Packers better without Shields?

[RashanGary]

Woodson is clearly a great zone player and can man up inside, on TE's/RB's. Hayward looks like a really instinctive zone player, and has done really well in man defense. Williams isn't great in zone, but he's good enough. Everyone seemed more sound back there today, in both types of coverages.

Shields is good, maybe even very good at man defense, but the inability to play zone either makes us very predictable and one dimensional on the back end, or we get shredded when we do play zone.

House did some good things, and bad. It will be interesting to see how he rounds out. Shields might be our 4th most effective corner, even if he's our 2nd best man corner.

[Brandon494]

Better when playing the Rams offense.

[digitaldean]

Givens was their only real passing threat. Helped them not having Amendola. That being said, Hayward is fast and instinctive. He may get burned once in awhile, but is kind of playing like Shields did his rookie year. Bright future for our secondary thanks to TT's drafting.

[Guiness]

Everyone's real quick to give up on Shields, first TC, and again now! I don't think he's so easily replaceable.

House and Hayward both looked pretty damn good though. An embarrassment of riches at CB is a pretty damn good thing.

[mraynrand]

no

[denverYooper]

no
this

[George Cumby]

Wrong thread

[mission]

Everyone's real quick to give up on Shields, first TC, and again now! I don't think he's so easily replaceable.

House and Hayward both looked pretty damn good though. An embarrassment of riches at CB is a pretty damn good thing.

Never would have thought we'd be saying that this season. And just think -- we had Jarrett Bush starting against the 49ers.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Never would have thought we'd be saying that this season. And just think -- we had Jarrett Bush starting against the 49ers.

Now we just need to get a S and the defense will be looking fantastic.

[pittstang5]

Now we just need to get a S and the defense will be looking fantastic.

I'd rather have another or a proven pass rusher. Secondary looked good today, but remember, it's the Rams - they're not known for their "High-Octane" offense. Didn't see much of a pass rush today, considering the front 7 was playing against a mis-matched o-line.

[Upnorth]

Like cheesehead said we need a safety. I would also like to point out the rams are not exactly a good air offence team. Our passing d was good not great. Props to Haywood.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Take away some shitty calls and Shields is having a good year.

[Lurker64]

I would play Shields at RCB, and Hayward in every passing down subpackage (so leave Woodson at S, and play Hayward inside).

Shields' ability to keep up with more or less any RB out there is something you want on the field.

[denverYooper]

I'd rather have another or a proven pass rusher. Secondary looked good today, but remember, it's the Rams - they're not known for their "High-Octane" offense. Didn't see much of a pass rush today, considering the front 7 was playing against a mis-matched o-line.

Green Bay is leading the league in sacks. They had 3 yesterday, a bit under their average of 3.42. And the Rams played a lot of small ball yesterday.

[Joemailman]

I would play Shields at RCB, and Hayward in every passing down subpackage (so leave Woodson at S, and play Hayward inside).

Shields' ability to keep up with more or less any RB out there is something you want on the field.

I think Hayward is Woodson's heir-apparent. Smart enough to learn a bunch of different positions, great ball skills, and big enough to line up safety.

[Iron Mike]

Like cheesehead said we need a safety. I would also like to point out the rams are not exactly a good air offence team. Our passing d was good not great. Props to Haywood.

Ha! Ha! Ha! From now on, I'm gonna hyphenate his last name and refer to him as Hayward-Jablome..... :)

[Pugger]

Never would have thought we'd be saying that this season. And just think -- we had Jarrett Bush starting against the 49ers.

I suspect the 9ers are glad they played us the first week rather than now...

[Pugger]

We still need to be better against the run. Not having Raji in there probably doesn't help but the Rams ran all over us at times. This week we might be getting a break against the Jags with MJD hobbling.

[denverYooper]

I think Hayward is Woodson's heir-apparent. Smart enough to learn a bunch of different positions, great ball skills, and big enough to line up safety.

Hayward has put himself in the conversation for DROY.

[denverYooper]

https://twitter.com/PFF_BryanHall/status/260379073895866368


Hayward continuing to show he's best rookie CB in the league.Targeted 10 times but only allowed 4 receptions.QB rating of 33.8

[Brandon494]

Woodson needs to stay at safety and let Hayward and House come in for nickel and dime situations IMO.

[Brandon494]

Funny how I was reading an article a few days before the game about how GB struck gold with Cobb and Hayward and then they go out and perform like that. :wave:

[Fritz]

So I did not pay close attention to House, but I'm curious as to how he played. He was the starter early in training camp. Can he play zone? How does he do supporting the run defense?

[pbmax]

So I did not pay close attention to House, but I'm curious as to how he played. He was the starter early in training camp. Can he play zone? How does he do supporting the run defense?

Looked fit and played alright. Got victimized on the TD by biting and waiting too long for an inside move when the WR went outside down the sideline. Looked rusty perhaps, but not injured.

[The Shadow]

Hayward seems to possess a fair amount of Charles Woodson's instincts. With the coming salary cap/resigning issues, I think Woodson is gone next year - and Hayward will be used in a Woodson-like role.
House was solid, I thought - especially on reacting to slants. He was burned on the td, but this would seem to be part of the learning process.

[Pugger]

With Woodson out for a while it is a good thing we didn't dump Shields, huh?

[George Cumby]

Hayward seems to possess a fair amount of Charles Woodson's instincts. With the coming salary cap/resigning issues, I think Woodson is gone next year - and Hayward will be used in a Woodson-like role.
House was solid, I thought - especially on reacting to slants. He was burned on the td, but this would seem to be part of the learning process.

When he was drafted, Hayward's coach in college said described him as being "weird smart" or something like that. i.e.: He just knows when to be in the right place at the right time.

[pbmax]

Weird smart would normally worry me in a mad scientist sort of way. For football, I welcome it.

Shields talents fit a lot of the defenses the Packers play. Remember, everyone wants the Pack in man to man underneath. He can still learn zone well enough to be Tramontana serviceable in zone.

[mission]

House looked great outside of that touchdown play. Really aggressive. Good body control, breaking up passes without getting there too soon. Looked like the guy we saw in the preseason. Looks a lot bigger than Hayward... just from a second year bulk-up perspective. If we can get one of these safeties to make a big jump this could be a very, very good secondary with -- dare I say it -- Tramon Williams one of the weak links.

[rbaloha1]

Yes.

SS has too many mental lapses which results in big td receptions.

Upon the drafting of Hayward expected CH to become the starter. Dude is tailor made for the Capers cover 2. Comparing to Asante Samuel is a good one.

Never accepted the lack of a good 40 time preventing CH from running deep with receivers. Anticipation abilities easily overcome the lack of SS type speed.

SS benefitted from a poor traning camp and injuries.

[Smidgeon]

House looked great outside of that touchdown play. Really aggressive. Good body control, breaking up passes without getting there too soon. Looked like the guy we saw in the preseason. Looks a lot bigger than Hayward... just from a second year bulk-up perspective. If we can get one of these safeties to make a big jump this could be a very, very good secondary with -- dare I say it -- Tramon Williams one of the weak links.

You may dare say it, but I don't think it'd be accurate. If a safety makes a jump (money's on McMillian), and if Hayward and Shields continue to develop, the weak link would be (in my opinion) Burnett--though to call him "weak" would be to only do so in comparison. I'm still waiting for him to become all pro.

[BobDobbs]

You don't cut the fastest guy on your team who would start for a bunch of teams and is still learning to play the position.

But, where is he on our depth chart?

Shields and Hayward are a really interesting comparison. They're almost the opposite of one another. Shields is really unpolished with tons of athletic ability, Hayward has middlin athletic ability and is really mentally and technically tight. My gut is that Shields has a higher ceiling, I don't know if he'll get there. But, this year he had an offseason to focus on his tackling and it's improved a ton.

Heyward is on his receiver all the time. Givens has a ton of speed and he played him well on both the deep passes. They're just so different that its tough to decide who plays where.

The thing I don't get are all the comparisons of Heyward to Woodson. They are totally different players. Woodson sells out his body any time he gets the chance, Heyward is an effective, but tactical tackler. Woodson will gamble when he thinks he knows the play, Heyward is more conservative. Woodson is aging, but in his prime he was one of the best athletes on the field, Heyward played at Vanderbilt for a reason.

Right now I'd play Tramon and Shields outside. Hayward in the nickle. For the dime, seemed like they liked Bush inside there in preseason because of his blitzing. I'd go with McMillian as the dime corner and leave House on the bench for now.

[smuggler]

Only an idiot would want to remove Sam Shields from his team.

[Smeefers]

I can't take credit for this, but I heard it somewhere:
Sam shields could get flagged for pass interference while sitting on the bench.

So uh, I don't remember SS having any mental lapses this year that resulted in big touchdowns. Maybe that's just me though. Who knows.

[run pMc]

It depends --

Better without him on the team?
-- No. It's a passing league and secondary depth is important...especially with the inexperience GB has there.

Better without him as a starter?
-- Doubtful. In theory the TC battle should have helped sort that out. Since he's done the job good enough to help win a SB and is still young I'd give him a shot at the job and switch him out if not.

[denverYooper]

NO!!!

[denverYooper]

NO NO NO!!!

[denverYooper]

At least Shields would just lose his guy deep once in a game.

[pbmax]

No.

[Joemailman]

Kudos to House for filling in nicely for Shields by getting called for a penalty on an absolutely horrible call.

[rbaloha1]

Yes.

Less communication errors and getting burned by double moves. Woodson is the big loss not SS.