Your 2013 Green Bay Packers

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers have some holes but are still the top of the class in the NFC North in 2013. The Vikings have gotten better on defense but offensively they are still a one trick pony. The Lions probably have the most talent but will remain an underachieving team under Schwartz. The Bears are under new coaching so I think they take a step back regardless who takes over.

Offensively the Packers will undoubtedly lose Greg. Jennings, and Don Driver. At this point they don't have anyone on the roster to take the place of Finley so he will stay at least through train camp. The Packers still have "Statmaster" Aaron Rodgers at qb. He is a top three chucker r in the league, but has now turned in two spotty playoff loses in two consecutive seasons. He will sign an extension some time in 2013 for close to 120 million and stay in Green Bay even longer than he should. He is elite, and even though he will lose important cogs to his success he will continue to lead this team to the playoffs. If fans trust Thompson then know that Thompson will go to the wall to find weapons for Rodgers.

The Packers will likely spend one or two picks in the upcoming draft on receivers. I don't expect a first round selection unless a highly rated tight end like Tyler Eifert drops to them in the first round. The Packers real need on offense is a durable running back that can attack defenses. Two names come to mind. The Packers could go with a pure runner like Eddie Lacy, or go with a back with an all around pedigree like Monte Ball. If Lacy eats up the clock in his 40 expect him to be a top 30 pick. Ball at best will be a low second, unless he drops a sub 4.5 at the combine. Wisconsin fans would love to see Ball in green and gold. Either would pair well with holdovers in Smith and Green. Green has shown some ability, and Who knows what the Packers have in Smith. Starks should be gone, and Benson will be gone, or should be gone.

The Packers offensive line is sort of in flux. The have two book end tackles that are just "ok" in Barklay and Newhouse. Both are suitable starters, but lets be honest better back ups. Sherod who hasn't shown a thing will be back after missing 2012 with a broken stick. Bulaga can't stay healthy, that hip isn't good, but he is an above average right tackle in the NFL. If the Packers drafted an offensive tackle in the higher rounds I wouldn't be surprised. Interior linemen is another story, Lang and Sitton are above average by NFL standards and will be locks to begin the season as part of the starting lineup. But EDS has only been given a small sample as a starter and for what he has given I would only use pencil to write his name down amongst the starters. The Packers could take a long hard look at Barrett Jones from Alabama. He has started every position along the offensive line and has excelled at each, he will be an offensive linemen with a high value to the offensive system where offensive linemen carry more value based on the multiple positions they can play.

Defensively the Packers can bring back everyone they choose to from a defense that hovered in the top half of all defenses in 2012. Most likely Charles Woodson will be cap causality at 10 million dollars. He might restructure and come back for a lower number. His play and injury concerns at this point in his career just don't equal 10 million dollars. He brings leadership to the defense and still has great instincts, but the athleticism just isn't there any more. His body just can't do the things his brain tells him to. The Packers have two young safeties in Jennings and McMillian, but both are shorter and haven't proved assignment sure in 2012. The Packers could look early in the draft to find Woodson's replacement. Burnett is fine at the other safety position, he is poor man's Nick Collins. The Packers should have one of the better cover units in the NFL with four corners that could be considered starters in Williams, Shields, House, and Heyward. The Packers probably won't address cornerback in the draft.

The Packers were thin all year at inside linebacker, losing both Bishop and Smith early to injury. Hawk had his best season in the Dom Caper 3-4 defense. It obvious now that Hawk will never live up to his billing as the 5th over all pick in the 2006 draft, but he held up and was steady in the run game, especially in the early and middle part of the year. Hawk isn't a player with enough instinct and fast twitch muscle to make plays consistently and without the help of defensive linemen taking up blockers. The worst thing about Hawk is that he is blockable. Most drafts don't have great depth at inside linebacker including this one. If Hawk is cut to save cap space expect to see Bishop and Smith start the year.

Outside linebacker is a key position in the 3-4. Mathews is one of the great players in the NFL right now. He is Kevin Green, LT type player off the edge. The Packers drafted nick Perry in the last draft and the kid showed a lot of promise working the line of scrimmage before getting his wrist mangled. He showed be back and he should be an anchor in the run game at the point of attack. Moses showed flashes considering he was in drafted, but he needs to get bigger, and study film in the off season to enhance his instincts. Walden is just a guy. I have never been impressed with him, simply he is a mental midget and can't do anything but rush up field. He is stiff and simply not worth another contract. Zombo is as equally bad. Packers need to improve their depth with athetic guys that can hold the edge , but also have the speed to beat the ball carrier to the sideline.

On the defensive line the Packers are no better off than at the end of last season. Pickett is broken down, Raji continues to play too many snaps, and Wilson can't move past the line of scrimmage on passing plays. Mike Neal has shown flashes as a pass rusher, but he needs to not be suspended or injured for an entire season. The guy is athletic, and has a tremendous build, but he needs for everything to click. The Packers spend an early pick on Worthy, but with a severe injury suffered at the end of the season it will take a remarkable comeback for him to be completely healthy at the start of camp. It is a shame because Worthy has the tools and ability to succeed in the NFL but he really needed this offseason to mature into an NFL quality defensive linemen. With Pickett nearing the end and Raji under performing the Packers might want to address getting a big body upfront. The good ones go fast in the NFL draft so the might have spend a first round pick for a quality player in John Jenkins, or Kwan Short from Prudue.

[red]

i don't know about drafting a running back high.

woodbuck mentioned in the other thread that we need a decent RB

i think we already have a decent RB, we just don't have a coach who knows how to use any running back. m3 said time after time that he needed to commit to the run, so we come out running, and doing it just fine, only to see him eventually give up on the run and start throwing non stop

if we had AP on this team, m3 would be sending him out on passing routes not handing him the ball

unless or until our coach actually changes his philosophy and not just talks about doing it, then i think any draft picks or money spent on a RB is just a waste

m3 is not the kind of coach that is gonna give any running back 2 or 300 carries a year

[Deputy Nutz]

If Thompson feels like the Packers need a talented back, I think McCarthy will get the message.

[red]

i don't know

thats a pretty thick fat head on that guy

[woodbuck27]

Thanks Deputy:

Read it and get it. Overall it's a solid assessment of where our team stands.

On Offense:

We need a backup QB.

We must stick with the basic need we have in the trench's. TT must upgrade our OL. That means 'NFL ready' early round pick (s) and / or look aggresively at a FA. The way that Aaron Rodgers plays QB he needs time.

I don't expect much will be done at the RB position. That position simply never seems to be a priority. We've got part time Starks and Green and 'the little man, big heart' Dujuan Harris. I will be surprized if Ryan Grant remains with us next season. He was an emergency move or insurance policy.

I hope that Ted Thompson can somehow retain WR Greg Jennings by whatever means possible. It doesn't matter that he may not be pleased being franchised. Greg Jennings is our NO. 1 WR, and we need his best services next season. That leaves Jordy Nelson, James Jones and Randall Cobb and we need to see someone else develop.

With all the TE's on the roster TT will hope that something works out there. JerMichael Finley. He has one more season to get it right or maybe he's traded.

On Defense:

I believe that TT will sit on our secondary. Allow another season of maturity. The problem I see with our present secondary is size and the physical qualities needed to handle the strongest WR's. Too bad they all can't tackle like Sam Shields. I see promise in Casey Hayward...a nice pick by TT.

If TT see's an opportunity to grap an outstanding FS in the draft; I hope he rings that bell. We need a solid, fast hard hitting man in the middle.

If TT is going to look for help at the LBer position in the draft he won't do so early. He might invest his top draft pick in a strong/fast man for the middle of our DL. A defensive lineman that can penetrate the backfield and certainly allow rest for BJ Raji, as that fella is going to burn out fast.

AJ Hawk isn't going anywhere. I have hope for Nick Perry and that adversity doesn't affect him next season. He needs to develop. There's concern that Desmond Bishop may not get it back together. Dezman Moses needs time. Brad Jones isn't popular but he trys hard and makes tackles. The rest...pffffft !

On the Sad News Front:

I agree that Charles Woodson needs to take a pay cut or leave. He's been a great acquisition for us. It may be goodbye to Charles Woodson and Donald Driver.

GO PACK GO !

[mraynrand]

who the hell is the RB Smith? You know, Brandon Saine will return next year to save the entire offense.

[Joemailman]

m3 is not the kind of coach that is gonna give any running back 2 or 300 carries a year

Grant had 312 carries in 2008 and 282 in 2009. It's kind of hard to do that when guys keep getting hurt. Packers had 5 different guys start at RB this year, and it was all due to injuries, not performance or offensive philosophy.

[mraynrand]

RBs in Green Bay are injury prone!

[King Friday]

Grant had 312 carries in 2008 and 282 in 2009. It's kind of hard to do that when guys keep getting hurt. Packers had 5 different guys start at RB this year, and it was all due to injuries, not performance or offensive philosophy.

Not too mention that McAllister carried the ball for seasons of 325 carries, 351 carries and 269 carries while MM was the OC in New Orleans.

Our RBs are horseshit. Anyone who claims that we have capable RB talent really hasn't watched enough NFL games that do not involve the Packers. The fact that a guy who was SELLING CARS can walk on our team in December and look better than anyone else did all year should speak VOLUMES to where our talent level at the position truly stands.

MM would run the ball if he had anyone worth a damn to hand off to. He doesn't...and that is squarely on TT, who places zero value on the RB position.

[mraynrand]

Do you think Stubby said: "Please oh please, TT, get me a RB?" and TT said: "I place zero value on the RB position so Fuck you" ? just asking

[King Friday]

Do you think Stubby said: "Please oh please, TT, get me a RB?" and TT said: "I place zero value on the RB position so Fuck you" ? just asking

No...Thompson said "I'll get you Cedric Benson 2 weeks prior to the start of the season". Which to me is the same as "I place zero value on the RB position"

[wist43]

What's needed for the Packers to improve is to get more physical offensive and defensive linemen, and to completely remake the Linebacking corp.

I don't expect either to happen. The Packers are a finesse team - that isn't going to change.

Capers is going to stay, so even if TT brought in some beef with attitude, Capers only wants 2 DL on the field at a time anyway - that isn't going to change. And on offense, MM has no interest in lining up in the I and running it down anybody's throat. Our running game is an afterthought function of the passing game and always will be.

As for the Linebacking corp, Perry and Bishop will be back and pencilled in as starters... Hawk is your other starter. Again, not much will change there either. Maybe they make a move with Hawk, but I doubt it... I fully expect our front seven to be misused by Capers again anyway.

TT will draft another 15 rookies; last year's draft class will be expected to step up and contribute more; and we'll be essentially the same team next year that we were this year - only younger.

The Packers have no interest in playing physical football on either side of the ball - that isn't going to change.

[wist43]

Why are you guys focusing on RB??

The Packers don't care about the position - and they don't draft OL that can run block. Running the football begins up front on the OL, and the Packers only care about pass pro - and they don't even do that well.

[Brandon494]

For someone who isn't a fan you sure do pay a lot of attention to the Packers. Please give me your outlook on the 2013 Jacksonville Jaguars next.

[Joemailman]

What's needed for the Packers to improve is to get more physical offensive and defensive linemen, and to completely remake the Linebacking corp.

I don't expect either to happen. The Packers are a finesse team - that isn't going to change.

Capers is going to stay, so even if TT brought in some beef with attitude, Capers only wants 2 DL on the field at a time anyway - that isn't going to change. And on offense, MM has no interest in lining up in the I and running it down anybody's throat. Our running game is an afterthought function of the passing game and always will be.

As for the Linebacking corp, Perry and Bishop will be back and pencilled in as starters... Hawk is your other starter. Again, not much will change there either. Maybe they make a move with Hawk, but I doubt it... I fully expect our front seven to be misused by Capers again anyway.

TT will draft another 15 rookies; last year's draft class will be expected to step up and contribute more; and we'll be essentially the same team next year that we were this year - only younger.

The Packers have no interest in playing physical football on either side of the ball - that isn't going to change.

In your opinion, are they significantly less physical now than they were 2 years ago when they (Gasp!) won the Super Bowl?

[wist43]

In your opinion, are they significantly less physical now than they were 2 years ago when they (Gasp!) won the Super Bowl?

Howard Green gave em just enough up front to get by; and as someone else stated in another thread, and I've tried to point out to you homers - the stars aligned, Rodgers got smoking hot, we got good matchups against other finesse and flawed teams, and it was enough to get us a championship.

The last 2 years have exposed the defense for what it is though... if you're happy with how the defense played the last two years, then congratulations - you've got the team you want.

[MadtownPacker]

I picture Nutz sitting at a desk with a bottle of whiskey and a pistol on his desk, typing this shit up.

[George Cumby]

I picture Nutz sitting at a desk with a bottle of whiskey and a pistol on his desk, typing this shit up.

You left out one critical element: he is clad only in his tighty-whities.

[hoosier]

For someone who isn't a fan you sure do pay a lot of attention to the Packers. Please give me your outlook on the 2013 Jacksonville Jaguars next.
That was actually an insightful writeup and you have to go and alienate the guy. Ingrate.

Minor correction: Worthy's injury is now being described as just a severe bruise and nothing that a month off won't cure. If we heard that during the season we would be right to be skeptical, but it's coming from the horse's mouth and there is no reason to conceal anything at this point.

Disagreement: Monte Ball is the product of a college offensive line that just might be better than the one in GB, at least at run blocking. And while I cannot see McThompson drafting any sort of RB in the first round, it is a fact that every year TT has broken one of his drafting tendencies, so who knows. My bet is that he takes the C from Alabama if he is still there.

[Joemailman]

I picture Nutz sitting at a desk with a bottle of whiskey and a pistol on his desk, typing this shit up.

I picture you under the desk.

[Bretsky]

I want TT to draft somebody who is nasty tough, and if that is on the OL I'm fine with that.

I think many of us overestimated this roster this year; we have more holes than can be filled via the draft.


Another year to trade down a few times to get several 2nd/3rd round guys unless a star falls.

I think Wist makes a lot of good points

[ThunderDan]

Let's look at next year before the draft:

OL: Newhouse, Lang, EDS, Sitton, Barclay, Sherrod, Bulaga, Van Rotten
WR: Cobb, Jones, Nelson. Ross, Boykins
TE: Crabtree, Finley, Williams, Taylor, Quarless
QB: Rodgers, Harrell
RB: Starks, Green, Harris, Kuhn (Benson)
DL: Pickett, Raji, Wilson, Neal, Worthy, Daniels
LB: Mathews, Perry, Walden, Zombo, Moses, Hawk, Jones, Bishop, Manning, DJ Smith
CB: Shields, Williams, House, Hayward, Bush
S: Burnett, Woodson, Jennings, McMillan
K/P/ST: Crosby, Goode, Mastay

[ThunderDan]

Looking at the above list it would nice to:
Get 1 more lineman, hopefully a long-term solution at C if EDS can't cut it
WR: Probably draft later and hope for a ST ace
TE: May need to be address if they let Finley go which I don't think they will
QB: Draft another late round development project
RB: Be nice to draft a early round guy who can compete for snaps in his 1st year
DL: Need one more big body and would be great to find a true 3-4 DE
LB: Cut the dead weight, draft an ILB stud early, draft an OLB rush project late
CB: I like our depth here
S: Draft early and often, Woodson may be gone and can improve on Jennings
K/P/ST: Get Crosby to a kicking specialist this offseason, the rest is fine

[wist43]

Don't get me wrong, I do like some of the young guys... I like Perry, Worthy, and Daniels; and Neal has finally showed up. Of course I've always like Raji... but, and it's a big BUT, none of those guys is really suited to play a more traditional 3-4.

Raji is wasted on the nose, IMO; Neal and Worthy should be okay in a DE rotation, but I'd prefer both of them as rushers on passing downs; Daniels is undersized for a 3-4, and should only be used in subpackages. Pickett is in decline.

Given that is what Capers had/has to work with, he needed/needs to use more 4 down linemen on passing downs, Rotate Raji and Pickett on the nose and Worthy and Neal at DE. Going to 2 DL and a nickle as often as he could only served to make an undersized, underpowered defensive front even more underpowered. You can get away with that against Jacksonville and Tennessee, but good offenses - power offenses are going to push you right off the field.

The Packers defense is built to play from ahead... we can't stand toe-to-toe with tough teams. We simply don't have the horsepower, only 1 true-2 gapper (Pickett), and aren't tough enough/athletic enough at Linebacker to compensate for the lack of horsepower on the line.

It's up to Capers to find a way to make the best of what he has. If we played Jacksonville every week, we'd be fine... if we played the 49'ers every week, I doubt we'd win a single game.

[LegandofthePack15]

DuJuan Harris will be the Packers' feature back in 2013. He will be the Packers' version of Maurice Jones-Drew. Bring back Benson to back up Harris. Turn Green into a bona fide 3rd down back. Quit playing Kuhn on third downs; the guy doesn't add anything to the passing game. Plus, what's the point of play Kuhn on 3rd downs when teams rarely blitz the Packers anymore?

Say no to Monte Ball. The guy is slower than Jerry Ball.

I say, in the first round, draft hot shot inside linebacker. Either trade up to draft that Notre Dame guy or stay put and draft another Nick Barnett (Nico Johnson?). In round 2 (assuming that Thompson doesn't trade up), draft a fast, hot shot, saftey. Even if the saftey is not hot shot, draft him anyway if he's extremely fast. Need a fast saftey to counter them new breed of running qbs.

Acquire Tim Tebow. Tebow would serve as a serviceable backup and help prepare the defense against them new breed of running qbs.

[George Cumby]

DuJuan Harris will be the Packers' feature back in 2013. He will be the Packers' version of Maurice Jones-Drew. Bring back Benson to back up Harris. Turn Green into a bona fide 3rd down back. Quit playing Kuhn on third downs; the guy doesn't add anything to the passing game. Plus, what's the point of play Kuhn on 3rd downs when teams rarely blitz the Packers anymore?

Say no to Monte Ball. The guy is slower than Jerry Ball.

I say, in the first round, draft hot shot inside linebacker. Either trade up to draft that Notre Dame guy or stay put and draft another Nick Barnett (Nico Johnson?). In round 2 (assuming that Thompson doesn't trade up), draft a fast, hot shot, saftey. Even if the saftey is not hot shot, draft him anyway if he's extremely fast. Need a fast saftey to counter them new breed of running qbs.

Acquire Tim Tebow. Tebow would serve as a serviceable backup and help prepare the defense against them new breed of running qbs.

Oh stop it.

I, who know nothing, would like to see D-line or LB taken early in the draft. Regardless of what position, I would like some nasty MFers to be drafted, some wild as shit sociopath to put the fear of God into the opposing team.

[LegandofthePack15]

Oh stop it.

I, who know nothing, would like to see D-line or LB taken early in the draft. Regardless of what position, I would like some nasty MFers to be drafted, some wild as shit sociopath to put the fear of God into the opposing team.

I thought you hated Suh? No? That guy is a sociopath on the field.

Thompson has drafted enough fat guys with high draft picks already (Harrell, Bulaga, Sherrod, Worthy, etc.). No more fat guys!

I am serious regarding Tebow. The guy would be awesome in a WCO. Plus, if McCarthy can turn Rodgers from throwing like a college qb into throwing a like a NFL qb, no reason he can't do the same with Tebow.

[digitaldean]

I want TT to draft somebody who is nasty tough, and if that is on the OL I'm fine with that.

I think many of us overestimated this roster this year; we have more holes than can be filled via the draft.


Another year to trade down a few times to get several 2nd/3rd round guys unless a star falls.

I think Wist makes a lot of good points

We need another Wayne Simmons....that guy was scary at times.

[Bretsky]

I thought you hated Suh? No? That guy is a sociopath on the field.

Thompson has drafted enough fat guys with high draft picks already (Harrell, Bulaga, Sherrod, Worthy, etc.). No more fat guys!

I am serious regarding Tebow. The guy would be awesome in a WCO. Plus, if McCarthy can turn Rodgers from throwing like a college qb into throwing a like a NFL qb, no reason he can't do the same with Tebow.


Well, except maybe Tim Tebow has a weak arm so he's unable to make many of the throws of an NFL QB

[SkinBasket]

Is there a cheaper version of Tim Tebow out there? Maybe Tim Couch is still serviceable? He's had a long rest.

[3irty1]

I agree that either Tyler Eifert or Barrett Jones are strong possibilities this year for the Packers. Personally I'd rather see Jones.

I strongly disagree with Monte Ball's prospects but agree this is the position that the packers have the most room for improvement. I hate the idea of counting on Harris to still be the hot hand come September.

I also disagree that we'd see a smith/bishop duo should AJ Hawk leave town. Hawk plays a different position than those two and Smith doesn't seem well suited as a replacement except maybe on passing downs. In this system Hawk is a fullback of the defense type player, I'm thinking Manning or Walden is the best system fit to take those duties.

[woodbuck27]

That was actually an insightful writeup and you have to go and alienate the guy. Ingrate.

Minor correction: Worthy's injury is now being described as just a severe bruise and nothing that a month off won't cure. If we heard that during the season we would be right to be skeptical, but it's coming from the horse's mouth and there is no reason to conceal anything at this point.

Disagreement: Monte Ball is the product of a college offensive line that just might be better than the one in GB, at least at run blocking. And while I cannot see McThompson drafting any sort of RB in the first round, it is a fact that every year TT has broken one of his drafting tendencies, so who knows. My bet is that he takes the C from Alabama if he is still there.

" That was actually an insightful writeup and you have to go and alienate the guy. Ingrate." hoosier

I applaud you for stepping up and slamming that poster for a clear insult.
It's 'prick-immature ' posts like that, that harm Packerrats and keep new posters away.

There is another way that seems to work here.

It's often prudent to ignore ..... ignorance. :!:

[woodbuck27]

I want TT to draft somebody who is nasty tough, and if that is on the OL I'm fine with that.

I think many of us overestimated this roster this year; we have more holes than can be filled via the draft.


Another year to trade down a few times to get several 2nd/3rd round guys unless a star falls.

I think Wist makes a lot of good points

Wist is certainly solid. It's often difficult to see 'the TRUTH'.

[woodbuck27]

DuJuan Harris will be the Packers' feature back in 2013. He will be the Packers' version of Maurice Jones-Drew. Bring back Benson to back up Harris. Turn Green into a bona fide 3rd down back. Quit playing Kuhn on third downs; the guy doesn't add anything to the passing game. Plus, what's the point of play Kuhn on 3rd downs when teams rarely blitz the Packers anymore?

Say no to Monte Ball. The guy is slower than Jerry Ball.

I say, in the first round, draft hot shot inside linebacker. Either trade up to draft that Notre Dame guy or stay put and draft another Nick Barnett (Nico Johnson?). In round 2 (assuming that Thompson doesn't trade up), draft a fast, hot shot, saftey. Even if the saftey is not hot shot, draft him anyway if he's extremely fast. Need a fast saftey to counter them new breed of running qbs.

Acquire Tim Tebow. Tebow would serve as a serviceable backup and help prepare the defense against them new breed of running qbs.

RE: Tim Tebow

** " help prepare the defense against them new breed of running qbs"


Hi.

I'm just smiling at your suggestion for TT to sign Tim Tebow as our backup QB ... but ** this part **:

Will Tim Tebow be :

A) a coach

B) a tackling dummy

C) both

[pbmax]

Given that is what Capers had/has to work with, he needed/needs to use more 4 down linemen on passing downs, Rotate Raji and Pickett on the nose and Worthy and Neal at DE. Going to 2 DL and a nickle as often as he could only served to make an undersized, underpowered defensive front even more underpowered. You can get away with that against Jacksonville and Tennessee, but good offenses - power offenses are going to push you right off the field.

Question: what does the front food look like in this pass D sub package on the front line? Is Matthews a stand up DE? And who are the one's for the other D line slots for pass rush?

[Pugger]

Grant had 312 carries in 2008 and 282 in 2009. It's kind of hard to do that when guys keep getting hurt. Packers had 5 different guys start at RB this year, and it was all due to injuries, not performance or offensive philosophy.

But I'm sure you will agree that MM abandoned the running game in the game last Saturday night. Harris was getting some decent yardage against that defense but for some reason he didn't touch the ball for a while in the second half. MM often just pays lip service to running the ball and I drives us fans crazy at times.

[Deputy Nutz]

Smith = Harris. Shows you what a merry go around the Packers backfield is.

Monte Ball is a much better runner in 2012 than what he was in 2011. His offensive line wasn't as good, but his ability to break tackles and keep his balance in the open field was almost 100% better. He is receiving threat out of the backfield, decent at blitz pick up, and can run through tacklers. He isn't going to be a burner, but few are. Again he runs a sub 4.5 he will go some where in the second round, if it is above a 4.5 I expect him to go in round 3

[woodbuck27]

Let's look at next year before the draft:

OL: Newhouse, Lang, EDS, Sitton, Barclay, Sherrod, Bulaga, Van Rotten
WR: Cobb, Jones, Nelson. Ross, Boykins
TE: Crabtree, Finley, Williams, Taylor, Quarless
QB: Rodgers, Harrell
RB: Starks, Green, Harris, Kuhn (Benson)
DL: Pickett, Raji, Wilson, Neal, Worthy, Daniels
LB: Mathews, Perry, Walden, Zombo, Moses, Hawk, Jones, Bishop, Manning, DJ Smith
CB: Shields, Williams, House, Hayward, Bush
S: Burnett, Woodson, Jennings, McMillan
K/P/ST: Crosby, Goode, Mastay

You want 'a Super Bowl caliber roster' ! Here's what I see today:

OUR OFFENSE:

OL: Lang, EDS (needs time to evaluate), Sitton, Barclay see EDS, Bryan Bulaga, Sherrod is still an unknown quality. Will he ever be ready?

This isn't by any means a Super Bowl quality OL. Unless this gets right the Packers will not win another Super Bowl.

This weekend pay attention to the OL on the San Francisco 49ers. There's an OL. How did the 49ers OL get there?

WR: Cobb ' a great season', Jones ' impressive improvement', but he received more targets, Nelson and his hammy bothers me. Ross and Boykins have no NFL experience.

We're thining out at the WR position and that's a key issue with an Aaron Rodgers led defense.

TT has to make a tough decision RE: Greg Jennings. He has to evaluate that decision based on Greg Jennings age and availability looking forward Vs the cost.

TE: Finley must return. Please pick 'just' two more 'inexperienced TEs', for our roster.

QB: Rodgers, Where's the Backup QB? Think...how is Aaron Rodgers at this season's end?

RB: Harris is realistically 'a situational RB'. He's a blast to watch play; Benson is worn out; Kuhn is Kuhn ... Starks and Green are at best 3rd string RB's.

OUR DEFENSE:

DL: Pickett is wearing down; Raji needs help and will not suvive long in our system without rest; Wilson should work best in rotation; Neal needs to be ready to play; Worthy and Daniels both need time to evaluate.

LB: Mathews by far our 'only' legitimate Pro Bowl player; Perry needs to develop; Walden is a backup at best; Zombo after showing promise in his first season, he's been injured the last two; Moses shows signs of being a player; Hawk will stay unless TT can use him in a value trade; Jones trys hard, Bishop may never be back right; Manning needs playing time to evaluate; DJ Smith - see Manning

We have overall for the 3-4 system need at this position.

CB: Shields is fast and gritty and gives it; Williams is already playing like Al Harris as he declined. He needs to be more disciplined in terms of confidence; House needs to get back healthy; Hayward was a solid draft pick..a player; Bush ... Is he such a need on ST's?

Overall our secondary plays small and will have trouble handling the best teams WR's.

S: Burnett ... I like him; Woodson has had an excellent run as a Packer; Jennings trys hard; McMillan needs time to learn/develop ...

Overall we certainly need more here ! We need 'a cracker jack' fast hard hitting approach to the safety position. Our 'D' must own the middle of the playing field.

K/P/ST: Crosby needs to stop playing with his own head, Goode is OK, Mastay is improving ... the group gets a passing grade at best

[3irty1]

Howard Green gave em just enough up front to get by; and as someone else stated in another thread, and I've tried to point out to you homers - the stars aligned, Rodgers got smoking hot, we got good matchups against other finesse and flawed teams, and it was enough to get us a championship.

The last 2 years have exposed the defense for what it is though... if you're happy with how the defense played the last two years, then congratulations - you've got the team you want.

"the team looks like the defense, and the defense looks like the inside linebacker." - Bob Diaco, Fighting Irish Defensive Coordinator

Just some food for thought. Think about the defenses you consider physical. SF (Willis & Bowman), Seattle (Bobby Wagner), Pittsburg (Timmons & Foote), Houston(Cushing, James), Chicago (Urlacher), Baltimore(Lewis, Ellerbe)

I don't think one should underestimate the impact of getting Desmond Bishop back, OR the impact of upgrading from a solid but unspectacular Hawk to someone with a little more presence inside. I have to say, "solid but unspectacular" is a pretty good description of our defense this year.

[pbmax]

"the team looks like the defense, and the defense looks like the inside linebacker." - Bob Diaco, Fighting Irish Defensive Coordinator

Just some food for thought. Think about the defenses you consider physical. SF (Willis & Bowman), Seattle (Bobby Wagner), Pittsburg (Timmons & Foote), Houston(Cushing, James), Chicago (Urlacher), Baltimore(Lewis, Ellerbe)

I don't think one should underestimate the impact of getting Desmond Bishop back, OR the impact of upgrading from a solid but unspectacular Hawk to someone with a little more presence inside. I have to say, "solid but unspectacular" is a pretty good description of our defense this year.

But there is a Cullen Jenkins effect there, don't you think? Sure, he's a better ILB than Jones or Smith (though Jones should stay the dime ILB) but he has been on the field for the Super Bowl run AND the collapse in 2011. he's impotent, but not season changing.

[Joemailman]

But there is a Cullen Jenkins effect there, don't you think? Sure, he's a better ILB than Jones or Smith (though Jones should stay the dime ILB) but he has been on the field for the Super Bowl run AND the collapse in 2011. he's impotent, but not season changing.

Do we really need to know about his private life?

[pbmax]

Do we really need to know about his private life?

Fair point. That was supposed to be on deep background.

[3irty1]

But there is a Cullen Jenkins effect there, don't you think? Sure, he's a better ILB than Jones or Smith (though Jones should stay the dime ILB) but he has been on the field for the Super Bowl run AND the collapse in 2011. he's impotent, but not season changing.

Yeah that's true but 2011 was more about giving up 3rd and long and Bishop is more about getting you to third and long. I agree with your sentiments about Jones, he's a better Chillar than Chillar ever was.

[Freak Out]

Can Tebow block? Pick up a blitz?

[Cheesehead Craig]

You left out one critical element: he is clad only in his tighty-whities.

Which are not so tighty and not so whitey

[Cheesehead Craig]

Smith = Harris. Shows you what a merry go around the Packers backfield is.

Monte Ball is a much better runner in 2012 than what he was in 2011. His offensive line wasn't as good, but his ability to break tackles and keep his balance in the open field was almost 100% better. He is receiving threat out of the backfield, decent at blitz pick up, and can run through tacklers. He isn't going to be a burner, but few are. Again he runs a sub 4.5 he will go some where in the second round, if it is above a 4.5 I expect him to go in round 3

+1 on this.

Ball had a much worse OL this year and became a better back. Nutz is dead on with his assessment here.

[Freak Out]

But is he injury prone?

[SkinBasket]

But is he injury prone?

Who isn't? I know, for instance, that your mother is prone to vaginal injuries.

[mraynrand]

I picture Nutz sitting at a desk with a bottle of whiskey and a pistol on his desk, typing this shit up.


I'm thinking more like:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gxUbvKKx2FI/UGUV9XC8gbI/AAAAAAAAAsw/olUtdxi64CI/s1600/ksm.jpg

[Freak Out]

Who isn't? I know, for instance, that your mother is prone to vaginal injuries.

You are just a little rough with the her....that's all.

[Freak Out]

I'm thinking more like:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gxUbvKKx2FI/UGUV9XC8gbI/AAAAAAAAAsw/olUtdxi64CI/s1600/ksm.jpg

I really like that open collar look.

[run pMc]

LOL Look at how hairy Saddam's back was.

[mraynrand]

LOL Look at how hairy Saddam's back was.

it's KSM

[run pMc]

As for the '13-'14 Packers

I think they need in an interior OL, WR, DE, DT, ILB, OLB, SS, and maybe a CB who can play zone coverage. I don't recall how many draft picks they get -- I'd think 8 or 9 -- so we'll see what gets addressed.

I think Driver, Jennings, and Saturday will be gone, Woodson and Benson are probably gone, and Hawk, Walden, Starks, and Finley are all 50/50.
As usual, guys towards the bottom of the roster like Boykins, Ross, Moses, Zombo, MD Jennings, et al. will have to fight to make the squad. G.Harrell should get pushed by Coleman for the #2 QB spot.
Sherrod will have to show something in camp or he's in danger of becoming the OL version of Justin Harrell in they eyes of many.

Some of the young players will make 'the leap' and some won't...Worthy's game was based on quickness and I worry about the knee injury affecting him there. If Perry can figure out the OLB spot then either Walden or Moses can be the backup - which is what they are. I have no idea if Terrell Manning can play ILB or not, if McMillian will avoid becoming Atari2.0, or if Datko can stay healthy and play OT. Feel free to jump in with your own observations.

Getting Bishop back will help the defense. Looking back at the losses (SF, SEA, NYG, MIN, SF) they were physical battles, and addressing that plus improving the depth (bigger, faster, better instincts) would make those closer battles.

[run pMc]

it's KSM

LMAO you're right. I got my crazy terrorists and dictators mixed up.

[SkinBasket]

LMAO you're right. I got my crazy terrorists and dictators mixed up.

Don't worry, it's just a product of your poor education.

[LegandofthePack15]

Monte Ball is a much better runner in 2012 than what he was in 2011. His offensive line wasn't as good, but his ability to break tackles and keep his balance in the open field was almost 100% better. He is receiving threat out of the backfield, decent at blitz pick up, and can run through tacklers. He isn't going to be a burner, but few are. Again he runs a sub 4.5 he will go some where in the second round, if it is above a 4.5 I expect him to go in round 3

Ball is slower than Jerry Ball. He's not gonna run sub-4.5 unless he's guided by 100 MPH wind. 4th-6th round pick.

If Thompson is going to draft an overrated Badger RB, wait til 2014 and draft James Fucking White. That guy is as fast as fuck.

[LegandofthePack15]

Well, except maybe Tim Tebow has a weak arm so he's unable to make many of the throws of an NFL QB

Don't underestimate the power of Tim Tebow.

[Bretsky]

My guess is Ball runs in the 4.62 area and goes mid third to mid fourth; I'd still be game for him in GB

[Iron Mike]

I picture Nutz sitting at a desk with a bottle of whiskey and a pistol on his desk, typing this shit up.
[QUOTE]I'm thinking more like:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gxUbvKKx2FI/UGUV9XC8gbI/AAAAAAAAAsw/olUtdxi64CI/s1600/ksm.jpg[/QU
OTE]



He cleans up well, though:

http://bp3.blogger.com/_hf2Yudeh7dg/Rfo1aK-X3QI/AAAAAAAAAUA/7bx-1C1-ML0/s400/ksm.jpg

[Cheesehead Craig]

Ball is slower than Jerry Ball. He's not gonna run sub-4.5 unless he's guided by 100 MPH wind. 4th-6th round pick.

If Thompson is going to draft an overrated Badger RB, wait til 2014 and draft James Fucking White. That guy is as fast as fuck.

But White can't break a tackle to save his life. Ball is more agile, stronger and just has a knack of gaining yards after contact. Fantastic vision as well.

White is still going to be a backup next year as Gordon gets the starting nod.

[mraynrand]

what a collection of pathetic homers here. Monte Ball, lol.

[Deputy Nutz]

what a collection of pathetic homers here. Monte Ball, lol.

I like Ed Lacy as well

[woodbuck27]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/187329981.html

Packers need more help on the DL

By Tom Silverstein of the Journal Sentinel Jan. 17, 2013 12:55 p.m

" The Packers are perfectly happy with B.J. Raji and Ryan Pickett anchoring two of their positions upfront and they like the contribution that C.J. Wilson made in the running game.

But they do not have the tall, long-armed defensive end that most good 3-4 defenses possess. It showed against the 49ers when they were unable to hold the edge against Minnesota RB Adrian Peterson and to some degree San Francisco QB Colin Kaepernick,

The Pittsburgh Steelers value 6-5, 285-pound end Brett Keisel as much as anyone on their defensive front. Before that, they had one of the best 3-4 ends ever in 6-5, 298-pound Aaron Smith. The Arizona Cardinals, another 3-4 team, feel 6-8, 300-pound Calais Campbell anchors their defense.

"I think we’d like to get a little taller guy, someone with more length in there," defensive line coach Mike Trgovac said. "

GO PACKERS !

[RashanGary]

Nice write up, Nutz. . . .



If I had one other hole, outside the ones you listed, I think we need a super-stud in the middle of our defensive back 7. Either a safety or ILB would be my #1 hope in the draft. If we had a Nick Collins or a Patrick Willis, Kaepernick doesn't go off the way he did last week. As good as Kaepernick is, I really believe Collins would have made clean tackles on him every time. A guy like Willis would too.

I like Bishop, and am excited to have him back, but I want some speed in there too, someone who can clean up in the open field against the best offensive weapons.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/187340381.html

A look at the wide receiver culture in Green Bay

By Tyler Dunne of the Journal Sentinel Updated: Jan. 17, 2013 2:08 P.M.

".... it appears ** the Packers are ready ** to absorb the loss of Greg Jennings in free agency.

The Packers can go into the 2013 optimistic in James Jones, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson and tight end Jermichael Finley leading the passing game. That's still one of the strongest receiving quartets in the NFC. The team seems high on Jarrett Boykin and Jeremy Ross, and -- if history is any indicator -- don't be surprised if the Packers draft a wide receiver fairly high in April. After loading up at wide receiver his first four years, Thompson has taken one (Randall Cobb) the last four.

Quite possibly, the Packers don't realize how much they miss Jennings until he's gone. He's been the big-play threat Green Bay can line up anywhere on the field. Yes, the Packers won a lot of games without him in 2012. But they won a Super Bowl with him in 2010. Losing Jennings permanently could be a bigger loss than outsiders realize. " Fr. LINK

** http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/maintaining-pattern-of-success-vb8dkan-187239981.html

PACKERS !

[SavedByGrace]

I don't have enough knowledge of football to know what you look for in a 3-4 D, but I do agree that we need some pass rush help (Nick Perry?) and some help at DE. Would it be prudent to go after a guy who could fill both needs, i.e. Ezekiel Ansah or Margus Hunt?

[Pugger]

But White can't break a tackle to save his life. Ball is more agile, stronger and just has a knack of gaining yards after contact. Fantastic vision as well.

White is still going to be a backup next year as Gordon gets the starting nod.

I like Gordon better than White too.

[woodbuck27]

I don't have enough knowledge of football to know what you look for in a 3-4 D, but I do agree that we need some pass rush help (Nick Perry?) and some help at DE. Would it be prudent to go after a guy who could fill both needs, i.e. Ezekiel Ansah or Margus Hunt?

Nice to see you.

Ezekial Ansah:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=91923&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE

Margus Hunt

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=103696&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE

Both of these fellas started out as raw and developed extremely well according to the above DRAFT SCOUT Reports. There are posters here that will comment further as they see your post.

[rbaloha1]

Nice to see you.

Ezekial Ansah:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=91923&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE

Margus Hunt

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=103696&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE

Both of these fella started out as raw and developed extremely well according to the above DRAFT SCOUT Reports. There are posters here that will comment further as they see your post.

Hunt is a beast and is worthy of a late # 1 pick. Excellent upside with phenomenal strength.

Also like Leroy Butler's suggestion of moving Nick Perry inside.

[Joemailman]

I don't have enough knowledge of football to know what you look for in a 3-4 D, but I do agree that we need some pass rush help (Nick Perry?) and some help at DE. Would it be prudent to go after a guy who could fill both needs, i.e. Ezekiel Ansah or Margus Hunt?

Ansah isn't big enough to play DE in a 3-4. He'd play OLB if the Packers drafted him. Hunt would be a DE.

[Old School]

I'm intrigued with Hunt. In one of the bowl games they ended up blocking him with three men tokeep him from killing the QB. He's fairly new to football but has a huge wingspan and some uncanny athletic qualities. He might have a high cieling.

I'm no football expert,but he really stood out in that one game I saw him. He is exactly the long athletic body the Pack needs as a DE.

[LegandofthePack15]

I like Ed Lacy as well

I like Zac Stacy better. And that's not b/c its rhymes with "Lacy."

[George Cumby]

Hunt is a beast and is worthy of a late # 1 pick. Excellent upside with phenomenal strength.

Also like Leroy Butler's suggestion of moving Nick Perry inside.

Ooh. Hunt would be nice, based on what little I know.

Perry inside as a thumper? Me likey.

[LegandofthePack15]

But White can't break a tackle to save his life. Ball is more agile, stronger and just has a knack of gaining yards after contact. Fantastic vision as well.

White is still going to be a backup next year as Gordon gets the starting nod.

White doesn't need to break tackles. He can outrun tacklers. That's how fast James White is.

Ball is like a Anthony Davis clone. If the hole isn't there, Ball runs into a wall and falls down. Contrary to your belief, Ball is no agile horse nor does he posses Superman vision.

[Iron Mike]

Hunt is a beast and is worthy of a late # 1 pick. Excellent upside with phenomenal strength.


http://nepatriotsdraft.pixafy.netdna-cdn.com//wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Margus-Hunt.jpg

Holy shit, he's white, too. Could be our Jared Allen/Justin Smith-type DL guy.

[RashanGary]

Smith = Harris. Shows you what a merry go around the Packers backfield is.

Monte Ball is a much better runner in 2012 than what he was in 2011. His offensive line wasn't as good, but his ability to break tackles and keep his balance in the open field was almost 100% better. He is receiving threat out of the backfield, decent at blitz pick up, and can run through tacklers. He isn't going to be a burner, but few are. Again he runs a sub 4.5 he will go some where in the second round, if it is above a 4.5 I expect him to go in round 3


A month or two ago, I heard some scouts had him as the best back in the draft. It only takes one team.

I'd take him in a heartbeat over what we have now.

[RashanGary]

A guy like that Margus Hunt, with that length. You'd think it would take him a full year or two to grow into that body. Long term, he looks like a really high potential type player. I like that the youtube clips show all of his snaps rather than just highlights. You get to see how he plays down in and down out. I like his discipline. He stays home. I like his speed and his rush. He's going to have to get a lot stronger though. He'll have to add weight and pure strength if he's goign to do it against NFL tackles. He's also the body type, he's going to need to be a technician too. With that length, it takes time to really learn how to gain leverage. It's harder for long guys to do that. . . He could be a beast though. JJ Watt might be the best overall DL since Reggie White. There are 6'6" guys who come into the league every year at 300lbs. None of them, ever, put up sack numbers like White did, until Watt. I'd hold my horses waiting for that type of guy. They're a once in a couple decade talent.

Everyone is looking for the next Watt now. Those long, 3-4 DE types are going to fly off the board. Problem is, almost none of them pan out, and none of them pan out like Watt, well except Watt. Let everyone overdraft those guys. It's the sexy thing to do. They'll all fail.

[SavedByGrace]

I refer back to my previous post about not knowing a ton about the 3-4 D, or even about football in general (I'm trying to learn) but I did watch Hunt's play on youtube against Texas A&M, and I was not impressed. Yes, I know that often he was matched up against Joeckel. His length showed in his special teams play, no doubt. But it didn't look like he had much of a motor. I throw out this name only as a point of comparison, but when I watched the play of Ezekiel Ansah, you could tell Ansah had a much higher motor. Both Hunt and Ansah are about the same size but Ansah uses it better. I realize these guys are at a premium, but would it be wise for the Packers to burn a 1st round pick on Hunt? Right now it seems like a serious reach. Second round, maybe. By the way, let's just stay away from Ball. If we went RB, I'd go Lacy all day.

[smuggler]

Don't forget, when Jennings leaves, he turns into a late 3rd round draft pick.

[pbmax]

Don't forget, when Jennings leaves, he turns into a late 3rd round draft pick.

I think that is the latest Motion Picture reboot of Cinderella as well.

[smuggler]

Except, hopefully for Jennings, he will remain a carriage and earn lots of money from other teams far past midnight.