How can the Eagles be this bad?

[Patler]

They've lost 8 in a row, 9 of their last 10.
They barely beat Cleveland to open the season, and were more lucky than good in beating the Ravens and Giants.
Only Jacksonville and KC have worse records after 12 games.
Reid has made scapegoats out of his assistants.
Assistants question player decisions.

How did it come to this under a Head Coach often rated as one of the best?

[Little Whiskey]

Vick is a coach killer.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Too many egos on the team and not enough role players. Plus, no real leadership in the locker room. So when things start going bad, it just keeps spiraling down.

Remember when this was dubbed the "Dream Team" by the media? Way to crown them before they proved anything. Dummies.

[woodbuck27]

They've lost 8 in a row, 9 of their last 10.
They barely beat Cleveland to open the season, and were more lucky than good in beating the Ravens and Giants.
Only Jacksonville and KC have worse records after 12 games.
Reid has made scapegoats out of his assistants.
Assistants question player decisions.

How did it come to this under a Head Coach often rated as one of the best?

Injuries on their OL:

Struggling Eagles Lose Another Offensive Lineman

By: Townsquare News Network (4 weeks ago)

http://nj1015.com/struggling-eagles-lose-another-offensive-lineman/

Injuries (RB >>> QB) and a reported lack of effort and execution overall on both sides of the ball.

The Eagles are 29th on 'O' and 26th on 'D', overall in the NFL.

Is it here (their GM) as a possible contributing factor; although Andy Reid is Executive Director of footbal operations giving him final say in all football matters ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howie_Roseman

[Patler]

Too many egos on the team and not enough role players. Plus, no real leadership in the locker room. So when things start going bad, it just keeps spiraling down.

Remember when this was dubbed the "Dream Team" by the media? Way to crown them before they proved anything. Dummies.

But that doesn't explain the turmoil among the coaches, or consider that a really effective HC, as Reid is supposed to be, can hold some of the lockerroom stuff in check, and win a few games at least. The HC is supposed to overcome some of the player issues, hold egos in check, etc. perhaps not to the level of a championship competing team, but at least to show some level of competence. I'm not sure that the Eagles have had a single good performance this year.

I have wondered for years if Reid is really as good as some claimed. It seems to me that more often than not the Eagles have disappointed, even when they were good.

Reid can't even keep his coaching staff united, let alone the team.

[Zool]

Maybe the loss of Reid's son and the death of Jim Johnson was too much for him to overcome in the last couple years? When was the last time they were actually good?

[run pMc]

Reid can't even keep his coaching staff united, let alone the team.

IIRC, the DC (Castillo) used to be an OL coach and he got roasted pretty good last year and was canned after a few tough outings this year. Jason Babin was released and the DL coach (Washburn) was let go. The coaching staff is a mess. Not sure what's going on there, but with the death of Reid's son earlier this year you have to wonder what's going on.

That aside, they have been hit hard by injuries (I know, join the club) and they don't have the same depth as some other teams. I expect signing and releasing guys doesn't help their cap, and guys like Cullen Jenkins have (according to some) underperformed, and from what some have said they are misusing Asomugha (sp?).

DeSean Jackson is a Randy Moss Jr., Vick has either been hurt or turnover-prone this year. I think they're trotting out a R3 pick at QB. Is McCoy is on IR? Just a bad bad year all over for them, but I think there's definitely issues with the coaching staff...a solid staff would be able to weather enough of these things to win a few more games.
Think of the injuries M3 and staff has had to deal with and they've kept the train going.

[woodbuck27]

But that doesn't explain the turmoil among the coaches, or consider that a really effective HC, as Reid is supposed to be, can hold some of the lockerroom stuff in check, and win a few games at least. The HC is supposed to overcome some of the player issues, hold egos in check, etc. perhaps not to the level of a championship competing team, but at least to show some level of competence. I'm not sure that the Eagles have had a single good performance this year.

I have wondered for years if Reid is really as good as some claimed. It seems to me that more often than not the Eagles have disappointed, even when they were good.

Reid can't even keep his coaching staff united, let alone the team.

Andy Reid has indeed been very solid as the record clearly shows.

Maybe it's simply time for a change of scenery for Andy Reid; but looking over his record he's not won the Super Bowl; but has over the course of a long tenure (13 years) he's achieved a great deal and that certainly, compared to others in Philadelphia Eagle history.

** Andy Reid has compiled the best win total (120), winning percentage (.609) and playoff victory total (10) in team history.

** He's captured six division titles and five trips to the NFC Championship game. Since he was hired in 1999, no other franchise has earned more divisional playoff round appearances (7).

** Only Bill Belichick's (New England Patriots) have exceeded Philadelphia's (5) conference championship game appearances with (6).

** Since 1999, Reid has also sent 19 players to 44 Pro Bowl appearances, the highest total for any team in the NFL during that period. None of these players had ever appeared in a Pro Bowl before Reid was hired.

** Andy Reid has been awarded the Earle "Greasy" Neale Award for Professional Coach of the Year a record three (3) times.

Andy Reid has few in his field of expertise that can claim a superior body of work.

Patler if you could have Andy Reid as the Packer HC? Would you reject that optiion?

[Cheesehead Craig]

But that doesn't explain the turmoil among the coaches, or consider that a really effective HC, as Reid is supposed to be, can hold some of the lockerroom stuff in check, and win a few games at least. The HC is supposed to overcome some of the player issues, hold egos in check, etc. perhaps not to the level of a championship competing team, but at least to show some level of competence. I'm not sure that the Eagles have had a single good performance this year.

I have wondered for years if Reid is really as good as some claimed. It seems to me that more often than not the Eagles have disappointed, even when they were good.

Reid can't even keep his coaching staff united, let alone the team.

I don't think Reid's ever been good at keeping player's egos in check when he had to lead. He had McNabb for years to lead the locker room. Plus, it helped to have a phenominal DC for many of those years also who commanded respect with the players. I think that Reid needs a fairly drama free team in order to succeed. So I am in the same camp as you are about his abilities. I do believe though that the high profile FA group from a few years ago was more than he could handle on his own and he had nobody to help him out in the locker room, thus exposing his weaknesses of true talent management.

[pittstang5]

IIRC, the DC (Castillo) used to be an OL coach and he got roasted pretty good last year and was canned after a few tough outings this year. Jason Babin was released and the DL coach (Washburn) was let go. The coaching staff is a mess. Not sure what's going on there, but with the death of Reid's son earlier this year you have to wonder what's going on.

That aside, they have been hit hard by injuries (I know, join the club) and they don't have the same depth as some other teams. I expect signing and releasing guys doesn't help their cap, and guys like Cullen Jenkins have (according to some) underperformed, and from what some have said they are misusing Asomugha (sp?).

DeSean Jackson is a Randy Moss Jr., Vick has either been hurt or turnover-prone this year. I think they're trotting out a R3 pick at QB. Is McCoy is on IR? Just a bad bad year all over for them, but I think there's definitely issues with the coaching staff...a solid staff would be able to weather enough of these things to win a few more games.
Think of the injuries M3 and staff has had to deal with and they've kept the train going.

This season for the Eagles kinda reminds me of the 2005 season for the Packers. Injuries, o-line is horrible, defense can't get off the field and their offense was a turnover machine. Talent is there, just not playing like they should.

[woodbuck27]

This season for the Eagles kinda reminds me of the 2005 season for the Packers. Injuries, o-line is horrible, defense can't get off the field and their offense was a turnover machine. Talent is there, just not playing like they should.

Yup... and that shouldn't be put on the HC...especially when that HC is Andy Reid.

Injuries to starters and especially key defensive players and offensive players and/or on the offensive line will generally cause a decline in overall team performance.

Is that the fault of the HC? It comes down to the true quality of a teams depth chart. On that note possibly, Andy Reid may be criticized.

Injuries to key offensive weapons and on the offensive line:

Isn't that a valid explanation in regards to the teams offensive results overall and possibly a decline in a QB's performance? Worse. A reason why a QB may fall to injury, left unprotected.

[Patler]

Andy Reid has indeed been very solid as the record clearly shows.

Maybe it's simply time for a change of scenery for Andy Reid; but looking over his record he's not won the Super Bowl; but has over the course of a long tenure (13 years) he's achieved a great deal and that certainly, compared to others in Philadelphia Eagle history.

** Andy Reid has compiled the best win total (120), winning percentage (.609) and playoff victory total (10) in team history.

** He's captured six division titles and five trips to the NFC Championship game. Since he was hired in 1999, no other franchise has earned more divisional playoff round appearances (7).

** Only Bill Belichick's (New England Patriots) have exceeded Philadelphia's (5) conference championship game appearances with (6).

** Since 1999, Reid has also sent 19 players to 44 Pro Bowl appearances, the highest total for any team in the NFL during that period. None of these players had ever appeared in a Pro Bowl before Reid was hired.

** Andy Reid has been awarded the Earle "Greasy" Neale Award for Professional Coach of the Year a record three (3) times.

Andy Reid has few in his field of expertise that can claim a superior body of work.

Patler if you could have Andy Reid as the Packer HC? Would you reject that optiion?

Actually, I have said for a few years now that Any Reid is not the guy I would want in GB. Not any more, anyway. Initially, yes, instead of the failed experiment with Ray Rhodes, it would have been good to hire Reid. I would have preferred Reid over Sherman, at the time.

But, at about the time MM came in I was losing interest in Reid. Yes, he had very good records and made the playoffs, but were often the favored team and would lose in the playoffs. He had teams full of pro-bowlers, but never got over the hump with them.

All sports seem to have coaches that are good in the regular season, but get outclassed in the playoffs. Reid seems to fall into that category, when you look at what he has achieved with the players he has had. He has not gotten the most out of them.

Before you ask, I'm not sure were MM falls on that scale. Outside of 2010, he is 1-3 in the playoffs, with two ugly playoff losses at home. However, winning a SB as a 6th seed goes a long way in legitimizing his reputation as a playoff leader.

[pittstang5]

Yup... and that shouldn't be put on the HC...especially when that HC is Andy Reid.

Well, there's also the arguement that the HC, in this case Reid, is responsible for the product that he puts out on the field - Players regardless of who they are, need to be prepared, play better or up to NFL standards, which ultimately falls on the coaching staff - in which Reid is in charge. Whether Reid, the players or even the front office is to blame - the Eagles are just a mess right now. Regardless, heads are gonna roll and Reid will be gone - probably coaching San Diego next year.

[woodbuck27]

Actually, I have said for a few years now that Any Reid is not the guy I would want in GB. Not any more, anyway. Initially, yes, instead of the failed experiment with Ray Rhodes, it would have been good to hire Reid. I would have preferred Reid over Sherman, at the time.

But, at about the time MM came in I was losing interest in Reid. Yes, he had very good records and made the playoffs, but were often the favored team and would lose in the playoffs. He had teams full of pro-bowlers, but never got over the hump with them.

All sports seem to have coaches that are good in the regular season, but get outclassed in the playoffs. Reid seems to fall into that category, when you look at what he has achieved with the players he has had. He has not gotten the most out of them.

Before you ask, I'm not sure were MM falls on that scale. Outside of 2010, he is 1-3 in the playoffs, with two ugly playoff losses at home. However, winning a SB as a 6th seed goes a long way in legitimizing his reputation as a playoff leader.

OK ... you don't like Andy Reid as a HC candidate. If Philly dismisses him he won't be long finding another good position in the NFL. Owners are licking their lips to get him.

Why?

His body of work is excellent.

[Patler]

Some injuries, sure, but the Eagles have only 4 players on IR, not an extraordinary number in any way. Granted, three are from the O-line, but they knew they would be without one, Peters, way back in March when he tore his Achilles, and signed a starter from Buffalo (Bell) to replace him. Sort of like the Packers losing Wells from last season. Bell himself has been hurt for the Eagles, but not so much that he is on IR.

[Patler]

OK ... you don't like Andy Reid as a HC candidate. If Philly dismisses him he won't be long finding another good position in the NFL. Owners are licking their lips to get him.

Why?

His body of work is excellent.

That, and because he is a former HC. The sad fact in all pro sports is that the difficult job to get is the first one as a HC. Thereafter, you can get fired time and time again and still find work as a HC if you want it.

I wouldn't classify his body of work as excellent. Maybe very good, but not excellent. To annually have teams that are considered among the most talented teams in the NFC, true SB contenders, and make just one SB is not an excellent performance in my opinion.

[Patler]

JSO had an article earlier this year about HC tenure, and basically concluded that very few HC's are anywhere near as good after 8 or 10 years as during those first 8-10 years. It didn't matter if they stayed with the same teams or switched teams. It was true even for those with very long careers. The "magic" of those first 8-10 years, if they had it, very seldom was as strong in later years. Maybe passion is lost, maybe opponents get to know them better, maybe the game evolves and they fail to evolve with it; but the greatest success comes early in HC careers, for the most part.

[Fritz]

OK ... you don't like Andy Reid as a HC candidate. If Philly dismisses him he won't be long finding another good position in the NFL. Owners are licking their lips to get him.

Why?

His body. . . is excellent.

Eww, Woodbuck. Creepy.

http://thefanhub.com/uploads/medium/uspw_6722306-1352476555.jpg

[woodbuck27]

OK ... you don't like Andy Reid as a HC candidate. If Philly dismisses him he won't be long finding another good position in the NFL. Owners are licking their lips to get him.

Why?

His body. . . is excellent.

Eww, Woodbuck. Creepy.

http://thefanhub.com/uploads/medium/uspw_6722306-1352476555.jpg

Ohh wow ! That......is ....CREEPY. LOL

Good one Fritz. :lol:

[red]

i think reid suffers from being a "good guy"

the good guy thing can work with the right personal. but i don't think the team full of high priced egos is the right personal for that type of coach

that and vick is a coach killer. he seems to have that one big year whenever its time to get paid, then he turns back into normal vick

its also come out that the d-line douche bag that they just got rid of wasn't even reids guy. the GM hired and brought him in before reid had a DC. guy turns out to be a major prick and AR can't do anything about it because it was his bosses hire.

they'd be doing AR a huge favor if they just cut the poor bastard and put him out of his missery. them clean out the rest of the house and start over, that organization is a complete mess

[woodbuck27]

JSO had an article earlier this year about HC tenure, and basically concluded that very few HC's are anywhere near as good after 8 or 10 years as during those first 8-10 years. It didn't matter if they stayed with the same teams or switched teams. It was true even for those with very long careers. The "magic" of those first 8-10 years, if they had it, very seldom was as strong in later years. Maybe passion is lost, maybe opponents get to know them better, maybe the game evolves and they fail to evolve with it; but the greatest success comes early in HC careers, for the most part.

Should we be surprized?

That pretty much is 'a general statement' on by far most of us, in most of our endeavours.

[KYPack]

JSO had an article earlier this year about HC tenure, and basically concluded that very few HC's are anywhere near as good after 8 or 10 years as during those first 8-10 years. It didn't matter if they stayed with the same teams or switched teams. It was true even for those with very long careers. The "magic" of those first 8-10 years, if they had it, very seldom was as strong in later years. Maybe passion is lost, maybe opponents get to know them better, maybe the game evolves and they fail to evolve with it; but the greatest success comes early in HC careers, for the most part.

Halas coached the Bears for 40 years. But it was in four 10 year increments. He thought just like you do. He'd burn out, take a few years off observing the game and then come back to coaching. In addition to 10 years of doing that shit burning you out, after some time, he needed a fresh set of players that hadn't heard all his bullshit.

In the modern NFL, taking 3 or 4 years off and coming back in might not be possible.

[Patler]

Halas coached the Bears for 40 years. But it was in four 10 year increments. He thought just like you do. He'd burn out, take a few years off observing the game and then come back to coaching. In addition to 10 years of doing that shit burning you out, after some time, he needed a fresh set of players that hadn't heard all his bullshit.

In the modern NFL, taking 3 or 4 years off and coming back in might not be possible.

I think they counted Halas as one of the exceptions to the general result.

[woodbuck27]

I think they counted Halas as one of the exceptions to the general result.

If Jon Gruden makes a return as an NFL HC.

I'd bet the team that wants him will spend alot to have him.

I've sure enjoyed his color work on MNF. He see's so much and is fun for me to listen to and learn from.

[mraynrand]

Halas coached the Bears for 40 years. But it was in four 10 year increments. He thought just like you do. He'd burn out, take a few years off observing the game and then come back to coaching. In addition to 10 years of doing that shit burning you out, after some time, he needed a fresh set of players that hadn't heard all his bullshit.

In the modern NFL, taking 3 or 4 years off and coming back in might not be possible.

That's probably why you see guys like Coughlin riding the roller coaster; or guys like Fisher taking a year out and heading for a new team. Parcells would start somewhere fresh, but always get a couple of players who were his true believers and lockerroom enforcers to support his BS. And until unavailable, he would scoop up Belichick. Like Jackson lining up Tex Winter to teach/run the triangle, you need those trusted assistants to run the show.

[Guiness]

That, and because he is a former HC. The sad fact in all pro sports is that the difficult job to get is the first one as a HC. Thereafter, you can get fired time and time again and still find work as a HC if you want it.

I wouldn't classify his body of work as excellent. Maybe very good, but not excellent. To annually have teams that are considered among the most talented teams in the NFC, true SB contenders, and make just one SB is not an excellent performance in my opinion.

That mostly rings true - it's a small fraternity, and once you make your way in they seem to stay 'in'. Witness a guy like Dick Vermeil, I never did figure out how he kept getting hired. Every year you see some recycled candidates, Sherman might be back as an HC yet. He seems to want to and is positioning himself for it.

[Guiness]

Halas coached the Bears for 40 years. But it was in four 10 year increments. He thought just like you do. He'd burn out, take a few years off observing the game and then come back to coaching. In addition to 10 years of doing that shit burning you out, after some time, he needed a fresh set of players that hadn't heard all his bullshit.

In the modern NFL, taking 3 or 4 years off and coming back in might not be possible.

Not too many have stuck around for that type of a length of time. In the Super Bowl era, how many guys lasted 10 years with a team? Pittsburgh seems to be the exception, with Noll and Cowher, with Tomlin well on his way.

[red]

lets say reid retires or is fired

is that the end of the holmgren coaching dynasty? i remember when they were the cats ass, now they're all out of coaching or assistants

what the hell happened?

[King Friday]

Reid should have stepped aside after his kid died. I doubt Reid's head has really been 100% into football this year. Reid has seen more than his share of personal conflict in recent years, which I think has greatly impacted his ability to coach.

If I was his friend, I would tell him to strongly consider just taking a few years off from coaching...lose some weight...get healthy both mentally and physically before returning to a job that is extreme in stress and fatigue.

[red]

Reid should have stepped aside after his kid died. I doubt Reid's head has really been 100% into football this year. Reid has seen more than his share of personal conflict in recent years, which I think has greatly impacted his ability to coach.

If I was his friend, I would tell him to strongly consider just taking a few years off from coaching...lose some weight...get healthy both mentally and physically before returning to a job that is extreme in stress and fatigue.

screw that, if i'm his friend i tell him to get out of coaching, period.

go into the broadcasting side. his buddies gruden and mooch can tell him how good it is.

everytime i see or talk to mooch he's on cloud 9 and loving life and his job on the nfl network. i doubt he ever leaves that gig

[George Cumby]

lets say reid retires or is fired

is that the end of the holmgren coaching dynasty? i remember when they were the cats ass, now they're all out of coaching or assistants

what the hell happened?

Grossly over-rated due to Ron Wolff's ability to acquire FA talent.

[wootah]

For what it's worth, I'm recreationally involved in the coaching of youth soccer teams and try to read up on the topic as much as possible. In one of the books of Anson Dorrance, legendary women's soccer coach in North Carolina, he mentions this topic as well and according to him the decline of experienced coaches stems from the fact that coaching means a continuous changing of habits & mentality.

This change requires confrontation; you must constantly fight the human nature of your players that wants to do things "just good enough". Dorrance claimed that in order to achieve success, this confrontation is crucial and the fire required to conduct this "fight" year after year, day in day out, is difficult to maintain, especially at an older age, especially already having had a lot of success in the past.

I must say I agree with the guy winning 21 out of the last 31 national championships on this topic.

[pbmax]

Reid has trouble of his own making, including having final say in personnel, but now patience has worn thin enough with ownership that they are interfering like Modell trying to get Schottenheimer to fire certain assistants every year to improve areas of the team.

Changing from Juan Castillo to Todd Bowles has been an unmitigated disaster and Castillo was a fall guy to begin with. After a very poor year last year (remember lockout, new DC, new scheme, lot's of FAs) they were performing far better this year (I think they were just over League average in most cases) but had a couple of close games slip by because of defensive failures. This change was something likely forced on Reid after a tough loss.

Bowles was the favorite of the largely FA DB corp but has been a complete disaster since the first game he took over. The main problem is that the offense was sputtering far worse than the defense, but the owner wasn't willing to can the HC and his offense.

However, even this situation is largely of Reid's making. He hired Jim Washburn as D line coach and asked him to install the Titans wide-9 defense front. Castillo was then installed on top of Washburn and asked to square the circle with the rest of the defense. It took most of last year to tweak the scheme to personnel and they were still working on cleaning up the backend with Bowles (new hire this year or last I think and former candidate for Packer DC). And now Bowles has to square his own ideas with Washburn's installation. It leads to the obvious question: who is in charge of the defense?

And why wasn't the OC/HC fired since despite a clear line of authority and stability, the offense is the worst part of the team?

[PA Pack Fan]

I've sure enjoyed his color work on MNF. He see's so much and is fun for me to listen to and learn from.

No. He has a serious "I can't STFU" kind of problem. The sooner he's back to doing what he does best, coaching, the better.

[woodbuck27]

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/556108_464774106902616_1194907857_n.png