RGIII's knee [Archive] - PackerRats.com

red

01-07-2013, 06:45 PM

this is why you don't keep playing your injured superstar

he came into the game with a "mild sprain of the LCL"

we all so the knee buckle yesterday and its now being reported that an early MRI done last night shows possible tears of both the LCL and now ACL

the redskins are saying that they don't know if the injuries are new or old (he torn his ACL in college), however PFT makes a great point. 4 weeks ago the redskins showed that MRI's showed no structural damage to the knee at all. so if the LCL and ACL now looked torn, it would have to be a new injury.

the skins gave up 3 first round picks, and a second round pick to get him, now their coach just put the future of his team in jeopardy by continuing to ride is QB when it was clear he was injured.

RgIII's 2013 season now looks to be in jeopardy

Pugger

01-07-2013, 06:50 PM

I heard he could be out for up to 14 months! Damn fools in DC. Maybe Robert should consult with AP's doctors...

red

01-07-2013, 06:53 PM

I heard he could be out for up to 14 months! Damn fools in DC. Maybe Robert should consult with AP's doctors...

roberts doctor is AP's doctor

james andrews is the knee guru that fixed up AP, he's also the redskins team doctor and the guy RGIII will be going to see tomorrow

Pugger

01-07-2013, 07:02 PM

roberts doctor is AP's doctor

james andrews is the knee guru that fixed up AP, he's also the redskins team doctor and the guy RGIII will be going to see tomorrow

Good. I like RG3. I think he is an exciting player and I hope the idiots in DC don't mess around with him like that again.

Freak Out

01-07-2013, 07:13 PM

Didn't that Rat play him against the advice of the good doctor?

red

01-07-2013, 07:14 PM

let me throw out an anology. this is how i felt yesterday. and just to be clear, i was tearing up a bit while i was yelling at the TV to get the poor kid out of there

if that was the kentucky derby and a horse broke out of the gate and immediately started to hobble, the jockey would quickly try and bring the horse to a stop and get off of him to try and prevent further damage.

what we saw was a horse break from the gate and get injured on the front stretch. instead of slowing the horse down and getting off of him, we saw the jockey pull out the whip and take it to the horse. we watch the horse get worse and worse as it went around the track only to watch the horse destroy itself coming back into the front stretch

if RGIII wasn't a human his coach would be brought up on cruelty charges

gbgary

01-07-2013, 08:47 PM

as someone wrote yesterday...makes you appreciate the Packers' conservative approach with bringing injured players back. damn shame about rg3...he'll probably miss at least half of next season (depending on what they do and what kind of rehab warrior he is).

LegandofthePack15

01-08-2013, 01:11 AM

if RGIII wasn't a human his coach would be brought up on cruelty charges

The Chargers once let Rivers play the whole game with a torn ACL.

Its the playoffs. Players usually display Favre toughness and play through an injury, Jay Cutler and Christian Ponder notwithstanding (not that I am complaining).

Joemailman

01-08-2013, 07:59 AM

sheepshead

01-08-2013, 08:08 AM

Shanny is a past-his-prime head coach with a highly caffeinated owner that got caught up in the hype. Hopefully he didn’t ruin a good kid. Leslie Frazier’s example should have been heeded.

Frazier earned more of my respect with his move and it tells me the Vikings will be a contender for a while.

mmmdk

01-08-2013, 08:18 AM

mraynrand

01-08-2013, 09:01 AM

Red, the horse analogy doesn't hold up because the horse doesn't have a choice. RGIII came out in support of his coach, so it seems he pushed really hard to play. I was reminded of the situation early in Michael Jordan's career where he had a leg injury and for a while continued to play through it. I seem to recall his coach (Collins) eventually wanted to shut him down, but Jordan kept pushing. In part, that conflict led to the dismissal of Collins. RGIII seems to have done about the same thing, except for not being a jerk. To me, once I realized how limited RGII was, it seemed like an easy call to replace him, but then I saw what happened to the team when he was visibly hurting - they collapsed. The one thing that seems kinda obvious is that Shanny knew there was a pretty good chance RGIII couldn't finish, it was certain he wasn't going to be able to run much, so that it would have made a hell of a lot of sense to replace RGIII at halftime and run the offense they used to beat Cleveland with the other rookie Kirk Cousins (He's Kirk, he should be able to kick some ass). Isn't that why they drafted him anyway?

pbmax

01-08-2013, 09:06 AM

The Chargers once let Rivers play the whole game with a torn ACL.

Its the playoffs. Players usually display Favre toughness and play through an injury, Jay Cutler and Christian Ponder notwithstanding (not that I am complaining).

Dennis Dixon did this as well, came back to play without an ACL in the same season.

However, in neither case was the tear the second in the same knee for either player.

If Griffin didn't have a complete tear before he stumbled with the bad snap, then its a call you make based on speculation. With a second injury to the same knee, I think Andrews should have insisted on him coming out.

But as Coach, Shanahan could plainly see he could not run effectively anymore. To continue with him was just wishful thinking and a lack of faith in the backup. Both are poor reflections on the Head Coach.

wootah

01-08-2013, 09:07 AM

I agree with red on this topic: it was just painful to watch. When it was clear they weren't pulling him, it became just hoping he would get to the end without more harm.

RG3 is a fighter. He would've got back into the game with a wheelchair if they let him. Shanahan made a huge coaching mistake IMO, he should have made him ride the stationary bike.

Pugger

01-08-2013, 09:27 AM

Dennis Dixon did this as well, came back to play without an ACL in the same season.

However, in neither case was the tear the second in the same knee for either player.

If Griffin didn't have a complete tear before he stumbled with the bad snap, then its a call you make based on speculation. With a second injury to the same knee, I think Andrews should have insisted on him coming out.

But as Coach, Shanahan could plainly see he could not run effectively anymore. To continue with him was just wishful thinking and a lack of faith in the backup. Both are poor reflections on the Head Coach.

What is crazy is Cousins did play well enough to them to win a few weeks ago. They got a 2 score lead but because their offense shut down with a crippled RG3 it was only a matter of time before the Wash defense ran out of gas. I don't care what the idiots on BSPN were saying that you don't take a guy out in that situation because he is your starter. If the guy can't perform up to standards you bring somebody in who can at least walk without a limp and can complete a pass. Shanahan was also stupid not to hand it off to their RB, especially when they were on their own 4 yard line. After a 3 and out the chickens of the SEA had a short field and scored.

Brandon494

01-08-2013, 11:08 AM

Dr. Andrews even called him out before the game and this still happens, huge mistake by Shanahan. RGIII is the franchise and he was still running design QB running plays with a gimby Griffin.

pbmax

01-08-2013, 11:26 AM

Andrews is now saying that Shanahan did not lie. The coverup is always worse than the original crime.

RashanGary

01-08-2013, 02:05 PM

A couple years ago Ladanian Tomlinson played on a bum knee. He got hurt in the game. People ripped him a new ass hole for going out mid-game when it looked like maybe he could play.

No matter how you do it, no matter who you are, some people will bitch up a storm.

Ask me, they made the right call to play RGIII. They made the wrong call by playing him as long as they did. It was obvious when his knee fatigued and his ability to move spiraled down. The 2nd half, they should not have played RGIII. I think a lot of him for wanting to play and making sure it happened. Guy is a competitor, tough. . . . I'm a fan. And I'm a fan of Shannahan. He did the thing. He let his leader lead. He just didn't use good judgement once it became apparent RGIII was hurting the team.

Cheesehead Craig

01-08-2013, 02:51 PM

Not ripping on RGIII as he wanted to play. It was Shanahan's call to take him out and that was where the fault lies.

Patler

01-08-2013, 03:08 PM

Guiness

01-08-2013, 03:34 PM

Exactly. It seems to me that two years ago, on this very site, we ridiculed Cutler and the Bears when he went out in the playoff game. "After all, it was playoffs................"

Well put. What would the reaction have been if friend Kirk was in the game and RGKnee was pacing the sidelines for a Washington loss? Who would've been crucified, him or Shanahan?

Lurker64

01-08-2013, 03:55 PM

The Chargers once let Rivers play the whole game with a torn ACL.

Its the playoffs. Players usually display Favre toughness and play through an injury, Jay Cutler and Christian Ponder notwithstanding (not that I am complaining).

There's a big difference between letting a guy play on an ACL that's already torn, and continuing to play a guy after it was apparent his gimpy leg was preventing him from being effective, resulting in him tearing his ACL.

Mr. Griffin was fine to start the game, but after a hit he took on the goal line in the second quarter (I believe) he simply wasn't playing effectively and it was obvious that he just wasn't right. That was the time to take him out.

Cheesehead Craig

01-08-2013, 04:07 PM

Exactly. It seems to me that two years ago, on this very site, we ridiculed Cutler and the Bears when he went out in the playoff game. "After all, it was playoffs................"

Yeah, but that's Cutler and he's just a pussy.

red

01-08-2013, 04:42 PM

there's an argument to be made that a guy should stay in the game if he is clearly the best option to win.

once he got injured in the first quarter he stopped being the best option to win. maybe RGIII at 75 or 80% still could have won that game. but the RGIII i saw after that first injury was playing at 10-15%. he was absolutely worthless. he couldn't run, yet they kept trying to run him. he couldn't put any weight on that leg on the drop back or to throw. he was horrible after that first injury

all the redskins had to do IMO after they went up 14-0 and RG3 got hurt was to have a couple more sustained drives in the last 3 quarters, and get a couple FG's and they would have won that game. Cousins had the much better shot at doing that after the injury

first quarter
6-9, 2 tds
64 yrds passing
12 rushing

rest of game (2.5 quarters)

4-10, 2 sacks, 1 int, one fumble lost (don't know if that is his fault, it was a horrible snap but without the leg blowing out he would have easily fallen on it)
17 yards passing
9 yards rushing

Jimx29

01-09-2013, 03:13 AM

He's getting a complete ACL/LCL rebuild (https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/288888298867400704)

SkinBasket

01-09-2013, 07:28 AM

He's getting a complete ACL/LCL rebuild (https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/288888298867400704)

Good for him. He should get something for being a slave to the white man.

sheepshead

01-09-2013, 07:40 AM

As I’ve said before and it pains me to say this, the Vikings with Leslie Frazier’s leadership will be contenders a lot longer than this latest version of Dan Snyder’s circus.

QBME

01-09-2013, 07:45 AM

Good for him. He should get something for being a slave to the white man.

Wait a minute. I thought Robert was a cornball brother - aren't the two mutually exclusive?

pbmax

01-09-2013, 09:23 AM

Well put. What would the reaction have been if friend Kirk was in the game and RGKnee was pacing the sidelines for a Washington loss? Who would've been crucified, him or Shanahan?

Might have blown up, but not like Cutler. Most of the world missed that Cutler actually did go back into the game after the injury but had trouble playing. This wasn't clear at the time but in hindsight I remember the drive he came back in on, right before the half I think.

In Griffin's case, he had a previous injury and missed two games. And at several points, it was clear he was either hurt worse and the injury was affecting his game.

Kiwon

01-09-2013, 09:44 AM

People are crazy.... I've never seen more Monday morning quarterbacking or medical "experts" who gained their knowledge without needing to go to med school.

Quick!! Look at the graphic of Robert Griffin III's knee!! It's really, really different than other people's knee! http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/01/09/redskins-robert-griffin-iii-reconstructive-surgery-acl-lcl/1819605/

RGIII made a choice, Shanahan made a choice based upon his interaction with RGIII.

Why are people speaking as if Shanahan is sitting in a living room watching endless replays on HD TV? The guy is standing on the sidelines and directing his team in real time. His mind is on a thousand different things, in addition to the health of his quarterback.

The Washington Nationals shut down 15-6 All-Star pitcher Stephen Strasburg a month before the baseball season ended and kept him from the Playoffs. They were blasted from every direction, including the pitcher himself. Their concern? - His long-term health. The media and the fans reaction? - The Nats are crazy for not going with their best pitcher. They are blowing a very, very rare opportunity to make it to the World Series.

To let RGIII or Strasburg play or not play, either decision is controversial and debatable. This certitude, after the fact, though, that's what is annoying.

Kiwon

01-09-2013, 09:53 AM

Good for him. He should get something for being a slave to the white man.

Word is...Quentin Tarantino is going to add RGIII and Dan Snyder dolls to his collection.

http://allhiphop.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/django-dolls.jpg?w=620

Patler

01-09-2013, 10:04 AM

The Washington Nationals shut down 15-6 All-Star pitcher Stephen Strasburg a month before the baseball season ended and kept him from the Playoffs. They were blasted from every direction, including the pitcher himself. Their concern? - His long-term health. The media and the fans reaction? - The Nats are crazy for not going with their best pitcher. They are blowing a very, very rare opportunity to make it to the World Series.

To let RGIII or Strasburg play or not play, either decision is controversial and debatable. This certitude, after the fact, though, that's what is annoying.

That was the only second half of the Strasburg fiasco. In his rookie year, after Strasburg was held out of several games, one of the Nationals own announcers, Rob Dibble (himself a former MLB pitcher), was very critical of Strasburg, saying he needed to toughen up, and that he couldn't sit out every time he had a stiff shoulder or sore elbow. This was the major leagues after all, and you pitch even when you hurt a little. A couple days later, it was determined that Strasburg had a torn ligament in his elbow, needed Tommy John surgery. would miss the rest of that season and most of the following season.

pbmax

01-09-2013, 10:14 AM

People are crazy.... I've never seen more Monday morning quarterbacking or medical "experts" who gained their knowledge without needing to go to med school.

...

RGIII made a choice, Shanahan made a choice based upon his interaction with RGIII.

Why are people speaking as if Shanahan is sitting in a living room watching endless replays on HD TV? The guy is standing on the sidelines and directing his team in real time. His mind is on a thousand different things, in addition to the health of his quarterback.

The same factor is at work that demanded instant replay. Fans can see in great detail the stupidity on the field.

If I can see Colt McCoy get a likely concussive blow from James Harrison yet the team medical personnel and coaches don't know this, or wish to pretend they don't know, that is not a problem with fans, TV or the media. That is a problem for the team, player and coach. They probably need to amend rules so that medical personnel somewhere can view the TV broadcast. You cannot be serious about this issue if you cannot remove a player after an blow like that for evaluation.

We don't need a Dancing With the Stars online vote to help team Doctors, we just need the League and team to take advantage of the same technology they use to enforce all the other rules.

As for Shanahan, Griffin had a prior injury that caused him to miss parts of two games and was hindering his play going into the game. It was apparent on at least one of his runs during the first two drives. His play got worse as the game went on. I cannot know with absolute metaphysical certainty that Shanahan knew Griffin was hobbling, but it seems likely. It was evident not from replay, but live action. But I can see a case where the coach doesn't see it or is not made aware. So someone, somewhere in the stadium should be watching for him.

pbmax

01-09-2013, 10:17 AM

That was the only second half of the Strasburg fiasco. In his rookie year, after Strasburg was held out of several games, one of the Nationals own announcers, Rob Dibble (himself a former MLB pitcher), was very critical of Strasburg, saying he needed to toughen up, and that he couldn't sit out every time he had a stiff shoulder or sore elbow. This was the major leagues after all, and you pitch even when you hurt a little. A couple days later, it was determined that Strasburg had a torn ligament in his elbow, needed Tommy John surgery. would miss the rest of that season and most of the following season.

Team employ PR departments to avoid public embarrassments and keep the waves of public emotion away from the critical decision making progress. If the Nationals or Redskins are making decisions based on tomorrow's headlines (like, say, the Jets) then there is little hope for them.

pbmax

01-09-2013, 11:49 AM

Kiwon

01-09-2013, 11:51 AM

I blame Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy, and Brad Childress for not pulling Favre before his last pass in a playoff game was intercepted. They should have known.

pbmax

01-09-2013, 12:25 PM

MarkMaske ‏@MarkMaske
R. Griffin's surgery is completed, according to person close to situation. Griffin had both his LCL and ACL repaired.

pbmax

01-09-2013, 12:26 PM

I blame Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy, and Brad Childress for not pulling Favre before his last pass in a playoff game was intercepted. They should have known.

Agreed. We all knew by then. :)

mraynrand

01-09-2013, 12:34 PM

MarkMaske ‏@MarkMaske
R. Griffin's surgery is completed, according to person close to situation. Griffin had both his LCL and ACL repaired.

I'll be interested to know what they really did. He already had the ACL repaired - I assume they originally used a part of the patellar ligament, so did they just try and reattach a ruptured ligament, or did they have to harvest a new ligament piece and do a complete reconstruction? Sometimes they use part of the hamstring to repair/replace an ACL, but IIRC, they don't typically do this as it will compromise the hammy. What a mess. The LCL should be totally fine. Good thing they drafted Cousins. That's looking very, very smart from a team that looks very, very stupid for how they handled RGIII.

mraynrand

01-09-2013, 12:37 PM

Might have blown up, but not like Cutler. Most of the world missed that Cutler actually did go back into the game after the injury but had trouble playing. This wasn't clear at the time but in hindsight I remember the drive he came back in on, right before the half I think.

Still, he threw a reasonable deep ball that Shields intercepted. He wasn't hurting horribly, but the optics were bad, nevertheless. Plus, personally speaking, I think the guy's a tool, so I'm just going to judge him more harshly. That aspect had nothing to do with the injury, just pure anti-Cutler prejudice.

gbgary

01-09-2013, 01:10 PM

I'll be interested to know what they really did. He already had the ACL repaired - I assume they originally used a part of the patellar ligament, so did they just try and reattach a ruptured ligament, or did they have to harvest a new ligament piece and do a complete reconstruction? Sometimes they use part of the hamstring to repair/replace an ACL, but IIRC, they don't typically do this as it will compromise the hammy. What a mess. The LCL should be totally fine. Good thing they drafted Cousins. That's looking very, very smart from a team that looks very, very stupid for how they handled RGIII.

athletes seldom have the patellar tendon used in acl surgery as to speed up the recovery. it just leads to tendenitus. they ususally use cadaver tendons. his recovery time will be dictated by how big a rehab monster he is. it's all about rebuilding the strength in the quad.

mraynrand

01-09-2013, 01:47 PM

athletes seldom have the patellar tendon used in acl surgery as to speed up the recovery. it just leads to tendenitus. they ususally use cadaver tendons.

Jerry rice used his - that's how he got the second injury. What you say makes sense. Maybe they can use Dick Jauron as a donor?

Guiness

01-09-2013, 01:51 PM

OK, perhaps not completely torn?

Judy Battista ‏@judybattista
RT @MarkMaske: R. Griffin surgery ongoing, person close to situation just said. ACL found in decent condition but "needs to be stronger."
Retweeted by SC_DougFarrar

We're getting live updates DURING the surgery now? How does that work, did they have a runner going in and out of the op room? This reminds me of an SNL skit (or was is a Doonesbury comic?) where they were selling a service that allowed you to view the output from Cheney's heart rate monitor.

pbmax

01-09-2013, 02:01 PM

We're getting live updates DURING the surgery now? How does that work, did they have a runner going in and out of the op room? This reminds me of an SNL skit (or was is a Doonesbury comic?) where they were selling a service that allowed you to view the output from Cheney's heart rate monitor.

Someone asked online if it was ethical for Maske to pose as a nurse during surgery.

mraynrand

01-09-2013, 02:03 PM

I want the feed from the Webcam mounted on the Surgeon's forehead

pbmax

01-09-2013, 02:06 PM

I want the feed from the Webcam mounted on the Surgeon's forehead

You could throw a challenge flag if they use the wrong suture.

Patler

01-09-2013, 02:31 PM

You could throw a challenge flag if they use the wrong suture.

How about viewer participation? Should they use:

"a" - hamstring (Vote by calling call 1-800-HAM-STRG)
"b" - patellar tendon (call 1-800-PAT-TNDN)
"c" - cadaver (call 1-800- DEADGUY)

mraynrand

01-09-2013, 02:35 PM

How about viewer participation? Should they use:

"a" - hamstring (Vote by calling call 1-800-HAM-STRG)
"b" - patellar tendon (call 1-800-PAT-TNDN)
"c" - cadaver (call 1-800- DJAURON)

FIFY repped

Guiness

01-09-2013, 03:44 PM

How about viewer participation? Should they use:

"a" - hamstring (Vote by calling call 1-800-HAM-STRG)
"b" - patellar tendon (call 1-800-PAT-TNDN)
"c" - cadaver (call 1-800- DEADGUY)

$0.75/call?

Freak Out

01-09-2013, 04:16 PM

Yep....those need to be 900 numbers. LOL! Maybe GoPro could sponsor the whole thing.

denverYooper

01-09-2013, 04:44 PM

Yep....those need to be 900 numbers. LOL! Maybe GoPro could sponsor the whole thing.

A buddy of mine got a free GoPro and made a video of himself mowing the lawn. He also put it on his 2 year old's helmet when she was on her bigwheel.

red

01-09-2013, 05:17 PM

athletes seldom have the patellar tendon used in acl surgery as to speed up the recovery. it just leads to tendenitus. they ususally use cadaver tendons. his recovery time will be dictated by how big a rehab monster he is. it's all about rebuilding the strength in the quad.

if they use a cadaver tendon then that would be a full blown rebuild, correct?

not just a simple repair to the ACL like the initial word is trying to call it

gbgary

01-09-2013, 06:22 PM

if they use a cadaver tendon then that would be a full blown rebuild, correct?

not just a simple repair to the ACL like the initial word is trying to call it

right. it's two screws and a new tendon.

Jimx29

01-09-2013, 06:46 PM

*design by Shanahan*

http://i.imgur.com/cg7VF.jpg

gbgary

01-09-2013, 06:49 PM

swede

01-09-2013, 06:56 PM

Jerry rice used his - that's how he got the second injury. What you say makes sense. Maybe they can use Dick Jauron as a donor?

Make sure you check the "use by" date.

Kiwon

01-09-2013, 07:10 PM

You could throw a challenge flag if they use the wrong suture.

"That surgeon, he doesn't know what's he's doing! Is he blind? My 90-year old grandma can repair a knee better than that!....in the dark!!

Synder's an idiot! A real fool!! Yeah, sure, he's a billionaire and I'm unemployed and put cash in stripper's g-strings....thanks (the person who shall not be named in the Packers thread)!....but ANYONE would know better than to hire a quote, 'surgeon' like this jerk! Obviously, he lied and he's really a Cowboys fan!!"

mraynrand

01-09-2013, 07:48 PM

just saw a doctor on nfl network describe rg3's surgery and they DID use his patellar...from his left knee. they used his right patellar on his previous surgery. surprised they did that as it is, in effect, an injury to his left knee. he'll surely have to deal with some tendonitis now.

I consulted with an ortho surgeon. Apparently, there is a higher rate of infection and lower quality with cadaver parts. Especially from Jauron.