Salary Cap Visualizations

[pbmax]

Spotrac provides the numbers, the Guardian made the interface.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/interactive/2013/jan/30/nfl-salaries-team-position?CMP=twt_gu#san-francisco-49ers,green-bay-packers

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/salcapvis_zpsccc743d1.png

[mraynrand]

Money talks, bullshit walks

[QBME]

Spotrac provides the numbers, the Guardian made the interface.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/interactive/2013/jan/30/nfl-salaries-team-position?CMP=twt_gu#san-francisco-49ers,green-bay-packers

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/salcapvis_zpsccc743d1.png

Wow - great find.

[red]

so, why did we not use that last 10 million in cap space to bring in some help when it became clear our d and o-line were in trouble?

maybe we are cheap?

[Deputy Nutz]

Those numbers are going to drastically change when the Packers give Rodger 120,000,000

[Guiness]

Bucks are top spender on O? That didn't work out for them!

edit: top position they spent $$$ on? Guard at $29 million! Carl Nicks makes $14.8, I didn't know there was a guard in the league that made that, unless he's a reformed LT!

[Patler]

so, why did we not use that last 10 million in cap space to bring in some help when it became clear our d and o-line were in trouble?

maybe we are cheap?

Because they will probably give it to Rodgers this year.

[pbmax]

I think the cap numbers left for teams might be affected by the roster considerations of the visuals. Because I believe I have read multiple times that the Packers have $7.5 million in cap room to push forward to next year. Its possible not every waived player, IR member or dead money recipient is on this page.

[ThunderDan]

Isn't 127.4M over the cap?

[red]

Isn't 127.4M over the cap?

i think that takes into account money that wasn't used the season before that got rolled over into this year

just like we have 10 or 7 million in cap space left right now that will roll over into next year. basically raising our cap number by that much

patler can correct me if i'm wrong anywhere

[rbaloha1]

so, why did we not use that last 10 million in cap space to bring in some help when it became clear our d and o-line were in trouble?

maybe we are cheap?

TT is too frugal -- relies too much on street free agents rather than getting quality proven free agent players.

[mraynrand]

TT is too frugal -- relies too much on street free agents rather than getting quality proven free agent players.

like Nnamdi Asomugha!

[Joemailman]

like Nnamdi Asomugha!

Albert Haynesworth

[Smeefers]

TT is too frugal -- relies too much on street free agents rather than getting quality proven free agent players.

:beat: Ya don't say.

[rbaloha1]

like Nnamdi Asomugha!

What about Charles Woodson?

[denverYooper]

:beat: Ya don't say.

We need an emoticon where the the smiley goes Prince Yusupov on the horse.

[rbaloha1]

Albert Haynesworth

You mean Ryan Pickett

[mraynrand]

What about Charles Woodson?

what about him?

[rbaloha1]

what about him?

figure it out for yourself.

[denverYooper]

This is getting deep.

[run pMc]

Albert Haynesworth

Joe Johnson

[run pMc]

i think that takes into account money that wasn't used the season before that got rolled over into this year

It was my understanding that the salary cap worked that way. Don't know the specifics, but I'd think there was some kind of Daniel Snyder clause where a limit existed to prevent an owner from going cheap on his roster for several years and then going absolutely bonkers for one year to land every good free agent.

[run pMc]

This is getting deep.

well in fairness Pickett and Woodson have worked out pretty good. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Guiness]

well in fairness Pickett and Woodson have worked out pretty good. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

FA is pretty much the same as playing this game


http://www.ildado.com/craps_rules.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSgUxxl_tJU

[pbmax]

It was my understanding that the salary cap worked that way. Don't know the specifics, but I'd think there was some kind of Daniel Snyder clause where a limit existed to prevent an owner from going cheap on his roster for several years and then going absolutely bonkers for one year to land every good free agent.

There is/was a salary floor, a cap number that must be carried by a team. The new CBA introduced the idea of a cash minimum, where first the League and then the individual teams needed to spend X on player contracts in a given season. I don't remember if the new cash minimum supplemented the old cap floor or replaced it.

But teams can now move salary cap space into the next year by simply notifying the League office. Not sure if there is a maximum on that.

[Guiness]

There is/was a salary floor, a cap number that must be carried by a team. The new CBA introduced the idea of a cash minimum, where first the League and then the individual teams needed to spend X on player contracts in a given season. I don't remember if the new cash minimum supplemented the old cap floor or replaced it.

But teams can now move salary cap space into the next year by simply notifying the League office. Not sure if there is a maximum on that.

I don't remember there being mention of a maximum carry-over. The cap 'floor' comes back this fall, set at 89% of the cap.

The league-wide minimum was set to 99% of the total cap, with shortfalls going "directly to the players." I'm not sure what that means...does it go to the NFLPA to be distributed? Under the old system (and soon to be new system) shortfalls were distributed to players on that team. How does it work when the accounting is on a league wide basis? I'd be interested to know more about that given that I doubt the league made that number. 99% of $120million means just over 1 million left over, and most teams like to leave that much wiggle room in case they have to sign players during the year.

[3irty1]

Those visualizations would be cooler if each blob was for the actual player that would be standing on it instead of spread across the position category.

[Joemailman]

There is/was a salary floor, a cap number that must be carried by a team. The new CBA introduced the idea of a cash minimum, where first the League and then the individual teams needed to spend X on player contracts in a given season. I don't remember if the new cash minimum supplemented the old cap floor or replaced it.

But teams can now move salary cap space into the next year by simply notifying the League office. Not sure if there is a maximum on that.

http://www.askthecommish.com/SalaryCap/faq.aspx

In terms of minimum salary for each team, the salary floor is 89% of the cap. However, that does not start until 2013. Hence, there is in essence no salary floor in 2011 or 2012. (Note this point, as there is plenty of misinformation about this running rampant in the press!)

Amount of carryover and cap space availability for 2013:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8822266/nfl-mailbag-carryover-rules-impact-cap-strategy

2013 Cap Space
Team Carryover Total space
Arizona $3.6M -$723,000
Atlanta $307,000 $4.9M
Baltimore $1.2M $15.7M
Buffalo $9.8M $20.6M
Carolina $3.6M -$11.8M
Chicago $3.2M $13.3M
Cincinnati $8.5M $55.1M
Cleveland $14.3M $48.9M
Dallas $2.3M -$18.2M
Denver $11.5M $18.5M
Detroit $486,000 -$1.1M
Green Bay $7M $7.1M
Houston $2.4M $12.9M
Indianapolis $3.5M $46M
Jacksonville $19.5M $22.1M
Kansas City $14M $16.1M
Miami $5.3M $35.8M
Minnesota $8M $16.1M
New England $5.6M $18.6M
New Orleans $2.7M -$14.7M
NY Giants $1M -$4.7M
NY Jets $3.4M -$19.4M
Oakland $4.5M -$4.5M
Philadelphia $23M $5.2M
Pittsburgh $758,000 -$10.8M
San Diego $995,000 $8.7M
San Fran $859,000 $3.9M
Seattle $13.2M $18.6M
St. Louis $247,000 $1.8M
Tampa Bay $8.5M $31.3M
Tennessee $12.8M $19.4M
Washington $4.2M -$4M

The Packer number does not reflect the retirement of jeff Saturday, which I believe clears up 3.8 million.

[Guiness]

[snip...]

Amount of carryover and cap space availability for 2013:


Cool list, tx. Surprised to see Philly's huge carryover number, I thought they'd still be in hell after the 'dream team' mess. Considering what Vick and alphabet make, is it any wonder the team was in the dumps this year? The average salary after discounting those two guys couldn't have been much above the minimum! Their number next year is low though, I wonder what hits their cap.

I wonder how that carryover affects the league-wide miminum? The average carryover is WAY over $1million, so the league should have to fork over a significant amount of money to the players.

[Joemailman]

Looks like Cincinnati (55.1M under cap), Cleveland (48.9 million), and Indianapolis (46 million) will either be active in free agency, or they'll be renegotiating some contracts.

[mraynrand]

figure it out for yourself.

don't I at least get a hint?

[mraynrand]

Joe Johnson

John Jefferson

[pbmax]

Frank Walker

[mraynrand]

Frank Walker

Frank Winters

[rbaloha1]

Joe Johnson

Your boy Sherman picked him not TT.

Keep grasping.

[rbaloha1]

well in fairness Pickett and Woodson have worked out pretty good. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

For some reason your broken clock is only right once per day.

[rbaloha1]

don't I at least get a hint?

Nah -- ask an incestuous rat for a hint:-o

[denverYooper]

For some reason your broken clock is only right once per day.

Maybe it's on military time.

[rbaloha1]

Maybe it's on military time.

Touche

[run pMc]

Your boy Sherman picked him not TT.

Keep grasping.

LOL that's not fair. We all know TT doesn't sign FA's ;-)

How about the law firm of Hargrove, Muir, and Merling?
Granted not big gambles, but I think we can agree that FA is hit-or-miss, and certainly not a panacea. Not to say the draft is either, but it's usually cheaper.

[rbaloha1]

LOL that's not fair. We all know TT doesn't sign FA's ;-)

How about the law firm of Hargrove, Muir, and Merling?
Granted not big gambles, but I think we can agree that FA is hit-or-miss, and certainly not a panacea. Not to say the draft is either, but it's usually cheaper.


My point is impactful free agents not role players free agents that are similar to street free agents. The current mode is not adding enough of the right type of players to play the defensive schemes properly.

[mraynrand]

My point is impactful free agents not role players free agents that are similar to street free agents. The current mode is not adding enough of the right type of players to play the defensive schemes properly.

Does TT control injuries?

TT brings in Injury Prone defenders! :lol:

[Guiness]

Does TT control injuries?

TT brings in Injury Prone defenders! :lol:

Can't mention Woodson without remembering who was apparently the Pack's first choice in FA that year - LaVar Arrington! He chose the Giants (apparently the Pack offered his the same money) played 6 more games on broken down knees and was done. Bullet dodged!

[Smeefers]

Oh dear God, we're actually talking about this again.

Simply put, there are many ways to skin this cat. Some GM's go out into the free agent market to find talent. Some stay, for the most part in house. When we were extremely short on talent, TT went out and spent some cash to get some names here. Getting Pickett and Woodson gave us a chance to get into the playoffs. Plus we had boatloads of cash after unloading a ton of horrible contracts the previous administration had on the books. Before that, our team was falling apart. We are no longer anywhere near that situation, so there's no need to over pay for any player. No need what so ever. The only players you're going to find in free agencey are overpriced players or, if you're lucky, fairly priced roll players. Brandon Chiller is a great example of this. These are the guys TT is going to bring in.

For every story out there where a GM breaks the bank to pick up some awesome free agent that ends up putting them over the edge to win the big game, like the packers did with Beebe and Rison (and even those were only 1 year contracts), there's 5 warning stories about teams that fell on their face. Remember when the Cowboys sold the farm for Roy Williams? What about when the Falcons sold theirs to get Julio Jones? Just because you make a splash, doesn't mean you're winning the super bowl. Normally, teams that put too much stock into one player end up paying the price later.

The packers aren't going to have that problem, unless of course Arod goes down. He gets a career ending injury and the packers are in the toilet for the foreseeable future. Other than that, we're built to compete for the super bowl for years. The cost of pushing to far in free agency is that if you fail, in the future, you won't be built to compete because now you're saddle bagged with an inflated contract and now you can't afford to give a raise to all those other pretty good players you had around him, so they take a walk to find better cash elsewhere. The second you splurge in free agency you're saying; "We have to win now, because in a couple years we're going to be crap."

I don't think anyone has a problem with TT spending serious cash on a short term contract. For example, if Steven Jackson or Dwight Freeny were brought on with a 2 year contract, I don't see anyone shedding any tears. But what about Jake Long (OT)? Often injured but top tier talent? You're not getting a short contract with that name and the bucks are going to be big. What about Randy Starks (DT)? That kid is a beast (also from Miami), but would require some pretty big cash too. Who are you willing to let go in order to grab one of these guys now? What happens to your depth? How does it effect the big contracts you have coming up?

It's not that I wouldn't love to sign Anthony Spencer or Shawn Phillips, it's just that I don't think we can make that big splash again without it hurting our future more than helping it.

[rbaloha1]

Does TT control injuries?

TT brings in Injury Prone defenders! :lol:

Something is not working the past 2 seasons in terms of a roster capable of beating top teams.

What is your solution?

[hoosier]

Something is not working the past 2 seasons in terms of a roster capable of beating top teams.

What is your solution?

First, draft and develop. Second, maintain some perspective. Last year the Packers were capable of beating everyone they played, and they just picked the wrong week to lay an egg. This year's loss to San Fran could be a sign that they've been surpassed in the NFC. Or things could look very different next time they meet, assuming the Packers have everyone healthy and prepare better for what Kaepernick can do.

[rbaloha1]

First, draft and develop. Second, maintain some perspective. Last year the Packers were capable of beating everyone they played, and they just picked the wrong week to lay an egg. This year's loss to San Fran could be a sign that they've been surpassed in the NFC. Or things could look very different next time they meet, assuming the Packers have everyone healthy and prepare better for what Kaepernick can do.

What happens if the same scenario happens next year?

[Guiness]

What happens if the same scenario happens next year?

If if if. If my aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle.:talk:

[rbaloha1]

If if if. If my aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle.:talk:

Maybe she is.

What is your solution?

[ThunderDan]

This is the exact same shit that RB pulled during 2010. After we won the SB that year it was fun bumping post after post after post.

ARod can't win the big game blah, blah blah. Just wait until we have to play ATL blah, blah. We will get beat by CHI in CHI blah blah. MM was lucky he sucks and can't win close games blah, blah, blah. TT sucks and doesn't get us any talent blah, blah blah.

OOOPPPS! GB won the Super Bowl, I knew we would all the time.

[KYPack]

The big lesson in FA has been that the high dollar vet FA's are essentially fool's gold. There are some good deals in the vet FA market. To me, TT has snared two of the best that came up in recent years in Wood and Ryan Pickett.

Dan Snyder has yet to get a great vet FA in all his years of fishing for one. London Fletcher ain't bad, but Haynesworth seems to be the norm in DC.

The only big ticket vet FA that helped his team win the SB is still Reggie White.

Or am I forgetting somebody?

Most of the time, you are better off setting out the FA market.

[rbaloha1]

This is the exact same shit that RB pulled during 2010. After we won the SB that year it was fun bumping post after post after post.

ARod can't win the big game blah, blah blah. Just wait until we have to play ATL blah, blah. We will get beat by CHI in CHI blah blah. MM was lucky he sucks and can't win close games blah, blah, blah. TT sucks and doesn't get us any talent blah, blah blah.

OOOPPPS! GB won the Super Bowl, I knew we would all the time.


That is right. According to Peter King MM's job was on the line if he failed to make the playoffs.

During 2010 I was for letting go MM if he failed to make the playoffs and replace him with the Stanford hc Jim Harbough.


MM won the super bowl.

What is your solution?

[rbaloha1]

The big lesson in FA has been that the high dollar vet FA's are essentially fool's gold. There are some good deals in the vet FA market. To me, TT has snared two of the best that came up in recent years in Wood and Ryan Pickett.

Dan Snyder has yet to get a great vet FA in all his years of fishing for one. London Fletcher ain't bad, but Haynesworth seems to be the norm in DC.

The only big ticket vet FA that helped his team win the SB is still Reggie White.

Or am I forgetting somebody?

Most of the time, you are better off setting out the FA market.

It is case by case. The 49ers got 2 mid level ones is Rogers and the safety. Snyder misused it.

Anyone have a list the rats can examine?

[esoxx]

The big lesson in FA has been that the high dollar vet FA's are essentially fool's gold. There are some good deals in the vet FA market. To me, TT has snared two of the best that came up in recent years in Wood and Ryan Pickett.

Dan Snyder has yet to get a great vet FA in all his years of fishing for one. London Fletcher ain't bad, but Haynesworth seems to be the norm in DC.

The only big ticket vet FA that helped his team win the SB is still Reggie White.

Or am I forgetting somebody?

Most of the time, you are better off setting out the FA market.. Drew Brees

[pbmax]

. Drew Brees

Dante Culpepper.

[rbaloha1]

Dante Culpepper.

Rich Gannon

[Patler]

Interesting coincidence this year for the juxtaposition of expensive free agent (Matt Flynn) vs draft pick (Russell Wilson). I know it is virtually irrelevant, with the failure rate of draft picks so high, Wilson still having to prove himself not to be another Rick Mirer, and Flynn still having the chance to be very successful. But interesting nonetheless.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The only big ticket vet FA that helped his team win the SB is still Reggie White.

Reggie and Deion Sanders are the ones that come to mind. Just like FAs are often fool's gold, there are some FAs that work out. We aren't going to break the bank on FAs. Not with Rodgers and Matthews coming up for new contracts, but it would be nice to dabble in the Woodson/Pickett market. Of course, the Packers tried that market with Saturday, and it didn't work out. I believe in the philosophy that the Packers have established. There are other good franchises that have similar philosophies (the Steelers come to mind). It's interesting to see the Vikings switch to this philosophy and immediately pass the Bears (who spend big money on other team's players) in the division. More than anything, I'd like to see a good draft and some good health. I have hopes that the likes of Perry, Bulaga, Bishop, Smith will help as much as any FAs the team could sign.

[rbaloha1]

Interesting coincidence this year for the juxtaposition of expensive free agent (Matt Flynn) vs draft pick (Russell Wilson). I know it is virtually irrelevant, with the failure rate of draft picks so high, Wilson still having to prove himself not to be another Rick Mirer, and Flynn still having the chance to be very successful. But interesting nonetheless.

Valid point.

The RW situation demonstrates the brilliance of Pete Carroll and ownership not forcing Flynn to be the starter.

The jury is still out on Flynn's ability as a starter but from a contractural perspective it was a bad signing.

[pbmax]

Valid point.

The RW situation demonstrates the brilliance of Pete Carroll and ownership not forcing Flynn to be the starter.

The jury is still out on Flynn's ability as a starter but from a contractural perspective it was a bad signing.

Wilson is a 3rd round pick making peanuts. And Flynn did not break the bank at all in FA. The Seahawks cap and contract structure at QB is better than about 28 teams right now plus top flight talent at starter and backup.

The only reason Flynn will be leaving is to reduce tension since he is not going to get to start absent a Wilson injury.

[Bretsky]

The big lesson in FA has been that the high dollar vet FA's are essentially fool's gold. There are some good deals in the vet FA market. To me, TT has snared two of the best that came up in recent years in Wood and Ryan Pickett.

Dan Snyder has yet to get a great vet FA in all his years of fishing for one. London Fletcher ain't bad, but Haynesworth seems to be the norm in DC.

The only big ticket vet FA that helped his team win the SB is still Reggie White.

Or am I forgetting somebody?

Most of the time, you are better off setting out the FA market.


Many ways to skin a cat. The year the Saints won it there had some mid level FA signings if I recall that worked out very well. SF also has a couple
I don't know we need a Superstar. But most of us think we have more holes than the draft and returned injured players can fill
So I'm hoping TT might fill some gaps by signing a couple free agents....mid tier....not Reggies....but well above the quality of the Hargroves

[KYPack]

I mentioned Wood in the second sentence, Mr 8-way.

I wasn't being sarcastic, who's an impact high dollar vet FA that has radically improved their team? Peppers helped the Bears, but nobody has gotten their team a Lombardi, that i can think of.

[Bretsky]

I mentioned Wood in the second sentence, Mr 8-way.

I wasn't being sarcastic, who's an impact high dollar vet FA that has radically improved their team? Peppers helped the Bears, but nobody has gotten their team a Lombardi, that i can think of.

yes...I reread and modified my post.........8 way........not what would be DAM FUN. 7 chix. Almost have a gal a finger......lol

[ThunderDan]

Just when we say TT won't do something he does. He surprises us every year. I wouldn't be surprised if this is another one of those years.

Seems like a lot of teams are up against the cap so a lot of above average players will be out there driving down the price.

[Bretsky]

I mentioned Wood in the second sentence, Mr 8-way.

I wasn't being sarcastic, who's an impact high dollar vet FA that has radically improved their team? Peppers helped the Bears, but nobody has gotten their team a Lombardi, that i can think of.


So what you are saying......really.........is............we haven't won a dam SB since the 60's without a high priced free agent signing on our team ........ :)

[KYPack]

So what you are saying......really.........is............we haven't won a dam SB since the 60's without a high priced free agent signing on our team ........ :)

Yeah, sorta.

The only guy that was signed as a vet FA that really elevated his ballclub after Reggie, is Peyton Manning this year. & we wouldn't have signed him anyhow.

It's fool's gold, I'll tell ya!

[pbmax]

Rich Gannon

Sean Gilbert.

And Rich Gannon, FA before Oakland, got booted by the Chiefs for Elvis Grbac.

[rbaloha1]

Sean Gilbert.

And Rich Gannon, FA before Oakland, got booted by the Chiefs for Elvis Grbac.

Justin Smith, Ahmad Brooks

[KYPack]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

[rbaloha1]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

Marshall Faulk

[KYPack]

Marshall Faulk

Trade.

A #2, BTW. good trade.

For St Loo.

[rbaloha1]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

Ken Norton

[rbaloha1]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

Doug Williams

[rbaloha1]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

Terrell Owens

[rbaloha1]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

Randy Moss

[esoxx]

Dante Culpepper.

My post stating Drew Brees was simply in answer to KY's question if he had missed any impact FA that helped their team win the SB. As the QB, I can't think of any FA that had a bigger impact to his team and victory in the ultimate game. Even moreso than Reggie.

I know you're trying to make a point, that I do and don't understand, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use me as a pawn.

[esoxx]

:lol:

[rbaloha1]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

Charles Haley

[rbaloha1]

Hey hey hey.

High Dollar FA's that got their team to the SB.

Brees? Yes

These others, no.

Brooks, Gannon and Justin Smith weren't high dollar.
Brooks was signed for the waiver price.

Gilbert, signed with Wash was traded to Carolina. That trade pretty much got Capers fired from Carolina.

Alvin Harper

[rbaloha1]

My post stating Drew Brees was simply in answer to KY's question if he had missed any impact FA that helped their team win the SB. As the QB, I can't think of any FA that had a bigger impact to his team and victory in the ultimate game. Even moreso than Reggie.

I know you're trying to make a point, that I do and don't understand, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use me as a pawn.

What do you expect -- imbeciles breeding imbeciles:trll:

[pbmax]

Justin Smith, Ahmad Brooks

Brooks was a waiver claim.

[pbmax]

Doug Williams

If you count being unemployed because the USFL folded, then OK. But a lot of the guys you are now mentioning were not high dollar at all (Moss signed a short contract for less than market value). So you have rather proved KY's point by hitting the bottom of the barrel so fast.

[KYPack]

Alvin Harper

Charles Haley Trade (Under strange and adverse conditions, to be sure)
Moss was a trade a couple times, waiver FA a couple more
TO ? Sheee-it!

Harper? SB winner for Dal, then became one of the worst FA signs of all time. Harper is what the "Fools Gold" warning is all about.

[pbmax]

Charles Haley Trade (Under strange and adverse conditions, to be sure)
Moss was a trade a couple times, waiver FA a couple more
TO ? Sheee-it!

Harper? SB winner for Dal, then became one of the worst FA signs of all time. Harper is what the "Fools Gold" warning is all about.

Oh, I missed that KY, good get. Harper was drafted by Dallas, where he won a Super Bowl or two. As a FA, he was a disaster in Tampa Bay.

Good to see rb get to the bottom of this issue so quickly. There have been so few big money FA signings that led to a Super Bowl, that rb can't get past a single page of posts before running out of examples.

[rbaloha1]

Oh, I missed that KY, good get. Harper was drafted by Dallas, where he won a Super Bowl or two. As a FA, he was a disaster in Tampa Bay.

Good to see rb get to the bottom of this issue so quickly. There have been so few big money FA signings that led to a Super Bowl, that rb can't get past a single page of posts before running out of examples.

James Washington

[rbaloha1]

Adam Vinateri

[rbaloha1]

Rod Woodson

[rbaloha1]

Shannon Sharpe

[rbaloha1]

Trent Dilfer -- okay big stretch

[rbaloha1]

Plaxico Burress

[rbaloha1]

Darren Sharper

[rbaloha1]

Gary Plummer

[rbaloha1]

Rickey Jackson

[rbaloha1]

Scott Fujita

[rbaloha1]

Sean Jones

[rbaloha1]

Eugene Robinson

[rbaloha1]

Bill Romanowski

[rbaloha1]

Jerry Rice

[rbaloha1]

Charlie Garner

[rbaloha1]

Brad Johnson

[rbaloha1]

Simeon Rice

[rbaloha1]

Antonio Pierce

[rbaloha1]

Santana Dotson

[Guiness]

What do you expect -- imbeciles breeding imbeciles:trll:

Ya, that's about enough. Fuck off and don't call pbmax an imbecile - for making well constructed posts that illustrate his point.

You've WAY more than worn out your welcome with a large portion of the posters here. You're trolling, purposely being an ass and trying to rile up the posters that know what they're talking about. Bigguns was a better poster than you, he knew his shit and could hold his own.

It'd be nice if you'd just shut the fuck up, but I highly doubt it, you're probably going to giggle away that you finally got well under someone's skin. On to my ignore list you go, and I hope like hell MTP tires of you before you chase others away.

[Guiness]

Sean Gilbert.

And Rich Gannon, FA before Oakland, got booted by the Chiefs for Elvis Grbac.

What was it with Grbac? He must've looked like a hell of a QB. He got Gannon booted, then Balt tossed Dilfer in favour of his right after his SB win! Elvis, as far as I can tell, accomplished pretty much nothing.

[KYPack]

What was it with Grbac? He must've looked like a hell of a QB. He got Gannon booted, then Balt tossed Dilfer in favour of his right after his SB win! Elvis, as far as I can tell, accomplished pretty much nothing.

He left the building, G.

RB, those guys are the equiv of Wood & Pickett.

Value guys, not particularly high dollar.

James Washington was a plan B, for instance.

If there is a James Washington available, I'd sign him if I was TT.

The NFL is the Moneyball league now.

Our GM will buy value and doesn't get fooled by flash, while managing the cap. We got enough problems signing our own for the next few years. We've drafted some real monsters. Now, we gotta feed 'em.

[rbaloha1]

He left the building, G.

RB, those guys are the equiv of Wood & Pickett.

Value guys, not particularly high dollar.

James Washington was a plan B, for instance.

If there is a James Washington available, I'd sign him if I was TT.

The NFL is the Moneyball league now.

Our GM will buy value and doesn't get fooled by flash, while managing the cap. We got enough problems signing our own for the next few years. We've drafted some real monsters. Now, we gotta feed 'em.

Braddah KY,

My whole point is TT needs to be more aggressive in fa to fill holes.

Agree about the value guys -- starters not roster players.

[rbaloha1]

He left the building, G.

RB, those guys are the equiv of Wood & Pickett.

Value guys, not particularly high dollar.

James Washington was a plan B, for instance.

If there is a James Washington available, I'd sign him if I was TT.

The NFL is the Moneyball league now.

Our GM will buy value and doesn't get fooled by flash, while managing the cap. We got enough problems signing our own for the next few years. We've drafted some real monsters. Now, we gotta feed 'em.

What young pups are you refering to in the front 7?

[Guiness]

He left the building, G.

RB, those guys are the equiv of Wood & Pickett.

Value guys, not particularly high dollar.

James Washington was a plan B, for instance.

If there is a James Washington available, I'd sign him if I was TT.

The NFL is the Moneyball league now.

Our GM will buy value and doesn't get fooled by flash, while managing the cap. We got enough problems signing our own for the next few years. We've drafted some real monsters. Now, we gotta feed 'em.

Left the building with no hardware in tow! Dilfer with an SB ring, Gannon with an MVP award. Gannon would've had the SB ring as well if Callahan hadn't thrown it for his friend Gruden (channeling my inner Tim Brown here :eyes:)

[run pMc]

So the Packers lost to the Super bowl champ Giants and Super Bowl runner-up 49ers in the divisional playoffs...it sucks, but I bet Jacksonville fans would trade with us any day.

If this thread really is about the salary cap, IMO the team is better off trying to sign CM3 and Rodgers to extensions. Raji probably, depending on the draft. I don't think there will be a whole lot of cap room leftover for high or mid-level free agent signings, and it's not TT's MO anyway, so I'm not sure why it's much of a discussion point. Nobody thinks GB will have cap room to sign Jennings.

If you draft and develop, you teach your guys to play in the system & draft new players if they can't or go elsewhere for the money. A FA signing is always a risk because the coaches don't know the player's practice habits and can't be sure if they're a perfect fit for the system. Not saying drafting reveals that with 100% accuracy, but if you guess wrong it's usually a less costly mistake.

Sometimes FA works, sometimes it doesn't. I think that's trite enough.

[mraynrand]

James Washington

Washington Carver

[Guiness]

The NFL is the Moneyball league now.



An (mostly?) unmentioned player in this thread is James Jones.

I agree with you that it's a moneyball league - so what do you do with that guy? If he's our #2 WR and starts off strong next year, he's going to be a bear to hold on to.

[Zpark93]

What would our cap situation be like if Nick Collins was still on the roster? Seems like it would he a tight fit trying to sign our guys if he was still around

[mraynrand]

An (mostly?) unmentioned player in this thread is James Jones.

I agree with you that it's a moneyball league - so what do you do with that guy? If he's our #2 WR and starts off strong next year, he's going to be a bear to hold on to.

How ironic, since he doesn't hold onto the ball when playing the Bears

[Patler]

What would our cap situation be like if Nick Collins was still on the roster? Seems like it would he a tight fit trying to sign our guys if he was still around

They would be a much better defense if he was still around, so I would take the cap problems it would create. However, it might also create cap space, because there would be much less need for Woodson and his salary.

[Fritz]

I have a feeling Raji won't re-sign. I don't get a sense he likes being a space-eater type.

That, and Woodson either taking a cut or not coming back, will free up cap space.

But then you've got Finley, whose make-or-break is next year. And a host of others.

Damn, it would help if Drew Brees wasn't making so much coin.

[pbmax]

Flacco's agent says he deserves to be the highest paid QB in the League. I think they are planning on driving a hard bargain.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/05/joe-flaccos-agent-says-he-should-be-leagues-highest-paid-qb/

[Joemailman]

I have a feeling Raji won't re-sign. I don't get a sense he likes being a space-eater type.

That, and Woodson either taking a cut or not coming back, will free up cap space.

But then you've got Finley, whose make-or-break is next year. And a host of others.

Damn, it would help if Drew Brees wasn't making so much coin.

If the Packers offer Raji a good deal, I think he'd sign. It would be a big gamble for him to play out his contract and risk a serious injury in the last year of the contract. You're right about Brees. That contract he signed drove up the price of signing top QB's at a time when the salary cap is not going up much.

[KYPack]

What young pups are you refering to in the front 7?

Is this a reply to a different question?

er something?

I don't get the query, RB.

[rbaloha1]

Is this a reply to a different question?

er something?

I don't get the query, RB.

Nah -- forget it braddah. Keep using da kine.

[denverYooper]

Nah -- forget it braddah. Keep using da kine.

Is that what you think he means by "In the Bluegrass"?

[rbaloha1]

The pros and cons of bringing back Jermichael Finley
By Tyler Dunne of the Journal Sentinel Feb. 8, 2013

EMAIL PRINT |(59) COMMENTS
Green Bay — No single player draws quite a response from you guys quite like Jermichael Finley.

To recap, here’s what we saw this past year alone…

In June, Finley said he wanted to "freestyle." In camp, Finley was met with some competition. On the verge of the season opener, he maintained his goal not to over-think. There was that tweet. Midway through the season, Finley cited a disconnect with his quarterback. Finley's comments on Brian Urlacher created a stir. Bob McGinn reported that the team would likely part ways with the tight end. And by the end of the season, Finley finished strong.

Add it all up and those eight stories triggered 1,012 comments from readers on JSOnline. No, there isn't a more polarizing player on the roster. When 2012 was all said and done, Finley finished with 61 receptions for 667 yards and two touchdowns.

Now, it's decision time.

As detailed in today's paper, Finley believes it's "50/50" whether or not he returns. The Packers can save $8.25 million by releasing the tight end who is due a $3 million bonus in March. With many a salary cap decision on tap, that's a very real possibility. This isn't cut and dry. Here's a list of the pros and cons of keeping Finley around. And, as always, let us know what you think.

Pros...

--- Athletic, 6-foot-5, 247-pound tight ends don't grow on trees. The Packers have never boasted a tight end quite like Finley. At his best, nobody in franchise history comes close. The 2009 wild card game that Mike McCarthy called one of the best he's ever seen by a tight end is worth another look here. That tight end, knifing through secondaries like a deer, is rare in today's game.

--- When Finley's numbers dropped midway through last season, it wasn't necessarily all on him. He dropped the ball early, Aaron Rodgers began looking to other receivers and Finley was rendered a decoy for a stretch. He wasn't featured or fully utilized. In nine games, the tight end had five or less targets. By comparison, Jimmy Graham was targeted less than six times only once.

--- Speaking of "decoy," Finley still draws plenty of attention from defenses. Would any other tight ends on the roster create opportunities for others? Hard to say. Finley still drew the attention of defensive coordinators. Pop in the film and there are still defenders tilting his direction.

--- Finley ended 2012 on a high note. In his final seven games, Finley caught 32 passes for 396 yards with a touchdown. The drops were cut down. Rodgers looked to Finley again and he rewarded his quarterback's trust. The offense further opened up more as well. December was proof that there's room for a dynamic tight end to excel.

--- He has a high ceiling. He's still young. Next month, Finley turns 26 years old. With another year, maybe he does stay healthy, put it all together and emerge as a truly elite tight end. There's a good chance the Packers would regret letting Finley walk at this point in his career. They've invested a lot of time in his development.

Cons...

--- Finances. Obviously. The Packers may deem $8.25 million far too steep. That's an awful lot of money Ted Thompson could use elsewhere. Check out Tom Silverstein's story on the cap for the full rundown. Green Bay won't be able to keep everyone. The Packers G.M. must decide who stays and who goes.

--- Many times, the tight end has been in the headlines for the wrong reasons. The Packers weren't thrilled with his agent's tweet about Rodgers and he's been admittedly immature in the past. On this buttoned-up franchise, Finley stands out. Brutal honesty -- after all, his take on Brian Urlacher wasn't far off -- has gotten Finley into trouble.

--- Could be risky but maybe Green Bay has enough confidence in Andrew Quarless (back from injury), Tom Crabtree, D.J. Williams, Ryan Taylor and/or Brandon Bostick at tight end. Quarless was given a full season to recover from his knee surgery. And remember, the team did win a Super Bowl in 2010 when Finley lost for the season with a torn meniscus. Not to mention, there are a couple intriguing options in the NFL Draft. Notre Dame's Tyler Eifert or Stanford's Zach Ertz could pique Thompson's interest.

--- It may be best for both the Packers and for Finley to move on, to start fresh. Certain things Finley says in the Green Bay market wouldn't seem quite as bombastic elsewhere, in bigger cities. Another team may be more willing to take Finley in his entirety. And there could be another G.M. out there more willing to give Finley the multi-year deal he'll eventually seek.

Final Verdict...

It's funny. In Vegas, a shirtless Rob Gronkowski is dancing and body-slamming friends with a broken forearm. Yet many times, those antics are chalked up as "Gronk being Gronk." Point being, noise surrounding Finley is often overblown. Fans irritated over an emphatic first-down celebration should sit down and relax. This is a game.

Here's thinking the decision on Finley boils down to football and finances.

At what price is it worth giving Finley another season? Speaking to Finley on Thursday, this truly does sound like a "50/50" situation. He's not sure what to expect.

Right now, we're speculating. But in the end, it'd be smart for the Packers to ride out the back end of his two-year deal. He's still young and he still makes this offense much more dynamic. When the criticism reached a fever pitch last year, Finley kept a low profile and produced. The late-season report of his eventual exit was met with a calm sense of maturity in the locker room. McCarthy wasn't blowing smoke at his season-ending presser.

Green Bay is already likely to lose Greg Jennings. Losing Finley could be a major blow. Teams across the league search for weapons like Finley annually. The need to hang onto him may overcome any short-term financial constraints. Time will tell.

[Smeefers]

This is what I heard when I read the story.

Pro's: He has the potential to be awesome
Con's: He's still to immature to strive for that potential consistently

I guess we'll see how much TT thinks he's worth.

[George Cumby]

"Here's thinking the decision on Finley boils down to football and finances."

Now THAT is some hard-hitting journalism. Talk about thinking and writing in a way that makes the reader view the world in a different way.

Criminy, there's easily a half-dozen posters on this board that could do a better job than this hack.

Urinal-Scented, indeed.

[Guiness]

"Here's thinking the decision on Finley boils down to football and finances."

Now THAT is some hard-hitting journalism. Talk about thinking and writing in a way that makes the reader view the world in a different way.

Criminy, there's easily a half-dozen posters on this board that could do a better job than this hack.

Urinal-Scented, indeed.

lol. Good thing the decision didn't boil down to Mary Anne or Ginger, or Tastes Great Vs Less Filling, right?

[Cleft Crusty]

"Here's thinking the decision on Finley boils down to football and finances."

Now THAT is some hard-hitting journalism. Talk about thinking and writing in a way that makes the reader view the world in a different way.

Criminy, there's easily a half-dozen posters on this board that could do a better job than this hack.

Urinal-Scented, indeed.

Indeed. The staff at the US just isn't what it used to be

[Fritz]

lol. Good thing the decision didn't boil down to Mary Anne or Ginger, or Tastes Great Vs Less Filling, right?

Ginger. Always.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpZMAs4EAPAwknN_z4D67tv3ePpMnPT yB8FjcWH6ein90Lfj3d

[George Cumby]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aMs6o62_Ve4/To4f7PYlPII/AAAAAAAAIFk/J5ywfmdX9_o/s1600/Mary+Ann+Gilligans+Island+11.jpg

I prefer Mary Anne, myself.

[woodbuck27]

What happens if the same scenario happens next year?

As fans we live with that fact of life. That again.... too much adversity took us down.

[woodbuck27]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aMs6o62_Ve4/To4f7PYlPII/AAAAAAAAIFk/J5ywfmdX9_o/s1600/Mary+Ann+Gilligans+Island+11.jpg

I prefer Mary Anne, myself.

Spend BIG for her if she comes with the tanning bed.

[Fritz]

Ginger would do nasty things that Mary Ann wouldn't even say out loud.

I wonder who Ted prefers....Mary Ann, Ginger, or the Combine?

[denverYooper]

Ginger would do nasty things that Mary Ann wouldn't even say out loud.

I wonder who Ted prefers....Mary Ann, Ginger, or the Combine?

http://people.ict.usc.edu/~pynadath/images/hal-9000-eye.jpg

[Cheesehead Craig]

Ginger would do nasty things that Mary Ann wouldn't even say out loud.

I wonder who Ted prefers....Mary Ann, Ginger, or the Combine?

Bitch please. Ginger would be too worried about her hair and make everything about herself. Mary Anne is a people pleaser and would certainly do anything she could to please people.

[Fritz]

I would rather hear Ginger's voice whispering the 40 times and the three-cone drill results of the Combine's top linebackers than hear Mary Ann reciting the sexual acts she would reluctantly perform with her eyes closed.

[Fritz]

QUOTE=Cheesehead Craig;714730]Bitch please. Ginger would be too worried about her hair and make everything about herself. Mary Anne is a people pleaser and would certainly do anything she could to please people.[/QUOTE]

Wait a sec...maybe "None of the Above" is the best answer, after all:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjzFb2VAWe1ekmbnENbI834wWhxN2VL RrkPos75k23DxUr7z7ZFg



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFBLRvWzqIZR5nkul9h4njUsEE1c2df tbIs2LsOZ4hEbr7aNoY

[smuggler]

If forced to choose, I'd take Mary Ann. Ginger's starting to look a bit like the crypt keeper. Yeesh.

[Cheesehead Craig]

fritz now loses rep pts for sullying the mental images of Ginger and Mary Ann in their prime with their actual photos of today. Bastard.

[sharpe1027]

Wait a sec...maybe "None of the Above" is the best answer, after all:

Why Fritz? Why?

[Patler]

What? No option for Mrs. Howell?

[RUnuts]

QUOTE=Cheesehead Craig;714730]Bitch please. Ginger would be too worried about her hair and make everything about herself. Mary Anne is a people pleaser and would certainly do anything she could to please people.

Wait a sec...maybe "None of the Above" is the best answer, after all:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjzFb2VAWe1ekmbnENbI834wWhxN2VL RrkPos75k23DxUr7z7ZFg



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFBLRvWzqIZR5nkul9h4njUsEE1c2df tbIs2LsOZ4hEbr7aNoY[/QUOTE]

Yeeshka!! I wouldn't take either one to a shit fight as a shield.

[Cheesehead Craig]

What? No option for Mrs. Howell?

You pervert. Althought that does remind me of that scene from Biloxi Blues when a soldier says if he had a week to live he'd want to do it with the Queen of England.

[George Cumby]

You pervert. Althought that does remind me of that scene from Biloxi Blues when a soldier says if he had a week to live he'd want to do it with the Queen of England.

Mr. P is just showing his preference for an age-appropriate encounter :-D

[George Cumby]

But my all time favorite:

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6100000/Barbara-Eden-as-Jeannie-i-dream-of-jeannie-6161331-450-597.jpg

Boy-o-boy I would've liked to have played "hide the bottle" with Jeanie.

[pbmax]

That was a rare fumble for Fritz there. Tarnishing people's memories like that.

[woodbuck27]

The pros and cons of bringing back Jermichael Finley
By Tyler Dunne of the Journal Sentinel Feb. 8, 2013

EMAIL PRINT |(59) COMMENTS
Green Bay — No single player draws quite a response from you guys quite like Jermichael Finley.

To recap, here’s what we saw this past year alone…

In June, Finley said he wanted to "freestyle." In camp, Finley was met with some competition. On the verge of the season opener, he maintained his goal not to over-think. There was that tweet. Midway through the season, Finley cited a disconnect with his quarterback. Finley's comments on Brian Urlacher created a stir. Bob McGinn reported that the team would likely part ways with the tight end. And by the end of the season, Finley finished strong.

Add it all up and those eight stories triggered 1,012 comments from readers on JSOnline. No, there isn't a more polarizing player on the roster. When 2012 was all said and done, Finley finished with 61 receptions for 667 yards and two touchdowns.

Now, it's decision time.

As detailed in today's paper, Finley believes it's "50/50" whether or not he returns. The Packers can save $8.25 million by releasing the tight end who is due a $3 million bonus in March. With many a salary cap decision on tap, that's a very real possibility. This isn't cut and dry. Here's a list of the pros and cons of keeping Finley around. And, as always, let us know what you think.

Pros...

--- Athletic, 6-foot-5, 247-pound tight ends don't grow on trees. The Packers have never boasted a tight end quite like Finley. At his best, nobody in franchise history comes close. The 2009 wild card game that Mike McCarthy called one of the best he's ever seen by a tight end is worth another look here. That tight end, knifing through secondaries like a deer, is rare in today's game.

--- When Finley's numbers dropped midway through last season, it wasn't necessarily all on him. He dropped the ball early, Aaron Rodgers began looking to other receivers and Finley was rendered a decoy for a stretch. He wasn't featured or fully utilized. In nine games, the tight end had five or less targets. By comparison, Jimmy Graham was targeted less than six times only once.

--- Speaking of "decoy," Finley still draws plenty of attention from defenses. Would any other tight ends on the roster create opportunities for others? Hard to say. Finley still drew the attention of defensive coordinators. Pop in the film and there are still defenders tilting his direction.

--- Finley ended 2012 on a high note. In his final seven games, Finley caught 32 passes for 396 yards with a touchdown. The drops were cut down. Rodgers looked to Finley again and he rewarded his quarterback's trust. The offense further opened up more as well. December was proof that there's room for a dynamic tight end to excel.

--- He has a high ceiling. He's still young. Next month, Finley turns 26 years old. With another year, maybe he does stay healthy, put it all together and emerge as a truly elite tight end. There's a good chance the Packers would regret letting Finley walk at this point in his career. They've invested a lot of time in his development.

Cons...

--- Finances. Obviously. The Packers may deem $8.25 million far too steep. That's an awful lot of money Ted Thompson could use elsewhere. Check out Tom Silverstein's story on the cap for the full rundown. Green Bay won't be able to keep everyone. The Packers G.M. must decide who stays and who goes.

--- Many times, the tight end has been in the headlines for the wrong reasons. The Packers weren't thrilled with his agent's tweet about Rodgers and he's been admittedly immature in the past. On this buttoned-up franchise, Finley stands out. Brutal honesty -- after all, his take on Brian Urlacher wasn't far off -- has gotten Finley into trouble.

--- Could be risky but maybe Green Bay has enough confidence in Andrew Quarless (back from injury), Tom Crabtree, D.J. Williams, Ryan Taylor and/or Brandon Bostick at tight end. Quarless was given a full season to recover from his knee surgery. And remember, the team did win a Super Bowl in 2010 when Finley lost for the season with a torn meniscus. Not to mention, there are a couple intriguing options in the NFL Draft. Notre Dame's Tyler Eifert or Stanford's Zach Ertz could pique Thompson's interest.

--- It may be best for both the Packers and for Finley to move on, to start fresh. Certain things Finley says in the Green Bay market wouldn't seem quite as bombastic elsewhere, in bigger cities. Another team may be more willing to take Finley in his entirety. And there could be another G.M. out there more willing to give Finley the multi-year deal he'll eventually seek.

Final Verdict...

It's funny. In Vegas, a shirtless Rob Gronkowski is dancing and body-slamming friends with a broken forearm. Yet many times, those antics are chalked up as "Gronk being Gronk." Point being, noise surrounding Finley is often overblown. Fans irritated over an emphatic first-down celebration should sit down and relax. This is a game.

Here's thinking the decision on Finley boils down to football and finances.

At what price is it worth giving Finley another season? Speaking to Finley on Thursday, this truly does sound like a "50/50" situation. He's not sure what to expect.

Right now, we're speculating. But in the end, it'd be smart for the Packers to ride out the back end of his two-year deal. He's still young and he still makes this offense much more dynamic. When the criticism reached a fever pitch last year, Finley kept a low profile and produced. The late-season report of his eventual exit was met with a calm sense of maturity in the locker room. McCarthy wasn't blowing smoke at his season-ending presser.

Green Bay is already likely to lose Greg Jennings. Losing Finley could be a major blow. Teams across the league search for weapons like Finley annually. The need to hang onto him may overcome any short-term financial constraints. Time will tell.

So does it make sence then to franchise JF?

[Fritz]

That was a rare fumble for Fritz there. Tarnishing people's memories like that.

I suppose you're right. It's like posting pictures of an ancient, ailing Bart Starr or Jerry Kramer. Nobody wants to be reminded of our mortality. I will attempt to make it up by seeing if I can find some nude photos of Maryann and Ginger in their primes, having a hot make-out session whle a young Mrs. Howell looks on, cradling a photo of an even younger Bart Starr.

[Fritz]

What? No option for Mrs. Howell?

This one's for you, Plater:


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBpxyPzSDi-HNfM49Qyl25p5nWGbvilHLPK3fbEoSQ4tvsLDRHXg

[woodbuck27]

This one's for you, Plater:


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBpxyPzSDi-HNfM49Qyl25p5nWGbvilHLPK3fbEoSQ4tvsLDRHXg

but....can she cook?

[esoxx]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFBLRvWzqIZR5nkul9h4njUsEE1c2df tbIs2LsOZ4hEbr7aNoY

Pardon the pun but who dug up the picture of Al Davis above?

[Patler]

Mr. P is just showing his preference for an age-appropriate encounter :-D

Ya, age appropriate with her then and me now. But, in the real world, Ginger is now 79, Maryanne is 74. (BTW - Mrs. Patler, to whom I have been married forever, takes a much better picture than either of them did in the above.)

The dearly departed Mrs. Howell? She would be 112 if still alive! Too old for even me!

[Joemailman]

So does it make sence then to franchise JF?

Probably not, since he still has a year left on his contract.

[Fritz]

My best guess is that they'll bite the bullet a d pay Finley this year, see what he does. Though I would not be surprised to see ol' Ted draft a tight end from Western Montana Truck Driving and Bible College in the fourth round.