Brad Jones

[3irty1]

One free agent there hasn't been much discussion about is Brad Jones. Few will argue that Brad Jones has been a steal given his draft position, pay grade, and versatility. Throughout his career he's been a good special teamer, and has played OLB and now ILB when pressed into service and done a fine job despite looking foolish vs the 49ers in the playoffs.

On a healthy roster, I see Brad Jones filling a roll similar to what we had Brandon Chillar doing. I think he's hands down our best coverage linebacker and should steal some snaps on third down just for that. Since he's also got the ability to backup any linebacker spot, I'd rather be rocking him as a backup there than one of the perennial misfit toy experiments we drag in.

He racked up a fair amount of tackles this year, I could see him getting some serious looks in free agency this season. Share your opinions, what's Brad Jones worth?

[pbmax]

He's worth Bush money at least, because he should be the dime linebacker next year. He has some serious wheels and a talent for coverage.

His experience inside the past two camps and this past reg season mean that he would not be entirely out of place or unfamiliar if a team ran something other than a pass versus the dime package.

[sharpe1027]

I am still having nightmares about his play against San Fran.

[Patler]

I am still having nightmares about his play against San Fran.

Was he any more nightmarish than Hawk? Walden? Matthews? Raj? Williams?
After watching the game a week or so later, I'm not sure anyone on defense was much worse than anyone else. All had too many plays during which they looked inept, including our should-be studs like Matthews and Raji.

Bad game plan?
Failure to execute game plan?
Out-matched in talent?
I don't know which it was, but I can't single out any player as being significantly worse than the others.

[sharpe1027]

Was he any more nightmarish than Hawk? Walden? Matthews? Raj? Williams?
After watching the game a week or so later, I'm not sure anyone on defense was much worse than anyone else. All had too many plays during which they looked inept, including our should-be studs like Matthews and Raji.

Bad game plan?
Failure to execute game plan?
Out-matched in talent?
I don't know which it was, but I can't single out any player as being significantly worse than the others.

I can. There were enough bad plays to go around, but Jones was involved in too many for my taste. Granted, its just my informed opinion based upon my admittedly hazy memory of the game. :)

In any event, the question isn't so much whether or not he was worse than Matthews in that game, it is his value as a free agent. I'll give him a little leeway considering he was forced to move inside, but he just doesn't seem to have ever really hit his stride. He started out well early in his career, and showed potential. That potential never developed further. Barring significant injuries again, he is a bit player and a non-standout special teamer. IMO, he's just not worth that much.

[Bretsky]

I am still having nightmares about his play against San Fran.

Re Watch the Arizona Playoff game that we lost and you'll feel much better about Jones play vs. San Fran

He's a JAG

[denverYooper]

Re Watch the Arizona Playoff game that we lost and you'll feel much better about Jones play vs. San Fran

He's a JAG

He practices military law?

[mission]

I like Jones at Bush money. Love him in coverage.

[packrulz]

I thought Jones played pretty well considering he had to move inside, he'll get better.

[Patler]

Jones is valuable on a 53 man roster, not as a starter, but as a reserve on the game day roster. First and foremost, he contributes on ST. After that, he has value as a backup at inside and outside LB positions. He has shown some ability in pass coverage, and in pass rush. No one is suggesting paying him a lot of money. I don't think anyone is pushing for him to be a starter. But in determining the game day roster, you need players who play well on ST and have versatility as a reserve player at multiple positions or in multiple situations. Jones has that.

[rbaloha1]

BJ should be brought back only for the minimum.

Valued ST player (agree like Bush) and strictly an olb. Maybe can regain some pass rushing skills displayed as a rookie.

[Pugger]

Was he any more nightmarish than Hawk? Walden? Matthews? Raj? Williams?
After watching the game a week or so later, I'm not sure anyone on defense was much worse than anyone else. All had too many plays during which they looked inept, including our should-be studs like Matthews and Raji.

Bad game plan?
Failure to execute game plan?
Out-matched in talent?
I don't know which it was, but I can't single out any player as being significantly worse than the others.

Probably a combination of all of these. I don't think our D was as atrocious as we showed in that one playoff game but it did show we still have a couple of holes to fill. Will the return of Perry and Bishop make a difference plus maybe a FA and/or a draft pick? I hope so!

[pbmax]

Jones biggest errors were being late to fill from inside when Hawk scraped (went outside) to stop the QB keep. He also had one definite horrible missed tackle that would have saved yards and gotten the ball back.

[sharpe1027]

Nobody is saying Jones isn't good enough to make the 53 man roster. I just do not think he is worth very much. I wouldn't pay him Bush money. Bush was every bit as versatile as a backup (plays multiple positions), and was better on special teams, and, he still might be a bit overpaid. Then again, I'm just a poster on an Internet forum. What do I know?

[smuggler]

Walden played worse in the SF game and is GONE. BJ is more valuable than Walden, the way the league is currently set up. Provides depth at ILB and also contributes on special teams and in certain D packages. Jones is JAG as a starter, but better as depth.

Walden is worse than a JAG at starter.

[Patler]

Nobody is saying Jones isn't good enough to make the 53 man roster. I just do not think he is worth very much. I wouldn't pay him Bush money. Bush was every bit as versatile as a backup (plays multiple positions), and was better on special teams, and, he still might be a bit overpaid. Then again, I'm just a poster on an Internet forum. What do I know?

I don't know if Bush is better on ST or not, as a gunner he gets a little more fanfare, and is in position to down punts etc., so we see him more. There were a couple articles expressing concern when Jones became a starter and had his ST role reduced. Articles said he was one of the real stalwarts on ST, and a guy who took his role extremely seriously on ST. I think Jones is more valuable as a player on defense than Bush. He's a better player on defense.

I think a Bush-like contract in concept would be fine. Bush isn't making all that much, 3 years/$5.25 million. That's about 2x the vet minimums for a player in years 7-9 like Bush. A 2x minimum for a 5-7 year player like Jones should be worth about $4.75 or so. I think he is worth that. Probably will get a better offer than that from someone else, though.

[Fritz]

"Bush was every bit as versatile

"...we still have a couple of holes to fill."

"BJ should be brought back only for the minimum."

Great Thread! About a guy named Jones!

[3irty1]

I don't think he's the teams ace that Bush is although he does have the exact size/speed combo you can't get enough of for special teams.

I think Jones is worth quite a bit more than Bush as he has real defensive value. He's a backup OLB and not even a good one I agree, but he's still got upside as an ILB IMO and is already good enough to be a 3rd down specialist at that position.

[The Shadow]

Bush money here in the more rundown parts of Chicago can range from $20 to $35.

[sharpe1027]

I don't know if Bush is better on ST or not, as a gunner he gets a little more fanfare, and is in position to down punts etc., so we see him more. There were a couple articles expressing concern when Jones became a starter and had his ST role reduced. Articles said he was one of the real stalwarts on ST, and a guy who took his role extremely seriously on ST. I think Jones is more valuable as a player on defense than Bush. He's a better player on defense.

I think a Bush-like contract in concept would be fine. Bush isn't making all that much, 3 years/$5.25 million. That's about 2x the vet minimums for a player in years 7-9 like Bush. A 2x minimum for a 5-7 year player like Jones should be worth about $4.75 or so. I think he is worth that. Probably will get a better offer than that from someone else, though.

Maybe BJ is slightly more valuable than Bush, but it's splitting hairs at this point. Both are buried so deep on the depth chart that it takes multiple injuries for them to make the field (other that special teams). There has been some talk of BJ playing in the dime. While that's fan speculation at this point, it would make him a little more valuable. Of course, it seems like the coaches talk about Bush playing more on D every year.

I can agree on your point about Bush's contract. It is not that much. He's somewhere around 20th on the team. They can afford to pay BJ that much, but is it really justifiable? I think they could go either way. If they think they can fill Jones' spot without much of a drop off, they won't think twice about dumping him for a guy that they think might develop. Otherwise, they may play it safe and resign him. IDK.

[3irty1]

Maybe BJ is slightly more valuable than Bush, but it's splitting hairs at this point. Both are buried so deep on the depth chart that it takes multiple injuries for them to make the field (other that special teams). There has been some talk of BJ playing in the dime. While that's fan speculation at this point, it would make him a little more valuable. Of course, it seems like the coaches talk about Bush playing more on D every year.

I can agree on your point about Bush's contract. It is not that much. He's somewhere around 20th on the team. They can afford to pay BJ that much, but is it really justifiable? I think they could go either way. If they think they can fill Jones' spot without much of a drop off, they won't think twice about dumping him for a guy that they think might develop. Otherwise, they may play it safe and resign him. IDK.

Without Woodson Bush might be just one injury away from seeing the field. I wouldn't be surprised at all either if Jones beats out DJ Smith for the backup ILB spot.

[sharpe1027]

Without Woodson Bush might be just one injury away from seeing the field. I wouldn't be surprised at all either if Jones beats out DJ Smith for the backup ILB spot.

Maybe, but that would assume they play him over either McMillian or Jennings (whichever is not hurt) and that they don't draft anyone better.

I would be somewhat surprised if Jones beats out Smith. Jones already lost his outside spot to three different guys (Perry, Walden and Moses) so they tried to move him inside where he stayed well behind Bishop and Smith. Don't forget that they drafted Manning last year and could always draft another LBer.

[smuggler]

DJ Smith easily has Jones beat, unless there's some lingering issue with his knee that affects his play.

[Fritz]

I was disappointed in Smith's play at the ILB spot. He was a second year guy - in the system long enough to learn - but he had little impact. He appears to be JAG.

[Smeefers]

If you have your third string ILB playing dime, you're in trouble.

[rbaloha1]

DJ Smith easily has Jones beat, unless there's some lingering issue with his knee that affects his play.

Agree. DJ only gets better with reps just like Bishop (not saying DJ is going to morph into another DB).

[3irty1]

He's back! per PFT. No news on the numbers yet.

Don't say Ted never bought you anything!

[pbmax]

Dime LB is back to make TEs disappear. Vernon Davis is on notice. :lol:

[pbmax]

This, I confess, gave me a little pause.

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 1h
The #Packers have re-signed linebacker Brad Jones. The team returns all seven of its prospective inside backers for next season

[woodbuck27]

He's back! per PFT. No news on the numbers yet.

Don't say Ted never bought you anything!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/21/brad-jones-returns-to-packers/

Brad Jones returns to Packers

Posted by Josh Alper on March 21, 2013, 5:54 PM EDT

[KYPack]

The other day I saw this blurb that said Jones was scheduled for a visit to Green Bay. I thought WTF, a "visit". He was here all year, wouldn't a visit be when he went to another team?

I'n semi-glad they signed him.

He's probably on his ceiling, but at least the guy knows the system & all.

I doubt he ever hits the promise he showed his rookie year, but with all these guys back in the inside, a couple of 'em outta rise to the top.

[red]

he's not a bad player

not great or starter material. but he is what he is and what we all know he is, a serviceable backup

[3irty1]

I'm not going to count him out as starter material, at least not on the inside. He's a top athlete for an inside linebacker and already has a decent body of work to build on. If this were baseball he'd be a 5 tool player, all he needs is experience IMO.

[Bretsky]

He's back! per PFT. No news on the numbers yet.

Don't say Ted never bought you anything!


Just recycled horseshit

[smuggler]

I'm glad we kept him, if the number is reasonable. I much prefer the heady play of Jones to that of the amnesiac known as Walden.

[3irty1]

Per Rotoworld:

3/21/2013: Signed a three-year, $11.75 million contract. Includes a $3 million signing bonus.

Waaaayyyyyyyyy more than I thought he'd be.

[pbmax]

Per Rotoworld:

3/21/2013: Signed a three-year, $11.75 million contract. Includes a $3 million signing bonus.

Waaaayyyyyyyyy more than I thought he'd be.

I wonder what Hawk thinks of that. I expected between 1-2 million per. Of course, that signing bonus prorates to a $1 million a year. So he could be a goner after one year easily.

[Patler]

I wonder what Hawk thinks of that. I expected between 1-2 million per. Of course, that signing bonus prorates to a $1 million a year. So he could be a goner after one year easily.

That is what the Packers are giving him, $1-2 million per year.
Hawk is giving him the rest!

[3irty1]

Well that's starter money. I'm thinking it'll be a fair fight this year when it comes to ILB spots.

[Patler]

I'm starting to wonder how confident they are in Bishop's recovery. I assume they are not counting on Smith for the start of the season, and I get the feeling they aren't counting on Bishop either.

[3irty1]

I'm starting to wonder how confident they are in Bishop's recovery. I assume they are not counting on Smith for the start of the season, and I get the feeling they aren't counting on Bishop either.

If you believe Bishop he said in a 1/13/13 Packers article that he was 60 to 80 percent at the time but was on track to be full go by OTA's.

[Old School]

They're always ready for full go until it's time to go. Tramon said he was OK. After a bad year he sad he wasn't 100%. Another bad year was followed by the same. I'm sure Bishop wants back in the worst way now that he finally won the starter job. How he has actually healed will tell the tale. The last 20% of healing can be a mountain.

I've had 2 back surgeries and 3 knee replacements. My back is awful, but my knees are great. I wore out one knee replacement. Been there; done that. I know rehab.

[Patler]

If you believe Bishop he said in a 1/13/13 Packers article that he was 60 to 80 percent at the time but was on track to be full go by OTA's.

But I don't believe him!

Seriously, I have heard time and time again from players and even the team that a recovery is ahead of schedule, or on track for the start of camp, etc. But when the time comes, the player sits. Last year we heard about Green being way ahead of schedule, it didn't turn out to mean much.

[3irty1]

Yeah I agree. My point is that we can be sure that he hasn't fully recovered yet.

Although if you view Jones as the new Brandon Chillar the numbers aren't unreasonable. We paid for 3 starting caliber guys back then too didn't we?

[denverYooper]

Yeah I agree. My point is that we can be sure that he hasn't fully recovered yet.

Although if you view Jones as the new Brandon Chillar the numbers aren't unreasonable. We paid for 3 starting caliber guys back then too didn't we?

I'd bet there's a good chance they think this + Jones can play inside or outside need be and is a core ST'er.

[pbmax]

I'm starting to wonder how confident they are in Bishop's recovery. I assume they are not counting on Smith for the start of the season, and I get the feeling they aren't counting on Bishop either.

There have been a couple reports that its no sure thing even at this stage of medical care. Hate to have him and Sherrod so iffy. And that status may last until camp.

[pbmax]

I'd bet there's a good chance they think this + Jones can play inside or outside need be and is a core ST'er.

T2 does do this occasionally, where he will let a player he likes and wants back go out and shop himself and then match the offer. Its all unofficial in this case, but Bush basically did the same thing. I wonder if he just says to the player, if you can prove it, I will pay it?

[Smeefers]

There have been a couple reports that its no sure thing even at this stage of medical care. Hate to have him and Sherrod so iffy. And that status may last until camp.

I haven't heard a thing on DJ Smith either. You've got your fingers in the know PB. What's the scoop? And where do you go to find out this stuff?

[pbmax]

I haven't heard a thing on DJ Smith either. You've got your fingers in the know PB. What's the scoop? And where do you go to find out this stuff?

If I have read anything about DJ, I have forgotten it. Which I would actually take as good news at this point. Most of the medical stuff I get from here, JSO and GBPG. Twitter helps when I miss something especially now that there are article limits at both papers websites.

[pbmax]

Brad Jones base salaries:

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
Per @NFLPLAYERS website, Brad Jones' base salaries are $1M in 2013, $2.5M in '14 and $3.5M in '15. @seankjensen reported $3M signing bonus.

He is 10th in average salary, but unless my math skills have deserted me, he can be cut after one year with little to no hit.

[denverYooper]

Brad Jones base salaries:

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
Per @NFLPLAYERS website, Brad Jones' base salaries are $1M in 2013, $2.5M in '14 and $3.5M in '15. @seankjensen reported $3M signing bonus.

He is 10th in average salary, but unless my math skills have deserted me, he can be cut after one year with little to no hit.

That seems to be the way to handle the Jones-types this offseason.

[MadScientist]

Brad Jones base salaries:

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
Per @NFLPLAYERS website, Brad Jones' base salaries are $1M in 2013, $2.5M in '14 and $3.5M in '15. @seankjensen reported $3M signing bonus.

He is 10th in average salary, but unless my math skills have deserted me, he can be cut after one year with little to no hit.
It would still be a $2M hit if he is cut after 1 year. Not huge, but not a nothing either.

[pbmax]

It would still be a $2M hit if he is cut after 1 year. Not huge, but not a nothing either.

Yes, but overall savings of $500,000 to cap. Its not ideal obviously, but it provides a viable out should something happen. Plus, you can split the hit between 14 and 15 now at any time once the new league year starts. So its a million dead money each year should they choose that option. Not a whole lot of risk.

[Patler]

Per Rotoworld:

3/21/2013: Signed a three-year, $11.75 million contract. Includes a $3 million signing bonus.

Waaaayyyyyyyyy more than I thought he'd be.


Brad Jones base salaries:

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
Per @NFLPLAYERS website, Brad Jones' base salaries are $1M in 2013, $2.5M in '14 and $3.5M in '15. @seankjensen reported $3M signing bonus.

He is 10th in average salary, but unless my math skills have deserted me, he can be cut after one year with little to no hit.

There must be another bonus of some sort, or the original report of $11.75M was a bit high. Salaries + signing bonus come up to $10M.

[Patler]

Yes, but overall savings of $500,000 to cap. Its not ideal obviously, but it provides a viable out should something happen. Plus, you can split the hit between 14 and 15 now at any time once the new league year starts. So its a million dead money each year should they choose that option. Not a whole lot of risk.

It's even more than that, isn't it? Or am I missing something?

2014 cap to keep him = $2.5M salary + $1M prorated signing bonus, for a total cap hit of $3.5.
2014 cap to release him is, at worst, the remaining $2M signing bonus.

They can cut him, pay a rookie and his dead money cap amount, and still save cap space compared to keeping him.

[Joemailman]

There must be another bonus of some sort, or the original report of $11.75M was a bit high. Salaries + signing bonus come up to $10M.

The deal includes a $300,000 roster bonus and a $200,000 workout bonus each year. JSO is calling it an $11.25 million deal which I thing adds up.

[Bretsky]

The deal includes a $300,000 roster bonus and a $200,000 workout bonus each year. JSO is calling it an $11.25 million deal which I thing adds up.


Crap contract for a JAG. We could have done way better for our money. The well is drying up and deals will be had after the draft. Good to see we got the J Bush of LB's locked up.

[Guiness]

3 years, near $12million. Damn close to the $/year Walden got. That doesn't seem like a coincidence, TT watched the market and gave Jones a market level deal.

[Joemailman]

I think Jones' contract reflects some concern over whether Bishop and/or D.J. Williams will be ready to start the season. He's going to be paid starter money. The Packers probably see a combination of Moses/Perry as preferable to Walden, so they were not willing to offer him a similar contract.

[George Cumby]

Crap contract for a JAG. We could have done way better for our money. The well is drying up and deals will be had after the draft. Good to see we got the J Bush of LB's locked up.

So who should have been signed instead of Jones?

JB of LB's is actually a compliment. I don't like JB on the field with the D but he's a damn fine STer.

[Bretsky]

So who should have been signed instead of Jones?

JB of LB's is actually a compliment. I don't like JB on the field with the D but he's a damn fine STer.

At four MIL a year, there will be a lot of guys we'd have been better off with. To me that is grossly overpaying a dude when a guy like TT is normall prudent.

Note I said after the draft there will be plenty of bargains. Come August you'll find five to ten players who signed for less that we'd rather have on this squad.

Am I the only one baffled by how much money we've given this guy ?

Everybody said Walden's was grossly overpaid. I don't get how we're not saying the same of Jones. Either the blinders have taken over IMO, or most don't take the deal seriously as a four year deal.

[sharpe1027]

I do not understand this. He is buried on the depth chart and unlikely to get any better at this point. He can play ST but that hardly makes him stand out at his position. I guess they had no better use for that money?

[Joemailman]

At four MIL a year, there will be a lot of guys we'd have been better off with. To me that is grossly overpaying a dude when a guy like TT is normall prudent.

Note I said after the draft there will be plenty of bargains. Come August you'll find five to ten players who signed for less that we'd rather have on this squad.

Am I the only one baffled by how much money we've given this guy ?

Everybody said Walden's was grossly overpaid. I don't get how we're not saying the same of Jones. Either the blinders have taken over IMO, or most don't take the deal seriously as a four year deal.

I am surprised by the deal. However, it could possibly end up a 1 year deal if he doesn't end up a starter. As I said earlier, I think they must be concerned about Bishop and Williams to give him this deal.

[Patler]

I don't think the Packers had much of a choice. Like it or not, Jones may be their most significant ILB at the present. Bishop may never be the same. Smith will likely start the season on the PUP list. Hawk is Hawk. After taking over as a starter, Jones essentially played every snap on defense, and that may not change in 2013. If it doesn't change, he will earn his pay. But, if it does change, and Bishop returns as he was and/or an inexperienced guy catches fire to the point that Jones becomes again mostly a ST guy, the Packers can release Jones without a crippling cap hit next year or anytime thereafter.

It is more than I thought they might pay him, but he apparently received a lot of interest from other teams. This is an effective contract for the Packers, and with average salaries around $2M/player, but with the Packers likely to have over half their team on their first contracts, the Jones contract isn't troublesome.

[3irty1]

He's far from buried on the depth chart. The contract he got is that of a LB coverage specialist. 3rd down studs are worth money. Remember when TT was inked Chillar for 5.66M per? Anyone who thinks Jones is just a guy needs to go back and watch him at the end of last year against the Vikings running step for step down the field with Adrian Peterson in coverage. He is as athletic and fluid as it gets at the linebacker position.

[sharpe1027]

He's far from buried on the depth chart. The contract he got is that of a LB coverage specialist. 3rd down studs are worth money. Remember when TT was inked Chillar for 5.66M per? Anyone who thinks Jones is just a guy needs to go back and watch him at the end of last year against the Vikings running step for step down the field with Adrian Peterson in coverage. He is as athletic and fluid as it gets at the linebacker position.

I think he was the very definition of buried. Who was behind him on the dept chart? He was last, or next to last, at his preferred position and remained that way even after they moved him inside where there was less depth. He only saw significant snaps after both Bishop and Smith were injured.

I agree that he's got speed so he can run with guys in coverage. Even so, Smith was playing passing downs before he got hurt. That says a lot.

[pbmax]

It is a bit odd. Hawk got money we didn't expect and so did Finley. One has big upside, the other is consistently what we have come to expect-average to good. But he doesn't get close to $4 mil unless he earns year three, when all the leverage is on the team's side.

Thompson has let players go before with no certain heir-apparent, though that might be more dependent on age than immediate cost (Clifton versus KGB).

Is he keeping pieces around to keep the puzzle complete for Rodgers' prime years?

I think its more likely uncertainty. Over Bishop, Smith and ST. With Walden gone and Hawk's pay cut, it doesn't kill the budget for ILB.

The market probably topped their expectations but the uncertainty was great enough that they did not want to have to find his skills in the youth on the roster. Which is a bit odd because we keep thinking Latimore or Francois will do something soon. But right now, both are cheap and unproven.

[Pugger]

I suppose I'd rather give that money to Jones than Walden.

[sharpe1027]

I don't think the Packers had much of a choice. Like it or not, Jones may be their most significant ILB at the present. Bishop may never be the same. Smith will likely start the season on the PUP list. Hawk is Hawk. After taking over as a starter, Jones essentially played every snap on defense, and that may not change in 2013. If it doesn't change, he will earn his pay. But, if it does change, and Bishop returns as he was and/or an inexperienced guy catches fire to the point that Jones becomes again mostly a ST guy, the Packers can release Jones without a crippling cap hit next year or anytime thereafter.

It is more than I thought they might pay him, but he apparently received a lot of interest from other teams. This is an effective contract for the Packers, and with average salaries around $2M/player, but with the Packers likely to have over half their team on their first contracts, the Jones contract isn't troublesome.

I really hope that they do not go in with Jones penciled in at #1, but this contract does suggest that might be the case. Maybe it is just me, but it seemed like he was involved in too many big plays last year. Unfortunately, the big plays were for the opposing team. :)

[sharpe1027]

I suppose I'd rather give that money to Jones than Walden.

True, but I'd also rather that they gave the money to me.

[3irty1]

I think he was the very definition of buried. Who was behind him on the dept chart? He was last, or next to last, at his preferred position and remained that way even after they moved him inside where there was less depth. He only saw significant snaps after both Bishop and Smith were injured.

I agree that he's got speed so he can run with guys in coverage. Even so, Smith was playing passing downs before he got hurt. That says a lot.

"He was buried" which is different than "He is buried." He might not have had a Bishop style break-out last year but between what he showed last year at ILB and Smith's ACL he's at worst a rotational player in a specialist role this season. That's not buried.

Its also worth noting that there will be a good amount of retooling among defenses this year with the emergence of the read option in the pros. There will especially be retooling on our defense which has featured Charles Woodson as a centerpiece in the past. Its hard to tell exactly how Brad Jones might fit into their future plans but based on his versatile skill-set and paycheck I don't think its a stretch to assume he does.

[Guiness]

It is more than I thought they might pay him, but he apparently received a lot of interest from other teams. This is an effective contract for the Packers, and with average salaries around $2M/player, but with the Packers likely to have over half their team on their first contracts, the Jones contract isn't troublesome.

Were other teams talking to him? I thought he would, he even showed up on a couple of 'top 100 FAs' lists, but I didn't hear about him having any visits, and with how long it took the Packers to sign him I figured the interest wasn't there. Certainly if anyone else wanted him there was ample opportunity.

[Bossman641]

Were other teams talking to him? I thought he would, he even showed up on a couple of 'top 100 FAs' lists, but I didn't hear about him having any visits, and with how long it took the Packers to sign him I figured the interest wasn't there. Certainly if anyone else wanted him there was ample opportunity.

Article I saw said that 9 teams had interest in Jones; 5 as a starting ILB. Jones' preference was to stay with GB and would need a significant offer from another team to go elsewhere.

Of course that is all coming from his agent so take it for what it's worth.

[Patler]

Were other teams talking to him? I thought he would, he even showed up on a couple of 'top 100 FAs' lists, but I didn't hear about him having any visits, and with how long it took the Packers to sign him I figured the interest wasn't there. Certainly if anyone else wanted him there was ample opportunity.

He did visit TN last week. The story (whether you want to believe it or not) is that 9 teams inquired and 5 showed significant interest. He told all that his strong preference was to stay in GB, so it would take a significant offer above GB's for him to move. Reports are that he negotiated with GB and 3 other teams last week.

I know, I know; rumors, lies and agent propaganda. But seems as plausible as any of the FA stories we hear. Probably some exaggeration in it, but something got his price tag up.

[sharpe1027]

"He was buried" which is different than "He is buried." He might not have had a Bishop style break-out last year but between what he showed last year at ILB and Smith's ACL he's at worst a rotational player in a specialist role this season. That's not buried.

Its also worth noting that there will be a good amount of retooling among defenses this year with the emergence of the read option in the pros. There will especially be retooling on our defense which has featured Charles Woodson as a centerpiece in the past. Its hard to tell exactly how Brad Jones might fit into their future plans but based on his versatile skill-set and paycheck I don't think its a stretch to assume he does.

Point made. How about "He should be buried"?

With any luck, retooling for the read option will involve keeping Jones off the field... ;)

[3irty1]

He did visit TN last week. The story (whether you want to believe it or not) is that 9 teams inquired and 5 showed significant interest. He told all that his strong preference was to stay in GB, so it would take a significant offer above GB's for him to move. Reports are that he negotiated with GB and 3 other teams last week.

I know, I know; rumors, lies and agent propaganda. But seems as plausible as any of the FA stories we hear. Probably some exaggeration in it, but something got his price tag up.

I think I remember reading once that Jones grew up a Packer fan. If so it makes sense that he'd have a strong preference to stay.

[Guiness]

Point made. How about "He should be buried"?

With any luck, retooling for the read option will involve keeping Jones off the field... ;)

Is 'should be buried' the same as 'should be shot and pissed on'?

Retooling for the read option would result in the opposite of what you are hopping for...Jones on the field a lot more, probably at the expense of Bishop, since Hawk generally covers better than Bishop does, and Jones is far better than either of them.

[sharpe1027]

Is 'should be buried' the same as 'should be shot and pissed on'?

Retooling for the read option would result in the opposite of what you are hopping for...Jones on the field a lot more, probably at the expense of Bishop, since Hawk generally covers better than Bishop does, and Jones is far better than either of them.

It could be...

Jones may be able to run with a TE better than Bishop, but he looked lost trying to do his part to stop the read option. I sincerely hope they can find a better solution.

[3irty1]

Point made. How about "He should be buried"?

With any luck, retooling for the read option will involve keeping Jones off the field... ;)

Well he's not the first person to look stupid chasing the wrong guy against a read-option offense. That's kind of the point to read the defenders and ensure that whatever they do is the wrong decision. What makes it hard to defend is that blockers are reading defenders as well. Assignments need to be changed dynamically or else its all too easy for an offense to ensure the guy responsible for the hand off is not in position to defend the hand off or the DE that goes for the QB goes unblocked to the backfield to find a QB who's already handed off against a favorable front.

Basically what I'm saying is that if the defense wasn't prepared for this kind of offense (which was pretty clearly the case) Jones could have played his assignments perfectly and still looked like a tard to us.

[smuggler]

I think Jones proved to be versatile, competent, and better than replacement level. That's worth what we paid, or at least close enough to it that I won't complain. Look at the other LB playing next to him (Hawk). He was playing at roughly the same level (with way more starting experience than Jones) and getting payed much more.

If he regresses to below-average or replacement level, cut him next year and it's essentially a 1 yr 4mil deal, which is okay in my book. If he continues to improve at ILB, cut Hawk instead.

[sharpe1027]

Well he's not the first person to look stupid chasing the wrong guy against a read-option offense. That's kind of the point to read the defenders and ensure that whatever they do is the wrong decision. What makes it hard to defend is that blockers are reading defenders as well. Assignments need to be changed dynamically or else its all too easy for an offense to ensure the guy responsible for the hand off is not in position to defend the hand off or the DE that goes for the QB goes unblocked to the backfield to find a QB who's already handed off against a favorable front.

Basically what I'm saying is that if the defense wasn't prepared for this kind of offense (which was pretty clearly the case) Jones could have played his assignments perfectly and still looked like a tard to us.

You are of course correct that the true responsibilities can be difficult for the casual fan to understand. All I can do is offer my opinion based upon my limited knowledge and understanding.

Let's just say that what I have seen of Jones does not make me very confident. He had a fast 40 time and a promising rookie year. Since then he has lost his starting spot and slipped deeper and deeper on the depth chart, only to resurface after a position change and multiple injuries.

[3irty1]

If Jones is to be the new Chillar I wonder if we'll see Capers resurrect that "Big Okie" formation where he had Chillar playing safety.

[Patler]

Let's just say that what I have seen of Jones does not make me very confident. He had a fast 40 time and a promising rookie year. Since then he has lost his starting spot and slipped deeper and deeper on the depth chart, only to resurface after a position change and multiple injuries.

On the other hand, he started 8 of the last 9 games in 2009, and 5 of the 6 games he played in at the start of 2010 before going on IR. In 2011 he got lost in the shuffle, then reemerged at a new position in 2012. He has played only 4 seasons, and lost part of his first and most of his second seasons to injuries. Throw in the position changes, which included switching sides at OLB as well as a start, stop and start again on his change to MLB, and it could be that he will still reach the promise he showed at times as a rookie.

He doesn't have a lot of chances left, but I think he still deserves an open mind from the fans going into 2013. Sort of like with a 2nd/3rd year player who is still learning.

[sharpe1027]

On the other hand, he started 8 of the last 9 games in 2009, and 5 of the 6 games he played in at the start of 2010 before going on IR. In 2011 he got lost in the shuffle, then reemerged at a new position in 2012. He has played only 4 seasons, and lost part of his first and most of his second seasons to injuries. Throw in the position changes, which included switching sides at OLB as well as a start, stop and start again on his change to MLB, and it could be that he will still reach the promise he showed at times as a rookie.

He doesn't have a lot of chances left, but I think he still deserves an open mind from the fans going into 2013. Sort of like with a 2nd/3rd year player who is still learning.

Without a doubt, but a 2nd/3rd year player that is still learning does not normally cost 4M/year.

[Patler]

Without a doubt, but a 2nd/3rd year player that is still learning does not normally cost 4M/year.

No, but a lot of 5th year players do. There are really two questions:

On the one hand, is Jones really JAG, or can he be more than that? This is the question I was addressing. His pay is not relevant to that discussion.

On the other hand, is he worth what he is paid? This isn't limited to the age of the player, nor whether he is JAG or not, so long as he is paid like JAG if he is one.

Obviously. Jones is being paid more than JAG should be paid. My point is that we shouldn't assume he won't earn it, because his first 4 years might not necessarily indicate the value of his contribution in 2013 or beyond.

[packrulz]

Keep in mind, 2012 was Jones first year starting at ILB. He only started 10 games, yet he had 77 tackles, 2 sacks, 4 passes defensed, and caused a fumble. I thought he improved as the season went on, he can play OLB in a pinch, and ST too, he'll earn his keep. http://www.packers.com/team/roster/Brad-Jones/f36a54e1-7045-4ce9-a9ad-ad4ba468acf0

[sharpe1027]

No, but a lot of 5th year players do. There are really two questions:

On the one hand, is Jones really JAG, or can he be more than that? This is the question I was addressing. His pay is not relevant to that discussion.

On the other hand, is he worth what he is paid? This isn't limited to the age of the player, nor whether he is JAG or not, so long as he is paid like JAG if he is one.

Obviously. Jones is being paid more than JAG should be paid. My point is that we shouldn't assume he won't earn it, because his first 4 years might not necessarily indicate the value of his contribution in 2013 or beyond.

Nothing wrong with any of that analysis. However, I never assumed that he wouldn't earn the salary. Hopefully he does, but there are reasons to be skeptical.

[Bretsky]

I suppose I'd rather give that money to Jones than Walden.

EZ answer here. C.. None of the above

[pbmax]

Think this was posted earlier but to recap:

JSO has Jones getting interest from five teams to start (3 still negotiating when he signed Packer offer). As Patler pointed out, this is the agent speaking, though he doesn't have a whole lot to gain AFTER getting the contract by playing up the interest.

But more importantly, Spoon makes the point that he is getting starters money to be the starter because Bishop is still a question mark and Smith will be midseason at best.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/199942871.html

[Guiness]

Think this was posted earlier but to recap:

JSO has Jones getting interest from five teams to start (3 still negotiating when he signed Packer offer). As Patler pointed out, this is the agent speaking, though he doesn't have a whole lot to gain AFTER getting the contract by playing up the interest.

But more importantly, Spoon makes the point that he is getting starters money to be the starter because Bishop is still a question mark and Smith will be midseason at best.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/199942871.html

Read some of the comments below?

I'm stupider for having done so. We are lucky here!

[Patler]

The funny thing is, if TT had signed the same contract with a player from another team, a player who started most of the season at ILB after having started a bunch of games at OLB, and who was a main cog in ST, fans would have been all excited about signing a versatile young player who seemed to be ascending.

[Fritz]

So the answer to that is easy. Cut him, then sign him as a FA, and everyone will be happy!

Good article in the JSO about Bill Polian's take on the annual off-season paper champion chase, which the Packers lose every year.

And for those who bring up Woodson and Pickett...neither of those signings was the open-walleted kind that so many Packer fans seem to pine for. Woodson shopped himself around and was signed to a very reasonable deal here - a typical TT move - and Pickett was seen at the time by the Rams as a slightly disappointing first-round pick. He didn't get too much interest on the open market, either.

These were classic Thompson-type free agent moves.

[3irty1]

No, but a lot of 5th year players do. There are really two questions:

On the one hand, is Jones really JAG, or can he be more than that? This is the question I was addressing. His pay is not relevant to that discussion.

On the other hand, is he worth what he is paid? This isn't limited to the age of the player, nor whether he is JAG or not, so long as he is paid like JAG if he is one.

Obviously. Jones is being paid more than JAG should be paid. My point is that we shouldn't assume he won't earn it, because his first 4 years might not necessarily indicate the value of his contribution in 2013 or beyond.

That's true. These guys don't get paid on commission, 4 million dollars is for what they expect him to do.

[sharpe1027]

The funny thing is, if TT had signed the same contract with a player from another team, a player who started most of the season at ILB after having started a bunch of games at OLB, and who was a main cog in ST, fans would have been all excited about signing a versatile young player who seemed to be ascending.

I probably am guilty of this.

[run pMc]

I probably am guilty of this.

Me too. I feel like it's a lot of money for a guy I think of as a backup/ST player, and I think people are still thinking about the contract TT gave Hawk. Does he overvalue LB's?

That said, I think TT is hedging against Bishop/Smith not coming back to play. The problems along the OL -- where there wasn't quite enough depth and had to shuffle around a gimpy Lang before they got lucky with Barclay -- might have taught him a lesson.

I'm in favor of GB having a truly open competition at ILB with Hawk, Bishop, Jones, Manning, Francois, Lattimore, Smith fighting it out, and letting the chips fall where they may.
Jones will be better at ILB with the experience, and he can play ST. If they don't feel like he's going to make it as a starter they can cut him without a huge cap hit.

I guess it balances out to a 'meh' signing for me, especially since he's not signed from another team and I still (erroneously?) see him as a backup.