertained the notion that the call played to everyone's expectation that the replacements would screw up the end of a game and so amplified the beliefs of Packers fans everywhere but I have yet to see a truly compelling case arguing that it was the right call. This article is no different.

[sharpe1027]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the definition of possession when in the endzone is different than the definition listed in argument. Also why has nobody made the argument that a receiver must maintain possession through the ground? If this is the case, as possession is being determined while they're falling, Tate has already lost the catch to Jennings who maintains more contact.


It is a bit more complicated (or simpler in some respects) as the simultaneous catch deals with control, not possession. To establish "control," Mr. Hochuli explained you (generally) are required to have two hands on the ball. This is not the same as establishing possession in the context of a completed catch. It is that an instantaneous instant where you "control" the ball.

Jennings "controlled" the ball first. Tate just touched it with his finger tips. That's enough to alter the path of the ball, but its no more control than when a DL tips a pass up in the air.

If Tate's fingertips are enough for control, then there are hundreds of simultaneous catches ever year because two players often touch the ball at about the same time. That's just unbelievably stupid.

That being said, you do have an additional point. If at any time in the air Jennings has possession and Tate does not, it is an interception.

[Freak Out]

What is really lame....I can't find anywhere to comment on his garbage.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If golden tit grew his finger nails out for a year and they wrapped around the ball then maybe he had possession.

[MadtownPacker]

If golden tit grew his finger nails out for a year and they wrapped around the ball then maybe he had possession.
Maybe he had a time freezing machine and lifted the refs arms up to signal touchdown?

[Packers4Glory]

Cold Hard Football Facts needs to change it's name to Lukewarm Soft Football Opinions.

Golden Tate didn't have the first catch or a simultaneous catch.

He was an interested interloper.

I do agree that hoping for a PI call on a Hail Mary ain't gonna happen.

There is so much interference on Hail Mary's, the games would never end if you called all the PI.

CHFF swung and missed on this one.

disagree. yes there is always some PI you can prolly pick out on a hail mary, but anything as obvious as what Tate did would get called by experienced refs. It was as blatant of a shove as you'll ever see and that will always get called. It wasn't subtle or a little push or tug that would be hard to catch. Gruden saw it immediately.

[mraynrand]

disagree. yes there is always some PI you can prolly pick out on a hail mary, but anything as obvious as what Tate did would get called by experienced refs. It was as blatant of a shove as you'll ever see and that will always get called. It wasn't subtle or a little push or tug that would be hard to catch. Gruden saw it immediately.

I was right there with ya till the last line. Gruden is turning into the Andy Rooney of Pro Football Announcers. "I don't understand why....."

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3BaJMgGKAmE/SVkLk6WubiI/AAAAAAAAH0s/3D1nqhpV7_E/s320/chucky+gruden+is+sad.jpg

[red]

two fingers on a ball now equals a catch

learn something new everyday

[MadtownPacker]

two fingers on a ball now equals a catch

learn something new everyday
You're a dumbass and didnt learn shit. You probably had Golden Taint on your fantasy football team and smiled about it, you fuck.

[Joemailman]

nm

[mraynrand]

You're a dumbass and didnt learn shit. You probably had Golden Taint on your fantasy football team and smiled about it, you fuck.

This illustrates why FF sucks; same for the bastards who always said "I hope Randy Moss scores four TDs, but the Packers win, because he's on my FF team." There is only one FF; the rest is noise.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/85340/2247512-ffde1479.jpg

[red]

You're a dumbass and didnt learn shit. You probably had Golden Taint on your fantasy football team and smiled about it, you fuck.

hey pedro, try putting the hash pipe down for a little bit and maybe you could learn something too. at least something other then how to dig tunnels under our boarders

[Packers4Glory]

I was right there with ya till the last line. Gruden is turning into the Andy Rooney of Pro Football Announcers. "I don't understand why....."

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3BaJMgGKAmE/SVkLk6WubiI/AAAAAAAAH0s/3D1nqhpV7_E/s320/chucky+gruden+is+sad.jpg

haha he's not very good in the booth but the guy knows his stuff. If you can manage to pay attention, he says some insightful stuff here and there between the noise. He's got a great eye for the game but he isn't always very good at communicating it. If a good QB is playing its really hard to drown out his drooling over the QB.

[Pugger]

Chucky drools over more than just elite QBs. Every player that makes an outstanding play is a candidate for the HOF with this guy. To me BSPN took the wrong guy out of that MNF booth.

[George Cumby]

This illustrates why FF sucks; same for the bastards who always said "I hope Randy Moss scores four TDs, but the Packers win, because he's on my FF team." There is only one FF; the rest is noise.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/85340/2247512-ffde1479.jpg

Jack Kirby was THE MAN.

[smuggler]

It's been explained before, but the ruling the ref made requires both players to control the ball at the same time. That's why the call was wrong. Jennings was the player who pulled the ball out of its descent trajectory and controlled it, THEN Golden Tate came into the picture and applied a hand to the ball. The article in the first post misunderstands the rules.

[mraynrand]

The article in the first post misunderstands the rules.

co-incidentally, so did the white ref

[smuggler]

He admitted recently that he did not understand the rule, and knowing what he knows now, he would have ruled interception.

[Packers4Glory]

Elliott told Showtime's "Inside the NFL" that his phone didn't stop ringing for 72 hours. One of the messages left was from McCarthy.

"He called me at my house last week because he had heard I was having a rough week with all the calls and everything," Elliott said during the segment. "Wanted (me) to know that he thought what I did -- controversial and maybe he didn't agree with it -- (but he thought) I handled it with class."

Asked if he would stick by his call after seeing the replay, Elliott said: "I'd probably call interception. I learned a rule by screwing up the rule."

[Pugger]

The thing that pisses me off the most is these unfortunate guys were woefully unprepared to officiate a professional football game and we were the sacrificial lambs. It had to take some unlucky team to get royally screwed to force the league and the NFLFA to come to an agreement and damn if it wasn't us. I just pray this abomination doesn't come back and bite us in the fanny down the line.

[MadtownPacker]

Elliott told Showtime's "Inside the NFL" that his phone didn't stop ringing for 72 hours. One of the messages left was from McCarthy.

"He called me at my house last week because he had heard I was having a rough week with all the calls and everything," Elliott said during the segment. "Wanted (me) to know that he thought what I did -- controversial and maybe he didn't agree with it -- (but he thought) I handled it with class."While I get pissed at M3 for being stubborn on his playcalling he has never been less than a classy guy. Props to him for being the bigger man.

[MadtownPacker]

hey pedro, try putting the hash pipe down for a little bit and maybe you could learn something too. at least something other then how to dig tunnels under our boarders
I thought boarders like tunnels?

http://www.shockmansion.com/wp-content/myimages/2012/01/LIKE-us-on-Facebook-3156.jpg

[George Cumby]

The thing that pisses me off the most is these unfortunate guys were woefully unprepared to officiate a professional football game and we were the sacrificial lambs. It had to take some unlucky team to get royally screwed to force the league and the NFLFA to come to an agreement and damn if it wasn't us. I just pray this abomination doesn't come back and bite us in the fanny down the line.

I have heard it suggested that this hard-line approach with the officials was a strategic move on the part of the owners for when they have to renegotiate with the players. Ostensibly so they can say, "Look, we're not singling [cripes, that spelling looks weird] you guys out, we fucked the officials, too."

[George Cumby]

I thought boarders like tunnels?

http://www.shockmansion.com/wp-content/myimages/2012/01/LIKE-us-on-Facebook-3156.jpg

Nice catch. How come the Mexican has a better command of the English language than the Haole?

[MadtownPacker]

Nice catch. How come the Mexican has a better command of the English language than the Ahole?I know what a haole is (Hawaiian for pinche gabacho right?) but your post still needed a small correction. :lol:

[George Cumby]

I know what a haole is (Hawaiian for pinche gabacho right?) but your post still needed a small correction. :lol:

lol! It took me a minute. That was good. repped.:-D

[smuggler]

For some reason this contrarian article is still up on CHFF without a retraction or apology.

[Zool]

For some reason this contrarian article is still up on CHFF without a retraction or apology.

Probably generating a couple hundred hits per day. That's a money generator for the site.

[mraynrand]

Probably generating a couple hundred hits per day. That's a money generator for the site.

Like the post game chats with Cleft Crusty and the Nutz and Bolts show used to pack 'em in here at Packerrats