The Level-Headed Thread About the Defense.

[3irty1]

I'm ok with firing Capers if he can be replaced with a stud like Lovie Smith. Lovie is like a Mike McCarthy on Defense, he never puts a trash Defense on the field. Clay Matthews is no reason to keep Capers. Seattle has 2 or 3 guys in Clay Matthews mold and manages to get production out of all of them. Clay is good enough at everything to be a star in any system.

I'm also ok with keeping Capers. One of Capers's real strengths seems to be getting the best out of all these UFA's he's been given but that in itself is a problem. We've been incredibly unlucky with injuries the past 3 seasons and its a huge testimate to TT and Capers that we've managed to keep winning despite having our depth so riggourously tested. Capers or not this defensive front 7 needs another injection of talent both on the DL and the LBer positons. Last year was the year of the QB and this year was the year of the running QB. These are shiny new offenses run by players like RGIII, Wilson, Newton, and Kaepernick are not a gimmick and everyone in the league will be retooling to stop this offseason including the Packers. The Packers should too and I think Dom can do it if TT can find him the Players.

In 2009 the Packers were among the best in the league at stoping the run. The 3-4 is inherently a stronger run-stopping defense than the 4-3 but we also had a meaty line of Pickett, Raji, and Johnny Jolly. PIckett and Jolly were both among the very elite against the run. Raji was above average and also just very hard to move.

In 2010 the Packers lost Jolly but still fielded the best overall defense we've seen under Dom Capers. Capers managed to take the strength of his defense, stopping the run, and turn it into a great all-around defense by putting Pickett and Raji on the field at the same time in what otherwise was a pass-defense. The result was to dare the opposition to run against the favorable formation but the Packers were still good enough at stopping it that they could bend but not break perfectly. When the run absolutely needed to be stopped the Packers added Howard Green to their 3-4 for a 3 man front that weighed over 1000 pounds and could not be moved. Rotationally CJ Wilson proved serviceable in running situations and a healthy Jenkins could be dominate at times in passing situations.

In 2011 the wheels fell off although the only major change on defense was the loss of Jenkins. There was regression for several individuals but the main reason was that this defense did not keep up with the Jones's. Last year the whole league went nuts with passing. 4 QB's would have won the MVP for 2012 with their numbers from 2011. I can't really say if we were still great against the run because every game was a shootout. It was clear after this season that we must retool by boosting the talent of our secondary and overhauling our pass rush. We did exactly that.

In 2012 the defense was much improved. Hayward emerged as a top slot cornerback in the NFL, a position at a premium right now in the NFL. Nick Perry, as well as undersized Mike Daniels was added to boost the pass rush and Worthy fell into our lap as a solid DL prospect. Unfortuantely injuries again ravaged the offensive line and defensive front 7. The offense while still potent was not the record setting monster from the year before and it once again made sense to run against the Packers. And teams did and they were successful. Turns out our year off from having to care about the run has weakened our defense's strongest quality. I think its time to retool again. Another big body is needed both the supplement and eventually replace Ryan Pickett. Another NT anchor type who can hold up. At least one OLB is needed to displace Walden and platoon with Perry. I appreciate Walden's willingness to sacrafice his body and play with such ferocity, but we need someone more athletic assignment sure. Walden's best spot might be as an ILB where his phyicallity and instincts are missing. ILB should be addressed as well. Jones is a situational linebacker at best and getting back Bishop and Smith will put him back on the bench. While Barnett is a solid player with the potential to break out and become a pro-bowler, we've not had great play from our other safety position since Nick Collins. The guys we have are good enough to win with but until we have an elite safety I think its wise to keep searching.

Assuming we stick with Dom, what changes would you like to see made?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

The Woodson/MD Jennings Combo at safety is not working. Burnett is decent but I don’t know if he is a pro bowler. Next season well be his make or break year. Either he will continue to be decent or he make a big leap and become an above average player. Considering how much Woodson is making coupled with his decline in performance I don’t see how they could keep him. MD is a stick trying to be a safety; I have no hope for him to turn into a player. McMillan? Who knows. He seems decent, but so did Bigby. I think drafting a safety should be a high priority.

The CB position is fine. Williams has not played nearly as good as he did in 2010 but he is not horrible. Between Him, Shields, House, and Hayward I don’t see a weakness at CB. If the front 7 is fixed, the secondary talent will show.

ILB – Bishop is a good player, Smith is a good backup. Hawk is a decent player, but not worth the money he is making. Everyone else is bad. Cut Hawk draft a quality player who is hopefully a playmaker next to Bishop.

OLB – Clay is a stud. Perry looks decent at stopping the run, but I don’t think he will ever be decent at trying to cover anyone. I think they need to find yet another OLB and let Perry play more of a hybrid role. Maybe on the ground sometimes (passing downs?) and standing up on first and second down.

DL – Raji is a good player. Worthy/Daniels are hard to judge. Are they players? Its to early to tell. Mike Neal seems decent, but nowhere near as disruptive as Jenkins was. Pickett is getting old, but he is still a decent player. He has one year left on his contract so he eventually needs to be replaced regardless.

Need another defense heavy draft. I hope they keep the Wr’s intact so that they can focus on fixing the defense in the draft. Even if they lose Finley, if they keep Jennings, the offense will still be top 10. Draft defense defense defense.

[wist43]

I started building the "Fire Dom!!!" bandwagon a long time ago - but it's simply not going to happen. Since that is the case, how do we put lipstick on the pig??

We're still woefully underpowered in our front seven. TT made some progress with drafting Worthy, Perry, and Daniels, but of course Capers misused them. TT needs to bring in a couple more strong, run stuffing, 2 gap defensive linemen, and completely rebuild the linebacking corp.

Jones, Zombo, Hawk, and Walden all need to be replaced.

In the back end, I'd like to see more physicality out of our safeties and corners, but that simply isn't going to happen. All the Packers care about is coverage - and they don't even do that well; but the coverage problems I put on Capers. I think our DB's are well suited to being solid in coverage, but will never do anything in run support and their tackling will always be a joke. The Packers as an organization really do think the game is more akin to flag football and will never bring in physical DB's as long as TT, MM, and Capers are calling the shots.

In short, we're stuck with the mess we have b/c of the overall philosophy of the Packers organization. They believe in finesse football. Running the ball on offense is only a function of the passing game; and stopping the run on defense can only be achieved by the opposing offense being forced away from the run b/c we got out to a lead and they have to play catch up.

We can win games against other finesse teams, or teams that are offensively challenged - like the Bears; but a leopard doesn't change his spots, and the Packers aren't going to make any changes.

We're stuck with what we have. Our identity as a team is finesse. That isn't going to change, and Capers will continue to be Capers.

[George Cumby]

I started building the "Fire Dom!!!" bandwagon a long time ago - but it's simply not going to happen. Since that is the case, how do we put lipstick on the pig??

We're still woefully underpowered in our front seven. TT made some progress with drafting Worthy, Perry, and Daniels, but of course Capers misused them. TT needs to bring in a couple more strong, run stuffing, 2 gap defensive linemen, and completely rebuild the linebacking corp.

Jones, Zombo, Hawk, and Walden all need to be replaced.

In the back end, I'd like to see more physicality out of our safeties and corners, but that simply isn't going to happen. All the Packers care about is coverage - and they don't even do that well; but the coverage problems I put on Capers. I think our DB's are well suited to being solid in coverage, but will never do anything in run support and their tackling will always be a joke. The Packers as an organization really do think the game is more akin to flag football and will never bring in physical DB's as long as TT, MM, and Capers are calling the shots.

In short, we're stuck with the mess we have b/c of the overall philosophy of the Packers organization. They believe in finesse football. Running the ball on offense is only a function of the passing game; and stopping the run on defense can only be achieved by the opposing offense being forced away from the run b/c we got out to a lead and they have to play catch up.

We can win games against other finesse teams, or teams that are offensively challenged - like the Bears; but a leopard doesn't change his spots, and the Packers aren't going to make any changes.

We're stuck with what we have. Our identity as a team is finesse. That isn't going to change, and Capers will continue to be Capers.

Ok. I'm with you now. That was a fucking ass-kicking that started up front. Although I hate to say it, this Defense needs a fucking thug, a Ray Lewis, Wayne Simmons type to give the D a little savagery to put the fear into people, including his own teammates.

[mraynrand]

I think it's pretty well covered that the front 7 are terrible undermanned - at least 3 LBs are substandard and last night, with Pickett hurt, there was maybe 1-2 DL worth anything. That's personnel and there's no getting around that when you're facing a very elite OL. But players, scheme or not have to make plays. Matthews, who everyone in every thread here calls "a stud" either played like crap and/or was thoroughly dominated for 3+ quarters. I get the idea of blitzing a rookie QB, who may get the jitters, but when after a first INT, he settles down and starts scorching you for runs as well as very accurate passes against the blitz - and you're not getting there with the blitz, you probably should make some adjustments. Nevertheless, the simple fact is that the Packers are four decent players and one stud short on the defensive side of the ball. There were absolutely manhandled, abused, and thrashed in the second half. The second half looked like Alabama/Notre Dame. Right now the Packers are not in the niners class, and it's very hard to see how they get there in just one off season.

[LEWCWA]

I really aint buying none of that....This team got gashed last night,imo, because they can't/didn't play zone. Against this type of offense you have to have eyes facing the play and GB all too often had 6 sets of eyes with their back to the los. I believe if they could have been effective in a zone defense using Woodson to follow CK all over the field this would have been a different game. GB thought they could contain with 4 or 5 guys and well they couldn't. Waldon crashing killed them and Woodson not spying CK left slow footed players trying to catch this kid! It was painfully abvious that someone had to account for CK early, but GB never did any of that! Woodson should have been the answer, but he was absent in whatever scheme they were running.....It is apparent to me that you have to force this kid to beat you with his arm! He is much better than what they saw against MN, but was really only ok throwing until things got outta hand and GB's d had been on the field all night....

[mraynrand]

...It is apparent to me that you have to force this kid to beat you with his arm!

well, he did just that too, in case you missed it. Deep connection to Davis, and pinpoint passes and TD to Crabtree, some past very tight coverage. I'll accept that maybe with a zone the Packers might have bled a little more slowly, but with zero pass pressure, they were going to surrender a lot of yards, especially since their DBs are not all that hot at playing zone. Packers front 7 is total shit right now - at least against the kind of O lines and QBs they will need to get past to win a championship.

[LEWCWA]

Yes late he really made some solid throws, but buy that time the D had been on the field for the whole game and his confidence was sky high! Early in the game his throws were erratic at best, Christ at one point I think I saw he was 13-27....You keep a QB under 50% they shouldn't beat you, but when you add 150+ yards running your done!

[LEWCWA]

Let me preface this with the fact that CK played an excellent game! I would have much rather seem him forced to sustain drives with his arm rather than his legs. I saw plenty of throws that were close to being picked and plenty that were just spot on. Well he is an NFL QB and should be able to make throws. I saw Woodson come close to a pick, I saw Tramon gamble on a pick(had the ball been outside/instead of inside) that would have went for six. The kid would have missed throws and maybe put some in your hands. I do agree the front didn't do the job, but alot of that had to do with CK's athleticism. I saw some pressure that normal QB's would have caved under, but this kid is so good with his feet that once you don't get home your in trouble! I thought clay was good early, but going against a hurt player he either got tired of confused. Clay was not good last night either.....I still contend Woodson was the key, his assignment should have been number 7 at least from the second quarter on!

[wist43]

I really aint buying none of that....This team got gashed last night,imo, because they can't/didn't play zone. Against this type of offense you have to have eyes facing the play and GB all too often had 6 sets of eyes with their back to the los. I believe if they could have been effective in a zone defense using Woodson to follow CK all over the field this would have been a different game. GB thought they could contain with 4 or 5 guys and well they couldn't. Waldon crashing killed them and Woodson not spying CK left slow footed players trying to catch this kid! It was painfully abvious that someone had to account for CK early, but GB never did any of that! Woodson should have been the answer, but he was absent in whatever scheme they were running.....It is apparent to me that you have to force this kid to beat you with his arm! He is much better than what they saw against MN, but was really only ok throwing until things got outta hand and GB's d had been on the field all night....

I'm the blitz happiest guy on this board, but I would have tempered that in this game b/c of CK's running ability. Capers's gameplan was moronic, and he never changed out of it.

I would have come into the game with a much more traditional 3-4, gap-control, contain the QB in the pocket up front; scheme the coverage to take away Davis and Crabtree on obvious passing downs, and adjust from there; and yes, I would have played more zone.

Capers is Capers though... he's always slow to adjust. The players have complained about it in the past, and in this game he didn't adjust at all. Nothing left to do but throw tomatos at the screen and wonder what in God's name goes thru Capers head as he's watching this shit unfold from up in the booth.

Yes we're undermanned up front, but even with being undermanned to some extent, there's no excuse for getting gashed for 2,000 yards and 150 pts. That's on Capers.

[3irty1]

The Woodson/MD Jennings Combo at safety is not working. Burnett is decent but I don’t know if he is a pro bowler. Next season well be his make or break year. Either he will continue to be decent or he make a big leap and become an above average player. Considering how much Woodson is making coupled with his decline in performance I don’t see how they could keep him. MD is a stick trying to be a safety; I have no hope for him to turn into a player. McMillan? Who knows. He seems decent, but so did Bigby. I think drafting a safety should be a high priority.

At this point in Woodson's career he can really only carry the assignments of an undersized linebacker. Burnett isn't yet a probowler but it wouldn't surprise anyone if he were to make that transition. McMillian is promising in that he's a marvelous athlete and shows promise as a tackler with better than expected ball skills but is still probably a few years away if he is to become the stud we're looking for. I don't want to wait to see what he becomes, I agree that the search must continue. Safties have a very low bust-rate and are typically more NFL ready than other defeinsive postions as rookies.

As always, the Packers success will hinge on the progression of 2nd and 3rd year players although not if they keep getting robbed of their offseasons because of injuries. Neal is a strong candidate to take a step forward and become a difference maker. Worthy could beome a solid any-situation type player if he can make it back in time for next season. I'll be interested to see how Moses progresses. Perry can single-handedly make the defense elite if he can figure things out and stay healthy. Tons of potential there.

[LEWCWA]

I'm the blitz happiest guy on this board, but I would have tempered that in this game b/c of CK's running ability. Capers's gameplan was moronic, and he never changed out of it.

I would have come into the game with a much more traditional 3-4, gap-control, contain the QB in the pocket up front; scheme the coverage to take away Davis and Crabtree on obvious passing downs, and adjust from there; and yes, I would have played more zone.

Capers is Capers though... he's always slow to adjust. The players have complained about it in the past, and in this game he didn't adjust at all. Nothing left to do but throw tomatos at the screen and wonder what in God's name goes thru Capers head as he's watching this shit unfold from up in the booth.

Yes we're undermanned up front, but even with being undermanned to some extent, there's no excuse for getting gashed for 2,000 years and 150 pts. That's on Capers.


I think we are saying the same things in a different way...Yeah much of what I say falls on Capers. I think this team was suprised by how fast and strong CK is. I guess really this def got toasted on 3rd down. Plenty of times they had them 3rd and semi long and couldn't get off the field! And yes I agree that is mostly on Capers, but quite a few times the play was there to be made and it just wasn't!

[Joemailman]

I'm the blitz happiest guy on this board, but I would have tempered that in this game b/c of CK's running ability. Capers's gameplan was moronic, and he never changed out of it.

I would have come into the game with a much more traditional 3-4, gap-control, contain the QB in the pocket up front; scheme the coverage to take away Davis and Crabtree on obvious passing downs, and adjust from there; and yes, I would have played more zone.

Capers is Capers though... he's always slow to adjust. The players have complained about it in the past, and in this game he didn't adjust at all. Nothing left to do but throw tomatos at the screen and wonder what in God's name goes thru Capers head as he's watching this shit unfold from up in the booth.

Yes we're undermanned up front, but even with being undermanned to some extent, there's no excuse for getting gashed for 2,000 years and 150 pts. That's on Capers.

Charles Woodson:


“When the game is going the way it is, then you have to try something different,” Woodson said. “It’s hard to just continue to do the same thing over and over again and have it continue to burn you. So that’s what I was talking about, going forward, you have to figure out, could we have done something differently as far as our game plan is concerned?”

[Old School]

I have a question. At the beginning of the game I saw Matthews just whacking away on Staley's arms. Then they showed Staley on the bench in what appeared to be serious pain. I didn't think Staley would finish the 1st quarter. I kept watching for Clay to go back at his arm(s), but it never happened.

What am I missing?

[woodbuck27]

The Woodson/MD Jennings Combo at safety is not working. Burnett is decent but I don’t know if he is a pro bowler. Next season well be his make or break year. Either he will continue to be decent or he make a big leap and become an above average player. Considering how much Woodson is making coupled with his decline in performance I don’t see how they could keep him. MD is a stick trying to be a safety; I have no hope for him to turn into a player. McMillan? Who knows. He seems decent, but so did Bigby. I think drafting a safety should be a high priority.

The CB position is fine. Williams has not played nearly as good as he did in 2010 but he is not horrible. Between Him, Shields, House, and Hayward I don’t see a weakness at CB. If the front 7 is fixed, the secondary talent will show.

ILB – Bishop is a good player, Smith is a good backup. Hawk is a decent player, but not worth the money he is making. Everyone else is bad. Cut Hawk draft a quality player who is hopefully a playmaker next to Bishop.

OLB – Clay is a stud. Perry looks decent at stopping the run, but I don’t think he will ever be decent at trying to cover anyone. I think they need to find yet another OLB and let Perry play more of a hybrid role. Maybe on the ground sometimes (passing downs?) and standing up on first and second down.

DL – Raji is a good player. Worthy/Daniels are hard to judge. Are they players? Its to early to tell. Mike Neal seems decent, but nowhere near as disruptive as Jenkins was. Pickett is getting old, but he is still a decent player. He has one year left on his contract so he eventually needs to be replaced regardless.

Need another defense heavy draft. I hope they keep the Wr’s intact so that they can focus on fixing the defense in the draft. Even if they lose Finley, if they keep Jennings, the offense will still be top 10. Draft defense defense defense.

Nice post and accurate overall analysis of our needs on 'D'.

[woodbuck27]

I think we are saying the same things in a different way...Yeah much of what I say falls on Capers. I think this team was suprised by how fast and strong CK is. I guess really this def got toasted on 3rd down. Plenty of times they had them 3rd and semi long and couldn't get off the field! And yes I agree that is mostly on Capers, but quite a few times the play was there to be made and it just wasn't!

Yes. What an advantage when it's third and long and you can better elect to run the ball.

Over and over and over again our 'D' was simply burned instead of forcing the punt. It was a bad nightmare.

The Defensive Line:

Ryan Pickett looked 'just beat up'. He's getting up there in age.

BJ Raji looked well...'just' confused. Will he maintain a focus? His role isn't glamourous. The puzzeling thing was that he was credited with ZERO tackles.

C.J. Wilson had 2.5 tackles. Mike Daniels had 2 tackles. He's a Rookie and needs time.

The Linebackers:

Brad Jones and AJ Hawk did make 16.5 tackles between them. These LBers get a lot of criticism.

Clay Matthews had a serviceable game and a sack but somehow he seemed confused in terms of what he had to do. Did I see that right? Sometimes he appeared a tad lost in space last night.

Moses did NOT part any sea's.

Our secondary:

Morgan Burnett and MD Jennings made a combined 6.5 tackles. Tyrone Williams played it very close and tough and had 8 tackles. Sam Shields was as usual steady, and chipped in with 4 tackles and 'a pick six'.

Charles Woodson tried hard and had 5.5 tackles. His age and contract are restrictive. We need some of his money to keep Greg Jennings. Still our NO.1 WR.

Casey Hayward? The 'only ' time I saw him was when he was used on a blitz that failed miserably. Wasn't he our most serviceable CB this season? Was he used properly last night? I felt he was inconspicuous. He was credited with zero tackles. He was credited with ZERO !

Defensive Schemes.

The best laid plans of mice and men.

It was just another game that sadly we saw our beloved Packers come up empty on. Change will take place and be accepted naturally as the way it must be.

I like our CB's even though they give up some in size to the huge WR's they must defend against.

Clay Matthews needs more help in terms of a future stars (2) at LBer. We need another BIG BODY in the middle of our DL. We need a very solid player at Safety.

A little added on the offense:

We need a veteren FA OLman (2) if such becomes available. The window of opportunity for Aaron Rodgers is certainly now 'on the clock'. Ted Thompson should lock him up ASAP !

Our WR's are just fine.

The RB position will just be what it is. We witnessed some signs of life and even given that for some reason MM snuffs it. I'm guessing it's just the nature of the beast.

GO PACK GO !

[Smeefers]

I'm not entirely convinced the whole front 7 needs to be completely re-tooled. First and foremost because I think that its a completely unrealistic thing to expect.

I think we had some serious injury problems that finally came back and bit us in the ass. I think how half way decent we played through out the year is enough to keep Dom in at DC. The front 7 is a laundry list on the injury report. It might just be easier to say who wasn't injured this year at all. AJ Hawk. Everyone else in the front seven was injured (or suspended) at least once through the year. It seems like for the last 3 years we've been playing with a slew of 2nd and 3rd stringers. We had a 3rd stringer in at ILB all year. We had 2nd and 3rd stringers in at CB and Safety. Once again we never know who the DE opposite Pickett is going to be. I think we'd be a completely different team if we could just stay healthy for a year. I don't know what kind of samurai voodoo bullshit we have to perform to keep our guys healthy, but that's what we should be researching.

Good luck trying to get guys to keep contain when your best option at LB is Jones and Walden. Capers can't be blamed for bad run stopping. The players earned all of that.

Finally, i still can't believe there's calls for Hawk to be tossed. You want to replace Hawk when he had 120 tackles on the year and was the only guy who didn't get hurt. If you can find someone better, who'd just as reliable, who you can pay less, then by all means go get him. Good fucking luck. The only way you replace him is rolling the dice on a draft pick. You Hawk haters are living in some fairy tale land where players should be perfect and replacing one of your top tacklers (year in and year out) is as easy as pie. Quit dreaming.

[digitaldean]

Here's just one of the instances that it was more on the player's. Heyward blitzed and had CK dead to rights. He missed the tackle and CK runs for big yardage. Dom called right play, guys didn't execute.

Defense executed in first half when it was 14-7, got SF to punt. Then Ross can just hang on to the freaking ball and give SF the ball at our 5. Packers D had momentum and were starting to feel a groove. Even though we were able to retake lead at 21-14, all the MO we had defensively was gone.

Hawk was flat out pitiful. Williams stunk last night. He isn't Estus Hood-horrible, but man alive, his holding, trash-talking ass should have been kicked by someone on the coaching staff. Woodson had some very good passes defensed, but he's not a great deep cover safety.

Raji got owned and given they were playing with 4-1/2 linemen, SF should have had some sacks against them. Staley gutted out his obvious pain and they neutralized Matthews. Until we get a consistent pass rush threat from that D-Line and someone other than Matthews at LB to REALLY standout consistently, we are hosed defensively.

Finally, Coach "pad-level" McCarthy better have his defense come back in the offseason for a tackling camp. He can have a QB camp for the QB's, then have a tackling camp for the defense. We are Darren Sharper-esque in our tackling ability. Woodson and Matthews are the surest tacklers on that D. Otherwise, we suck canal water or are below average at best.

[woodbuck27]

I'm not entirely convinced the whole front 7 needs to be completely re-tooled. First and foremost because I think that its a completely unrealistic thing to expect.

I think we had some serious injury problems that finally came back and bit us in the ass. I think how half way decent we played through out the year is enough to keep Dom in at DC. The front 7 is a laundry list on the injury report. It might just be easier to say who wasn't injured this year at all. AJ Hawk. Everyone else in the front seven was injured (or suspended) at least once through the year. It seems like for the last 3 years we've been playing with a slew of 2nd and 3rd stringers. We had a 3rd stringer in at ILB all year. We had 2nd and 3rd stringers in at CB and Safety. Once again we never know who the DE opposite Pickett is going to be. I think we'd be a completely different team if we could just stay healthy for a year. I don't know what kind of samurai voodoo bullshit we have to perform to keep our guys healthy, but that's what we should be researching.

Good luck trying to get guys to keep contain when your best option at LB is Jones and Walden. Capers can't be blamed for bad run stopping. The players earned all of that.

Finally, i still can't believe there's calls for Hawk to be tossed. You want to replace Hawk when he had 120 tackles on the year and was the only guy who didn't get hurt. If you can find someone better, who'd just as reliable, who you can pay less, then by all means go get him. Good fucking luck. The only way you replace him is rolling the dice on a draft pick. You Hawk haters are living in some fairy tale land where players should be perfect and replacing one of your top tacklers (year in and year out) is as easy as pie. Quit dreaming.

Do you own an AJ Hawk jersey?

[gbgary]

ok...you simply can't get rid of all these players you guys want to get rid of. there aren't enough draft picks, tt doesn't play in the fa market (much), and we need o-line and wr help before we start drafting defensive guys. we're going to have to develop the guys we got last year and hope they don't get injured. the d was much better than last year even with the injuries we had. last nights problem, to me, was scheme. it should have been all about stopping the run and containing kaep. it wasn't and they didn't. capers should have watched some college tape on how to deal with that shit. they've been doing there a lot longer than it's been done in the nfl. the o had it's issues too but that's for another thread.

[red]

http://watercoolersportsnetwork.com/2012/05/11/the-long-term-effect-of-dom-capers-on-a-defense/

[red]

i think we need to dip our toes back into the free agency market and try and find some decent vet role players. we've wasted a lot of draft picks on guys that just aren't getting it done.

i'm not talking about top tier 50 million guaranteed guys. and talking about 2 or 3 guys, who might be on the wrong side of 30 that can step in and just be average and do their fucking job.

i swear i'll scream if i see that dumb fuck walden on our roster next season

[PackerBlues]

(copied and pasted from a thread that i had started, my apologies, i should have just posted to this thread)



Ted Thompson became the General Manager in GB in 2005, the same year that he drafted Aaron Rodgers. (interesting fact: Upon Donald Driver's departure from GB, Aaron Rodgers will become the longest tenured player on the roster.)

Dom Capers joined the Packers in 2009. Hired by Ted Thompson as the Defensive coordinator, Capers replaced the 4-3 defense that the packers had used since 1992, with the 3-4 defense.


According to stats that I got from Pro-Football-Reference.com.....
( http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2012/opp.htm )

In 2009 the Packers Defense was ranked 7'th overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 1'st in rushing defense.

In 2010, the Packers Defense was ranked 2'nd overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 18'th in rushing defense. (how the hell does that make sense?)

In 2011, the Packers Defense was ranked 19'th overall, 32'nd in passing defense, and 14'th in rushing defense.

In 2012, the Packers Defense was ranked 11'th overall, 11'th in passing defense, and 17'th in rushing defense.

Only 5 Defensive players currently on the roster, have been in GB longer than Dom Capers.

All of them joined the team in 2006: first round pick, LB, A.J. Hawk.... CB Jarrett Bush, picked up off waivers from Carolina.... DE/NT Ryan Pickett, an unrestricted free agent from St. Louis.... CB Tramon Williams, an undrafted free agent.... and, DB Charles Woodson, unrestricted free agent from Oakland.

All other Defensive players on the current roster came in 2009 with Capers, or later.

2009: NT B.J. Raji, 1'st round pick.... LB Clay Matthews, 1st round pick.... LB Brad Jones, 7'th round pick.... LB Robert Francois, undrafted free agent.

2010: DE Mike Neal, 2nd round pick.... S Morgan Burnett, 3rd round pick.... DE C.J. Wilson, 7th round pick.... CB Sam Shields, undrafted free agent.... LB Erik Walden, undrafted free agent.... LB Frank Zombo, undrafted free agent.

2011: CB Davon House, 4th round pick.... S M.D. Jennings, undrafted free agent.... LB Jamari Lattimore, undrafted free agent.

2012: DE Jerel Worthy, 2nd round pick.... CB Casey Hayward, 2nd round pick.... DT Mike Daniels, 4th round pick.... S Jerron McMillian, 4th round pick.... LB Terrell Manning, 5th round pick.... DT Jordan Miller, undrafted free agent, LB Dezman Moses, undrafted free agent.


Prior to looking at all of the above mentioned, I was ready to see Dom Capers pack his bags. Now, I am not so sure that it would be fair to Dom Capers at all.

The GB defense is composed of:

1st round picks, 3: Hawk, Raji, and Mathews
2nd round picks, 3: Neal, Worthy, Hayward
3rd round picks, 1: Burnett
4th round picks, 3: House, Danials, McMillian
5th round picks, 1: Manning
6th round picks, 0
7th round picks, 2: Jones, Wilson
Off Waivers, 1: Bush
Unrestricted free agents, 2: Pickett, Woodson
Undrafted free agents, 9: Williams, Francois, Shields, Walden, Zombo, Jennings, Lattimore, Miller, Moses

Looking at all of this, its kind of hard to put all the blame on Capers. How many years do you need to implement a Defense? How long does a player need to be in the system before he becomes.....a veteran in that system? Simply put, the Defensive players on the current roster probably need a little more time in the system.

[woodbuck27]

" In 2009 the Packers Defense was ranked 7'th overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 1'st in rushing defense." PackerBlues


************************************************** *******************************************


" In 2010, the Packers Defense was ranked 2'nd overall, 5'th in passing defense, and 18'th in rushing defense. (how the hell does that make sense?)

In 2011, the Packers Defense was ranked 19'th overall, 32'nd in passing defense, and 14'th in rushing defense.

In 2012, the Packers Defense was ranked 11'th overall, 11'th in passing defense, and 17'th in rushing defense. " PackerBlues

What beat us Vs 49ers? The pass or the run?

Of course it was again ...the run ! That's what we must overcome.

PACKERS !

[PackerBlues]

I agree with you Woodbuck27, and i found the article that Red linked to above very interesting as well. It shows that Defenses have improved when Capers takes over......but that they also go sour after a couple of years.

i pulled this quote from that article:

"Ultimately, the gradual failure of defenses under Dom Capers seems more to be due to a lack of quality personnel than anything else."

I tend to agree with this. I am not bashing Ted Thompson, but at the same time, he has to take some of the blame. With all of the new players added to the defense in the last couple of years, I really don't see how anyone could expect to see anything resembling consistancy. Its not as if any of the newer guys have ever played in a system like Capers before.......at least i wouldnt think so. The majority of them are undrafted free agents and late round picks.

[woodbuck27]

I agree with you Woodbuck27, and i found the article that Red linked to above very interesting as well. It shows that Defenses have improved when Capers takes over......but that they also go sour after a couple of years.

i pulled this quote from that article:

"Ultimately, the gradual failure of defenses under Dom Capers seems more to be due to a lack of quality personnel than anything else."

I tend to agree with this. I am not bashing Ted Thompson, but at the same time, he has to take some of the blame. With all of the new players added to the defense in the last couple of years, I really don't see how anyone could expect to see anything resembling consistancy. Its not as if any of the newer guys have ever played in a system like Capers before.......at least i wouldnt think so. The majority of them are undrafted free agents and late round picks.

Your points seem valid to me. The main ingredient I feel any great 'D' needs is talent and a strong ability to make plays. These players must know and believe in their roles.

Your not likely as a GM to discover this exceptional talent in your house with UFA's and late round picks. It's a crap shoot to acquire the same in the draft. TT came to us in 2005 with a conservative approach to using FAcy and was recognized for his drafting skills. The Packers enjoyed a Super Bowl win in Ted Thompson's sixth season as the Packer GM. Somehow we defied all odds in 2010-11 and managed that Super Bowl victory.

Immediately we began to read prophesies of a Green Bay Packer dynasty. Aaron Rodgers would this and that! Aaron Rodgers 'only' gives us one ingredient of some real chance. How long is the window of opportunity open with Aaron Rodgers?


You see it.... then.... you believe it !

Some Packer fans were shocked that we went one and out in the playoffs last year, following the regular season record we enjoyed. It's the BIG GAME ! Winning that game.

Last night was another BIG GAME!

Winning the Big Game, takes big time players working within a big time system with all onboard. Something was obviously missing again. We have to have faith that Ted Thompson will do all in his power to right the ship. Make the correct 'right' decisions.

Go PACK GO !

[Freak Out]

So is this the "who stays and who goes" thread? If so I have to ask is Walden still on the team this evening? He played some of the worst disciplined defense I have ever seen....and he has done it consistently.

[Joemailman]

So is this the "who stays and who goes" thread? If so I have to ask is Walden still on the team this evening? He played some of the worst disciplined defense I have ever seen....and he has done it consistently.

Right now they have 4 OLB's. Matthews, Moses, Zombo and Walden. Perry will be back, which would knock out Zombo or Walden. If they draft someone in the early or middle rounds, or find a UFA they like, Zombo or Walden could both be gone.

[rbaloha1]

I'm not entirely convinced the whole front 7 needs to be completely re-tooled. First and foremost because I think that its a completely unrealistic thing to expect.

I think we had some serious injury problems that finally came back and bit us in the ass. I think how half way decent we played through out the year is enough to keep Dom in at DC. The front 7 is a laundry list on the injury report. It might just be easier to say who wasn't injured this year at all. AJ Hawk. Everyone else in the front seven was injured (or suspended) at least once through the year. It seems like for the last 3 years we've been playing with a slew of 2nd and 3rd stringers. We had a 3rd stringer in at ILB all year. We had 2nd and 3rd stringers in at CB and Safety. Once again we never know who the DE opposite Pickett is going to be. I think we'd be a completely different team if we could just stay healthy for a year. I don't know what kind of samurai voodoo bullshit we have to perform to keep our guys healthy, but that's what we should be researching.

Good luck trying to get guys to keep contain when your best option at LB is Jones and Walden. Capers can't be blamed for bad run stopping. The players earned all of that.

Finally, i still can't believe there's calls for Hawk to be tossed. You want to replace Hawk when he had 120 tackles on the year and was the only guy who didn't get hurt. If you can find someone better, who'd just as reliable, who you can pay less, then by all means go get him. Good fucking luck. The only way you replace him is rolling the dice on a draft pick. You Hawk haters are living in some fairy tale land where players should be perfect and replacing one of your top tacklers (year in and year out) is as easy as pie. Quit dreaming.

Draft Manti Teo to replace Hawk.

Hawk had a better year but is not close to an elite player.

[rbaloha1]

1. Fire Capers. DC is only good when the opposing offense plays their tendencies. When the opposing team throws in wrinkles, DC is unable to adjust. How can the Packers be unprepared for the spread option?

2. Draft Manti Teo to be paired with Bishop. Get rid of Hawk and Walden. Put Jones back at olb.

3. Get back Johnny Jolly

4. Nick Perry brings some physicality to the defense.

5. Tramon is not the seme since signing the big contract. Replace TW with Davon House.

6. Find a DC with a history of defending the spread option successfully. Sorry guys this is not the wildcat.

[Joemailman]

Pretty unlikely Teo will be around when the Packers pick. Probably a top-15 pick.

[rbaloha1]

Pretty unlikely Teo will be around when the Packers pick. Probably a top-15 pick.

Not after the Bama fiasco.

TT moves up continually -- worth moving up if Teo starts to slip.

[red]

Pretty unlikely Teo will be around when the Packers pick. Probably a top-15 pick.

maybe, maybe not

he played like shit in the national championship game, against a lot of pro level talent playing a pro style offense.

his draft stock might have taken a massive hit

however i still don't think he falls all the way to us

[Joemailman]

The Alabama game won't hurt Teo. Notre Dame's DL was dominated by Alabama's OL. Makes it a lot harder for the LB's to make plays.

[rbaloha1]

maybe, maybe not

he played like shit in the national championship game, against a lot of pro level talent playing a pro style offense.

his draft stock might have taken a massive hit

however i still don't think he falls all the way to us

Its called moving up the way TT got Matthews, Nelson, Worthy, etc.

Teo is what the Packers need.

[Joemailman]

Its called moving up the way TT got Matthews, Nelson, Worthy, etc.

Teo is what the Packers need.

He moved up to get Matthews and Worthy, but got Nelson by moving down. TT has never traded his 1st round pick plus another pick to move up in the 1st round. He seems content to see who slides to him in the 1st. If the right player slid he might trade up, but I suspect he'll want to get a lot of picks this year after trading away picks to move up last year.

[rbaloha1]

The Alabama game won't hurt Teo. Notre Dame's DL was dominated by Alabama's OL. Makes it a lot harder for the LB's to make plays.

How many missed tackles did Teo have? In the first half alone, Teo had more missed tackles than he did the entire season.

A dominated d line forces lbs to make more tackles.

[rbaloha1]

He moved up to get Matthews and Worthy, but got Nelson by moving down. TT has never traded his 1st round pick plus another pick to move up in the 1st round. He seems content to see who slides to him in the 1st. If the right player slid he might trade up, but I suspect he'll want to get a lot of picks this year after trading away picks to move up last year.

What I am saying is if a Matthews type situation presents itself TT should make every effort to acquire Teo.

We are not even having this discussion if Teo had a monster game as Teo would have been a top 5 pick. Now Teo is possibly in play.

[Joemailman]

I think you're overestimating how much one sub-par game against a superior opponent will hurt Teo. If he performs well at the Combine, I expect his overall body of work will make him a high pick. But we'll see.

[rbaloha1]

I think you're overestimating how much one sub-par game against a superior opponent will hurt Teo. If he performs well at the Combine, I expect his overall body of work will make him a high pick. But we'll see.

Check-out what so called draft experts are saying about Teo after a poor game.

[call_me_ishmael]

Teo reminds me a lot of Hawk to be honest. He's a great college player who faced weak competition in the ACC. I think I'd rather stick to SEC front 7 players when possible. They just seem to have a lot more recent success in the NFL in my opinion.

[ThunderDan]

How many missed tackles did Teo have? In the first half alone, Teo had more missed tackles than he did the entire season.

A dominated d line forces lbs to make more tackles.

So after missing so many tackles that is what the Packers need????

I don't get it.

[pbmax]

IWe're still woefully underpowered in our front seven. TT made some progress with drafting Worthy, Perry, and Daniels, but of course Capers misused them. TT needs to bring in a couple more strong, run stuffing, 2 gap defensive linemen, and completely rebuild the linebacking corp.

I agree with the diagnosis but not the cure. There is nothing in Capers scheme that is soft or finesse, but Thompson drafted pass rushing 4-3 lineman plus a true tweener OLB/DE to plug the gaps from 2011. Capers has run a 4-3 and 3-4 hybrid, but only at the behest of Tom Coughlin and mostly due to personnel.

Capers, McCarthy and Thompson made a potentially big miscalculation in the last draft. The depth on this team in the front seven is not suited to the primary defensive alignment. It addressed pass rushing interior lineman but nothing in base.

Its a mismatch and since it involves depth, probably could be overcome if the LBs were better. But they aren't.

[pbmax]

And by the way, anyone who argues against the bye week next year should simply be reminded of this game. The 49ers put both weeks to good use.

[Joemailman]

So after missing so many tackles that is what the Packers need????

I don't get it.

He'll fit right in. :lol:

[wist43]

I agree with the diagnosis but not the cure. There is nothing in Capers scheme that is soft or finesse, but Thompson drafted pass rushing 4-3 lineman plus a true tweener OLB/DE to plug the gaps from 2011. Capers has run a 4-3 and 3-4 hybrid, but only at the behest of Tom Coughlin and mostly due to personnel.

Capers, McCarthy and Thompson made a potentially big miscalculation in the last draft. The depth on this team in the front seven is not suited to the primary defensive alignment. It addressed pass rushing interior lineman but nothing in base.

Its a mismatch and since it involves depth, probably could be overcome if the LBs were better. But they aren't.

I agree Max. After last years draft most of us looked at the players TT picked and started x'ing and o'ing as to how they could fit a more traditional 3-4; of course they don't fit a traditional 3-4, Capers didn't use them to maximum effectiveness, and we had problems most of the year.

I like the players TT picked, but most of them are better suited as role players in a 4-3. Even though I am a strong advocate of the 3-4, given the players TT handed him, I would have hoped Capers would have been more creative in how he used them; showed more 4-3 looks on passing downs; and used more of a traditional 3-4 base on run downs.

Capers misused the front seven all year IMO. If TT brings in a couple more fat guys, and improves the talent at LB, maybe he can make his scheme work better? But I have no faith in Capers, and never will.

One thing is for sure, missed tackles and bad angles by the players aside, there's no excuse for the mess Capers threw out on the field on Saturday. You could just tell how much Charles Woodson wanted to speak his mind and come right out and call Capers an idiot when he disgustedly said they made changes at all throughout the game. There's no excuse for that.

[Iron Mike]

Capers, McCarthy and Thompson made a potentially big miscalculation in the last draft. The depth on this team in the front seven is not suited to the primary defensive alignment. It addressed pass rushing interior lineman but nothing in base.


Also, with the result of almost no interior pass rush. :(

[rbaloha1]

Teo reminds me a lot of Hawk to be honest. He's a great college player who faced weak competition in the ACC. I think I'd rather stick to SEC front 7 players when possible. They just seem to have a lot more recent success in the NFL in my opinion.

Man, I hope you are wrong.

Entering his senior season, Teo's weakness was pass coverage -- 0 career interceptions.

Teo dropped weight and learned to turn his hips faster and the result was a heisman type year. The difference with Hawk is Teo takes on blockers while Hawk is run around guy. Plus Teo is a leader and respected -- Hawk is not.

[rbaloha1]

So after missing so many tackles that is what the Packers need????

I don't get it.

Entering the game espn analyst Trevor Matrich mentioned how bama was going to confuse Teo by making him hesitate for a split second. Teo was a little hesitant in the first half which resulted in missed tackles and failure to get off blocks.

ND and Teo never faced this type of speed and power -- yes, very nfl-like.

Teo is tebow with game. A hard worker who will get it done with reps, better coaching and film study.

Teo or a similar style ilb is what the Packers need to become a more physical defense.

[Deputy Nutz]

The packers couldn't stop the veer read. Simple. Once the veer read was successful the defense was confused and played on they're heals the entire game. I blame Walden specifically. He is a situational player and when he is asked to play every down he is unserviceable. Plus Jones is a special teams player lined up on the same side as Walden. When Peterson gashed the packers he did so running to the right, over Walden. I am all for bashing Thompson when I can but he did the right thing in drafting Perry. Perry was a force at the point of attack and holding the edge, he got hurt and because Walden was having a decent season as a rotational guy everyone thought the Packers wouldn't miss a beat. Wrong

The packers seemed to control the run much better in the beginning of the year, but the front wore down, which hampered the play of the linebackers as well. When Pickett, Wilson, and Raji were fresh linemen couldn't get to Hawk, Smith, and Jones. Those three got injured and wore down at the end of the year. Raji is a pre-madonna, he want to make the big play so he stands up or charges too far into the backfield leaving gaps when he doesn't make the play. I honestly don't think the packers can afford to resign him, but they have no one on the roster to replace him with. Hawk is serviceable but at a certain point you can't pay him to be just serviceable. He can't get off blocks fast enough and his feet are slow.

This defense is set with a young secondary, I thin the Packer can still use Woodson, because md Jennings is small and lacks instincts. Burnett is good not great. The Packers are going to be really good at cornerback if House can stay on the field, Shields keeps improving , and Heyward improves his athleticism over the off season.

Capers is a fine coordinator. Packer fans are more emotional after a loss than a 7 month prego woman. They must blame, worse than even Cowboy fan. This wasn't a Super Bowl quality team, to many gaps on the offensive line, a passive running game, and a qb and receiver unit that didn't have the chemistry they had in past years. Nobody is blaming the offensive for this loss, which is a mistake. The Packers offense couldn't move the football and help out their defense. The defense was worn out by the start of the fourth quarter. Their last touchdown was a gimme, and never should have happened even in garbage time. The Packers offense only managed to score 17 meaningful points. To me they failed just as bad as the defense.

[rbaloha1]

The packers couldn't stop the veer read. Simple. Once the veer read was successful the defense was confused and played on they're heals the entire game. I blame Walden specifically. He is a situational player and when he is asked to play every down he is unserviceable. Plus Jones is a special teams player lined up on the same side as Walden. When Peterson gashed the packers he did so running to the right, over Walden. I am all for bashing Thompson when I can but he did the right thing in drafting Perry. Perry was a force at the point of attack and holding the edge, he got hurt and because Walden was having a decent season as a rotational guy everyone thought the Packers wouldn't miss a beat. Wrong

The packers seemed to control the run much better in the beginning of the year, but the front wore down, which hampered the play of the linebackers as well. When Pickett, Wilson, and Rajiv were fresh linemen couldn't get to Hawk, Smith, and Jones. Those three got injured and wore down at the end of the year. Rajiv is a pre-madonna, he want to make the big play so he stands up or charges too far into the backfield leaving gaps when he doesn't make the play. I honestly don't thin the packers can afford to resign him, but they have no one on the roster to replace him with. Hawk is serviceable but at a certain point you can't pay him to be just serviceable. He can't get off blocks fast enough and his feet are slow.

This defense is set with a young secondary, I thin the Packer can still use Woodson, because md Jennings is small and lacks instincts. Burnett is good not great. The Packers are going to be really good at cornerback if House can stay on the field, Shields keeps improving , and Heyward improves his athleticism over the off season.

Capers is a fine coordinator. Packer fans are more emotional after a loss than a 7 month prego woman. They must blame, worse than even Cowboy fan. This wasn't a Super Bowl quality team, to many gaps on the offensive line, a passive running game, and a qb and receiver unit that didn't have the chemistry they had in past years. Nobody is blaming the offensive for this loss, which is a mistake. The Packers offense couldn't move the football and help out their defense. The defense was worn out by the start of the fourth quarter. Their last touchdown was a gimme, and never should have happened even in garbage time. The Packers offense only managed to score 17 meaningful points. To me they failed just as bad as the defense.

What is the answer then? Status quo?

[rbaloha1]

“We just need a better mindset as a defense,” Bishop said. “You see it in a few people, but you need an entire team in order to be successful. I think that’s what we need to change the most.”

A Ravens type mindset is what is needed. Is Hawk part of the "few people?"

[Deputy Nutz]

Teo=Hawk. He got absolutely destroyed at the point of attack against Alabama. It was a very telling game for him. His defensive linemen couldn't protect him and he got hammered. Teo played in front of a mammoth defensive line and they allowed him to make plays all season long. If I was a GM, I would take him in the second round, maybe late first, but he isn't a top ten pick.

[Deputy Nutz]

“We just need a better mindset as a defense,” Bishop said. “You see it in a few people, but you need an entire team in order to be successful. I think that’s what we need to change the most.”

A Ravens type mindset is what is needed. Is Hawk part of the "few people?"

I thin Hawk's issues are more physical than mental. Maybe connecting the physical to the mental, I think he does everything he can, but he isn't Ray Lewis.

[Deputy Nutz]

What is the answer then? Status quo?

The Packers lost in the second round of the playoffs to a better team. Get over it. You don't need to sink the ship because there are a few mice on board. Next year they might have better luck on the injury front, Rodgers and his receivers regain their chemistry, along with the defense getting back Bishop, Perry, and Worthy. Also figuring out how to stop the veer.

[rbaloha1]

Teo=Hawk. He got absolutely destroyed at the point of attack against Alabama. It was a very telling game for him. His defensive linemen couldn't protect him and he got hammered. Teo played in front of a mammoth defensive line and they allowed him to make plays all season long. If I was a GM, I would take him in the second round, maybe late first, but he isn't a top ten pick.


Perfect for the Packers. Teo is not another Hawk.

[Smeefers]

Do you own an AJ Hawk jersey?

No, but I do like him as a player. I think he's pretty darn solid and that's more than I can say for a lot of guys on our team.

[Smeefers]

Draft Manti Teo to replace Hawk.

Hawk had a better year but is not close to an elite player.

Here we go in the land of dreams again. Teo is going to be a high first round draft pick. If he falls to us, sure, grab him and see how he does. I suggest this action with any top 1-10 talent.

As for Hawk being an elite player, I don't think he is one. He's a solid above average player and he gets paid like a solid above average player.

[rbaloha1]

The Packers lost in the second round of the playoffs to a better team. Get over it. You don't need to sink the ship because there are a few mice on board. Next year they might have better luck on the injury front, Rodgers and his receivers regain their chemistry, along with the defense getting back Bishop, Perry, and Worthy. Also figuring out how to stop the veer.

Blah Blah Blah!

Is your answer to keep everything the same and hope for this and hope for that?

[rbaloha1]

Here we go in the land of dreams again. Teo is going to be a high first round draft pick. If he falls to us, sure, grab him and see how he does. I suggest this action with any top 1-10 talent.

As for Hawk being an elite player, I don't think he is one. He's a solid above average player and he gets paid like a solid above average player.

Was A-ROD dropping a dream? My only point is to acquire Teo if there is a legit opportunity.

[denverYooper]

And by the way, anyone who argues against the bye week next year should simply be reminded of this game. The 49ers put both weeks to good use.

Or the idea that the Packers are better away from home.

[3irty1]

I agree that some more guys like Bishop who can set a nasty tone on defense could give the defense the edge it needs. I don't think Teo is necessarily that guy.

[denverYooper]

The Packers lost in the second round of the playoffs to a better team. Get over it. You don't need to sink the ship because there are a few mice on board. Next year they might have better luck on the injury front, Rodgers and his receivers regain their chemistry, along with the defense getting back Bishop, Perry, and Worthy. Also figuring out how to stop the veer.

:clap:

[rbaloha1]

I agree that some more guys like Bishop who can set a nasty tone on defense could give the defense the edge it needs. I don't think Teo is necessarily that guy.

Teo is harder to evaluate after a poor performance against bama.

Skip Bayless labels Teo the next Ray Lewis -- NO! Is Teo another Seau -- NO

IMO Teo is a pro bowl type player that brings an incredible work ethic and leadership. Russell Wilson type leader. Firery in a way that elevates team's level of play.

[Deputy Nutz]

Blah Blah Blah!

Is your answer to keep everything the same and hope for this and hope for that?

I don't care one way or another, my point is winning a Super Bowl is very challenging in this era or any era. The Packers are an above average franchise, and they have been that way for 20 years with two Super Bowl victories during that time. Since 1992 they have missed the playoffs 6 times. every off-season the work put in by the coaching staff and front office is to get better and to improve the team for the next season. Packer fans are no longer happy just getting to the playoffs, or winning a playoff game, they are Super Bowl or bust, fans similar to Cowboy fans.

The Packers are in good hands with McCarthy and Thompson, they are going to keep them competitive as long as they are both in GB. As a fan I think that is all you can ask for, once the season starts it is a crap shoot in making it to the Super Bowl or winning the Super Bowl. To many variables with injuries, player performance, and schedule.

[rbaloha1]

I don't care one way or another, my point is winning a Super Bowl is very challenging in this era or any era. The Packers are an above average franchise, and they have been that way for 20 years with two Super Bowl victories during that time. Since 1992 they have missed the playoffs 6 times. every off-season the work put in by the coaching staff and front office is to get better and to improve the team for the next season. Packer fans are no longer happy just getting to the playoffs, or winning a playoff game, they are Super Bowl or bust, fans similar to Cowboy fans.

The Packers are in good hands with McCarthy and Thompson, they are going to keep them competitive as long as they are both in GB. As a fan I think that is all you can ask for, once the season starts it is a crap shoot in making it to the Super Bowl or winning the Super Bowl. To many variables with injuries, player performance, and schedule.

Thank goodness you are not involved with Packer's operations.

[Patler]

I thin Nutz hit the nail squarely on the head. All that the GM and HC can do is assess the weaknesses of last year and try to improve while attempting to minimize the development of other weaknesses.

There are so many variables, players performances change, players get old, injuries happen, opponents change in who they are and how they play from year to year and even in the same year. As they say, its not so much which teams you play, but when you play them.

The primary goal is get to the playoffs, then hope that things are in order and fall your way to make a run at it. TT and MM should keep the Packers in contention.

[sharpe1027]

The way I see it, there are three major issues with the personnel on defense. Two of them are due to injury.

Problem #1, Jones is not a starting caliber inside linebacker. He gets washed away, pancake blocked and overruns the play enough to make Hawk look outstanding. Of course, he's a OLBer moved inside because we lost our starter and backup and the same position.
Problem #2, Walden is not a starting caliber outside linebacker.
Problem #3, Jennings and Woodson are not starting caliber safeties. Jennings is Peprah 2.0. Woodson does not have the range to play safety and plays best acting as a small linebacker.

My take on a few other discussion points is that

1) Hawk is a good player. Maybe he is not worth his entire salary and did not justify his draft position. However, it's about time that people forget where he was drafted and just go by his play in the field. He's not the problem on the defense. If they had a better player available, fine, but keep him until then.

2) The D-line is OK, and has several young guys that should improve. It is not dominating by any means, but would be more than adequate with the LBers shored up.

3) Now that Shields is playing with some passion again, the DBs are the strongest position in depth and quality.

Just my arm chair GM opinions.

[sharpe1027]

As a fan I think that is all you can ask for, once the season starts it is a crap shoot in making it to the Super Bowl or winning the Super Bowl. To many variables with injuries, player performance, and schedule.

Yes.

[rbaloha1]

Or the idea that the Packers are better away from home.

And Domes.

[rbaloha1]

I thin Nutz hit the nail squarely on the head. All that the GM and HC can do is assess the weaknesses of last year and try to improve while attempting to minimize the development of other weaknesses.

There are so many variables, players performances change, players get old, injuries happen, opponents change in who they are and how they play from year to year and even in the same year. As they say, its not so much which teams you play, but when you play them.

The primary goal is get to the playoffs, then hope that things are in order and fall your way to make a run at it. TT and MM should keep the Packers in contention.

This is true after one year.

But after being physically dominated 2 years in a row requires major changes to the defense -- something is not right and to continue to rationalize does absolutely no good.

[rbaloha1]

Yes.

This only applies to fantasy football.

[Deputy Nutz]

Did you even recognize the how awesome the offensive line is for the 49ers? Or recognize that when you have to play shitty players like Walden and Jones you are bound to get shitty results?

Did you recognize that this defense got it together and physically dominated the Vikings running game last week? They were sure physical against Peterson and held him under 100.

They weren't in position to stop the veer read. Coaching probably, player breakdown, absolutely. They didn't run the veer at Mathews, they took to the weak part of the defense, capes should have bounced Mathews around, and several times on 3rd and less than 5 Capers screwed up and kept bringing his dime defense in.

[rbaloha1]

Did you even recognize the how awesome the offensive line is for the 49ers? Or recognize that when you have to play shitty players like Walden and Jones you are bound to get shitty results?

Did you recognize that this defense got it together and physically dominated the Vikings running game last week? They were sure physical against Peterson and held him under 100.

They weren't in position to stop the veer read. Coaching probably, player breakdown, absolutely. They didn't run the veer at Mathews, they took to the weak part of the defense, capes should have bounced Mathews around, and several times on 3rd and less than 5 Capers screwed up and kept bringing his dime defense in.

Thanks for restating the obvious.

This only reinforces the major changes required on defense.

Over anlayzing and venting does nothing except reinforce the status quo.

[Deputy Nutz]

Thank goodness you are not involved with Packer's operations.

You're rational

[Patler]

This is true after one year.

But after being physically dominated 2 years in a row requires major changes to the defense -- something is not right and to continue to rationalize does absolutely no good.

So we should emotionalize it instead?

They committed to significant change last year; but then

- one of the pieces they already had in Bishop was lost;
- the planned upgrade from Perry never happened when he played little;
- the moves to improve the DB's never gained traction because of House, Shields and Woodson's injuries.

The key is determining which of last year's fixes will take and what new ones have to be made (Will Bishop be back? Is Woodson done? Etc.). It has to be rationalized.

[rbaloha1]

So we should emotionalize it instead?

They committed to significant change last year; but then

- one of the pieces they already had in Bishop was lost;
- the planned upgrade from Perry never happened when he played little;
- the moves to improve the DB's never gained traction because of House, Shields and Woodson's injuries.

The key is determining which of last year's fixes will take and what new ones have to be made (Will Bishop be back? Is Woodson done? Etc.). It has to be rationalized.

Keep over analyzing with your cronies and see where it takes us.

MM and TT need to take bolder action on defense. The defense appeared improved from last season but guess it was a mirage.

[sharpe1027]

This only applies to fantasy football.

If you say so then it must be true.

[sharpe1027]

Keep over analyzing with your cronies and see where it takes us.

MM and TT need to take bolder action on defense. The defense appeared improved from last season but guess it was a mirage.

I guess it is fair to compare last season to a singe game. Any additional discussion is over analyzing. Nobody is saying the defense shouldn't be improved. You could acknowledge other people's views and carry on a discussion or you can dismiss them out of hand with one liners about "over analyzing" and "cronies." I think it is obvious which course of action is most productive.

[woodbuck27]

So is this the "who stays and who goes" thread? If so I have to ask is Walden still on the team this evening? He played some of the worst disciplined defense I have ever seen....and he has done it consistently.

I hope we can make this an important thread. To use this thread to try and respond to 'the facts'.

I just read this in my E-mail. I imagine many here have read it but I'll post it regardless:

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-1/Packers-defense-struggles-to-explain-loss-to-49ers/bcab31af-f2c4-4c21-801b-33b4115377ba?campaign=email_post_divisional

" When the game became a shootout, the Packers offense couldn’t keep up. After scoring a TD late in the first half and showing the offense might be finding a rhythm, the Packers managed just one field goal on their first four possessions of the second half.

“There’s no coulda, shoulda, wouldas,” receiver Greg Jennings said. “We lost to a better team.”

The 49ers ended up with a monstrous time of possession advantage, 38:01 to 21:59.

“When the opposing team’s offense is on the field as much as they were tonight, it’s tough to build a rhythm for us,” guard T.J. Lang said. “We didn’t help our defense out much. When they were on the field for long drives, we stalled out way too many times.”

And so, another season has stalled out in mid-January. Two straight years as NFC North champs, but once again one game short of playing for the NFC Championship.

“It’s tough,” Raji said. “It never gets easy losing, especially when you’re a Green Bay Packer. A lot is expected of you. Ending the season like this for the second season in a row is definitely painful.” ... "

This is the reality that Packer GM Ted Thompson must deal with.

Someone posted that the window of opportunity or job security window is five seasons after winning a Super Bowl. If we go another three seasons 'without' another Super Bowl win. Ted Thompson's resume wil read:

'One Super Bowl win' in eleven (11) seasons as the GM of the Green Bay Packers; with arguably the best QB in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers.

NFL Access is coming up with a Specil Report (this afternoon) on upcoming changes in Green Bay. Will that report bode well for Tom Capers? Is Tom Capers the real problem?

I vote that we use this thread to follow 'the REAL problem to a REAL solotion'. Seeing the Green Bay Packers win their next Super Bowl within the next three seasons. Getting that done on or before 2015-16

Posters have raised a legitimate explanation for our failure this season. Too much adversity related to injury. Somehow we managed to work through that problem or adversity in 2010-11. Was that a fluke? I believe that team was somehow inspired by winning and momentum. That team had the 'special players' needed to see the job through. The team that went to San Francisco was flat out outclassed. The Green Bay Packer were beaten by a better team. That fact was blatantly obvious.

The San Francisco 49ers 'stung us'. Recall the looks on the Packers players faces throughout that game. See Aaron Rodgers, Charles Woodson, BJ Raji, Ryan Pickett and Greg Jennings. How will you ever forget the look on Donald Driver's face. Going out losing so badly. How did it get that bad!?

Back to the future:

We are aware of the decline in our 'D' with the absence of Desmond Bishop and the loss of Nick Collins. We saw a heavy 'D' oriented draft last off season. These players need time to reach full potential. It's a whole lot of this and that but we can use this thread to aim for possible solutions.

All that matters is winning the Super Bowl. A walk in the park is lovely but going for a treat along the way .....very special.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

Draft Manti Teo to replace Hawk.

Hawk had a better year but is not close to an elite player.

If you need proof of that. He was a 'First Team Rookie' after being picked 5th overall in the 2006 draft. Check his resume for number of Pro Bowl appearances in his seven season career. He got there 'once', in 2010.

He's not blowing anybody up. How often do we use the word 'outstanding', to describe one of his games? AJ Hawk is serviceable. That's what keeps him in 'the Green and Gold'.

AJ Hawk's Career NFL statistics through this regular season (2012).

Tackles 714 (an average of 102 /season); Quarterback sacks 13.5 or < 2 /season; Interceptions 8. He doesn't shine in pass coverage.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

http://watercoolersportsnetwork.com/2012/05/11/the-long-term-effect-of-dom-capers-on-a-defense/

I can then conclude after reading that.

That if Dom Capers is released today or in the near future that he was used as a scapegoat. Our defensive issues cannot all be blamed on Dom Capers.

We need more talented players on the defensive side of our roster. Give Dom Capers something to work with and our young defensive players time to develop.

Give Dom Capers 'a vote of confidence' and retain him. In any case:

If Ted Thompson releases Dom Capers does he have a better replacement?

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

i think we need to dip our toes back into the free agency market and try and find some decent vet role players. we've wasted a lot of draft picks on guys that just aren't getting it done.

i'm not talking about top tier 50 million guaranteed guys. and talking about 2 or 3 guys, who might be on the wrong side of 30 that can step in and just be average and do their fucking job.

i swear i'll scream if i see that dumb fuck walden on our roster next season

Red ?

Is Dom Capers the reason our defense stunk Vs the 49ers?

If I was Dom Capers and loved my job in Green Bay. Today, I'd be somewhat concerned.

The easy move and not necessarily 'best route towords a real solution'; would be 'of course' to can Dom Capers. It'll be very interesting to see what TT and MM decide. Alot of heat on these two men today. They should be more than 'just', somewhat concerned.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-will-make-changes-after-getting-demolished-in-playoffs-again-jk8c80g-186722401.html

As the week goes on, McCarthy is going to have to decide whether Capers has lost his touch and no longer has the ability to keep up with the NFL's increasingly diverse offensive attacks or is a victim of Thompson's draft-only philosophy and neglect in acquiring the bruising linebackers and safeties it takes to compete with the physical offenses of NFC contenders San Francisco and the New York Giants.

As players are wont to do, the Packers defend Capers and his staff to reporters, refusing publicly to turn on the same guys who helped them win Super Bowl rings. But it was also clear after the loss what players were speaking of when they said they were out-schemed and underprepared against 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and the read-option plays he used en route to breaking the NFL record for quarterback rushing yards with 181.

"Coach Capers is a great coach," said linebacker Desmond Bishop, who spent the season on injured reserve. "You can't have a great defense and win the Super Bowl one year and then be kicked out the next year, or a year or two later. I don't think it should work like that at all.

"I think Dom Capers is a great coach. It's just something I think we have to look at internally as a team and not really worry about going outside of the team. It's something we have to look at within ourselves. I think we will address that and be fine."

Should he decide to part ways with Capers, McCarthy wouldn't necessarily have to scrap the Steelers 3-4 system the Packers are currently using. Defensive line coach Mike Trgovac and safeties coach Darren Perry would be options if McCarthy chose to promote from within and keep the same system.

There are plenty of 3-4 practitioners so it wouldn't necessarily mean McCarthy would have to start from scratch on defense if he hired from somewhere else. The Packers have invested a lot into 3-4-type players and McCarthy likes the attacking style of that scheme.

But before McCarthy decides a coaching change is necessary, Thompson needs to examine his philosophy for stocking the roster with talent. Thompson devoted his first six draft choices last spring to defensive players, but did not sign a veteran free agent and made Capers and his staff make do this season with a bunch of rookies.

It's hard to have a successful defense when the roster is continually turning over and isn't allowed to mature. Whether that has been the case with the Packers is up for debate.

But what isn't is that Thompson has leaned away from acquiring big, physical players like Bishop in favor of more agile players like A.J. Hawk, Morgan Burnett, Brad Jones, D.J. Smith, M.D. Jennings, Sam Shields, Frank Zombo, Casey Hayward and Mike Daniels. From Link above and in another thread, as well

[woodbuck27]

1. Fire Capers. DC is only good when the opposing offense plays their tendencies. When the opposing team throws in wrinkles, DC is unable to adjust. How can the Packers be unprepared for the spread option?

2. Draft Manti Teo to be paired with Bishop. Get rid of Hawk and Walden. Put Jones back at olb.

3. Get back Johnny Jolly

4. Nick Perry brings some physicality to the defense.

5. Tramon is not the seme since signing the big contract. Replace TW with Davon House.

6. Find a DC with a history of defending the spread option successfully. Sorry guys this is not the wildcat.

Who's your new DC not named Lovie Smith?

[Guiness]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

[Guiness]

Red ?

Is Dom Capers the reason our defense stunk Vs the 49ers?

I don't know if he's why we stunk, but as I said in my post above, I don't understand why we couldn't scheme to take away his ability to run. I'd take my chances with what the rest of their offense brought to the table.

[Patler]

Keep over analyzing with your cronies and see where it takes us.

MM and TT need to take bolder action on defense. The defense appeared improved from last season but guess it was a mirage.

So they should change the DC, all coaches and the 11 starters? Is anything else "over analyzing" and/or "rationalizing"?

[Zool]

So they should change the DC, all coaches and the 11 starters? Is anything else "over analyzing" and/or "rationalizing"?

Well I guess it was only a matter of time. Here comes the sky falling now. Cluck.

[3irty1]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

[mraynrand]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

Good post. I thought their O-line was dominant. Packers wanted to get pressure to force Kap to throw garbage. Other than a few pressures, mostly early, he really had a lot of time back there. Matthews was completely, totally, embarrassingly dominated in the second half, by a tackle in severe pain. The coverage on Crabby wasn't so terrible; the throws by Kap were better. Who knows? Maybe he just got really super hot for that game, or that's the way it will look for a long time. No way to know, except that he's been very accurate with the deep ball in his limited starts. Packers need to get better at 3-5 positions on the defense; I'm guessing 2-3 of those guys are on the roster.

Nevertheless, Packers should have been able to adjust to Kap running, but given the lack of talent on the defense, I still think Niners dominate; Packers bleed, just a little more slowly.

[mraynrand]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

just ignore the crap and post good stuff

[run pMc]

Well I guess it was only a matter of time. Here comes the sky falling now. Cluck.

LOL

I don't think a knee-jerk overreaction is needed, and I don't think a rookie LB like Teo is the answer to fixing the defense's problems.
There aren't too many QB's who can run that kind of offensive attack, and not many teams with the OL to road-grade guys like Raji with regularity. Give SF credit -- they're a tough team to beat.

Losing Bishop, Smith, and Perry didn't help the LB depth; as for Hawk, he's not spectacular and probably overpaid, but he shows up to play every game. Can't say that for any other LB, Clay Matthews included. There's value in availability. Who would back up Hawk if he went down? Francois? I highly doubt any other ILB available on the roster would have held up at ILB like Hawk did. (I can't believe I'm sticking up for Hawk this much...yikes.) I can't tell if Hawk is JAG or not...he started the year out pretty well. Jones and Walden got exposed on a few plays and that happens with backups.

Personally, I'd like to see Capers, etc., stick around, and for more *quality* depth added at each level: DL, LB (Walden should be a backup), and at S. I'm not sold on Woodson at S -- he couldn't cover Frank Gore -- and unless McMillian makes a big jump next year, I don't anyone other than Burnett at safety who is more than JAG.

Yes, there's work for them to do and yes, it's a disappointing end to the season. Considering how the team came back from the Fail Mary in Seattle to win the division, give them a little credit. One last thing: this will be a *very* interesting offseason for them -- big changes with the WR's, plus at least some of the recent draft picks (esp. on defense) ought to make that big jump between rookie and 2nd season. If that happens the D could be much improved.

[pbmax]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

Its hard to know a spy from shallow zone coverage during a game without seeing the patterns from afar. The Packers played a lot of man when they blitzed, but also played some zone underneath and in the middle. So its an open question whether that backer was in zone looking for a pattern/receiver or looking for CK.

[Freak Out]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

LOL...way to early for that.

[woodbuck27]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

Hi Guiness a really rough defeat for our team.

I sat watching that game with my Lady and what was clear to her left me the same as you :

Stunned ! Mae put her arm around me and gave me a hug and asked me how I was doing. I was so silent. I was 'in shock'.

I was so wrapped up in the conclusion of the Ravens @ Broncos game that I actually didn't catch the six points that Sam Shields put up to assist our offense. I was between the TV screen and NFL.com on the puter. When I finally tuned into Packers @ 49ers I neglected to hit the record button for the game. I hope that NFL Access will show that game in it's entirety this week. I find little value in a recording of a game that the Packer win. I want to see this game again when 'the shock factor' is removed.

Who was spying on Colin Kaepernick?

The response to that question Guiness, isn't obvious to me.

In the first four possessions of the second half our offense managed a FG. At the 8:38 point of the third quarter the game was tied '24 all' on a Mason Crosby FG. Was the 49ers 'D' that good that an Aaron Rodgers led offense could only manage 3 points in four possessions?

Here's the game play by play so anyone can have a look and see for themself:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013011201/2012/POST19/packers@49ers?icampaign=GamePass_ScoreStrip_watch# menu=gamepass&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

3rd Quarter SCORE: 49ers 24 - Packers 21

Green Bay first possession of the second half:

Green Bay Packers to receive at 15:00 of the 3rd quarter:

2-D.Akers kicks 66 yards from SF 35 to GB -1. 18-R.Cobb to GB 26 for 27 yards (46-D.Walker).

1-10-GB 26 (14:54) (Shotgun) 26-D.Harris right tackle to GB 29 for 3 yards (94-J.Smith, 38-D.Goldson).

2-7-GB 29 (14:11) (Shotgun) 26-D.Harris right end to GB 32 for 3 yards (53-N.Bowman, 38-D.Goldson).

3-4-GB 32 (13:28) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 23 for -9 yards (52-P.Willis).

4-13-GB 23 (13:05) 8-T.Masthay punts 42 yards to SF 35, Center-61-B.Goode, fair catch by 19-T.Ginn.


Second Possession of the second half: SCORE 49ers 24 - Packers 21

Green Bay Packers at 11:56

1-10-GB 11 (11:56) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 85-G.Jennings to GB 13 for 2 yards (55-A.Brooks).

2-8-GB 13 (11:23) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right to 85-G.Jennings to GB 43 for 30 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at GB 43. 0-yds YAC

1-10-GB 43 (10:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 87-J.Nelson to SF 49 for 8 yards (26-T.Brock). Caught at 50. 1-yd YAC

2-2-SF 49 (10:18) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 87-J.Nelson pushed ob at SF 41 for 8 yards (26-T.Brock). Caught at SF 41. 0-yds YAC

1-10-SF 41 (10:01) (Shotgun) 18-R.Cobb right guard to SF 22 for 19 yards (52-P.Willis, 31-D.Whitner).

1-10-SF 22 (9:22) (Shotgun) 18-R.Cobb up the middle to SF 18 for 4 yards (99-Ald.Smith).

2-6-SF 18 (8:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 87-J.Nelson.

Timeout #1 by GB at 08:46.

3-6-SF 18 (8:46) PENALTY on GB-74-M.Newhouse, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 18 - No Play.

3-11-SF 23 (8:46) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 18-R.Cobb to SF 15 for 8 yards (38-D.Goldson). FUMBLES (38-D.Goldson), recovered by GB-70-T.Lang at SF 15. 70-T.Lang to SF 13 for 2 yards (20-P.Cox).

4-1-SF 13 (8:38) 2-M.Crosby 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-61-B.Goode, Holder-8-T.Masthay.

SCORE: PACKERS 24 - 49ers 24


Third Possession of the second half: SCORE after San Fran scored '7' on their last possession SF 31 - GB 24

Green Bay Packers at 07:07

2-D.Akers kicks 67 yards from SF 35 to GB -2. 18-R.Cobb, Touchback.

1-10-GB 20 (7:07) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 85-G.Jennings.

2-10-GB 20 (7:01) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 83-T.Crabtree (53-N.Bowman) [55-A.Brooks].

3-10-GB 20 (6:57) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers scrambles left end ran ob at GB 37 for 17 yards.

1-10-GB 37 (6:27) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 18-R.Cobb to GB 40 for 3 yards (38-D.Goldson, 20-P.Cox).

2-7-GB 40 (5:52) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 18-R.Cobb to GB 41 for 1 yard (94-J.Smith).

3-6-GB 41 (5:12) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 88-J.Finley (53-N.Bowman).

4-6-GB 41 (5:07) 8-T.Masthay punts 52 yards to SF 7, Center-61-B.Goode, fair catch by 19-T.Ginn.


Right at the beginning of the fourth quarter the 49ers score again to increase their lead. SCORE SF 38 - GB 24

OK.... We have a whole quarter and are down 14 points. Two possessions !

Green Bay Packers at 14:57

Fourth Possession of the second half:

2-D.Akers kicks 60 yards from SF 35 to GB 5. 18-R.Cobb MUFFS catch, and recovers at GB 8. 18-R.Cobb to GB 11 for 3 yards (57-M.Wilhoite).

Did you remember that one?

1-10-GB 11 (14:51) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to GB 18 for 7 yards (53-N.Bowman). Caught at GB 17. 1-yd YAC

2-3-GB 18 (14:26) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 88-J.Finley to GB 27 for 9 yards (52-P.Willis). Caught at GB 27. 0-yds YAC

1-10-GB 27 (13:58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to GB 32 for 5 yards (22-C.Rogers, 38-D.Goldson). Caught at GB 29. 3-yds YAC

2-5-GB 32 (13:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 88-J.Finley to GB 34 for 2 yards (53-N.Bowman, 31-D.Whitner). Caught at GB 30. 4-yds YAC

3-3-GB 34 (12:53) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 87-J.Nelson to GB 44 for 10 yards (29-C.Culliver). Caught at GB41. 3-yds YAC

1-10-GB 44 (12:17) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 83-T.Crabtree.

2-10-GB 44 (12:10) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to GB 49 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis). Caught at GB 46. 3-yds YAC

3-5-GB 49 (11:43) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to 85-G.Jennings.

What if .... that pass had connected !? Can you still see that play?

4-5-GB 49 (11:37) 8-T.Masthay punts 44 yards to SF 7, Center-61-B.Goode, downed by GB-10-J.Ross.

Again in this half. Our offense didn't get it done.

Unfortunately as we saw it got worse for us on the scoreboard !

Some might say that the turning point in that game was the Jeremy Ross bobble. If you do, I ask this question:

How did Colin Kaepernick and the San Francisco 49ers respond to the Sam Shields 'pick six'?

GO PACK GO!

[Guiness]

[QUOTE=woodbuck27;710326]Hi Guiness a really rough defeat for our team.


In the first four possessions of the second half our offense managed a FG. At the 8:38 point of the third quarter the game was tied '24 all' on a Mason Crosby FG. Was the 49ers 'D' that good that an Aaron Rodgers led offense could only manage 3 points in four possessions?

[QUOTE]

While I (and everyone else) would have like the O to be on fire and respond score for score, what I saw was that the Pack's defense couldn't hold serve. What stood out to me was the two times near the end of the game the offense flipped the field, putting the Niner's offense inside their 10 yard line. Both series resulted in a TD for the Niners. Before that, as you pointed out, it was a tie game...

[denverYooper]

I believe Dom's contract expires soon, doesn't it? If so, the JSO guys might be playing up the "Fire Capers" angle a bit more because of that. Have any of them mentioned his contract status?

I'm not exactly on the Fire Capers wagon, but it's possible that they simply don't extend him.

[woodbuck27]

[QUOTE=woodbuck27;710326]Hi Guiness a really rough defeat for our team.


In the first four possessions of the second half our offense managed a FG. At the 8:38 point of the third quarter the game was tied '24 all' on a Mason Crosby FG. Was the 49ers 'D' that good that an Aaron Rodgers led offense could only manage 3 points in four possessions?[QUOTE]

While I (and everyone else) would have like the O to be on fire and respond score for score, what I saw was that the Pack's defense couldn't hold serve. What stood out to me was the two times near the end of the game the offense flipped the field, putting the Niner's offense inside their 10 yard line. Both series resulted in a TD for the Niners. Before that, as you pointed out, it was a tie game...

In the third quarter:

4-1-SF 13 (8:38) 2-M.Crosby 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-61-B.Goode, Holder-8-T.Masthay.

S C O R E: GB 24 - SF 24 Plays: 9 Possession: 3:31

San Francisco 49ers at 08:25

2-M.Crosby kicks 74 yards from GB 35 to SF -9. 23-L.James, Touchback.

1-10-SF 20 (8:25) 7-C.Kaepernick pass deep left to 15-M.Crabtree to SF 38 for 18 yards (38-T.Williams). Caught at SF 37. 1-yd YAC

1-10-SF 38 (7:56) (Shotgun) 7-C.Kaepernick pass short left to 15-M.Crabtree to SF 44 for 6 yards (37-S.Shields). Caught at SF 37. 7-yds YAC

2-4-SF 44 (7:16) (Shotgun) 7-C.Kaepernick right end for 56 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

2-D.Akers extra point is GOOD, Center-86-B.Jennings, Holder-4-A.Lee.

S C O R E : GB 24 - SF 31 Plays: 3 Possession: 1:18

We get the ball back and start out on our 20 yard line and our offense moves it to the GB 41 yard line and we punt.

4-6-GB 41 (5:07) 8-T.Masthay punts 52 yards to SF 7, Center-61-B.Goode, fair catch by 19-T.Ginn.

San Francisco 49ers at 05:00 remaining in the third quarter:

1-10-SF 7 (5:00) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore left guard to SF 10 for 3 yards (79-R.Pickett, 50-A.Hawk). GB-79-R.Pickett was injured during the play.

2-7-SF 10 (4:20) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to SF 15 for 5 yards (59-B.Jones, 50-A.Hawk).

3-2-SF 15 (3:36) (Shotgun) 7-C.Kaepernick pass deep right to 15-M.Crabtree to SF 31 for 16 yards (38-T.Williams). Caught at SF 31. 0-yds YAC

1-10-SF 31 (2:57) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore right guard to SF 34 for 3 yards (50-A.Hawk).

2-7-SF 34 (2:18) 7-C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep right to 85-V.Davis. PENALTY on GB-38-T.Williams, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at SF 34 - No Play.

1-10-SF 39 (2:11) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to SF 41 for 2 yards (98-C.Wilson).

2-8-SF 41 (1:32) 7-C.Kaepernick pass deep right to 85-V.Davis to GB 15 for 44 yards (50-A.Hawk). Caught at GB 25. 10-yds YAC

1-10-GB 15 (:45) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to GB 2 for 13 yards (50-A.Hawk, 42-M.Burnett).

END QUARTER 3

4th Quarter

San Francisco 49ers continues ...[/B]

1-2-GB 2 (15:00) 67-D.Kilgore and 68-L.Davis reported in as eligible.

21-F.Gore right tackle for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

0-0-GB 2 2-D.Akers extra point is GOOD, Center-86-B.Jennings, Holder-4-A.Lee.

S C O R E : GB 24 - SF 38 Plays: 8 Possession: 5:03

Like I posted before I don't have this game recorded. In the play by play available on NFL.Com I cannot find the J. Ross bobble that was a huge turnover to the 49ers.**

*** OK That was in the second quarter and gave the 49ers the ball on our 9 yard line and quickly they scored a TD to tie the score at '14'. In these posts I'm confining my analysis to the second half; specifically what transpired before and after when we tied the score at '24'.

[woodbuck27]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

Hi .... I apologize for not restricting my posts on this thread to strictly defensive issues. I believe that offense and defense are certainly related or depended upon one another.

[woodbuck27]

And by the way, anyone who argues against the bye week next year should simply be reminded of this game. The 49ers put both weeks to good use.

Really. The 49ers looked very fresh ... very ready.

The Packer players looked to me like they ran out of gas. Is it the case that many of our players were suffering a hangover from some virus?

Aaron Rodgers (his eyes) looked bad. He had no fire in his eyes..'no will'. So many times our players seemed confused. Recall the way Clay Matthews looked. He was owned in that second half.

[VegasPackFan]

I dont get all the Hawk bashing. He was second in tackling this year and led the team two years ago in tackles. He is a team player and you never hear any bitching or complaining from him.

[denverYooper]

Really. The 49ers looked very fresh ... very ready.

The Packer players looked to me like they ran out of gas. Is it the case that many of our players were suffering a hangover from some virus?

Aaron Rodgers (his eyes) looked bad. He had no fire in his eyes..'no will'. So many times our players seemed confused. Recall the way Clay Matthews looked. He was owned in that second half.

Good point about the virus. Several players were in and out with the flu, and it sounds like it hit Cobb pretty hard.

The defense ran out of gas because they were on the field so much.

As far as Rodgers, I thought he was a bit too willful. He was throwing harder than usual even when he was on. Even his INT was way over Jordy's head, although I think Jordy might have been thinking of breaking toward the corner and Rodgers thinking down the middle.

[woodbuck27]

Good point about the virus. Several players were in and out with the flu, and it sounds like it hit Cobb pretty hard.

The defense ran out of gas because they were on the field so much.

As far as Rodgers, I thought he was a bit too willful. He was throwing harder than usual even when he was on. Even his INT was way over Jordy's head, although I think Jordy might have been thinking of breaking toward the corner and Rodgers thinking down the middle.

The teams 'O' and 'D' certainly rely on one another to assist the other.

Aaron Rodgers didn't look at all like himself. If you can ever see a recording of that game observe his eyes.

I'm not sure that Aaron Rodgers really registered the danger on that long pass and pick. He was quick on electing that play. It was one of those 'no harm no foul' plays. It just was.

[woodbuck27]

I dont get all the Hawk bashing. He was second in tackling this year and led the team two years ago in tackles. He is a team player and you never hear any bitching or complaining from him.

AJ Hawk was a high selection by Ted Thompson. Unless TT can use him in a very sensable trade. AJ Hawk will remain a Green Bay Packer for some time.

[Deputy Nutz]

Both offensively and defensively, the packers failed on Saturday night. The offense didn't meet expectations and the defense certainly didn't. I am not making the argument that one was worse than the other, they were beat by the better team, not once but twice this season. In the off season the Packers will lose players and gain players with the predetermined goal of getting better in all three phases of the game. Dom Capers doesn't need to be fired, he just needs to fix what was broken or exposed.

[woodbuck27]

I believe Dom's contract expires soon, doesn't it? If so, the JSO guys might be playing up the "Fire Capers" angle a bit more because of that. Have any of them mentioned his contract status?

I'm not exactly on the Fire Capers wagon, but it's possible that they simply don't extend him.

It appears to me that FIRING Dom Capers is simply a move.

Before that move is made MM and TT need to find a convincing alternative.

We need more experience and talent on our defense. We need to see defensive schemes in games against the best teams that are more flexible.

[pbmax]

Aaron Nagler asked a question to smart football about why the Falcons could figure out the zone read versus the Seahawks yet the Packers had trouble with the 49ers.

Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@Aaron_Nagler @RapSheet SEA ran zone read one way all year, never moved RB presnap/etc. ATL keyed formation, sat and forced give & squeezed


Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler To be fair, GB hadn't seen anything like this all year and SF only uses it situationally - a lot to prepare for


Also, Falcons had an extra week of film time.

[woodbuck27]

Both offensively and defensively, the packers failed on Saturday night. The offense didn't meet expectations and the defense certainly didn't. I am not making the argument that one was worse than the other, they were beat by the better team, not once but twice this season. In the off season the Packers will lose players and gain players with the predetermined goal of getting better in all three phases of the game. Dom Capers doesn't need to be fired, he just needs to fix what was broken or exposed.

Hi Deputy: I've got a question for you. See below please.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-will-make-changes-after-getting-demolished-in-playoffs-again-jk8c80g-186722401.html

Inside Green Bay Packers headquarters Sunday, the defense was nowhere to be found, just like the night before in a 45-31 divisional playoff loss to the San Francisco 49ers.

As the offense, special teams and injured players made their final locker room appearance in front of reporters Sunday, defensive players were conspicuous by their absence. Not a single starter was around to assess the future of a unit that for the third time in four years failed the team in the playoffs. Fr. LINK

Deputy Nutz?

If zero defensive players showed up yesterday 'at Lambeau Field' to clean out their lockers. Where were they?

Did they congregate for brunch and a meeting? Were they meeting to make a united stand on some agenda?

and ..... as to your statement above:

I agree with that statement. Just because a ship is lilting to one side. Do you square it up by tossing 'the officers' overboard?

[denverYooper]

Aaron Nagler asked a question to smart football about why the Falcons could figure out the zone read versus the Seahawks yet the Packers had trouble with the 49ers.

Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@Aaron_Nagler @RapSheet SEA ran zone read one way all year, never moved RB presnap/etc. ATL keyed formation, sat and forced give & squeezed


Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler To be fair, GB hadn't seen anything like this all year and SF only uses it situationally - a lot to prepare for


Also, Falcons had an extra week of film time.

He was looking for this, too. Matthews spinning a 360 before he comes after Kaep.
http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/ClayMatthewSpunOption.gif

[pittstang5]

I dont get all the Hawk bashing. He was second in tackling this year and led the team two years ago in tackles. He is a team player and you never hear any bitching or complaining from him.

I think it's his salary for one (paid pretty high for average production), his draft status (high pick and again, average production) and he's not a "Monster Force," i.e. teams aren't worried about AJ Hawk like some other LBs.

I'm a huge AJ Hawk fan and even have a Hawk Jersey. I don't want to see him go, but even I can't justify his salary when this teams needs help and room to sign more important players like Rodgers, Mathews and Raji to future contracts.

[pbmax]

Smart Football ‏@smartfootball

Exactly. RT @ECStoner Zone bootleg NFL teams have ran forever is an evolutionary predecessor to the read option. Now, it's not a blind call

[pbmax]

That was just poorly played by Jones. He has to stop that and force it back inside. But by the time he made good contact with the FB, it was too wide and Matthews, even if he had read it correctly the first time, had a lot of space to defend. As it was, the block defeated Jones anyway.

[mraynrand]

Aaron Rodgers (his eyes) looked bad. He had no fire in his eyes..'no will'.

Maybe you could star on "The Mentalist" :roll:

[sharpe1027]

He was looking for this, too. Matthews spinning a 360 before he comes after Kaep.


It looks like Brad Jones had contain responsibilities and yet Matthews was still in on the play.

[denverYooper]

More smartfootball

smartfootball Smart Football
.@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler To be fair, GB hadn't seen anything like this all year and SF only uses it situationally - a lot to prepare for

Tre9er Tre Faaborg
@smartfootball funny how ignorant so many are to Kap's usage. Read option was tiny play-package most of year.

smartfootball Smart Football
@Tre9er Yeah, I think they just went to it as it was clear GB had no answer plus it was a playoff game and felt need to outscore Rodgers

Tre9er Tre Faaborg
@smartfootball I think it's more than that, though. Think Harbaugh wanted everyone to sleep on it, rarely used it, D's don't spend much prep

Tre9er Tre Faaborg
@smartfootball and conversely ATL is probably pulling every R.O. play they can find of 49ers...and Harbaugh probably won't use it Sunday.

smartfootball Smart Football
@Tre9er Yep. They are tough because they can go deep play action off that look, and they also want to pound you with gap/trap/wham schemes

Tre9er Tre Faaborg
@smartfootball said it earlier, at this point best part is that G.Ro knows he can pull any page from the book, in-game, and players know it

HubbuchNYP Bart Hubbuch
@smartfootball GB saw it the week before, actually. Joe Webb ran the read option the first couple of drives for Minnesota.

smartfootball Smart Football
@HubbuchNYP Yeah but Vikes slapped it in their playbook last minute. SF has had it in package all year and much more sophisticated w/ it

HubbuchNYP Bart Hubbuch
@smartfootball Agreed. Although a couple of Niners told me they added read-option plays after watching how GB struggled early with Webb.

smartfootball Smart Football
@HubbuchNYP SF does stuff like zone reading a DE while a FB/TE arcs and *also* reads him; or they block the DE and read the OLB, etc.

smartfootball Smart Football
@HubbuchNYP Vikings essentially tried to do what they'd seen Oregon do on TV a few nights before - not quite the same

HubbuchNYP Bart Hubbuch
@smartfootball GB certainly played (and coached) like they'd never seen any version of the option before, LOL. That was pathetic.

vinnieiyer SN's Vinnie Iyer
@HubbuchNYP @smartfootball The Packers read it, but they were exercising their option not to defend it.

HubbuchNYP Bart Hubbuch
@vinnieiyer NICE.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe you could star on "The Mentalist" :roll:

Maybe you could sober up and make an observation that would lead creedance to a thread.

Otherwise.... Uuumm ... well .... you know. :-D

[denverYooper]

More @smartfootball

@ECStoner @LanceZierlein NFL DCs no doubt on phone today and all offseason w/ their buddies in college though. Much of it is technique

LanceZierlein Lance Zierlein
@smartfootball but u know like I do that college DCs are having massive issues in stopping it as well.... especially when run at warp speed

smartfootball Smart Football
@LanceZierlein Oh yea, especially when combined with a vertical passing game. Puts DEs and Ss in huge binds

LanceZierlein Lance Zierlein
@smartfootball that's what the old crankies miss. This isn't wishbone football. We're talking option football with vertical tendencies

smartfootball Smart Football
@LanceZierlein Homer Smith predicted all of this back in like 2000

[Noodle]

While we haven't seen this look before, it does appear that GB was woefully unprepared for Kaepernick's speed. Woodson was quoted as saying something like ''I didn't know how fast he was, coming in I really never paid attention to it."

What? The dude ran a combine 40 of 4.53, you know, almost as fast as Jordy Nelson at 4.51. How is it possible that Capers didn't stress how dangerously fast the dude is and gameplan accordingly (zone, spy, setting the edge)?

I'm still not over this loss.

[Guiness]

While we haven't seen this look before, it does appear that GB was woefully unprepared for Kaepernick's speed. Woodson was quoted as saying something like ''I didn't know how fast he was, coming in I really never paid attention to it."

What? The dude ran a combine 40 of 4.53, you know, almost as fast as Jordy Nelson at 4.51. How is it possible that Capers didn't stress how dangerously fast the dude is and gameplan accordingly (zone, spy, setting the edge)?

I'm still not over this loss.

And like Jordy, he sure seems to have 'long' speed. That big run of his, no one was catching him.

[pbmax]

Here is the breakdown of the Pistol Offense in the NFL . This article mainly concerns itself with Chris Ault's pistol from Nevada, but the article makes the convincing case that it is and will continue to be more influential in the NFL than Urban Meyer, Rich Rodriguez or Chip Kelly's offenses. His pistol gives you a shotgun formation but with back behind the QB to get a more vertical angle on running plays. Despite the alignment difference, a running QB and creative OC an run the same basic zone, zone reads and other option stuff from the other offenses.

You want to know what I want to hear from M3 tomorrow? That he is hiring Chris Ault out of retirement to consult about this offense.

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3

If you read down far enough, the author switches from RGIII to Ck and shows you two plays that we saw run against the Packers, including #46 one on one blocking the last contain guy on the Offenses left. Same play that spun Clay's head around. The fact that this play had to be on tape makes me think Capers, et al., must have seen it. But I think they underestimated the damage Ck could do with it. Not sure how you could not be scared of the kid given some of what he did this year.

However, the really mind blowing thing? Mike Sherman basically had the same thought as Chris Ault ten years ago when he had Favre running the Short-Gun. QB 3-5 yards off the LOS with backs offset and behind him. There was no option, but his tweak to the shotgun was for the same reason Ault built the pistol.

[pbmax]

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3

http://assets.sbnation.com.s3.amazonaws.com/features/RG3/Niners3.png

[denverYooper]

Now watch the Packers pick up Tebow and teach him how to throw ;).

[pbmax]

Roman (49er OC) apparently has met with Ault even before CK to discuss this offense. He did it as OC of Stanford with Luck as his QB.

[pbmax]

6h Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
RT @smartfootball: Had fun convos today with some college coaches laughing about the GB/SF game. GB was awful
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6h Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@Aaron_Nagler @smartfootball How so?
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Bottom line, to give up most playoff yards the 49ers have ever had in their storied history is a bad day on defense
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4:20 PM - 14 Jan 13 · Details
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@TortiousTroll @Aaron_Nagler I think that's one reason why SF used it so much, as Rodgers was fairly hot and wanted to keep scoring
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Tre9er Yeah, I think they just went to it as it was clear GB had no answer plus it was a playoff game and felt need to outscore Rodgers
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Aaron_Nagler @RapSheet Can't do that vs SF as they use the pistol and change around blocking schemes and use the FB/TE on the arc stuff
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4:19 PM - 14 Jan 13 · Details
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6h Joey Ickes ‏@JIckes1
@smartfootball @aaron_nagler @rapsheet I think the arc stuff is what may make it viable longer term. Hard to dissect it till QB is gone...
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6h Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@Aaron_Nagler @smartfootball How so?
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Said reminded them of college Ds defending read game 10 years ago in terms of bad technique/no alley defender/etc
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6h Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@smartfootball @Aaron_Nagler Oh damn. Well, it kinda did. But that's cold. Does not bode well for Dom Capers.
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler SEA's read game though is much more vanilla than what SF does. SF just throws a lot of offense at you
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6h Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
@smartfootball @RapSheet Found it interesting that Wilson didn't keep it once against ATL. Edge was there to be had. Kept giving it to Lynch
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@Aaron_Nagler @RapSheet SEA ran zone read one way all year, never moved RB presnap/etc. ATL keyed formation, sat and forced give & squeezed
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4:18 PM - 14 Jan 13 · Details
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6h David Agostino ‏@Dave_agger
@smartfootball how does SF run its read option? More diverse?
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6h Kevin Walsh ‏@Walshmobile
@smartfootball @Aaron_Nagler @RapSheet Need that Arc Block!
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Dave_agger Check this out: http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3 … - a lot of "arc" stuff. Arc guy will even read the DE whether to block or bluff him
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6h David Agostino ‏@Dave_agger
@smartfootball so to say that atlanta has "solved" pistol b/c they limited Seattle would be very inaccurate? SF different animal
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Dave_agger That's my opinion
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler To be fair, GB hadn't seen anything like this all year and SF only uses it situationally - a lot to prepare for
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4:17 PM - 14 Jan 13 · Details
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6h Tre Faaborg ‏@Tre9er
@smartfootball funny how ignorant so many are to Kap's usage. Read option was tiny play-package most of year.
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Tre9er Yeah, I think they just went to it as it was clear GB had no answer plus it was a playoff game and felt need to outscore Rodgers
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6h Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP
@smartfootball GB saw it the week before, actually. Joe Webb ran the read option the first couple of drives for Minnesota.
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6h Tre Faaborg ‏@Tre9er
@smartfootball and conversely ATL is probably pulling every R.O. play they can find of 49ers...and Harbaugh probably won't use it Sunday.
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@HubbuchNYP Yeah but Vikes slapped it in their playbook last minute. SF has had it in package all year and much more sophisticated w/ it
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Biggest advantage for the NFL is the hesitation it puts on DEnds. They can't crash on 1st/2nd down passing
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler SEA's read game though is much more vanilla than what SF does. SF just throws a lot of offense at you
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler ATL played the read stuff well but got hurt in man coverage w/ Wilson scrambles and then found open guys vs zone
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6h Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
RT @smartfootball: Had fun convos today with some college coaches laughing about the GB/SF game. GB was awful
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6h Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@Aaron_Nagler @smartfootball How so?
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Said reminded them of college Ds defending read game 10 years ago in terms of bad technique/no alley defender/etc
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6h Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@smartfootball @Aaron_Nagler Oh damn. Well, it kinda did. But that's cold. Does not bode well for Dom Capers.
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler A lot of it was just bad technique, hesitation, no LB scraping and then no secondary support.
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4:15 PM - 14 Jan 13 · Details
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6h Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
@smartfootball @RapSheet That last part is really apparent on the tv copy so far - SFs wideouts did a great job on the perimeter.
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6h Matt Koth ‏@mattkoth
@smartfootball @rapsheet @aaron_nagler enough for a change at DC? Dom hasn't ever seemed to "adapt" in game
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6h Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
RT @smartfootball: Had fun convos today with some college coaches laughing about the GB/SF game. GB was awful
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6h Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@Aaron_Nagler @smartfootball How so?
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler SF has a very nifty scheme as their FB/H-Back actually reads the DEnd like the QB does - very tough to defend
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4:14 PM - 14 Jan 13 · Details
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Were confident NFL DCs will be on the phone all offseason with their buddies in college and will be tougher next yr
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4:14 PM - 14 Jan 13 · Details
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6h Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@smartfootball @Aaron_Nagler Guaranteed.
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Biggest advantage for the NFL is the hesitation it puts on DEnds. They can't crash on 1st/2nd down passing
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6h Darren Page ‏@DarrenPage15
@smartfootball @RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler pick out the guy you can't block anyways (Clay Matthews in this case) and make him almost useless
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6h John Carpenter ‏@carpy5024
@smartfootball @rapsheet @aaron_nagler NE is set up to defend read option well. Their D ends are big and athletic. OLBs are too.
from Dix Hills, NY
6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@carpy5024 @RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Somehow I don't expect New England to just look completely befuddled. Key will be inside running on gives
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Said reminded them of college Ds defending read game 10 years ago in terms of bad technique/no alley defender/etc
View conversation
6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@mrZ2uSON @ECStoner @LanceZierlein A bit of a project so not a top round guy but I liked him well enough at ARZ. Not real big right?
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Aaron_Nagler Said GB defending read stuff reminded them of college Ds like 10 years ago. Confident NFL Ds will get much better next year
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@ECStoner @LanceZierlein I think biggest danger to the change are injuries but also next year's QB crop is weak
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@ECStoner @LanceZierlein NFL DCs no doubt on phone today and all offseason w/ their buddies in college though. Much of it is technique
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6h Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
I don't expect most NFL types to agree w/ what I'm saying regarding offense, but its happening. The farm system (college) is set up that way
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6h Eric Stoner ‏@ECStoner
@LanceZierlein From the old @smartfootball site -----> http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/nfl-offense-what-is-it-why-does-every.html …
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@ECStoner @LanceZierlein Change is fun. Had fun convos today with some college coaches laughing about the GB/SF game. GB was awful
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@mjbarone21 @siwashmatt Ultimately it's less of a "scheme" thing or "outsmarting" than technique. GB was like a bad JV team out there
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6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@mjbarone21 @siwashmatt SEA had a very limited zone read package. SF's much more diverse and advanced. ATL played it sound technique wise...
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[denverYooper]

You missed the one where he mentions he was on the phone with college coaches who were having a good laugh about GB's ineptitude.

[pbmax]

You missed the one where he mentions he was on the phone with college coaches who were having a good laugh about GB's ineptitude.

Yeah, its buried in there somewhere. Twitter as long form conversation recording stinks.

[rbaloha1]

So they should change the DC, all coaches and the 11 starters? Is anything else "over analyzing" and/or "rationalizing"?


Check out pete carroll and the seahawks and the roster moves made. something like only 8 players remain form the original team.

It can be done.

[Joemailman]

Check out pete carroll and the seahawks and the roster moves made. something like only 8 players remain form the original team.

It can be done.

Sure, but they weren't 2 years removed from a Super Bowl win when they started to clean house.

[Guiness]

Check out pete carroll and the seahawks and the roster moves made. something like only 8 players remain form the original team.

It can be done.

Next year and the one after will be interesting in the evolution of this sort of an offense, to see if it peters out.

My gut tells me that while there seem to be a few QBs out there that can run, none of them will last long, or at at least play in that style of an offense long. You just can't expose someone with a QBs build to the pounding. Vick has laster longer than any one else at it. RGIII, I'm guessing, won't be doing much of it next year. So maybe Kaepernick lasts two seasons? Three? At the outside, I don't see him running around like that 5 years from now.

Talking heads bring up 'franchise QB' so often because stability at that position is important. You can't have that if you wear them out that fast.

[rbaloha1]

If you say so then it must be true.

That is right hotshot -- deal with it:flm:

[rbaloha1]

I guess it is fair to compare last season to a singe game. Any additional discussion is over analyzing. Nobody is saying the defense shouldn't be improved. You could acknowledge other people's views and carry on a discussion or you can dismiss them out of hand with one liners about "over analyzing" and "cronies." I think it is obvious which course of action is most productive.


What is most productive? Shakespeare siloquoies?

[denverYooper]

What is most productive? Shakespeare siloquoies?

Is that like a speech about a grain elevator?

[rbaloha1]

Is that like a speech about a grain elevator?

Yes -- assuming there is grain in the elevator.

[Patler]

Check out pete carroll and the seahawks and the roster moves made. something like only 8 players remain form the original team.

It can be done.

Well of course it can be done, TT did it with the full roster when he first came to GB. He also started the process again this year on defense, adding nine new defensive players to the roster. With the four from last year and holdovers like Matthews, Raji and Pickett, the question is are they well into the rebuild, or did they miss the mark so that they have to start over?

I'm not sure we have a good idea what they have in players like House, Perry and even a FA like Richardson because of their injuries. Some who played. like Worthy, Daniels and others could come back a lot better players in 2013.

So, do you need to blow-up the defense and start over, or expect the natural development of the 10-14 going into their 2nd and 3rd years and add 4 or 5 new players for next year?

[mraynrand]

expect the natural development of the 10-14 going into their 2nd and 3rd years and add 4 or 5 new players for next year?

I like this view a lot. Still, I also like the view of firing a few coaches too. Recall the famous Jack Welch business model when he was CEO of GE. You periodically get rid of the lowest 10% or so of your performers - it works generally as motivation to perform and it works to get rid of the garbage and maybe bring in some really talented fresh blood. How about a college assistant from a school that effectively runs the read option? Hint, hint.

[pbmax]

I like this view a lot. Still, I also like the view of firing a few coaches too. Recall the famous Jack Welch business model when he was CEO of GE. You periodically get rid of the lowest 10% or so of your performers - it works generally as motivation to perform and it works to get rid of the garbage and maybe bring in some really talented fresh blood. How about a college assistant from a school that effectively runs the read option? Hint, hint.

It also helps if you cook the books in leaner years. :lol:

[pbmax]

Well of course it can be done, TT did it with the full roster when he first came to GB. He also started the process again this year on defense, adding nine new defensive players to the roster. With the four from last year and holdovers like Matthews, Raji and Pickett, the question is are they well into the rebuild, or did they miss the mark so that they have to start over?

I'm not sure we have a good idea what they have in players like House, Perry and even a FA like Richardson because of their injuries. Some who played. like Worthy, Daniels and others could come back a lot better players in 2013.

So, do you need to blow-up the defense and start over, or expect the natural development of the 10-14 going into their 2nd and 3rd years and add 4 or 5 new players for next year?

This is my fear. That an entirely rational decision will leave a typical draft and UDFA class as the lone additions to the defense next year. And then it will be proven again that the front 7 players from the 2012 draft are still misfits in the base D.

[mraynrand]

It also helps if you cook the books in leaner years. :lol:


I'm OK with that too: 8-8 in 2008 sounds fine to me.

[mraynrand]

This is my fear. That an entirely rational decision will leave a typical draft and UDFA class as the lone additions to the defense next year. And then it will be proven again that the front 7 players from the 2012 draft are still misfits in the base D.

Patler said 4-5 new players; he didn't specify they have to be rookies and UDFAs; might be the time to mix in an actual FA or two with known, developed, proven skills.

[pbmax]

Here is the first edited version of the Twitter conversation about what happened to the Packers

This is edited from Smart Football's Timeline to put comments into categories of similar topics or answers.

On Why San Fran Altered Gameplan for Packers
Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
RT @smartfootball: Had fun convos today with some college coaches laughing about the GB/SF game. GB was awful
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@Aaron_Nagler @smartfootball How so?
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Bottom line, to give up most playoff yards the 49ers have ever had in their storied history is a bad day on defense
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@TortiousTroll @Aaron_Nagler I think that's one reason why SF used it so much, as Rodgers was fairly hot and wanted to keep scoring
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Tre9er Yeah, I think they just went to it as it was clear GB had no answer plus it was a playoff game and felt need to outscore Rodgers
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Aaron_Nagler @RapSheet Can't do that vs SF as they use the pistol and change around blocking schemes and use the FB/TE on the arc stuff
Joey Ickes ‏@JIckes1
@smartfootball @aaron_nagler @rapsheet I think the arc stuff is what may make it viable longer term. Hard to dissect it till QB is gone...
~~~~
Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP
@smartfootball Agreed. Although a couple of Niners told me they added read-option plays after watching how GB struggled early with Webb.


On talking to college coaches about Packer D and why San Fran and 49ers are Different offenses with mobile Quarterbacks
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Said reminded them of college Ds defending read game 10 years ago in terms of bad technique/no alley defender/etc
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler SEA's read game though is much more vanilla than what SF does. SF just throws a lot of offense at you
Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
@smartfootball @RapSheet Found it interesting that Wilson didn't keep it once against ATL. Edge was there to be had. Kept giving it to Lynch
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@Aaron_Nagler @RapSheet SEA ran zone read one way all year, never moved RB presnap/etc. ATL keyed formation, sat and forced give & squeezed
David Agostino ‏@Dave_agger
@smartfootball how does SF run its read option? More diverse?
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Dave_agger Check this out: http://www.sbnation.com/longform/201...l-redskins-rg3 … - a lot of "arc" stuff. Arc guy will even read the DE whether to block or bluff him
David Agostino ‏@Dave_agger
@smartfootball so to say that atlanta has "solved" pistol b/c they limited Seattle would be very inaccurate? SF different animal
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@Dave_agger That's my opinion
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler To be fair, GB hadn't seen anything like this all year and SF only uses it situationally - a lot to prepare for
Tre Faaborg ‏@Tre9er
@smartfootball funny how ignorant so many are to Kap's usage. Read option was tiny play-package most of year.
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler SEA's read game though is much more vanilla than what SF does. SF just throws a lot of offense at you
View conversation
6h Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler ATL played the read stuff well but got hurt in man coverage w/ Wilson scrambles and then found open guys vs zone



Why the Vikes REALLY Weren't Good Preparation for the 49ers
Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP
@smartfootball GB saw it the week before, actually. Joe Webb ran the read option the first couple of drives for Minnesota.
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@HubbuchNYP Yeah but Vikes slapped it in their playbook last minute. SF has had it in package all year and much more sophisticated w/ it



Capers Guilty of Malpractice?
Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
RT @smartfootball: Had fun convos today with some college coaches laughing about the GB/SF game. GB was awful
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@Aaron_Nagler @smartfootball How so?
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Said reminded them of college Ds defending read game 10 years ago in terms of bad technique/no alley defender/etc
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
@smartfootball @Aaron_Nagler Oh damn. Well, it kinda did. But that's cold. Does not bode well for Dom Capers.
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler A lot of it was just bad technique, hesitation, no LB scraping and then no secondary support.
Aaron Nagler ‏@Aaron_Nagler
@smartfootball @RapSheet That last part is really apparent on the tv copy so far - SFs wideouts did a great job on the perimeter.
Matt Koth ‏@mattkoth
@smartfootball @rapsheet @aaron_nagler enough for a change at DC? Dom hasn't ever seemed to "adapt" in game
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler SF has a very nifty scheme as their FB/H-Back actually reads the DEnd like the QB does - very tough to defend
~~~~
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
.@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler To be fair, GB hadn't seen anything like this all year and SF only uses it situationally - a lot to prepare for
~~~~
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Were confident NFL DCs will be on the phone all offseason with their buddies in college and will be tougher next yr
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@RapSheet @Aaron_Nagler Biggest advantage for the NFL is the hesitation it puts on DEnds. They can't crash on 1st/2nd down passing
~~~~
Smart Football ‏@smartfootball
@mjbarone21 @siwashmatt Ultimately it's less of a "scheme" thing or "outsmarting" than technique. GB was like a bad JV team out there

[pbmax]

Patler said 4-5 new players; he didn't specify they have to be rookies and UDFAs; might be the time to mix in an actual FA or two with known, developed, proven skills.

Of course, but my fear is based around a typical offseason for TT and the judgement, which is fair, that much is unknown about the D player upgrades from 2012 yet.

[Smeefers]

Was A-ROD dropping a dream? My only point is to acquire Teo if there is a legit opportunity.

A-Rod dropping was a dream. It was unbelievable. Nobody could believe it. Looking back, everyone knows they were nuts for letting him go by them. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. To depend on things like that to happen in order to improve our football team would be unhealthy and unrealistic.

I agree that if he's there, you snap him up and laugh all the way home. I believe that with any player who's graded that highly. I don't care if another top ten QB falls to us (which I know won't happen this year), you grab his ass and be happy with what you've got.

[sharpe1027]

This is my fear. That an entirely rational decision will leave a typical draft and UDFA class as the lone additions to the defense next year. And then it will be proven again that the front 7 players from the 2012 draft are still misfits in the base D.

I take it that you think that Worthy and Daniels are misfits in Caper's 3-4? Do you include Perry in that assessment too? I think Perry is OK in the base D, although he shouldn't be dropping into coverage very often (neither should his replacement, Walden).

I think the biggest problem is with Jones and Walden, not necessarily with the DL.

[pbmax]

I take it that you think that Worthy and Daniels are misfits in Caper's 3-4? Do you include Perry in that assessment too? I think Perry is OK in the base D, although he shouldn't be dropping into coverage very often (neither should his replacement, Walden).

I think the biggest problem is with Jones and Walden, not necessarily with the DL.

I think its possible they are, esp. Daniels. And its Daniels who shined brightest this season. Worthy is big enough to be a DE in a 3-4, just not tall enough to disrupt a passing game or to get supreme leverage from his frame. But Jolly wasn't ideal sized either and he played great in base.

Each will need 2 years to show us what can they can do. My concern is that by splitting the D line depth into base versus pass rush, you are hurting your chances of developing a three down DE who can protect the LBs. Biggest upside here is a healthy Mike Neal.

Your point is well taken though. The total amount of talent is lower at LB. The biggest upside there is Perry, who is a conversion project, but one that has been done successfully before. And he is not lacking in size or pass rush, just coverage experience.

[Bossman641]

I think its possible they are, esp. Daniels. And its Daniels who shined brightest this season. Worthy is big enough to be a DE in a 3-4, just not tall enough to disrupt a passing game or to get supreme leverage from his frame. But Jolly wasn't ideal sized either and he played great in base.

Each will need 2 years to show us what can they can do. My concern is that by splitting the D line depth into base versus pass rush, you are hurting your chances of developing a three down DE who can protect the LBs. Biggest upside here is a healthy Mike Neal.

Your point is well taken though. The total amount of talent is lower at LB. The biggest upside there is Perry, who is a conversion project, but one that has been done successfully before. And he is not lacking in size or pass rush, just coverage experience.

What I don't understand is that Worthy was dropping weight during the season. I know most players wear down and lose weight, but I believe he was dropping it at the Packers' suggestions.

[3irty1]

What I don't understand is that Worthy was dropping weight during the season. I know most players wear down and lose weight, but I believe he was dropping it at the Packers' suggestions.

My guess is that Worthy's most special feature is his ability to get off the ball and they are tailoring his weight to optimize that. They are looking for someone besides Raji who can excel in 1-gap wrinkles.

[Guiness]

A-Rod dropping was a dream. It was unbelievable. Nobody could believe it. Looking back, everyone knows they were nuts for letting him go by them. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. To depend on things like that to happen in order to improve our football team would be unhealthy and unrealistic.

I agree that if he's there, you snap him up and laugh all the way home. I believe that with any player who's graded that highly. I don't care if another top ten QB falls to us (which I know won't happen this year), you grab his ass and be happy with what you've got.

It was and wasn't a dream. It turned out to be, but it's not like Rodgers was a sure thing that the other teams decided they didn't need. Even two years after the Pack drafted him he still didn't look great in TC. I remember reports of him throwing the ball high, bad mechanics, etc.

TT took a highly rated player that fell in the draft, and it came up roses. He did that another time (Brohm!) and it didnt' work out. To pretend that the NFL draft is anything other than the crap shoot these two picks were is misguided.

[sharpe1027]

I think its possible they are, esp. Daniels. And its Daniels who shined brightest this season. Worthy is big enough to be a DE in a 3-4, just not tall enough to disrupt a passing game or to get supreme leverage from his frame. But Jolly wasn't ideal sized either and he played great in base.

Each will need 2 years to show us what can they can do. My concern is that by splitting the D line depth into base versus pass rush, you are hurting your chances of developing a three down DE who can protect the LBs. Biggest upside here is a healthy Mike Neal.

Your point is well taken though. The total amount of talent is lower at LB. The biggest upside there is Perry, who is a conversion project, but one that has been done successfully before. And he is not lacking in size or pass rush, just coverage experience.

On the plus side, TT has had no aversion to drafting and signing a lot of D linemen, especially considering Caper's often only uses 2 DL and at most only uses 3.

I'm not sure the talent is lower at LBer once you factor in the injuries.

The starters should have been:

Matthews, Bishop, Hawk and (Perry/Walden?)
Vs.
Pickett, Raji and (Wilson/Neal/Worthy/Daniels?).

[woodbuck27]

Next year and the one after will be interesting in the evolution of this sort of an offense, to see if it peters out.

My gut tells me that while there seem to be a few QBs out there that can run, none of them will last long, or at at least play in that style of an offense long. You just can't expose someone with a QBs build to the pounding. Vick has laster longer than any one else at it. RGIII, I'm guessing, won't be doing much of it next year. So maybe Kaepernick lasts two seasons? Three? At the outside, I don't see him running around like that 5 years from now.

Talking heads bring up 'franchise QB' so often because stability at that position is important. You can't have that if you wear them out that fast.

Sure Guiness but what does our side do if we ever have to face such again?

I'll answer that as clearly as I see it now:

That likelihood ..... isn't likely.

Colin Kaepernick played a historic game 'statistically speaking'; that won't likely be duplicated in the next decade or two. It was 'the Perfect Storm' effect.

Colin Kaepernick supplied the shock value in that shocking game and 'one sided' result. It IMO wasn't the result that was shocking but moreso how Kaepernick's performance impacted that game. Our side didn't have an answer.

[KYPack]

My guess is that Worthy's most special feature is his ability to get off the ball and they are tailoring his weight to optimize that. They are looking for someone besides Raji who can excel in 1-gap wrinkles.

They basically all 1 gap, 31.

They only play 2 gap occasionally on the nose.

In this defense.

If it's here next year.

[woodbuck27]

They basically all 1 gap, 31.

They only play 2 gap occasionally on the nose.

In this defense.

If it's here next year.

Your best guess KY?

Is Dom Capers back in 2013 as our DC?

[KYPack]

Your best guess KY?

Is Dom Capers back in 2013 as our DC?

Yeah, I think he is back. Ya know, I really figured we were gonna win. Kid QB, first big playoff game, I thought he'd get rattled and do something stupid. Which he did, but my euphoria was brief.

Capers in general screwed up, To check that read offense, you've got to have some coverage of all 3 options. The run/dive, the QB run, & his pass options. Many times, that QB alley looked like I75 at 3 AM. Wide open. That "Daddy Long Legs" ain't real shy about running up that rush lane, either.

In general, I always figure those wild offenses are like gambling. Hopefully they hit a few, you get some turnovers and it evens out. Then your offense TCB's a few scores and you win.

Capers is as good a whipping boy as any, but I didn't see old comb-over back there trying to field that punt.

[rbaloha1]

Sure, but they weren't 2 years removed from a Super Bowl win when they started to clean house.


According to Sports Illustrated, the seahawks with ex packer exec Shenider changed 70 % of the roster from 2011 - 2012.

The defense needs similar type of retrenching.

[denverYooper]

Yeah, I think he is back. Ya know, I really figured we were gonna win. Kid QB, first big playoff game, I thought he'd get rattled and do something stupid. Which he did, but my euphoria was brief.

Capers in general screwed up, To check that read offense, you've got to have some coverage of all 3 options. The run/dive, the QB run, & his pass options. Many times, that QB alley looked like I75 at 3 AM. Wide open. That "Daddy Long Legs" ain't real shy about running up that rush lane, either.

In general, I always figure those wild offenses are like gambling. Hopefully they hit a few, you get some turnovers and it evens out. Then your offense TCB's a few scores and you win.

Capers is as good a whipping boy as any, but I didn't see old comb-over back there trying to field that punt.

Pretty sure that when teams were having issues with Tebow a bit last year, the Pats rolled in, Bill did that (covered the options), and assigned a guy to just blast Tebow every time no matter what. They ended up blowing it up pretty good twice. Denver's version wasn't anywhere near what San Fran had going but the idea was pretty similar.

I originally thought I didn't want a Pats-49ers superbowl but I'd be really interested to see what Hoody comes up with for a second meeting against that 9ers offense.

[Deputy Nutz]

It looks like Brad Jones had contain responsibilities and yet Matthews was still in on the play.

Mathews sucked in so bad by the fake it was sickening, Brad Jones didn't even respect the fake and ran into a block. It was piss poor by both of them.. Jone certainly didn't have contain he was free lancing.

[sharpe1027]

Mathews sucked in so bad by the fake it was sickening, Brad Jones didn't even respect the fake and ran into a block. It was piss poor by both of them.. Jone certainly didn't have contain he was free lancing.

You could be right. It just looked to me like Jones was focused on one thing and one thing only, Kap running to outside. He immediately jumps outside, before the fake hand off, and never even peeks at the RB. Matthews does the complete opposite.

Jones is a smart guy, I think he knew his assignment but just couldn't carry it out properly. Matthew's play seems to confirm that Jones had outside contain by design. It would also make some sense as Jones is a speedy SOB.

[woodbuck27]

Yeah, I think he is back. Ya know, I really figured we were gonna win. Kid QB, first big playoff game, I thought he'd get rattled and do something stupid. Which he did, but my euphoria was brief.

Capers in general screwed up, To check that read offense, you've got to have some coverage of all 3 options. The run/dive, the QB run, & his pass options. Many times, that QB alley looked like I75 at 3 AM. Wide open. That "Daddy Long Legs" ain't real shy about running up that rush lane, either.

In general, I always figure those wild offenses are like gambling. Hopefully they hit a few, you get some turnovers and it evens out. Then your offense TCB's a few scores and you win.

Capers is as good a whipping boy as any, but I didn't see old comb-over back there trying to field that punt.

Of course the 49ers have a strong team but like you I hoped that Jim Harbaugh's QB switch would backfire on him.

It didn't. End of story.

Well maybe not. There's breaking news that Aaron Rodgers wasn't 100%. That he was suffering multiple leg injuries. He didn't look right to me.

[pbmax]

You could be right. It just looked to me like Jones was focused on one thing and one thing only, Kap running to outside. He immediately jumps outside, before the fake hand off, and never even peeks at the RB. Matthews does the complete opposite.

Jones is a smart guy, I think he knew his assignment but just couldn't carry it out properly. Matthew's play seems to confirm that Jones had outside contain by design. It would also make some sense as Jones is a speedy SOB.

Jones got WAY too wide and Matthews spin move meant he was not in a position to help. Packers had no one in the alley to contain run had he gone between Jones and Matthews. Jones stayed blocked, which was the other problem.

I THINK this is the scrape the college guys talk about as an antidote to the read option. But Matthews was late, Jones not in postion and no safety was wide enough to fill. Only Gore was covered on this play.

I'll be interested in seeing what Falcons do with it, if they see it. As smartfootball said, this is not the same as the option Russell Wilson ran and he nearly beat them.

[sharpe1027]

He didn't just stay blocked, he didn't even stay on his feet. It was another example of why he is not a good inside LBer, he can't take on and shed blocks and is often out of position anyway.