Good news I hadn't thought about - from rookie camp

[Patler]

Lacy was a full participant.

With the issues that came up at the combine and his pro day, I thought he might be a limited participant in camp. Doesn't seem to have been the case.

[George Cumby]

As I understand it, he had a *partial* fusion of the big toe NOT the full fusion which is the problematic one. He then went on to have a monster season. I am as optimistic as I can be given our strength and conditioning staff...........

[Patler]

As I understand it, he had a *partial* fusion of the big toe NOT the full fusion which is the problematic one. He then went on to have a monster season. I am as optimistic as I can be given our strength and conditioning staff...........

The toe surgery was a year ago, I think.
He had a gimpy knee and a torn pec that kept him out of the combine stuff.
Then, at his somewhat disappointing pro day workout, they said he tweaked a hamstring.

[George Cumby]

Oh yeah, hence the oft-injured rep. All kind of *meh* injuries. why risk really tearing your hammy if its sore. the pec? its a physical game.

I think we got a steal.

[swede]

Oh yeah, hence the oft-injured rep. All kind of *meh* injuries. why risk really tearing your hammy if its sore. the pec? its a physical game.

I think we got a steal.

Before the draft...

Other Team's GM: Hiya, Ted.

TT: Oh, hi.

Other Team's GM: That Lacy kid looks good, eh?

TT: We really like him. Too bad about the toe thing, though. Shame, really.

[run pMc]

Other good news:

- I know it's been covered in another thread, but glad to hear Datko is healed up and ready to compete this year. IIRC he was better at LT than RT last year, so he could backup Bulaga -- or if the OL shuffle experiment fails and they move them back -- press Newhouse for starting spot.

- B.J.Coleman showing improvement. I think he'll push Harrell and ultimately win the #2 job. Unless Harrell plays like a Hasselbeck in preseason, he will continue to look like JAG and scare fans about being one injury away from going 4-12.

[George Cumby]

Before the draft...

Other Team's GM: Hiya, Ted.

TT: Oh, hi.

Other Team's GM: That Lacy kid looks good, eh?

TT: We really like him. Too bad about the toe thing, though. Shame, really.

Nice.

[denverYooper]

As I understand it, he had a *partial* fusion of the big toe NOT the full fusion which is the problematic one. He then went on to have a monster season. I am as optimistic as I can be given our strength and conditioning staff...........

The Packers' training staff has had experience managing toe injuries (Woodson) so they might have felt a bit better than other teams. Really, though, I think this was a swing for the fences.

[hoosier]

The Packers' training staff has had experience managing toe injuries (Woodson) so they might have felt a bit better than other teams. Really, though, I think this was a swing for the fences.

If so it's a weird swing, because it was followed by two check swings!

[RashanGary]

The injury thing is a constant reminder of how lucky we are to have Eddie Lacy. I find it sort of cowardly the way Pitt and Den leaked the reasons they did not draft Lacy. If they were confident in their decisions, they would have been fine keeping their mouths shut, and respecting a players health confidentiality. Being they're not, they'll forego a little common courtesy to the end of hedging their bet.

They know they will look like baffoons if Lacy blows up and has a great NFL career, and the fact that one of the best teams in the league drafted him makes them scared it's already true.

Eddie Lacy is a fuckin beast. He's a natural runner. He's big. He's tough. He plays that way. And everyone knows it. The only thing people didn't know about Eddie Lacy was if his health would hold up. He's not the AP homerun threat, but his talent is one of the better bets in this whole draft.

[Patler]

The injury thing is a constant reminder of how lucky we are to have Eddie Lacy. I find it sort of cowardly the way Pitt and Den leaked the reasons they did not draft Lacy. If they were confident in their decisions, they would have been fine keeping their mouths shut, and respecting a players health confidentiality. Being they're not, they'll forego a little common courtesy to the end of hedging their bet.

Hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, I agree.

Quite different than TT who never makes an excuse for who he picks or who he passes over. When asked about specific players, his general comment is something like "We considered him. We think he is a very good player. We think the guy we got is a very good player too."

[Cleft Crusty]

Clay Matthews is available for hamstring advice should Lacy be interested.

[hoosier]

The injury thing is a constant reminder of how lucky we are to have Eddie Lacy. I find it sort of cowardly the way Pitt and Den leaked the reasons they did not draft Lacy. If they were confident in their decisions, they would have been fine keeping their mouths shut, and respecting a players health confidentiality. Being they're not, they'll forego a little common courtesy to the end of hedging their bet.

They know they will look like baffoons if Lacy blows up and has a great NFL career, and the fact that one of the best teams in the league drafted him makes them scared it's already true.

Eddie Lacy is a fuckin beast. He's a natural runner. He's big. He's tough. He plays that way. And everyone knows it. The only thing people didn't know about Eddie Lacy was if his health would hold up. He's not the AP homerun threat, but his talent is one of the better bets in this whole draft.

This may be true what you say about Pittsburgh and Denver hedging their bets, but don't forget that the Packers passed on drafting Lacy twice in the second round before they finally took him.

[Brandon494]

The injury thing is a constant reminder of how lucky we are to have Eddie Lacy. I find it sort of cowardly the way Pitt and Den leaked the reasons they did not draft Lacy. If they were confident in their decisions, they would have been fine keeping their mouths shut, and respecting a players health confidentiality. Being they're not, they'll forego a little common courtesy to the end of hedging their bet.

They know they will look like baffoons if Lacy blows up and has a great NFL career, and the fact that one of the best teams in the league drafted him makes them scared it's already true

I seriously doubt the Broncos and Steelers are "scared" because the Packers drafted Lacy. Both teams selected two damn good RBs that are more suited for their scheme, just because they tell it like it is and TT is tight lipped doesn't make their comments cowardly. I could see if they said something before the draft to lower the kids stock but both those organizations are first class and I see nothing wrong with their comments. Also I would have to think if Lacy injury really wasn't a concern that Ted is trading up to select Franklin later in the draft.

[George Cumby]

Others have noted it and I will reiterate it, he reminds me of Steven Jackson. Please. Please. Please!

[rbaloha1]

The injury thing is a constant reminder of how lucky we are to have Eddie Lacy. I find it sort of cowardly the way Pitt and Den leaked the reasons they did not draft Lacy. If they were confident in their decisions, they would have been fine keeping their mouths shut, and respecting a players health confidentiality. Being they're not, they'll forego a little common courtesy to the end of hedging their bet.

They know they will look like baffoons if Lacy blows up and has a great NFL career, and the fact that one of the best teams in the league drafted him makes them scared it's already true.

Eddie Lacy is a fuckin beast. He's a natural runner. He's big. He's tough. He plays that way. And everyone knows it. The only thing people didn't know about Eddie Lacy was if his health would hold up. He's not the AP homerun threat, but his talent is one of the better bets in this whole draft.

Completely agree. My only issue is the dancing which is easily correctable.

Other teams mention this stuff because the fan base wonders why this type of first round talent from a national championship team is passed on.

Please note from the podcast, McGinn is unthrilled by the pick due to the Packer paranoia about injuries.

[Patler]

Please note from the podcast, McGinn is unthrilled by the pick due to the Packer paranoia about injuries.

The Packers paranoia about injuries, or Mr. McGinn's?

[woodbuck27]

Other good news:

- I know it's been covered in another thread, but glad to hear Datko is healed up and ready to compete this year. IIRC he was better at LT than RT last year, so he could backup Bulaga -- or if the OL shuffle experiment fails and they move them back -- press Newhouse for starting spot.

- B.J.Coleman showing improvement. I think he'll push Harrell and ultimately win the #2 job. Unless Harrell plays like a Hasselbeck in preseason, he will continue to look like JAG and scare fans about being one injury away from going 4-12.

The Media: OK Mike who are you starting at QB with Aaron down at lease 2-3 weeks?

MM: Well it's going to be H-h-h-ha-ha-har-harr- harrreuhaa - ull-ull- Harruuullll. Graham.

[woodbuck27]

Clay Matthews is available for hamstring advice should Lacy be interested.

and Jordy.

[rbaloha1]

The Packers paranoia about injuries, or Mr. McGinn's?

PACKERS

[Patler]

PACKERS

I think its McGinn's paranoia. The Packers didn't draft as if they have paranoia about injuries.

[rbaloha1]

I think its McGinn's paranoia. The Packers didn't draft as if they have paranoia about injuries.

Which other drafted players have an injury history like Lacy?

[rbaloha1]

I think its McGinn's paranoia. The Packers didn't draft as if they have paranoia about injuries.

BTW did you listen to the podcast before you make a definitive statement?

[Patler]

BTW did you listen to the podcast before you make a definitive statement?

The podcast didn't change my mind about who the Packers drafted, their injury histories, etc.

[Patler]

BTW did you listen to the podcast before you make a definitive statement?

By the way, what definitive statement? I wrote, "I think ......."
Just an opinion piece.

[rbaloha1]

The podcast didn't change my mind about who the Packers drafted, their injury histories, etc.

We are only talking about Lacy -- please stop being a politician.

[pbmax]

Don't they average one injury history guy per year?

2012 - Mike Daniels
2011 - ???
2010 - Mike Neal
2009 - Jamon Meredith
2008 - ???
2007 - Justin Harrell
2006 - either Blackmon or Rodgers got hurt in college I recall

[Patler]

We are only talking about Lacy -- please stop being a politician.

Lacy is enough, but my opinion is also based on their drafting of Jones.
First two picks, both with injury histories. That's some demonstration of organizational paranoia on injuries going into the draft.

[pbmax]

Shouldn't Bobbo's understanding of the Packers paranoia about injuries make him MORE thrilled Lacy since he must be healthy?

Or is Bob still claiming the Packer's blew the trade downs and the pick and ended up with someone they actually did not want?

[Patler]

Don't they average one injury history guy per year?

2012 - Mike Daniels
2011 - ???
2010 - Mike Neal
2009 - Jamon Meredith
2008 - ???
2007 - Justin Harrell
2006 - either Blackmon or Rodgers got hurt in college I recall

Datko last year, Starks in 2010,

[rbaloha1]

Lacy is enough, but my opinion is also based on their drafting of Jones.
First two picks, both with injury histories. That's some demonstration of organizational paranoia on injuries going into the draft.

If I recall correctly Jones does not nearly have the injury history of Lacy.

On the other hand, other teams passed on Lacy due to injury history and other lesser issues.

The point is McGinn is mocking the organization for drafting someone with a big injury history like Lacy when that is a big concern.

Bottom Line: The injury history is too much to pass up and worthy of a second round pick. Once Lacy starts tearing it up, McGinn shall be reminded.

[rbaloha1]

Shouldn't Bobbo's understanding of the Packers paranoia about injuries make him MORE thrilled Lacy since he must be healthy?

Or is Bob still claiming the Packer's blew the trade downs and the pick and ended up with someone they actually did not want?

Listen to the podcast before you name call -- it is obvious you did not and your posts just make a nonsensical pretzel.

[Patler]

Before the draft, one of the writers, don't remember if it was McGinn, said Jones would be a perfect fit for Green Bay, but was red flagged because of their conviction not to draft injury risks, and Jones is walking around with a pin in hist foot.

[rbaloha1]

Before the draft, one of the writers, don't remember if it was McGinn, said Jones would be a perfect fit for Green Bay, but was red flagged because of their conviction not to draft injury risks, and Jones is walking around with a pin in hist foot.

It was Dunne. Believe McGinn wanted Sylvester Williams.

[pbmax]

Listen to the podcast before you name call -- it is obvious you did not and your posts just make a nonsensical pretzel.


It was Dunne. Believe McGinn wanted Sylvester Williams.

I understand your confusion because Dunne took the red flagged by Packers Datone Jones in the first round for his mock.

[Fritz]

Yes, they are absolutely paranoid about injuries. That's why they spent a high draft pick on a guy who had toe surgery and was nicked up this spring, and whose injury history appeared to drop the guy's stock a bit.

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

[rbaloha1]

Yes, they are absolutely paranoid about injuries. That's why they spent a high draft pick on a guy who had toe surgery and was nicked up this spring, and whose injury history appeared to drop the guy's stock a bit.

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

McGinn calls out Packer hypocrisy which fills up this board.

Which high round picks are injury free?

[3irty1]

Happy belated Mother's Day Mrs. McGinn.

[rbaloha1]

Happy belated Mother's Day Mrs. McGinn.

Happy belated Mother's Day Mrs. JackAss.

[run pMc]

Or is Bob still claiming the Packer's blew the trade downs and the pick and ended up with someone they actually did not want?

This was the impression McGinn gave me on the podcast -- that Lacy was there when they traded down and he was still there when the later pick was on the clock, so they were faced with taking a player with a injury history. At 61, most people would agree Lacy is a great value pick, and it's obvious based on PIT and DEN's statements that his injury history scared a lot of teams and caused him to fall. Injuries or no, it's no stretch to think he was the BPA and they took him. Nobody AFAIK put a gun to TT's head and made him pick Lacy. (Well, maybe McCarthy did, but we'll never know.) He could have picked someone else (I was hoping for a WR, personally).

Regardless of what TT did at 61, McGinn would have had a bone to pick and a story to sell:

- either passing on Lacy altogether ("how could he pass him up with the running game in shambles?")
OR
- bucking the "no injury" trend and taking what some consider to be a franchise-level back.

No matter what, he's fanning flames and trying to drive clicks, as he's paid to.
I think it's kind of pointless to argue until we see Lacy play. If he's an upgrade over Starks/Green he's a good pick and the rest doesn't matter much.

IIRC Dunne picked Jones & McGinn picked Sylvester Williams in their mocks.

The vast majority of these guys played with some kind of injury, many of them missing time. It's football. The injury thing is important but in this case it's getting overblown.

Wait -- why are we talking about McGinn again? Aren't there other journalists we can complain about?

[run pMc]

Happy belated Mother's Day Mrs. JackAss.

Dude, relax. Stuff like that is uncalled for and will get you banned.
Go outside and enjoy the weather or something for a while.

[rbaloha1]

Dude, relax. Stuff like that is uncalled for and will get you banned.
Go outside and enjoy the weather or something for a while.

Dude -- you go chill braddah.

[rbaloha1]

This was the impression McGinn gave me on the podcast -- that Lacy was there when they traded down and he was still there when the later pick was on the clock, so they were faced with taking a player with a injury history. At 61, most people would agree Lacy is a great value pick, and it's obvious based on PIT and DEN's statements that his injury history scared a lot of teams and caused him to fall. Injuries or no, it's no stretch to think he was the BPA and they took him. Nobody AFAIK put a gun to TT's head and made him pick Lacy. (Well, maybe McCarthy did, but we'll never know.) He could have picked someone else (I was hoping for a WR, personally).

Regardless of what TT did at 61, McGinn would have had a bone to pick and a story to sell:

- either passing on Lacy altogether ("how could he pass him up with the running game in shambles?")
OR
- bucking the "no injury" trend and taking what some consider to be a franchise-level back.

No matter what, he's fanning flames and trying to drive clicks, as he's paid to.
I think it's kind of pointless to argue until we see Lacy play. If he's an upgrade over Starks/Green he's a good pick and the rest doesn't matter much.

IIRC Dunne picked Jones & McGinn picked Sylvester Williams in their mocks.

The vast majority of these guys played with some kind of injury, many of them missing time. It's football. The injury thing is important but in this case it's getting overblown.

Wait -- why are we talking about McGinn again? Aren't there other journalists we can complain about?

Good post -- at least you listened. While I do not agree with your assessments at least you listened.

There are other journalists to complain about -- the ones that support McGinn's propaganda.

[pbmax]

McGinn calls out Packer hypocrisy which fills up this board.

The instead of simply calling out hypocrisy, which is a fine thing but easy to do, he should also find a way to square the Prime Directive that was reportedly executed at all levels of the building except the GM wing. Because his two stories don't match unless he is trying to report by inference that Thompson has lost his mind. Or has become Colonel Kurtz.

Because ol' Bob isn't the only person to notice the injury history of the top two picks.

A vastly better story would have been how the Packers are trying to eliminate inures while allowing that some are inevitable and if no risks are ever taken, the talent on the team will decline.

[pbmax]

The podcast was very similar to the draft day roundup McGinn wrote about how it seemed the Packers were trying to avoid picking Lacy but having no luck and eventually were almost forced to take him.

While its an entertaining narrative, it makes no sense for a man who is true to his board UNLESS there were no other 2nd round talents in the draft. In which case, if no more trade downs were attractive, its the ideal time to take a risk.

[Fritz]

McGinn calls out Packer hypocrisy which fills up this board.

Which high round picks are injury free?

If the Packers are paranoid about injury, why would they take a guy with an injury history in the second round? That makes no sense, thus I suspect McGinn got some bad info when he claimed the Packers were crazy paranoid about taking injured guys.

If you're suggesting no high round pick is injury-free, then the lacy pick still makes no sense, given injury concerns dropped him down out of the first and most of the second rounds - down past all those other high round picks you seem to be suggesting also have an injury history.

[smuggler]

Oh. Turns out McGinn is wrong about some things after all.

http://bloggingthebeast.com/2013/05/10/how-much-does-your-teams-front-7-weigh/

[3irty1]

McGinn never said the front 7 was the 27th lightest, he said the whole roster was. He's wrong about plenty of stuff without putting words in his mouth. Or ink on his column or whatever.

[denverYooper]

McGinn should probably just stay away from math and stick to his inside sources.

[smuggler]

McGinn imagined that we needed to beef up the defense to compete with 'big, physical' teams like the 49ers. He claimed that there was a change in some organizational principle toward making personnel decisions that focused on bigger players.

If you'll notice, the 49er defense features one of the lighter front sevens in the league. It's almost as if ability to play football and weight aren't specifically correlated within the range we're scrutinizing.

Meanwhile, if you look at the Packer front seven, it's already quite beefy relative to most teams in the league. Then you look at the draft and you notice we focused on athleticism and length instead of sheer bulk.

Add it all up, and you have a reporter - not an analyst, a reporter - who happened to be wrong. Whatever he based his claim on - be it his own imagination or an 'insider' source - his theory ended up being nothing more than conjecture. It had the added benefit of getting the ADHD squawkers to turn their heads and +1 his pageviews.

[pbmax]

To be fair, he did say they need to beef up the lines on both sides of the ball.

To be accurate, I think the Packer O line is probably behind the D front seven in terms of weight rank in the League. You could argue that the Packers needed more prototypical length at DE, however, rather than Raji or Pickett at DE.

To be critical, the data McGinn used was (I believe someone emailed him about this) from a roster list at the beginning of the season and covered the entire roster, not simply the lines or the D front seven.

To be demanding, someone should write WHY the Packers beef in the front seven doesn't produce better results in run D. That would be an article worthy of the fans.

To be considerate, I think Ty Dunne has one angle on this with his recent stories on athletic players in the recent draft.

To be cynical, I don't expect to see an article about adherence to role in the scheme to be featured in JSO until they play the Vikings or another dominant runner. Even though that was demonstrably the case for the Vikings playoff game, though Webb at QB complicated the story.

[pbmax]

McGinn imagined that we needed to beef up the defense to compete with 'big, physical' teams like the 49ers. He claimed that there was a change in some organizational principle toward making personnel decisions that focused on bigger players.

If you'll notice, the 49er defense features one of the lighter front sevens in the league. It's almost as if ability to play football and weight aren't specifically correlated within the range we're scrutinizing.

The organizational directive part of the article was poorly reported. If there was such an animal, McGinn doesn't seem to have gotten the essence.

[pbmax]

Pete Carroll might be a goof of a head coach in my eyes, but he can coach a defense.

So this could bear watching:

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 11h
#Packers tryout signee Brandon Smith spent last year transitioning from WR to CB on advice of Seattle's Pete Carroll. http://t.co/iKpQcJLm22

[bobblehead]

To be critical, the data McGinn used was (I believe someone emailed him about this) from a roster list at the beginning of the season and covered the entire roster, not simply the lines or the D front seven.

.

Biggest flaw in using the entire roster (remember I said when using stats, the parameters make the decision more than the numbers) is that we have one of the youngest rosters in the league. Younger guys tend to be a bit skinnier, still growing into their frame.

As I mentioned (or thought, don't remember if I posted it) the packers DLine is actually pretty big and physical. They were not shoved around by the 49ers. They played a good game, but were not properly prepared to contain Kapernick. Physically they are easily equal to SF.

[rbaloha1]

McGinn should probably just stay away from math and stick to his inside sources.

Stop reading McGinn.

[3irty1]

I wouldn't say they played a good game, at least not most of them. If you go back and watch though Daniels does standout as a brightspot. That little bastard is a great player IMO.

[rbaloha1]

Biggest flaw in using the entire roster (remember I said when using stats, the parameters make the decision more than the numbers) is that we have one of the youngest rosters in the league. Younger guys tend to be a bit skinnier, still growing into their frame.

As I mentioned (or thought, don't remember if I posted it) the packers DLine is actually pretty big and physical. They were not shoved around by the 49ers. They played a good game, but were not properly prepared to contain Kapernick. Physically they are easily equal to SF.

Not calling you out but after 2 games it is clearly evident the niners o-line owns the packer d-front. Weight wise the Packer pigs are okay. CK had success mainly due to blocking o-linemen overpowering the front to create gaps and running lanes. Gore also ran for 100+ yards.

SF CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Kaepernick 16 181 11.3 2 56
Gore 23 119 5.2 1 26

Kaepernick's 99 option rushing yards are the most by any QB in a game during the past three seasons, and his 75 scramble yards are a personal career high. --Kaepernick rushed for 102 yards and a touchdown out of the pistol set, the most by a QB in the past three seasons. His 12.8 yards per rush was the highest by any rusher out of the pistol in the past five seasons (min. 5 attempts). espn

Over 100 CK yards came out of formation -- that is over 200 yards rushing from formations and not scrambling. Packer pigs got slaughtered.

[rbaloha1]

For good reason, because Kaepernick killed the Packers with the read option. Of his 181 yards rushing in the playoff game, 99 came on seven read-option carries, including a 56-yarder for a touchdown. And that’s not counting the option plays when the read was to hand off rather than run the keeper.
Pete Dougherty

When a qb can dictate like CK your o-line is dominating the front seven.

[3irty1]

Because he ran around them? It takes 11 guys working together to give up the kind of long runs that made up the bulk of that yardage.

[rbaloha1]

Because he ran around them? It takes 11 guys working together to give up the kind of long runs that made up the bulk of that yardage.

Yes it does. Plus you have to win upfront physical matches which the Packer pigs failed to do enough of the time.

It is no different if a qb stands in the pocket with five seconds plus to throw -- what is the o-line doing to the d-line?

[3irty1]

I'm saying I don't think 99 yards in QB option runs is a good indicator that your DL is trash. Those guys could win all their one on ones and its not going to stop CK from running around them and frolicking through the secondary. The secondary is responsible for over half of that yardage--they've earned just as much outrage as anybody in the front 7 not named Walden.

[rbaloha1]

I'm saying I don't think 99 yards in QB option runs is a good indicator that your DL is trash. Those guys could win all their one on ones and its not going to stop CK from running around them and frolicking through the secondary. The secondary is responsible for over half of that yardage--they've earned just as much outrage as anybody in the front 7 not named Walden.

Again when the qb can dictate what he wants to do at the line of scrimmage the front is getting dominated.

Walden is not solely to blame -- Raji, Pickett and Matthews failed to win enough physical battles to disrupt the qb and running game. You forgot to mention Gore. Plus CK had time to throw.

Bad performance which the packers addressed in the draft: http://www.packersnews.com/article/2...g-quarterbacks

[3irty1]

TIL that when Rodgers imposes his will on defenses it means our offensive line is dominating.

[rbaloha1]

TIL that when Rodgers imposes his will on defenses it means our offensive line is dominating.

If A-rod is able to go thru his entire progressions then yes. Getting sacked and hit -- no.

[pbmax]

As I mentioned (or thought, don't remember if I posted it) the packers DLine is actually pretty big and physical. They were not shoved around by the 49ers. They played a good game, but were not properly prepared to contain Kapernick. Physically they are easily equal to SF.

Raji got blasted a couple of times by the double team on the read option (there could have been other bad plays, these were the obvious ones). That would hurt if they gave the ball to Gore, but despite what rb seems to believe, CK is NOT reading Raji and he is not the player being attacked. CK is reading Walden on these plays. The double team is designed to do precisely what it did to Raji; seal him inside. Personally, I think Raji got busted trying to penetrate the G-C gap and was wide open for the Guard to knock him off target.

I think Jones was drafted to help the Packers play Raji and Pickett less at DE and more inside. I could be dead wrong, but I would not be surprised to see less Pickett more than we see less Wilson. Raji gets more rest as well.

I suspect that Capers adjustments to CK include a controlled pass rush like they came out to use in the 2nd half to stop scrambling AND alternate adjustments to read option plays. Once the OLBs stopped penetrating and were worried about the run, CK and Gore had time to read them and make good decisions. I will need to rewatch the game to see if read option was a reaction to Packer adjustments OR was just a great play cal versus that Defense. I tend to think the Defense's ability to get out of shape makes either a distinct possibility.

[pbmax]

:repost:

from http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?25443-It-is-official-Bulaga-and-Sitton-are-on-the-left-side&p=724389&viewfull=1#post724389


Superbowl against a supposedly stout Raven D

Gore 19 for 110 and a 5.8 avg
Kapernick 7 for 62 for an 8.9 avg
James 3 for 10 for a 3.3 avg

As a team 29 carries for 182 and a 6.3 average.

Apparently the 49ers kicked the living hell out of a reportedly strong and stout Raven D. I asked this same question multiple times right after the SB but never got an answer.

How will you explain away what is supposedly a stout D that the Packers should be emulating with a D coordinator who is good?

BTW Kapernick was also 16/28 for 282 through the air.

[rbaloha1]

:repost:

from http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?25443-It-is-official-Bulaga-and-Sitton-are-on-the-left-side&p=724389&viewfull=1#post724389

Who won the game?

[pbmax]

Who won the game?

Logical Thinking was clearly the victor over Wishing It Were True and Argument By Authority

[smuggler]

Should have been SF.

[rbaloha1]

Logical Thinking was clearly the victor over Wishing It Were True and Argument By Authority

What else is there to say -- for stat freaks:

Third Down efficiency niners vs. packers 8/13
Fourth Down efficiency niners vs packers 0/0

third down efficiency niners vs ravens 2/9
Fourth Down efficiency niners vs ravens 0/1


Niners success rate vs. packers = 61.5%
Niners success rate vs ravens = 20%

[rbaloha1]

:smile:
Should have been SF.

In your feeble mind it was.

[rbaloha1]

Logical Thinking was clearly the victor over Wishing It Were True and Argument By Authority

Please do not use logic anywhere in your stuff -- thank you.:-)

[run pMc]

Ahem.
"Thread: Good news I hadn't thought about - from rookie camp"

[3irty1]

On that 56 yard monster you can watch CK read Jones and the FB read Walden to decide whether to block Walden or Jones. Walden was in good position so the FB chipped him then had nobody else to block because Jones bit on the fake. Meanwhile Walden spins around looking for the ball as CK runs past him. Burnett and Woodson also bit on the fake and are out of position. Tramon immediately puts his defender between him and the ball then gets erased by a humiliating 4 second block. The only other guy who had a prayer of flowing to the ball was Hawk who was all over the handoff and ran in to fill a gap that no longer existed by the time he got there because Raji was shoved into it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000127541/All-22-Colin-Kaepernick-56-yard-TD-run

For this play to work, Walden had to wear his signature cement shoes and lose track of the ball. For this play to work as well as it did, Jones, Woodson, and Burnett had to bite on the fake and Tramon had to play like a giant tampon.

[pbmax]

What else is there to say -- for stat freaks:

Third Down efficiency niners vs. packers 8/13
Fourth Down efficiency niners vs packers 0/0

third down efficiency niners vs ravens 2/9
Fourth Down efficiency niners vs ravens 0/1


Niners success rate vs. packers = 61.5%
Niners success rate vs ravens = 20%

Ah. Success rate. Better choice for analysis. But San Fran got 29 first downs versus Pack, 23 versus Ravens. Close enough that pace of game comes into play as does number of big plays. Not to mention 2 turnovers which the Defensive Line did not commit. Niners had 12 possessions compared to Packers 9. You further weaken the data by limiting it to 3rd down conversions. But still, this is better than "Look the Defense can't stop them and they are running all over the place. Our run Defense is terrible and its all CJ Wilson and Brad Jones' fault."

Of the Niners 8 conversions, 4 were runs, 3 were passes and 1 was a penalty. 1 of the runs was classified as a scramble, meaning it was first an attempted pass. I bet another run was a scramble, but I don't have the video so we will accept the GameBook version.

So 3rd down conversions need to get better to approach Raven D level. 1 QB scramble, 3 runs, 3 pass, 1 penalty. Why focus on run D more than pass? And why Datone Jones and not a pure, big DT like Williams?

And how does third down conversion rate fall on the shoulders of the line rather than entire defense? There were two scoring plays off third down as well. 1 was a pass, 1 was a run. Seems like balanced failure as a unit.

[3irty1]

I remember two 3rd down scrambles in the same drive.

[Zool]

On that 56 yard monster you can watch CK read Jones and the FB read Walden to decide whether to block Walden or Jones. Walden was in good position so the FB chipped him then had nobody else to block because Jones bit on the fake. Meanwhile Walden spins around looking for the ball as CK runs past him. Burnett and Woodson also bit on the fake and are out of position. Tramon immediately puts his defender between him and the ball then gets erased by a humiliating 4 second block. The only other guy who had a prayer of flowing to the ball was Hawk who was all over the handoff and ran in to fill a gap that no longer existed by the time he got there because Raji was shoved into it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000127541/All-22-Colin-Kaepernick-56-yard-TD-run

For this play to work, Walden had to wear his signature cement shoes and lose track of the ball. For this play to work as well as it did, Jones, Woodson, and Burnett had to bite on the fake and Tramon had to play like a giant tampon.

Walden, just...geeze. That was a really poorly played game by the entire D. Rarely do I shut a game off early, but I missed the entire 4th quarter of this one. Maybe the weather was too warm.

[rbaloha1]

Ah. Success rate. Better choice for analysis. But San Fran got 29 first downs versus Pack, 23 versus Ravens. Close enough that pace of game comes into play as does number of big plays. Not to mention 2 turnovers which the Defensive Line did not commit. Niners had 12 possessions compared to Packers 9. You further weaken the data by limiting it to 3rd down conversions. But still, this is better than "Look the Defense can't stop them and they are running all over the place. Our run Defense is terrible and its all CJ Wilson and Brad Jones' fault."

Of the Niners 8 conversions, 4 were runs, 3 were passes and 1 was a penalty. 1 of the runs was classified as a scramble, meaning it was first an attempted pass. I bet another run was a scramble, but I don't have the video so we will accept the GameBook version.

So 3rd down conversions need to get better to approach Raven D level. 1 QB scramble, 3 runs, 3 pass, 1 penalty. Why focus on run D more than pass? And why Datone Jones and not a pure, big DT like Williams?

And how does third down conversion rate fall on the shoulders of the line rather than entire defense? There were two scoring plays off third down as well. 1 was a pass, 1 was a run. Seems like a balanced failure as a unit.

A bunch of words does not mean a thing.

Bottom Line: The better front seven made stops at critical times :lol:by a wide margin over a subpar front. Please no more avalanche of words -- promise to send you pineapples.:lol:

[pbmax]

A bunch of words does not mean a thing.

Bottom Line: The better front seven made stops at critical times :lol:by a wide margin over a subpar front. Please no more avalanche of words -- promise to send you pineapples.:lol:

Pineapples would be great.

But you still have not made your case that the front seven needs to be replaced with certain body types to make those stops. How about a non-Walden OLB? Or a more experienced Jones (or Bishop)?

Nor have you even made your case that is was the front seven. How about a CB who could regularly make tackles to replace Tramon?

[rbaloha1]

Pineapples would be great.

But you still have not made your case that the front seven needs to be replaced with certain body types to make those stops. How about a non-Walden OLB? Or a more experienced Jones (or Bishop)?

Nor have you even made your case that is was the front seven. How about a CB who could regularly make tackles to replace Tramon?

http://www.packersnews.com/article/2...g-quarterbacks

BTW there is nothing compelling you write that the front seven is not too blame for 579.

On record to replace and cut Tramon Williams. Referenced TW backing down against AP which FOX chronicled.

[rbaloha1]

Pineapples would be great.

But you still have not made your case that the front seven needs to be replaced with certain body types to make those stops. How about a non-Walden OLB? Or a more experienced Jones (or Bishop)?

Nor have you even made your case that is was the front seven. How about a CB who could regularly make tackles to replace Tramon?

Already mentioned Bishop, perry, DJ and replacing Hawk may help against read option and pistol stuff. Boyd and jolly as part of the rotation may also help.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packersnews.com/interactive/article/20130514/pkr01/130514022

Rob Demovsky's chat: Too early to tell about many players

May 15, 2013 ... 3:19 PM, May. 15, 2013

Rookie camp is over and organized team activities are coming up, so Press-Gazette Media reporter Rob Demovsky hosted 'a live Green Bay Packers chat' at 1 p.m. today >>> CDT Wednesday, May 15, 2013.

Also you may ... read replays of past chats on their chat page.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/football/#ixzz2TPBiTj6y


PACKERS !

[pbmax]

http://www.packersnews.com/article/2...g-quarterbacks

BTW there is nothing compelling you write that the front seven is not too blame for 579.

On record to replace and cut Tramon Williams. Referenced TW backing down against AP which FOX chronicled.

The front seven could use an upgrade. At several positions. But its not as simple as bigger/tougher/stronger players. Its several things at once including:

1. Players to upgrade or replace like Walden, at least one ILB. Jones needs to improve play recognition and false/hesitant steps. Bishop and Hawk together helped to produce some terrible run D and bad pass D on TEs in 2010 and 2011.

2. Pickett and Raji need to stop playing DE. Here I agree completely with wist. Too many snaps, too far out of position. If its a crunch, Pickett is steadier outside the nose than Raji.

3. Diligence in scheme. No more freelancing in the backend OR upfront with the big fellas. See Vikings playoff game for upfront gap discipline. See post Woodson 2012 pass D for no freelance DBs.

4. Decision time for Raji. He haas to play nose and 3 tech in this defense. But can he hold against double teams and be disciplined enough to 2 gap? He has had mixed results since 2010.

[bobblehead]

On that 56 yard monster you can watch CK read Jones and the FB read Walden to decide whether to block Walden or Jones. Walden was in good position so the FB chipped him then had nobody else to block because Jones bit on the fake. Meanwhile Walden spins around looking for the ball as CK runs past him. Burnett and Woodson also bit on the fake and are out of position. Tramon immediately puts his defender between him and the ball then gets erased by a humiliating 4 second block. The only other guy who had a prayer of flowing to the ball was Hawk who was all over the handoff and ran in to fill a gap that no longer existed by the time he got there because Raji was shoved into it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000127541/All-22-Colin-Kaepernick-56-yard-TD-run

For this play to work, Walden had to wear his signature cement shoes and lose track of the ball. For this play to work as well as it did, Jones, Woodson, and Burnett had to bite on the fake and Tramon had to play like a giant tampon.

I can't be positive, but I would bet that Jones responsibility on that play was to step up and meet Gore. If not, I can't imagine what kind of looping swooping D we run.

[bobblehead]

Pineapples would be great.

But you still have not made your case that the front seven needs to be replaced with certain body types to make those stops. How about a non-Walden OLB? Or a more experienced Jones (or Bishop)?

Nor have you even made your case that is was the front seven. How about a CB who could regularly make tackles to replace Tramon?

pb, you are feeding the animals. Gore had a ton of 2,3,4 yard runs. Officials picked up flags on blatant facemasks. Mainly Kapernick beat the D with his legs and like 2 great passes. All the talk of physicality and BS like that is exactly that. You, me, and most of the board knows what happened in that game cuz we watched it. A select few are looking at stat lines and telling you what the black and white numbers mean. Don't bother, When the pack smashes SF in the mouth on day one trolls will go back under the bridge.

[bobblehead]

http://www.packersnews.com/interactive/article/20130514/pkr01/130514022

Rob Demovsky's chat: Too early to tell about many players

May 15, 2013 ... 3:19 PM, May. 15, 2013

Rookie camp is over and organized team activities are coming up, so Press-Gazette Media reporter Rob Demovsky hosted 'a live Green Bay Packers chat' at 1 p.m. today >>> CDT Wednesday, May 15, 2013.

Also you may ... read replays of past chats on their chat page.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/football/#ixzz2TPBiTj6y


PACKERS !

Rob Demovsky:
Ralphy: That's one I struggle with a little bit. I'm not sure how you necessarily quantify it. If it's being able to run the ball when you have to -- like third-and-short -- then you'd say they probably are soft. If it's being able to stop a guy like Adrian Peterson, then yeah, they probably are. I wonder, though, how much, especially defensively, is needing speed up the middle and on the edges. Think about how Kaepernick beat them. He did it with speed, not power

[rbaloha1]

pb, you are feeding the animals. Gore had a ton of 2,3,4 yard runs. Officials picked up flags on blatant facemasks. Mainly Kapernick beat the D with his legs and like 2 great passes. All the talk of physicality and BS like that is exactly that. You, me, and most of the board knows what happened in that game cuz we watched it. A select few are looking at stat lines and telling you what the black and white numbers mean. Don't bother, When the pack smashes SF in the mouth on day one trolls will go back under the bridge.

Dude, others bring up stats to support their cause like you.

You are wrong about the majority -- its only the butt wipers.

You watching the game is like denying a holocaust.

[rbaloha1]

Rob Demovsky:
Ralphy: That's one I struggle with a little bit. I'm not sure how you necessarily quantify it. If it's being able to run the ball when you have to -- like third-and-short -- then you'd say they probably are soft. If it's being able to stop a guy like Adrian Peterson, then yeah, they probably are. I wonder, though, how much, especially defensively, is needing speed up the middle and on the edges. Think about how Kaepernick beat them. He did it with speed, not power

What does this prove -- other sportswriters conclude differently.

Keep reaching for the stars.

[rbaloha1]

pb, you are feeding the animals. Gore had a ton of 2,3,4 yard runs. Officials picked up flags on blatant facemasks. Mainly Kapernick beat the D with his legs and like 2 great passes. All the talk of physicality and BS like that is exactly that. You, me, and most of the board knows what happened in that game cuz we watched it. A select few are looking at stat lines and telling you what the black and white numbers mean. Don't bother, When the pack smashes SF in the mouth on day one trolls will go back under the bridge.

Yea -- I am the troll and posters put on the ignore feature. I see your name hypocrite.

There are currently 178 users browsing this forum. (18 members & 160 guests)
rbaloha1, sjhein, Bretsky, pbmax, woodbuck27, Joemailman, denverYooper, mission, gbpackfan, Der Lehrer, FirstSgt, Razer, Patler, HarveyWallbangers, red, bobblehead, hoosier, pittstang5

[George Cumby]

On that 56 yard monster you can watch CK read Jones and the FB read Walden to decide whether to block Walden or Jones. Walden was in good position so the FB chipped him then had nobody else to block because Jones bit on the fake. Meanwhile Walden spins around looking for the ball as CK runs past him. Burnett and Woodson also bit on the fake and are out of position. Tramon immediately puts his defender between him and the ball then gets erased by a humiliating 4 second block. The only other guy who had a prayer of flowing to the ball was Hawk who was all over the handoff and ran in to fill a gap that no longer existed by the time he got there because Raji was shoved into it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000127541/All-22-Colin-Kaepernick-56-yard-TD-run

For this play to work, Walden had to wear his signature cement shoes and lose track of the ball. For this play to work as well as it did, Jones, Woodson, and Burnett had to bite on the fake and Tramon had to play like a giant tampon.

Watching walden get spun around was so striking that the image is actually seared into my memory. Geez but that guy played dumb as a post.

[Fritz]

I think PB has really nailed it with his point about playing disciplined defense. That's got to be about the hardest thing in the world to do, when you've been coached as a defensive player all your life to be aggressive, but if the players play within the scheme, and if there is improved play from two linebacking spots, I think this team can corral the SF offense.

But can MM and Capers convince these players to stay within the scheme? Raji is thinking contract, and he'll make more if his stat line contains bigger numbers of tackles and sacks.

[Pugger]

Dude, others bring up stats to support their cause like you.

You are wrong about the majority -- its only the butt wipers.

You watching the game is like denying a holocaust.

Why can't you disagree without being disagreeable?

[rbaloha1]

Why can't you disagree without being disagreeable?

Good point -- please ask others to do the same:huh:

[Cleft Crusty]

4. Decision time for Raji. He haas to play nose and 3 tech in this defense. But can he hold against double teams and be disciplined enough to 2 gap? He has had mixed results since 2010.

Are we watching different football, Mr. Max? I just don't see two-gapping, run stuffing, holding the point anchor being Raji's strength at all. He's disruptive with an inside rush, and is difficult to single up, but it seems that when double teamed in the run game, he gets obliterated. You maybe want him to two gap over the center? Still, I don't have any idea who else the Packers see as an anchor on the D-line. You would think Pickett, but how long will he last? At his age, Pickett will get worn out simply going on and off the field to accommodate different packages.

[rbaloha1]

Are we watching different football, Mr. Max? I just don't see two-gapping, run stuffing, holding the point anchor being Raji's strength at all. He's disruptive with an inside rush, and is difficult to single up, but it seems that when double teamed in the run game, he gets obliterated. You maybe want him to two gap over the center? Still, I don't have any idea who else the Packers see as an anchor on the D-line. You would think Pickett, but how long will he last? At his age, Pickett will get worn out simply going on and off the field to accommodate different packages.

Standing ovation! :rock:Yup the aging Pickett is the best Packer d-lineman -- not the banana slug Raji

[pbmax]

Are we watching different football, Mr. Max? I just don't see two-gapping, run stuffing, holding the point anchor being Raji's strength at all. He's disruptive with an inside rush, and is difficult to single up, but it seems that when double teamed in the run game, he gets obliterated. You maybe want him to two gap over the center? Still, I don't have any idea who else the Packers see as an anchor on the D-line. You would think Pickett, but how long will he last? At his age, Pickett will get worn out simply going on and off the field to accommodate different packages.

I don't either. wist doesn't. Neither does rb. But the Packers seem to believe it. Because that top pick was a DE not a DT. And Boyd might surprise but odds are against him moving Raji outside permanently.

Pickett will be renewed on the Donald Driver plan where he gets a new two year deal every once in a while until he burns out. My fear is that there were signs of this last year. But if he plays less DE in Base Oakie, maybe he recovers.

So either this is another example of Smooth Operator Teddy Draftday simply refusing to panic about need and be willing to ride Raji's last year out then seek to replace him -OR-

They really do expect him to handle the nose eventually. He can do it, he just prefers to one gap and penetrate, which to be fair and credit wist, is where is Pro Bowl talent shines brightest.

But Capers has probably accommodated Raji as far as he can. That Eagle Oakie front is close to a 4-3 look and puts Raji at 3 tech. Then they play plenty of sub nickel/dime which gets him off the nose as well. Unless he plans to play a 4-3 permanently as base with Wilson/Neal as White, Raji as Dotson, Pickett at 1 tech and Jones as Jones. That leaves Perry as Wayne, Matthews as Brian Williams and Hawk/Bishop to be a terrible Bernardo Harris.

Far more likely, I think, is that predictions of Jones or Neal replacing Wilson are off target. Jones might play the run as good as Wilson, but we don't know. I think he and Neal will combine to relieve Raji and Pickett of DE duties. I could be wrong; no less an expert than Nutz thought Wilson was part of the cause of the Packer run D problem in 2011 when he hung Walden out to dry on the D right. However, Matthews moving back there seemed to help even with Wilson still in there.

[3irty1]

Being rendered ineffective by double teams too often is not exactly scathing criticism. Even if you're routinely blown up by a double team you still drew a double team and that's already huge assuming there are other guys on the line capable of winning a one-on-one.

[run pMc]

Agree that Raji is not a two-gapper and more suited to 3 Tech. Does that mean he can play DE in 3-4 and subpackages? Raji's a good player, if somewhat miscast. Not sure that's on Capers -- for all Dom's faults, he's tried working Raji in a lot of ways as evidenced by his snap count. I'm coming around to thinking that being a (good) 2-gap DT is not easy and maybe doesn't come natural to Raji.

I wouldn't be surprised if TT rides out the season with Raji, who then plays elsewhere for a 4-3 team and a fat contract.

[Fritz]

That's what I think will happen.

[rbaloha1]

That's what I think will happen.

Let's Pray:worship:

[Joemailman]

Pickett will be renewed on the Donald Driver plan where he gets a new two year deal every once in a while until he burns out. My fear is that there were signs of this last year. But if he plays less DE in Base Oakie, maybe he recovers.



Maybe he recovers by losing some weight.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/packers_and_nfl/big-grease-pickett-not-quite-as-big


Pickett was encouraged by his wife, who encouraged him to pay more attention to what he ate in the offseason. As a result, Pickett says he came back to the Packers almost 10 pounds under his listed weight of 338 and almost 20 under his true playing weight.

[mission]

Good point -- please ask others to do the same:huh:

You know, I don't have a problem with you but here's something to think about that someone else told me. I might have even posted it here before.

It's called 'The Law of Bob' and it's defined as: when Bob has a problem with everyone, the problem is usually Bob.

So not to point fingers, but if everyone is really giving you a hard time and getting you riled up -- you know, maybe the easiest thing to control would be your reaction to it. It's hard to get a dozen+ people to act how you want them to. Change up the approach a little bit and I bet you'll get a different reaction. Haters gon' hate regardless. ;-)

[rbaloha1]

You know, I don't have a problem with you but here's something to think about that someone else told me. I might have even posted it here before.

It's called 'The Law of Bob' and it's defined as: when Bob has a problem with everyone, the problem is usually Bob.

So not to point fingers, but if everyone is really giving you a hard time and getting you riled up -- you know, maybe the easiest thing to control would be your reaction to it. It's hard to get a dozen+ people to act how you want them to. Change up the approach a little bit and I bet you'll get a different reaction. Haters gon' hate regardless. ;-)

Please Dr. Phil...:huh: I already know your dime store psychoanalysis and shall react to the assholes in whatever manner is suitable.

Where can I send you money for your services?:lol:

[George Cumby]

Please Dr. Phil...:huh: I already know your dime store psychoanalysis and shall react to the assholes in whatever manner is suitable.

Where can I send you money for your services?:lol:

Well, there you go.

[rbaloha1]

Well, there you go.

Domo Arigato Gozaimasu

[Fritz]

It's funny how blatant teams and players are about listing weights - Pickett admits his listed weight was about or at least ten pounds off. Ah, vanity!

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's funny how blatant teams and players are about listing weights - Pickett admits his listed weight was about or at least ten pounds off. Ah, vanity!

It's not like teams are fooled by it and I don't believe they are going "Look at how light Pickett is, we're going to run right at him". They may run at him for different reasons, but weight alone isn't it.

[Fritz]

I know. It's just a weird game, seemingly done for the vanity of the player, or so we can all pretend the player is at the "correct" weight and thus the coach doesn't have to fine him.