Did the Packers Try to Get Bigger?

[Fritz]

I posted this in another thread, but I think it deserves its own thread as I'd like to see your analysis of this.

I've been meaning to respond to Tom Silverstein's article after the draft, which carried the smallnsoft theory into an analysis of the latest draft class. The argument is that when you look at the players the Packers drafted, it's evidence they are obviously trying to get bigger, and by implication, tougher. I'm not sure how the two are connected exactly, so I won't speak to the toughness issue. However, I would like to present some comparisons between the size of the players drafted this year and those playing the same or similar positions that the Packers have picked up in the last year or two prior to the recent draft.

Here's the link to Silverstein's article:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/205047001.html

Okay:

Offensive linemen:

2012 Andrew Datko 6-6, 315
2013 D. Bahktaeri 6-4, 301
J. Tretter 6-3, 307

Defensive linemen:

2012 J. Worthy 6-2, 308
M. Daniels 6-0, 291
2013 D. Jones, 6-4, 280
J. Boyd 6-2, 307

Linebackers:

2012: Nick Perry 6-3, 270
T. Manning 6-2, 237
2013: N. Palmer 6-2, 248
S. Barrington, 6-1, 240

Running backs:

2011-2012: A. Green 6-0, 225
D. Harris, 5-7, 197
2013: E. Lacy 5-11, 229
J. Franklin 5-10, 200

Wide Receivers:

2011 - 12: R. Cobb 5-10, 191
J. Ross 5-11, 213
J. Boykin 6-2, 218
2013: C. Johnson 6-2, 215
K. Dorsey 6-1, 207

Corner/Safety

2012: C Heyward 5-11, 185
J. McMillian 5-11, 203
2013: M Hyde 5-11, 194


I'm not going to get into deep analysis; others are more adept. I am not, on the surface, seeing this year's draft class as especially "bigger."

[hoosier]

They got rid of DJ Smith, and he was a midget, so yes, they got bigger by subtraction.

[rbaloha1]

Yes -- the players have frames to get larger and by no means finished products.

Check out some of their weight history i.e Jones, persian guy, cornell guy, etc.

[rbaloha1]

Yes, to match the large trend.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/hgh-use-in-nfl-increasing-fk9hbg9-205497661.html

[3irty1]

I see no reason to think they went into this draft with anymore emphasis on size than in previous drafts.

[pbmax]

Yes, to match the large trend.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/hgh-use-in-nfl-increasing-fk9hbg9-205497661.html

Are you saying they took players who will now need to be on HGH or were already on HGH?

[Patler]

Bakhtiari and Trotter are smaller than their recent picks O-line were when they were drafted, and most of the previous ones were also said to have frames capable of being even bigger. Guys like Sherrod, Datko and Newhouse were all said to be able to get bigger, especially Sherrod and Datko, who look thin (for O-linemen, that is!) An article last year on Datko, who is 6'6", said they thought he could easily get to the 330# level, and maybe more. Same for Sherrod, who is just as tall and already bigger than Datko.

Is Lacy more physical than Starks can be? Will he be on the field more?
Jerron McMillan is bigger than Hyde, and was said to be a huge hitter in college, who might have to dial it back a bit in the NFL. Not tall, but solid. Not sure he will turn out to be much more than a cheaper version of Bush.

They did get a couple interesting size/speed combinations at WR. Hopefully they will learn how to recognize defenses, get off the line of scrimmage and run routes like NFL players.

[rbaloha1]

Persian guy and Trotter are young and still growing into their NFL bodies.

All draft picks are projections into something they currently are not.

[Patler]

Persian guy and Trotter are young and still growing into their NFL bodies.

All draft picks are projections into something they currently are not.

While I'm not 100% certain. it appears that Tretter is actually older than Datko, and just months younger than Sherrod and Barclay.
Bakhtiari is just a pup.

[rbaloha1]

"Then I wanted to be an NFL offensive lineman. It's been a long road since I was a 230-pound quarterback in high school to a 310-pound lineman." Tretter

[rbaloha1]

Bob McGinn - Grizz: McCarthy saw that his offense was much more efficient down the stretch in 2012 when DuJuan Harris finally gave him some semblance of a run game. The Packers were pushed around twice by the 49ers and once by the NYG. It made a major impression on the organization. They vowed to get bigger players and tougher players. Period. Almost every roster move that they have made in 2013 has been done with those two factors in mind, as colleague Tom Silverstein eloquently pointed out in his fine Sunday story. Lacy and Franklin were drafted to be the team's future backfield. It could happen by September.

[rbaloha1]

Bob McGinn - Nick: Rome wasn't built in a day. GB is a formidable foe for any team in the NFC. The NFC also has power teams in Seattle and SF, and maybe ATL. Give the Packers a heap of credit for not sticking their heads in the sand and deluding themselves into thinking they didn't get physically pounded several teams a year ago. They are smart football people. No matter what they say in public, in private they see it the way it is. And they knew it was time to stop drafting exceptions and start adding bigger, tougher players. It's just the way it is.

[wist43]

I see no reason to think they went into this draft with anymore emphasis on size than in previous drafts.

That's true... their templates stayed the same.

When I was looking at offensive linemen, I saw the muslim guy listed fairly high - I never looked at him, b/c I thought he was too small. Of course, the Packers zeroed right in on him.

[wist43]

If the charge against you is that you're small and soft - it's tough to defend yourself when you draft the smallest OT in the draft.

How many NFL offensive linemen, other than centers, are under 300 lbs?? The persian guy was listed at 299 lbs... like I said, never looked at him b/c he was too small.

[Patler]

Gotta agree with Wist here, how can you argue they lived up to some unspoken promise to get bigger when the two O-lineman they drafted are much smaller than others they have drafted recently and become the smallest on the roster, the DE they drafted isn't much bigger than Perry and is smaller but taller than Neal, Franklin is a smallish RB, the two linebackers are the size of or smaller than Moses, and Hyde is about the size of House?

Looks like a typical mix of Packer draft picks, probably tending toward the more athletic but smaller players available. Just don't see the facts supporting Silverstein's and McGinn's arguments at all.

[3irty1]

That's true... their templates stayed the same.

When I was looking at offensive linemen, I saw the muslim guy listed fairly high - I never looked at him, b/c I thought he was too small. Of course, the Packers zeroed right in on him.

I didn't consider him either. His size for one but also where he was supposed to be drafted. Sites I saw had him listed as a 2nd-3rd rounder. So I just assumed he got to be too much value down there in the 4th.

[rbaloha1]

Gotta agree with Wist here, how can you argue they lived up to some unspoken promise to get bigger when the two O-lineman they drafted are much smaller than others they have drafted recently and become the smallest on the roster, the DE they drafted isn't much bigger than Perry and is smaller but taller than Neal, Franklin is a smallish RB, the two linebackers are the size of or smaller than Moses, and Hyde is about the size of House?

Looks like a typical mix of Packer draft picks, probably tending toward the more athletic but smaller players available. Just don't see the facts supporting Silverstein's and McGinn's arguments at all.

Its called draft projection vs. what is available at the time of the pick. A big fat scrub is not worth taking against a current undersized prospect that can get bigger and become a legit starter.

Persian guy works out with the Claymaker -- he will get bigger and more flexible.

[Patler]

Its called draft projection vs. what is available at the time of the pick. A big fat scrub is not worth taking against a current undersized prospect that can get bigger and become a legit starter.

Persian guy works out with the Claymaker -- he will get bigger and more flexible.

The point is, that isn't really a shift for the Packers. They have always gone that way, even with picks like Datko and Sherrod who had OK size but were expected to be able to get bigger because of their height and frames. The have often drafted weight room addicts too, like Spitz and Neal.

I can't see anything different in their approach this year to that of any other year.

[rbaloha1]

It is certainly not obvious.

[wist43]

Its called draft projection vs. what is available at the time of the pick. A big fat scrub is not worth taking against a current undersized prospect that can get bigger and become a legit starter.

Persian guy works out with the Claymaker -- he will get bigger and more flexible.

Will he get bigger?? Have you seen this guy??

He has one of the strangest builds on a human being have ever seen - he's all legs and arms, and no torso. Body goes right from his hips to his neck with nothing in-between :)

[Fritz]

If the charge against you is that you're small and soft - it's tough to defend yourself when you draft the smallest OT in the draft.

How many NFL offensive linemen, other than centers, are under 300 lbs?? The persian guy was listed at 299 lbs... like I said, never looked at him b/c he was too small.


Here's where I agree with Wist. If you're supposedly hyper-vigilant about drafting bigger players, how come these guys don't seem, with one or two exceptions, any bigger than any of the guys they got last year?

[rbaloha1]

Will he get bigger?? Have you seen this guy??

He has one of the strangest builds on a human being have ever seen - he's all legs and arms, and no torso. Body goes right from his hips to his neck with nothing in-between :)

RU privy to their workouts?

[RashanGary]

Holy fuck, you've been here since the beginning and you're just now becoming the most annoying poster ever. WTF?

[rbaloha1]

Holy fuck, you've been here since the beginning and you're just now becoming the most annoying poster ever. WTF?

Mod -- another unprovoked attack -- please handle -- thank you.