has our window already closed?

[red]

2 years ago after our super bowl win, most people said that we were a dynasty in the making. great qb, great offense, lots of young talented players

we haven't been back in two years.

i'm wondering if we've now starting the down tread already.

we're already looking straight in the face of more cap issues. we're gonna have to let our top WR walk because we just can't fit him in cap wise. the leader and heart and sole of the offense (driver) will probably retire. finley may or may not be gone.

on the other side of the ball. we lost a great player in collins last season, and now we might lose the heart and sole of our defense (woodson). on top of that we have a lot of young guys that just haven't advanced the way we thought they wood. raji is not the world beater, neal hasn't been there, tramon is a shadow of his former self, and burnett is no collins. other then mathews and bishop the lb's have been a joke

now to the cap hell part. we're already losing jennings. in another year or two we're gonna have to pay cobb big money too. also in another year jordy and jones are gonna need to get paid better if they keep their play up. bulaga is gonna need a big raise after next season. raji needs a raise, mathews needs an extension. i think sitton and a-rod both need more money soon

so has our superbowl winning window already closing? have we now turned into the favre packers of the late 90's and early 00's where we make the playoffs every year but don't win the big one again?

[Cheesehead Craig]

My window's closed. It's friggin' cold outside.

[sharpe1027]

The next 2-3 years will define whether TT can make maintain what he started. The decision to keep Driver this year was a popular move with fans, but it does worry about being able to make the hard decisions.

I think the need to sort out the O-line or the offense will remain inconsistent.

[Pugger]

As long as we have #12 and #52 we have a chance. All we have to do is accumulate a few more blue chip players and some speed and we should be alright.

[mraynrand]

The decision to keep Driver this year was a popular move with fans, but it does worry about being able to make the hard decisions.

seriously? The Driver decision was a sign of TT losing it? DD just had to be better than #53 on the roster, and even then, they probably kept him around for locker room cohesion. I've got an idea: How about we discuss this in a new thread titled: "Donald Driver"

TT drafted for a new defense last year. The question is whether they can get to Superbowl caliber and uptick the offense from a sluggish year. Be nice to have a the same RB behind the same line and a QB throwing to the same receivers the whole year.

[red]

As long as we have #12 and #52 we have a chance. All we have to do is accumulate a few more blue chip players and some speed and we should be alright.

i was worried about that

for about 15 years we said "as long as we have #4 we can win it". well we only won that one with him too. i can see some similarities between that team and this team. both went on a slow decline after the super bowl win

[mraynrand]

I feel confident that TT will not be drafting to "Win now" like the Packers did for close to five years with Favre under Sherman. TT seems to build the whole team. A superbowl win will depend on getting a healthy team together and having a few guys go blue chip - like Cobb, Perry and Hayward, and getting a bunch of other guys to go solid - like Burnett, Jennings, House, Sherrod/Bulaga/Barclay, EDS, Worthy, Neal, God's Gift, and a couple this year's draft picks, including a WR. Maybe need a FA winner, like Woodson or Pickett. And stay healthy for shit's sake.

[Smeefers]

If Driver had one last year in him, we would have been applauding TT for keeping him. He looked fine in training camp, he just slowed down way to much and stopped getting separation. Not to mention every other reciever on our team playing out of their minds. 3 receivers with +60 catches. 3 receivers with +700 yards. There's not a lot of teams that can say that and I don't think TT saw that coming. Who would of thought JJ would lead our team with 14 Touchdowns? Anyone? Sure as shit not me and I like the guy.

As for the window closing, I don't think it closes until you can't get into the playoffs. Teams show it year in and year out that all you need to do is get in and be playing your best ball at that time and you can go to the big dance. Yes, life is going to get difficult for the team in coming years. We're going to have to let major star power go. That's why the draft is so important. Every time I hear people say "win now," all i hear is "loose later." You see teams that beef up for their super bowl rush and sacrifice their future. I'd rather be in the playoffs every year, then blow our load to have a slightly better shot at getting to the super bowl. The patriots are a perfect example of this. Every year they're playoff teams and every year teams are scared of them. Just because they haven't won in a long time doesn't mean they won't win this year, or next year, or the year after that because you know what? I know they're going to be in the playoffs and that they're going to have a shot at the title.

[mraynrand]

Oh, and can we get a Cushing/Willis type ILB to beat the shit out of people?

[Bossman641]

i was worried about that

for about 15 years we said "as long as we have #4 we can win it". well we only won that one with him too. i can see some similarities between that team and this team. both went on a slow decline after the super bowl win

One thing TT has shown is that he will keep the weapons stockpiled for Rodgers. I'm the first to admit that the WR depth behind Nelson, Jones, Cobb will be nowhere near where it was this year, but I'm confident TT will pick up another decent WR.

[mraynrand]

One thing TT has shown is that he will keep the weapons stockpiled for Rodgers. I'm the first to admit that the WR depth behind Nelson, Jones, Cobb will be nowhere near where it was this year, but I'm confident TT will pick up another decent WR.

Ross actually looks like a physical stud. I don't know if he can catch the ball, but he blocked well, and was becoming a beast on special teams (not counting punt returns). TT can draft players; just need enough of them to gel all at once and it's Superbowl, baby!

[Bossman641]

Ross actually looks like a physical stud. I don't know if he can catch the ball, but he blocked well, and was becoming a beast on special teams (not counting punt returns). TT can draft players; just need enough of them to gel all at once and it's Superbowl, baby!

I agree that physically he looks the part. The fact that he only had 764 receiving yards in his college career has me skeptical though.

[mmmdk]

i was worried about that

for about 15 years we said "as long as we have #4 we can win it". well we only won that one with him too. i can see some similarities between that team and this team. both went on a slow decline after the super bowl win

I understand Pugger but I'm with red; it'll be difficult to even reach a second SB let alone win one more!

[sharpe1027]

seriously? The Driver decision was a sign of TT losing it? DD just had to be better than #53 on the roster, and even then, they probably kept him around for locker room cohesion.

I didn't say anything about TT losing it, but I hope he doesn't make a habit of keep aging Vets that do not contribute on the field. I am not sure that keeping DD made the team any better. He contributed virtually nothing on the field all year. This despite injuries to both Jennings and Nelson. By the end of the year he was not better than the #53 on the roster, he was inactive for 2 of the last three games when it counted the most.

I'm not sure how many wins this year are the result of DD locker room cohesion, so you may have a good point.


I've got an idea: How about we discuss this in a new thread titled: "Donald Driver"

TT drafted for a new defense last year. The question is whether they can get to Superbowl caliber and uptick the offense from a sluggish year. Be nice to have a the same RB behind the same line and a QB throwing to the same receivers the whole year.

Did I broke the forum rules by mentioning a specific example that supports a minor concern? Driver is one of my all-time favorite players and I think TT has done an outstanding job to this point. But I like the Packers organization more than I like Driver and I don't think he earned his spot this past year. That is ultimately TT's decision.

[woodbuck27]

My window's closed. It's friggin' cold outside.

:wink:

[pbmax]

I agree that physically he looks the part. The fact that he only had 764 receiving yards in his college career has me skeptical though.

Sounds like he could be the new fifth TE.

[mraynrand]

... But I like the Packers organization more than I like Driver and I don't think he earned his spot this past year. That is ultimately TT's decision.

you make a good argument, but ultimately it's for the 53rd spot on the roster. I just don't see it being all the critical, unless you think there is some negative symbolism there or something. I don't see it becoming a habit; Stubby and TT seem willing to IR guys and move people up until they get guys who can perform. Maybe you or Patler know of a guy that we passes on either to sign to the PS or sign to the 53 that got the shaft because Driver was there. I suppose that's possible. Who would know? Maybe some Packer players will talk about the lockerroom/leadership aspect of Driver. in any case, it didn't get them a championship, so in that respect it failed.

[red]

One thing TT has shown is that he will keep the weapons stockpiled for Rodgers. I'm the first to admit that the WR depth behind Nelson, Jones, Cobb will be nowhere near where it was this year, but I'm confident TT will pick up another decent WR.

TT has to keep drafting as well as we think he has in the past, even though he's starting to lose some of the other guys that he's put together.

and i say as good as we think he has, because lets be honest, a lot of his draft picks we have no clue about because they can't stay healthy enough to get on the field

its my feeling that we've just blown our best two chances to repeat and its only going to get harder from here on out

[sharpe1027]

you make a good argument, but ultimately it's for the 53rd spot on the roster. I just don't see it being all the critical, unless you think there is some negative symbolism there or something. I don't see it becoming a habit; Stubby and TT seem willing to IR guys and move people up until they get guys who can perform. Maybe you or Patler know of a guy that we passes on either to sign to the PS or sign to the 53 that got the shaft because Driver was there. I suppose that's possible. Who would know? Maybe some Packer players will talk about the lockerroom/leadership aspect of Driver. in any case, it didn't get them a championship, so in that respect it failed.

Yeah, the Driver decision itself likely did not make too much difference. Would having guys like Ross activated sooner made much difference? Probably not. The thing is, we don't know because they kept Driver. Keeping Driver was safe and popular but it had zero upside.

There is a similar decision coming up with guys like Pickett and Woodson. It is not just keeping a young unknown player off the team, but also the cap space they eat up.

[woodbuck27]

As long as we have #12 and #52 we have a chance. All we have to do is accumulate a few more blue chip players and some speed and we should be alright.

Then you'll be picking the 49ers to win the Super Bowl this season with nine (9) Pro Bowlers.

Think 2010 and that Super Bowl.

We still had two decent and very experienced Vet OT's in C. Clifton and M. Tauscher.

We had a solid center. The OL was pretty darn good. GONE !

We had an emerging RB playing very well in James Starks. He cannot seem to stay healthy; and he's so far showing up not that solid every down RB we need to take the pressure off our QB. Think Ray Rice in Baltimore.

We had 'a top of his game', CB Charles 'Ballhawk' Woodson and the same with Nick 'Crusher' Collins at FSGONE ! and Chuck appears GONE!

We had OLman like Desmond Bishop and Eric Walden stepping up. Both may be GONE!

WE saw a fast emerging CB Tramone Williams. His play has fallen off and his finesse game seems lacking.

We had two legitimate Pro Bowl players in Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews. We're now learning the real impact of all that pressure and those sacks on Aaron Rodgers. He's been playing injured since mid December.

Clay Matthews is a concern with his trick hammy.

Where our WR's were emerging in 2010. That core of WR's was arguably the best in the NFL entering th 2012 season. We saw a dramatic fall off due to injury etc. to that same core of WR's as this year progressed.

There is more negative. Look at our DL with regards to BJ Raji (too much playingtime on our DL and in need of 'a big man', to spell him before he burns out) and an aging Ryan Pickett.

Others may add more negatives based on our last Super Bowl season compared to the now.

Ted Thompson has his plate full. He'll work hard to eat it all up.

GO PACK GO !

[red]

bishop is gone?

how?

[King Friday]

When did Lambeau get a roof?

[Brandon494]

... But I like the Packers organization more than I like Driver and I don't think he earned his spot this past year. That is ultimately TT's decision.

True because look how well Gurley balled out for his team this year...oh wait.

[Brandon494]

I mean seriously I feel like half of the posters on this board don't even pay attention to the rest of the NFL out side of the Packers. Rodgers isn't even 30 yet and our window has closed? Give me a @#$%ing break!

[rbaloha1]

As long as #12 is healthy the window remains open.

However over the last 2 years, the window has been lowered.

[Brandon494]

i was worried about that

for about 15 years we said "as long as we have #4 we can win it". well we only won that one with him too. i can see some similarities between that team and this team. both went on a slow decline after the super bowl win

Rodgers > Favre

MM isn't jumping ship like Holmgren

Clay Matthews is still in his prime unlike Reggie White

Also how is going 15-1 going on a slow decline after a SB win? Not to mention we should have been 12-4 this season.

Exactly what similarities do you see again?

[Brandon494]

As long as #12 is healthy the window remains open.

However over the last 2 years, the window has been lowered.

No it hasn't, some of you just set that bar too high thinking we were going to win it every year. Its the NFL, not the NBA.

[Freak Out]

Has Walden been cut yet? Has Slocum been fired? If not this team is fucked.

[MadtownPacker]

This thread is obviously the overreaction of a moron. Yeah season ending losses suck and we got lots to bitch about. But to say the window is closed is dumb shit. TT has to stock the cupboard some but the core is there. This won't be the last coulda woulda shoulda postseason.

[MadtownPacker]

Rodgers > Favre

MM isn't jumping ship like Holmgren

Clay Matthews is still in his prime unlike Reggie White

Also how is going 15-1 going on a slow decline after a SB win? Not to mention we should have been 12-4 this season.

Exactly what similarities do you see again?
That still hasn't been decided.

He might get fired before he gets a chance.

He is great. He is still no Reggie.

You're right, lots of pages left to write.

Like you said, shoulda been 12-4. Thats probably what he meant. Because we are talking about opportunity lost.

[MadtownPacker]

No it hasn't, some of you just set that bar too high thinking we were going to win it every year. Its the NFL, not the NBA.You aint no damn Negrito!! What fun is it to not think you're gonna win it all?

[MadtownPacker]

My bad I locked the thread on accident.

[Bretsky]

I have to admit last year everything seemed aligned to repeat until we got our asses kicked in the trenches by the Giants. I think we're stocked fine for another sporadic run but I'd be surprised with a dynasty with many of these NFC teams ascending.

[red]

you assholes do realize that there is a question mark at the end of the thread title right?

i was asking if, not saying, the window is closing

bunch of jackoffs

[mraynrand]

I think the window is closed on Donald Driver. But it's still open for Tori Gurley. He can jump out any time now.

[denverYooper]

I have to admit last year everything seemed aligned to repeat until we got our asses kicked in the trenches by the Giants. I think we're stocked fine for another sporadic run but I'd be surprised with a dynasty with many of these NFC teams ascending.

Meh. That's how the league goes these days. The best you can hope for is competence in the front office and coaching staff, and Green Bay has that in spades. They took the most injured team (according to Starter Games Lost) in the league, played arguably the toughest division this year (NFC West), won a division over 2 other pretty good 10-6 teams, and went to the divisional round of the playoffs.

That's some fine work if you ask me.

Sure, the Patriots look great beating up on the JV squads in the AFC East but they were 1-3 against the NFC West, got handed a 2 seed because of conference-wide suck and beat a team that would have placed 4th in the NFC North to get to the AFC title game. Now they have to face the Ravens, who might beat Green Bay 3 out of 10 times. Oooo. Not saying they're not a good team, but come on. Chances are they make the Superbowl and get rolled by the NFC again.

There was a batch of years there where Brady was being planted on his ass by the Ravens and Steelers when they were in their primes. Guess what? The NFC West is the new AFC North and whoever makes it through the NFC for the next couple of years has run the gauntlet to make the dance.

San Fran *might* be set for a few years but I'd like to see how they fare with their tackles, top 6 RBs, TE, and half of their defense needing surgery before I'd make that judgment. Hell, they lost their best DL and promptly started getting bludgeoned, so based on the law of small sample sizes they'd look like complete trash.

The Giants? They won 2 on the bookends of a 5 year span. According to my math, the Packers have another year to bomb out before they rise again if they want to match that.

We are in the post dynasty era.

And that is exactly what the NFL wants.

[sharpe1027]

True because look how well Gurley balled out for his team this year...oh wait.

The point is that similar choices are coming up with guys like Woodson and Pickett. What TT does will likely have a bigger impact this time around.

[Tony Oday]

Best QB in the NFL, Stud OLB, Good DBs that are young, a team that won without Woodson, WR corp that did well with injuries this year. Those are positives. ILBs hit by the injury bug need a stud there, Perry going out hurt the OLBs. The O line got crushed by injuries but with TWO 1st round Tackles coming back there will be good competition there next year. RBs are what they are and nothing that special but they just need to know how to block and get 80 yards a game. Throw in a kicker and this is a good team that is REAL young.

[packrulz]

A loss like that is hard to swallow, but we were tied in the 3rd quarter, and the interception (ARod) and the fumble (Ross) cost us the game. I think the Packers had a remarkable season winning the division in spite of all the injuries. I hate to lose the good old vets but you can't pay everyone 10 million a year. Good up and comers like Cobb, Heyward, Barclay, Harris, and even Neal, Perry, and Ross have me optimistic for next year.

[Patler]

Is their window closing? I doubt it, but it can slam shut at any time with a couple poor drafts. It looks like 2012 could be one of their better drafts in a while, so that will help keep them in contention for a few years.

For the window to be closing, parts of the team need to be in decline. I don't see that, with the possible exception of WR.

QB - Rodgers is young, and it's all about the #1 anyway
OL - very young group, guards are signed, 3-4 capable tackles. It can be improved, but isn't in decline.
RB - haven't had much here anyway, so again it isn't in decline.
TE - frankly, disappointing as a group, but they won the SB without much from the position anyway.
WR - have had 4 good ones for long time, but may be down to three next year. Does need reinforcement.

DL - not a great group, could use improvement, but young except for Pickett and not in decline.
LB - has been a weak spot. Could show some improvement if young ones develop, Bishop returns, Matthews stays
DB - the luster is off with Collins gone, Woodson old & Williams in decline. But, there is better depth here than they have had in years. Always need more, but as a group should be OK.

ST - Masthay seems like a long term answer, Goode too. I think Crosby will be OK too, but you never know for sure. He could be a problem than needs replacement.

This isn't a team that is head and shoulders above the crowd, but it wasn't in 2010 either. As bad as the defense was in 2011, we all suspected that the 15-1 record was a bit of luck. I see this team as more in a state of hold as a viable contender, but not in decline. In the NFL that can change quickly, in either direction. They should stay in contention as a team with a shot at the SB, which is all they were in 2010. It won't be THE favorite to win, but how often does THE favorite from either conference win it anyway?

The Packers biggest problem may be that they will continue to have good competition from all teams in the NFC North.