Worst Packer Personnel Move Ever

[Fritz]

Those of you with a few years under your belt might think it was the Packers drafting Tony Mandarich and passing on a trio of Hall of Fame players who were chosen immediately afterward: Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas, and Deion Sanders.

Doh!

Nonetheless, that bonehead move pales in comparison to this one:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/195472911.html

I was fourteen when that trade went down, and even I knew it was a horrible, horrible trade. What hurts also is seeing that the Packers were thinking about Archie Manning. Most of you young'ns know only of Peyton and Eli, but their dad was a damn good quarterback hisself. He played for Mississippi in college, and I remember watching him once on t.v. and thinking he was really good.

What is interesting as well about the article is how casually Devine tossed around the names of other QB's they were considering trading for. No GM today that I know of would do such a thing. Imagine Ted trading for a guy, then actually providing a reporter with a list of the other guys at that position he was also thinking about trying to get instead.

And imagine Ted - or most any GM - saying that they didn't have to worry about replacing the draft picks they'd given up because the team has a bunch of guys in IR that would provide that depth. So no worries about giving up your first, second, and third round choices in the next draft, and your first and second rounders in the draft after that!

What did they get in return? A 34 year old QB, who ended up throwing nine td's and twenty-nine interceptions for the Pack. Yikes. That team was set back for a decade or so in part because of that trade.

Now that was the worst personnel move in Packer history.

[MadScientist]

Agreed. I was too young to know about the trade when it went down, but I do remember the sucky teams that followed. If Dan Devine was buried in Wisconsin his headstone would be an outhouse.

[3irty1]

I'll go with drafting Randall Woodfield in the 17th round of the 1974 NFL draft. He was a serial killer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Woodfield

[pbmax]

I'll go with drafting Randall Woodfield in the 17th round of the 1974 NFL draft. He was a serial killer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Woodfield

Its hard to compete with a personnel move that would lead the national Nightly News.

[Guiness]

Yup, that one is he worst. Worse than any FA signing, which only costs money. Worse than any draft pick, which, after all, ends up being just one pick. Who thought is was good idea to give up 5 picks for a 34 YEAR OLD? I'd be interested to see details of other trades from that era, was it common to give up multiple picks for a player? Wiki tells me the draft was 17 rounds pack then, so maybe picks weren't as valued. Although Mandarich sticks in everyone's mind as the worst pick, I was never so sure. It wasn't just the Packers he fooled, it was everyone. A pick that hurt the team at least as much was Rich Campbell.

For curiosity I tried to figure out who the Rams got with the picks from the Hadl trade (I know, rubbing salt in the wounds). I couldn't tell which was pick was the one they received in trade, but the Rams first round picks in '75 were Mike Fanning, Dennis Harrah and Doug France. Fanning had a ten year career, France was a 3x all-pro and Harrah was a 7x all-pro who started for 12 seasons! Any of those guys would've been pretty welcome on the Packers of the 70's I imagine. I looked at '76 as well, but it was hard to see what happened there as well - somehow the Packers got back into round 1.

Something in the article doesn't quite mesh. It states that the Packers gave up their 1st, 2nd and 3rd round choices in '75, then Devin is quoted as saying they only lost their 1st and 3rd choices, and have 2 2nd rounders left. I think he gave away so many picks, he forgot which ones, because looking at the draft the Packers only picked once in the 2nd!

[KYPack]

Yup, that one is he worst. Worse than any FA signing, which only costs money. Worse than any draft pick, which, after all, ends up being just one pick. Who thought is was good idea to give up 5 picks for a 34 YEAR OLD? I'd be interested to see details of other trades from that era, was it common to give up multiple picks for a player? Wiki tells me the draft was 17 rounds pack then, so maybe picks weren't as valued. Although Mandarich sticks in everyone's mind as the worst pick, I was never so sure. It wasn't just the Packers he fooled, it was everyone. A pick that hurt the team at least as much was Rich Campbell.

For curiosity I tried to figure out who the Rams got with the picks from the Hadl trade (I know, rubbing salt in the wounds). I couldn't tell which was pick was the one they received in trade, but the Rams first round picks in '75 were Mike Fanning, Dennis Harrah and Doug France. Fanning had a ten year career, France was a 3x all-pro and Harrah was a 7x all-pro who started for 12 seasons! Any of those guys would've been pretty welcome on the Packers of the 70's I imagine. I looked at '76 as well, but it was hard to see what happened there as well - somehow the Packers got back into round 1.

Something in the article doesn't quite mesh. It states that the Packers gave up their 1st, 2nd and 3rd round choices in '75, then Devin is quoted as saying they only lost their 1st and 3rd choices, and have 2 2nd rounders left. I think he gave away so many picks, he forgot which ones, because looking at the draft the Packers only picked once in the 2nd!
They got back in the first round with another screw-up. They got a first round pick from Oakland for Ted Hendricks. The Pack took Mark Koncar with that pick. A HOF OLB for a nudnick Tackle. That's the 70's Pack.

They really did have 3 2nd round picks. One went to the Rams & Devine fiddled one of 'em away trading it to Miami for Jim Del Gaizo ! (Remember that bum?).

The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it.

[woodbuck27]

From your LINK Fritz:

" Ironically, it was a poor showing against the Packers in Milwaukee Oct. 13 that led to Hadl's availability. He was the Rams' starter for that game, but he was replaced by James Harris after completing only 6 of 16 passes for 59 yards and throwing two interceptions.

The Packers went on to win the game, 17-6, and Harris was promoted to starting quarterback."

I'm speechless after reading the above except that was the beginning of a real sickness for the Green Bay Packers and .....

Did John Hadl age well?

[Guiness]

They got back in the first round with another screw-up. They got a first round pick from Oakland for Ted Hendricks. The Pack took Mark Koncar with that pick. A HOF OLB for a nudnick Tackle. That's the 70's Pack.

They really did have 3 2nd round picks. One went to the Rams & Devine fiddled one of 'em away trading it to Miami for Jim Del Gaizo ! (Remember that bum?).

The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it.

No, I don't remember him old timer! How do you have that information about their picks? Just from memory???

I wonder if the other NFL GMs of the time made the same sort of jokes about Devine as they did of his modern day counterpart, Matt Millen?

[Guiness]

From your LINK Fritz:

" Ironically, it was a poor showing against the Packers in Milwaukee Oct. 13 that led to Hadl's availability. He was the Rams' starter for that game, but he was replaced by James Harris after completing only 6 of 16 passes for 59 yards and throwing two interceptions.

The Packers went on to win the game, 17-6, and Harris was promoted to starting quarterback."

I'm speechless after reading the above except that was the beginning of a real sickness for the Green Bay Packers and .....

Did John Hadl age well?

Pretty funny that. Kick a guy's ass one week, then send the team 5 picks for him the next? Did no one on the board at that time go 'whoa, wait a minute here'?

[KYPack]

No, I don't remember him old timer! How do you have that information about their picks? Just from memory???

I wonder if the other NFL GMs of the time made the same sort of jokes about Devine as they did of his modern day counterpart, Matt Millen?

I remember some of the stuff, but most of it I look up on this site: (It's not a forum, Mad, just a solid Pack history site)

http://www.packershistory.net/

Yeah, the other GM's and front office types didn't think Devine was a fool, they damned well knew it.

Bart was a half assed GM, too & between the two of 'em they sold the 70's and early 80's down the river.

(Noticed after I posted, you meant the Packer Exec council)

Yeah, they thought he was a dickhead and a strange guy, right from the start. Devine had the exec council boys over to his house for a meet and greet (& drink a bunch of beer). Devine showed the boys his rec room, offered 'em a beer & proceeded to ignore them all night. He wouldn't talk to anybody, just played pool with his kids. It was a very un-Wisconsin thing to do and everybody got a bad impression of Devine right from the jump.

After that, things went steadily downhill.

[Guiness]

I remember some of the stuff, but most of it I look up on this site: (It's not a forum, Mad, just a solid Pack history site)

http://www.packershistory.net/

Wow, great site.

So picks #9, 28 and 61 in '75 went to the Rams, so it was Fanning, Monte Jackson (a pro-bowler) and a center named Geoff Reece. In '76 the Rams used pick #39 to get another Pro-Bowler in Pat Thomas. The Pack's pick at #117 was used by Houston to get a guy you might've heard about, Steve Largent! That pick went to Houston for Lynn Dickey, who they got after Hadl celebrated his 65th birthday and retired.

The site also reminded me why I dislike the Cowboys after looking at the 90's and seeing the three consecutive playoff losses to the Cowboys.

[Joemailman]

Bart Starr was one of my 4 boyhood sports heroes. But as a GM, his drafts were horrible (with Lofton being a notable exception) . So while the picks traded for Hadl were a terrible trade, I wonder if it would have mattered much given how Bart drafted. What I don't know is how much of the failure was him, and how much was scouting. After all, the Packers drafted poorly for about 20 years.

[hoosier]

The Pack's pick at #117 was used by Houston to get a guy you might've heard about, Steve Largent! That pick went to Houston for Lynn Dickey, who they got after Hadl celebrated his 65th birthday and retired.

Interestingly, getting Dickey was probably the best personnel move the Packers made in the 1970s. In hindsight, of course, Largent (and then Lofton) would have been amazing. But then the Hadl trade also figures in Houston's worst personnel move of the 70s: they draft Largent in the fourth round (what a find!) and then proceed to trade him to Seattle for a 7th (Oilers were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him). The Packer personnel department in the 70s was so bad it even cursed the teams who traded with them.

[KYPack]

Bart Starr was one of my 4 boyhood sports heroes. But as a GM, his drafts were horrible (with Lofton being a notable exception) . So while the picks traded for Hadl were a terrible trade, I wonder if it would have mattered much given how Bart drafted. What I don't know is how much of the failure was him, and how much was scouting. After all, the Packers drafted poorly for about 20 years.

Yeah, it's tough to figure out what caused all the bad drafts for sure.

Bob Harlan reached the conclusion that the HC was the GM model was to blame. There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

I agree.

So it's tough to tellwho was to blame for all the bad drafts.

[Guiness]

Interestingly, getting Dickey was probably the best personnel move the Packers made in the 1970s.

It was a good personnel move, it got the Pack a starting QB for a few years after Hunter, Tague and Hadl (even a blind squirrel...). I was just another example to show why draft picks can't be squandered. Of course, the odds of the Packers using that pick on Largent, and him becoming a HOF player in Green Bay are pretty slim even if they had the pick.

[Guiness]

Yeah, it's tough to figure out what caused all the bad drafts for sure.

Bob Harlan reached the conclusion that the HC was the GM model was to blame. There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

I agree.

So it's tough to tellwho was to blame for all the bad drafts.

Remind me again why the Packers gave Sherman double duties? Why it looks like Reid got it in Philly and looks to have the same thing in KC? His contract apparently gives him control over all football operations.

[woodbuck27]

Pretty funny that. Kick a guy's ass one week, then send the team 5 picks for him the next? Did no one on the board at that time go 'whoa, wait a minute here'?

Did no one on the board at that time go 'whoa, wait a minute here'?

All they had to do was put two thoughts together:

Aging and ...... shakey. Not exactly magical thinking. :?:

[red]

this was the hershel walker trade before hershel walker, and without any of the talent

it said he was 34, but in that picture from the link, he looks like he's in his 50's

[Fritz]

Yeah, it's tough to figure out what caused all the bad drafts for sure.

Bob Harlan reached the conclusion that the HC was the GM model was to blame. There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

I agree.

So it's tough to tellwho was to blame for all the bad drafts.

Why Hall of Fame players are terrible coaches and GM's.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, it's tough to figure out what caused all the bad drafts for sure.

Bob Harlan reached the conclusion that the HC was the GM model was to blame. There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

I agree.

So it's tough to tellwho was to blame for all the bad drafts.

For the record they drafted NT Charles Johnson who played for the Pack in1979,80,83. Joe Montana throwing to James Lofton would have been interesting, no?

[woodbuck27]

Yeah, it's tough to figure out what caused all the bad drafts for sure.

Bob Harlan reached the conclusion that the HC was the GM model was to blame. There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

I agree.

So it's tough to tell who was to blame for all the bad drafts.

The 1979 NFL Draft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_NFL_Draft

Rd 1 Pick 15 Green Bay Packers pick ... Eddie Lee Ivery - Running Back - Georgia Tech

Ivery played for eight seasons as a running back with the Green Bay Packers. He was forced to retire after suffering a leg injury.

Rd. 2 Pick 44 Green Bay Packers pick ... Steve Atkins - Running Back - Maryland

Atkins was drafted by the Green Bay Packers in the second round of the 1979 NFL Draft and two seasons for the team before splitting the 1981 NFL season with the Packers and the Philadelphia Eagles.

Rd. 3 Pick 71 Green Bay Packers pick ... Charles Johnson - Defensive Tackle - Maryland

Charles Adrian Johnson played three seasons for the Green Bay Packers.

Rd. 3 Pick 82 San Francisco 49ers pick ... Joe Montana - Quarterback - Notre Dame

Joe 'Joe Cool' Montana turned out to be pretty good in the NFL; after winning a college national championship at Notre Dame. Some will have a strong argument that Joe Montana was the best QB that ever played the game. A HOF quarterback (2000) in his first year of eligibility with the San Francisco 49ers and Kansas City Chiefs. While a member of the 49ers, Montana started in four Super Bowl games and won all of them. To check out his many career highlights and awards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Montana

Our next pick in the 1979 Draft was in Round Six (6):

Rd. 6 Pick 153 Green Bay Packers pick ... Dave Simmons - Linebacker - North Carolina

Simmons played that season (1979) with the team.The following season he was a member of the Detroit Lions. After a season away from the NFL, he played with the Baltimore Colts during the 1982 NFL season and the Chicago Bears during the 1983 NFL season.

PACKERS !

[Guiness]

For the record they drafted NT Charles Johnson who played for the Pack in1979,80,83. Joe Montana throwing to James Lofton would have been interesting, no?

I wonder what he did during '81 and '82? Maybe someone should ask him. Or shoot his dog.

[MadScientist]

There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

He did a similar move when he took noodle arm Rich Campbell over Ronnie Lott, even though the regional scout was saying that RC was no good. He didn't learn from his mistakes and was not a good talent evaluator.

[Joemailman]

He did a similar move when he took noodle arm Rich Campbell over Ronnie Lott, even though the regional scout was saying that RC was no good. He didn't learn from his mistakes and was not a good talent evaluator.

If not for Bart Starr, the 49ers dynasty might never have happened. :lol:

[woodbuck27]

Most of us will recall the man we drafted that never came around. Jamal Reynolds, picked at No. 10 overall in the 2001 Draft. Jamal Reynolds once referred to himself as "the greatest defensive end the world has ever seen, period." This fella looked so good and he saw that. :wink:

That was one of the worst first round picks I've experienced as a fan but this might have toped it:

In the 1969 Draft the Packers selected a DT named Rich Moore 12th overall out of Villanova University. A first team tackle on the East Coast Athletic Conference all-conference team in 1968, his senior season. Rich Moore played for two seasons with the Packers. He tore an Achilles tendon in a win over the Philadelphia Eagles (1970), and had surgery putting him out for the season. After trying him on offense during training camp in 1971, the Packers traded him to the New England Patriots for linebacker John Bramlett in late July of 1971.

An Overall Look At The 1969 Packers Draft:

Rich Moore's selection is still remembered by Packers fans and observers as one of the most ill-fated in team history and as one of the most disappointing Packers draft picks of all time inspite of of his career-ending injury.

Packers' head coach Phil Bengtson overruled personnel director Pat Peppler, who had rated other players higher and who thought Moore would be available later in the draft. Peppler later said, "Rich Moore was a disaster. Phil Bengtson fell in love with his size."

Three players available when the Packers took Moore became HOFers: Roger Wehrli, Ted Hendricks and Charlie Joiner.

Also passed up were Fred Dryer, Calvin Hill and Ed White.

The 1969 Packers draft was a weak one overall as their next pick, second round choice Dave Bradley, played in only 16 games in a career that ended in 1972. By 1974 not one 1969 Packers pick remained on the team. Only 9th round choice Dave Hampton was in the NFL at all by 1975, finishing his NFL career with the Falcons and Eagles in 1976.

That was a lousy draft.

[ThunderDan]

The 1969 Packers draft was a weak one overall as their next pick, second round choice Dave Bradley, played in only 16 games in a career that ended in 1972. By 1974 not one 1969 Packers pick remained on the team. Only 9th round choice Dave Hampton was in the NFL at all by 1975, finishing his NFL career with the Falcons and Eagles in 1976.

That was a lousy draft.

If not for the 6th and 7th round picks in 2004 that would have probably ranked equal if not ahead of that one.

Ahmad Carroll, Joey Thomas, Donnell Washington, BJ Sanders, Corey Williams and Scott Wells.

Or 2003, Nick Barnett, Kenny Peterson, James Lee, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford, Steve Josue.

Two year in a row Shermy hits 1 or 2 players. No wonder why we had a lack of talent to surround BF for a while.

[woodbuck27]

I recall this one as a strange story being a Packer fan and a CFL fan as well.

In 1980 The Green Bay Packers were surprized by their first selection in that draft. An All American out of Penn State named Bruce Clark. Bruce Clark won the Lombardi Award as a junior in 1978. He became the first junior to win the coveted award as the best college defensive lineman or linebacker. He was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American in 1978 (Junior), and as a senior in 1979.

Bruce Clark was considered to be an immediate star in the NFL.

The Green Bay Packers GM Bart Starr may have had him already penciled in on his DL when he selected him 4th overall in the 1980 draft. It's best to really check things out before you make a final decision. Bruce Clark refused to play with the Green Bay Packers. He chose a different life strategy that included playing football in Canada (the CFL).

Instead of the Packers he opted for the Toronto Argonauts for the 1980 and 1981 seasons. He was a CFL All Star in 1980. As a Pro Bruce Clark played Defensive End.

In 1982 Bruce Clark jumped to the NFL and signed with the NO Saints where he played until 1988. He made the pro Bowl in 1984. He played with the KC Chiefs in 1989 and ended his football career with the Barcelona Dragons (WLAF) in 1991.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

If not for the 6th and 7th round picks in 2004 that would have probably ranked equal if not ahead of that one.

Ahmad Carroll, Joey Thomas, Donnell Washington, BJ Sanders, Corey Williams and Scott Wells.

Or 2003, Nick Barnett, Kenny Peterson, James Lee, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford, Steve Josue.

Two year in a row Shermy hits 1 or 2 players. No wonder why we had a lack of talent to surround BF for a while.

Yes that's a brutal list TD.

So much hope here:

Ahmad Carroll (grabby), Joey Thomas (health), Donnell Washington ( the right body but...), BJ Sanders (yikes !!!!!), Corey Williams and Scott Wells .... OK.

Nick Barnett .... OK,

! Ucccchhh ! >>>! Kenny Peterson, James Lee, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford, Steve Josue. !<<< ! Ucccchhh !

PACKERS !

[red]

yup, that pretty much sums up the packers of the 70's and 80's

guy would rather play in fucking canada then play for us

very sad

[woodbuck27]

yup, that pretty much sums up the packers of the 70's and 80's

guy would rather play in fucking canada then play for us

very sad

I'm digging to try to get to the guts of that story red. Why exactly Bruce Clark elected to take his skills to the CFL? That rather shocking story is fuzzy to me now. :smile:

[Pugger]

Yeah, it's tough to figure out what caused all the bad drafts for sure.

Bob Harlan reached the conclusion that the HC was the GM model was to blame. There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

I agree.

So it's tough to tellwho was to blame for all the bad drafts.

Yes, but Harlan was stupid enough to forgo that and give freaking Mike Sherman both jobs! Thankfully he finally took the GM duties away and hired TT.

[Joemailman]

Yes, but Harlan was stupid enough to forgo that and give freaking Mike Sherman both jobs! Thankfully he finally took the GM duties away and hired TT.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a54207/article/bob-harlan-regrets-making-mike-sherman-packers-gm


"I think it was the worst decision I made, quite honestly," Harlan told Green & Gold Today on Tuesday, via ESPNMilwaukee.com.

Harlan always believed coaching and GM duties should be kept separate, but he wrestled with the notion of replacing Wolf with an outsider. Sherman and Wolf had worked well together, and Harlan was reluctant to shake things up.

"I was concerned that if a new man came in from the outside, (Sherman) might have trouble getting along with him, (or) the new man might want to come in and want to totally change the scouting staff, which I thought was a capable young scouting staff. And so I decided to do something that I don't like to do -- give one man both jobs," Harlan said. "And (Sherman) didn't hurt us on the field -- we went 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6. (He) did a great job of coaching. But it got to the point when we started having problems with players that he almost seemed to be ignoring the team."

Harlan apparently felt there was no one in the organization groomed to replace Wolf. Ted Thompson was in Seattle by this time.

[Kiwon]

My instant reaction about the worst moves (just from memory...)

1. Hadl trade
2. Tony Mandarich selection
3. Sherman as HC and GM (after denying that role to Holmgren)
4. Not paying Craig Hentrich his FA money
5. Tie: Selection of BJ Sander and Cletidus Hunt FA contract

[red]

My instant reaction about the worst moves (just from memory...)

1. Hadl trade
2. Tony Mandarich selection
3. Sherman as HC and GM (after denying that role to Holmgren)
4. Not paying Craig Hentrich his FA money
5. Tie: Selection of BJ Sander and Cletidus Hunt FA contract

the sherman/holmgren thing always burned me, giving a below average coach full control after telling a good coach that he couldn't have it

things might have been a lot different if we had just given full control to holmgren and kept him

and it turned out holmgren wasn't half bad doing that job in seattle, meanwhile, sherman blew at it

[pbmax]

the sherman/holmgren thing always burned me, giving a below average coach full control after telling a good coach that he couldn't have it

things might have been a lot different if we had just given full control to holmgren and kept him

and it turned out holmgren wasn't half bad doing that job in seattle, meanwhile, sherman blew at it

I am not sure Holmgren was cut out for it, but he would have been a better GM than Sherman.

The question is whether he would have adapted his O, or try to FA or draft his way out of a talent slump. Without A Green, there wasn't a lot of firepower for Favre to pitch it to on the edges. Oddly, if you assume A Green's presence, Sherman might have been the better O coach for the talent. Defensive side would have been interesting with Fritz getting sick.

[Joemailman]

the sherman/holmgren thing always burned me, giving a below average coach full control after telling a good coach that he couldn't have it

things might have been a lot different if we had just given full control to holmgren and kept him

and it turned out holmgren wasn't half bad doing that job in seattle, meanwhile, sherman blew at it

Holmgren's success at Seattle occurred after he was stripped of the GM duties. He couldn't do both jobs. He also failed as an executive at Cleveland. He was a good coach. Only. Besides, was Harlan supposed to fire the GM who turned the franchise around and give the job to Holmgren? If Holmgren had stayed here as coach instead of being such an egotistical jerk we could have ended up with him as coach and Ted Thompson as GM once Wolf was ready to retire.

[pbmax]

Holmgren's success at Seattle occurred after he was stripped of the GM duties. He couldn't do both jobs. He also failed as an executive at Cleveland. He was a good coach. Only. Besides, was Harlan supposed to fire the GM who turned the franchise around and give the job to Holmgren? If Holmgren had stayed here as coach instead of being such an egotistical jerk we could have ended up with him as coach and Ted Thompson as GM once Wolf was ready to retire.

To be fair to Mike1, he went to the Super Bowl as coach only but with a lot of guys he choose. Whathisface the GM after Mike1/T2 was only there for a year prior.

The real question is of course for the guy who never gets grilled about the few boneheaded things he did: why did Wolf hang around for exactly one more year (plus M2's apprenticeship) after Holmgren left?

[Joemailman]

To be fair to Mike1, he went to the Super Bowl as coach only but with a lot of guys he choose. Whathisface the GM after Mike1/T2 was only there for a year prior.

The real question is of course for the guy who never gets grilled about the few boneheaded things he did: why did Wolf hang around for exactly one more year (plus M2's apprenticeship) after Holmgren left?

Either he was a bad GM or having to do both roles decreased hie effectiveness as a coach. When doing both roles, he was sub .500. As coach only, he won about 65% of the time with 3 Super Bowl appearances. In my opinion, the contrast is too stark to be a coincidence.

When Wolf retired, he said he no longer had the energy to do the job the way it needed to be done. While many have questioned if that was the real reason, two things suggest he was telling the truth. First, his last draft was undeniably his worst. Second he never took another major job with another team after stepping away from the Packers.

[RUnuts]

The Mandarich pick is a prime example of what a crap shoot the draft is. As I recall and correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 other GMs thought the packers made a great choice in picking him, he was thought of as a "can't lose" pick.

I'm not sure if it was possible to know about a college player's steroid use back then but I remember he was about 20 to 25 lbs lighter when he finally showed up in training camp.

[Patler]

Bruce Clark had made suggestions before the draft that he didn't want to play in GB (and I think a couple other places, too) and that he would go to Canada instead of playing where he didn't want to play. I remember thinking at the time that the Packers were calling his bluff. It was no bluff.

Clark wasn't a complete loss. The Packers traded his rights to NO, and I think drafted Tim Lewis with the draft pick from NO. Tim Lewis was well on his way to being one of the best CBs in the league when a neck injury ended his career.

Mandarich turned out bad, but you can't fault the selection at the time. As someone mentioned above, another GM said later that all but a few teams who had stud LTs would have taken Mandarich, too. He was thought of as being as close to can't miss as there can be.

[Pugger]

The Mandarich pick is a prime example of what a crap shoot the draft is. As I recall and correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 other GMs thought the packers made a great choice in picking him, he was thought of as a "can't lose" pick.

I'm not sure if it was possible to know about a college player's steroid use back then but I remember he was about 20 to 25 lbs lighter when he finally showed up in training camp.

Yes, Tony had a lot of other GMs hoodwinked. Once he was off the juice he was pretty bad. He did resurrect his career in Indy and was a decent guard for them for 3 seasons after he got clean.

[woodbuck27]

Bruce Clark had made suggestions before the draft that he didn't want to play in GB (and I think a couple other places, too) and that he would go to Canada instead of playing where he didn't want to play. I remember thinking at the time that the Packers were calling his bluff. It was no bluff.

Clark wasn't a complete loss. The Packers traded his rights to NO, and I think drafted Tim Lewis with the draft pick from NO. Tim Lewis was well on his way to being one of the best CBs in the league when a neck injury ended his career.

Mandarich turned out bad, but you can't fault the selection at the time. As someone mentioned above, another GM said later that all but a few teams who had stud LTs would have taken Mandarich, too. He was thought of as being as close to can't miss as there can be.

" Bruce Clark had made suggestions before the draft that he didn't want to play in GB (and I think a couple other places, too) and that he would go to Canada instead of playing where he didn't want to play. I remember thinking at the time that the Packers were calling his bluff. It was no bluff."

Yes Patler that's the way it comes back to me. It was a real shocker that Bruce Clark actually signed with the Toronto Argo's; a big CFL story and coup for the Argo's and league.

[pbmax]

Either he was a bad GM or having to do both roles decreased hie effectiveness as a coach. When doing both roles, he was sub .500. As coach only, he won about 65% of the time with 3 Super Bowl appearances. In my opinion, the contrast is too stark to be a coincidence.

When Wolf retired, he said he no longer had the energy to do the job the way it needed to be done. While many have questioned if that was the real reason, two things suggest he was telling the truth. First, his last draft was undeniably his worst. Second he never took another major job with another team after stepping away from the Packers.

Agree about doing both making him a worse coach. My point was that he did collect some fine players along the way. It did help having higher draft picks from the poor record. Ruskell did spend some money to fill a few holes. It then blew up in his face.

I just find it hard to imagine Wolf ran out of steam in that particular year. Not only hasn't he taken another job, but he also has not been sick. He must have known he was close to retiring when Holmgren was talking about moving on. It might be just too much to ask someone as successful and well-paid as Wolf to time his departure at the employers maximum convenience. And wasn't his last draft the Reynolds debacle? I think that was more Sherman shopping from a list rather than Wolf getting tired.

[Joemailman]

Ah yes, the Jamal Reynolds debacle. Was that Wolf's pick, and evidence that he was right to retire? Or was that Sherman's pick and just the first instance of Sherman reaching in the draft to fill a need?

I remember reading that an unidentified member of the Packer organization said that they were surprised how small Reynolds was when he showed up for minicamps. Isn't that something that would get noticed at the Combine? Chad Clifton made that guy absolutely disappear in training camp scrimmages.

[swede]

Ah yes, the Jamal Reynolds debacle. Was that Wolf's pick, and evidence that he was right to retire? Or was that Sherman's pick and just the first instance of Sherman reaching in the draft to fill a need?

I remember reading that an unidentified member of the Packer organization said that they were surprised how small Reynolds was when he showed up for minicamps. Isn't that something that would get noticed at the Combine? Chad Clifton made that guy absolutely disappear in training camp scrimmages.

I was at a TC practice that year when Jamaal walked past in a wife-beater, having already stripped off his gear. It would be a stretch to think he weighed any more than 235 pounds, even at his height. He was tall and really thin. Thin in his hips, waist, legs, shoulders, and neck. He had a little bit of a chest but the latissimus and traps weren't there.

That fail cost us, because it directly led to the Joe Johnson debacle, over-paying Cletidus, and reaching for a bunch of never wuzzes with our mid-round picks for the next few years

Still, the Hadl trade was the worst ever.

As far as draft picks Tony Mandarich was easily the most memorable bad pick, but Jamal Reynolds and Jon Michaels were pretty bad too.

[Freak Out]

I was at a TC practice that year when Jamaal walked past in a wife-beater, having already stripped off his gear. It would be a stretch to think he weighed any more than 235 pounds, even at his height. He was tall and really thin. Thin in his hips, waist, legs, shoulders, and neck. He had a little bit of a chest but the latissimus and traps weren't there.

That fail cost us, because it directly led to the Joe Johnson debacle, over-paying Cletidus, and reaching for a bunch of never wuzzes with our mid-round picks for the next few years

Still, the Hadl trade was the worst ever.

As far as draft picks Tony Mandarich was easily the most memorable bad pick, but Jamal Reynolds and Jon Michaels were pretty bad too.

The Hadl trade was an absolute debacle....but I was young and didnt really know how bad it was then....all I know is I wanted Barry Sanders over anyone else in the draft when they took the Bulk. I didn't know he was a phony but knew Sanders had the skills to be a game changer.

[swede]

The Hadl trade was an absolute debacle....but I was young and didnt really know how bad it was then....all I know is I wanted Barry Sanders over anyone else in the draft when they took the Bulk. I didn't know he was a phony but knew Sanders had the skills to be a game changer.

You wonder if there was some point in the prior season when Green Bay snatched defeat from the jaws of some victory and lost their chance to miss out on Mandarich and luck into Barry Sanders or Derek Thomas or Deion Sanders.

sigh

[Kiwon]

You wonder if there was some point in the prior season when Green Bay snatched defeat from the jaws of some victory and lost their chance to miss out on Mandarich and luck into Barry Sanders or Derek Thomas or Deion Sanders.

sigh

Hmmm....I'd take Derek Thomas over the others.

Barry Sanders on the Frozen Tundra ain't the same as Barry Sanders on the artificial turf of Pontiac. Deion Sanders of that era would have been a locker room disaster. I doubt 'Neon Deion' would have wanted to be in small-market Green Bay anyway. Packer fans would be all over him for trying to play two sports also.

[KYPack]

Ah yes, the Jamal Reynolds debacle. Was that Wolf's pick, and evidence that he was right to retire? Or was that Sherman's pick and just the first instance of Sherman reaching in the draft to fill a need?

I remember reading that an unidentified member of the Packer organization said that they were surprised how small Reynolds was when he showed up for minicamps. Isn't that something that would get noticed at the Combine? Chad Clifton made that guy absolutely disappear in training camp scrimmages.

Neither Wolf nor Sherm would take the blame for that one. Both of 'em said the other dude did it.

The Reynolds pick was a demonstration of a fact that every GM knows.
You are drafting college boys. It all changes when they get in there with the men.

Reynolds was a skinny, weak little shit.

He didn't have close to the heart it takes to be a DE in the pros.

[Badgerinmaine]

I realize that he blew an Achilles tendon in his second year, but drafting Rich Moore as the 12th pick in the draft in 1969 has to be on the list. Fred Dryer was the next pick, and they could have had any of three future hall of famers at that pick too, as well as a bunch of guys who played well for a long time. Moore played 20 games total in his career. Phil Bengtson took him over the wishes of everyone else because he liked how big he was.

[Brandon494]

Drafting AJ Hawk with a top 5 pick. :jig: