The Runningback Situation

[BananaMan]

Players on the GB roster:

FB:
A.J. Cooper
Vonta Leach
William Henderson
Ben Brown

Here we have a problem. Henderson is a lock, but since he's up there in age, we need another FB to do the dirty work. Will they still keep Leach considering he has hands of stone? Niether Brown nor Cooper has shown much. I was really pulling for Brown. If he shows good blocking in TC and the final preseason games, I think he could knock off Leach for the other spot.

HB:
Samkon Gado
Arliss Beach
Noah Herron
Ahman Green
Najeh Davenport


I think all five of our HBs are good players. But there's no way in hell we can keep five. Four would be pushing it a lot, especially since we are keeping two FBs. So, who to keep?

Green is a lock. That leaves two spots. One would think Davenport would make it, and they couldn't possibly cut Gado. But Herron has been decent, and Beach has surprised and looked pretty dang good.

The one possiblity that could happen is if one of the RBs gets hurt, they could exaggerate the injury and put him on IR. Same with FB.

But if that doesn't happen (I hate to make it sound like that'd be a bad thing, I don't wish injury on anyone), then the coaches will be faced with a hell of a decision. Trade? I think Davenport would be the prime person to trade. But I don't know if I see it in Thompson.

Let's hear some opinions, and it should be fun to watch the final two games.

[pack4to84]

FB
Vonta Leach (too good of a blocker to let go)

William Henderson (not a good blocker anymore, he whiffed on a Davenport run loss of 1 yard)

RB
Green
Gado
Beach (I think last night after Beach ran good they brought back Herron into the game ran a few plays then put Beach back out there again showed to me Beach is ahead of Herron now.)

cut/trade Davenport (ran into his line all night not seeing the holes.)

I think TT will stay with the thought of FUTURE which Davenport isn't. Beach showed quick burst through the line and seeing the hole develope. Davenport just kept running into the OLine all night.

[BananaMan]

FB
Vonta Leach (too good of a blocker to let go)

William Henderson (not a good blocker anymore, he whiffed on a Davenport run loss of 1 yard)

RB
Green
Gado
Beach (I think last night after Beach ran good they brought back Herron into the game ran a few plays then put Beach back there again showed to me Beach is ahead of Herron now.)

cut/trade Davenport (ran into his line all night not seeing the holes.)

I think TT will stay with the thought of FUTURE which Davenport isn't. Beach showed quick burst through the line and seeing the hole develope. Davenport just kept running in the OLine all night.

Sounds good. I think you gotta trade Davenport at all costs, even if it's for just a 7th rounder. He's too good to just cut, IMO.

[Bretsky]

HB:
Samkon Gado
Arliss Beach
Noah Herron
Ahman Green
Najeh Davenport


They will only keep two fullbacks so most likely only three from above will be with us.

Green, one would think, is a lock.

Then there is Davenport, Gado, Herron, and Beach


The only one above with any value in a deal is Davenport (one would think he'd draw a 5-7th round pick).

If they do not make a deal, Davenport will make the team.

So then we have two from Gado, Herron, and Beach.

To me, Herron is dependable, but average with little upside. He is gone.

Then it's a tough call between Gado and Beach.

Beach is looking too good in the preseason while Gado struggles to excel in this offense.

If you'd ask me today, I'd say we keep Green, Da Crapper, and Beach.

But if they can get some value for Da Crapper the smartest thing IMO would be to trade him for a draft pick or depth at a position of weakness.


B

[digitaldean]

FB
Vonta Leach (too good of a blocker to let go)

cut/trade Davenport (ran into his line all night not seeing the holes.)

I think TT will stay with the thought of FUTURE which Davenport isn't. Beach showed quick burst through the line and seeing the hole develope. Davenport just kept running into the OLine all night.

If Leach stays it's because of his blocking only. He has hands of stone catching balls out of the backfield.

Davenport looked like Darrell Thompson (80s back for GB) running into the line. Anybody can run up the blockers back. Beach seems to have a heckuva spark in him. Hits the holes fast.

With Gado's problem with the ZBS, he may be odd man out.

Herron looked OK.

[vince]

I like the idea that has been forwarded of keeping Davenport as the 2nd FB, with Henderson. Then you can keep Green, Beach, and Gado.

Herron is toast...

You might as well put Colledge in at FB if you're going to keep Leach. All he can do is block.

[Joemailman]

This may be way out there, but here goes...I think you keep just one fullback which is Henderson. The fullback isn't used as much as a lead blocker in this offense, so you can get by with Henderson. You can put Brown or Cooper on practice squad in case Henderson gets hurt. This allows you to keep four runningbacks. I think you try to trade Davenport if you can, otherwise cut him. Green, Gado, Herron and Beach all have running styles better suited to zone blocking.

[flipnout91]

We need to sit Davenport this weekend. We know what he is cappable (nothing special anymore) Give Beach and Noah a look in next weeks game. Gado proved he can do it last year.

[pack4to84]

Packers have to see what Beach and Herron can do with the starters.

[digitaldean]

This may be way out there, but here goes...I think you keep just one fullback which is Henderson. The fullback isn't used as much as a lead blocker in this offense, so you can get by with Henderson. You can put Brown or Cooper on practice squad in case Henderson gets hurt. This allows you to keep four runningbacks. I think you try to trade Davenport if you can, otherwise cut him. Green, Gado, Herron and Beach all have running styles better suited to zone blocking.
I think Henderson being out 3-6 weeks cuts that plan down.
:oops:

Gado has had problems with ZBS. Leach can ONLY block so that limits the screen passes out the backfield Hendu did so well.

Before Hendu got hurt, I would've pretty much agreed with your plan.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, Henderson's injury changes everything. They'll have to carry 2 FB's now unless they put Henderson on IR. It will be interesting to see if they can find room for 6 backs on the roster. If not, they'll have some tough choices to make at RB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Green, Gado as the HBs
Henderson as the FB
Davenport, Herron as guys that could possibly play both positions.

I'd say Leach gets cut, and Beach goes to the practice squad--unless he continues to shine. It's possible, but I don't think likely, that he beats out Da Poop for a spot.

[FavreChild]

We need to sit Davenport this weekend. We know what he is cappable (nothing special anymore) Give Beach and Noah a look in next weeks game. Gado proved he can do it last year.

Agreed.

'Tis a much better problem to have to many back to choose from than too few.

Like the possibility of keeping Beach for the practice squad, if we can pull it off. Although I'm sure we are all a little skittish about the back situation after the injury bug last year.

[woodbuck27]

FB
Vonta Leach (too good of a blocker to let go)

William Henderson (not a good blocker anymore, he whiffed on a Davenport run loss of 1 yard)

RB
Green
Gado
Beach (I think last night after Beach ran good they brought back Herron into the game ran a few plays then put Beach back out there again showed to me Beach is ahead of Herron now.)

cut/trade Davenport (ran into his line all night not seeing the holes.)

I think TT will stay with the thought of FUTURE which Davenport isn't. Beach showed quick burst through the line and seeing the hole develope. Davenport just kept running into the OLine all night.

Lately I've been trying to factor Ted Thompson into all my thinking and that isn't possible. What does Ted Thompson want? Does he want the now or the tomorrow?

Ahhh screw him. What am I seing?

I have been thinking . What to do now that William Henderson is out (six weeks) as far as the start of the season, and OUR 53-man. He seems to be missing assignments on blocks which is not him. He has great hands and knows how to move the chains, get us a first down in the crunch. Yet he may be out longer than 6 weeks.

Vonta Leach, can't catch a beachball but he's what we need as a blocker. We keep him. OUR QB has to be protected as a top prority.

Turn to RB.

Boys have we got questions here.

Ahman Green will be OUR designated #1 RB. After that it's cloudy.

What's left?

Najeh Davenport.

He's played in 39 games in 4 seasons with only 2 starts. 217 carries for 1068 yard (4.9 avg.) Receiving only 17 receptions for 107 yards ( 6.3 yard avg.). Najeh also has value as a kick returner. In those 39 games he returned 46 kicks for 1110 yards ( 24.1 yard avg.) Najeh's coming off (a foot?) injury? He's injury prone as he's a straight ahead guy.He's not lived up to my hopes giving his stature and the potential I felt he had.

Sankon Gado.

He's in my mind still unproven but he's a fan favourite. He works hard (seems v.dedicated to helping his team),he's strong,he's inteligent, but will he do good enough in OUR ZBS? He hasn't demonstrated that he'll get there but I believe he will. He'll not be Barry Sanders or Walter Payton Packer fans, but he'll be a serviceable RB. Too early to determine his real value. Too soon to trade him.Ted will certainly want him to prove his real value. He makes the final Roster along with Ahman Green.

Noah Herron and Arliss Beach.

Both Herron and Beach need these two preseason games to allow for a more fair assessment. Trouble is.The Bears are waiting to arrive in Lambeau just three weeks from today.

Too early to be all over Arliss Beach yet.

Ask yourselves. Just how HUGE is Ahman Green to us today?

When I study OUR RB/FB situation, and look at OUR second tier of talent at WR and then draw on what I see as depth at DT.

That smacks of possible trade scenario's.

Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy have some headscratching to do when it comes to selecting at RB/FB.

Today I'd go right here:

RB's: Green,Gado, Herron and Beach (options to cut one or keep both)

FBs: Vonta Leach (William Henderson on the IR) I'd be looking to use both Davenport and Herron at FB.

Really what are A.J. Cooper and Ben Brown doing? Neither makes OUR Roster.

Summarizing Today:

RB = * GREEN and * GADO and # ARLISS BEACH

FB = *LEACH and ** DAVENPORT or *** HERRON

Those in DARK have made the Roster.

* no cut or trade

# Number three or Reserve RB

** Number two RB or #2 FB and possible trade bait

*** Number three or reserve RB and a candidate at FB but he's not going to be cut.

GO PACKERS ! FAITH in 2006 !!

[MuttnJeff]

Keep: Green, Gado, Beach

Davenport has no trade value, although he might make a roster somewhere after getting cut.

Anything can happen at fullback. Henderson is over the hill, Leach can't catch a cold. A player currently on another team will be on the roster.

[Packnut]

Henderson going down sucks big-time. Throwing to the FB isimportant in the pure WC offense cause more times than not, he's un-accounted for by the defense.

Our options are few due to the fact "stone hands" could'nt catch a cold. Might have to pick up a FB after the cuts and keep one less RB to make room. I know most everyone loves Gado but the truth is he did'nt pound the ball and pick up 3-4 yds a pop. He broke off some big runs which padded the stats a bit and he got the big runs cause every defense was playing pass against us. It's no secret he's not made for this scheme so he's odd man out. Herron has promise but I'm not sold.

As for those advocating getting rid of Davenport, need I remind you about Green's asthma? He does come out a lot because of it and after watching last nights game, Davenport was impressive on a few power runs moving the defense by himself. Gado and Herron can't do that. Gotta keep him and hope he stays healthy. Stick Gado on the practice squad just in case.

It's pretty clear watching Davenport over the last few years that he is more talented than Gado or herron and you can't let the "he might get hurt again" theory factor into it.

[woodbuck27]

HB:
Samkon Gado
Arliss Beach
Noah Herron
Ahman Green
Najeh Davenport


They will only keep two fullbacks so most likely only three from above will be with us.

Green, one would think, is a lock.

Then there is Davenport, Gado, Herron, and Beach


The only one above with any value in a deal is Davenport (one would think he'd draw a 5-7th round pick).

If they do not make a deal, Davenport will make the team.

So then we have two from Gado, Herron, and Beach.

To me, Herron is dependable, but average with little upside. He is gone.

Then it's a tough call between Gado and Beach.

Beach is looking too good in the preseason while Gado struggles to excel in this offense.

If you'd ask me today, I'd say we keep Green, Da Crapper, and Beach.

But if they can get some value for Da Crapper the smartest thing IMO would be to trade him for a draft pick or depth at a position of weakness.


B

Hey B. You just cut OUR HERO from 2005, Samkon Gado

GIANT BALLS !!

I just made up my mind.

Vonta Leach is now my option FB on passing downs because of OUR need for him as a blocker he gets tons of work on running plays as well.. It's all about protection of Brett Favre.

Trade Davenport for something soon. He only clouds the picture.

Noah Herron moves into a utility role. He's spotted at FB and an option at RB (if one of three RB's fall to injury in a game).

Samkon Gado and Arliss Beach? I sink or swim with these two players. This is the immediate direction for 2006 and then I assess the RB position for 2007.

RB's A. Green at #1 RB till he can't stand.

Gado and Beach fight it out for the right to be #2 RB and the other is #3 RB.

Davenport has value as a kick returner but he's otherwise not dependable.TRADE him Ted !!

RB
Green
Gado (#2 or #3 RB)
Beach ...... ditto......

FB
Leach
Herron (option FB/RB)

GO PACKERS !! FAITH in 2006 !!

[Bretsky]

Well, I do think we need to see Gado and Beach more in the preseason.
Herron just looks consistently below average. I'm wondering why Beach never excelled in college. Neither did Gado; some think that's because he was in the wrong system. But we are in that system now. Time will tell.

B

[Deputy Nutz]

I personally thnk that Davenport is getting a bad rap. He is coming off a very serious leg injury where most thought he wouldn't be available until the middle of training camp. Hopefully his conditioning keeps improving and also his speed. He has surely lost a step, hopefully he can regain it. Lets also face the facts that he didn't have very much room to run through. Holes were small and filled quickly. The nice thing about Davenport is that he creates yards with his physical running style.

I would be more willing to part with Davenport if the offfensive line was coming together, and demonstrating a little more consistently. Green can also gains yards by his punishing running style, the difference is that Davenport holds on to the football. Green is going to help this offense, but he still has never proven capable of holding on to the football, and with defenders coming free from shakey line play expect a couple of more fumbles out of Green.

I guess that the Packers are going to keep Green, Davenport, Gado at halfback, and then Henderson, and Leach at fullback. Beach and Herron can hopefully be placed on the practice squad. In reality, thats what Beach and Herron are practice squad players.

[RashanGary]

Once Pooper gets steam, he's hard to stop. This zone scheme from what I've seen requires a sudden burst through quick opening and equally quickly closing holes. Green is likely going to fit in perfectly. I don't think Davenport fits the scheme too well. He's a great guy if you have gaping holes. He's big, he keeps gaining steam and once he gets going, he's no fun to bring down. He fit great when Shermans dominating lines were plowing the holes. Anyone would have. I think Green, Herron and Beach are better suited to burst through quick holes and there for better suited for this offense.

Gado seems to be playing like crap. He's a beast when it comes to his size/speed but when it comes to this offense, he just seems to studder and run into lineman. We'll see how it pans out. I guess I thought Herron and Beach have been more effective than Pooper and Gado.

[woodbuck27]

Well, I do think we need to see Gado and Beach more in the preseason.
Herron just looks consistently below average. I'm wondering why Beach never excelled in college. Neither did Gado; some think that's because he was in the wrong system. But we are in that system now. Time will tell.

B

How disappointed are you in Najeh Davenport?

B. He looks so dam powerful and sometimes I'm smacking my lips and it never gets there.He had one very huge game for us and that was back in 2003 I was thinking? He's really decent on kickoffs. So he's handled one a game.

Isn't it time to just let go of the likes of him and David Martin? I'm lumping Rod Gardner in there as well. What a disapppointment he's turning out to be. Boerigter is history.

He's all " this is great to be in Green Bay and with Brett Favre " and he just drops it. . . .He's like a guest at dinner that won't start farting. :mrgreen:

ALL three of these guys are stinking up the joint.

[HarveyWallbangers]

the difference is that Davenport holds on to the football.

That's conventional wisdom, but also false.

Davenport has 6 fumbles in 234 career touches (1 fumble every 39 touches)
Green has 31 fumbles in 1909 career touches (1 fumble every 62 touches)

Green always fumbles early in the year before going 9-10 games in a row at the end without fumble. Da Poop has been very fumble prone considering his limited touches.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hard for me to judge Gado. He looked decent in the scrimmage, but only got 3 carries in the two preseason games. I agree about Da Poop not fitting the scheme. When healthy, he's a lot like T.J. Duckett.

[Bretsky]

Well, I do think we need to see Gado and Beach more in the preseason.
Herron just looks consistently below average. I'm wondering why Beach never excelled in college. Neither did Gado; some think that's because he was in the wrong system. But we are in that system now. Time will tell.

B

How disappointed are you in Najeh Davenport?

B. He looks so dam powerful and sometimes I'm smacking my lips and it never gets there.He had one very huge game for us and that was back in 2003 I was thinking? He's really decent on kickoffs. So he's handled one a game.

Isn't it time to just let go of the likes of him and David Martin? I'm lumping Rod Gardner in there as well. What a disapppointment he's turning out to be. Boerigter is history.

He's all " this is great to be in Green Bay and with Brett Favre " and he just drops it. . . .He's like a guest at dinner that won't start farting. :mrgreen:

ALL three of these guys are stinking up the joint.

The Crapper has had some nice games for us; he's a very capable Running Back IMO when he's healthy. If they love the younger guys he is the one guy who might have value in the trade market. Rod Gardner has been disappointing up to this point; really thought he'd come in and make a difference. I do think the talent is there; just wondering where the head is.

[BobDobbs]

First off I think that it's important to note that we look better at the Running Back spot than I thought we would considering all the injuries coming in. That said, we have so many question marks there and on the line that I would be surprised if our running game is a strength this year.

At fullback we will just have to make due. I know the Jags and McCarthy want to be able to throw to the fullback, but if you can't lead block you can't play that position. In my mind no one unseats Henderson or Leach. If Hendo ends up on the PUP list for the first six games you have to keep someone else for that time. That scenario is doubtful though.

At running back it is all about vision. Some of you may remember slo-mo footage of Barry Sanders with his eyes sweeping back and forth. Green is the only back on our roster with NFL starter vision. I don't think it can be taught. I think seeing the field and instantly understanding where to go is a natural ability.

Green has(had?) vision, speed, and finishing power. Also, he's and excellent receiver out of the backfield and picks up blitzes beautifully, so he's our third down back and an upgrade over Fish from last year. If he's running well within the first month we might just have a running game.

Gado has no vision. I noticed this last year. He may end up being a productive player within a scheme like Sherman's where the hole is picked when the coach calls the play. He has enough speed to break a long run and strength to break an arm tackle. I hope he has a good career. It won't be within a zone blocking system.

Najeh has been a very good backup runner who has been injured too often. He has also, been our best kick returner since Rossum amongst a very poor crop. I'm not sure why it is assumed that Najeh can back up at fullback, because he never really has played the position in the NFL, but let's assume that he can. I say keep him.

I haven't been able to see Beach play I hope that he can beat out Gado, but this might be a practice squad year for him. Running back is a position that young guys can make an immediate impact, though.

Herron is just too slow. He's solid, but how do you keep a guy that won't break off a big run for you?

So, you begin the season with Green starting, Najeh, and Beach(?) backing up. Hendo is the nominal starter, but is injured. Leach starts against the Bears and Najeh is the emergency fullback.

If you can find some one who can block and catch dump Leach. If you can, get a 6th for Gado(he did score a bunch of TDs last year).

[the_idle_threat]

Welcome to the forum, Bob!

That analysis is well thought out and well written, but I hope you are wrong in one respect: I really want to see somebody take Davenpoop's job. The guy's strength is also his weakness: he hits defenders like a ton of bricks and is hard to stop ... but this upright, non-elusive running style gets him hurt and puts him on the sideline. No matter how good a player is, he can't help his team spending the latter part of every season standing around in street clothes. (Incidentally, this last point is my argument against "running" quarterbacks.)

On Saturday, Davenpoop also showed some of that lack of vision that Gado suffers from ... it appeared to me that he kept running into his blockers rather than into a hole. Perhaps it was partly the fault of the blocking, but when Beach came in later, he didn't seem to have the same problem.

It might not be Gado who takes Davenpoop's job---I do think your assessment of Gado's vision (or lack thereof) is right on---but it could be Beach, or Brown, or some shlub we pick up in a late trade.

If we go into the season with Davenpoop as the top backup, we'd better have contingency plans for late in the season when a roster spot opens up. Rather than go though that hassle, we're better off just pinching him off now.

[MuttnJeff]

Green is kept because he is the best Packer back of last 30 years, and maybe he hasn't lost it.

Beach could be a real talent, he has some burst. Forget talk of practice squad, some other team would sign him off PS. A rebuilding team like GB needs to invest roster spot in young player like Beach.

So that leaves Davenport, Gado and Herron fighting for 1 job. Davenport has talent, has made some impressive runs in his 3 years. But as everybody points out, he is a big target who gets hit and injured a lot. He also is no Gale Sayers, he had a lot of crappy runs too, gets caught behind line of scrimmage. He reportedly is not much of a blocker. He looks really awkward trying to catch a pass. Overall, Davenport is a dime-a-dozen, marginal NFL player.

Herron isn't fast, but coaches are looking at a lot of factors for the third back - blocking, special teams. Gado was the most productive back last season,showing better than Davenport & Green.

The competition between Davenport, Gado and Herron is a toss-up. I guess Gado sticks, but it could be any of them. And no need to shed tears over the two guys who leave, they are borderline players.

[Deputy Nutz]

the difference is that Davenport holds on to the football.

That's conventional wisdom, but also false.

Davenport has 6 fumbles in 234 career touches (1 fumble every 39 touches)
Green has 31 fumbles in 1909 career touches (1 fumble every 62 touches)

Green always fumbles early in the year before going 9-10 games in a row at the end without fumble. Da Poop has been very fumble prone considering his limited touches.

Your right the stats show a different story, but Green is a starter and has never solved the problem. With almost 2000 carries he still fumbles the ball every other game. Davenport has just over 1 fumble a year while with Green Bay. Although it is difficult to fumble the ball when your not playing.

[woodbuck27]

" Beach and Herron can hopefully be placed on the practice squad. In reality, thats what Beach and Herron are practice squad players." Deputy Nutz

Today we are well aware of the loss of FB William Henderson, for at least the first month of the season (by report only). It may be more serious and his age is a factor in a recovery.

Will you agree that we have serious concerns at RB and running the ball?

Support for that as a fact Deputy Nutz:

** Our inexperienced OL and the question's surrounding players coming off injury and adapting to the ZBS and what OUR RB history has taught us.

** Where will Ahman Green really be? Yes he fumbles the ball till he gets game experience.

** Is Gado ever going to respond to the ZBS, and get up to speed as he did last season. He's by last report not game ready and on the mend as well. He'll play soon we trust.

** I like Najeh Davenport, but he's never stayed healthy and he's a straight ahead runner (yes) but with POWER. His value as a kick returner is a feather in his cap.

** Noah Herron is young and inexperienced, as is Arliss Beach, but they fit OUR future. Place them both on the PS, and someone may grab one or both of them. Why not install the best of these two RB's on the Roster?

With all these questions it's obvious to me, that today. Only two RB's are on OUR 53 man Roster.

I feel strongly. Ahman Green's a LOCK (today) and due to his needs at blocking (and protecting Brett Favre) so is Vonta Leach.

The next two preseason games have to clear the picture at RB/FB.

Maybe, it's seriously time to make a trade involving Najeh Davenport or Gado (but TT needs to se more of Samkon Gado, so the first trade option is to me,Najeh Davenport,. . .

get anything for him for us ASAP, or package him, to get a ready made value player that can start on the OL or certainly backup Ahman Green at RB, or give us another valued WR.

GO with or committ to either/or both Herron (possible FB) and Beach (RB), after testing both in the next game with "the Bengals" and again with "the Titans" ?

We need to try to make a trade this week, but certainly before TC Deputy Nutz. Package players for a starter, or value backup.

Clear the RB/FB picture by dealing Davenport and/or Samkon Gado. I hate personally, to see Samkon Gado go, but something more is needed on OUR team for 2006.

I'm getting it, that this season is not important as far as success. If that is real?

That makes it difficult for me to suggest a specific move for us as a Packer fan. I want us to do well in 2006. We need more for that to be a reality.

Ted Thompson trumps me. The lowly fan. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FOR 2006 !!

[BooHoo]

If Davenport plays extensively at the beginning of the season, he might not be around at the end because injuries. Samkon filled in well last year when we played revolving RB. So I think Gado is a lock and well as Green. Trade Davenport. Keep one of the other two RBs. Also, is there a TE who can catch on the team who could backfill as fullaback when needed behind Leach. Just a thought!

[Zool]

Once Pooper gets steam, he's hard to stop.

I cant be the only one that thought this sounded funny.

[woodbuck27]

If Davenport plays extensively at the beginning of the season, he might not be around at the end because injuries. Samkon filled in well last year when we played revolving RB. So I think Gado is a lock and well as Green. Trade Davenport. Keep one of the other two RBs. Also, is there a TE who can catch on the team who could backfill as fullaback when needed behind Leach. Just a thought!

BooHoo:

There is talk that TE Zac Alcorn is that TE, but I havn't had time to research his background thourougly. He is very athletic I understand, and if he can be decent as a blocker and is a dedicated sort (good work ethic) with hard work he'll grow there. The nice thing about that move is that if he's showing promise at TE then he's a backup to two or three TE's there and then David martin can be dispatched as an option and Ted thompson goes with Bubba and Donald lee at TE and Zac Alcorn FB backup and FB on passing downs and reserve TE.

Vonta Leach is a solid blocker but he'll not likely suddenly start to be a good receiver. Man he can't find the handle on pass's from Favre that you wouldn't drop BooHoo. Well maybe you would? Haha. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FOR 2006 !!

[woodbuck27]

Once Pooper gets steam, he's hard to stop.

I cant be the only one that thought this sounded funny.

Davenport is "a Tank for sure" but that punishes himself.

GO PACKERS ! FAITH in 2006 !!

[woodbuck27]

the difference is that Davenport holds on to the football.

That's conventional wisdom, but also false.

Davenport has 6 fumbles in 234 career touches (1 fumble every 39 touches)
Green has 31 fumbles in 1909 career touches (1 fumble every 62 touches)

Green always fumbles early in the year before going 9-10 games in a row at the end without fumble. Da Poop has been very fumble prone considering his limited touches.

Yes! That has to be considered Harvey.

GO - GO PACKERS in 2006 !!

[BooHoo]

If Davenport plays extensively at the beginning of the season, he might not be around at the end because injuries. Samkon filled in well last year when we played revolving RB. So I think Gado is a lock and well as Green. Trade Davenport. Keep one of the other two RBs. Also, is there a TE who can catch on the team who could backfill as fullaback when needed behind Leach. Just a thought!

BooHoo:

There is talk that TE Zac Alcorn is that TE, but I havn't had time to research his background thourougly. He is very athletic I understand, and if he can be decent as a blocker and is a dedicated sort (good work ethic) with hard work he'll grow there. The nice thing about that move is that if he's showing promise at TE then he's a backup to two or three TE's there and then David martin can be dispatched as an option and Ted thompson goes with Bubba and Donald lee at TE and Zac Alcorn FB backup and FB on passing downs and reserve TE.

Vonta Leach is a solid blocker but he'll not likely suddenly start to be a good receiver. Man he can't find the handle on pass's from Favre that you wouldn't drop BooHoo. Well maybe you would? Haha. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FOR 2006 !!

With TT wanting to take the pressure off Favre by having a good running game, they will go with Leach as starting FB. They will have to id someone with "hands" to play backup FB. Maybe Alcorn is the guy.

Afer 28+ years in the Army I think I could handle a pass from Brett. And then make it about one foot before being dropped and carried off the field. :smile:

[woodbuck27]

MuttnJeff Welcome to your Packer Home!! Come here often - post alot.

That's good advice. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH PACKER FANS FOR THIS SEASON !!

[Deputy Nutz]

Well the injury to Hendo opens some things up a bit. Hendo will be placed either on the PUP list or the IR for the first part of the season. Most likely Herron will be kept on the active roster with Davenport, Green, and Gado. Herron will either learn to play a little fullback and back up Leach, especially on 2nd and long, and third downs.

Or Davenport could easily revert back to Fullback for the time being and Herron can be the 2nd or third running back.

[woodbuck27]

If Davenport plays extensively at the beginning of the season, he might not be around at the end because injuries. Samkon filled in well last year when we played revolving RB. So I think Gado is a lock and well as Green. Trade Davenport. Keep one of the other two RBs. Also, is there a TE who can catch on the team who could backfill as fullaback when needed behind Leach. Just a thought!

BooHoo:

There is talk that TE Zac Alcorn is that TE, but I havn't had time to research his background thourougly. He is very athletic I understand, and if he can be decent as a blocker and is a dedicated sort (good work ethic) with hard work he'll grow there. The nice thing about that move is that if he's showing promise at TE then he's a backup to two or three TE's there and then David martin can be dispatched as an option and Ted thompson goes with Bubba and Donald lee at TE and Zac Alcorn FB backup and FB on passing downs and reserve TE.

Vonta Leach is a solid blocker but he'll not likely suddenly start to be a good receiver. Man he can't find the handle on pass's from Favre that you wouldn't drop BooHoo. Well maybe you would? Haha. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FOR 2006 !!

With TT wanting to take the pressure off Favre by having a good running game, they will go with Leach as starting FB. They will have to id someone with "hands" to play backup FB. Maybe Alcorn is the guy.

Afer 28+ years in the Army I think I could handle a pass from Brett. And then make it about one foot before being dropped and carried off the field. :smile:

I like your toughness . . now, add confidence. First secure the ball and bash em, run over em and move upfield.

Fight ! - Fight !! - Fight !!!

GO PACKERS ! - FAN FAITH !!!

[Guiness]

Everyone here seems to think we can just stash a player on the PS, and he'll stay there for the year, to have another go-around next fall.

I think that's a dangerous game to play - if anyone who's shown promise is put there, they can quickly be snapped up. The PS is a place to audition players, not 'hide' them.

[vince]

The PS is a place to audition players, not 'hide' them.

But if they're not good enough to occupy a roster spot, this IS the next best thing... At least they get to practice with the team... Yeah, they're exposed to being claimed, but perhaps it's better than cutting them outright.

As far as the backfield, I'm down with...

Henderson - PUP
Leach
Alcorn - TE/FB

Green
Davenport
Beach
Gado

I would think this requires that Martin or Lee get cut...

[Scott Campbell]

Everyone here seems to think we can just stash a player on the PS, and he'll stay there for the year, to have another go-around next fall.

I think that's a dangerous game to play - if anyone who's shown promise is put there, they can quickly be snapped up. The PS is a place to audition players, not 'hide' them.

KC had Gado on their practice squad when we plucked him away.

[woodbuck27]

Everyone here seems to think we can just stash a player on the PS, and he'll stay there for the year, to have another go-around next fall.

I think that's a dangerous game to play - if anyone who's shown promise is put there, they can quickly be snapped up. The PS is a place to audition players, not 'hide' them.

KC had Gado on their practice squad when we plucked him away.

Dangerous indeed, Guiness.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Funny! Alcorn is a TE who caught a gift one-yard TD and people are ready to put him on the 53-man roster as a FB.

[Cobra Kai]

I think the Henderson injury does change things a bit. The only 2 locks for both FB and RB on this team are Henderson and Green, the two hurt guys. The others don't have the talent or don't fit the ZB scheme too well. It honestly looks like a real crapshoot for the other spots because they all have knocks against them...

RB
Davenport - lacks vision, balance, and intial burst
Gado - hesitent and lacks vision
Beach - lacks experience
Herron - lacks speed

FB
Leach - lacks hands
Cooper - lacks experience
Brown - lacks experience

Who knows what we'll see this season if Green and Henderson can't return to form? We could end up with a Leach and Beach backfield...

[woodbuck27]

Funny! Alcorn is a TE who caught a gift one-yard TD and people are ready to put him on the 53-man roster as a FB.

The Packers TC.

A Magical Mystery Tour. :mrgreen:

GO PACK GO !!

[Tony Oday]

If Gado is cut I will stop watching the Packers. HE is 'Packer' people. Came in last year played very well. He is a guy that can make the one cut runs just put him in the game. I see him as a gamer!

[Scott Campbell]

I like Gado, but if he is cut I vow to press on and continue watching the Packers.

[woodbuck27]

I think the Henderson injury does change things a bit. The only 2 locks for both FB and RB on this team are Henderson and Green, the two hurt guys. The others don't have the talent or don't fit the ZB scheme too well. It honestly looks like a real crapshoot for the other spots because they all have knocks against them...

RB
Davenport - lacks vision, balance, and intial burst
Gado - hesitent and lacks vision
Beach - lacks experience
Herron - lacks speed

FB
Leach - lacks hands
Cooper - lacks experience
Brown - lacks experience

Who knows what we'll see this season if Green and Henderson can't return to form? We could end up with a Leach and Beach backfield...

Lots of questions that will be answered in the next two preseason games.

Bengals next and (next up) Titans.

GO PACK GO ! PACKER FAN FAITH !!

[BananaMan]

As "El President For Life" of Sam's Club, I would be furious if Mr. Gado got cut. He's an amazing player and person, and I've had the pleasure of speaking to him in person. Very nice guy.

Also, I think I would be puking for weeks if we cut Samkon and he went on to perform very well for another team.

[drayge]

I don't think you can put Henderson on the PUP - that designation (as far as I can determine) is only for players injured prior to training camp. I can't seem to find any confirmation on it though.

That means a decision on Henderson's rehab needs to be made as well, as the roster spot may be more valuable than his play in a limited number of games.

IMO, we should see if Davenport or Herron can block well enough in the last preseason games, as that verstatility could save either of their jobs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think you can put a guy on PUP (whether he was injured prior to the preseason or during the preseason) or IL. IL means he's gone for the season (unlike baseball, basketball, and hockey). PUP means he has to sit out at least 6 weeks. You have a window of 3 weeks to bring him back after that. Then, you need to make a decision: cut him, put him on IL, or cut somebody else and activate him. I've been wrong before, but that's my understanding.

[drayge]

According to an ESPN report about the Colts


Players can only be put on the PUP list before the first practice of training camp. If they are not removed from it before the final roster cutdown to 53 players, they cannot be activated until Week 7.

I can't seem to find any NFL source about the rule, but I also cannot find any case of a player who is injured during a preseason game and is placed on the PUP list, which is the reason I said that I was not certain of the rule.

If ESPN has the rule right, then Henderson cannot be placed on the list and must be part of the roster or released. This means that - even if Leach is the starter - they need a RB to be the backup FB in case of emergency. The fact that rumors have Gado practicing at FB spells to me that Davenport and Herron don't have an upper hand due to their prior FB experience.

[run pMc]

Well, we know A.Green is a lock to make the squad.
Hendu is also a lock, but since he's hurt, GB needs to go to plan B for several weeks.
Probably, Leach makes it for his blocking & ST play. The 2nd FB is one of our RB's...
Gado, Herron, and Davenport all have taken snaps at FB. I'm not sold on Gado for some reason...he's too inconsistent for me, and he had fumble-itis last season. Definitely a fan favorite.
Herron had a good start but sounds like he's cooled off since, and Beach was on the cusp of getting released for being too banged up to practice.

Nobody's going to trade for anyone in this group...it's too early. GM's will be looking at the 1st round of cuts coming up and try to pick soebody up off the roster cuts before swinging a trade.

I'm not sold on the quality of the depth in our backfield, anyway. I can name several teams with vastly superior depth (Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Patriots...)

I agree with what others have said...Game 3 will go a long way towards who we keep. May not know until Game 4...Beach might be the one cut with the hopes of landing on the practice sqaud. It is risky but common for hidden jewels to be stashed there. Rivera & KGB were there once upon a time.

[Joemailman]

Full of questions
Packers test fullback subs
By TOM SILVERSTEIN
tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 21, 2006
Green Bay - There's a pretty good chance that fullback William Henderson will be back in time from a knee injury for the season opener against Chicago Sept. 10.

William Henderson came out of the game late in the first half of the Packers' 38-10 victory over the Falcons after experiencing trouble with his knee.

But the Packers aren't taking any chances.

The same day Henderson underwent arthroscopic surgery on his knee, the Packers used halfbacks Samkon Gado and Noah Herron extensively at fullback. Both have worked occasionally at fullback since training camp began, but Monday they worked there almost exclusively in two-back sets.

"William's out right now so we have to pick up the slack," Herron said. "That's really what it is."

It might be more than that, however.

Henderson's backup, Vonta Leach, is coming off a game in which he dropped two passes, one of which he probably would have turned into a 9-yard touchdown. What's more, the Packers favor a quicker, more versatile fullback who can catch as well as he can block and don't necessarily need the big bruiser the previous offense required.

At 252 pounds, Henderson fits the mold of a bruiser, but he can catch and has much more experience than anyone else in the backfield. However, he appeared to miss several blocks in the exhibition game Saturday against Atlanta and at age 35 might be nearing the end.

"You'd like William (to be back); he's been around here a long time," offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski said. "He'll be back. When guys go down, you have to have other guys step up. That's true at any position."

Henderson came out of the game late in the first half of the Packers' 38-10 victory over the Falcons after experiencing trouble with his knee, and medical testing showed that he had loose cartilage. According to a source, Henderson has been dealing with the problem for a while but it flared up enough that he was not able to continue playing.

A decision was made to operate right away with the hope that he could be back in time for the opener.

"We had it cleaned out," coach Mike McCarthy said. "We're expecting him back as soon as possible. If anyone can get back in a quick, timely fashion, it would be William. I'm hoping it's three weeks, two to three weeks. Hopefully for the opener."

Henderson's agent, James D. Williams, said the initial report he heard was that the damage found in the fullback's knee was not as bad as first thought. He said he had not yet received a full report from the doctors but thought there was a chance Henderson would be back for the start of the regular season.

In the meantime, Gado worked a considerable amount as a lead blocker in practice and was used at least once in the same backfield as Ahman Green. The prospect of having two explosive runners who also have the ability to catch is something the Packers would love to explore.

In their zone-blocking system, the fullback doesn't have to take on linemen or linebackers.

"There are some things (where) you have to be physical, but there are a lot of things where he has the safety because the line's got the front seven guys," Jagodzinski said. "As far as being a downhill masher, you don't have to be that in this offense."

Gado, who stands 5 feet 10 inches and weighs 226 pounds, is built similarly to Green and has the bulk to handle blocking duties. He just doesn't have a lot of experience. Still, he'll probably get the first chance to prove he can be a replacement for or a complement to Henderson.

"I haven't done it since high school sophomore year," Gado said. "You don't need to be a bruiser in this system; you just need to be able to be versatile. I think pretty much the fullback is a glorified tailback in this offense. You need to have more versatility than fullbacks in most other offenses."

Leach, meanwhile, is more of a traditional fullback, weighing 250 pounds and carrying a lot of power in his pads. With Henderson's injury, he stood to be in good position to make the team, but after dropping the passes against the Falcons, he has some making up to do.

He doesn't know if the sudden move of Gado and Herron to fullback is a byproduct of Henderson's injury or a result of his drops.

"You can look at it either way," Leach said. "But (from my standpoint) you have to look at it that I just have to go out there and continue doing what I can do, catch the ball when they throw it to me."

Jagodzinski said the coaches were still contemplating using tight end Tory Humphrey at fullback. The 257-pound Humphrey played the position some last year while on the Packers' practice squad.