Pro-Bowl process is broken, take fans out of it.

[Patler]

Jeff Saturday??? Huh?
Great veteran, fantastic career; but a Pro-Bowler in 2012?
Seems you should have to be good enough to keep your job as a starter for that.

[Patler]

I'm in favor of players, coaches and pro scouts voting on a roster, then skip the game.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I saw that and started laughing. He was possibly the worst OL on a rather below average OL.

[pbmax]

Fans are only a 1/3 of the voting.

[Patler]

Fans are only a 1/3 of the voting.

Ya, but they are the worst as far as "reputation voting". I'm not sure how the "1/3" is actually counts, but articles in the past have implied that a very heavy fan vote for a player is difficult to overcome.

It would be interesting to see how some specialized voting would turn out, for example:

"O" players vote only for "D" and vice versa;
DBs vote for WRs and vice versa;
DLs and LBs for OL and RBs and vice versa
DC's voting for QBs

especially if teams could vote only for players on teams they played against. It's probably impractical, but would still produce interesting results.

[KYPack]

Fans are only a 1/3 of the voting.

Yeah, I say take the Pro Bowl out of the Pro Bowl.

[denverYooper]

Meh. There's only one Bowl that really means anything.

[red]

we've known for years that the o-line is all about name recognition

you only ever hear an o-linemans name mentioned if he screws up

[Lurker64]

I think you might be okay if you just restrict the fan voting to positions whose quality is, in part, reflected in stats.

Let fans vote on QBs, WRs, RBs, TEs, Pass Rushers, sure.

But when fans vote for OL, DBs, etc. they're frequently just going purely on "I've heard of that guy" (I mean, how many people here can name, off the top of their heads, the best guards in the AFC).

[mmmdk]

I think you might be okay if you just restrict the fan voting to positions whose quality is, in part, reflected in stats.

Let fans vote on QBs, WRs, RBs, TEs, Pass Rushers, sure.

But when fans vote for OL, DBs, etc. they're frequently just going purely on "I've heard of that guy" (I mean, how many people here can name, off the top of their heads, the best guards in the AFC).

I've heard of such a guy that just heard of that guy that he voted for!

[MJZiggy]

I think part of the problem is that voting starts too early in the season and when it starts, you don't really have a feel for how this year is going so you vote according to what you remember from last year. Some of us remember last year better than others...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ya, but they are the worst as far as "reputation voting". I'm not sure how the "1/3" is actually counts, but articles in the past have implied that a very heavy fan vote for a player is difficult to overcome.

It would be interesting to see how some specialized voting would turn out, for example:

"O" players vote only for "D" and vice versa;
DBs vote for WRs and vice versa;
DLs and LBs for OL and RBs and vice versa
DC's voting for QBs

especially if teams could vote only for players on teams they played against. It's probably impractical, but would still produce interesting results.

I'm not sure how difficult they are to overcome. Kuhn and Woodson led the fan vote but weren't even first alternates. Saturday had to get a pretty sizeable chunk of the votes by the players and coaches. I think everybody is to blame for that one. Of course, OL voting is the worst for "reputation voting"--even amongst the players. No hard numbers to base the vote off of.

I'd change the criteria, but there are people that complain when fans aren't given a vote. Personally, I don't care enough one way or the other.

[Patler]

Interesting comments from Raji today. Something I wasn't aware of, and even he as a player wasn't aware of until now.


“What most people don’t realize is, teams send in their votes – as a team,” said Raji. “Your individual vote doesn’t really matter too much. Each team presents a Pro Bowl ballot. I didn’t know that until this year, actually.”

Apparently, Raji takes the voting very seriously, and asks teammates who face players at different positions who are the best players that they play against.

[Patler]

I'd change the criteria, but there are people that complain when fans aren't given a vote. Personally, I don't care enough one way or the other.

I've always felt that having the fans vote is rather silly, if the team is supposed to be comprised of the best as opposed to most popular. I don't like the fan votes in any sport. But, the game itself has become a rather useless undertaking. I don't remember the last time I actually watched one.

[Jimx29]

Saturday admits he's not the most deserving choice for the Pro Bowl (http://espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=40&post_id=17261)

[Fritz]

Let the coaches vote. Make it secret ballot so they don't have to vote for their own guys.

Hell, let position coaches vote for the players at the positions they coach.

Take the fans out of it, and make the players' votes secret ballot, too, so they don't have to tell Joe Teammate they didn't vote for him.

[pbmax]

Meh. There's only one Bowl that really means anything.

I, too, love the Poulan Weedeater Bowl.

[pbmax]

I'm not sure how difficult they are to overcome. Kuhn and Woodson led the fan vote but weren't even first alternates. Saturday had to get a pretty sizeable chunk of the votes by the players and coaches. I think everybody is to blame for that one. Of course, OL voting is the worst for "reputation voting"--even amongst the players. No hard numbers to base the vote off of.

I'd change the criteria, but there are people that complain when fans aren't given a vote. Personally, I don't care enough one way or the other.


I've always felt that having the fans vote is rather silly, if the team is supposed to be comprised of the best as opposed to most popular. I don't like the fan votes in any sport. But, the game itself has become a rather useless undertaking. I don't remember the last time I actually watched one.

I think Saturday was probably helped by a higher than usual number of deserving candidates at Center. So the "expert" vote was divided among a number of alternates. I have seen at least four names mentioned as deserving over Saturday, none of whom come immediately to mind except Sullivan (alternate) from the Vikes. With a little research, I find Unger (who got in), Goodwin and Montgomery listed as more deserving.

But the "experts" still bumped him to backup.

[Pugger]

Coaches might be the best choice as voters. The players? Not so much. Remember that silly list of 100 on the NFL Network last year? Fans usually vote for either their own team's players or players they heard about on Sportscenter so it becomes a popularity contest.

[QBME]

I think Saturday was probably helped by a higher than usual number of deserving candidates at Center. So the "expert" vote was divided among a number of alternates. I have seen at least four names mentioned as deserving over Saturday, none of whom come immediately to mind except Sullivan (alternate) from the Vikes. With a little research, I find Unger (who got in), Goodwin and Montgomery listed as more deserving.

But the "experts" still bumped him to backup.

Do you think it plausible that the voters are giving him a lovely parting gift in recognition of a very long and respectable career? $30K and a week or two in Hawaii with the family.

[pbmax]

Do you think it plausible that the voters are giving him a lovely parting gift in recognition of a very long and respectable career? $30K and a week or two in Hawaii with the family.

Maybe some would, but I doubt most would vote that way. However, if the Pro Bowl hands out votes like the Baseball Hall of Fame does, there might be a lot of unqualified voters out there. Voters who might have once known something relevant, but are long since lost in a fog.

[woodbuck27]

NFC 2102 Pro Bowl players:

Center: Max Unger, and errrrrrr... what !?? ... Jeff Saturday

Saturday's inclusion is the best possible argument that fan votes should be minimized. The leading vote-getter of all offensive linemen, Saturday struggled all season before the Packers benched him after Week 16.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000117397/article/2013-pro-bowl-roster-analysis-nfc

Now Jeff Saturday will be able to act even more amazed that his time with the Green Bay Packers was 'only' one season.

[smuggler]

Centers are a mess in general. The AFC squad's starter is Maurkice Pouncey, who was the 4th best center in the AFC North (the Cincy center got injured, though) this year. Birk and Mack were both better. Then, you have Mike Pouncey, Mangold, and Chris Myers who all played noticably better through the season. Sheesh.

[Pugger]

If you need more evidence that the Pro-Bowl is a joke the Chiefs have 5 freaking players on the AFC squad! (or else is shows how lousy the AFC is this season...)

[mmmdk]

...and you let these pro-bowl voting people buy guns too? :shock: :lol:

[woodbuck27]

NFC 2102 Pro Bowl players:

Center: Max Unger, and errrrrrr... what !?? ... Jeff Saturday

Saturday's inclusion is the best possible argument that fan votes should be minimized. The leading vote-getter of all offensive linemen, Saturday struggled all season before the Packers benched him after Week 16.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000117397/article/2013-pro-bowl-roster-analysis-nfc

Now Jeff Saturday will be able to act even more amazed that his time with the Green Bay Packers was 'only' one season.

I take that back.

It seems that even Jeff Saturday is surprized that he was voted in this season.

[Lurker64]

If you need more evidence that the Pro-Bowl is a joke the Chiefs have 5 freaking players on the AFC squad! (or else is shows how lousy the AFC is this season...)

Colquitt definitely deserves inclusion on the Pro Bowl roster. You never want to say that a punter is the bright spots on your roster, but there you go.

Hali isn't the best pass rusher on his team, and Berry isn't one of the best 7 safeties in the AFC this year.

Charles earned his spot, and I have no real problem with Derrick Johnson in the PB either.

[Packers4Glory]

5 chiefs made it...nuff said.

[swede]

...and you let these pro-bowl voting people buy guns too? :shock: :lol:

And vote for President.

[Noodle]

Saturday likely received significant player support due to his role in the labor negotiations. My guess is that he garners a lot of respect from players, and they were probably aware this was one of the last chances to send him to Hawaii, so there you have it. Can't say that this causes me much outrage.