Time to face fact

[George Cumby]

The fact I am facing is that multiple players said they weren't fired up for the game, that the energy wasn't there, etc.

That is concerning as it leads me to believe that the team's competitive fire isn't raging hot.

M3 better face fact and unfuck this or it's one and done in the playoffs again.

[denverYooper]

The fact I am facing is that multiple players said they weren't fired up for the game, that the energy wasn't there, etc.

That is concerning as it leads me to believe that the team's competitive fire isn't raging hot.

M3 better face fact and unfuck this or it's one and done in the playoffs again.

Totally. They should bring Gunnery Sgt. Hartman in for a pep talk.

[Freak Out]

I'm starting to come around to the idea.

I'm the kind of fan that can get down with this...the more elite RBs you have the better...but right now it's the loss of Matthews, Shields, Woodson, Perry, and Bishop that hurts the most. Oh...and the fact that on occasion M3 is just way to rigid in his game plans.

[pbmax]

Elite RBs can't make something out of nothing. Chris Johnson disappeared for a year and a half while his O line struggled.

[woodbuck27]

I'm the kind of fan that can get down with this...the more elite RBs you have the better...but right now it's the loss of Matthews, Shields, Woodson, Perry, and Bishop that hurts the most. Oh...and the fact that on occasion M3 is just way to rigid in his game plans.

It's a very rare RB that can compensate for lousy play on a teams OL. Before you draft a first round RB you better seriously option for an O-lineman.

[Joemailman]

It's a fact Packers are getting nothing right now from recent 1st round picks due to injuries:

2007: Justin Harrell - Out of football due to injuries
2009: Clay Matthews - Hamstring
2009: B. J. Raji - Playing
2010: Brian Bulaga - Injured Reserve
2011: Derek Sherrod - Probably destined for Injured Reserve
2012: Nick Perry: Injured Reserve

[Freak Out]

Chill dudes....I know even the great ones struggle with a shit O-line....but like I said I'm fan that likes to draft elite RBs. :) Hmmm...Barry Sanders is available but my offensive line sucks.....better draft an OT!

[woodbuck27]

Chill dudes....I know even the great ones struggle with a shit O-line....but like I said I'm fan that likes to draft elite RBs. :) Hmmm...Barry Sanders is available but my offensive line sucks.....better draft an OT!

Yes Barry Sanders is one of those rare RB's that you cannot ever expect to draft. Barry Sanders was famous for running 30-40 yards behind the LOS before heading north from south.

[Freak Out]

BTW....welcome back Woody. You crazy old bastard. :)

[OS PA]

How have FA Offensive Tackles worked out recently for teams picking them up. I can't come up with a single big FA splash on a tackle that worked out. Can anybody? It seems to me that we need to draft offensive linemen, which we don't seem to be very good at.

[denverYooper]

Tony Moll is available.

[LegandofthePack15]

Agree with the trade up, but wrong position. A turnkey OL or two is what is needed.

Seems like Thompson has already drafted a boatload of offensive linemen with high draft picks. An elite OT would be nice but an elite RB would be even better. You know, a guy like Adrian Peterson, Tomlinson or Barry Sanders. Not sure there's anyone like those guys in the 2013 draft, though.

Lemme check with my mentor, Mel Kiper, Jr. As many of you know, I have a Master's in Mock Draft from the Mel Kiper, Jr. School of College Football Scouting and Hair Design at the prestigious ESPNU. :razz:

[LegandofthePack15]

Elite RBs can't make something out of nothing. Chris Johnson disappeared for a year and a half while his O line struggled.

Peterson has been making hay lately with a bad OL...

[George Cumby]

Seems like Thompson has already drafted a boatload of offensive linemen with high draft picks. An elite OT would be nice but an elite RB would be even better. You know, a guy like Adrian Peterson, Tomlinson or Barry Sanders. Not sure there's anyone like those guys in the 2013 draft, though.

Lemme check with my mentor, Mel Kiper, Jr. As many of you know, I have a Master's in Mock Draft from the Mel Kiper, Jr. School of College Football Scouting and Hair Design at the prestigious ESPNU. :razz:


I'm not sure how many HoF or near-HoF RB's will be available in next year's draft.......

[mraynrand]

Elite RBs can't make something out of nothing. Chris Johnson disappeared for a year and a half while his O line struggled.

especially a line built and trained for pass pro.

NEVERTHELESS, after drinking a fifth of scodch an wadching the game agen. I m convinced that the prmblem is Stubby not sticking with the run. Empti beckfeld is a killer against a pass rush liken Gianters. Big TD to Nielsen was essentually a play accshem pass.

[George Cumby]

especially a line built and trained for pass pro.

NEVERTHELESS, after drinking a fifth of scodch an wadching the game agen. I m convinced that the prmblem is Stubby not sticking with the run. Empti beckfeld is a killer against a pass rush liken Gianters. Big TD to Nielsen was essentually a play accshem pass.

Why, in the name of all that is holy, would you do that to yourself?

[pbmax]

especially a line built and trained for pass pro.

NEVERTHELESS, after drinking a fifth of scodch an wadching the game agen. I m convinced that the prmblem is Stubby not sticking with the run. Empti beckfeld is a killer against a pass rush liken Gianters. Big TD to Nielsen was essentually a play accshem pass.

I would call that a formation or personnel issue then, not a sticking with the running game issue. 22 carries for RBs is not bad in a game with limited offensive success/plays.

[pbmax]

Peterson has been making hay lately with a bad OL...

Well, if you can assure me of Petersen talent and production, then I won't argue. :)

I would settle for Forte like production. Or a Ray Rice skillset. Heck, bring back Raymont Harris and Darick Holmes.

[LegandofthePack15]

Why, in the name of all that is holy, would you do that to yourself?

According to Dr. John Holmes, M.D., PhD, noted Psychiatrist AND Psychologist at the University of Southern California, such behavior (a true Packer fan re-watching every second of Sunday night's beat-down) is a sign of masochism.

Not saying Rand is a masochist. Just pointing out a fact since this thread is aptly titled "Time to Face Fact." :mrgreen:

[denverYooper]

I would call that a formation or personnel issue then, not a sticking with the running game issue. 22 carries for RBs is not bad in a game with limited offensive success/plays.

They bumped up the run total at the end of the game just trying to get the hell out of there with Rodgers alive. I think Rand's larger point about ditching the original gameplan too early is a good one because it looked like M3 was throwing spaghetti at the wall sometime around 17-7/24-7.

[pbmax]

They bumped up the run total at the end of the game just trying to get the hell out of there with Rodgers alive. I think Rand's larger point about ditching the original gameplan too early is a good one because it looked like M3 was throwing spaghetti at the wall sometime around 17-7/24-7.

Fair point, also forgot about 6 straight runs with Harrell.

[LegandofthePack15]

Well, if you can assure me of Petersen talent and production, then I won't argue. :)

I would settle for Forte like production. Or a Ray Rice skillset. Heck, bring back Raymont Harris and Darick Holmes.

How about Basil Mitchell and D'Mond Parker? Love the "feet on fire" touchdown dance when they score.

I am sure there's someone with at least a poor man version of Peterson's skill set out there for the 2013 draft. But I am too lazy to do any research right now. :-P

[rbaloha1]

This is not a championship team with the injuries.

2010 was amazing and will not be duplicated again with back-ups.

[mraynrand]

I would call that a formation or personnel issue then, not a sticking with the running game issue. 22 carries for RBs is not bad in a game with limited offensive success/plays.


Good point, and correction taken. Things look so much more obvious now that the vapours have cleared.

[mraynrand]

According to Dr. John Holmes, M.D., PhD, noted Psychiatrist AND Psychologist at the University of Southern California, such behavior (a true Packer fan re-watching every second of Sunday night's beat-down) is a sign of masochism.

Not saying Rand is a masochist. Just pointing out a fact since this thread is aptly titled "Time to Face Fact." :mrgreen:

Excellent point. As all therapists will agree, the first step on the path to a cure, is admission of the existence of a problem, or in other words, facing fact. The second step is providing the appropriate numbing medication.

[Pugger]

It's a fact Packers are getting nothing right now from recent 1st round picks due to injuries:

2007: Justin Harrell - Out of football due to injuries
2009: Clay Matthews - Hamstring
2009: B. J. Raji - Playing
2010: Brian Bulaga - Injured Reserve
2011: Derek Sherrod - Probably destined for Injured Reserve
2012: Nick Perry: Injured Reserve

I think our 2 first round tackles will be back for 2013 but it is the CENTER spot that must be addressed this offseason.

[Pugger]

especially a line built and trained for pass pro.

NEVERTHELESS, after drinking a fifth of scodch an wadching the game agen. I m convinced that the prmblem is Stubby not sticking with the run. Empti beckfeld is a killer against a pass rush liken Gianters. Big TD to Nielsen was essentually a play accshem pass.

It appears after reading your post here that you are still drinking... :wink:

[woodbuck27]

I think our 2 first round tackles will be back for 2013 but it is the CENTER spot that must be addressed this offseason.

Why !? Did we lose Scott Wells?

Ohh yea we did. Just like somehow a certain **punter that is LOCKED in at Seattle was allowed to get away.

**
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Special&cat=Punting&conference=NFL&year=season_2012&sort=411&old_category=Punting&old_group=Special

[red]

Why !? Did we lose Scott Wells?

Ohh yea we did. Just like somehow a certain **punter that is LOCKED in at Seattle was allowed to get away.

**
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Special&cat=Punting&conference=NFL&year=season_2012&sort=411&old_category=Punting&old_group=Special


cause our current punter is so awful

[Rutnstrut]

Why !? Did we lose Scott Wells?

Ohh yea we did. Just like somehow a certain **punter that is LOCKED in at Seattle was allowed to get away.

**
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Special&cat=Punting&conference=NFL&year=season_2012&sort=411&old_category=Punting&old_group=Special

Come on, the experts here assured there would be NO drop off going from Wells to Saturday. These are also the same "experts" that insist the Packers don't need a good running game, and insist Rodgers walks on water.

[pbmax]

Come on, the experts here assured there would be NO drop off going from Wells to Saturday. These are also the same "experts" that insist the Packers don't need a good running game, and insist Rodgers walks on water.

Listen, feel free to make up the stuff to back up your posts but keep the rest of us out of it without some bumping.

[gbgary]

we do not suck. the depleted (through injury and age) wr core aren't getting open quick/often enough, combined with the depleted (through injury and age) o-line's inability to keep the rush contained, makes rodgers hold the ball too long or force throws, which leads to sacks and turnovers. rebuilding takes some time. tt did a good job with the d this year. it's the o's turn next draft. we're good enough against most teams even in our current state. if mm will max protect, when the occasion calls for it, maybe rodgers can have more time to let the wrs get open. we'll win the division and probably win a playoff game. if we can get healthy and gel late...maybe go further.

[Patler]

The fact I am facing is that multiple players said they weren't fired up for the game, that the energy wasn't there, etc.

That is concerning as it leads me to believe that the team's competitive fire isn't raging hot.

M3 better face fact and unfuck this or it's one and done in the playoffs again.

I found it odd, too. Facing the team that eliminated you last year, the reigning SB champs, needing a win to hold first in the division. Not being up for that game is a concern

[George Cumby]

Come on, the experts here assured there would be NO drop off going from Wells to Saturday. These are also the same "experts" that insist the Packers don't need a good running game, and insist Rodgers walks on water.

OK. I'll bite.

How many games has Wells been active for? IIRC he has been out virtually the entire season. So the better question is who would you rather have at center, EDS or Saturday? Because if the Pack hadn't signed Saturday, it very well could have been EDS subbing for Wells at C.

I don't think there is a single poster here who posits that the Pack doesn't need a serviceable running game. One of the most consistent criticisms on this board is of M3's play-calling, that he abandons the run too early. So I think that is a bit of a straw-man.

As for Rodgers as the second coming, speaking for myself I am grateful that we have had 20 years of superlative quarterbacking but I doubt that ARod is Christ personified. I do think he has an awesome career QB rating, though. :-D

[KYPack]

Why !? Did we lose Scott Wells?

Ohh yea we did. Just like somehow a certain **punter that is LOCKED in at Seattle was allowed to get away.

**
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Special&cat=Punting&conference=NFL&year=season_2012&sort=411&old_category=Punting&old_group=Special

Masthay is third in the league in return average. That's why Ryan's getting his mail in Seattle now. He hits those boomers, but out kicks the coverage too much.

[woodbuck27]

we do not suck. the depleted (through injury and age) wr core aren't getting open quick/often enough, combined with the depleted (through injury and age) o-line's inability to keep the rush contained, makes rodgers hold the ball too long or force throws, which leads to sacks and turnovers. rebuilding takes some time. tt did a good job with the d this year. it's the o's turn next draft. we're good enough against most teams even in our current state. if mm will max protect, when the occasion calls for it, maybe rodgers can have more time to let the wrs get open. we'll win the division and probably win a playoff game. if we can get healthy and gel late...maybe go further.

Yup !

We're not 'as Packer fans' hearing the coffin being constructed yet. We're the 'only' positioned 'Wild Card' team at 7 wins (7-4). Hopefully we get healthier on both sides of the ball before it goes the other way.

In 2007 we saw our team go into New York and post an almost diametrically opposite result Vs the GIANTS (a 35-13 'W') on our way to a 13-3 record that season.

http://www.answers.com/topic/2007-green-bay-packers-season#Week_2:_at_New_York_Giants

After that game our results Vs the GIANTS have gone south. For whatever reason this team seems to have our number and personally I look at the HC's on opposing sides. Otherwise, we fare well against most teams. We need to kick it off and defeat Minny this week and get some confidence back.

Karma wise... Packer fans should choose to be positive about our quest for an NFCN Championship.

GO PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

Masthay is third in the league in return average. That's why Ryan's getting his mail in Seattle now. He hits those boomers, but out kicks the coverage too much.

Hi KY. Quite a week (week 12) in the Pro Pickem'. I exercised some grey cells there. LOL

I'm trying to find that statistic to see that comparison in terms of punt return average. Can you give me a LINK please.

Tim Masthay has more punts inside the 20 (26-22) and 10 yard lines (12-8). Jon Ryan leads in avg. punt (47.7 - 44.0)

[Upnorth]

Good to see you woody.
The fact I don't want to face is our oline. At the beginning of the year I thought our runs up the middle would suffer but our runs to the left and right would be better. Instead it is a whole bunch of suckitude (fun fact my blackberry believes suckitude is spelled correctly). Now admittedly this oline has two recent 1st round picks on IR but none of our rb's did anything special when Buluga was still in.
Another fact I don't want to face is our inability to generate consistent pass rush without Mathews. Going into the giants game I thought if we could still generate a pass rush on Manning without CMIII our future was bright. Anyone got a flashlight? Our secondary looks a. Better than last year, but without a rush a secondary can only do so much.
Third ugly fact is the realization we are snake bit with injuries that keep us from being elite. We can win against okay teams, but are missing the horses to beat the elite.
Last fact to drudge up, in Capers past he goes to a team, gives that team a huge turn around on d then they slowly fade over the next years. I am loosing (zool sp?) Faith in our DC DC.

[woodbuck27]

Hi KY. Quite a week (week 12) in the Pro Pickem'. I exercised some grey cells there. LOL

I'm trying to find that statistic to see that comparison in terms of punt return average. Can you give me a LINK please.

Tim Masthay has more punts inside the 20 (26-22) and 10 yard lines (12-8). Jon Ryan leads in avg. punt (47.7 - 44.0)

OK I'm good on that now KY:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Special&cat=Punting

Punting: Tim Masthay and the PACKERS:

53 punts... 43.2 avg... 1 Blocked.... 4 TB's... 26 - Inside the 20... 20 FC... 17 PR... 5.2 PR Avg.

Punting: Jon Ryan and Seattle:

49 punts... 47.7 avg... 0 Blocked.... 2 TB's... 22 - Inside the 20... 12 FC... 24 PR... 9.7 PR Avg.

[woodbuck27]

Good to see you woody.
The fact I don't want to face is our oline. At the beginning of the year I thought our runs up the middle would suffer but our runs to the left and right would be better. Instead it is a whole bunch of suckitude (fun fact my blackberry believes suckitude is spelled correctly). Now admittedly this oline has two recent 1st round picks on IR but none of our rb's did anything special when Buluga was still in.
Another fact I don't want to face is our inability to generate consistent pass rush without Mathews. Going into the giants game I thought if we could still generate a pass rush on Manning without CMIII our future was bright. Anyone got a flashlight? Our secondary looks a. Better than last year, but without a rush a secondary can only do so much.
Third ugly fact is the realization we are snake bit with injuries that keep us from being elite. We can win against okay teams, but are missing the horses to beat the elite.
Last fact to drudge up, in Capers past he goes to a team, gives that team a huge turn around on d then they slowly fade over the next years. I am loosing (zool sp?) Faith in our DC DC.

Hi Upnorth:

You don't need any mousemilk in your engine. It's firing on all cylinders. :wink:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Defense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2012&sort=411&old_category=Punting&old_group=Special

#14 Packers..11 G..22.3 PPG..348.1 YPG..103.8 R..244.3 P..**12 Picks..1 Pick6..#6 FF..1 DTD..433 T..61 PD..

*34.0 SACKS*

YPG = 18th NFL

** Picks = T-9th NFL

Tackles = 21st NFL

# FF = T-26th NFL

* SACKS = 3rd NFL


AP Pro32 comments about the GREEN BAY PACKERS.

The Associated Press – 17 hours ago

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-pro32-comments-packers-214711996--nfl.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CZTJbZQxwcAAA1NbK5_