Derek Sherrod Health Speculation

[pbmax]

This description makes sense of how the Packers left the door open for Sherrod last year, PUP plus 3 weeks of practice off roster.

But has anyone read this elsewhere? Or does anyone know enough about this injury to confirm? Is it really just a matter of trust? Because I read that and immediately suspect we are in "fast healer" medical reportage territory.


The question with Sherrod is whether or not he can overcome the mental hurdle to trust a surgically repaired leg. In 2012 Sherrod was healthy physically, but unable to play because of his lack of ability to trust his legs to run, cut, and explode at full speed. This coming season will be different for Sherrod, as he will be more than a year removed from the injury and should be able to play as he did before the injury, giving the Packers a boost in pass blocking.

from: http://packerstalk.com/2013/04/06/key-to-packers-offense-may-be-derek-sherrod/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Willard]

This is just like that episode of Happy Days when Fonzi tore up his knee and then was afraid to put weight on it during rehab. Sherrod needs to watch that episode for inspiration. That oughta do it.

[woodbuck27]

This description makes sense of how the Packers left the door open for Sherrod last year, PUP plus 3 weeks of practice off roster.

But has anyone read this elsewhere? Or does anyone know enough about this injury to confirm? Is it really just a matter of trust? Because I read that and immediately suspect we are in "fast healer" medical reportage territory.



from: http://packerstalk.com/2013/04/06/key-to-packers-offense-may-be-derek-sherrod/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I've suffered a similiar injury. A break to the fibula and tibia just below the patela. That complicated with damage to the foot bones. I was in casts for about 4 months. It takes about one year after the casts are gone to rehabilitate to the point any real strength is recovered. Any physical confidence returns. You have to work your tail off also to get there.

All that is moot considering where Derek Sherrod is now.

Let's wind it back.

How many games did Derek Sherrd start at LT in his Rookie campaign? How are the Green Bay Packers doing with their LT position? The Green Bay Packers are terrible at LT. The concern there is huge.

Do any of you truly believe that a man (Derek Sherrod) that couldn't beat out a guard (Marshall Newhouse) in 2011 for the LT position. Will be 'after this serious injury'; magically able to be our LT in 2013?

Forget about the question of any upside and Derek Sherrod. Forget about any Derek Sherrod being our strong LT. If you're confident in Derek Sherrod. Please inform me of how you arrived there? What inspires you to such confidence?

What's this season all about? Seeing about this and checking on that?

Does it have anything realistically to do with getting to this next Super Bowl? It doesn't appear so to me. There are too many check points being missed to arrive at any other conclusion. In this off season our Teams GM is basically on hold if not reverse.

Back to the question of any Derek Sherrod and the Packers OL.

I see it clearly this way. We're sucking wind with our OL period. That OL allowed an ugly 51 Sacks in 2012. If your into magical thinking and/or believe the same personnel plus a ready to go Derek Sherrod is going to keep Aaron Rodgers off his ass on the field.

The world has got to love you.

I believe we need on the OL...NOW! I believe that need starts at a very important position.... LT.

GO PACK GO !

[red]

my opinion of him just dropped even lower

so he's mentally weak?

[woodbuck27]

my opinion of him just dropped even lower

so he's mentally weak?

Who's mentally weak? I've no opinion and that RE: Derek Sherrod.

Derek Sherrod was an excellent student as well as a very good LT in college.

Derek Sherrod was named a National Football Foundation Scholar-Athlete and was a finalist for the William V. Campbell Trophy.

His injury was sadly disappointing and personally devastating.

I've gone through that windmill. It's a huge setback and really plays with your mind and confidence. I assume he's giving his best. I wish him so much good luck. He has had and has a montain to climb.

I simply believe that if Ted Thompson is real and has a shot at a decent LT as a value pick. He had better not hesitate making that pick.

Our need at LT is obvious/huge.

PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Mentally tough? I don't think that is what the columnist is getting at. Plus its a second or third hand summation, so he likely has no definite info here. But McCarthy did start his comments about Sherrod with "we have to get him out of medical" which could mean he doesn't feel ready when the staff thinks he is.

I initially put this in the Mike Flanagan comeback bin for comparison. Flanny had a worse injury (did have nerve damage like DS) and it took two full seasons for him to comeback. One reporter said, or recalled when Flanagan first came back to practice, he looked so awkward running and moving around, even limping when walking, that he could not imagine him playing again. But play he did.

So I think its a matter of time and retraining that leg while moving naturally on grass, not working out in the gym with a Cybex machine or what-have-you.

But this is the reason I posted this writers summation. Was he fully cleared for contact in practices late last year?

[red]

yeah, but the two years of NFL experience he's already lost is huge

as a team and a coach, m3 has to, not force, but maybe push a guy like that harder. if he's cleared medically, and there's no risk of further injury, then he has to be out there working on his game, not sitting in an ice bath or hot tub every day

where's the line drawn between being scarred of your injury which is healed, and just being lazy and sitting around collecting a big pay check for doing nothing?

hearing that he was fine and just not mentally ready has me a whole hell of a lot more worried then thinking he was just hurt for so long

[wist43]

I'd be surprised if we got anything out of Sherrod... even before he got hurt he looked much more like a bartender than a 1st rd pick. I've already written him off.

TT won't invest in another OT early if for no other reason than Sherrod still has to prove he's a no-hoper. That should happen this year... so OT will be at the top of our wishlist next year.

[Mazzin]

The way I look at it is, I trust Ted Thompson. At the time we drafted DS I was like WTH who is this guy in the first? Although that has happened on many occasions I.E. Nick Collins, Greg Jennings, Terrance Murphy (looked good before injury got him to) With all of that said for Thompson to have drafted him that high, he has to have talent, and with him not playing he will be CHEAP to resign when the time comes. I hope he turns it around because if he does we can get a discount at LT for a few years. :)

[woodbuck27]

I'd be surprised if we got anything out of Sherrod... even before he got hurt he looked much more like a bartender than a 1st rd pick. I've already written him off.

TT won't invest in another OT early if for no other reason than Sherrod still has to prove he's a no-hoper. That should happen this year... so OT will be at the top of our wishlist next year.

That and maybe he simply realizes that he hasn't exactly had terrific success picking on the OL.

This draft sucks at Center this year, in terms of depth. Maybe we're adding (along with OT) Center too for the 2014 draft. Maybe next season they'll really really want a running game with a really real RB. There's a very strong possibility we'll need at TE in the 2014 draft.

Round One:

The Green Bay Packers may have to tear up the go big on the DL and OL ...plus WR... plus DB blueprint in the early rounds. Instead opt for playmakers that put up points on the scoreboard. I know it sucks to go RB in round one but maybe the fact that an Eddie Lacy is there turns that around. If he has a solid Pro day (runs a 4.5-4.65 sec. 40) he could get gobbled up before pick#26. That might put TE Tyler Eifert in play. Certainly that in a BPA scenario based on some grades he's received. He must 'of course' really want to have an NFL career in Green Bay.

I've been thinking 'D' again for rounds 1 and 2. That #26 pick seems awkward to me this season, as I do my analysis. It always seems to get back to TE and Tyler Eifert @ # 26 and going big/wide/strong body DT @ pick #55. Again you have to look at offensive philosophy and look at RB and WR as well at #26.

Round Two:

Screw the grade and look for either John Jenkins or Brandon Williams at #55. Either one of these fellas do two things:

a) Give both Ryan Pickett and BJ Raji a rest before they burn out at seasons end.

b) Allow defensive sets that allow BJ Raji to make plays. That would make him happy.

Round Three:

It's seems to be getting around that the Steelers are interested in Montee Ball. There are loads of lies out there in April. Montee Ball generally grades out as a third round pick. He might very well go in round two.

If Pittsburg passes on him or goes in a different direction at RB. Would anyone here be really pissed if Ted Thompson took Montee ball at #88, assuming of course that he's still on the board?

After three picks then we would have:

Rd.1 Pick #26 *** RB Eddie Lacy or RB Tyler Eifert (and this option isn't really glorious). So many options at #26 have something wrong with them.

Rd. 2 Pick #55 *** DT John Jenkins or Brandon Williams.

Rd. 3 Pick # 88 *** RB Montee Ball. I'm also among other RB's. Assessing RB Le'Veon Bell, Michigan State. A certain member here might not like that choice. ;-)

PACKERS !

[Bretsky]

That and maybe he simply realizes that he hasn't exactly had terrific success picking on the OL.

This draft sucks at Center this year, in terms of depth. Maybe we're adding (along with OT) Center too for the 2014 draft. Maybe next season they'll really really want a running game with a really real RB. There's a very strong possibility we'll need at TE in the 2014 draft.

Round One:

The Green Bay Packers may have to tear up the go big on the DL and OL ...plus WR... plus DB blueprint in the early rounds. Instead opt for playmakers that put up points on the scoreboard. I know it sucks to go RB in round one but maybe the fact that an Eddie Lacy is there turns that around. If he has a solid Pro day (runs a 4.5-4.65 sec. 40) he could get gobbled up before pick#26. That might put TE Tyler Eifert in play. Certainly that in a BPA scenario based on some grades he's received. He must 'of course' really want to have an NFL career in Green Bay.

I've been thinking 'D' again for rounds 1 and 2. That #26 pick seems awkward to me this season, as I do my analysis. It always seems to get back to TE and Tyler Eifert @ # 26 and going big/wide/strong body DT @ pick #55. Again you have to look at offensive philosophy and look at RB and WR as well at #26.

Round Two:

Screw the grade and look for either John Jenkins or Brandon Williams at #55. Either one of these fellas do two things:

a) Give both Ryan Pickett and BJ Raji a rest before they burn out at seasons end.

b) Allow defensive sets that allow BJ Raji to make plays. That would make him happy.

Round Three:

It's seems to be getting around that the Steelers are interested in Montee Ball. There are loads of lies out there in April. Montee Ball generally grades out as a third round pick. He might very well go in round two.

If Pittsburg passes on him or goes in a different direction at RB. Would anyone here be really pissed if Ted Thompson took Montee ball at #88, assuming of course that he's still on the board?

After three picks then we would have:

Rd.1 Pick #26 *** RB Eddie Lacy or RB Tyler Eifert (and this option isn't really glorious). So many options at #26 have something wrong with them.

Rd. 2 Pick #55 *** DT John Jenkins or Brandon Williams.

Rd. 3 Pick # 88 *** RB Montee Ball. I'm also among other RB's. Assessing RB Le'Veon Bell, Michigan State. A certain member here might not like that choice. ;-)

PACKERS !


Bell might need to get a bit stronger to carry's Monte's Jock Strap :)

[Bossman641]

This description makes sense of how the Packers left the door open for Sherrod last year, PUP plus 3 weeks of practice off roster.

But has anyone read this elsewhere? Or does anyone know enough about this injury to confirm? Is it really just a matter of trust? Because I read that and immediately suspect we are in "fast healer" medical reportage territory.



from: http://packerstalk.com/2013/04/06/key-to-packers-offense-may-be-derek-sherrod/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Calling BS on this. The reports from the JSO and GBPG guys were that Sherrod was noticeably limping and laboring when he came off PUP last year. Certainly didn't sound like a guy who had it together physically but couldn't pass the mental barriers.

[Bretsky]

I'll give him one more year before his name changes from Justine to Fruitcake

Roger Staffold.............that would be a dam nice LT for somebody and good chance he could be had for a 2nd rounder at this point........of course......the team would have to pay him

[red]

I'll give him one more year before his name changes from Justine to Fruitcake

Roger Staffold.............that would be a dam nice LT for somebody and good chance he could be had for a 2nd rounder at this point........of course......the team would have to pay him

to me, spending a 2nd round pick on a proven LT is a no brainer. i would have to take your word though that he is a proven LT

you're gonna have to pay a decent LT no matter what, even if we draft one. hell even if we keep the one we have, eventually, we'll have to pay him like a starting LT

LT is something that TT has not been able to draft yet, thats why i'm all about a FA or a trade for one. its just too important, and you can't keep throwing first rounders trying to find one

[Pugger]

It took Mike Flanagan over 2 years to return from a similar injury so I think it is rather premature to write him off just yet. This upcoming draft will tell us a lot if TT uses another high pick on a tackle. If he does then Sherrod's injury is worse than they are letting on.

[red]

It took Mike Flanagan over 2 years to return from a similar injury so I think it is rather premature to write him off just yet. This upcoming draft will tell us a lot if TT uses another high pick on a tackle. If he does then Sherrod's injury is worse than they are letting on.

yup, if he goes LT, OLB, or S, that should tell us all we need to know about just how much confidence the team has in sherrod, perry and Mcmillian

also, if we go ILB or TE, i think it tells us that this is probably hawk or finley's last year

[Pugger]

I don't think they have a problem with Perry but I do hope we draft a safety. I'm not all that crazy about any of the guys we have back there right now. I doubt we'll draft a TE high unless one of the top ones falls but ILB wouldn't be a bad idea. Hawk is steady eddy but not much else.

[woodbuck27]

Bell might need to get a bit stronger to carry's Monte's Jock Strap :)

I'll take that as a NAY !! :grin:

[Joemailman]

Calling BS on this. The reports from the JSO and GBPG guys were that Sherrod was noticeably limping and laboring when he came off PUP last year. Certainly didn't sound like a guy who had it together physically but couldn't pass the mental barriers.

It's hard to say. MM was king of vague last November about what was holding Sherrod back.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packnot17-vc7m3pg-179764651.html


Sherrod, a first-round draft choice in 2011, moved gingerly through drills during the individual portion of practice. There were signs of a slight limp when he tried to run.

It has been 10 months since Sherrod underwent emergency surgery in Kansas City to repair the broken tibia and fibula in his right leg. The Packers described it as a "clean" break, but he doesn't appear even close to being able to participate in 11-on-11 drills.

"Well, I don't want to give up on Derek," coach Mike McCarthy said Friday. "We're taking baby steps. I think it's obvious if you've had a chance to watch him work."

"I will say this," McCarthy said. "Just watching him a couple weeks ago and watching him go through the individual (Friday), I think he's made some strides. He has that last hurdle he has to get over. This is the kind of drill work that he needs, to be in pads and go through the individual stuff."

[woodbuck27]

I'll give him one more year before his name changes from Justine to Fruitcake

Roger Staffold.............that would be a dam nice LT for somebody and good chance he could be had for a 2nd rounder at this point........of course......the team would have to pay him

and .... what are you talking about?

There's no $$$money$$$ for honey...honey.

[Smeefers]

The year we drafted DS is the year I joined pack rats. Surprisingly, I also called it that we'd draft him. This is the one and only time that's ever happened. So, seeing as I have so much personally invested in the lug, I can't throw him out just yet. He gets another year as far as I'm concerned, but I am worried. He played very poorly early. He was always considered a prospect pick. When we got him, we still had cliffy. He was going to take a little bit to learn and then when Cliff rolled out, he'd take over. Unfortunately he hasn't spent any of this time perfecting his craft. If he's as good as he was 2 years ago, it might not be worth keeping ahold of him.

[pbmax]

That practice report Joe has was how I remembered it. I could not understand what the Packers were hoping to gain from letting him practice if he was still limping as it seemed likely he was not going to be game ready much less active. I was hoping he would, but it didn't seem likely after he hit the field.

Seeing it as part of his rehab makes sense. Thompson never announces moves until he has to so perhaps this was just normal business. Perhaps there is a benefit to not having him on IR as far as practice options go.

But the notion he was completely, physically healthy is news to me.

As for the points about beating out a Guard as a rookie, I think this is barking up the wrong tree. Sherrod is, was and always will be a Left Tackle. Putting him at guard is like racing your Lambo at a dirt track. Performing poorly there could be seen as a knock on him, but then I want you to envision Chad Clifton and Ken Ruettgers at Guard. It wouldn't be pretty.

Newhouse is the poor fit here. His body type says Guard. His strength, feet and playing style say Tackle. His results say backup.

Sherrod spent camp competing at a position with a better option for that spot (Lang) and moved exclusively to Tackle late. By then, in his Year 2, Newhouse was ahead. The musical chairs McCarthy and Campen play here works to Sherrod's disadvantage. While versatility is important on the line, Sherrod would be the last to move in case of injury as a prototype Left Tackle. The rotation also serves players like Newhouse, Bulaga, Colledge and Lang better because they naturally fit two positions.

But as you can see from that list, versatility doesn't make the guy the best option to start. Does anyone want Colledge and Newhouse to start for the Packers in 2013 because they are versatile? No. This is thinking that you love your crazy, gritty and short utility infielders so much that you will start ALL utility infielders on the dirt. Great. You will lead the League in intangibles and versatility while losing all the other battles like on-base, power, defense and run production.

Clifton was there and not even a first round pick was going to unseat him unless he was injured. Newhouse had no other position (maybe RT?) to practice at. Sherrod almost had to play Guard to get snaps in camp. That I understand. To judge him a failure because of that performance is problematic.

The only issue is health. If he is not healthy, nothing else matters. If he can hit the field, then all other questions get answered.

[RashanGary]

Newhouse wins. Its going to take sherrod a full offseason and part of the reg season to get caught up physically and mentally. Newhouse will be stronger, more agile and have the biggest mental edge of his career heading into his contract season. and hes about the same age, with years of offseason / in season training over ds. If ds wins that battle, im both shocked and pleased. Doubt it tho. Highly doubt it.

[RashanGary]

Newhouse just proves people wrong. too this, too that. All he does is get better and he does it under fire.

[woodbuck27]

Newhouse just proves people wrong. too this, too that. All he does is get better and he does it under fire.

Hey... where have you been?

We need your input here JH. It's nice to see you post Packer fan.

GO PACK GO !

[pittstang5]

Newhouse wins. Its going to take sherrod a full offseason and part of the reg season to get caught up physically and mentally. Newhouse will be stronger, more agile and have the biggest mental edge of his career heading into his contract season. and hes about the same age, with years of offseason / in season training over ds. If ds wins that battle, im both shocked and pleased. Doubt it tho. Highly doubt it.

I agree. I can't see DS coming in and just taking over the LT spot. Alot of fans are wishing that happens and even going as far as to believing that will happen - but you know the old saying, you can wish in one hand and crap in the other...

Unless TT picks up a LT in FA or by some miracle, drafts one of the top three LTs in the draft (not going to happen, but humor me), Newhouse is going to start and Sherrod will be a back up at LT and maybe even RT. Like JH said, DS is behind mentally and physically - the cards are not in his favor.

I'll throw another name into this LT competition. Datko. He could be competition for the back-up LT spot too. He didn't fair that well in pre-season, but maybe a year of off-season training - he might show something too.

[Guiness]

yup, if he goes LT, OLB, or S, that should tell us all we need to know about just how much confidence the team has in sherrod, perry and Mcmillian

also, if we go ILB or TE, i think it tells us that this is probably hawk or finley's last year

I disagree.

Outside of RB, there isn't a glaring need on this team. If the Pack drafts a tackle, it tells me one thing: the highest rated player on the board when their pick came up was a tackle. No more, no less.

[red]

I disagree.

Outside of RB, there isn't a glaring need on this team. If the Pack drafts a tackle, it tells me one thing: the highest rated player on the board when their pick came up was a tackle. No more, no less.

our last 4 first round picks have brought 2 OT's and 2 OLB. we needed 2 OT's and 2 OLB's

if we spend yet another first rounder on either one of those positions, i would be worried we're entering matt millen land

first rounders HAVE to be starters, especially when all we use to build is the draft. we can't afford to be taking guys in the first just to be contributers, and if we draft a third guy in the first to be a OLB or OT thats exactly what we'd be doing

[Joemailman]

Newhouse just proves people wrong. too this, too that. All he does is get better and he does it under fire.

I give Newhouse credit for being a battler and for being able to stay healthy. But with Sherrod on the sidelines, he's pretty much won the job so far by default. The last 2 years, he's been the best we have, but he's not really very good as a LT. Sherrod and Datko both have more potential as a LT than Newhouse if they can get, and stay healthy.

[swede]

The year we drafted DS is the year I joined pack rats. Surprisingly, I also called it that we'd draft him. This is the one and only time that's ever happened. So, seeing as I have so much personally invested in the lug, I can't throw him out just yet. He gets another year as far as I'm concerned, but I am worried. He played very poorly early. He was always considered a prospect pick. When we got him, we still had cliffy. He was going to take a little bit to learn and then when Cliff rolled out, he'd take over. Unfortunately he hasn't spent any of this time perfecting his craft. If he's as good as he was 2 years ago, it might not be worth keeping ahold of him.

We didn't get a chance in our forum draft because I had Pittsburgh take him just a few picks in front of us. :satan:

[pbmax]

I agree Newhouse has been best of poor options. Healthy, Sherrod would blow his doors off at Left Tackle. But we haven't been there yet.

[Patler]

I agree Newhouse has been best of poor options. Healthy, Sherrod would blow his doors off at Left Tackle. But we haven't been there yet.

I know many on here are of the opinion that Sherrod had begun to show promise before getting hurt. I thought he was only marginally less awful than what he had shown early in the season.

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

[woodbuck27]

I know many on here are of the opinion that Sherrod had begun to show promise before getting hurt. I thought he was only marginally less awful than what he had shown early in the season.

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

How about this Patler? Why place it on the player? Ted Thompson has to do alot more. How long does Aaron Rodgers need to wait for a LT?

If Ted Thompson cannot solve the problems; we all should be aware of on our OL. Add in the degree of incompetence of Marshall Newhouse; the risks waiting for Derek Sherrod.

We're all aware of the way that Aaron Rodgers is getting punished. What is he wearing? A sack me please sign!? He gets over the top sacked too often. Are we going to blame that on Aaron Rodgers?

Why is that problem of our QB and sacks existing?

Ted Thompson has demonstrated poor vision drafting for the Green Bay Packers Offensive Line. Isn't Ted Thompson guilty of neglect? Guilty of continuing to ignore what should be his primary concern. Protecting his valued QB.

Does Ted Thompson have any options open to him RE: a superior LT? He continues to ignore the options.

Look at this one issue and ask yourself. What is Aaron Rodgers thinking?

Maybe that it would be simply smart and in his personal best interest, concerning his health. To simply wait on that huge contract; price himself out of Green Bay. Land with a team that has a GM that can protect him with a robust OL.

What's a life after football of hurting every day? Of suffering all the symptoms of multiple concussions.

What price should Aaron Rodgers place on that?

PACKERS !

[red]

I know many on here are of the opinion that Sherrod had begun to show promise before getting hurt. I thought he was only marginally less awful than what he had shown early in the season.

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

great points. agreed

thats why we really needed to seem him at least practice last year to see what we have. if he can't be better then newhouse, then its time to call a bust a bust, and we need to go looking for an upgrade at LT somewhere else

newhouse is a decent backup who can step in for a time if needed, but he's not a starting LT

[woodbuck27]

This is the ideal thread to drop this on:

Thompson: Analysts Are Idiots

** Idiots

http://www.totalpackers.com/2011/04/25/thompson-analysts-are-idiots/

Comment woodbuck27:

** Idiots ...I've no reason to believe that Ted Thompson used such characterization.

At least, I hope not.

Yet... it's a really Ted? Is that so Ted?

Just like most people. People generally are right and wrong.

If those fellas were wrong ? Again, TT didn't classify them as idiots.

Were these fellas right? From BR:

RE: Ted Thompson's Round 1 Pick #32 in that 2011 draft ....Derek Sherrod, OL, Mississippi State.

" It's not a reach or a flashy pick, but instead it's a safer one.

Sherrod is great in all areas of an offensive lineman's game but doesn't have one strength in particular.
The Packers needed some offensive line help and it gives the Packers some flexibility. Sherrod could be put at left or right tackle and possibly even left guard.He gives the Packers a number of options on the offensive line and will help an area that needed some aid last season. "

Grade: A-

PACKERS !

[RashanGary]

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

And just how high his that hurdle? We have a lot of context to sort through.


The hurdle has been growing since Newhouse entered the league. MM talks a lot about 2nd and 3rd year players being the guys he counts on as the growth of the team. There several reasons I look at Newhouse like one of those 3rd year players MM believes provide the most growth.

1. He's 24. In two weeks, Sherrod will be the same age. Newhouse came in very young, at a position that requires man strength. He's fully healthy and able to stack another offseason of training under his belt.

2. The school he came from is not Iowa or Alabama. I've heard scouts talk about trusting OL from some schools more than others because they do it the same way. Guys are ready. Newhouse came in raw. Three years at Iowa has to be worth half a season of NFL training, scouts sure seem to put stock in it.

3. He was a guard for us as a rookie. He didn't have to play, but he worked out and practiced as a guard. It was training, legit NFL training, but not at the position he's playing now. In year 2, he was a swing G/T. He played LG, RT and LT. It wasn't until he was tossed in year 2 that he really began focusing on LT. Again, that's a developmental disadvantage as far as playing well right away.

4. Clearly, at his height, he's a worker or he wouldn't even be playing LT in the NFL. But this is his contract year. Smart money is on that guy being in peak physical shape.

5. He's continually gotten better. Last year, the Packers chose to slide protection to the right side to cover for Lang and Barclay. Newhouse hasn't been great, or even good at times, but I don't have any images burned in my memory bank of him whiffing. McGinn's reivews got better last year. He was thrashed hard as a run blocker, but over time he was praised at times as a pass protector and even the run blocking wasn't as harsh.



All things considered. . . Where he came from, the obstacles he's had to overcome, the history of steady growth that's been continuing. . . . I think the better bet is on Newhouse being a better player than he was last year.

And what was he last year? He was a guy who had trouble alone with Peppers, Osi, JPP. . . He was a guy who was a poor run defender. A lot of NFL LT's have trouble with those guys. The great ones, Clifton in his prime, stuffed the best and made them look bad. Newhouse didn't do that and might never, but his biggest problems were the leagues best pass rushers, and even then, he did pretty well against Allen at the end of last season.



So what hurdle is it that Sherrod has to clear? The way I read the signs, I think he's going to have to be better than an average starting left tackle this year. I think Newhouse was approaching average last year and will meet that mark this year.

And with that, Sherrod has one big disadvantage. He comes from a school that teams do not draft lineman from and that does not produce NFL lineman regularly. He hasn't had time to train at his position. If he's going to be all he can be, I don't think it's going to be now. 25th players in the draft are 50/50 busts to begin with. Even if he isn't, is he going to be all he can be right now? Is 80% of all he can be better than average?

My bet is no. . . . Next season though, if Sherrod shows some signs of being a good player this year, I think my money would be on DS. Newhouse just has too many limitations that I see. But who knows, maybe he proves me wrong too and becomes a darn good LT. In that case, Sherrod's chances go down even further.


My money is on Newhouse starting 2013

If I had to bet on a player being a really good LT in 2014, I'd probably bet on Sherrod just because I don't see Newhouse with that type of talent and Sherrod (talent alone) has a high enough ceiling to be that type of player.

[Pugger]

The year we drafted Sherrod we had no offseason program (OTAs or mini camps) so he missed out on all of that. MM and Campen foolishly tried him out at guard. This kid is no guard and it showed so some automatically think because he sucked at guard he'll suck at tackle. If his leg is fully healed he should be an upgrade at tackle over Newhouse. We'll get a good idea of his progress or lack thereof if TT drafts another tackle high in a couple of weeks.

[woodbuck27]

I disagree.

Outside of RB, there isn't a glaring need on this team. If the Pack drafts a tackle, it tells me one thing: the highest rated player on the board when their pick came up was a tackle. No more, no less.

Looking at it today Guiness my analysis says at #26 BPA these prospects may? be there. It can change weekly. That just might take a jaywalking violation:

On Defense:

DT's ** Sylvester Williams, North Carolina and/or Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State

DE ** Datone Jones, DE, UCLA or Damontre Moore, Texas A&M

CB Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State

On Offense:

WR DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson

TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame

** I wouldn't bet that these prospects will be available for TT at #26.

GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

Newhouse has 29 career starts (and 32 games played) and I believe all but two are at Left Tackle (He may have played RT to fill in for Bulaga in his 2nd year for a time). Its hard to downgrade his experience and call this his magical 3rd year, though I grant you, he missed an offseason like Sherrod did.

By some measures he was the worst starting Left Tackle in the League. At least a part of that is physical size limitation.

If Sherrod is the 30th best Left Tackle in the League at the end of camp, he will start. From a size standpoint alone, he has to reach, lunge and commit less than the smaller Newhouse.

If and I mean if he is healthy, he will start. Newhouse did make strides last year, but it still not enough.

[3irty1]

Newhouse's limitations are not physical. He may be short but he plays with great length. He's got 34 inch arms. The reason he failed at guard is the same reason Sherrod did, he plays too long to uncoil out of a stance as required by a guard. He's not undersized either, listed at 319 and his workout numbers are nothing short of fantastic. I feel like some on here view Newhouse as a guy who's getting by on effort and what little savy and technique he's got but I think its closer to the exact opposite. He's the left-tackle version of Allen Barbre.

My money is on Sherrod to take the job from Newhouse just by outplaying him. Both players play with a catchers mentality and thus are much more finesse players than their physical tools would suggest but Sherrod does not share Newhouse's other weaknesses. At the left tackle spot you can't have a guy that is going to get beat inside as often as Newhouse. He's not as quick off the snap as Sherrod and thus starts to cheat in a direction and plays with shitty balance. Sherrod isn't going to have that problem and I don't know if he'll anchor any better but he'll probably show more in terms of hand-to-hand combat in pass protection as well. If he does what he did in the SEC he's going to be an upgrade in the running game as well. Sherrod is huge and plays even bigger. He seems like a good fit for the system in that he's not much of a mauler but he's a giant moving wall that can open up holes with speed and size alone.

If you can't tell I'm looking forward to seeing Sherrod back on the field. Its way too soon to write him off.

[Smeefers]

I think Newhouse starts the season, but where it goes from there is all up to Sherrod. I don't think Sherrod is going to come in playing at 100% and that's the reason why.

[Zool]

our last 4 first round picks have brought 2 OT's and 2 OLB. we needed 2 OT's and 2 OLB's

if we spend yet another first rounder on either one of those positions, i would be worried we're entering matt millen land

first rounders HAVE to be starters, especially when all we use to build is the draft. we can't afford to be taking guys in the first just to be contributers, and if we draft a third guy in the first to be a OLB or OT thats exactly what we'd be doing

Someone should do some research and see what percentage of 1st rounders are starting and how long they do so. It seems like there are tons of busts from each draft but I don't have enough ambition right now to look it up.

[sharpe1027]

Someone should do some research and see what percentage of 1st rounders are starting and how long they do so. It seems like there are tons of busts from each draft but I don't have enough ambition right now to look it up.

Here is one analysis based upon bust vs. non-busts:

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology408_1.php


A player has to be a bust if he has had a relatively short career unless it was cut off by injuries. In the case of injuries, we simply can't blame teams unless the player had durability issues in college - teams can't predict which players will get injuries in the future and which won't because it is a part of the game.


Fans can't comprehend that there is at least a 33-percent chance of their 2010 first-round pick busting, but it's true (33% - giving the benefit of the doubt that the scouting in 2010 is better than in recent years).



Probowl Analysis:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-22/nfl-draft-2012-first-round-disappointments


Of the 319 first-round picks taken in the last 10 years (the Patriots forfeited their 2008 selection as a penalty for "Spygate"):

— 98 made at least one Pro Bowl (31 percent)

— 55 made multiple Pro Bowls (17 percent)

In other words, less than a third of "can't-miss" prospects selected in the first rounds of the last 10 NFL drafts have gone to even one Pro Bowl.

[woodbuck27]

Someone should do some research and see what percentage of 1st rounders are starting and how long they do so. It seems like there are tons of busts from each draft but I don't have enough ambition right now to look it up.

I wonder if a site like Pro Football Focus has done such a study.

Yes. Doing such a study of OL picks by team; extending that to the DL, DB and WR picks in say an eight year period. Would be similiar to doing a Thesis. Much work. My motion:

Assign that to Patler. :?

[sharpe1027]

An interesting point is that the walterfootball article has Hawk listed as a bust.

[woodbuck27]

Here is one analysis based upon bust vs. non-busts:

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology408_1.php








Probowl Analysis:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-22/nfl-draft-2012-first-round-disappointments

Good find...Thanks.

[woodbuck27]

An interesting point is that the walterfootball article has Hawk listed as a bust.

What a shocker. :rs:

[3irty1]

Bust rates by position from most likely to least likely is roughly:

QB (~55% bust rate)
Passrushers (~47% bust rate)
WR (~47% bust rate)
DT (~43% bust rate)
RB (~42% bust rate)
CB (~38% bust rate)
LB (~30% bust rate)
TE (~25% bust rate)
OT (~21% bust rate)
S (~8% bust rate)
OG/C (~0% bust rate)

[Freak Out]

interesting mocks on the Walter site.

[pbmax]

Newhouse's limitations are not physical. He may be short but he plays with great length. He's got 34 inch arms. The reason he failed at guard is the same reason Sherrod did, he plays too long to uncoil out of a stance as required by a guard. He's not undersized either, listed at 319 and his workout numbers are nothing short of fantastic. I feel like some on here view Newhouse as a guy who's getting by on effort and what little savy and technique he's got but I think its closer to the exact opposite. He's the left-tackle version of Allen Barbre.

If this read is true, then JH might have a good technique argument for his possible improvement.

But if he truly has 34 inch arms, then I wonder what his chest/wingspan is compared to Sherrod. Because when I watch them pass block (not an entirely fair comparison because DS's game action came at RT where the defender isn't likely to be as quick) I see Sherrod comfortably get to his pass set and wait to catch that rusher, even one handed, and then lock on for good. You might prefer more of a punch, but even on the defensive, which I took to be a default technique when he was not sure what to expect out of his guy, he got locked on. Without film and repeated viewings, it has all the hallmarks of physical dominance, at least in pass blocking.

Newhouse gets to his guy, using his quick feet to recover if his set isn't right, but never seems stay in control. He doesn't seem to recover and then regain control. He is reduced to pushing his guy only. He seems either a half second late or not strong enough to stop an initial push he doesn't expect. Tauscher used to get into that position against speed but then he hung on like he was coated in epoxy. And his guy could never get clean or away. He might flush a QB at worst, but because Tausch had him, the QB could choose an escape route and get a clean break. Newhouse ruins the comparison by giving up early. This got better last year but he still failed to follow his guy through. That motor turns off too quickly.

To me, Newhouse plays in a narrower window. A defender has more space to effectively get past him regardless of cause.

Sherrod still has to prove he can run with the pass rushers on D's right side. His first couple of snaps against Washington saw him get worked but he very much settled down despite the focus clearly being on him. He needs to not simply wait but be ready to punch when he has an opening. He also had problems with a couple of assignments in the preseason games. But those things I expect to see any player improve upon with more playing time.

[woodbuck27]

Bust rates by position from most likely to least likely is roughly:

QB (~55% bust rate)
Passrushers (~47% bust rate)
WR (~47% bust rate)
DT (~43% bust rate)
RB (~42% bust rate)
CB (~38% bust rate)
LB (~30% bust rate)
TE (~25% bust rate)
OT (~21% bust rate)
S (~8% bust rate)
OG/C (~0% bust rate)

OK then that should inform us:

Let's turn.... LB's; TE's; OT's; OG/C's; S's and CB's

Into: QB's; WR's; RB's; DT's and DE/OLB Pass Rushers.

All we need is a really good nutrionist, cooking staff and awesome trainers.

[woodbuck27]

interesting mocks on the Walter site.

Your intriguing us. What are you seeing that's very good... Packers?

We need something very positive or don't report it.

[3irty1]

If this read is true, then JH might have a good technique argument for his possible improvement.

But if he truly has 34 inch arms, then I wonder what his chest/wingspan is compared to Sherrod. Because when I watch them pass block (not an entirely fair comparison because DS's game action came at RT where the defender isn't likely to be as quick) I see Sherrod comfortably get to his pass set and wait to catch that rusher, even one handed, and then lock on for good. You might prefer more of a punch, but even on the defensive, which I took to be a default technique when he was not sure what to expect out of his guy, he got locked on. Without film and repeated viewings, it has all the hallmarks of physical dominance, at least in pass blocking.

Newhouse gets to his guy, using his quick feet to recover if his set isn't right, but never seems stay in control. He doesn't seem to recover and then regain control. He is reduced to pushing his guy only. He seems either a half second late or not strong enough to stop an initial push he doesn't expect. Tauscher used to get into that position against speed but then he hung on like he was coated in epoxy. And his guy could never get clean or away. He might flush a QB at worst, but because Tausch had him, the QB could choose an escape route and get a clean break. Newhouse ruins the comparison by giving up early. This got better last year but he still failed to follow his guy through. That motor turns off too quickly.

To me, Newhouse plays in a narrower window. A defender has more space to effectively get past him regardless of cause.

Sherrod still has to prove he can run with the pass rushers on D's right side. His first couple of snaps against Washington saw him get worked but he very much settled down despite the focus clearly being on him. He needs to not simply wait but be ready to punch when he has an opening. He also had problems with a couple of assignments in the preseason games. But those things I expect to see any player improve upon with more playing time.

I feel like he gets out of control because of poor balance from taking false steps. He often has to resort to lunging or giving ground which is what I think makes him look like he plays small. Some of it he could fix with better technique and experience but I feel like some of the problem is just his style. He sees himself as too much of a catcher in pass pro and doesn't dictate the actions of smaller and weaker players when the opportunity is there.

[RashanGary]

Deleted

[sharpe1027]

Newhouse ruins the comparison by giving up early. This got better last year but he still failed to follow his guy through. That motor turns off too quickly.

To me, Newhouse plays in a narrower window. A defender has more space to effectively get past him regardless of cause.


This is the best explanation I have heard yet, and I agree. While Newhouse has cut down on the number of wiffs because he almost always slows down the defender, he struggles to maintain his blocks for any length of time.

[red]

This is the best explanation I have heard yet, and I agree. While Newhouse has cut down on the number of wiffs because he almost always slows down the defender, he struggles to maintain his blocks for any length of time.

i seem to remember a lot of this too

blocks his guy to the out wide, then lets him go, allowing the pass rushing to still get pressure

[Joemailman]

I went back and read some scouting reports on Newhouse from when he was a draft prospect, and they all mention his weakness of not finishing blocks. I get the sense that's just the way he is, and significant improvement is unlikely. I also remember reading that one of his arms is shorter than the other. If that's true, I wonder if that is an impediment to him maintaining physical contact with the defender.

[Guiness]

i seem to remember a lot of this too

blocks his guy to the out wide, then lets him go, allowing the pass rushing to still get pressure

So he's more of an inconveniencer than a blocker?

[Pugger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taaxYtUsefo

[Carolina_Packer]

Other famous busts include Dolly Parton

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/75966624/Dolly+Parton+PNG.png

and Venus De Milo

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTY7yqFEoNgGY4FwZCicClvYEokPfmdR 0MqBtkMXOzxmev7H1k7

:rs:

[wist43]

interesting mocks on the Walter site.

One of them has us taking Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State.

I like Carradine as a player - but where would we play him??

If the guys who do mocks on these pro football sites would do a little home work, they'd know better than to assign such a miscast pick. Perhaps Carradine is rated as the 26th player in their own rankings - but Green Bay could still never take the guy b/c he doesn't fit a position for us.

[3irty1]

One of them has us taking Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State.

I like Carradine as a player - but where would we play him??

If the guys who do mocks on these pro football sites would do a little home work, they'd know better than to assign such a miscast pick. Perhaps Carradine is rated as the 26th player in their own rankings - but Green Bay could still never take the guy b/c he doesn't fit a position for us.

Carradine is pretty fluid and lengthy, at 260ish he'd be a great looking OLB. His playing weight was about 265 but like Perry last year he's been bulking up to appeal to as many teams as possible.

I doubt we drop a 1st round pick to create a situation where 3 1st round picks are competing for 2 spots. It would make more sense to get someone with complementary skills to platoon or a more raw player that can develop, plays special teams, and spell Matthews and Perry.

[RashanGary]

PB

Honestly, developmental-wise, I don't think Sherrod is much further along than a 4-year Wisconsin or Iowa player would be coming in. He had a few months of NFL training, other than that all of his experience was at Mississippi State. And he hasn't played real football in a long time. It will be pushing 2 years by the time he takes his first pre-season snap.

I kinda like what Smeefers said, Newhouse starts the season with Sherrod deciding after that. Just the way things have gone for DS, honestly, as much as I've been saying the signs point to Newhouse, I think I'll be more forgiving than a lot of people here during the preseason with Sherrod. If that guy gets a full TC and 4 preseason games under his belt (where he plays alot, left and right) I like how it lines up for him. He has to get better every game. If he does that, and doesn't bomb out, I'm as much of a trend reader as anyone. I'll be honking his horn.

He needs to get his body thumped, really worked into football shape, then a few recovery weeks in the first quarter of the season to build his strength back up. The guy needs a break. Something like that, really good circumstances, would be enough for him to step in at some point in the season as a big, strong, fresh 24 year old with some good, real NFL training under his belt. It's like a girlgasm, you just need to let her get some momentum and stay out of the way. Squeeze her hips a little, a quick eye check to see how she's doing, but don't fuck up her groove. Sherrod needs to get in a groove. Hopefully from there, it's just get out of the way.

Hopefully this is the year Sherrod gets off. . .


That's a horrible analogy, but I'm single now, and apparently a big hit with the ladies. "OMG, I had 5 orgasms" "OMG, we were fucking like porn stars" "OMG, you're good at that" Well, I can thank my wife for one thing, she had a hard time getting off, and the good husband I was, I learned how to love her (and hate her.) Gotta admit, I do feel like a rock star, but unfortunately, about the only credit I can take is that I don't get in a girls way when she's being herself and I don't stop doing what's working. Credit to pornstar girl and miss 5gasms tho. You poor things haven't been fucked right. Now you have :) Also had a 3-some thingy with 2 married girls. The one girls like, If Amy doesn't mind, I wanna dance naked while you fuck her. I'm like, "pffft. . . . Amy doesn't mind"

And with that, I bid adu. I have a date, with a girl I really like. Red-Lobster and Margarita night at Los Banditos. I'm so getting laid :) hahhahaha fucking hahahah.




P.S. I'm bi-polar and stopped taking my meds a month ago. Since then, I've slept with 5 random girls, got one OWI, and racked up some CC debt. But it's so fucking hard to stop. . . . Life is just so much happier unmedicated. Everyone should try unmedicated bi-polar. It's fucking awesome. Except I thought I had herpes the other day, but it was a false alarm. I called my brother, dude, no herpes, let's go out, spin that roulette wheel another time :) :) I have a feeling I'm going to die a painful, early death and burn in hell. I always feel purified when I pay for my sins. I'm a little afraid of the price I'm gonna pay for these ones tho. Fuck. . . Can't stop. Spring-time for bi-polar people is such a scary place. . . . But if you like that sort of thing, and you have a pussy, message me :)

[QBME]

PB

Honestly, developmental-wise, I don't think Sherrod is much further along than a 4-year Wisconsin or Iowa player would be coming in. He had a few months of NFL training, other than that all of his experience was at Mississippi State. And he hasn't played real football in a long time. It will be pushing 2 years by the time he takes his first pre-season snap.

I kinda like what Smeefers said, Newhouse starts the season with Sherrod deciding after that. Just the way things have gone for DS, honestly, as much as I've been saying the signs point to Newhouse, I think I'll be more forgiving than a lot of people here during the preseason with Sherrod. If that guy gets a full TC and 4 preseason games under his belt (where he plays alot, left and right) I like how it lines up for him. He has to get better every game. If he does that, and doesn't bomb out, I'm as much of a trend reader as anyone. I'll be honking his horn.

He needs to get his body thumped, really worked into football shape, then a few recovery weeks in the first quarter of the season to build his strength back up. The guy needs a break. Something like that, really good circumstances, would be enough for him to step in at some point in the season as a big, strong, fresh 24 year old with some good, real NFL training under his belt. It's like a girlgasm, you just need to let her get some momentum and stay out of the way. Squeeze her hips a little, a quick eye check to see how she's doing, but don't fuck up her groove. Sherrod needs to get in a groove. Hopefully from there, it's just get out of the way.

Hopefully this is the year Sherrod gets off. . .


That's a horrible analogy, but I'm single now, and apparently a big hit with the ladies. "OMG, I had 5 orgasms" "OMG, we were fucking like porn stars" "OMG, you're good at that" Well, I can thank my wife for one thing, she had a hard time getting off, and the good husband I was, I learned how to love her (and hate her.) Gotta admit, I do feel like a rock star, but unfortunately, about the only credit I can take is that I don't get in a girls way when she's being herself and I don't stop doing what's working. Credit to pornstar girl and miss 5gasms tho. You poor things haven't been fucked right. Now you have :) Also had a 3-some thingy with 2 married girls. The one girls like, If Amy doesn't mind, I wanna dance naked while you fuck her. I'm like, "pffft. . . . Amy doesn't mind"

And with that, I bid adu. I have a date, with a girl I really like. Red-Lobster and Margarita night at Los Banditos. I'm so getting laid :) hahhahaha fucking hahahah.




P.S. I'm bi-polar and stopped taking my meds a month ago. Since then, I've slept with 5 random girls, got one OWI, and racked up some CC debt. But it's so fucking hard to stop. . . . Life is just so much happier unmedicated. Everyone should try unmedicated bi-polar. It's fucking awesome. Except I thought I had herpes the other day, but it was a false alarm. I called my brother, dude, no herpes, let's go out, spin that roulette wheel another time :) :) I have a feeling I'm going to die a painful, early death and burn in hell. I always feel purified when I pay for my sins. I'm a little afraid of the price I'm gonna pay for these ones tho. Fuck. . . Can't stop. Spring-time for bi-polar people is such a scary place. . . . But if you like that sort of thing, and you have a pussy, message me :)

Now that, Ladies (beware) and Gentlemen, is one damn fine post.

Go get 'em brother!!

[Fritz]

And I thought he was such a nice boy.

But I know that part about being divorced and single again after many years. It was good....for awhile.

[pbmax]

You just never see a post like JH's on Footballs Future :D

My hopes for Sherrod and somewhat dim view of Newhouse basically revolve around the prospect of the O line being better this year rather than last. I hope Sherrod does get healthy and comes around and I hope the Packers have good enough (and healthy enough) tackle talent to keep Newhouse on the bench.

And the reason I am invested in this hope is because I don't see them grabbing another starting caliber tackle in this draft.

If starting O line help does arrive in the draft it will probably be at center which is fine. But then Sherrod is the next, most likely player to contribute to better overall play.

[Fritz]

Agreed agreed agreed. If they draft a tackle with the first, second, or even third round picks then it means they don't think that between Sherrod/Bulaga/Newhouse they have a legitimate starting left tackle. And since two of those guys were first round picks, that's bad.

I would like to see them draft a center pretty early on - somewhere between rounds two and four, say.

But I also thought Chad Jackson was a way better draft pick than that Greg Jennings guy.

[woodbuck27]

One of them has us taking Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State.

I like Carradine as a player - but where would we play him??

If the guys who do mocks on these pro football sites would do a little home work, they'd know better than to assign such a miscast pick. Perhaps Carradine is rated as the 26th player in their own rankings - but Green Bay could still never take the guy b/c he doesn't fit a position for us.

Alot of these Pro Analysts are IMO not with it. I can see a Mock done before TT gave his blessings to Jermichel Finley, hanging TE Tyler Eifert with us; but certainly not after that off season move.

TT is now set and commited at TE 'in his own mind'.

I'll throw a fit if TT goes to Tyler Eifert at #26. I'll never trust Ted Thompson's mind again. I'll declare that TT 'doesn't have the brains to blow powder to hell'.

Ted Thompson has to have a killer draft. If he goes Tyler Eifert at #26 he blows this draft.

That won't happen.


PACKERS !

[Fritz]

Yeah, Woody, except when I saw the draft where he took some no-name bozo named Nick Collins in the second round, I thought he'd blown that draft, too.

I agree with you - a tight end at 26 would seem a waste to me, a complete waste. But Ted's ways are mysterious and they seem to work.

[woodbuck27]

PB

Honestly, developmental-wise, I don't think Sherrod is much further along than a 4-year Wisconsin or Iowa player would be coming in. He had a few months of NFL training, other than that all of his experience was at Mississippi State. And he hasn't played real football in a long time. It will be pushing 2 years by the time he takes his first pre-season snap.

I kinda like what Smeefers said, Newhouse starts the season with Sherrod deciding after that. Just the way things have gone for DS, honestly, as much as I've been saying the signs point to Newhouse, I think I'll be more forgiving than a lot of people here during the preseason with Sherrod. If that guy gets a full TC and 4 preseason games under his belt (where he plays alot, left and right) I like how it lines up for him. He has to get better every game. If he does that, and doesn't bomb out, I'm as much of a trend reader as anyone. I'll be honking his horn.

He needs to get his body thumped, really worked into football shape, then a few recovery weeks in the first quarter of the season to build his strength back up. The guy needs a break. Something like that, really good circumstances, would be enough for him to step in at some point in the season as a big, strong, fresh 24 year old with some good, real NFL training under his belt. It's like a girlgasm, you just need to let her get some momentum and stay out of the way. Squeeze her hips a little, a quick eye check to see how she's doing, but don't fuck up her groove. Sherrod needs to get in a groove. Hopefully from there, it's just get out of the way.

Hopefully this is the year Sherrod gets off. . .


That's a horrible analogy, but I'm single now, and apparently a big hit with the ladies. "OMG, I had 5 orgasms" "OMG, we were fucking like porn stars" "OMG, you're good at that" Well, I can thank my wife for one thing, she had a hard time getting off, and the good husband I was, I learned how to love her (and hate her.) Gotta admit, I do feel like a rock star, but unfortunately, about the only credit I can take is that I don't get in a girls way when she's being herself and I don't stop doing what's working. Credit to pornstar girl and miss 5gasms tho. You poor things haven't been fucked right. Now you have :) Also had a 3-some thingy with 2 married girls. The one girls like, If Amy doesn't mind, I wanna dance naked while you fuck her. I'm like, "pffft. . . . Amy doesn't mind"

And with that, I bid adu. I have a date, with a girl I really like. Red-Lobster and Margarita night at Los Banditos. I'm so getting laid :) hahhahaha fucking hahahah.




P.S. I'm bi-polar and stopped taking my meds a month ago. Since then, I've slept with 5 random girls, got one OWI, and racked up some CC debt. But it's so fucking hard to stop. . . . Life is just so much happier unmedicated. Everyone should try unmedicated bi-polar. It's fucking awesome. Except I thought I had herpes the other day, but it was a false alarm. I called my brother, dude, no herpes, let's go out, spin that roulette wheel another time :) :) I have a feeling I'm going to die a painful, early death and burn in hell. I always feel purified when I pay for my sins. I'm a little afraid of the price I'm gonna pay for these ones tho. Fuck. . . Can't stop. Spring-time for bi-polar people is such a scary place. . . . But if you like that sort of thing, and you have a pussy, message me :)

Holy shit! Shit ! Shit !! Holy Fricken shit !!!!

That's the post of all time on Packerrats.

***** Five ... count em FIVE STARS for Candor *****

Way to cover your ass with Mad too JH:

I have a date, with a girl I really like. Red-Lobster and Margarita night at Los Banditos. I'm so getting laid hahhahaha fucking hahahah. JH

Mad owns Looss Baaanndiitosss.

Rossiitaaa ... Daance furrr meee ... Oookaae ?

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/feedough/feedough1110/feedough111000091/10933788-back-of-a-sexy-latino-dancer-posing-on-dark-background.jpg

Another margarita Sisstaa ? Issaaa guuud.

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/feedough/feedough1110/feedough111000092/10933799-side-view-of-a-sexy-young-latino-dancer.jpg

Grrreaaat !! Thaasaa wookiinnn juuussa fine.

JH...Here's an appetizer for you just before that next big, really big date:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Bb_w1oNLtNs&NR=1

[denverYooper]

This one's a classic.

[Bossman641]

Every 3-4 months you can expect JH to come up with a post completely out of left field. Bravo..:worship: bravo

[wist43]

Carradine is pretty fluid and lengthy, at 260ish he'd be a great looking OLB. His playing weight was about 265 but like Perry last year he's been bulking up to appeal to as many teams as possible.

I doubt we drop a 1st round pick to create a situation where 3 1st round picks are competing for 2 spots. It would make more sense to get someone with complementary skills to platoon or a more raw player that can develop, plays special teams, and spell Matthews and Perry.

Our front seven seems like a haphazard collection of decent players that really don't fit together in Capers's "whatever-amoeba-nickel" defense.

We'd probably be better off switching back to a 4-3 with the personnel we have. At least if we went back to a 4-3, Capers would be forced to put more than 1 DL on the field.

I'm hoping Capers gets fired mid-season... that would be cause for optimism :tup:

[wootah]

Post of the year.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq2u0cmb2s1qii6tmo1_500.gif

[KYPack]

Well JH (AKA Nick Collins),

You really pulled out all the stops on that post.

Before you hurl yourself into oblivion, a few words of advice....

1. You can't cheat an honest man.

2. Never play cards with a man named Doc.

3. Never go to bed with a woman that has more problems than you do.

4. Never, ever smarten up a chump.

Stay with those basics and you should be all right.

[denverYooper]

http://cdn.realitystudio.org/images/people/bukowski/charles-bukowski-at-computer.jpg

[3irty1]

Our front seven seems like a haphazard collection of decent players that really don't fit together in Capers's "whatever-amoeba-nickel" defense.

We'd probably be better off switching back to a 4-3 with the personnel we have. At least if we went back to a 4-3, Capers would be forced to put more than 1 DL on the field.

I'm hoping Capers gets fired mid-season... that would be cause for optimism :tup:

I don't understand you. Every team in the league runs more nickle than anything else and the 2-4 is just the most common nickle package for 3-4 teams. The 49ers ran a 2-4 most of the time against us. The only real difference between a 2-4 and a 4-2 is if the outside passrushers have a hand on the ground or not. When you think about it that way its obvious what Capers would do with a guy like Nick Perry or Tank Carradine. I guess this explains why you have such a hardon for the Seahawks, Giants, and Falcons despite all of them being a clear tier below the Packers, they are all 4-3 teams.

[Fritz]

I think Wist is old school and wants a 4-3 with hulking defensive linemen everywhere.

But I can't blame him in that regard. Having grown up in the 70's, I still get a hard on when MM runs the ball two or three times in a row. Well, when it works I get a hard on, anyway. Yet it's been clearly demonstrated that MM's play calling generally works. This team can score.

It's hard to let go of the old ways of thinking.

My problem is not with Wist's desire for a tougher, meaner front seven; it's with his insistence that the Packers deliberately choose to play soft, and that the Packers were lucky to win a SB, and that they are doomed because they choose to keep their heads in the sand. That's the stuff I don't get. You can't tell me that somehow MM and TT are not aware of how physical their team is or isn't, or that they are aware but they don't care. I can't imagine them having a conversation that Wist imagines they'd have. It would go like this:

MM: Well, Ted, I love throwing the ball and being all fancy and cute. And I know Dom loves calling cute trick defenses. He loves himself and wants to show how fancy and smart he is.

Ted: Yes, Mike, I know. And I love being frugal and only drafting players. I don't like signing free agents even if it would make the team better. I also am thought of as a closet homosexual, and so I like prissy, sissy football players. That's why it's so great that you are my coach!

MM: And that's why it's so great that Dom is my DC!

TT: Let's go watch some Real Housewives, and after that we can check out some film on this underweight, dancing-bear left tackle who used to play tight end. We can get him in the third round, I think!

MM: Great! Oh, and Dom wants to know if you can draft a small, quick linebacker who doesn't really like to hit anyone. Dom's thinking of a new package: the 0-5. No defensive linemen at all, and five light, timid linebackers.

TT: Cool. We can get into the playoffs with that, I think. And that's all we really care about, anyway.

[pbmax]

Well JH (AKA Nick Collins),

You really pulled out all the stops on that post.

Before you hurl yourself into oblivion, a few words of advice....

My additions in bold:

1. You can't cheat an honest man.

2. Never play cards with a man named Doc or a man named after a city.

3. Never go to bed with a woman that has more problems than you do.

4. Never, ever smarten up a chump.

5. If there's a con going on and you don't know who the mark it, you are the mark.

Stay with those basics and you should be all right.

[3irty1]

I think Wist is old school and wants a 4-3 with hulking defensive linemen everywhere.

But I can't blame him in that regard. Having grown up in the 70's, I still get a hard on when MM runs the ball two or three times in a row. Well, when it works I get a hard on, anyway. Yet it's been clearly demonstrated that MM's play calling generally works. This team can score.

It's hard to let go of the old ways of thinking.

My problem is not with Wist's desire for a tougher, meaner front seven; it's with his insistence that the Packers deliberately choose to play soft, and that the Packers were lucky to win a SB, and that they are doomed because they choose to keep their heads in the sand. That's the stuff I don't get. You can't tell me that somehow MM and TT are not aware of how physical their team is or isn't, or that they are aware but they don't care. I can't imagine them having a conversation that Wist imagines they'd have. It would go like this:

MM: Well, Ted, I love throwing the ball and being all fancy and cute. And I know Dom loves calling cute trick defenses. He loves himself and wants to show how fancy and smart he is.

Ted: Yes, Mike, I know. And I love being frugal and only drafting players. I don't like signing free agents even if it would make the team better. I also am thought of as a closet homosexual, and so I like prissy, sissy football players. That's why it's so great that you are my coach!

MM: And that's why it's so great that Dom is my DC!

TT: Let's go watch some Real Housewives, and after that we can check out some film on this underweight, dancing-bear left tackle who used to play tight end. We can get him in the third round, I think!

MM: Great! Oh, and Dom wants to know if you can draft a small, quick linebacker who doesn't really like to hit anyone. Dom's thinking of a new package: the 0-5. No defensive linemen at all, and five light, timid linebackers.

TT: Cool. We can get into the playoffs with that, I think. And that's all we really care about, anyway.

:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:: bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

Apparently I must spread some rep before giving it to you again.

[Fritz]

My additions in bold:

1. You can't cheat an honest man.

2. Never play cards with a man named Doc or a man named after a city.

3. Never go to bed with a woman that has more problems than you do.

4. Never, ever smarten up a chump.

5. If there's a con going on and you don't know who the mark it, you are the mark.

Stay with those basics and you should be all right.

My problem was always with #3. I loved bad girls, and bad girls are inevitably bat-shit crazy.

[pbmax]

People of all stripes don't really care about scheme, drafting philosophy or scouting system. Fans want success. Capers was fine when it was a top 2 defense. Now that its fallen he is an idiot.

People also tend to forget how high a level the NFL is and what small errors can do to a team.

The best lesson anyone could take about the Packers Defense last year is assignment surety. Play fast and loose with your assignments (I am looking at you Raji and Walden), overcommit, lose leverage or give up an edge and Adrian Peterson gains 220 yards. Those errors can be mental or physical but they are not scheme or alignment.

Same players, same scheme in the playoffs get their act together and keep to the script. No more one gapping on your own and bursting into the backfield. No more headlong chases down the LOS giving up the backside cut. Gap control and patience. Peterson gets 100 yards and the game is on Ponder to win.

The Packer preach fast and aggressive defense. When you face Adrian Peterson with a good O line or the 49ers who are running a form of option at you, they simply turn your aggression into their advantage. Peterson's greatest strength is his patience and then his ability to see the hole crack open after the initial scrum and then kill you by bursting through.

I think KY and Nutz would agree that one trait of ANY option play is that they seek to isolate one player and have them make a choice and then send the ball to the area they just vacated. You follow Gore? CK keeps the ball. Falcons and Ravens run at CK to force a give? Twin double teams by the O line give Gore a six yard carry.

If the Packers changed nothing about their defense except to repeat last year's discipline of the Vikings playoff game against the 49ers, Vikes and Redskins? Then start warming up the victory parade floats.

[3irty1]

People of all stripes don't really care about scheme, drafting philosophy or scouting system. Fans want success. Capers was fine when it was a top 2 defense. Now that its fallen he is an idiot.

People also tend to forget how high a level the NFL is and what small errors can do to a team.

The best lesson anyone could take about the Packers Defense last year is assignment surety. Play fast and loose with your assignments (I am looking at you Raji and Walden), overcommit, lose leverage or give up an edge and Adrian Peterson gains 220 yards. Those errors can be mental or physical but they are not scheme or alignment.

Same players, same scheme in the playoffs get their act together and keep to the script. No more one gapping on your own and bursting into the backfield. No more headlong chases down the LOS giving up the backside cut. Gap control and patience. Peterson gets 100 yards and the game is on Ponder to win.

The Packer preach fast and aggressive defense. When you face Adrian Peterson with a good O line or the 49ers who are running a form of option at you, they simply turn your aggression into their advantage. Peterson's greatest strength is his patience and then his ability to see the hole crack open after the initial scrum and then kill you by bursting through.

I think KY and Nutz would agree that one trait of ANY option play is that they seek to isolate one player and have them make a choice and then send the ball to the area they just vacated. You follow Gore? CK keeps the ball. Falcons and Ravens run at CK to force a give? Twin double teams by the O line give Gore a six yard carry.

If the Packers changed nothing about their defense except to repeat last year's discipline of the Vikings playoff game against the 49ers, Vikes and Redskins? Then start warming up the victory parade floats.

This. People it wouldn't be called the read option if the point wasn't to make watch your defense and then take the option they can't defend. Now in the NFL there are options inside the option. The FB reads the OLB when choosing who to block. We were unprepared for that but we won't be next time.

[Fritz]

PBMax wrote...

"People of all stripes don't really care about scheme, drafting philosophy or scouting system. Fans want success. Capers was fine when it was a top 2 defense. Now that its fallen he is an idiot.

People also tend to forget how high a level the NFL is and what small errors can do to a team.

The best lesson anyone could take about the Packers Defense last year is assignment surety. Play fast and loose with your assignments (I am looking at you Raji and Walden), overcommit, lose leverage or give up an edge and Adrian Peterson gains 220 yards. Those errors can be mental or physical but they are not scheme or alignment.

Same players, same scheme in the playoffs get their act together and keep to the script. No more one gapping on your own and bursting into the backfield. No more headlong chases down the LOS giving up the backside cut. Gap control and patience. Peterson gets 100 yards and the game is on Ponder to win.

The Packer preach fast and aggressive defense. When you face Adrian Peterson with a good O line or the 49ers who are running a form of option at you, they simply turn your aggression into their advantage. Peterson's greatest strength is his patience and then his ability to see the hole crack open after the initial scrum and then kill you by bursting through.

I think KY and Nutz would agree that one trait of ANY option play is that they seek to isolate one player and have them make a choice and then send the ball to the area they just vacated. You follow Gore? CK keeps the ball. Falcons and Ravens run at CK to force a give? Twin double teams by the O line give Gore a six yard carry.

[U]If the Packers changed nothing about their defense except to repeat last year's discipline of the Vikings playoff game against the 49ers, Vikes and Redskins? Then start warming up the victory parade floats"



So...if it's all about discipline, then maybe there's room on the Packers' coaching staff for one more defensive assistant:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdML2CNSX9DNrKTYG0awRvehoQpnFX_ cK8i94_76DMB_crvQWrtg

[woodbuck27]

PB

Honestly, developmental-wise, I don't think Sherrod is much further along than a 4-year Wisconsin or Iowa player would be coming in. He had a few months of NFL training, other than that all of his experience was at Mississippi State. And he hasn't played real football in a long time. It will be pushing 2 years by the time he takes his first pre-season snap.

I kinda like what Smeefers said, Newhouse starts the season with Sherrod deciding after that. Just the way things have gone for DS, honestly, as much as I've been saying the signs point to Newhouse, I think I'll be more forgiving than a lot of people here during the preseason with Sherrod. If that guy gets a full TC and 4 preseason games under his belt (where he plays alot, left and right) I like how it lines up for him. He has to get better every game. If he does that, and doesn't bomb out, I'm as much of a trend reader as anyone. I'll be honking his horn.

He needs to get his body thumped, really worked into football shape, then a few recovery weeks in the first quarter of the season to build his strength back up. The guy needs a break. Something like that, really good circumstances, would be enough for him to step in at some point in the season as a big, strong, fresh 24 year old with some good, real NFL training under his belt. JH

Life brought me to a man named 'Chance' that's diagnosed/treated for 'Bi-Polar Disorder'. Chance and I became very close friends.That friendship featured some interesting and challenging issues/times. Today some mutual friends don't know what's become of him. He's been in his cave for near two years now. I received a call just this week from one of those mutual friends, 'Don'; my best friend and 'by the way' a Green Bay Packer fan. What's happened to Chance, puzzels Don and I and another friend 'Bill'.

Sadly, Chance won't come out of his cave.

When I read your post JH. I felt strongly about Chance. I miss alot of what Chance was. One of those attributes was his intelligence. In my view a persons intelligence is all about 'keeping it simple'. I don't care how much time it takes to get there. The prize of recognized intelligence goes to the victor or the person who perseveres.

The portion of your post that is deserving of 'the prize' is above. What your telling Packerrats JH, is that Derek Sherrod must be tested by fire.

I'm being tested right now and have been for about a week.

I'm in a terrible struggle with my 'seven (7) round mock draft'. Any help will be appreciated. I reserve the right to make all final decisions. :mrgreen:

I've got the back end of that draft fairly well covered but the picks in Rounds 1-3 are burning my ass. I've got the picks in rounds 2 and 3. I'm struggling with pick #26. Too many options send my mock......south. It goes from 'meat and veggies' solid eating to soup.

When I look at the San Francisco 49ers I'm impressed. The 49ers OL is outstanding. Compared to our OL their's ................. 'Universes' apart. Our OL needs an influx of talent. So what can I hope for with the forecast of a Derek Sherrod arrival? Should I simply go with hope? Should I get into 'magical thinking ' and Derek Sherrod?

Absolutely 'no way'.

Ted Thompson cannot invest picks in this draft as glamour picks. I love players like:

WR's DeAndre Hopkins, 6'1" 214 lbs, Clemson, Grade 87.8 and another Greg Jennings and Justin Hunter, 6'4" 196 lbs, Tennessee, **Grade 81.8 and rising like a Rocket.

** All grades I give here come from NFL.Com.

RB Eddie Lacy 5' 11" 231 lbs, Alabama Grade 82.0 a fella that if healthy will move the chains and be a basher. He was able to run his 40 on Thursday. His time (approx. 4.57 sec.) is very good for a man his size, coming off a hammy injury.

TE Tyler Eifert 6'6" 251 lbs, Notre Dame Grade 83.3. Positioned on the depth chart behind Jermichael Finley. Unless we become the NE Patriots on offense...that's pure waste. I'll hate this pick. Ted Thompson must not pick this man. A question of his commitment enhances my position. That's what we need. Another first round pick unsure of his direction.

Every one of Ted Thompsons picks need to be totally excited about becoming Green Bay Packers. At least 4-5 of 8 picks need to make the roster as or near upgrades. We cannot wait four seasons for that to (maybe?) happen.

Others I love and on the defensive side:

DE Datone Jones, 6'4" 283 lbs, UCLA, Grade 85.6. There's 'a drive for show' fella. If I ever saw one. If he was available at #26 ? Would that 'California Star' adapt to playing in small town Green Bay?

CB Taylor Jamer, 5' 11" 192 lbs. A 4.37 sec. 40; 22 Rep's.; 10' 7" Broad and 35 " Vert.; 4.06 20 yard shuttle and 6.82 3-Cone Drill. The 4th ranked CB. Impressive measurements but he's 5' 11".

You want a mid field hitter/ punisher? A football player that's all over the place banging big time? Look no further than LSU's Eric Reid. This fella is impressive and took charge at the college level. His grade is 82.5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msB2cYNL_o4

He wears that number 'ONE' but is he our number one round option? Grades ***

For a long time I liked the steady heady style of play of his teammate, ILB Kevin Minter. What do you see?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9VK_NP-cjc

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89708&draftyear=2013&genpos=ILB

*** Grades charade !

I look for the passion in a prospects game. Does he have game? Of course that can backfire in the 50/50 chance with a NFL draft pick. We thought/hoped that AJ Hawk had game. Too bad it didn't justify that #5 pick nor translate to the NFL level.

Then as Fritz posted; we get a Nick Collins. Ted Thompson is one out of two but we'll remember and grieve Nick Collins.

So is it glamour and flash and dash at the top of our next draft or smart?

I believe those three/four picks at the top have to go to impact and size. To the OL and DL.

After that it gets easier. After pick's #26 and #55 and #88 and #122 there are some 2500 prospects to pick from for RB, Safety and WR. We need a decent backup QB.... pronto!

We don't need a TE. Ted thompson and Mike McCarthy are obviously in some form of 'love affair' with Jermichael Finley. :-)

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

You just never see a post like JH's on Footballs Future :D

My hopes for Sherrod and somewhat dim view of Newhouse basically revolve around the prospect of the O line being better this year rather than last. I hope Sherrod does get healthy and comes around and I hope the Packers have good enough (and healthy enough) tackle talent to keep Newhouse on the bench.

And the reason I am invested in this hope is because I don't see them grabbing another starting caliber tackle in this draft.

If starting O line help does arrive in the draft it will probably be at center which is fine. But then Sherrod is the next, most likely player to contribute to better overall play.

Football Future.

They post over there like their always pissing their pants. Smart assed One-Two-Three sentence and outta here .... posts.

As posters..... the anti-matter equivalent to woodbuck27.

[woodbuck27]

Our front seven seems like a haphazard collection of decent players that really don't fit together in Capers's "whatever-amoeba-nickel" defense.

We'd probably be better off switching back to a 4-3 with the personnel we have. At least if we went back to a 4-3, Capers would be forced to put more than 1 DL on the field.

I'm hoping Capers gets fired mid-season... that would be cause for optimism :tup:

I think it's this and the 3-4:

a) Look at that decision to go there and the drafting of AJ Hawk. Following up in a subsequent draft; moving up in round one to snare Clay Matthrews III.

b) Was TT afraid of the cost of 'a real' DE or DT?

c) Ted Thompson was a LBer in the NFL.

d) AJ Hawk is likely looking at his last contract as a Green Bay Packer

e) Clay Matthews got handled by a crippled LT Vs San Francisco.

All that and TT's vision for our defense! Maybe TT needs to revise that vision?

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

This. People it wouldn't be called the read option if the point wasn't to make watch your defense and then take the option they can't defend. Now in the NFL there are options inside the option. The FB reads the OLB when choosing who to block. We were unprepared for that but we won't be next time.

Great confidence there and we need the talent on the Green Bay Packers to follow through.

It begins two weeks from yesterday... into two weeks from today and tomorrow.

GO TED THOMPSON !

[woodbuck27]

PBMax wrote...

"People of all stripes don't really care about scheme, drafting philosophy or scouting system. Fans want success. Capers was fine when it was a top 2 defense. Now that its fallen he is an idiot.

People also tend to forget how high a level the NFL is and what small errors can do to a team.

The best lesson anyone could take about the Packers Defense last year is assignment surety. Play fast and loose with your assignments (I am looking at you Raji and Walden), overcommit, lose leverage or give up an edge and Adrian Peterson gains 220 yards. Those errors can be mental or physical but they are not scheme or alignment.

Same players, same scheme in the playoffs get their act together and keep to the script. No more one gapping on your own and bursting into the backfield. No more headlong chases down the LOS giving up the backside cut. Gap control and patience. Peterson gets 100 yards and the game is on Ponder to win.

The Packer preach fast and aggressive defense. When you face Adrian Peterson with a good O line or the 49ers who are running a form of option at you, they simply turn your aggression into their advantage. Peterson's greatest strength is his patience and then his ability to see the hole crack open after the initial scrum and then kill you by bursting through.

I think KY and Nutz would agree that one trait of ANY option play is that they seek to isolate one player and have them make a choice and then send the ball to the area they just vacated. You follow Gore? CK keeps the ball. Falcons and Ravens run at CK to force a give? Twin double teams by the O line give Gore a six yard carry.

[U]If the Packers changed nothing about their defense except to repeat last year's discipline of the Vikings playoff game against the 49ers, Vikes and Redskins? Then start warming up the victory parade floats"



So...if it's all about discipline, then maybe there's room on the Packers' coaching staff for one more defensive assistant:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdML2CNSX9DNrKTYG0awRvehoQpnFX_ cK8i94_76DMB_crvQWrtg

Ahhhhh ..... some distraction strategy.

PACKERS !

[RashanGary]

Thanks for being cool, guys. In hindsight, I feel kinda stupid, but it's nice to go off like that and not be judged or ripped apart for it.T



Woody,

Zach Ertz is another guy who would be interesting. He's not a great athlete, but last year Waldo showed something where WR's had the least correlation between raw athleticism and NFL success. Ertz isn't really a bad athlete. His 3 cone and shuttles were good. His speed isn't bad. He really lacks explosiveness, and that does seem to be a really big trait when it comes to bloicking. He'd probably always be, at best, a below average blocker. If he has a ton of heart though, he could be a guy you can count on to always get in the guys way at least.

It seems like the Packers offense, with AR at the helm, is very reliant on chemistry between the QB/WR. Finley had like an 8-catch 1 or 2 TD game when Flynn started. Flynn has more of a, "my guy vs your guy" mentality. Finley just ran his route and Flynn just tossed him the ball. AR, seems to do well with players who understand what the defense is trying to do, and make little adjustments to really be open.

Ertz seems to have that quality. . . . He seems like a guy who has a natural feel for the game and is highly praised for his route running and hands. He could be a really good fit for us. Having a guy AR really trusts over the middle might be even more valuable than a guy with freakish athleticism like Finley is. And it's not like Ertz is a bad athlete. His agility and ability to cut are on par with probowl TE's.

I think he might be overlooked a little. . .

[Guiness]

Thanks for being cool, guys. In hindsight, I feel kinda stupid, but it's nice to go off like that and not be judged or ripped apart for it.T



I judged you. Do you care? :grin:

I judged it wouldn't be safe to let you near my sister. Or my poodle! :smack:

[RashanGary]

You watch the Ertz highlights, and I know they're highlights, but take a look at where he is in relation to the defense. If he has bracket coverage, he does a really good job pushing the safety deep and coming back. . . . He's really good at sitting down a little to keep a window open or pressing a DB to come back and make a window bigger. AR loves that shit. He loves to throw it to open receivers vs throwing into tight places and letting his guy make the play.

[Guiness]

4. Never, ever smarten up a chump.

5. If there's a con going on and you don't know who the mark it, you are the mark.

Stay with those basics and you should be all right.

4 and 5 should be 4 and 4a. Because if #5 is true, it's likely you are the chump and everyone else was following #4! You're not really on double secret probation.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_isUvlzkZPIQ/STMu0KfjToI/AAAAAAAAD50/UNRZVnv3H8Q/s320/Secret_Squirrel__300.gif

[woodbuck27]

Thanks for being cool, guys. In hindsight, I feel kinda stupid, but it's nice to go off like that and not be judged or ripped apart for it.T



Woody,

Zach Ertz is another guy who would be interesting. He's not a great athlete, but last year Waldo showed something where WR's had the least correlation between raw athleticism and NFL success. Ertz isn't really a bad athlete. His 3 cone and shuttles were good. His speed isn't bad. He really lacks explosiveness, and that does seem to be a really big trait when it comes to bloicking. He'd probably always be, at best, a below average blocker. If he has a ton of heart though, he could be a guy you can count on to always get in the guys way at least.

It seems like the Packers offense, with AR at the helm, is very reliant on chemistry between the QB/WR. Finley had like an 8-catch 1 or 2 TD game when Flynn started. Flynn has more of a, "my guy vs your guy" mentality. Finley just ran his route and Flynn just tossed him the ball. AR, seems to do well with players who understand what the defense is trying to do, and make little adjustments to really be open.

Ertz seems to have that quality. . . . He seems like a guy who has a natural feel for the game and is highly praised for his route running and hands. He could be a really good fit for us. Having a guy AR really trusts over the middle might be even more valuable than a guy with freakish athleticism like Finley is. And it's not like Ertz is a bad athlete. His agility and ability to cut are on par with probowl TE's.

I think he might be overlooked a little. . .

Thanks JH. I got alot out of that post.

Some excellent personal insight, that's what makes Packerrats very special. It's alot like 'Home and Family' here. Don't be a stranger JH. We need your input.

JH burn it .... but don't burn out MAN ! I've an idea of what your experiencing because of my compassion and dedication for Chance... and God Bless YOU.

[red]

5. If there's a con going on and you don't know who the mark it, you are the mark.



one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite movies



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZwW10yTsc

[RashanGary]

I judged you. Do you care? :grin:

I judged it wouldn't be safe to let you near my sister. Or my poodle! :smack:

That's not judgement. That's smart :) :) :)

Staying away from someone who might get you in a spot you don't want to be in is natural. People who know how to follow those instincts last a long time and keep themselves pretty safe.

To me, judgement and hate kind of go together. KY said, "be honest" in not so many words. I got the feeling he was thinking, eh, this guy needs to be careful for himself (and those he could affect.) He could have assumed worse and called me a piece of shit and hated me. Instead, he kind of expressed how dangerous it could be to myself and others. . .

I'm not stupid. In some ways I'm smart. While you might not have loved the responses I got (there are a lot more fulfilling ways to be looked at), they weren't horrible either. There are a lot worse ways to be looked at, I guarantee you that. Complete apathy and disgust would top that list.

[woodbuck27]

4 and 5 should be 4 and 4a. Because if #5 is true, it's likely you are the chump and everyone else was following #4! You're not really on double secret probation.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_isUvlzkZPIQ/STMu0KfjToI/AAAAAAAAD50/UNRZVnv3H8Q/s320/Secret_Squirrel__300.gif

Wow that's tougher that understanding the difference between a 5-Tech and a 3-Tech DE.

I love the way your selling it tough; with a smartly dressed Canadian beaver with a wad of $$$$ in his pockets.

Obviously he shops at 'the BAY'.

[wist43]

I don't understand you. Every team in the league runs more nickle than anything else and the 2-4 is just the most common nickle package for 3-4 teams. The 49ers ran a 2-4 most of the time against us. The only real difference between a 2-4 and a 4-2 is if the outside passrushers have a hand on the ground or not. When you think about it that way its obvious what Capers would do with a guy like Nick Perry or Tank Carradine. I guess this explains why you have such a hardon for the Seahawks, Giants, and Falcons despite all of them being a clear tier below the Packers, they are all 4-3 teams.

I don't agree that the only difference between a 4-2 and 2-4 is whether your ends have their hand on the ground or not. You have completely different personnel on the field, you're going to use them differently, and the offense is going block it differently.

You're going to have at least 1 more DL on the field, and you're still bringing the LB's and S's with a variety of blitzes. When Capers comes out in his vaunted 2-4, we're smaller up front, we don't squeeze the pocket, we don't get consistent pressure up the middle, and we're vulnerable to the run.

At the end of the 1st half against Seattle - 3rd and 6 or 7, deep in their own territory, they're trying to run the clock out and get to the locker room. Rookie QB who doesn't have his feet under him yet - what are the odds they run or pass??

I'd say it is about a 99% surething that they run - what defensive alignment does Mr. Spraypainted Hair come out in?? A 1-whatever, lol... 1 stinking DL on the field (Worthy).

Seattle snaps the ball, their offensive linemen, TE's, and FB smash our midgets in the mouth, run the ball for an easy 9 yard gain, and chuckle to each other as they calmly walk to the locker room for a refreshing lemonade.

I would prefer to be a 3-4 team, but we don't have good 3-4 personnel. A 3-4 team that only has 1 player on the roster that can 2-gap?? I may bitch about Capers all the time, but TT hasn't done him any favors in terms of providing him 3-4 personnel.

Capers is such a disaster though, that it's tough to evaluate any of the personnel we have on defense.

[woodbuck27]

You watch the Ertz highlights, and I know they're highlights, but take a look at where he is in relation to the defense. If he has bracket coverage, he does a really good job pushing the safety deep and coming back. . . . He's really good at sitting down a little to keep a window open or pressing a DB to come back and make a window bigger. AR loves that shit. He loves to throw it to open receivers vs throwing into tight places and letting his guy make the play.

It might be better for us if TT could somehow find a partner to trade back with. I believe TT would go in that direction in this draft in a New York minute.

Is that second (Our #26) ... worth the cost?

ie 700 points = the Chargers 2nd, 3rd and 5th round picks.

That #45 pick 'in a ballpark view' might land TE Zach Ertz, Stanford in the second round.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

I don't agree that the only difference between a 4-2 and 2-4 is whether your ends have their hand on the ground or not. You have completely different personnel on the field, you're going to use them differently, and the offense is going block it differently.

You're going to have at least 1 more DL on the field, and you're still bringing the LB's and S's with a variety of blitzes. When Capers comes out in his vaunted 2-4, we're smaller up front, we don't squeeze the pocket, we don't get consistent pressure up the middle, and we're vulnerable to the run.

At the end of the 1st half against Seattle - 3rd and 6 or 7, deep in their own territory, they're trying to run the clock out and get to the locker room. Rookie QB who doesn't have his feet under him yet - what are the odds they run or pass??

I'd say it is about a 99% surething that they run - what defensive alignment does Mr. Spraypainted Hair come out in?? A 1-whatever, lol... 1 stinking DL on the field (Worthy).

Seattle snaps the ball, their offensive linemen, TE's, and FB smash our midgets in the mouth, run the ball for an easy 9 yard gain, and chuckle to each other as they calmly walk to the locker room for a refreshing lemonade.

I would prefer to be a 3-4 team, but we don't have good 3-4 personnel. A 3-4 team that only has 1 player on the roster that can 2-gap?? I may bitch about Capers all the time, but TT hasn't done him any favors in terms of providing him 3-4 personnel.

Capers is such a disaster though, that it's tough to evaluate any of the personnel we have on defense.

Yup.

[3irty1]

I don't agree that the only difference between a 4-2 and 2-4 is whether your ends have their hand on the ground or not. You have completely different personnel on the field, you're going to use them differently, and the offense is going block it differently.

You're going to have at least 1 more DL on the field, and you're still bringing the LB's and S's with a variety of blitzes. When Capers comes out in his vaunted 2-4, we're smaller up front, we don't squeeze the pocket, we don't get consistent pressure up the middle, and we're vulnerable to the run.

At the end of the 1st half against Seattle - 3rd and 6 or 7, deep in their own territory, they're trying to run the clock out and get to the locker room. Rookie QB who doesn't have his feet under him yet - what are the odds they run or pass??

I'd say it is about a 99% surething that they run - what defensive alignment does Mr. Spraypainted Hair come out in?? A 1-whatever, lol... 1 stinking DL on the field (Worthy).

Seattle snaps the ball, their offensive linemen, TE's, and FB smash our midgets in the mouth, run the ball for an easy 9 yard gain, and chuckle to each other as they calmly walk to the locker room for a refreshing lemonade.

I would prefer to be a 3-4 team, but we don't have good 3-4 personnel. A 3-4 team that only has 1 player on the roster that can 2-gap?? I may bitch about Capers all the time, but TT hasn't done him any favors in terms of providing him 3-4 personnel.

Capers is such a disaster though, that it's tough to evaluate any of the personnel we have on defense.

You're being willfully ignorant. Both fronts look like this:
Edge Rusher - Interior Rusher - Interior Rusher - Edge Rusher

In that regard the personnel are the exact same and the OL will keep the same assignments. So basically you just think no 3-4 team should ever leave the 3-4 but its ok for 4-3 teams to leave the 4-3. I question why you'd prefer a 3-4 then.

In the scenario you recalled and complained about the result was a successful defensive stop. Just saying.

Fill this in for me, I'd like to understand how its possible that we don't have 3-4 personnel and/or don't use them properly yet have no use for a guy like Tank Carradine.
Wist's prototypical 3-4 OLB height and weight:
Wist's prototypical 3-4 DE height and weight:
Wist's prototypical 3-4 NT height and weight:

Wist's prototypical 4-3 DE height and weight:
Wist's prototypical 4-3 DT height and weight:

[wist43]

You're being willfully ignorant. Both fronts look like this:
Edge Rusher - Interior Rusher - Interior Rusher - Edge Rusher

In that regard the personnel are the exact same and the OL will keep the same assignments. So basically you just think no 3-4 team should ever leave the 3-4 but its ok for 4-3 teams to leave the 4-3. I question why you'd prefer a 3-4 then.

The difference is that in your 2-4 Matthews is an "edge rusher"; whereas in my 4-2 he's a LB. I'm probably sending him on a variety of blitzes on just about every snap, but he's still the LB. I would have 1 more big body on the field to get some push back into the pocket.

As for subpackages - that's going to vary from team to team, scheme to scheme, and is dependent on personnel. In the case of the Packers - we have a bunch of decent players that really don't fit a traditional 3-4... it is what it is.

Raji's not a NT, Worthy's a better 3T than a 5T, Perry never wanted to play OLB to begin with, Daniels is strictly a subpackage guy, Neal isn't an every down base DE; et al.

Throw into that mix some very pedestrian ILB's, and zero depth?? you'll have problems trying to establish an identity - it's not all Capers fault.


In the scenario you recalled and complained about the result was a successful defensive stop. Just saying.

How is the opponent achieving a 1st down, keeping the ball, and preventing us from having an opportunity to score - how is that a "defensive stop"?? They achieved their goal, we did not achieve our goal - and yet that's a win for us??

The scenario I gave you in the Seattle game was potential points off the board, i.e. if we stop them, we call TO, force them to punt from their end zone... 15-20 yds of offense and we're in FG range.

We didn't stop shit, and I'm sure the lemonade was indeed refreshing.

[pbmax]

If Matthews is a LB in a 4-2 and you send him on a rush, which of the four lineman is in pass coverage? Or are you sending five with Matthews blitzes?

[3irty1]

The difference is that in your 2-4 Matthews is an "edge rusher"; whereas in my 4-2 he's a LB. I'm probably sending him on a variety of blitzes on just about every snap, but he's still the LB. I would have 1 more big body on the field to get some push back into the pocket.

As for subpackages - that's going to vary from team to team, scheme to scheme, and is dependent on personnel. In the case of the Packers - we have a bunch of decent players that really don't fit a traditional 3-4... it is what it is.

Raji's not a NT, Worthy's a better 3T than a 5T, Perry never wanted to play OLB to begin with, Daniels is strictly a subpackage guy, Neal isn't an every down base DE; et al.

Throw into that mix some very pedestrian ILB's, and zero depth?? you'll have problems trying to establish an identity - it's not all Capers fault.



How is the opponent achieving a 1st down, keeping the ball, and preventing us from having an opportunity to score - how is that a "defensive stop"?? They achieved their goal, we did not achieve our goal - and yet that's a win for us??

The scenario I gave you in the Seattle game was potential points off the board, i.e. if we stop them, we call TO, force them to punt from their end zone... 15-20 yds of offense and we're in FG range.

We didn't stop shit, and I'm sure the lemonade was indeed refreshing.

In a 4-3 Matthews is still a situational passrusher aka Bruce Irvin for your super physical bonerhawks. Raji is a NT, he's just also more. The quality that made him a top 10 pick is his burst off the line which is pretty unheard of for a guy his size and shape. He's a 3-down NT which as far as I knew wasn't previously a thing. So even though his ability to anchor isn't what makes him special, and I will even agree that Pickett is the more impossible of the two to move, Raji is still a stud in this defense when he's fresh. Daniels is a subpackage player in any defense but a good one. The Jury is certainly out on Perry but players in his mold have been outrageously successful as 3-4 OLB. He can't be ruled a miscast yet. You think there's zero depth because you have a severe case of amnesia when it comes to realizing we're perennially injured. Our depth has been starting.

In your scenario the offense didn't achieve its objective which is to score. It was a prevent defense with as much speed on the field as we could muster. Terrible example of a poor Capers play call, although they certainly exist.

[wist43]

If Matthews is a LB in a 4-2 and you send him on a rush, which of the four lineman is in pass coverage? Or are you sending five with Matthews blitzes?

Is there a rule that says you can only send four guys?? A sort of cordiality agreement between Capers and the opposing QB?? Maybe that's why Capers refused to allow anyone to tackle Kaepernick??

I once saw a team send 5 guys... there wasn't a flag on the play - maybe the officials just missed it??

[wist43]

In a 4-3 Matthews is still a situational passrusher aka Bruce Irvin for your super physical bonerhawks. Raji is a NT, he's just also more. The quality that made him a top 10 pick is his burst off the line which is pretty unheard of for a guy his size and shape. He's a 3-down NT which as far as I knew wasn't previously a thing. So even though his ability to anchor isn't what makes him special, and I will even agree that Pickett is the more impossible of the two to move, Raji is still a stud in this defense when he's fresh. Daniels is a subpackage player in any defense but a good one. The Jury is certainly out on Perry but players in his mold have been outrageously successful as 3-4 OLB. He can't be ruled a miscast yet. You think there's zero depth because you have a severe case of amnesia when it comes to realizing we're perennially injured. Our depth has been starting.

Dude, good depth is Lou Gehrig - Frank Zombo?? Francios?? Brad Jones?? Lattimore??

Throw on top of that pedestrian starters like AJ Hawk and CJ Wilson??

And the miscast toys that are the starters??

Add it all up and you have a mess.

If you made the argument that Capers has to put lipstick on a pig - I'd agree with you; but then you'd have to agree to indict TT for not providing talent - which of course you won't do either!!!

It's one of the two - or a combination of both; but I don't know how Packer fans can look at our front seven and give TT and Capers an "attaboy".



In your scenario the offense didn't achieve its objective which is to score. It was a prevent defense with as much speed on the field as we could muster. Terrible example of a poor Capers play call, although they certainly exist.

This is strategy 101 stuff...

Seattle's goal was not to score in that situation - their goal was to get a 1st down and prevent us from getting the ball back with a short field.

Not that it would have mattered had we got the ball back - Rodgers spent the entire 1st half on his back as McCarthy refused to adjust his playcalling, and Rodgers was sacked an mind numbing 8 times in the 1st half!!!!!

[3irty1]

Dude, good depth is Lou Gehrig - Frank Zombo?? Francios?? Brad Jones?? Lattimore??

Throw on top of that pedestrian starters like AJ Hawk and CJ Wilson??

And the miscast toys that are the starters??

Add it all up and you have a mess.

If you made the argument that Capers has to put lipstick on a pig - I'd agree with you; but then you'd have to agree to indict TT for not providing talent - which of course you won't do either!!!

It's one of the two - or a combination of both; but I don't know how Packer fans can look at our front seven and give TT and Capers an "attaboy".




This is strategy 101 stuff...

Seattle's goal was not to score in that situation - their goal was to get a 1st down and prevent us from getting the ball back with a short field.

Not that it would have mattered had we got the ball back - Rodgers spent the entire 1st half on his back as McCarthy refused to adjust his playcalling, and Rodgers was sacked an mind numbing 8 times in the 1st half!!!!!

Hilarious that you require hall of famers for good depth.

I'm not particularly a fan of Capers. Don't know who I'd rather have but I am of the opinion that 2011 is unacceptable regardless of his superbowl winningness. But I also recognize that the defense is going to change and retool this year with the loss of Woodson who was really the cog that made the 2-4 nickel so good in 2010. His abilities near the LOS made the 2-4 play like a 4-3. Not a 4-2 but a 4-3. It was a winning strategy. Him moving on probably means the death of the 2-4 as a legit run defense, not that it has been that for a couple of years now.

Where I'm disagreeing with you is that the players don't fit the scheme. I think they do, I just don't like the scheme. Not since Woodson won DPotY has he really designed a scheme to showcase the best qualities of the best players which is what good coordinators do. TT still gets an attaboy from me.

CJ Wilson is the other 2-gap specialist on this defense. I'm surprised you singled him out. Players like him that play way above their pay grade are the rock of a good roster IMO. I'm with you on AJ Hawk I guess but its not like if he left Green Bay he wouldn't start somewhere else.

[wist43]

Where I'm disagreeing with you is that the players don't fit the scheme. I think they do, I just don't like the scheme. Not since Woodson won DPotY has he really designed a scheme to showcase the best qualities of the best players which is what good coordinators do. TT still gets an attaboy from me.

CJ Wilson is the other 2-gap specialist on this defense. I'm surprised you singled him out. Players like him that play way above their pay grade are the rock of a good roster IMO. I'm with you on AJ Hawk I guess but its not like if he left Green Bay he wouldn't start somewhere else.

Maybe the best way to put it is - we really don't have a scheme. I'm a cheerleader for a base 3-4, but what Capers throws out there certainly isn't that. Maybe call it '5 DB's and a bunch of guys defense'.

TT talked about body type when we switched over a few years ago, but hasn't really followed thru. From that perspective, Carradine is fine pick.

Capers should have been fired this past offseason, but we're stuck with him for another year. I fully expect our defense to pretty much be a repeat of last year - good against poor offenses, and completely overmatched and outcoached against the power playoff teams.

That adds up to Capers being fired - a day for celebration in Packerland!!!

[Bretsky]

Dear Wist....get your ass over there and make some comments about my projected Mock Draft and offer what you would do differently.

BTW, I agree on many of the JAGS you point out

[3irty1]

Maybe the best way to put it is - we really don't have a scheme. I'm a cheerleader for a base 3-4, but what Capers throws out there certainly isn't that. Maybe call it '5 DB's and a bunch of guys defense'.

TT talked about body type when we switched over a few years ago, but hasn't really followed thru. From that perspective, Carradine is fine pick.

Capers should have been fired this past offseason, but we're stuck with him for another year. I fully expect our defense to pretty much be a repeat of last year - good against poor offenses, and completely overmatched and outcoached against the power playoff teams.

That adds up to Capers being fired - a day for celebration in Packerland!!!

What I don't like about Capers' scheme has nothing to do with the personnel. I think he does a good job of getting our best guys on the field even if he doesn't manage to showcase the best players he's pretty good at hiding the shitty ones like Peprah. He's like McCarthy in that the defense is defined by volume. They seem to have infinite plays, wrinkles, and formations and it shows in that they aren't good at any one thing. McCarthy keeps his offense disciplined and modular enough to make it work but Capers has no plan B when the smoke an mirrors isn't working. During the last 10 years the best defense during that span has been Lovie Smith's Bears. When you watch them they are just straight forward cover 2 on nearly every play with different ways to disguise the looks. And since that's all they do they are just plain good at it. I wish Capers at least had that. Something we've run a zillion times and the guys know well enough to play as a gelled unit and to stay out of their own way.

[woodbuck27]

What I don't like about Capers' scheme has nothing to do with the personnel. I think he does a good job of getting our best guys on the field even if he doesn't manage to showcase the best players he's pretty good at hiding the shitty ones like Peprah. He's like McCarthy in that the defense is defined by volume. They seem to have infinite plays, wrinkles, and formations and it shows in that they aren't good at any one thing. McCarthy keeps his offense disciplined and modular enough to make it work but Capers has no plan B when the smoke an mirrors isn't working. During the last 10 years the best defense during that span has been Lovie Smith's Bears. When you watch them they are just straight forward cover 2 on nearly every play with different ways to disguise the looks. And since that's all they do they are just plain good at it. I wish Capers at least had that. Something we've run a zillion times and the guys know well enough to play as a gelled unit and to stay out of their own way.

Yes... a keep it simple 'not complicated /stupid' defense.

I do believe it comes down to talent though. We're not talking any dog and training >>>tricks.

Race horses set to run in the Breeders Cup's are developed from breeding. Any coach can 'only' do so much with inferior talent. It's like anything else. You get what you pay for. Profit results from proper investment and not magical thinking.

Ted Thompson cannot get by 'on cheap'. Bringing back inferior talent gets simply more of your inferior talent.

This developing situation with mega deals for Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews will make it even tougher on the man that TT is. That man has to rethink some of his ways.

More water added to coolaid gives you watered down coolaid. Not really yummy.

PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Well, in previous years wist you were for being multiple. So if I take the on its surface inconsistency of wishes for base 3-4 and multiplicity, I would guess you now want a hybrid 3-4, that can run anything from static 3-4 for run expectation to an under 4-3 look for multiple blitzing opportunities. Always with 3 DL.

And while Capers does run that under 4-3 look out there, this is a big gap in the middle. With no safety like Collins and no ILB who can cover TEs, crosses and the like, the middle of the field is desperately vulnerable. And without the combo of Collins speed and recognition, the corners are left with less help deep when there is a single guy back there.

Maybe Jones can be the piece of the puzzle that solves coverage issues inside, but you would think the D coaches would notice him after 4 years. The only thing holding my enthusiasm back for him is the fact that 5 professional coaches aren't trying to get him on the field until 2 other ILBs get knocked out.

So you have to run with the personnel you have and this might get to 3irty1's point; if the personnel come up short in some areas, perhaps less volume and better execution would be the better route. Because execution along stopped Peterson in the playoff game.

The one thing that would make all this work better is pressure, which we saw last year. However it isn't overwhelming pressure and there is a decided lack of effective blitzes.

What this defense needs is a single freak at any of several positions. But since they are drafting late in every round, you have to be careful to manage that risk with getting competent players to perform roles cheaply. Because Rodgers/Matthews/Raji's contracts will not make this any easier.

[Fritz]

Well, in previous years wist you were for being multiple. So if I take the on its surface inconsistency of wishes for base 3-4 and multiplicity, I would guess you now want a hybrid 3-4, that can run anything from static 3-4 for run expectation to an under 4-3 look for multiple blitzing opportunities. Always with 3 DL.

And while Capers does run that under 4-3 look out there, this is a big gap in the middle. With no safety like Collins and no ILB who can cover TEs, crosses and the like, the middle of the field is desperately vulnerable. And without the combo of Collins speed and recognition, the corners are left with less help deep when there is a single guy back there.

Maybe Jones can be the piece of the puzzle that solves coverage issues inside, but you would think the D coaches would notice him after 4 years. The only thing holding my enthusiasm back for him is the fact that 5 professional coaches aren't trying to get him on the field until 2 other ILBs get knocked out.

So you have to run with the personnel you have and this might get to 3irty1's point; if the personnel come up short in some areas, perhaps less volume and better execution would be the better route. Because execution along stopped Peterson in the playoff game.

The one thing that would make all this work better is pressure, which we saw last year. However it isn't overwhelming pressure and there is a decided lack of effective blitzes.

What this defense needs is a single freak at any of several positions. But since they are drafting late in every round, you have to be careful to manage that risk with getting competent players to perform roles cheaply. Because Rodgers/Matthews/Raji's contracts will not make this any easier.

Well put. Whether it's a safety or in ILB or a nose tackle or a DE, this teams needs another difficult-to-account-for defender. I would have added the outside LB to the list, but just as is the case with offensive tackle, I get a little leery of drafting a first or second round guy to compete with other very recent first round picks at the same position. At least if those recent picks are still considered to have a fair amount of upside.

I also agree that simplifying this defense might be a good idea. The deception is all well and good but the execution often seems lacking. You can send the hot dog vendor in on a blitz from the stands but if he gets engulfed by one blocker then what's the difference?

[pbmax]

I also agree that simplifying this defense might be a good idea. The deception is all well and good but the execution often seems lacking. You can send the hot dog vendor in on a blitz from the stands but if he gets engulfed by one blocker then what's the difference?

Running a vast array of schemes might be something you do if personnel make you desperate. I don't think that is the case with the Packers. Despite injuries the defense finished up from the previous year moving into the middle of the pack.

I also don't think they are throwing the kitchen sink at these guys. They play mostly man in the back and occasional zone. Both one and two deep safeties. They can run base, 3-4, nickel and dime personnel as well as psycho. From those fronts they have the cross blitz, fire zones, CB and safety blitzes. Seems perhaps like a big list to you and me, but that's not an enormous package of options in the NFL.

My concern falls in between too much and player concern: why did it take two games of regular season prep against Petersom to get everyone to play the scheme correctly in the playoffs?

[3irty1]

Running a vast array of schemes might be something you do if personnel make you desperate. I don't think that is the case with the Packers. Despite injuries the defense finished up from the previous year moving into the middle of the pack.

I also don't think they are throwing the kitchen sink at these guys. They play mostly man in the back and occasional zone. Both one and two deep safeties. They can run base, 3-4, nickel and dime personnel as well as psycho. From those fronts they have the cross blitz, fire zones, CB and safety blitzes. Seems perhaps like a big list to you and me, but that's not an enormous package of options in the NFL.

My concern falls in between too much and player concern: why did it take two games of regular season prep against Petersom to get everyone to play the scheme correctly in the playoffs?

True the defense was much improved from 2011. I still think Capers runs a gimmicky defense by design which is also evidenced by how badly it breaks when it does break. It breaks beyond game day adjustments.

The personnel is a lot more complicated than you're making it sound. I've seen the 3-4, the big okie and 4-4 split, 4 versions of the 2-4, a 3-3-5, psycho, and 3 versions of the dime. In addition various short yardage packages which never quite look the same because we never have enough healthy defensive lineman. At one point the scheme was defined by zone blitzes from which every combo of 4 and 5 rushers can be sent out of the front 7. That's a shitload of stuff to practice. Especially with the kind of roster turnover we've been having.

[Fritz]

I am not a huge Capers fan, and I'm not really a big 3-4 fan. But that's not because I'm smart and I see things others don't; it's because I grew up in the 70's in the days of great defensive lines (Steelers, Cowboys) and I saw the havoc that could be wreaked.

The three-four seems to require a tremendous amount of self-discipline. You've got to stay in your lane and do your job, even if you think you can make a big play for a loss. That would be hard. But I hope the Packers' coaching staff does a better job of teaching that this year. Just do the job you're supposed to do, be where you're supposed to be, and it'll all work out. Show them film of the three Vikes games, and ask them which one they liked best.

[RashanGary]

I don't know if this was common knowledge, but I didn't know it. I think MM said Derrek Sherrod had another surgery on his leg after last season. Did I hear that right?

[RashanGary]

I'm betting Bakhtiari beats Sherrod for the backup LT spot. He's probably further along physically and not far off mentally having come from good OL coaches.

[gbgary]

I don't know if this was common knowledge, but I didn't know it. I think MM said Derrek Sherrod had another surgery on his leg after last season. Did I hear that right?

that's what he said. caught media by surprise too. said he's doing much better since the second operation.

[rbaloha1]

I'm betting Bakhtiari beats Sherrod for the backup LT spot. He's probably further along physically and not far off mentally having come from good OL coaches.

Bakhtiari is the starting left tackle.

Sherrod's career could be over.

[KYPack]

that's what he said. caught media by surprise too. said he's doing much better since the second operation.

What was the date of the second procedure?

If it was fall or winter, Sherry might not be available this season, either.

[denverYooper]

Bakhtiari probably needs a year in the weight room.

[rbaloha1]

Bakhtiari probably needs a year in the weight room.

Needs more weight but Newhouse is not the answer.

Its possible to put on 10 lbs in the next 3-4 months.

[Carolina_Packer]

During the off-season workout program that was just started recently, does the media cover any of the player activity, and has anyone spotted Sherrod at the facility, or has he been out of the spotlight? I just wondered if anyone has seen him, or heard anything about his progression.

[gbgary]

What was the date of the second procedure?

If it was fall or winter, Sherry might not be available this season, either.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/sherrod-making-progress-in-rehab-gn9n97g-205050281.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


"I'm really counting on Derek Sherrod to be a factor," the coach said. "He's a different man since the second surgery after the season. So he's making progress.

"I don't have a timeline for you, but he's definitely a lot better than he was during the season. So he's someone we have to get healthy, get him in there and get him ready."

[pbmax]

Gary's quotes from JSO are the positive side of M3's answer to the question, but I just listened to the press conference and it had the air of a coach not wanting to make any specific promise about availability but still be a cheerleader. That could mean he still isn't ready to go yet.

My enthusiasm for Sherrod taking over LT this year took a hit during that answer.

In answer to KYPack's question, Mike only said it was after the season.

[Guiness]

Gary's quotes from JSO are the positive side of M3's answer to the question, but I just listened to the press conference and it had the air of a coach not wanting to make any specific promise about availability but still be a cheerleader. That could mean he still isn't ready to go yet.

My enthusiasm for Sherrod taking over LT this year took a hit during that answer.

In answer to KYPack's question, Mike only said it was after the season.

After this last season? He's had surgery since January '13? That sucks.

[Patler]

Just a guess here, but I wonder if the 2nd surgery was simply to remove some of the screws. For active people, sometimes the screws can be the source of a lot of discomfort, and removing some of the screws can help. From MM's description, it seems that could be the case with Sherrod.

[denverYooper]

Needs more weight but Newhouse is not the answer.

Its possible to put on 10 lbs in the next 3-4 months.

Visions of Bulaga at LT and Bakhitari at RT.

[pbmax]

They also simply refuse to rule out Bulaga at LT and simply insist conversations are on-going. At this point, unless they love the rookie or Sherrod is a go from Day 1 in OTA, you would think he is going to see some time over there. Which is going to be tough as he struggled mightily for a few games on the right side last year before the injury.

[rbaloha1]

Again the Persian was drafted to be the left tackle.

Love his feet and finish. Watch the SC tape -- still playing hard late in a blowout loss.

[RashanGary]

Here's some Sherrod tape. You watch the Bakhtari tape and it's close to flawless as far as his steps and punches. He looks a little clumsy when he's running down field, but his sets/punches and point of attack run blocking are spot on every time. Then you watch Sherrod get walked back like a little bitch from time to time and get beat from time to time. I just don't get the Sherry love. He just never seems to knock anyone back with his punch. I give him credit, when he blocks guys under 220 lbs, he seems to man handle them, but against college lineman, he mostly gets in the way, but he just looks weak. I don't like the Sherrod pick, that's no secret, but this just shows it more and more, especially when compared to how solid and consistent this years 4th rounder looks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRmI6EvsnWU



Bakhtiari tape


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEwGbfY8rQ8

[RashanGary]

That's the difference between good college coaching and bad college coaching. Teams like to draft guys who are ready to play. Teams draft lineman from Colorado. They don't from Mississippi State. This is why. One guy is a big fucking project, and the other guy is pretty much ready to play. Mother fucker, I hate Sherry.

[RashanGary]

Anyone who says Sherrod played as good of a game as Bakhtiari does not know football. Sherrod had moments where he looked like a dancing bear and moments where he looked outclassed. Bakhtiari consistently gets his weight under him and punches. Sherrod's pass sets don't end in those good, authorative punches. He gets in the way. His feet are good, but his punch is just not there. And as a point of attack run blocker, he's not as consistent as Bakhtiari. High potential project vs quality, ready to play lineman. Sherrod looks better on the 2nd level, in space. At times, his size and the way he moves is just downright impressive. But as far as being a consistent blocker, he's just not. He has big holes in his game. And he's barely played since college. It's not like he's some finished product today. He's been in the operating room and in the hot tub. He's pretty much the same guy he was 3 years ago.

Bakhtiari is going to surprise people. Sherrod will disappoint.

[rbaloha1]

That's the difference between good college coaching and bad college coaching. Teams like to draft guys who are ready to play. Teams draft lineman from Colorado. They don't from Mississippi State. This is why. One guy is a big fucking project, and the other guy is pretty much ready to play. Mother fucker, I hate Sherry.

Colorado has a number of ex NFL coaches that are good coaches but not so good recruiters.

[RashanGary]

The same reason I knock Sherrod's readiness, gives reason to believe Newhouse has room to improve his game. He too, came from a school that does not prepare lineman for the NFL. He was a project. Projects are projects. You like to see them getting better, and Newhouse has been doing that since day 1. He's going to be better this year. He's going to have a fight on his hands though. Bakhtiari has game.

Unlike Newhouse though, Sherrod has almost no experience in the NFL. Barely any practice time and even less game time. He was a project who remains in stage 1. He hasn't gotten better. Projects need work, and Sherrod has had none of it.

[3irty1]

Slow down JH. We don't need Bakhtiari to be this year's recipient of the JH Alex Green Memorial Hype Curse.

[Pugger]

I'm betting Bakhtiari beats Sherrod for the backup LT spot. He's probably further along physically and not far off mentally having come from good OL coaches.

If Sherrod is healthy do you not think he can beat Newhouse for the starter's position or are you looking at moving Bulaga over to the left? I don't know if I'd be all that thrilled with having Bakhtiari at LT.