Burnett the clean up tackler

[Upnorth]

So love him or hate him, Burnett seems to be a pretty decent tackler in the secondary,

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/clean-aisle-2012

however we have two cb's that appear quite bad a tackling.

I did not think Burnett was much better than average at tackling / positioning, but the stats prove differently. My concern is that he maybe playing off too much however.

I hope Twill's lack of sucess at tackling players who made catches around him is shoulder related and finally clears up. Does anyone remember how he was before the injury?

[rbaloha1]

Expected MB to reach Darren Sharper level. IMO the skill level does not match a high level of play.

T Will was an excellent cover corner during the sb year and appeared on-track to stardom. IMO has not fully recovered from the 2011 Saints opener.

Given the number of emerging younger players and big $, Twill could be gone.

[pittstang5]

Burnett may be a good tackler, but for me, he's out of position too many times. Maybe I'm expecting too much and I guess I expected little to no drop off after Nick Collins went down. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this defense really misses Nick Collins.

[bobblehead]

Burnett may be a good tackler, but for me, he's out of position too many times. Maybe I'm expecting too much and I guess I expected little to no drop off after Nick Collins went down. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this defense really misses Nick Collins.

I'm with you. Burnett seems lost too often, trailing, out of position. I am not a fan...of course I thought the same thing about Collins early, but then the light went on. Burnett, like collins, has always been a good (willing) tackler (and with out LB's thats a good thing).

[Fritz]

I'm with you. Burnett seems lost too often, trailing, out of position. I am not a fan...of course I thought the same thing about Collins early, but then the light went on. Burnett, like collins, has always been a good (willing) tackler (and with out LB's thats a good thing).

Remember that this is Burnett's fourth year, I think. That's about when Collins's game really took off. Sharper's, too.

So there is still hope. But if he doesn't become a blue-chip top piece this year, well, then that's like hoping Ryan Pickett can develop some pass-rush moves.

[rbaloha1]

Burnett may be a good tackler, but for me, he's out of position too many times. Maybe I'm expecting too much and I guess I expected little to no drop off after Nick Collins went down. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this defense really misses Nick Collins.

Ditto.

No more Woodson to help him out.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Ditto.

No more Woodson to help him out.

I don't believe Woodson was always where he was supposed to be and gambled too often. So I don't see how Woodson's abscence is going to be a detriment to Burnett.

[Upnorth]

I don't believe Woodson was always where he was supposed to be and gambled too often. So I don't see how Woodson's abscence is going to be a detriment to Burnett.

BUt Woodson was all pro last year, look at how he shut down Davis in the 49ers game...

[rbaloha1]

I don't believe Woodson was always where he was supposed to be and gambled too often. So I don't see how Woodson's abscence is going to be a detriment to Burnett.

Gambling was due to multiple players not being where they were supposed to be including MB.

[rbaloha1]

BUt Woodson was all pro last year, look at how he shut down Davis in the 49ers game...

CW was not all pro last season and blanketed Davis nicely which contributed to a decent new contract.

[denverYooper]

CW was not all pro last season and blanketed Davis nicely which contributed to a decent new contract.

579

[rbaloha1]

579

Davis 1 catch, 44 yards, targeted 5 times. Stopped 80 per cent of time.

BTW still weighting for weight "methodology:laugh:

[denverYooper]

Davis 1 catch, 44 yards, targeted 5 times. Stopped 80 per cent of time.

BTW still weighting for weight "methodology:laugh:

GIYF.

But I'll rep you for the weight pun.

[mraynrand]

CW was not all pro last season and blanketed Davis nicely which contributed to a decent new contract.

Gud one! http://www.hollywoodmemorabilia.com/files/cache/steve-martin-the-pink-panther-signed-authentic-8x10-photo-psadna-t23135d_b0f386d174932b45f8999542c9fe2a35.jpgWoodso n didn't even get Walden money - Walden "One of he worst OLBs in professional football*"





*Pro Football Focus

[pbmax]

Didn't someone email Bob and find out it was from a published list by the League from the beginning of the season?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Gambling was due to multiple players not being where they were supposed to be including MB.

We'll just agree to disagree on this as I don't feel he was covering for players but just trying to make a big play and was out of position himself.

[Joemailman]

CW was not all pro last season and blanketed Davis nicely which contributed to a decent new contract.

Excellent point. He's making Jarrett Bush money.

[rbaloha1]

Excellent point. He's making Jarrett Bush money.

All these sour grapes about misanalyzing CW's continued ability to play.

Using overpaid contracts to value players covers up one's ability to see what is really happening.

This board is too much about what someone can't do vs. what someone can do and make contributions.

What fool would give CW AR $?

[rbaloha1]

Gud one! http://www.hollywoodmemorabilia.com/files/cache/steve-martin-the-pink-panther-signed-authentic-8x10-photo-psadna-t23135d_b0f386d174932b45f8999542c9fe2a35.jpgWoodso n didn't even get Walden money - Walden "One of he worst OLBs in professional football*"





*Pro Football Focus
How old is Walden vs. CW?

CW has very little leverage.

[mraynrand]

What fool would give CW AR $?

That's not the point. The point is that he can't even get Walden money. That's not a 'decent new contract.' That's all. I think CW is getting what he deserves for his diminished abilities. Don't fault him at all for taking what he could get if he still wants to try and play. I think he's pretty much done, but being the fantastic athlete that he has been, who knows what he might do? With obvious exceptions, the NFL is pretty good at paying players what they're worth.

[Guiness]

Gud one! http://www.hollywoodmemorabilia.com/files/cache/steve-martin-the-pink-panther-signed-authentic-8x10-photo-psadna-t23135d_b0f386d174932b45f8999542c9fe2a35.jpgWoodso n didn't even get Walden money - Walden "One of he worst OLBs in professional football*"

*Pro Football Focus


I wonder what will happen with Walden in Indi. The opinion here is definitely that he was barely JAG, even if he did show flashes. Certainly the Packers didn't see much future with him, I bet they were as surprised as anyone at the money he got.

[rbaloha1]

That's not the point. The point is that he can't even get Walden money. That's not a 'decent new contract.' That's all. I think CW is getting what he deserves for his diminished abilities. Don't fault him at all for taking what he could get if he still wants to try and play. I think he's pretty much done, but being the fantastic athlete that he has been, who knows what he might do? With obvious exceptions, the NFL is pretty good at paying players what they're worth.

Even if CW was an all pro last season, CW would not get Walden $.

Age and injury history prevent a lucrative contract.

IMO agent got best possible $ for an aging yet contributor in the right schemes.

[rbaloha1]

I wonder what will happen with Walden in Indi. The opinion here is definitely that he was barely JAG, even if he did show flashes. Certainly the Packers didn't see much future with him, I bet they were as surprised as anyone at the money he got.

Aside form the money the comments made by the Indy hc were hysterical.

[rbaloha1]

With obvious exceptions, the NFL is pretty good at paying players what they're worth.

Jarrett Bush
Mark Sanchez
Santonio Holmes
AJ Hawk
Jamarcus Russell
Eric Walden

Just getting started.

[mraynrand]

Even if CW was an all pro last season, CW would not get Walden $.

That's absurd, unless you are suggesting all pro designation due to a sympathy/past history vote. The Packers, and most teams in the NFL would have paid him far better than Walden if he played like 2009 last year. Woodson played like Donald Driver last year, that's why he's getting a bare minimum contract. Almost everyone sees the end is very near.

[mraynrand]

I wonder what will happen with Walden in Indi. The opinion here is definitely that he was barely JAG, even if he did show flashes. Certainly the Packers didn't see much future with him, I bet they were as surprised as anyone at the money he got.

No doubt he will show some flashes, maybe even have a Chicago-like game. But he will also, very likely, look like dog droppings probably 90% of the time.

[mraynrand]

With obvious exceptions, the NFL is pretty good at paying players what they're worth.

Jarrett Bush
Mark Sanchez
Santonio Holmes
AJ Hawk
Jamarcus Russell
Eric Walden

Just getting started.

people would probably debate one or two of those; still, keep going, you only have about 4000 roster players left to evaluate. 1% is 40. Find 200 and then you're talking.

[rbaloha1]

No doubt he will show some flashes, maybe even have a Chicago-like game. But he will also, very likely, look like dog droppings probably 90% of the time.

How do you explain cw covering vernon davis ranked as the number 38 player by the nfl network very well?

[rbaloha1]

people would probably debate one or two of those; still, keep going, you only have about 4000 roster players left to evaluate. 1% is 40. Find 200 and then you're talking.

so everyone else is not overpaid? you keep going:bs::beat:

[mraynrand]

How do you explain cw covering vernon davis ranked as the number 38 player by the nfl network very well?

was that English?

[rbaloha1]

people would probably debate one or two of those; still, keep going, you only have about 4000 roster players left to evaluate. 1% is 40. Find 200 and then you're talking.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45iehm/nfls-most-overpaid-players/

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45ejhi/the-nfls-most-overpaid-players-2/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1581421-every-nfl-teams-most-overpaid-player

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1581421-every-nfl-teams-most-overpaid-player

Free market at its best.

[mraynrand]

so everyone else is not overpaid? you keep going:bs::beat:

Find 200 NFL players, not paid properly (too much or too little), with no debate. Good luck.

[rbaloha1]

was that English?

is yours?

[rbaloha1]

Find 200 NFL players, not paid properly (too much or too little), with no debate. Good luck.

Good luck to you thinking payment=performance.:bclap:

[mraynrand]

Good luck to you thinking payment=performance.:bclap:

well then, what are we talking about here? What exactly do you think "Getting paid what you're worth" means? My point is very simple: most players in the NFL are getting paid about what they should for their skills, relative to other players, with some obvious exceptions - maybe about 100-150 players are off the mark. Some get paid for past performance and some get paid in hopes of future performance, etc. etc., but it mostly evens out. Meaning in this case, that Woodson is probably getting paid properly for a very old guy in NFL terms who has clearly lost a step or three.

[mraynrand]

is yours?

Yes, and your post was incomprehensible. Try again if you want a response.

[rbaloha1]

Yes, and your post was incomprehensible. Try again if you want a response.

by design braddah. not sekin any da kine fom u.

[mraynrand]

by design braddah. not sekin any da kine fom u.

So, you're claiming intentional obfuscation. That renders you an unworthy debate partner. Ignored from now on.

[rbaloha1]

So, you're claiming intentional obfuscation. That renders you an unworthy debate partner. Ignored from now on.

Mahalo

[pbmax]

I wonder what will happen with Walden in Indi. The opinion here is definitely that he was barely JAG, even if he did show flashes. Certainly the Packers didn't see much future with him, I bet they were as surprised as anyone at the money he got.

He's like a baseball prospect getting another chance. Each coach thinks they can correct him. But its his head versus his heart. Physically, Pagano was correct when he said Walden could set an edge. Physically he was a match to the position. But he made bad choices about when to commit to pursuit and abandon his contain.

[Fritz]

He's like a baseball prospect getting another chance. Each coach thinks they can correct him. But its his head versus his heart. Physically, Pagano was correct when he said Walden could set an edge. Physically he was a match to the position. But he made bad choices about when to commit to pursuit and abandon his contain.

I've had the same problem when dating.

[rbaloha1]

He's like a baseball prospect getting another chance. Each coach thinks they can correct him. But its his head versus his heart. Physically, Pagano was correct when he said Walden could set an edge. Physically he was a match to the position. But he made bad choices about when to commit to pursuit and abandon his contain.

It is interesting that in the subsequent days espn football analysts showed why Walden was not at fault. Walden was performing assignments correctly but other players were not.

EW is strictly a first off the bus guy.

[pbmax]

It is interesting that in the subsequent days espn football analysts showed why Walden was not at fault. Walden was performing assignments correctly but other players were not.

EW is strictly a first off the bus guy.

Link?

[denverYooper]

Link?

bcmginn@journalsentinel.com

[pbmax]

On its face, it sounds like the kind of contra-conventional wisdom you would get from someone on NFL Tonight in order to start a debate. But I am willing to listen.

Those plays by Kap were not the only ones to go bad, so everything could help.

[rbaloha1]

On its face, it sounds like the kind of contra-conventional wisdom you would get from someone on NFL Tonight in order to start a debate. But I am willing to listen.

Those plays by Kap were not the only ones to go bad, so everything could help.

It was demonstrated with tape and appeared correct.

[rbaloha1]

On its face, it sounds like the kind of contra-conventional wisdom you would get from someone on NFL Tonight in order to start a debate. But I am willing to listen.

Those plays by Kap were not the only ones to go bad, so everything could help.

Why do you always accuse media of intentionally provoking debate if it is contrary to your views?

The point was singling out of EW when there was numerous team breakdowns.

The bad performance started with Capers poor game prep.

[pbmax]

Why do you always accuse media of intentionally provoking debate if it is contrary to your views?

The point was singling out of EW when there was numerous team breakdowns.

The bad performance started with Capers poor game prep.

Because if I pointed out everytime ESPN or talk radio started a staged debate to increase ratings, I would have no time for anything else. I mention it when its germane to a conversation I am having. Seems kinds reasonable to me. I shouldn't be forced to post both sides of an argument, should I?

In this case, I do recall someone (possibly you) mentioning this coverage at the time. But I do not remember this conclusion:


... espn football analysts showed why Walden was not at fault. Walden was performing assignments correctly but other players were not.

Much depends on who is doing the analysis because some at ESPN do their work and are current. Many simply blather platitudes and conventional wisdom.

But if you have a link, or can find an article covering the material, I would love to see it. Because as I said above, there were too many mistakes and Walden wasn't it on all of them. But he had two of the worst, including the 56 yard touchdown. And if someone at ESPN actually said he was not at fault at all, I would love to know how they came to that conclusion.

[rbaloha1]

Because if I pointed out everytime ESPN or talk radio started a staged debate to increase ratings, I would have no time for anything else. I mention it when its germane to a conversation I am having. Seems kinds reasonable to me. I shouldn't be forced to post both sides of an argument, should I?

In this case, I do recall someone (possibly you) mentioning this coverage at the time. But I do not remember this conclusion:



Much depends on who is doing the analysis because some at ESPN do their work and are current. Many simply blather platitudes and conventional wisdom.

But if you have a link, or can find an article covering the material, I would love to see it. Because as I said above, there were too many mistakes and Walden wasn't it on all of them. But he had two of the worst, including the 56 yard touchdown. And if someone at ESPN actually said he was not at fault at all, I would love to know how they came to that conclusion.

It was from some tv show. Unsure if on-line stuff exists.

No offense -- but I am going to take seriously what ex-nfl players and coaches that watch coach's tape conclude.

[rbaloha1]

Because if I pointed out everytime ESPN or talk radio started a staged debate to increase ratings, I would have no time for anything else. I mention it when its germane to a conversation I am having. Seems kinds reasonable to me. I shouldn't be forced to post both sides of an argument, should I?

In this case, I do recall someone (possibly you) mentioning this coverage at the time. But I do not remember this conclusion:



Much depends on who is doing the analysis because some at ESPN do their work and are current. Many simply blather platitudes and conventional wisdom.

But if you have a link, or can find an article covering the material, I would love to see it. Because as I said above, there were too many mistakes and Walden wasn't it on all of them. But he had two of the worst, including the 56 yard touchdown. And if someone at ESPN actually said he was not at fault at all, I would love to know how they came to that conclusion.

Coach Greene disagrees with you.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130115/PKR0101/130115073/Don-t-blame-Walden-Kaepernick-s-TD-dash-says-Greene

[rbaloha1]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1569001-how-erik-walden-duped-colts-into-overpaying-for-his-services

For rats that equate salary based on performance.

[Cleft Crusty]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1569001-how-erik-walden-duped-colts-into-overpaying-for-his-services

It's remarkable how, according to some unnamed ESPN source, Walden was not responsible for any of the problems versus SF, yet he had to 'dupe' the Colts into paying him a "whole 16 million" (the amazing thing is that 8 million is guaranteed; that's a lot for dog meat like Walden, but pretty low for a starting OLB).



Clefty struggles to find anyone who thought Walden played well against the 49ers, and most attribute the major breakdowns to Walden. Walden played well against the Colts, and played well against the Bears at the end of 2010. He flashes here and there, and that seems to tease teams into thinking they will get that 16+ games each year. But, by this time in a player's career, you know what you're getting: for Walden that's a guy who will play like a dud 14 games a year, and maybe have one or two solid, eye catching games. If you're the Colts, you hope those are in the playoffs.


Walden was at his worst in the Packers' playoff loss to the San Francisco 49ers. While he certainly wasn't the only reason why the Packers lost, he was truly awful. His failures were a large reason why 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick ran wild for 181 yards and 2 scores on the ground. PFF once again ranked him dead last in the NFL in pass rushing among 3-4 outside linebackers. They also ranked him dead last on their list of free agent edge defenders. The Green Bay Packers really had no desire to re-sign him, Walden would later say. It isn't hard to see why. Devin Shanley of Acme Packing Company, the Packers SB Nation blog, wrote this of Walden in his free agent preview of the outside linebacker:

Likelihood Of Re-Signing

I hope with all my being that it’s poor. I’ll say this again, Walden is the worst OLB available in free agency right now according to PFF. The Packers could sign literally anyone else and have it be an upgrade. The problem is that Ted Thompson likes to keep his own guys and Walden is bound to be extra cheap (he is the worst OLB free agent available after all); so it’s not unreasonable to expect him back trying out for the team again in 2013. Sigh….I think I died a little typing that sentence.

[denverYooper]

Coach Greene disagrees with you.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130115/PKR0101/130115073/Don-t-blame-Walden-Kaepernick-s-TD-dash-says-Greene

In a sport that requires so much esprit de corps, it would be terrible form for a coach to specifically call out a player to the media, especially immediately after an emotional loss.

[pbmax]

Coach Greene disagrees with you.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130115/PKR0101/130115073/Don-t-blame-Walden-Kaepernick-s-TD-dash-says-Greene

Yes, and I have pointed to those statements before. Green did defend him. But KYPack caught the NFL Films tape of the game and while mic'd up, Green told Walden after the play that he "can't do that".

So while it does not clear anyone else of fault on the play (the CB was no help and Wood took a bad angle) it seems clear Green was defending his guy.

[RashanGary]

More and more, I'm with Wist on the players not fitting a scheme. Joe Whitt said they played press defense last year, and that's why Tramon had a lesser year. He said Tramon can play press, but he's best in off coverage. Shields, on the other hand, plays best in press coverage. They took Tramon out of his playmaking role because Shields is better at press.

Obviously Raji and Clay's strong points conflict and Clay is going to win that decision.

We never should have been playing press man coverage against SF. We should have been off, facing the ball. But Shields can't, so we were forced into an idiotic scheme that puts our OLBs in awful position. Shields looks good because he's good at one thing. We do the one thing he's good at because the other guys are more complete players and can play the other defenses better. Still, everyone suffers because of Shields inability to play most defenses. As much talent as we have, I think we do ourselves a huge disservice by catering to Sam Shields. He's not good enough to design your whole coverage scheme around him. He's just so bad at the other things, we're forced to.

If Hyde could pick up that slot position quickly, I think we'd be better off with two well rounded players at CB. The way we have to dumb everything down for SS is a bigger problem than any positives he brings to the table.

[rbaloha1]

More and more, I'm with Wist on the players not fitting a scheme. Joe Whitt said they played press defense last year, and that's why Tramon had a lesser year. He said Tramon can play press, but he's best in off coverage. Shields, on the other hand, plays best in press coverage. They took Tramon out of his playmaking role because Shields is better at press.

Obviously Raji and Clay's strong points conflict and Clay is going to win that decision.

We never should have been playing press man coverage against SF. We should have been off, facing the ball. But Shields can't, so we were forced into an idiotic scheme that puts our OLBs in awful position. Shields looks good because he's good at one thing. We do the one thing he's good at because the other guys are more complete players and can play the other defenses better. Still, everyone suffers because of Shields inability to play most defenses. As much talent as we have, I think we do ourselves a huge disservice by catering to Sam Shields. He's not good enough to design your whole coverage scheme around him. He's just so bad at the other things, we're forced to.

If Hyde could pick up that slot position quickly, I think we'd be better off with two well rounded players at CB. The way we have to dumb everything down for SS is a bigger problem than any positives he brings to the table.

SS could maybe form his own island like Revis.

Disagree about SS -- problems were peaking into the backfield and tackling. Both were corrected and SS was best packer secondary player late in the season.

SS is good in all defenses but certainly is best at bump and run.

[Joemailman]

Maybe the real problem is that Tramon's shoulder doesn't allow him to play press very well. It may be time to look at someone else at his starting CB position if the shoulder continues to be a problem.

[Patler]

Greene went well beyond defending Walden in his interview, and his explanation was formed after reviewing the film. His instantaneous reaction during the game from his field level view may not have been as correct as his opinion formed after reviewing the film.

[Joemailman]

If Walden did what he was supposed to do in that defensive formation, they have to throw that formation out. There is no way the CB (Tramon) was going to be able to stop that play. Maybe Woodson wasn't where he was supposed to be?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-NkR_TKS3s

[3irty1]

More and more, I'm with Wist on the players not fitting a scheme. Joe Whitt said they played press defense last year, and that's why Tramon had a lesser year. He said Tramon can play press, but he's best in off coverage. Shields, on the other hand, plays best in press coverage. They took Tramon out of his playmaking role because Shields is better at press.

Obviously Raji and Clay's strong points conflict and Clay is going to win that decision.

We never should have been playing press man coverage against SF. We should have been off, facing the ball. But Shields can't, so we were forced into an idiotic scheme that puts our OLBs in awful position. Shields looks good because he's good at one thing. We do the one thing he's good at because the other guys are more complete players and can play the other defenses better. Still, everyone suffers because of Shields inability to play most defenses. As much talent as we have, I think we do ourselves a huge disservice by catering to Sam Shields. He's not good enough to design your whole coverage scheme around him. He's just so bad at the other things, we're forced to.

If Hyde could pick up that slot position quickly, I think we'd be better off with two well rounded players at CB. The way we have to dumb everything down for SS is a bigger problem than any positives he brings to the table.

You sure that's not backwards? From my non-whitt eyes I'd say Tramon has been better in press over the years although hasn't played nearly as much of it in 2011 and 2012. I assumed that was shoulder related. While SS is willing to throw his body around he's not really the big strong body to be a real monster in press. Nor would I think he'd be as reliant on it since he he's got elite recovery speed and ability to play the ball.

[rbaloha1]

Greene went well beyond defending Walden in his interview, and his explanation was formed after reviewing the film. His instantaneous reaction during the game from his field level view may not have been as correct as his opinion formed after reviewing the film.

Sounds reasonable.

Watching the clip again, it appears EW was where he was supposed to be on the outside shoulder of the d-linemen but was blocked very well by the rb.

IMO it was just good 49er execution.

Do not get me wrong -- I am thrilled EW is gone. Maybe Perry fights off the block and makes the play.

[rbaloha1]

You sure that's not backwards? From my non-whitt eyes I'd say Tramon has been better in press over the years although hasn't played nearly as much of it in 2011 and 2012. I assumed that was shoulder related. While SS is willing to throw his body around he's not really the big strong body to be a real monster in press. Nor would I think he'd be as reliant on it since he he's got elite recovery speed and ability to play the ball.

Agree -- prior to the injury TW was better in press coverage. Capers is a big cover 2 guy.

Disagree -- SS has bulked up with good weight allowing him to tackle like a safety. It is nice that SS has the confidence to knife thru a gap to tackle.

Expect SS to have a "Show me the Money" year.

[Upnorth]

Regardless of his fearlessness SS should not be kept as a starter if they have to dumb down the plays for him. I am very sceptical about the statement that he is a hinderance, however is there any evidence besides what JH put forward to support such a statement.

[rbaloha1]

Regardless of his fearlessness SS should not be kept as a starter if they have to dumb down the plays for him. I am very sceptical about the statement that he is a hinderance, however is there any evidence besides what JH put forward to support such a statement.

SS is not Bush -- coverage is his number one strength.

[Upnorth]

SS is not Bush -- coverage is his number one strength.

While I am no cb expert I see coverage as his best asset as well. Has his lack of play knowledge Ben addressed before?

[Guiness]

It was TWill who was the press corner - he started with the Pack when Al Harris was around, and learned from him SS's speed made him more of a cover corner - when he messed up coverage, he could still catch up.

Last year though, the roles seemed to change. TWill lost some physicality with the shoulder injury, played more off, and SS seemed more willing to tackle and play physical with receivers!

[Guiness]

While I am no cb expert I see coverage as his best asset as well. Has his lack of play knowledge Ben addressed before?

roethlisberger's been in the league long enough, he should know the playbook by now!

[Upnorth]

So furthering the SS discussion he was tied for 7th worst YAC given up by CB's last year,

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012

so while he may or may not have been more willing to tackle, he was not quick to get it done on WR apparently.

I would like to furhter point out lets target the crap out of Jefferson when we play min.

Conversley way to go Hayward

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2012

Looking good so far at this point in his career

[rbaloha1]

So furthering the SS discussion he was tied for 7th worst YAC given up by CB's last year,

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2012

so while he may or may not have been more willing to tackle, he was not quick to get it done on WR apparently.

I would like to furhter point out lets target the crap out of Jefferson when we play min.

Conversley way to go Hayward

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2012

Looking good so far at this point in his career

What was SS's stats after returning from injury? How many td receptions did SS surrender?

[pbmax]

More and more, I'm with Wist on the players not fitting a scheme. Joe Whitt said they played press defense last year, and that's why Tramon had a lesser year. He said Tramon can play press, but he's best in off coverage. Shields, on the other hand, plays best in press coverage. They took Tramon out of his playmaking role because Shields is better at press.


Wasn't Shields forced into off coverage in 2011, the injury year (his own and Collins), and terrible at it? Can he have been terrible at off coverage because of a shoulder injury if its his specialty (I am actually asking, not a rhetorical)?

I do remember someone saying Al was not comfortable in zone or off, Woodson was OK with it (preferred press) and Williams was more versatile. I guess that leaves room for him to be better at off coverage theoretically.

However, be careful when worrying about players not fitting a scheme. Every D has that and its unusual to have a great paired fit (like Smith and Smith in San Fran) that go together like a jigsaw puzzle with interlocking skills.

Usually, as many players are subsuming their individual play for the betterment of the team as others are only playing to their strengths. The less you have of this, obviously the better. But no team is without mismatches. The problem is attitude and whether you can do what is asked. See Raji, BJ.

[pbmax]

If Walden did what he was supposed to do in that defensive formation, they have to throw that formation out. There is no way the CB (Tramon) was going to be able to stop that play. Maybe Woodson wasn't where he was supposed to be?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-NS3s

Something was wrong with that play because San Fran had everyone covered on an option play when one guy is supposed to go uncovered.

Woodson is in coverage in the slot and cannot fill the LOS. He shouldn't however, have drifted into the middle. He has contain as well and he gave it up.

[pbmax]

You know what? I think it could be Jones. From the angle in Joe's video, it looks like Jones was scraping to the outside then diverted back inside. Does anyone else see it that way?

That would explain why Walden was so keen to take on that block and push inside. His job was to squeeze the hole. Can't be Woodson at fault initially he is in coverage. Its either Jones or Walden on the LOS.

Raji also got destroyed on this play by a double team and the collateral damage collected Hawk. If Jones had scraped outside as perhaps intended, that hole would have been abandoned since Raji got knocked out and Hawk got caught up in trash. If Gore had gotten the ball, he might have scored as well.

Its about as bad as possible because Burnett was late to come up as well.

Assignment football. Raji doesn't hold ground, Hawk gets caught in traffic, Walden doesn't do a great job squeezing the hole and Jones does not run to his assigned lane.

[rbaloha1]

According to recent article the TAMU coaches stated if you are going to play the outside shoulder which EW did, others must play the other gaps which other Packers failed to do.

Problem is the Packers took away nothing.

Again Aranda always stressed stopping the dive first which imo from defending the option is numero uno. It starts with the ng beating the center then whoever assigned to the qb taking away the run and forcing the pitch. After the pitch everyone chases the pitchman.

Easier said than done since everyone must keep their assignment and not deviate. This is not basketball that allows for switching on defense.

Adjusting on the fly is the biggest advantage of the read option imo.

[pbmax]

According to recent article the TAMU coaches stated if you are going to play the outside shoulder which EW did, others must play the other gaps which other Packers failed to do.

Problem is the Packers took away nothing.

Again Aranda always stressed stopping the dive first which imo from defending the option is numero uno. It starts with the ng beating the center then whoever assigned to the qb taking away the run and forcing the pitch. After the pitch everyone chases the pitchman.

Easier said than done since everyone must keep their assignment and not deviate. This is not basketball that allows for switching on defense.

Adjusting on the fly is the biggest advantage of the read option imo.

There is no pitch on the Read Options the 49ers ran. Do we have any idea how many times Gore got the ball out of the read option?

If Jones/ILB is scraping outside then Walden's job is to crash inside, not just hold a shoulder. Walden is assigned to Gore in that scenario.

Also, there is a blocking back headed to the play side (and sometimes the RB's hole) so its not a dive.

Also, a lot of teams scrape the exchange with the ILB and DE/OLB. So switching is possible, but as I said earlier, everyone has to deliver on their assignment.

[rbaloha1]

There is no pitch on the Read Options the 49ers ran. Do we have any idea how many times Gore got the ball out of the read option?

If Jones/ILB is scraping outside then Walden's job is to crash inside, not just hold a shoulder. Walden is assigned to Gore in that scenario.

Also, there is a blocking back headed to the play side (and sometimes the RB's hole) so its not a dive.

Also, a lot of teams scrape the exchange with the ILB and DE/OLB. So switching is possible, but as I said earlier, everyone has to deliver on their assignment.

Scraping is risky especially with stupid football players. IMO assignment football is the way to go.