January of 2013 vs January of 2012----WHICH January brings the most optimmism in year ahead

[Bretsky]

I was thinking about this last night.

At the end of last season, we finished the regular season 15-1 and lost to a Giant Team that beat our asses down...but they also got some breaks.

Going into the draft last year, many of us didn't see that many holes and were all about TT trading up to fill the few positions of need we had.

How do we feel now ? What is the consensus now ? Better or worse than one year ago at this time ????

After getting our ass kicked a few times by the teams we would categorize as my powerful/physical (Giants\Niners)......one could note a pattern that we just don't match up against the teams that are powerful in the trenches.

I'm not sure where I stand. Certainly we are set up for many years of playoffs runs in a row......but when I look at this roster I see more holes that need to be filled than I did at the end of last year.

We do have more talent as far as cover guys go via the draft but we undoubtedly still lack one hitter back there in the secondary....an enforcer type who is an all around player....and we seem to lack one rising star at both DL and at LB. Perhaps that guy is last year's first round pick; unlike Derrek Sherry I saw something from him that leaves me some optimism he can be a player sometimes down the road.

Jennings is leaving, bu still gotta still like the WR's next year and Finley I think stays so I'm not sure we lose much there.

But our OL leaves plenty of room for concern............maybe it's just the running game.....so I'm not sure if you want to say we need a legit RB or another legit OL. If there is an oustanding prospect at Center in round one or two, that would go a long way toward stabalizing this line. Newhouse is not good; but he's not that bad either and I think he can be serviceable.

QB.........we're set as long as AROD stays healthy and screwed if he does not.


So the question....with some reqeusts to share your thoughts....................

Are you more or less optimistic about this Packer team than you were one year ago after getting bounced from the playoffs ????

[Bretsky]

ooops.........spelled optimism wrong in the Title................

CALLING WIST............I want to hear your anti homer views on this too :)

[Joemailman]

I don't think that much has changed, except for the fact I'm convinced the Packers still need a replacement for Nick Collins. They will be losing great players like Jennings and Woodson soon, but it appears TT has done a pretty good job of drafting their replacements. If TT can upgrade the Safety and Defensive line positions in the draft, I think they're in pretty good shape. I don't think the prospects of the offensive line going forward are as bad as people think.

[pbmax]

It all depends on how you feel about the health and immediate future prospects of Bulaga and Sherrod. I am guardedly optimistic and therefore feel much the same as last year. My concerns on D have shifted forward, from DBs and OLBs to DL, but that is it. My concern over the D is less than it was last year.

[Patler]

It all depends on how you feel about the health and immediate future prospects of Bulaga and Sherrod. I am guardedly optimistic and therefore feel much the same as last year. My concerns on D have shifted forward, from DBs and OLBs to DL, but that is it. My concern over the D is less than it was last year.

I agree with pbmax 100%. Last year at this time I was petty down about half the team. The defense was horrible. But some ground has been made in fixing it, and I think the offense will rebound to some middle position between the "O" of 2011 and that of 2012. A lot will depend on the health of not only Bulaga and Sherrod, but also the health of Nelson next year, and whether another top WR is found to go with Nelson, Jones and Cobb. Finley is the wild card.

There are still holes to fill on defense to be sure, but there is more young talent on that side than there has been in a long time. I'm not sure what to think about Tramon Williams, and the injury to Worthy is a concern for next year. I'm not sure why, but I am guardedly optimistic about Perry, and he is a guy who could give the defense a tougher edge to it.

I guess I feel better than last year, perhaps only because the team has better balance than a year ago.

[Bretsky]

It all depends on how you feel about the health and immediate future prospects of Bulaga and Sherrod. I am guardedly optimistic and therefore feel much the same as last year. My concerns on D have shifted forward, from DBs and OLBs to DL, but that is it. My concern over the D is less than it was last year.

We need Buluga back; Sherry.......no expectation here

[smuggler]

I'd say the January 2012 outlook was better than the January 2013 outlook, but it's still not bad.

[SkinBasket]

I agree with pbmax 100%.

I do too even though he's kind of a jerk. I feel the team is in a more flexible position than it was last off season, whatever the fuck that means. I think what I mean is that Ted Thompson is fucking awesome, like that Thrift Shop song. Just because you didn't pay $50 for that t-shirt doesn't mean it isn't a nice shirt, it just means he's not a bitch who pays a lot of money for shiny things. Shiny things being overpriced black men in this extended mixed metaphor, or is it a simile? So instead of having one tee shirt from Wet Seal that will probably be mocked in a year or two for looking stupid or getting a big hole in the armpit, he has a whole drawer of nice, plain shirts that can be worn in different combinations with different pants and shorts and stuff.

The offensive line is what worries me most and I'm very smart, so you should feel that way too.

[RashanGary]

The offensive line is what worries me most and I'm very smart, so you should feel that way too.


No reason to quote this, but here it is anyway .


I'm most worried about the interior of our defensive back 7 and RB.

[woodbuck27]

Good question B.

a) Our team has picked it up a long ways on 'D' from the 2011 season but we need help at LBer to seal the edge.

b) We need 'a strong big body player' on the DL to assist and take pressure off Pickett and Raji. Those men are certainly wearing down.

c) We need to see an improvement overall in team tackling and that goes to the size, strength and speed of the defensive roster.

d) We see the need for a FS that can cover up the weakness with the loss of Nick Collins. We need a punishing hitter back there.

e) We're likely losing our NO. 1 WR in Greg Jennings; so we need to see Jordy Nelson return to 2011 season form. James Jones has shown us a break out year and Randall Cobb looks great but we need more at WR. Without emphasis there the effectiveness of Aaron Rodgers is wasted. We need to see more chemistry between our QB and whomever plays TE. That problem must be solved in order to run a real WCO.

f) An upgrade at RB would be nice but are we ready for that investment? You don't put the cart before the horse. Before TT goes there he needs to see our OL shored up. We need to upgrade at both tackle positions and see development at center. Do we have the men at present to get that done? TT and MM must know the answer to that. The OL is a NO. 1 priority.

Win some - lose some. It's there in regards to how we are, entering this off season compared to last. Overall we're three - four solid position upgrades towords becoming a much improved, more competitive team with the big boys. It's a step by step process that IMO, and if all goes on schedule. Should realistically take at least two-three seasons.

All that matters is winning the Super Bowl. So much of that has to do with luck and momentum.

GO PACKERS !

[SkinBasket]

e) We're likely losing our NO. 1 WR in Greg Jennings; so we need to see Jordy Nelson return to 2011 season form. James Jones has shown us a break out year and Randall Cobb looks great but we need more at WR. Without emphasis there the effectiveness of Aaron Rodgers is wasted. We need to see more chemistry between our QB and whomever plays TE. That problem must be solved in order to run a real WCO.

36 receptions for 366 yards and 4 TDs are not NO. 1 WR numbers. Ergo, he was not our number one WR. We're losing an athletic receiver who's had a couple of standout seasons. There of lots of those guys around. I like him, but he's averaged 60 rec a year for 930 and 7.5 TD a season. Hardly irreplaceable.

[Cheesehead Craig]

c) We need to see an improvement overall in team tackling and that goes to the size, strength and speed of the defensive roster.


While I agree that the Packers need to improve tackling; tackling is not about size, speed, and strength. It's about technique and desire. Lots of big, strong, fast players out there who can't tackle worth a damn because they just think that slamming into the ball carrier will bring him down. Get the right form and technique and good things will happen.

[George Cumby]

I am less optimistic. The Vikes will continue to improve, the Bears will be better. If Woodson stays, he will be another year older, if he goes, we lose that leadership. My perception is that the Packers just seem a little too satisfied and complacent, there is a hard edge missing.

[woodbuck27]

36 receptions for 366 yards and 4 TDs are not NO. 1 WR numbers. Ergo, he was not our number one WR. We're losing an athletic receiver who's had a couple of standout seasons. There of lots of those guys around. I like him, but he's averaged 60 rec a year for 930 and 7.5 TD a season. Hardly irreplaceable.

When we entered this past season 'the 2012 season'. It was my understanding that Greg Jennings was ranked as our NO. 1 WR; and that inspite of the lofty numbers put up in 2011 by Jordy Nelson.

Greg Jennings no longer rates such status given his health last season. Clearly last season given the numbers. James Jones has earned consideration for that distinction.

PACKERS !

[mraynrand]

We need to see more chemistry between our QB and whomever plays TE. That problem must be solved in order to run a real WCO.

why would the Packers want to run a 'real WCO' when they haven't for over a decade.

[SkinBasket]

Greg Jennings no longer rates such status given his health last season. Clearly last season given the numbers. James Jones has earned consideration for that distinction.

Then why did you say we're losing our NO. 1 WR?

[sharpe1027]

I am less optimistic now, but I was probably unrealistic last year. I still think they'll be a playoff team and that means they have a shot at another super bowl.

[red]

i was more optimistic last year

i think we might see a slight dip this season. we might be gaining more talent through the draft and coming back from injury, but it looks like we're gonna lose A LOT of leadership (driver, jennings, woodson, and yes hawk), added to the lose of collins last year. without that leadership, i don't think we'll have what it takes to get back to the top this season

last off season i knew we were the top dogs, now it feels like we're playing catch up

[denverYooper]

Superbowl 49 champs. That's when their mostly young defense will finally come into their own and Rats will be exclaiming the virtues of Ted's defensive drafts.

Still a lotta young dudes on that unit. They need another season yet.

[Patler]

I am less optimistic. The Vikes will continue to improve, the Bears will be better. If Woodson stays, he will be another year older, if he goes, we lose that leadership. My perception is that the Packers just seem a little too satisfied and complacent, there is a hard edge missing.

I wonder about the Vikings. I think it is highly unlikely that Peterson will be able to duplicate his 2012 season, or even close to it. I think the jury is still out on whether or not they have a QB to build around, and if their HC is a guy who can lead them to the top. Was 2012 evidence of things to come, or are they really more the team of 2011, and 2012 just sort of "happened" as it does at times in the NFL?

The Bears have survived for years with ST and defense, both of which could change significantly in 2013 with aging players and coaching changes. For Trestman to make a difference on offense, and get the most out of Cutler, they have to find some O-linemen. I think the Bears will experience a year or two of decline before a possible rise under Trestman.

Talent-wise, I am more concerned about the Lions. The have a highly productive QB, perhaps with a little Cutler in him, luckily, and a WR who is becoming more and more dominant. They have a couple DL who can dominate the game. Fortunately for the Packers they have an attitude from their HC on down that will hurt them most years, in my opinion, but in any one year they could run away with things (or not!)

The steady-Eddie approach of TT and MM might be a bit boring, but it should keep them in contention year after year. Sure would be nice to hit on a high impact rookie or two in 2013.

[Fritz]

I agree with pbmax 100%. Last year at this time I was petty down about half the team. The defense was horrible. But some ground has been made in fixing it, and I think the offense will rebound to some middle position between the "O" of 2011 and that of 2012. A lot will depend on the health of not only Bulaga and Sherrod, but also the health of Nelson next year, and whether another top WR is found to go with Nelson, Jones and Cobb. Finley is the wild card.

There are still holes to fill on defense to be sure, but there is more young talent on that side than there has been in a long time. I'm not sure what to think about Tramon Williams, and the injury to Worthy is a concern for next year. I'm not sure why, but I am guardedly optimistic about Perry, and he is a guy who could give the defense a tougher edge to it.

I guess I feel better than last year, perhaps only because the team has better balance than a year ago.

I don't know if I am more or less optimistic than a year ago, but I am certainly more puzzled than I was.

I am puzzled, first of all, as to whether the two d-linemen that TT brought in are right for this defense. I was excited when Worthy was drafted, but now he's hurt and beyond that, seems ill-suited for holding his ground and eating up blockers, and seems to lack the moves to get to the QB, who, if he's Colin Krapernick, will just deke Worthy out of his shorts anyway. I feel this way because of this read option stuff. Now all of a sudden it seems you need big, blocker-eating, ground-holding tanks to keep position so that quick, fast, big-enough linebackers can track down running QB's.

I am also puzzled, unlike Joe, by this offensive line. A year ago I thought that Newhouse was improving and would be steady at left tackle, that TT had found some very solid guards, and that Bulaga would be an anchor at right tackle. I figured they'd get by with Saturday. But alas, none of this was so. Newhouse was pretty weak, although he did better at the end of the year. I don't know how much Saturday's problems affected Lang and Sitton; nonetheless, both seemed awfully easy to push around or run around pretty often. Bulaga had a terrible game in Seattle, then settled down, but did not seem like a steady rock. We have no idea what the team has in Sherrod.

And I'm puzzled by the linebackers. Hawk's steadiness seems no longer enough when the read option is emerging and quarterbacks seem faster and faster. Will Bishop return healthy? Is Nick Perry going to be fast enough to cover anyone, or fast enough to trap QB's like Griffin or Kraperdick?

I just dunno. I see the need for more defensive help via the draft - fast guys at inside linebacker, and a couple of big guys for the nose position and for defensive end.

And there seems to be a lot of calls for a safety. What about McMillian? Did he just not show enough potential?

So it seems like a receiver is needed, too, and maybe a safety, and certainly an inside linebacker, and a defensive nose tacke, and an end. And maybe another offensive lineman or two.

And the team doesn't seem to have enough time to let a few fifth, sixth, or seventh rounders (and undrafted free agents) develop slowly, as later round picks sometimes seem to.

Geez, I just read my post. Guess I'm pessimistic - today.

[George Cumby]

I wonder about the Vikings. I think it is highly unlikely that Peterson will be able to duplicate his 2012 season, or even close to it. I think the jury is still out on whether or not they have a QB to build around, and if their HC is a guy who can lead them to the top. Was 2012 evidence of things to come, or are they really more the team of 2011, and 2012 just sort of "happened" as it does at times in the NFL?

The Bears have survived for years with ST and defense, both of which could change significantly in 2013 with aging players and coaching changes. For Trestman to make a difference on offense, and get the most out of Cutler, they have to find some O-linemen. I think the Bears will experience a year or two of decline before a possible rise under Trestman.

Talent-wise, I am more concerned about the Lions. The have a highly productive QB, perhaps with a little Cutler in him, luckily, and a WR who is becoming more and more dominant. They have a couple DL who can dominate the game. Fortunately for the Packers they have an attitude from their HC on down that will hurt them most years, in my opinion, but in any one year they could run away with things (or not!)

The steady-Eddie approach of TT and MM might be a bit boring, but it should keep them in contention year after year. Sure would be nice to hit on a high impact rookie or two in 2013.

Excellent points, as usual.

Ponder has shown that he can learn from his mistakes, AP won't duplicate this year and the team's success depends on the health of AP's knees. All that said, it would seem that Frazier is a steady hand on the tiller and has the team pointed in the right direction.

The Bears are old on D and their O-Line is poor, but I think Trestman makes a difference for them.

As you say, the Lions are the most talented of the bunch, they are really dangerous but because they are led by a cuckoo, they are prone to self-destruction.

I have NO complaints over the Pack's steady-Eddie approach. I have been sold on that since TT's first draft.

All that being said, the Pack are the most talented in the Division and should win it, but they could lose to ANY of their division opponents. But my concern still lingers over my perception that the team lacks that killer instinct. (OT: I agree with you on Perry, I think he will be that solid force on the opposite side; from what little I've seen, he's got what it takes.)

[pbmax]

The Packer Defense might be a situation where the drafting or development of a singular talent will decide the direction of the rest of the roster moves in the future.

If Nick Perry develops into a true pass rush threat, then pass rushers in the interior aren't as desperately important and more space eaters for 1st and 2nd down could be carried.

If they draft an ILB who is great but needs protection (like R. Lewis or the short guy from Miami a while back) that might break the logjam. If they get a 5 tech DE who can also pressure the QB, then that would point in a different direction. The confusion on defense might be the best argument to take the best player and make the rest of the replaceable parts fit around the 3 good ones.

[3irty1]

I think I feel better this January but I bet I will have felt better after last year's draft than this year's draft. Hard to say.

Although last Jan a Nick Collins return hadn't been ruled out yet had it?

[3irty1]

I wonder about the Vikings. I think it is highly unlikely that Peterson will be able to duplicate his 2012 season, or even close to it. I think the jury is still out on whether or not they have a QB to build around, and if their HC is a guy who can lead them to the top. Was 2012 evidence of things to come, or are they really more the team of 2011, and 2012 just sort of "happened" as it does at times in the NFL?

The Bears have survived for years with ST and defense, both of which could change significantly in 2013 with aging players and coaching changes. For Trestman to make a difference on offense, and get the most out of Cutler, they have to find some O-linemen. I think the Bears will experience a year or two of decline before a possible rise under Trestman.

Talent-wise, I am more concerned about the Lions. The have a highly productive QB, perhaps with a little Cutler in him, luckily, and a WR who is becoming more and more dominant. They have a couple DL who can dominate the game. Fortunately for the Packers they have an attitude from their HC on down that will hurt them most years, in my opinion, but in any one year they could run away with things (or not!)

The steady-Eddie approach of TT and MM might be a bit boring, but it should keep them in contention year after year. Sure would be nice to hit on a high impact rookie or two in 2013.

The Vikings need a hell of a draft this year to keep the mirage alive. They were extraordinarily healthy this season and still kind of sucked. I agree they might improve their team but I highly doubt they'll improve their record.

[denverYooper]

FWIW, Morgan Burnett was one of only 2 players to play every snap this year.

[pbmax]

I thought Ponder looked the part in his last few games. Might be the effect of every team following AP around like he was an ice cream truck, but still, looked like he fit the bill.

[Patler]

I thought Ponder looked the part in his last few games. Might be the effect of every team following AP around like he was an ice cream truck, but still, looked like he fit the bill.

Yes he did, but it was such a stunning reversal from the way he played in the first Packer game that I have a hard time believing it. It doesn't usually happen as dramatically as turning a switch, but that is the way Ponder performed after the first Packer game. Like night and day. Maybe he's there, but he still has a lot to prove.

[Cheesehead Craig]

There are still many here in the Twin Cities who don't buy that Ponder is the answer, including former Vikings. He definately still has a lot to prove.

[sharpe1027]

The Bears are the team that worries me the most. I think the new leadership is a big wildcard. It could go either way.

I am not convinced that kitty cats are as talented as the hype. They have some good players, but people seem to hold them out to be one of the more talented teams.

The Vikings are a one-man show. If they are very lucky, he stays healthy and productive all year. I wouldn't bet on it with how many times they are forced to give him the ball.

[Fritz]

The Packer Defense might be a situation where the drafting or development of a singular talent will decide the direction of the rest of the roster moves in the future.

If Nick Perry develops into a true pass rush threat, then pass rushers in the interior aren't as desperately important and more space eaters for 1st and 2nd down could be carried.

If they draft an ILB who is great but needs protection (like R. Lewis or the short guy from Miami a while back) that might break the logjam. If they get a 5 tech DE who can also pressure the QB, then that would point in a different direction. The confusion on defense might be the best argument to take the best player and make the rest of the replaceable parts fit around the 3 good ones.

I think this is a good point. I have been wondering, though, how to best defense an offense built on the read option. Do you need guys that are super fast to catch the QB? Do you need monster interior guys to eat up blockers and hold position so the linebackers can fill in?

One thing, it seems to me that you can't have a three-man rush. It creates too many gaps for the QB to run through, and if he can then make the first tackler miss, then it's probably a first down.

[Pugger]

I don't think that much has changed, except for the fact I'm convinced the Packers still need a replacement for Nick Collins. They will be losing great players like Jennings and Woodson soon, but it appears TT has done a pretty good job of drafting their replacements. If TT can upgrade the Safety and Defensive line positions in the draft, I think they're in pretty good shape. I don't think the prospects of the offensive line going forward are as bad as people think.

GMTA ;-)

If we can fix these defensive issues we should be in the running once again. Will getting Perry and Bishop back be the shot in the arm this defense needs? It might be prudent to improve our running game too. If defenses have to account for our RB Rodgers will be even more dangerous than he already is. :grin:

[Pugger]

The Vikings need a hell of a draft this year to keep the mirage alive. They were extraordinarily healthy this season and still kind of sucked. I agree they might improve their team but I highly doubt they'll improve their record.

It will be interesting to see how they will draft now that they won't be picking in the first half of the rounds.