BRADY HATERS

[b bulldog]

Why do you say that Brady's championships and Super Bowl MVP's are his only because of the strong Pats D?

[MadtownPacker]

Maybe because they have only happened when he had that great D you mentioned? Lets see how he performs when he has to put the game on his shoulders, like say, last year in Denver????? :idea:

[jack's smirking revenge]

I didn't say that. Don't point your finger at me. Wanna take this outside?

tyler

[Partial]

He had a great D, but the man is ridiculous in his own right. He is every bit as good as an elway or a favre in their primes in my opinion. He may not have the cannon, but he's got the confidence in his arm to make all the throws

[b bulldog]

More posts needed please!

[MadtownPacker]

Why dont you respond to my reply? Not much to say about that game huh? Sure is easy for you to bring up Favre's playoff failures.

Lame.

[MadtownPacker]

November 19th, 2006 - You will have your chance to run your Brady-groupie mouth if YOUR man gets the V over OURS.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Honestly, much like the '96 Packers, they go hand-in-hand. Favre was amazing, but he was also amazing because he had a great defense on the other side of the ball, shutting down opponents and getting turnovers. Brady's accomplishments should not be minimized based on another team strength. Put someone else in his place--say, Bledsoe--and the Pats could've easily been perrenial Super Bowl losers like the Bills were in the 90s. Brady is a talented QB and should be recognized as such.

You do have a valid point though Mad. Let's how he responds to the adversity around him this year, with all of the changes swirling around the Pats franchise. Every good thing comes to an end eventually.

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

So, have we walked into an inside argument between Madtown and Bulldog? Scrapfest over who is better--Favre or Brady?

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

I admit, he is a good QB, but one of the all-time greats? Lets wait and see.

Besides, the dude is from SF!! Cmon!!!

[jack's smirking revenge]

I don't think any player should be annointed as "ONE OF THE GREATS" until he's filed his retirement papers. Yes, Favre is on that path, but it is also VERY possible--though not plausible--that he could reach the INT record and NOT get the TD record. Would he be remembered as one of the greats then? Is Blanda remembered as "one of the greatest QBs of all time"? Open-ended question meant for discussion...

tyler

[b bulldog]

he definitely is one of the great whether he breaks both records or just one of them. He isn't a top 5 though because of his decision making and you just can't ignore that.

[b bulldog]

Jack, he does have adversity this season as last season but when he had the chance to be more than a one time wonder(Ron Wolf), he got the job done period.

[BananaMan]

Yeah, Brady's decision making last year @ Denver was great. That pass to Bailey was put right on the mark.

[b bulldog]

At least he didn't do it 6 times, hahaha

[FavreChild]

Poor bulldog - you are just asking for it. :wink:

I don't hate Brady, or even dislike him (other than the Michigan thing). And I even liked those Visa commercials last year.

Now I have no statistics to back this claim up, mind you, but Favre will always win the "intangibles" category. He is the more exciting QB to watch and has more lore surrounding his storied career. Which is pretty much true of Brett Favre vs. any other QB. That counts for a lot with many people.

[MadtownPacker]

At least he didn't do it 6 times, hahaha
What kind of Packer fan are you anyways? Like a punk-ass trick bears fan is how you come off.

[Partial]

Why dont you respond to my reply? Not much to say about that game huh? Sure is easy for you to bring up Favre's playoff failures.

Lame.

Good quarterbacks can't win on their own. New England was the 4 or 5 seed. I think Favre had a worse game against Atlanta, St. Louis, and Minn then Brady had versus the Broncos.

[b bulldog]

I'm a huge Packers fan but I get sick of people 's excuses and oversight in regards to Brett.

[Partial]

I don't think any player should be annointed as "ONE OF THE GREATS" until he's filed his retirement papers. Yes, Favre is on that path, but it is also VERY possible--though not plausible--that he could reach the INT record and NOT get the TD record. Would he be remembered as one of the greats then? Is Blanda remembered as "one of the greatest QBs of all time"? Open-ended question meant for discussion...

tyler

If he's first in INT and second in TD he'll still be an all-time great. He'll be looked at as the Andre Agassi of Football, just a wild kid early in his career, who grew up in quality of character but never in the way he played with the wild, balls to the walls attitude

[BlueBrewer]

I admit, he is a good QB, but one of the all-time greats? Lets wait and see.

Besides, the dude is from SF!! Cmon!!!

Agreed, he is very good qb, but lets see if he is still doing it in 10 yearsa before we hand him the crown.

[BlueBrewer]

Favre has over 3000 more pass attempts than Blanda, those numbers are skewed.

[BananaMan]

bulldog, it's not that we're all hating on Brady. He's a fine quarterback. It's that you keep on bashing Favre.

Favre WAS the better quarterback, Favre IS the better quarterback, and WILL STAY the better quarterback.

Get over your hate of Favre already. It's annoying. Of course everyone here will love Favre, we're Packer fans. What, do you really expect everyone to say "Brady is the better QB"? Go to a Bears forum and bash Favre all you want.

[]{ilr]3]

I'm a huge Packers fan but I get sick of people 's excuses and oversight in regards to Brett.

I am sure in 4-5 years they will be saying the same thing about brady when he makes a mistake. How ever Brady had his best year statistically last year i think, so that show a little bit that his is worth his wieght in salt.

I for one am glad that the Dolphins are a much improved team this year and hope they will take the division. The AFC east has been even worse than the NFC North for years even though no one ever talks about that because the Patriots are in it. Maybe if they happened to have one atleast won of those SB games by more than 3 points I would concider them a Dyntasty but I dont. Now the 92,93 & 95 Cowboys, that was a true Dynasty!

[Charles Woodson]

Yea dolphins will overthrow that pats this year as the king of the east. I mean the patriots had there time and are on the downfall, the dolphins are building up and will be a force this year

[]{ilr]3]

I just dont know if I can stand that STUPID barrel roll Cullpepper does! OMFG, does he know what kind of a idiot he looks like? :shock:

I was really pissed when they showed that they put that into Madden 2007! :evil:

[Charles Woodson]

Not to get off subject...but is anybody gana get madden tommorow?

[b bulldog]

Miami won't overthrow the Pats this season although they will be better.

[Mazzin]

I put $10 dollars down on it at EB Games in the mall, and I can't go get it till next paycheck! GAS IS A BITCH! update me on how it is.

[Packnut]

I'm a huge Packers fan but I get sick of people 's excuses and oversight in regards to Brett.


Just as I get sick of people who believe playing QB is the NFL is a 1 man job. The talent around or the coach and system don't matter. That is the whole problem with guys like you.

[b bulldog]

I only say that because of the 4 apologists but all games are won in the trenches but turnovers can lose games.

[Packnut]

I only say that because of the 4 apologists but all games are won in the trenches but turnovers can lose games.


A QB is NOTHING without an O line and good WR's AND a solid running game and it does'nt hurt to have some kind of faith that your D will get the ball back. This is the thing that for the life of me I can't comprehend. Yeah, Favre took chances last season that blew up in his face. So guys like you believe he should have ate the ball or took the sack. Great, then we turn the ball over to our mighty 23rd ranked run defense and watch teams run all over us.

Why is it so hard to see that a wild uncontrollable Favre did'nt have ANY other options? He had a lousy coach, terrible play calling, no run game, no O line and 1 WR who every defense rolled their coverage to. Oh yeah, and a defense that COULD NOT STOP THE RUN. Sure, lets hold him soley accountable......Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

[TPF]

You can't have a good QB without a good o-line. But Brady behind Texas' o-line and he's nowhere near as good.

[b bulldog]

Favre behind the Texans line throws 40 pics.

[b bulldog]

Maybe 50

[Scott Campbell]

Maybe 50

And the Texans make the playoffs.

[Charles Woodson]

ok look these are imo, both qbs best years...they were also early years, bretts 5th and bradys 6th





Year Team Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2005 New England Patriots 530 334 63.0 4110 7.75 71 26 14 26/188 59 9 92.3


Year Team Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

1995 Green Bay Packers 570 359 63.0 4413 7.74 99 38 13 33/217 59 5 99.5

[BooHoo]

One thing you can say about Brady is that he is always cool as a cucumber. He doesn't seem to sweat even when the pressure is on. I don't think he has any great abilities per se but he always seems to win. He is a good quality quarterback but I need to see a few more very good years from him before I vote him into the HOF (his superbowl appearances give him an edge).

[HarveyWallbangers]

This thread blows.

[vince]

I hate to say it, guys, but Tom Brady ranks 11th all-time in QB Rating at 85.9...


BUT WAIT...

Who's that ahead of him? Why, it's BRETT FAVRE! #7 all-time at 86.9...

bulldog, you should just quit now.

[vince]

I hate to say it, guys, but Tom Brady ranks 11th all-time in QB Rating at 85.9...


BUT WAIT...

Who's that ahead of him? Why, it's BRETT FAVRE! #7 all-time at 86.9...

bulldog, you should just quit now. Every one of your arguments have been thoroughly debunked.

[b bulldog]

Oh yeah, who has more Lombardi's and who is known for being Mr.Cool under pressure, not Favre lol

[GrnBay007]

Oh yeah, who has more Lombardi's and who is known for being Mr.Cool under pressure, not Favre lol

bulldog, they are calling you......

Pats.com :mrgreen: :razz:

[b bulldog]

Pats.com, I'm a Brady fan not a Pats fan but some in here put to much into what Havel writes. "Please believe me, Brett and I are best friends"

[Packnut]

Hell, I'm a Brady fan too. However I also recognize he plays for a GREAT coach with a solid scheme who has a knack for getting the right players. The Pats O line is normally very good and they seem to always have an above avg run game.

[b bulldog]

I agree with you, sounds like the Holmgren years, correct?

[Packnut]

I agree with you, sounds like the Holmgren years, correct?

Yep, we certainly agree on that.

[Deputy Nutz]

I am a huge Pats fan, and also a Brady fan. Why Bulldog has to make a big deal about comparing him to Favre is beyond me. Brady's first Super Bowl is the most impressive basically because he did carry the offense through that game.

Brady is another Montana, plain and simple, just like Favre was cut out of the John Elway mold

[b bulldog]

My point is that after the Pats game last season in Denver, I stated that Brady was responsible for that loss and he played like crap. One never hears that about the "great one".

[HarveyWallbangers]

So, you feel the need to bring it up every two months?

Brady = Aikman

[b bulldog]

Maybe, Favre=most career pics and a over the hill QB. We'll see when it is all said and done who will be thought of highr, Brett's legacy is sliding!

[woodbuck27]

Favre has over 3000 more pass attempts than Blanda, those numbers are skewed.

Nice "by the way" - point for you BlueBrewer. :mrgreen:

Favre !!!!!

[SD GB fan]

well good thing hes sliding from a vry high mountain

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here you say, you'd like to see Brett cut:
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=4425&highlight=#4425

Here you want Brett traded:
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=496&highlight=favre

Here you bitch about Brett being allowed to skip camp:
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=1046&highlight=favre

Here you say Favre is one of the most overrated players in the NFL:
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=1299&highlight=favre

Here's another dig at Favre:
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=2279&highlight=favre

This is just from a few months on this forum. It's even worse at JSO. It's tiring. Tank has Thompson. Bulldog has Favre. They are equally obsessed.

[woodbuck27]

bulldog, it's not that we're all hating on Brady. He's a fine quarterback. It's that you keep on bashing Favre.

Favre WAS the better quarterback, Favre IS the better quarterback, and WILL STAY the better quarterback.

Get over your hate of Favre already. It's annoying. Of course everyone here will love Favre, we're Packer fans. What, do you really expect everyone to say "Brady is the better QB"? Go to a Bears forum and bash Favre all you want.

You win "the PACKER FAN Dowwwnnn on Packer fan" AWARD.

Congratulations BananaMan !!

[b bulldog]

Harv has a crush on brett and leads the apologist club. I do think that with where this team is, his HUGE$$ could be put to much better use than on an over the hill QB. oNCE AGAIN, WHAT'S BIGGER, bRETT OR the team? I'll keep bitching about a player that leads the league in a terrible stat and is allowed to leave camp. Bring them all up cause I stand behind every post I've posted rather than some who just want to stand behind Brett.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm thinking bulldog is jealous that Favre is getting good publicity from one meaningless preseason game, and felt the need to bash him again. It will get worse in the regular season--especially if Favre has a bad game. I've thrown this out there, but I think bulldog is really Mark Chmura. He really isn't a Michigan backer. He's from Boston, and that's why he likes Brady. He's obsessed with him.

[woodbuck27]

We don't want too much of this stuff rubbed on Favre next monday.

http://www.packerpalace.com/palace/bengay.jpg

PACKERS AT BENGALS Mon. 28 August 2006.

PACKER FAN FAITH !!!

[b bulldog]

Boy, your real clever!

[MadtownPacker]

My point is that after the Pats game last season in Denver, I stated that Brady was responsible for that loss and he played like crap. One never hears that about the "great one".
Favre played like crap last season after around week 6.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Boy, your real clever!

I find this funny.

[b bulldog]

That's real obvious except he played rather poorly in Detroit and against Cleveland last season. I was at both games.

[woodbuck27]

I LOVE THE PACKERS - THE ONLY NFL TEAM I LOVE - WILL EVER LOVE.

I Like "the Pats" - my second team and Tom Brady is cool.

Brett Favre ?? He's "the SHIT " !!!!!!!!!!

GO FAVRE !!!!!!!!!!! GO PACKERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's funny. I used to like Brady, but now I find myself rooting for him to fail miserably because of some Packer fans obsession with ripping Favre to support Brady.

[b bulldog]

gREAT BUT LOVE THE TEAM MORE THAN ONE PLAYER. Actually if one was to fall in love with a particular player, Reggie should be the guy.

[Homer Jay]

I used to think Brady was the best active qb, but, after that playoff loss, no way he is in the top 10.

[b bulldog]

Fine, I won't try to change your mind although he'll be in the playoffs again this season, hopefully brett will LEAD THE PACK BACK IN!!!

[pbmax]

So, you feel the need to bring it up every two months?

Brady = Aikman
C'mon Harvey! Emmitt Smith versus Antowain Smith? Deion Branch(or Troy Brown) versus Micheal Irvin? David Givens versus Alvin Harper? Ben Watson/Daniel Graham/Mike Vrabel versus Jay Novacek?

Tell me you are just baiting bulldog. And, apparently, me.

[pbmax]

I used to think Brady was the best active qb, but, after that playoff loss, no way he is in the top 10.
On the basis of one game you drop an active player 10 spots? Is your brainpan low on fluid?

[Homer Jay]

I used to think Brady was the best active qb, but, after that playoff loss, no way he is in the top 10.
On the basis of one game you drop an active player 10 spots? Is your brainpan low on fluid?

Relax, I forgot the smiley face I guess. I'm just using bulldogs theory of 4 playoff games dropping Favre out of the top 10 all time. Both arguments are ridiculous in my opinion.

I wouldn't rate Brady the best active qb, but he is certainly top 5 or 6.

[b bulldog]

I'm having fun, someone needs to rattle some cages! keep'em coming!

[GBRulz]

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/phd/PHD302/OS40024.JPG

Why must people bring up the same arguments all the time?

[Bretsky]

Brady is one of the top 2 QB's in the game right now. Honestly I have a hard time deciding who to annoint as the best QB between Manning and Brady. But I'd put Brady as the best in clutch time. Yes, he had a lousy playoff game last year; but everybody has bad games and Brady will have more good and bad ones.

BTW, Brett Favre remains one of the top 5 QB's of all time.


Cheers,
B

[b bulldog]

B knows how to argue, give a little, try to take a little. :D

[GBRulz]

B knows how to argue, give a little, try to take a little. :D

B is just an ass kisser :wink:

[b bulldog]

yeah well sometimes that goes a long way although I like the way he keeps his composure. I admire that about him :wink:

[HarveyWallbangers]

What about the 139 wins, bulldog? Third most all-time. Not impressive in the free agency era? Isn't that a big stat?

Most wins by a team during his time with the Packers? Not impressive?

You like to point out his "colossal failures" in the last 4 playoffs. What about his 10-5 record and 93+ QB rating in his first 15 playoff games.

You point out his failure in 2003, but fail to acknowledge that in two playoff games in 2003 he was 41 of 65, 493 yards, 3 TDs, and 0 picks in the two playoff games before his forced interception in OT against the Eagles. You can blame him for the mistake he made, but we both know that the Packers had plenty of chances to win that game long before that last throw, and you are being completely unfair on that one.

[b bulldog]

hIS TWO MOST IMPRESSIVE STATS TO ME ARE THE CAREER WINS AND THE STREAK. What have you done for me lately is what is judged in pro sports.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What have you done for me lately is what is judged in pro sports.

Not when you are judging all-time greats. You judge their entire "body of work."

By your account, then Brady sucks. What he has done lately is choke away the Patriots playoff game last year.

[GBRulz]

www.absolutebrady.com

bulldog, when did you take your website down?

[b bulldog]

Harv, you are really childish and you are the poster I least care to post to but I'm sure you could care less and that is fine but I knew you would bring up last year when Brett has done it basicly since 97. Tell me that this isn't so Harv, tell me he hasn't played like shit since 97, tell me.

[Bretsky]

B knows how to argue, give a little, try to take a little. :D

B is just an ass kisser :wink:


For the record I only kiss chicks asses :wink: :mrgreen:

[b bulldog]

bY THE WAY, i MEANT PLAYOFFS SO YOU CAN STOP SAYING HIS REGUALR SEASONS OR WHATEVER YOU WILL SPOUT NEXT.

[Terry]

yeah well sometimes that goes a long way although I like the way he keeps his composure. I admire that about him :wink:

Why is it that Brady keeping his composure is so much of a factor in figuring that he's one of the best in the game, while Bart Starr is dissed so much even by Packer fans, even though he was an absolute master at keeping composure?

[Scott Campbell]

Is this going to be an annual thing Bulldog?

[b bulldog]

It already is, isn't it?

[woodbuck27]

My point is that after the Pats game last season in Denver, I stated that Brady was responsible for that loss and he played like crap. One never hears that about the "great one".
Favre played like crap last season after around week 6.

Yes ! He played badly.

He certainly seemed done after the 7th game or the Bengals Game . . .Ohhhh !!!!

Can you see that replay coming up next Monday Night . . of the fan out on the field late in the Bengals game . . with Favre coming in for the kill. It plays in my head. :mrgreen:

I wonder if they will show that on ESPN?

PACKER FAITH !!

[GBRulz]

Terry, bulldog was actually referring to Bretsky about keeping his composure.


Although it does sound like one of his lame ass reasons about why Brady is better, I'll give ya that!

[b bulldog]

Why are people who do call out Brett labeled here? Seems a bit insecure.

[Bretsky]

Is this going to be an annual thing Bulldog?


Annual ? I thought it was quarterly. With accelerated updates each time Favre has a bad game. :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

It already is, isn't it?

Favre in 2006 ?

Td's and Picks b bulldog ?

How many TD's and how many picks for Brett Favre in 2006?

[b bulldog]

Although most would like his bad gameS swept under the rug, I won't allow it. I feel t is my duty as a Packer fan to spout about who is playing bad.

[GBRulz]

they are not labeled.

Nor do they create multiple threads about the same freaken topic to bash Favre.

You start these threads, then nobody replies for 10 minutes and you post again saying "what, no takers?"

Someone needs attention tonight. :roll:

[GBRulz]

Is this going to be an annual thing Bulldog?

Anal is more like it

[HarveyWallbangers]

bY THE WAY, i MEANT PLAYOFFS SO YOU CAN STOP SAYING HIS REGUALR SEASONS OR WHATEVER YOU WILL SPOUT NEXT.

So you think he was bad in the 1998 playoff game vs. San Francisco, the 2001 playoff game vs. San Francisco, and the 2003 playoff game vs. Seattle?

Brady was friggin 16 for 27 for 145 and won Super Bowl MVP. If that doesn't tell you just how good his team around him was, then nothing will. When's the last time Brett could have had those stats and the Packers would have still managed to win a playoff game? 1997 maybe.


Harv, you are really childish and you are the poster I least care to post to but I'm sure you could care less

The feeling is mutual, and you are right.

[Bretsky]

Why are people who do call out Brett labeled here? Seems a bit insecure.


I think you are mistakingly using people as plural; to my knowledge you are the only poster who judges Favre as brashly as you do.

We are all willing to admit he played like shit last year. We are also willing, as you should be, to indicate part of the reason he played like shit was a broken OL and WR's going down with injuries....aka...no supporting cast.

We are all willing to admit Favre played poorly against the Rams (although they werent' winning regardless that game) and sub par versus Atlanta. But we also feel he played very well is some playoff runs as well.

I haven't seen you ever give credit to Favre for how well he played in the playoffs up to the interception in the 4th and 26 game; that is unfair. The Packers were far more talented than Phily and Reid outcoached Sherman in several aspects. It was a boneheaded throw, but one that should have never needed to be made. I dont' want to relive those scenarios, but I certiainly don't blame Favre for that game.

With examples like this, you call me an apologist.

But by not even acknowledging how well Favre played in the two playoff games to that point, you show how strong your anti Favre bias is.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I don't think any player should be annointed as "ONE OF THE GREATS" until he's filed his retirement papers. Yes, Favre is on that path, but it is also VERY possible--though not plausible--that he could reach the INT record and NOT get the TD record. Would he be remembered as one of the greats then? Is Blanda remembered as "one of the greatest QBs of all time"? Open-ended question meant for discussion...

tyler

If he's first in INT and second in TD he'll still be an all-time great. He'll be looked at as the Andre Agassi of Football, just a wild kid early in his career, who grew up in quality of character but never in the way he played with the wild, balls to the walls attitude

Spot-on perspective from a Packer fan. He'll ALWAYS be an all-time great in our eyes. But there are 31 other teams in the NFL. If he gets the INT record, there are 31 other opinions out there of who an "all-time" great should be. Someone who holds the record for most interceptions and record for consecutive starts, but only won the SB once in his career, and, due to his struggles over his last few years, never managed to get the TD record too, could POSSIBLY not be viewed as great as we Packer fans do.

Perhaps I'm siding a "little bit" with bulldog. Not in his "Brady is Great" argument, but the perspective that Favre is a God to we Packer fans. He may not be held as highly as we do throughout the league if he goes out on a bad note.

No doubt that Favre is a great QB. I'm not arguing that, but I truly think what he does over the next year (or two) will determine how people--outside of the Cheesehead family--remember him.

To us, he will always be an "all-time great". Survey a throng of 49er fans and see what they think. Or Cowboy fans. Or Steeler fans.

I think you may find the answer different depending on the audience.

Just playing devil's advocate, as I so love to do.


tyler

[b bulldog]

I said up to 97 which meant the 98 Super bowl. Brett made a childish throw against Philly and they shouldn't have been in that position but they wre and what did he do? I think he was awesome up and till the Bronco's pulled one of the biggest upsets in NFL history and after that he hasn't shown much imo.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I guess a good clarification would be: are we talking about an NFL all-time great or a Packer all-time great?

Two different answers, I believe.

tyler

[GBRulz]

Spot-on perspective from a Packer fan. He'll ALWAYS be an all-time great in our eyes. But there are 31 other teams in the NFL. If he gets the INT record, there are 31 other opinions out there of who an "all-time" great should be. Someone who holds the record for most interceptions and record for consecutive starts, but only won the SB once in his career, and, due to his struggles over his last few years, never managed to get the TD record too, could POSSIBLY not be viewed as great as we Packer fans do.

Perhaps I'm siding a "little bit" with bulldog. Not in his "Brady is Great" argument, but the perspective that Favre is a God to we Packer fans. He may not be held as highly as we do throughout the league if he goes out on a bad note.

No doubt that Favre is a great QB. I'm not arguing that, but I truly think what he does over the next year (or two) will determine how people--outside of the Cheesehead family--remember him.

To us, he will always be an "all-time great". Survey a throng of 49er fans and see what they think. Or Cowboy fans. Or Steeler fans.

I think you may find the answer different depending on the audience.

Just playing devil's advocate, as I so love to do.


tyler

I see your point Jack, but most other team fans have more respect for favre than our so called Packer fan bulldog here. That's what irritates me.

I can't remember which thread because there are so many anti Favre threads that bulldog has created tonight, but Bretsky said it perfectly. That none of us are afraid to admit when Favre has a bad game. But none of us dwell on that. That is the big difference here.

[b bulldog]

Don Hutson is the greatest Packer imo and Reggie/Brett/Ray IS THE SECOND GREATEST.

[woodbuck27]

Don Hutson is the greatest Packer imo and Reggie/Brett/Ray IS THE SECOND GREATEST.

SOLID !

[HarveyWallbangers]

Don Hutson is the greatest Packer imo and Reggie/Brett/Ray IS THE SECOND GREATEST.

Hutson was one of the top two WRs of all-time.
Reggie was the best DE of all-time.
Nitschke was one of the top three LBs of all-time.

I can't rank Reggie with the other three though because he only played 6 years in Green Bay.

[Homer Jay]

So if Favre breaks all the records, including INTs, that one stat takes him out of consideration for top all time qb? You would just throw out the fact that he is the only 3 time NFL MVP? Forgot the fact that he set all the other records because of one bad record?

Seriously, bulldog, who are your top 5 all time qbs? I'd be interested in yours too jack.

For the record, mine in no specific order: Favre, Marino, Elway, Montana and Unitas.

[the_idle_threat]

What have you done for me lately is what is judged in pro sports.

Not when you are judging all-time greats. You judge their entire "body of work."

By your account, then Brady sucks. What he has done lately is choke away the Patriots playoff game last year.


What was that ... :?:

I think I heard a bitch-slap! :razz:

[Terry]

Terry, bulldog was actually referring to Bretsky about keeping his composure.


Oh, whoops! Thanks for that. Hell, I didn't even know Bretsky was a quarterback. :)

As a general comment on this thread, I don't know why Favre defenders keep conceding that he played like shit last year (Favre, not Bretsky). Actually, if you look at the first third of the season, Brett probably played as well as he has since 1997. With all the losing, he probably just got frantic. Who knows? The only thing that all those interceptions shows me is that Brett might really have been sincere all this time, in all those comments he's made about not caring for records.

Too much is made out of the interceptions.

Does everyone think that Paul Newman is at least a pretty good actor? I sure do - and better than 'pretty good'. Yet, I've seen at least one performance from Newman that was one of the most embarrassing and amateurish efforts at acting that I've ever seen from a pro. So what?

[RIPackerFan]

I have had the Brady-Favre discussion way too many times here in NE.

Right now, the Patriots are a team in transition, very similar to the Packers after the Superbowl wins. Their coaching staff is getting poached, the players are getting poached, and it is getting harder and harder to get the players they want (since all of their former coaches are implementing the same scheme).

So we are lucky – we will get to see how Brady does as the talent around him crumbles. I have a feeling that Belicheck will be gone in a few years – so we will see how Brady does without the perceived “best” coach in the league.

At that time, in about 6 years, we can make a comparison. Until then, trying to compare them both is near impossible, because of the stages both are in their careers – as you can see in this thread, both sides take different parts of each of their careers and use it to their advantage. Until you can look at their entire body of work will you be able to judge them both.

In a sense, Favre is lucky since the hard work is done. While having a bad year last year, he has consistently been one of the better QBs in the league since he has been playing (14 yrs I think). That is a significant accomplishment and one that it nearly impossible to duplicate. He has numerous records, the respect of the entire league, and the love of the fans.

Brady has rings and five good years. However, until he has a little more under his belt – you can’t really compare overall greatness.

Think about it – in 20 yrs, when both players have been retired for 10 – 15 yrs, if Brady does not win another Superbowl or put up any stats of significance, do you really think that people will think that Brady is better than Favre? While Favre had a bad year last year, that will be forgotten (like Emmit’s years in AZ or Deion’s years in Baltimore). Then all people will have is some highlight plays (which Favre certainly has more of) and stats (which Favre will have more of – and be the leader of). The INTs stat will go down like Babe Ruth’s strike out statistics – showing Favre’s willingness to take chances to get the “home run”, which eventually will be seen as slightly positive.

Brady has the chance to be better than Favre – all-time, but a lot more time and excellent play needs to take place by Brady before we even start comparing the two.

[jack's smirking revenge]

So if Favre breaks all the records, including INTs, that one stat takes him out of consideration for top all time qb? You would just throw out the fact that he is the only 3 time NFL MVP? Forgot the fact that he set all the other records because of one bad record?

Seriously, bulldog, who are your top 5 all time qbs? I'd be interested in yours too jack.

For the record, mine in no specific order: Favre, Marino, Elway, Montana and Unitas.

Well, first of all, I don't believe that you can have an "ACTIVE" QB in an "all-time" ranking. As Harvey suggested, you have to look at the culmination of a full career to determine who an "all-time" great is. Thus, Favre can't be on that list yet. Other than the start record, list to me what records he has broken thus far in his career....(and, no, you can't play the "he'll have this record in 2006 card")...

Here's my top5 list of all-time greats...

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Marino (he has to be because he holds the key records)
4. Unitas
5. Young

Upon retirement, and unless he totally implodes and embarasses himself before he retires, Favre makes this list.

This list could easily be expanded to include Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Troy Aikman, Joe Namath and even Terry Bradshaw.

tyler

[HarveyWallbangers]

Other than the start record, list to me what records he has broken thus far in his career....(and, no, you can't play the "he'll have this record in 2006 card")...

Right now, he has a lot of records like most consecutive 3000 yard seasons, most 30 TD seasons, most MVPs, etc. He doesn't have the career marks, but even if he doesn't get Marino's records, he'll be second in TDs, second in yards, second in completions, and at least third in total wins. He'll also have 12 winning seasons to hang his hat on (in his first 13 years)--with one 8-8 season in 1999 and one (or possibly two) losing records at the end of his career. I think he ranks 3rd or 4th in comeback wins with 35, and he has the second best home winning percentage in history (behind Terry Bradshaw)

[b bulldog]

1. Otto Graham
2. Joe Montana
3. John Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Sammy Baugh
6. Dan Marino
7. Terry Bradshaw
8. Brett Favre
9. Sid Luckman
10. Peyton Manning

These atre my top 10 QB'S.

[b bulldog]

Top 10 RB's
1.Jim Brown
2. Barry Sanders
3. Walter Payton
4. Gale Sayers
5. Eric Dickerson
6. OJ Simpson
7 Marion Motley
8. Emmit Smith
9. Bo Jackson(speculation)OR Franco Harris
10. Earl Campbell

[b bulldog]

Top 5 DB's
1. Herb Adderly
2. Deion Sanders
3. Ronnie Lott
4. Mel Blount
5. Willie Brown

[b bulldog]

Top 5 LB's
1. Dick Butkus
2. Lawrence Taylor
3. Ray Nitscke
4. Jack Lambert
5. Willie Lanier

[b bulldog]

Top 5 DL
1. Reggie White
2. Deacon Jones
3. Joe Green
4. Bob Lilly
5. Merlin Olsen

[b bulldog]

Top 5 OL
1. Forrest Gregg
2. Anthoney Munoz
3. John Hannah
4. Gene Upshaw
5. Roosevelt Brown
1. Mike Webster

[b bulldog]

Top 10 WR'S
1. Don Hutson
2. Jerry Rice
3. Ray Berry
4. Kellen Winslow
5. Steve Largent
6. John Mackey
7. Mike Ditka
8. Elroy Hirsch
9. Lynn Swann
10. Cris Carter or Michael Irv :mad: in

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good lists, bulldog. I agree with a lot of them.

[b bulldog]

I guess I am a homer, I had four Packers number one.

[Bretsky]

1. Otto Graham
2. Joe Montana
3. John Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Sammy Baugh
6. Dan Marino
7. Terry Bradshaw
8. Brett Favre
9. Sid Luckman
10. Peyton Manning

These atre my top 10 QB'S.


You must be old if you've seen enough of some of those QB's to include them in top 10 :wink:

[b bulldog]

I love to read WW2 books and the NFL's old timers books. With all the changing in the O, it's very difficult to compare era to era but some of thses playerfs were way ahead of their time.

[pbmax]

1. Otto Graham
2. Joe Montana
3. John Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Sammy Baugh
6. Dan Marino
7. Terry Bradshaw
8. Brett Favre
9. Sid Luckman
10. Peyton Manning

These atre my top 10 QB'S.


You must be old if you've seen enough of some of those QB's to include them in top 10 :wink:
I think I posted these exact players except Namath for Luckman and Favre ahead of Bradshaw.

As a former Browns fan, I have seen a lot of Otto Graham film and the funny thing is, in a lot of highlights he throws great post patterns to his receivers.

And when I see footage of Starr throwing to McGee and Dowler, I see lots of post patterns.

They looked alot different (Graham, esp with the white AAFC football) threw a wounded duck at times that looked like Jim Plunkett.

But Starr and Graham both made beautiful throws on the post. And in their day, they were actually throwing to the post!