Last-Chance Charlies

[Fritz]

So who are the guys for whom this is the last chance with this team? The guys for whom this training camp means a job...or a visit from The Turk?

And I don't mean undrafted rookies. I mean guys who've been around at least one year. Like...

Mason Crosby
Andrew Datko
Derrick Sherrod (though perhaps they'd PUP him once more)
James Starks

Add to the list. Explain why. For example, you could make a case that Marshall Newhouse could be on this list. Or Andrew Quarless. Or...?

PS - damn IPad automatically and incorrectly threw an apostrophe in the thread title. Can that be fixed?

[Guiness]

PS - damn IPad automatically and incorrectly threw an apostrophe in the thread title. Can that be fixed?

Easily. Throw out the walled garden crap and get an Android device :-0

My entry in the Turk Deadpool is Tramon Williams. He has to show he can play up to his previous level. I'm surprised he wasn't asked to renegotiate this off-season with the weak CB market.

I don't agree with Datko. He spent last year on the PS (was he elevated at the end of the year?). I think he's in the same boat as any rookie. Maybe more competition than most, with the OL the Pack drafted.

[pittstang5]

Jarrett Bush

- We know the story - special teams ace, but sucks when he has to play CB. Special Teams play alone isn't going to save his job if one of the rookies can do what he does on special teams and then play better at CB if called upon.

[rbaloha1]

CROSBY

[denverYooper]

STILLS

[Zool]

NASH

[QBME]

AND YOUNG

[hoosier]

YOUNG players who might be getting a visit from the TURKs: Alex Green, DJ Williams, Quarless, Wilson. Green and Wilson because the Packers have already drafted their replacements. Quarless or Williams (but not both) because you cannot keep 4-5 TEs on the roster every year.

[Cleft Crusty]

YOUNG players who might be getting a visit from the TURKs: Alex Green, DJ Williams, Quarless, Wilson. Green and Wilson because the Packers have already drafted their replacements. Quarless or Williams (but not both) because you cannot keep 4-5 TEs on the roster every year.

I suspect the Packers are counting on Quarless to be the second tight end in multiple receiver formations to create the favorable mismatches they exploited so well in the past. Also, he can actually run block.

[denverYooper]

YOUNG players who might be getting a visit from the TURKs: Alex Green, DJ Williams, Quarless, Wilson. Green and Wilson because the Packers have already drafted their replacements. Quarless or Williams (but not both) because you cannot keep 4-5 TEs on the roster every year.

OLD MEN who need to LOOK AT THEIR LIVES include Johnny Jolly John Kuhn, and maybe on an outside chance, Tramon.

[run pMc]

I suspect the Packers are counting on Quarless to be the second tight end in multiple receiver formations to create the favorable mismatches they exploited so well in the past. Also, he can actually run block.

I agree, although if Quarless' injury renders him ineffective he could be cut. I think the team likes him and will give him every opportunity to stick. IMO if any of the TE's are on the chopping block it's Ryan Taylor. He's a good ST guy and so-so blocker, but the new guy Mulligan could push him for time as a blocking TE and they can field some crazy desperate UDFA or one of the reserve ILBs to take on his ST duties.

[Fritz]

OLD MEN who need to LOOK AT THEIR LIVES include Johnny Jolly John Kuhn, and maybe on an outside chance, Tramon.


Here's a name I would rather not include but feel compelled to: Mike Neal.

I like Mike Neal. A great deal. When you watch him play, he's got twitch and he hustles. If the play goes past him, he'll turn on his heel and try to run it down. I don't think he was really healthy and on until the end of the season, and I was impressed.

However, I think if he gets hurt, whether in training camp or season, and misses or is scheduled to miss more than two or three games, I think he'll be gone.

And what a shame. He can play.

[pittstang5]

I agree, although if Quarless' injury renders him ineffective he could be cut. I think the team likes him and will give him every opportunity to stick. IMO if any of the TE's are on the chopping block it's Ryan Taylor. He's a good ST guy and so-so blocker, but the new guy Mulligan could push him for time as a blocking TE and they can field some crazy desperate UDFA or one of the reserve ILBs to take on his ST duties.

I'd say both Ryan and DJ Williams should be on the look out to get cut. What has Williams done? - Nothing. The new guy - Mulligan, should be pretty safe. You don't sign another TE when you already have four others on the roster.

[Fritz]

I'd say both Ryan and DJ Williams should be on the look out to get cut. What has Williams done? - Nothing. The new guy - Mulligan, should be pretty safe. You don't sign another TE when you already have four others on the roster.

DJ Williams caught everything thing in camp last year, but disappeared during the season. I think he needs to focus on his blocking skills. Now.

[hoosier]

OLD MEN who need to LOOK AT THEIR LIVES include Johnny Jolly John Kuhn, and maybe on an outside chance, Tramon.

Jolly's been first and last but, if too much time has gone past, he'll be all alone at last.

[Brandon494]

I'd say both Ryan and DJ Williams should be on the look out to get cut. What has Williams done? - Nothing. The new guy - Mulligan, should be pretty safe. You don't sign another TE when you already have four others on the roster.

Didn't we keep 5 TEs last season? I hope we do keep Mulligan though because he is one hell of a blocker. Hopefully we'll keep Finley, Ouarless, Williams, and Mulligan at TE.

[Brandon494]

Starks, Dakto, and Taylor

[QBME]

Jolly's been first and last but, if too much time has gone past, he'll be all alone at last.

Rolling home to who?

[Tony Oday]

Hawk and Bishop

[Pugger]

I agree, although if Quarless' injury renders him ineffective he could be cut. I think the team likes him and will give him every opportunity to stick. IMO if any of the TE's are on the chopping block it's Ryan Taylor. He's a good ST guy and so-so blocker, but the new guy Mulligan could push him for time as a blocking TE and they can field some crazy desperate UDFA or one of the reserve ILBs to take on his ST duties.

I wish we knew how Quarless is coming along. :-?

[Patler]

Graham Harrell and BJ Coleman - only one makes the team, and I suspect it will be Coleman, based on potential.

Ryan Taylor and and DJ Williams - maybe one makes the team, but entirely possible that neither one does. Quarless makes the team, no problem, unless his injury was a career-ender, which I doubt. He might be their most all-around talent at TE. Mulligan will make the team based on blocking alone, with the Packers seeming desire to get better at running the ball. Bostick's name keeps cropping up, and since Williams and Taylor have done nothing, Bostick might be given a chance.

Tramon Williams - either he is starting, or he is gone

Jolly - obviously is on his last chance; but my gut feeling is that he will make it.

Mason Crosby - has to look rock solid.

James Starks - may not even get to camp. With his injury history, the Packers might simply let him go rather than risk him getting injured and forcing them to pay him for another season of contributing little. If Greene is healthy, and Lacy looks good during the early summer, they very well might simply cut Starks loose. He's probably #5 on the depth chart anyway.

Jamari Lattimore - has to actually do something on the field. Lots of guys looking to take his place. One probably will.

Datko may not make the team, but if he doesn't, they will try to keep him on the practice squad a second year; unless of course his shoulder is spagetti, and his career is done. The Packers are very patient with O-linemen, and will be especially with one who is athletic, 6'6" and plays LT. This guy was projected by many as a 2nd round pick going into his Senior season.

Neal is on the bubble based on injuries, but if he is healthy he will be given the season to show that the time and money invested in him was not wasted completely. He showed a little last year, and with Worthy recuperating, a spot is avakable,

[gbgary]

AND YOUNG

with Dallas Taylor

[red]

Jarrett Bush

- We know the story - special teams ace, but sucks when he has to play CB. Special Teams play alone isn't going to save his job if one of the rookies can do what he does on special teams and then play better at CB if called upon.

if that asshole hasn't been cut by now, i don't think he'll ever be released

hell last year we even found a team willing to take him off our hands and yet we somehow kept him

[Patler]

I've never understood all the hate for Jarrett Bush. He does what is asked of him without complaining. When they needed him in the Super Bowl, he stepped up and produced, because of his thorough preparation, even though he probably believed it was very unlikely that he would see any time at all on defense. Not every deep reserve would have been that prepared. I respect him for that.

He is what he is, a guy who seems to try his hardest to do what he can. He causes no problems and does his job the best that he can. Some year soon his spot will be taken by a younger player. I only hope it is a player who recognizes how fortunate he is to have the opportunity and approaches it with the professionalism that Jarrett Bush has.

[wist43]

Here's a name I would rather not include but feel compelled to: Mike Neal.

I like Mike Neal. A great deal. When you watch him play, he's got twitch and he hustles. If the play goes past him, he'll turn on his heel and try to run it down. I don't think he was really healthy and on until the end of the season, and I was impressed.

However, I think if he gets hurt, whether in training camp or season, and misses or is scheduled to miss more than two or three games, I think he'll be gone.

And what a shame. He can play.

I wouldn't include Neal on the charlies list. Before last season I would have, but he began to show some flashes of being a player here and there.

Since he has shown flashes, the question for me then becomes - is Capers using him to maximize his potential?? The obvious answer is always 'no' to that question, as Capers wouldn't know which spray paint to use on his hair in the morning if his wife didn't hand him the can.

My biggest Last-Chance Charlie is Dom Capers.

[Freak Out]

Great post Patler. Bush has won me over with his dedication on special teams over the years. Dude is a baller. A good CB...? Maybe not but he makes the special teams units he plays on pretty good.

[Fritz]

I wouldn't include Neal on the charlies list. Before last season I would have, but he began to show some flashes of being a player here and there.

Since he has shown flashes, the question for me then becomes - is Capers using him to maximize his potential?? The obvious answer is always 'no' to that question, as Capers wouldn't know which spray paint to use on his hair in the morning if his wife didn't hand him the can.

My biggest Last-Chance Charlie is Dom Capers.


If I started a thread on the question of who the Packers' best offensive player might be, you'd figure out how to answer it so that somehow Dom Capers' incompetence would be involved.

Could Dom Capers be to blame for the troubles in Syria?

I stilll believe, though, that if Neal is hurt and is expected to miss more than three games or so, he'll be cut. I think he's down to that last chance. But I hope he does not get hurt. I think he's what this defense needs.

I think Patler is right about Lattimore, and probably Francois falls into that category, too.

And DJ Williams definitely better pay attention to blocking.

Is Newhouse on the list for people?

[Joemailman]

Is Newhouse on the list for people?

He's on my list. If the 2 rookie OT's make the team, you could have Datko, Newhouse and Sherrod battling for the last OL spot. If Datko and Sherrod are healthy, Newhouse is probably the least talented of the 3.

[Iron Mike]

I wish we knew how Quarless is coming along. :-?

I think the light is going on for Brandon Bostick this year. There's my early TC prognostication.....

[Patler]

I don't think Newhouse is in trouble. He is probably their fallback guy for either tackle.
Bulaga has missed games somewhat routinely, and sticking in a replacement with two years starting experience is preferable to guys with no experience. Newhouse also played RT in games two years ago. He's still on his rookie contract, and a cheap one at that as a 5th round draft pick. I think Newhouse is in trouble only if a couple from the group of of Datko, Sherrod and the rookies have outstanding preseason performances.

Probably a long shot for a new contract next year, however.

[Guiness]

He's on my list. If the 2 rookie OT's make the team, you could have Datko, Newhouse and Sherrod battling for the last OL spot. If Datko and Sherrod are healthy, Newhouse is probably the least talented of the 3.

Mhm. But he has Hawk-like elite availability. No way you can ignore that with this team over the past few years.

[Patler]

Mhm. But he has Hawk-like elite availability. No way you can ignore that with this team over the past few years.

Yup, and considering Bulaga is exactly the opposite, missing time every year so far. Newhouse becomes a great security blanket; especially when you compare his experience to that of Sherrod, Datko and a couple rookies.

If he is healed and doesn't win the starting position at RT, I think Sherrod might be in more jeopardy than Newhouse.

[rbaloha1]

I've never understood all the hate for Jarrett Bush. He does what is asked of him without complaining. When they needed him in the Super Bowl, he stepped up and produced, because of his thorough preparation, even though he probably believed it was very unlikely that he would see any time at all on defense. Not every deep reserve would have been that prepared. I respect him for that.

He is what he is, a guy who seems to try his hardest to do what he can. He causes no problems and does his job the best that he can. Some year soon his spot will be taken by a younger player. I only hope it is a player who recognizes how fortunate he is to have the opportunity and approaches it with the professionalism that Jarrett Bush has.

Bush is a on trick pony and a liability on defense. Went from starter to nonexistant for a reason -- big time scrub.

[rbaloha1]

I wouldn't include Neal on the charlies list. Before last season I would have, but he began to show some flashes of being a player here and there.

Since he has shown flashes, the question for me then becomes - is Capers using him to maximize his potential?? The obvious answer is always 'no' to that question, as Capers wouldn't know which spray paint to use on his hair in the morning if his wife didn't hand him the can.

My biggest Last-Chance Charlie is Dom Capers.

Neal is a fake tough guy that I hope gets cut.

[rbaloha1]

Datko improved during preseason and has the measureables for a tackle.

[Patler]

Bush is a on trick pony and a liability on defense. Went from starter to nonexistant for a reason -- big time scrub.

Who is promoting him as a starter, or even as a first level reserve?
In building a roster for any sport, you look at a lot more than just front line players.
Bush has served a purpose on the Packers.

[Patler]

Datko improved during preseason and has the measureables for a tackle.

He is an interesting prospect. I sure hope his shoulder is finally fixed, but he has struggled with it for years.

[rbaloha1]

Who is promoting him as a starter, or even as a first level reserve?
In building a roster for any sport, you look at a lot more than just front line players.
Bush has served a purpose on the Packers.

Last season he was the starter. Big time liability on defense. Great gunner on st.

[pbmax]

Why look at this, says right here that Jarrett Bush was a starter last season. Yep.

In one game.


Rk Player Year Age Draft Tm Lg G GS
1 Tramon Williams 2012 29 GNB NFL 16 16
2 Sam Shields 2012 25 GNB NFL 10 8
3 Casey Hayward 2012 23 2-62 GNB NFL 16 7
4 Charles Woodson 2012 36 1-4 GNB NFL 7 7
5 Davon House 2012 23 4-131 GNB NFL 9 5
6 Jarrett Bush 2012 28 GNB NFL 16 1

[rbaloha1]

Why look at this, says right here that Jarrett Bush was a starter last season. Yep.

In one game.


Rk Player Year Age Draft Tm Lg G GS
1 Tramon Williams 2012 29 GNB NFL 16 16
2 Sam Shields 2012 25 GNB NFL 10 8
3 Casey Hayward 2012 23 2-62 GNB NFL 16 7
4 Charles Woodson 2012 36 1-4 GNB NFL 7 7
5 Davon House 2012 23 4-131 GNB NFL 9 5
6 Jarrett Bush 2012 28 GNB NFL 16 1

Thats right -- against the niners -- clearly beat out -- your boy is a scrub on defense.

[pbmax]

Thats right -- against the niners -- clearly beat out -- your boy is a scrub on defense.

Yes, against the Niners to open the season. When injuries and youth conspired to test, yet again, the depth of the Packers defense. He was a starter by default and was replaced the next week. He is a 5th or 6th CB and a special teams ace. He does that job about as well as any other 5th or 6th best CB in the League. Complaining about him as a starter is missing his entire role on the roster.

[rbaloha1]

Yes, against the Niners to open the season. When injuries and youth conspired to test, yet again, the depth of the Packers defense. He was a starter by default and was replaced the next week. He is a 5th or 6th CB and a special teams ace. He does that job about as well as any other 5th or 6th best CB in the League. Complaining about him as a starter is missing his entire role on the roster.

Watch what happens this season with your scrub -- cut cut

[Fritz]

I am of the opinion that the Packers' special teams will be aces this year, at least in terms of coverage and returns. And punting. Now, about that kicking game...

Crosby knows it's his last chance here. He needs to be hitting on all cylinders. He's got no rope left to hang on to, and he's already gotten enough from MM to hang himself with.

[run pMc]

I'm with Patler on Jarrett Bush -- the guy is supposedly a tempo setter in practice and a gonzo ST player. I always thought he was a liability at CB and hoped he could cut it at S. I think they drafted Hyde to push him, so he could be cut, they cut Tracy White. Bush will fight tooth and nail for that roster spot.

Neal has talent but if he's hurt I could see them either putting him on IR or just releasing him outright.

Crosby should get competition but he's a pretty good kicker considering he has to kick in bad conditions and McCarthy would send him out to try kicking 53 yarders all the time. I think he'll squeak by.

[MadScientist]

Yes, against the Niners to open the season. When injuries and youth conspired to test, yet again, the depth of the Packers defense. He was a starter by default and was replaced the next week. He is a 5th or 6th CB and a special teams ace. He does that job about as well as any other 5th or 6th best CB in the League. Complaining about him as a starter is missing his entire role on the roster.


Watch what happens this season with your scrub -- cut cut
He has been good on ST, but how long can he maintain production there. It's better to cut a player a year early than a year late. If they can get close to that level of production while getting younger, cheaper, and more upside at the CB position, then it is a no-brainer to cut him. Bush will have to significantly out perform Hyde on ST to overcome his age, cost and defensive liabilities and keep his spot.

[Cheesehead Craig]

My biggest Last-Chance Charlie is Dom Capers.

I'm also not a big fan of Capers. Sure he did great out of the gate, but that's his M.O. Then things seem to go downhill for him after that no matter where he goes. I'm not all doom and gloom like wist about the defense as I think there's some good talent there. I just don't think he adjusts well to what happens in a game. He comes in with a plan and if that doesn't work there never seems to be a Plan B. He's obviously a smart guy but too often there is a disconnect with his schemes and how they end up performing on the field. Fair or not, it falls on him as the DC with how they perform. Yes, I am aware that injuries have hurt the defensive side of the ball and the Packers overall record while he's been around. I just have never been that comfortable with him at DC. I wouldn't cry any tears if he got canned should things go poorly this season. Just my opinion on the guy.

[Guiness]

Yup, and considering Bulaga is exactly the opposite, missing time every year so far. Newhouse becomes a great security blanket; especially when you compare his experience to that of Sherrod, Datko and a couple rookies.

If he is healed and doesn't win the starting position at RT, I think Sherrod might be in more jeopardy than Newhouse.

Good point, and I think I agree. Much as I'm sure it would chagrin the coaching staff to walk away from Sherrod, I think if the two rookie tackles stick over him, he's more likely to go than Newhouse. At least, that's how I'd do it.

[Joemailman]

Barclay could be gone if he doesn't win the starting job at RT. He struggled at G last year, and I doubt he has the foot quickness to play LT.

The battle for the RT job in TC will be one to really watch.

[packrulz]

Hawk and Bishop.

[Fritz]

Good point, and I think I agree. Much as I'm sure it would chagrin the coaching staff to walk away from Sherrod, I think if the two rookie tackles stick over him, he's more likely to go than Newhouse. At least, that's how I'd do it.

Not a huge Capers fan myself, frankly. But that's cuz I prefer a 4-3.

[rbaloha1]

Not a huge Capers fan myself, frankly. But that's cuz I prefer a 4-3.

Capers is a white board guy.

[Guiness]

Barclay could be gone if he doesn't win the starting job at RT. He struggled at G last year, and I doubt he has the foot quickness to play LT.

The battle for the RT job in TC will be one to really watch.

He was a UDFA who worked his way onto the field to start at the end of the season, wasn't he? I don't know he's used up any chances at all! He still may get cut of course, but not because he burned through them all.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Not a huge Capers fan myself, frankly. But that's cuz I prefer a 4-3.

Ditto

[Fritz]

Capers is a white, bored guy.

Fixed

[Patler]

Barclay could be gone if he doesn't win the starting job at RT. He struggled at G last year, and I doubt he has the foot quickness to play LT.

The battle for the RT job in TC will be one to really watch.


He was a UDFA who worked his way onto the field to start at the end of the season, wasn't he? I don't know he's used up any chances at all! He still may get cut of course, but not because he burned through them all.

I tend to think one of the reasons they decided to move Bulaga was because of their comfort level with Barclay at RT. The last couple years they said moving Bulaga was not planned because he had pro-bowl potential (their comment, not mine) at RT and it didn't make sense to give that up.

[Fritz]

That may be so, but I recall that part of the reason Newhouse's play suffered was because the team had to shift its blocking help over to the right to help Barclay. Are you thinking the team sees enough potential that he can improve and hold up over there on his own?

[Zool]

That may be so, but I recall that part of the reason Newhouse's play suffered was because the team had to shift its blocking help over to the right to help Barclay. Are you thinking the team sees enough potential that he can improve and hold up over there on his own?

Shifting help to the right does not explain away Newhouse on the left in 2011 and being ineffective. I think the stat was 25 sacks over the last 2 seasons attributed to Newhouse.

[Fritz]

Oh, I've lost my hope for Newhouse. I am hoping that he'll stick as an experienced backup on both sides, with improvements at left and right tackle. I was more making a point about Barclay. Though he was a mere rook.

If he works as hard as we hope he does, he will come in to camp in prime shape and ready to compete like hell.