CUT THROAT CONTACTS.....COULD 4 of 6 REALLY BE GONE NEXT YEAR ?

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/whats-the-future-of-packers-biggest-contracts-m083rbl-184579591.html

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/whats-the-future-of-packers-biggest-contracts-m083rbl-184579591.html

I think so. Finley will be gone. His contract calls for a 8.7 mil cap hit next year. Cobb makes Jennings expendable, especially since Jennings will be looking for a big contract. Packers don't really need 4 starting caliber WR's. Hawk's cap hit will be 7 million. Too much for a good but not great ILB. Bishop and Smith will be back next year and Manning should be ready to contribute. Hayward may have made Woodson expendable, who has a cap hit next year of 10 mil.

[rbaloha1]

Yes. Cap space must be cleared to keep players like Matthews, Raji, and maybe Jennings.

[Patler]

Woodson's has become an interesting situation. They have done well without. Will he add anything to the defense next year? Will he add $10 million worth of anything?

On another note for Woodson - two months and counting for a broken collar bone? I've had hockey players come back in six weeks. What's the problem with Woodson?

[Brandon494]

And you guys were worried about cap space.

[Guiness]

A lot of theorizing in that article. Didn't like it much at all.

[run pMc]

A lot of theorizing in that article. Didn't like it much at all.
True, but I found myself thinking McGinn actually made a lot of sense. Something must be in the water.

As much I as like a lot of those guys, Hawk and Finley are underperforming their contracts. Woodson and Jennings have been hurt and GB has kept on winning. I'm not 100% sold on Raji but they need big guys who can play. Matthews and Rodgers are your difference makers. GB loses them and they sink.
Yes, I realize the team won without Clay, but the pass rush looked shaky without him and we don't have another Cobb/Jordy-like player who can replace him. (Plus he's not turning 30 like Jennings.)

The draft will be very important this year in adding/backfilling some more talent while the rookies and youngsters try to make that leap.

[woodbuck27]

Read this article and need to think about it.

It's like a heads up for those mentioned and I'm not sure it shakes with TT's 'cards close to his chest' way.

I can see Jermichael Finley, Greg Jennings, AJ Hawk and Charles Woodson all gone and based on what we see happening this season we don't skip a beat.

TT has options.

GO PACKERS !

[MJZiggy]

We're gonna talk about it and talk about it and then half of these guys will restructure to stay on the team. Question is, which ones?

[LegandofthePack15]

I think so. Finley will be gone. His contract calls for a 8.7 mil cap hit next year. Cobb makes Jennings expendable, especially since Jennings will be looking for a big contract. Packers don't really need 4 starting caliber WR's. Hawk's cap hit will be 7 million. Too much for a good but not great ILB. Bishop and Smith will be back next year and Manning should be ready to contribute. Hayward may have made Woodson expendable, who has a cap hit next year of 10 mil.

What did Wolfey regret? Not surrounding the G.O.A.T with more talent. That's right.

The Polar Bear is a disciple of Wolf (side note: polar bears and wolves share a common ancestor). Don't make the same mistake Wolf made. J-Mike and Jennings are core players in their primes. Make it work. Retain the two players not just for next season but for as long as Rodgers is still playing at a high level.

Defensively, keep Wood around for at least another season as a full-time safety. Capers requires his safeties to cover mano to mano many a-time a game. Sure, Wood has lost a step but he's still the only safety on the roster who can cover TEs/RBs/# 3 or 4 wrs man to man. Plus, no other safety on the roster can blitz like Wood can.

Burnett/Jennings/McMillan: these guys can't cover or blitz worth a lick.

Hawk's a nice guy and he always show up for work. But the guy's average at best. Wouldn't be sad to see him go like I was sad when Nick "Vampire" Barnett left. But then again, Thompson seems to love Hawk a lot so don't be surprised to see Hawk back again next season.

[LegandofthePack15]

Btw, the Packers don't need 4 starting caliber WR's? Somewhere the wretched fiend, Injury, is laughing his fat ass off

This season is proof that you can't have enough starting caliber wrs.

[gbgary]

We're gonna talk about it and talk about it and then half of these guys will restructure to stay on the team. Question is, which ones?

this. calm down people. tt is not going to gut this team of talent. fin will be back for sure...count on it. dd and woodson will surely be gone though.

[rbaloha1]

Not so fast on Finley.

Should he start stretching the field and making plays expect the Packers to retain him.

Hawk is playing faster and hitting dudes. Probably remains.

[RashanGary]

They should tag Jennings regardless. The other three can go outright. Like people have said, we should be able to get a 2 or an early 3 for Jennings. Beats the heck out of the early 4th we'd get in the comp draft.

[LegandofthePack15]

They should tag Jennings regardless. The other three can go outright. Like people have said, we should be able to get a 2 or an early 3 for Jennings. Beats the heck out of the early 4th we'd get in the comp draft.

Yes, tag Jennings if necessary. Guys like Reggie Wayne and Steve Smith are examples of receivers being productive in their 30's. I bet Jennings would still be productive at 35.

[red]

Woodson's has become an interesting situation. They have done well without. Will he add anything to the defense next year? Will he add $10 million worth of anything?

On another note for Woodson - two months and counting for a broken collar bone? I've had hockey players come back in six weeks. What's the problem with Woodson?

i heard woodson was ready to go and practicing 2 or 3 weeks ago. the the Packer team doctor saw something on an x-ray that he wasn't quite sure about, so they kept holding him out. it sounds like woodson is pissed over the fact that they aren't letting him play

proof that our doctor is maybe being way to conservative?

[red]

this. calm down people. tt is not going to gut this team of talent. fin will be back for sure...count on it. dd and woodson will surely be gone though.

how? of that list, fin to me is the first one to go. and the easiest decision. today was just proof that he's been half assing it all year.

he's not worth the amount of money he's set to earn. not even close. he's the one guy who hasn't been injured that hasn't come close to earning his pay this season

[Bretsky]

how? of that list, fin to me is the first one to go. and the easiest decision. today was just proof that he's been half assing it all year.

he's not worth the amount of money he's set to earn. not even close. he's the one guy who hasn't been injured that hasn't come close to earning his pay this season

He's also the one with upside of the group. Woodson is old...Hawk....we know what we have with an ok player. Jennings...IMO he's there and the ez call is to tag him

[red]

He's also the one with upside of the group. Woodson is old...Hawk....we know what we have with an ok player. Jennings...IMO he's there and the ez call is to tag him

you mean the upside we've already been waiting for 5 years to see more then a little glimpse of?

[RashanGary]

I've flip flopped a little here. Now, if I had to list these moves in order of ones I'm most sure of to least, I'd go like this. . . .

1. Jennings tagged (even if we don't trade him, he's a steal on a 1 year 9M contract. He deserves a long term deal with a lot more up front and at least that per year. We have all the leverage with him. I think not tagging him would be kind of crazy.)

2. Hawk will be gone (Jones, Bishop and Smith are all good players. It's similar to the WR position, except Hawk is no Greg Jennings. I can't see keeping him.)

3. Woodson will be gone (There is no way he's worth 9M/year. He's old. He's a real health concern. We have Hayward, Shields, House and Williams.)

4. Finley will stay (Shocking, I know, but the guy is going into his contract year at 7M/year. When he's right, he's worth that and more. If TT were a betting man, and I think he is, I think he'd bet on Fin being at his best in a contract year. Similar to Jennings, it's only a 1 year deal. There is very little risk. I think we keep him, then let him walk when his deal is up)

[pbmax]

Beware of replacing Hawk with Jones or Smith. Neither backup plays the same position. This has been why Hawk has stayed with the team this long.

His increase in productivity plus lack of backup at his spot means he stays unless Capers and Moss think Jones or Bishop can switch over. And Capers last week told McGinn he thinks Jones' best spot is Bishop's weakside spot.

[gbgary]

tj lang & Packers just agreed to a new deal.

[Pugger]

I too think Jennings will be tagged. He is still one of the better WRs in the league and our offense is better with him.

It will cost more to get rid of Hawk. He is overpaid but he is more valuable to the team that most fans think. Of all of the LBers I'd get rid of Smith and Zombo before I'd dump Hawk.

Unless Woody takes a pay cut he's gone. We have alot of up and comers in the secondary.

Unless we get somebody this offseason better Finley isn't going anywhere either. He's been playing pretty well the past few weeks.

[pbmax]

Love Lang. Great deal.

[Tony Oday]

1. Tag and trade I doubt he will play under the tag

2. Hawk needs to be retained at a lower number, Bishop is good but oft injured.

3. Woodson, why wont he play for less than his contract? I like the guy but he cant cover #1s anymore.

4. Bye Bye, cut before the ring ceremony.

[Patler]

tj lang & Packers just agreed to a new deal.

Wasn't that in training camp?

[gbgary]

[QUOTE=Patler;704022]Wasn't that in training camp?[/QUO


you are correct sir!

lol...never mind. :oops:

[Guiness]

1. Tag and trade I doubt he will play under the tag

2. Hawk needs to be retained at a lower number, Bishop is good but oft injured.

3. Woodson, why wont he play for less than his contract? I like the guy but he cant cover #1s anymore.

4. Bye Bye, cut before the ring ceremony.

Won't play under the tag? Yes, he will. Players are never happy when tagged, but inevitably show up for work - they won't walk away from a payday like that. And the alternative is to get nada. Plus, if they don't play, they can be re-tagged the next year.

[King Friday]

My guess is that Green Bay will attempt to keep Jennings by offering what they believe to be a fair deal...but I do not believe Thompson will tag him. I do not believe Thompson believes a WR is worth the kind of cap space that Jennings will ultimately hold. That is especially true with a roster that has Cobb, Nelson, and Jones already on it...all starting caliber WRs. You pay the $$ to Aaron Rodgers, and he is the guy that turns even marginal WRs into starting caliber guys...just as Brett Favre did with guys like Antonio Freeman and Bill Schroeder. You also pay the $$ to an offensive line to protect Rodgers. You don't pay huge money to WRs and RBs. Has New England done that much? Has Pittsburgh done that much? Sure, if you stumble on a HOF caliber player...you keep him. Greg Jennings is not in that class IMO. He's a very good WR, but he is not elite. Jennings will only remain in Green Bay if he WANTS to remain in Green Bay. If he wants a payday, then I think he is gone. My gut tells me he's gone, although I wish he would stay.

I believe the Packers will cut Hawk, but try to retain him with a reduced deal. My gut tells me Hawk will take that deal. I think he likes playing in Green Bay, and knows he won't find a huge deal anywhere else. Sure, we can improve on Hawk...but like we learned after losing Wells this year, sometimes it isn't worth it until you actually have a capable replacement in place. Hawk is a reliable guy who rarely is injured...you could do a lot worse at that position too.

Woodson probably returns for less money too. The Packers were fair to him and paid him top dollar a few years back. His best chance to get another ring or two is to stay in Green Bay. His recent injury history and "grabby" tendencies likely will reduce the chance that he will get a significant deal from anyone else. Woodson likes Green Bay. He will remain in the limelight in Green Bay, even if he isn't the player he used to be. He's a great mentor to the young kids in the secondary. I am confident Woodson is back at a reduced deal.

Finley will be treated like Jennings IMO. Thompson will offer what he believes is fair, but nothing more. If Finley wants the payday, he's gone. However, with his lack of production and propensity to yap, his market value to the rest of the league has declined. He may not get the huge payday he's looking for and might come back to Green Bay...especially if Jennings does leave first.

[Guiness]

Good post King. I'm not sure how much I agree with, but you made some solid points.

Hawk is quietly playing much better than most are giving him credit for, and I also think think his staying get healthy counts for a LOT. Maybe the team should get everyone hypobaric chambers... Worth the 7? Who knows, but I think the Pack does what it can to retain him.

Finley...I get the feeling there are too many whispering in his ear and he will not renegotiate. The question is, will a contract year make it worthwhile?

Woodson - the toughest call. I saw somewhere else that you have pay a the warrior his money. It may have been right. He brings a shit ton of leadership to the locker room. Thing is, what is that worth to the Pack? Look at the guys who by all appearances are solid character guys, and I would think promote a good environment- off the top of my head and in no particular order - Mathews, Raji, Pickett, Nelson, Rodgers, Hawk, Tramon, Kuhn...and others. Does Woodson add more to that? I'm not so sure. I think the one chance there is that he stays is that he recognizes he filled out his HOF resume in GB and wants to stay, but he's a business man and I don't think so.

And Jennings? It's all just guesses when it comes to him. My gut tells me it's franchise or nothing. Injuries are his problem, but some hungry team (SF? Balt?) willpay him in hopes he can stay healthy.

[Guiness]

Missing from your list is Pickett. Also having a solid season. He should get a solid market offer from the Pack. I don't think they'll try to keep him on the cheap.

[Patler]

I see two major questions about Woodson:
- Will the Packers consider him a starter next year?
- Will he be interested in staying if they don't?

I think it might be likely that the answers to both questions are "No."

[Patler]

Missing from your list is Pickett. Also having a solid season. He should get a solid market offer from the Pack. I don't think they'll try to keep him on the cheap.

I agree completely. I think they will offer a fair contract, and he will stay. Probably a more or less "pay as you go" contract for about three years. He will be paid quite well for as long as he plays, but if he falls off a cliff and they release him, he won't cost much against the cap.

[woodbuck27]

I too think Jennings will be tagged. He is still one of the better WRs in the league and our offense is better with him.

It will cost more to get rid of Hawk. He is overpaid but he is more valuable to the team that most fans think. Of all of the LBers I'd get rid of Smith and Zombo before I'd dump Hawk.

Unless Woody takes a pay cut he's gone. We have alot of up and comers in the secondary.

Unless we get somebody this offseason better Finley isn't going anywhere either. He's been playing pretty well the past few weeks.

RE: Charles Woodson

Why isn't he playing? The sensable thing is...for his agent to negotiate a reduced contract. Maybe TT isn't offering that !?

Maybe Charles Woodson is pouting!?

[Guiness]

RE: Charles Woodson

Why isn't he playing? The sensable thing is...for his agent to negotiate a reduced contract. Maybe TT isn't offering that !?

Maybe Charles Woodson is pouting!?

Don't throw mud at that guy! He's given no reason to think something like that. Reports (posted by someone at PR) is that he's medically cleared, but the Packers doctor still has reservations and won't give him final clearance. He's apparently pissed about that, and I would guess it's at least partially because of the businessman side of him I mentioned...he knows not playing is costing him money both now, and potentially next year if he's looking for a new contract.

[woodbuck27]

Don't throw mud at that guy! He's given no reason to think something like that. Reports (posted by someone at PR) is that he's medically cleared, but the Packers doctor still has reservations and won't give him final clearance. He's apparently pissed about that, and I would guess it's at least partially because of the businessman side of him I mentioned...he knows not playing is costing him money both now, and potentially next year if he's looking for a new contract.

I'm not throwing mud at Charles Woodson merely wondering what's the holdup Guiness. I find his length of time out puzzling.

Did you see this word at the beginning of the last two sentences (why)?

Did you see this at the end of sentences (!?) ....?

I'm simply wondering why he's not playing?

a) Just maybe, Charles Woodson might ask to cushion the collarbone to get him in games?

b) How could he stand on the sideline if he's anxious to contribute; and 'in fact' medically cleared to play?

I in no manner am attempting to smear Charles Woodson. Maybe someone has more insight into this important players status?

GO PACKERS!

[RashanGary]

McGinn came out with a draft preview. Apparently, this is an incredibly deep safety class. If we picked up a safety with a high pick, that would affect Woodson too.

[MJZiggy]

Ya know, everyone said that Woodson wouldn't be willing to move to safety which he did without complaint. Now we're thinking he won't do anything else the team might ask to keep him around...I don't buy it. In the meantime, players aren't allowed to play until a coach tells them they can play. He can feel fantastic and be completely cleared to play, but unless his coach says he's playing, he's not.

[Guiness]

Ya know, everyone said that Woodson wouldn't be willing to move to safety which he did without complaint. Now we're thinking he won't do anything else the team might ask to keep him around...I don't buy it. In the meantime, players aren't allowed to play until a coach tells them they can play. He can feel fantastic and be completely cleared to play, but unless his coach says he's playing, he's not.

Yup. He can jump up and down all he wants, but it they take away his helmet, he is not playing.

Woody, you asked if he was pouting. That to me is mud slinging.

[Pugger]

Are we certain Charles has been medically cleared to play?

[pbmax]

He has not. Medical staff found something else in his X-Ray.

[denverYooper]

He has not. Medical staff found something else in his X-Ray.

Is it shaped like Casey Hayward?

[Freak Out]

I agree completely. I think they will offer a fair contract, and he will stay. Probably a more or less "pay as you go" contract for about three years. He will be paid quite well for as long as he plays, but if he falls off a cliff and they release him, he won't cost much against the cap.

I remember ready a story about he and his family and that they LOVED living in the area.

[woodbuck27]

Ya know, everyone said that Woodson wouldn't be willing to move to safety which he did without complaint. Now we're thinking he won't do anything else the team might ask to keep him around...I don't buy it. In the meantime, players aren't allowed to play until a coach tells them they can play. He can feel fantastic and be completely cleared to play, but unless his coach says he's playing, he's not.

Your point well taken. I've been thinking about this and wondering if MM just doesn't want to give the younger players a longer look...get them more experience as we still win and at the same time ensure that Charles Woodson is really healed. I feel we need Charles Woodson's leadership on the field not sidelines if he's truly medically cleared.

GO PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

Yup. He can jump up and down all he wants, but it they take away his helmet, he is not playing.

Woody, you asked if he was pouting. That to me is mud slinging.

No it was a question. You took it as a rhetorical question.

Fair enough and I responded to try to broaden my position of a mere query. I want him in pads.

[woodbuck27]

He has not. Medical staff found something else in his X-Ray.

That would explain it then.

[Fritz]

My feeling is that Woodson, Jennings, and Finley will be gone. I think that Hawk will stay, to the chagrin of many fans. I think Pickett will stay. I also have a strong suspicion that BJ Raji does not want to re-up in Green Bay. I think he'd like to be in a system that will give him more opportunities to get upfield.

[RashanGary]

Your point well taken. I've been thinking about this and wondering if MM just doesn't want to give the younger player a longer look...get them more experience as we still win and at the same time ensure that Charles Woodson is really healed. I feel we need Charles Woodson's leadership on the field not sidelines.

GO PACKERS !

I've thought about this too. Give MD Jennings and Hayward some long looks. . . . When Woodson does come back, there is actually a fairly big decision to make. Since we play more nickel than any other defense, the question is going to be whether to keep Woodson at safety and bring Hayward in as the slot corner or to move Woodson down to slot corner and bring MD Jennings off the bench.

IMO, the answer is pretty clear, leave Wood at safety. But I don't think that's what Woodson would really want. Also, I think the young guys are gelling together. They're more sure of their assignments. If you bring Woodson into the mix, he sort of free-lances, and I think that negatively affects the younger players who really need to know where their help is. . .

At the end of the day, I think Woodson is going to lose a lot of freedom out there. He's going to have to be accountable to his assignment so the defense can continue to grow and trust where each other are. He's going to have to stay at safety because Hayward is better than MD Jennings and it would be criminal to keep him off the field. . . .

I've wondered too, if the Packers want to keep growing this accountable, responsible defense so when Woodson does come back, they can sort of reign him in, and play within the defense. . .



That said, I doubt MM would do that. It would be very deceptive to Woodson. Coaches who start on that path of deceiving their players. . . . I think it loses a lot of respect and I don't think MM is that kind of guy. He wouldn't be where he is, with the success he has if he was that type of guy. Never know though. There are benefits to working it this way.

[Fritz]

Can't you have it both ways? Play Woodson at safety but bring him into the box the way some safeties do? Let Burnett stay back.

[Guiness]

Your point well taken. I've been thinking about this and wondering if MM just doesn't want to give the younger players a longer look...get them more experience as we still win and at the same time ensure that Charles Woodson is really healed. I feel we need Charles Woodson's leadership on the field not sidelines if he's truly medically cleared.

GO PACKERS !

Quite possibly he does. If so and he's the one holding Woodson out, I hope he brings him back this week, in a less meaningful game, and let him get some reps on the field. It's more critical with a WR who has to work on his timing, but any player who's been out that long needs to knock the rust off if he's going to play his best.

[Guiness]

No it was a question. You took it as a rhetorical question.

Fair enough and I responded to try to broaden my position of a mere query. I want him in pads.

I found it somewhat insulting to the type of player he is that you would even suggest it. By voicing it, you are encouraging others to give it thought. If I had thought it was a rhetorical question - one not needing an answer, and therefor assumed to be true, I'd have been even more pissed!:soap:

No worries though, eh?

[Pugger]

I doubt Finley or Jennings will be gone. We have other players who will not be missed in 2913.

Graham Harrell
DJ Smith
Brandon Saine
Jarrett Boykin
Donald Driver
Jordan Miller
Sean Richardson
Johnny White

If Woodson takes a pay cut he might be back.

[woodbuck27]

I found it somewhat insulting to the type of player he is that you would even suggest it. By voicing it, you are encouraging others to give it thought. If I had thought it was a rhetorical question - one not needing an answer, and therefor assumed to be true, I'd have been even more pissed!:soap:

No worries though, eh?

Guiness this whole question RE: Charles Woodson bothers me. This is a highly paid player that we have come to respect and need to see playing.

I'm not interested in any politics RE: this question. I simply would like to know exactly why he's still on our sideline. I certainly wouldn't intend any insult on the character of Charles Woodson. I'm way too far away to even reflect that could be the case. As an NFL fan I have nothing but respect for Charles Woodson.

[woodbuck27]

Quite possibly he does. If so and he's the one holding Woodson out, I hope he brings him back this week, in a less meaningful game, and let him get some reps on the field. It's more critical with a WR who has to work on his timing, but any player who's been out that long needs to knock the rust off if he's going to play his best.

Charles Woodson has been recognized as one of our main leaders in terms of reneumeration. If he's ready to go he should be playing not 'if that's even the case'; held out !

GO PACK GO !

[King Friday]

Let's just cut to the chase. The Packers WILL pay to keep Rodgers and Clay. Extending those two will likely cost an additional $12-14M per year going forward, and those extensions are both likely to take place this offseason. Raji is also very likely to be extended this offseason, which is probably another $3-4M per year. That is $15M-$18M extra cash we need to come up with.

Even if Jennings does wind up leaving, we are going to lose another key guy or two. The more I look at it, the more I see no reasonable way to keep Jennings...not with a roster already loaded at that position. It just doesn't make any sense to try to keep him and lose 2-3 other key players at positions that would have a far greater negative impact to the team. The emergence of Jones as a dynamic playmaker and development of Cobb (while Jennings has been stuck mostly on the bench this year anyway) makes Jennings expendable. It would be great to keep him, but this isn't MLB.

[KYPack]

That's about it, King.

GJ walks and Hawk gets cut and restructured.

The big 2? they gotta sign 'em.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

As much as it pains me to say it Jennings probably is gone. As he as even stated himself, the writing is on the wall. Jennings is probably my favorite player on the roster so it will be very tough to see him go.

Besides Jennings though, I don't see how Woodson can be back even with a pay cut. Look at the secondary. With his speed declining and the emergence of Hayward, Shields, and House, Woodson is the fifth best CB on the roster currently. Not only that, but Hayward seems perfect to replace Woodson as the Nickel CB. Between Burnett, Jennings, and McMillan at safety, is there really room for Woodson to play full time? Burnett has one spot locked up and between the draft and the other two guys when would Woodson play? I just can't see him coming back, esp at that price. Pay shields with some of that money, that guy can play.

As for Finley, I would attempt to trade him for a low round pick rather than just cutting him out right. He only has one year left so the team picking him up doesn't have to deal with a huge multiyear deal. If you are getting rid of Jennings and Woodson anyways, you might as well try to bait someone into a pick since we will have some room to keep him around for a while. If you can't find a trade partner then cut him. I'm not sure when he is due his roster bonus, but it would have to be before then. With Quarless coming back I really don't think we would be losing all that much. I was pretty high on Quarless before his injury. If you dump Finley early on, the tag and trade (or tag and keep) of Jennings might be more realistic.

I'm not sure of the details of Hawk's contract, but if we stand to clear a lot of cash by cutting him I would think about it. If you are talking about 1 or 2 mil in overall cap space, I would wait another year or two until the gain is more significant. That way if you are paying for him you might as well have him. Between Bishop and Hawk, we should be pretty decent at MLB next year.

So between Woodson, Finley, Jennings, and a few others like Driver, we probably clear 20+ mil. Plus we have about 7 mil in cap space going into next year anyways. That should be enough for Rodgers, Clay, and Raji. Plus doesn’t Raji already make 3-4 mil a year? He probably gets only another 3-4 mil added to that. He has been really good, but he hasn't been Ngata good. If they could somehow keep Greg and just lose Woodson and Finely that would be ideal. I would hate to lose both Jennings and Finley in the same year. That might have a greater impact then many want to let themselves believe.

[Pugger]

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=5841&is_corp=1

[Patler]

Finley is one of those guys who spends far too much time talking about himself, explaining himself, trying to analyze himself for reporters. In and of itself, that does not make him any more or less valuable as a player; but for some fans (and I suspect some teammates as well) it gets tiring to listen to. Lack of maturity, self-confidence, or something.

It will be interesting to see his contributions Sunday and for however long their playoff run extends. I suspect the JS article was on the money as of a month ago, and the Packer brain trust was tending toward releasing him before paying the roster bonus in the off season. His recent turn-around of sorts might have them changing their minds. A long playoff run with significant contributions from Finley could be the icing on the cake for his return in 2013.

[pbmax]

Finley is one of those guys who spends far too much time talking about himself, explaining himself, trying to analyze himself for reporters. In and of itself, that does not make him any more or less valuable as a player; but for some fans (and I suspect some teammates as well) it gets tiring to listen to. Lack of maturity, self-confidence, or something.

It will be interesting to see his contributions Sunday and for however long their playoff run extends. I suspect the JS article was on the money as of a month ago, and the Packer brain trust was tending toward releasing him before paying the roster bonus in the off season. His recent turn-around of sorts might have them changing their minds. A long playoff run with significant contributions from Finley could be the icing on the cake for his return in 2013.

The ESPN Milwaukee article mentions self-confidence as well. I think Finley sometimes substitutes bravado for confidence and perseverance.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Is it shaped like Casey Hayward?

LOL. But likely true to some degree.

I love Woodson but I don't think it's coincidence that the secondary is playing better without him. I thought last year when the team had to rely on him for the secondary calls that he blew too many assignments and gambles far too often and that his communication wasn't that great. The guys that are in there are giving up far fewer big plays and blown assignments. Sure some have their limitations but keeping things in front of them and being where they are supposed to be has done wonders overall for the coverage.

I believe Woodson will be released. It's sad as I think he's a class act guy but with the same injury coming up again and the way the secondary is gelling without him, I don't see how he's kept around for that dollar figure.

[Pugger]

Finley is one of those guys who spends far too much time talking about himself, explaining himself, trying to analyze himself for reporters. In and of itself, that does not make him any more or less valuable as a player; but for some fans (and I suspect some teammates as well) it gets tiring to listen to. Lack of maturity, self-confidence, or something.

It will be interesting to see his contributions Sunday and for however long their playoff run extends. I suspect the JS article was on the money as of a month ago, and the Packer brain trust was tending toward releasing him before paying the roster bonus in the off season. His recent turn-around of sorts might have them changing their minds. A long playoff run with significant contributions from Finley could be the icing on the cake for his return in 2013.


The ESPN Milwaukee article mentions self-confidence as well. I think Finley sometimes substitutes bravado for confidence and perseverance.

I can't think of many guys starting in the NFL that don't have a lot of self-confidence. You may be right about Finley's bravado but as long as he stays out of trouble and his coaches and teammates don't have a problem with him I won't either.

[Fritz]

That would make sense, PBS. Again, though, no one here seems to be acknowledging how difficult it will be to keep Raji. I think he wants out.

[denverYooper]

That would make sense, PBS. Again, though, no one here seems to be acknowledging how difficult it will be to keep Raji. I think he wants out.

Why do you think Raji wants out?

I just went back and found your post about his desire to get upfield. Have you read quotes or anything indicating that he'd like to do this?

[denverYooper]

The Packers should have hired Mike Singletary as their TE coach. He would have gotten Finley's mind right sooner.

[Fritz]

Why do you think Raji wants out?

I just went back and found your post about his desire to get upfield. Have you read quotes or anything indicating that he'd like to do this?

Just a couple articles a year or two ago about how Raji thinks his numbers would be way better if he were in a different system. He just strikes me as the kind of guy who would like the recognition that comes with big numbers. He's been a good soldier, but I have a feeling he'd like to be a bigger star in a bigger solar system.

A large market team that runs a system that allows defensive linemen to get upfield - that's my guess.

[King Friday]

Raji thinks he can get upfield?

Seriously?

Has he seen his ass lately?

[Guiness]

Just a couple articles a year or two ago about how Raji thinks his numbers would be way better if he were in a different system. He just strikes me as the kind of guy who would like the recognition that comes with big numbers. He's been a good soldier, but I have a feeling he'd like to be a bigger star in a bigger solar system.

A large market team that runs a system that allows defensive linemen to get upfield - that's my guess.

The 3-4 D is not flattering to defensive linemen. They become more like offensive linemen, only noticed when they screw up. Certainly a lot less opportunities to shine.

[pbmax]

Raji thinks he can get upfield?

Seriously?

Has he seen his ass lately?

He has had some of his best games in the Eagle Okie package, which has made a resurgence in the second half of the season. It features Pick on the nose (1 tech), Raji at 3 tech (DT) and Neal/Wilson at a 5 tech. In that defense (which resembles a 4-3 Under front I believe) his job is to 1 gap penetrate and he has been very good in that role.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=5841&is_corp=1

" Now, Finley enters the regular-season finale at Minnesota Sunday with 53 receptions for 595 yards and two touchdowns, putting him two shy of his career high in receptions (55, which he set in 2009 and matched in 2011) and three shy of the franchise single-season record for receptions by a tight end (56, set by Paul Coffman in 1979).

While ProFootballFocus.com has him for nine dropped passes on the season, Finley has only two drops in the past seven games. And in last Sunday’s 55-7 blowout of the Tennessee Titans, Finley had five catches for a season-high 70 yards, including catches on three consecutive plays on the final drive of the first half. " Fr. Story

Comment woodbuck27:

That's a good story.

Our GM doesn't have an easy job this off season. How will TT drop or trade a still young, developing and maturing TE (Jermichael Finley) that in all likelyhood could set a franchiae record for receptions by a TE this season?

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

Raji thinks he can get upfield?

Seriously?

Has he seen his ass lately?

Now that's funny. I take it that your not allowing alot of credibility for any Raji notions of more tackles and sacks.

[mraynrand]

I didn't read the entire thread but if Finley and Jennings go, I bet they end up with Chicago and Minnesota, respectively - and have outstanding seasons. Carry on.

[imscott72]

I think Hawk restructures and sticks around. He's been solid this year. Woodson and Jennings are most likely gone. I wouldn't write Finley off just yet.

[pbmax]

I think Hawk restructures and sticks around. He's been solid this year. Woodson and Jennings are most likely gone. I wouldn't write Finley off just yet.

It would be great, but I think the chances are lessened by his good season. He might not be willing to reduce the cap number unless he gets an extension and some more upfront.

[KYPack]

He has had some of his best games in the Eagle Okie package, which has made a resurgence in the second half of the season. It features Pick on the nose (1 tech), Raji at 3 tech (DT) and Neal/Wilson at a 5 tech. In that defense (which resembles a 4-3 Under front I believe) his job is to 1 gap penetrate and he has been very good in that role.

It's tough to equate a 30 front with 40 front terminology. A 4-3 under would have both DT's in a 3 tech. With Pickett on the nose, that would be a zero technique and the equivelant of a 4-3 over.

With Wilson back and Neal resurgent, I like out DLine's chances at performing well.

[rbaloha1]

It would be great, but I think the chances are lessened by his good season. He might not be willing to reduce the cap number unless he gets an extension and some more upfront.

Agree with Hawk -- FINALLY playing like a top 5 pick by making plays and throwing body around. IMO Hawk is a team guy and would be willing to take a Jordy Nelson home team discount.

Finley is also performing well and deserves to be on the team next year.

IMO the defense is better with Woodson due to the blitzing and being a factor in the run game. Unless CW is willing to accept a Driver type contract expect CW to be released.

[mraynrand]

He has had some of his best games in the Eagle Okie package, which has made a resurgence in the second half of the season. It features Pick on the nose (1 tech), Raji at 3 tech (DT) and Neal/Wilson at a 5 tech. In that defense (which resembles a 4-3 Under front I believe) his job is to 1 gap penetrate and he has been very good in that role.


It's tough to equate a 30 front with 40 front terminology. A 4-3 under would have both DT's in a 3 tech. With Pickett on the nose, that would be a zero technique and the equivelant of a 4-3 over.

With Wilson back and Neal resurgent, I like out DLine's chances at performing well.

This is making my head hurt

[mraynrand]

He has not. Medical staff found something else in his X-Ray.

Maybe they found his car keys

[pbmax]

It's tough to equate a 30 front with 40 front terminology. A 4-3 under would have both DT's in a 3 tech. With Pickett on the nose, that would be a zero technique and the equivelant of a 4-3 over.

With Wilson back and Neal resurgent, I like out DLine's chances at performing well.

I agree about terminology. The point that was made about the Eagle alignment's particulars that I was referring to was essentially that there was a body in the same spot as a common 4-3 front.

Are you sure about 4-3 over featuring someone at 0 tech? Is that guy shaded to one shoulder or another? And is this the same front Fritz Shurmur ran with Gilbert?

Because if it is, then I should have put Pick at 0 like Gilbert, Raji at 3 like Santana, Wilson/Neal/Worthy at 5 like White/Jones and Matthews at 9 (I think) like Jones/White.

[pbmax]

Maybe they found his car keys

Not funny. I saw the other week that 9,000+ objets were left in patient bodies after surgery. I would hope my surgeons would put an iPhone in there.

[Pugger]

I thought Finley had a nice game. I hope we resign Jennings. He had a good game too. Raji was all over the place. Too bad our tackling sucked. Thank god AP didn't get the freaking record.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Our offense is so dam good when Jennings is the number one option. If we don't re-sign him we are letting go of great talent.

[woodbuck27]

Our offense is so dam good when Jennings is the number one option. If we don't re-sign him we are letting go of great talent.

Greg Jennings is more than a tremendous WR. He's a solid leader.

I hope that he and TT can come to terms. Many teams would love to have him.

[rbaloha1]

Greg Jennings is more than a tremendous WR. He's a solid leader.

I hope that he and TT can come to terms. Many teams would love to have him.

Franchise GJ with the promise of a big future contract should he have a big year.

[MJZiggy]

Franchise GJ with the promise of a big future contract should he have a big year.
Or just come to a fair deal with him. It seems to be how we manage to hang onto most of the talent on our team...

[woodbuck27]

Franchise GJ with the promise of a big future contract should he have a big year.

We're not so rich at WR that we can just allow him to walk. I believe that even though GJ's may not look forward to it. He realizes very well that he may be franchised.

Yes your idea makes sense.

[digitaldean]

But TT has to walk that tightrope and make sure we have enough cap space to re-sign Matthews, Rodgers and Raji after next season.

[pbmax]

Its not going to happen or it already would have happened. Franchise tag will take up a huge amount of space, necessitating either (or both) delaying signing other players to contracts or giving Jennings a multi-year deal.

He's going to have to be replaced. Unless age and injury and stupidity (see James Jones offseason 2 years ago) leave him without much leverage.

[King Friday]

Jennings is in all likelihood gone. Enjoy him while you can. Thompson will pay Rodgers and Clay first...and there won't be enough money after that to pay Jennings in light of the other tremendous players we have at WR. We need help elsewhere...like tossing a boatload of cash at Raji, so AP doesn't run for 300+ in every game against us.

[King Friday]

Franchise tag will take up a huge amount of space.

Yep...there is no way in hell Jennings is franchised. That has no chance of happening.

[Patler]

Franchise tag will take up a huge amount of space, necessitating either (or both) delaying signing other players to contracts or giving Jennings a multi-year deal.

WR franchise tag for 2013 was tentatively set at $10.357 in early December, to be finalized later.