Packers To Part Ways With Bishop?

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/211135711.html


According to a NFL source, the team will release the inside linebacker if they're unable to restructure his deal or pull off a trade. Bishop is currently set to make $3.464 million this season, part of the four-year, $19 million deal he signed in January 2011.

[George Cumby]

Weird. Is the injury worse than we thought?

[rbaloha1]

Weird. Is the injury worse than we thought?

The Packers are keeping Hawk over Bishop?

Also tells me one of the youngsters stepped it up big time.

[rbaloha1]

Hope DB does not end up with the ViQueens.

[Bretsky]

I think they really like Manning long term.

Wist will like this. When you think....who is the tough guy asskicker on the Packer Defense.......I think Bishop. It's almost like he doesn't belong on Green Bay's Defense.

Therefore they will set him free after drastically overpaying JustaGuyJones

[rbaloha1]

I think they really like Manning long term.

Wist will like this. When you think....who is the tough guy asskicker on the Packer Defense.......I think Bishop. It's almost like he doesn't belong on Green Bay's Defense.

Therefore they will set him free after drastically overpaying JustaGuyJones

Manning has the potential to be another Bishop.

[Patler]

I mentioned this when Bishop's injury occurred. Not too many years ago, a torn hamstring bad enough to end a season before it started, often ended up being career altering if not career ending.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is one of the stranger moves I can recall. Bishop claims he's healthy. Brandon Chillar tore his hammie and ended up retiring a few years back.

[Packers4Glory]

signing brad jones for starter money was not smart.

[denverYooper]

signing brad jones for starter money was not smart.

Or maybe it was, depending on the extent of Bishop's injury. If the injury has a high probability of re-occurring or Bishop's play falls of significantly as a result of it then they are covering themselves a bit at ILB for the year. I see it as at worst a hedge and at best a bet on Jones's continued development at ILB.

I am a Bishop guy and I'm pulling for him, but if the article is true then the injury must be a big concern for the FO. It's possible that the "restructure" they have in mind involves more injury-related protections for the team.

[pbmax]

I think they really like Manning long term.

Wist will like this. When you think....who is the tough guy asskicker on the Packer Defense.......I think Bishop. It's almost like he doesn't belong on Green Bay's Defense.

Therefore they will set him free after drastically overpaying JustaGuyJones

Its not Manning. He hasn't been healthy in pads for the Packers yet. In-season practices are barely padded anymore and they don't hit much even on that one day a week. He didn't get fully healthy until the middle of the season. And he took the offseason to get back to 235 lbs.

This is Jones making Bishop expendable. And no, I can't believe I just wrote that either.

Its either that or injury protection.

[3irty1]

I'd be very disappointed if Bishop's Packer days were over, especially if it was because of injury. Guy has been a thorn in the middle of our defense. Lots of guys are better on paper but Bishop is a guy who gets shit done.

[denverYooper]

Well, twitter is all atwitter this morning about the impending release of Bishop.

Wilde:

Impending release of @Desbishop55 means he'd join Woodson, Jennings, Driver, Crabtree as fan faves who are gone. Which is most frustrating?

Nagler:

Bishop's release reminds me of the release of Al Harris. Fans incredulous, saying it "makes no sense" without any actual information.

[denverYooper]

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/page.php?page_id=278

Wilde is a second on the source that Bish's time is up.

[Old School]

I'll have to do some serious adjustment to watch the Packer D without Bishop. I thought it was a foregone conclusion he's be a D leader long term. But ..... the FO is operating with a lot more information than any of us. However this ends, we have to assume it was done in the best interests of the team. There's that assume word again.

[rbaloha1]

signing brad jones for starter money was not smart.

Yup. Jones is a TT type player -- quiet and goes about his business.

Bishop would be a distraction as a backup.

[rbaloha1]

I mentioned this when Bishop's injury occurred. Not too many years ago, a torn hamstring bad enough to end a season before it started, often ended up being career altering if not career ending.

Thanks for the self congratulating :bow:

[pbmax]

Bishop and Smith could be victims of a new approach to injuries.

And the fact that there are 5 other ILBs on the roster. There must be something that keeps this team from falling in love with him because his sack and forced fumble numbers are not going to be easy to duplicate.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/211135711.html

[rbaloha1]

Bishop and Smith could be victims of a new approach to injuries.

And the fact that there are 5 other ILBs on the roster. There must be something that keeps this team from falling in love with him because his sack and forced fumble numbers are not going to be easy to duplicate.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/211135711.html

Does McGinn get any credit for mentioning the injury stuff then chastising the packers for selecting an injury plagued Lacy?:huh:

[pbmax]

Does McGinn get any credit for mentioning the injury stuff then chastising the packers for selecting an injury plagued Lacy?:huh:

Sure, credit for the injury thing if this is indeed what happened with Bishop (and Smith).

But Lacy, absent new revelations, is still proof that the article's lede was oversold. Clearly it was neither mandate nor inviolable. That Lacy was still on their board tells us this, no matter what pick he went in.

If both player decisions come down to injury considerations, then there is currently still a grey area where a medical concern gets trumped by other considerations. Its possible that they level of tolerance has narrowed, but that was not the article McGinn wrote.

[Patler]

Thanks for the self congratulating :bow:

Another anal response from our chief asshole.

[rbaloha1]

Another anal response from our chief asshole.

Thank you -- I wear it proudly. Anymore compliments?:bow:

[rbaloha1]

Sure, credit for the injury thing if this is indeed what happened with Bishop (and Smith).

But Lacy, absent new revelations, is still proof that the article's lede was oversold. Clearly it was neither mandate nor inviolable. That Lacy was still on their board tells us this, no matter what pick he went in.

If both player decisions come down to injury considerations, then there is currently still a grey area where a medical concern gets trumped by other considerations. Its possible that they level of tolerance has narrowed, but that was not the article McGinn wrote.

Bottom Line -- Lacy was too good to pass up and shall prove to be the correct pick.

[Patler]

Does McGinn get any credit for mentioning the injury stuff then chastising the packers for selecting an injury plagued Lacy?:huh:

Ah, no, because that isn't what was reported. I believe the report was that their inside information was that the Packers had red-flagged Jones due to injury history, and the Packers would avoid drafting players with injury concerns. McGinn's crackerjack inside info was they would draft bigger and stronger, so they drafted their smallest O-linemen. McGinn(?) and/or his crew also used their first rate inside info to tell us how Raji and Pickett had descended into horrible condition in a matter of a couple months, In reality, the Packers told us they were in great condition, and now it is reported that Pickett may be in the best condition he has been in for years. Yup, their inside info is top notch.

The chief value to be obtained from reading McGinn's stuff is for his player evaluations pre-draft. His reporting about the Packer operations? Not so accurate.

[Packers4Glory]

Jones is garbage as anything other than a backup.

[woodbuck27]

This news surprizes me. It's confusing news.

Can it be just about his CAP hit? I don't get it. So many experts looked to the status of D. Bishop as a key reason why our 'D' fell off last season.

PACKERS !

[Upnorth]

If his injury is lingering it is a good move, and would also explain why we overpaid (in my opinion) for Jones. I'm guessing that Bishop won't be in uniform for any team at the start of the season if he is released.

[rbaloha1]

Ah, no, because that isn't what was reported. I believe the report was that their inside information was that the Packers had red-flagged Jones due to injury history, and the Packers would avoid drafting players with injury concerns. McGinn's crackerjack inside info was they would draft bigger and stronger, so they drafted their smallest O-linemen. McGinn(?) and/or his crew also used their first rate inside info to tell us how Raji and Pickett had descended into horrible condition in a matter of a couple months, In reality, the Packers told us they were in great condition, and now it is reported that Pickett may be in the best condition he has been in for years. Yup, their inside info is top notch.

The chief value to be obtained from reading McGinn's stuff is for his player evaluations pre-draft. His reporting about the Packer operations? Not so accurate.

Good post even though disagree with your contentions.

The Packers are attempting to get bigger and more physical as evidenced by the weight gain of Finley, bigger blocking tight end Mulligan and the punishing runner in Lacy.

Again the o-linemen are capable of gaining weight as evidenced by Persian guy weighing at 305lbs (290-295 at combine) and Tretter making big weight gains since a college freshman.

Pickett is in his contract year -- do you think RP is going to allow himself to morph into a sumo wrestler?

[rbaloha1]

This news surprizes me. It's confusing news.

Can it be just about his CAP hit? I don't get it. So many experts looked to the status of D. Bishop as a key reason why our 'D' fell off last season.

PACKERS !

BISHOP is a confident outspoken dude. Maybe he belongs on the Jets.

[ThunderDan]

This news surprizes me. It's confusing news.

Can it be just about his CAP hit? I don't get it. So many experts looked to the status of D. Bishop as a key reason why our 'D' fell off last season.

PACKERS !

Our D was the worst in the NFL in 2011. It moved up into the top half in 2012.

2011 - 411.6 ypg
2012 - 336.8 ypg

[rbaloha1]

Our D was the worst in the NFL in 2011. It moved up into the top half in 2012.

2011 - 411.6 ypg
2012 - 336.8 ypg

Okay -- but can it stop the read option?

[ThunderDan]

Okay -- but can it stop the read option?

Give them a summer to figure it out now that it is on tape.

We will find out in week 1 if we did.

[rbaloha1]

Give them a summer to figure it out now that it is on tape.

We will find out in week 1 if we did.

Do you have faith?

[Fritz]

Okay -- but can it stop the read option?

On the surface, it would appear that the type and seriousness of the injury are factors in his release. It's not that he was injured, in and of itself; it's that he suffered a type of injury from which it is hard to return if as serious as his was.

However, other factors likely play in. Maybe each position group has a rough cap limit in Thompson's mind and Bishop's pay, combined with the type of injury, made for too much risk.

Another possibility is the one RB mentions - that perhaps the team sees Bishop as not suited to stop the read option. He's not the fastest nor the best in coverage.

But damn I hope they don't release him. He couldn't cover very well, but he had a nose for the ball and often moved blockers.

[rbaloha1]

On the surface, it would appear that the type and seriousness of the injury are factors in his release. It's not that he was injured, in and of itself; it's that he suffered a type of injury from which it is hard to return if as serious as his was.

However, other factors likely play in. Maybe each position group has a rough cap limit in Thompson's mind and Bishop's pay, combined with the type of injury, made for too much risk.

Another possibility is the one RB mentions - that perhaps the team sees Bishop as not suited to stop the read option. He's not the fastest nor the best in coverage.

But damn I hope they don't release him. He couldn't cover very well, but he had a nose for the ball and often moved blockers.

Please -- I am a Bishop fan and believe DB can control the dive when coupled with Pickett.


The release imo is the unwillingness of DB to be a backup.

[Bossman641]

Very confused by this news if it's true. There cannot be any contractual reason to release him at this time, is there? And the team doesn't reconvene until TC in late July. Why not keep him around for another 2 months and see where he stands injury-wise then? Would they be releasing him now as a favor to him?

[mraynrand]

Bishop and Smith could be victims of a new approach to injuries.

And the fact that there are 5 other ILBs on the roster. There must be something that keeps this team from falling in love with him because his sack and forced fumble numbers are not going to be easy to duplicate.

Two good points. I can't help but think back to Bishop's first play from scrimmage in replacement of Barnett - too slow to the ball and gives up a TD at Minnesota. Sure, he's more suited to ILB in a 3-4, is a aggressive, good tackler, rushes the passer OK, but maybe the Packers are more worried about pass coverage from their ILB position - and as you suggest, know more than we do about the injury.

[mraynrand]

The chief value to be obtained from reading McGinn's stuff is for his player evaluations pre-draft. His reporting about the Packer operations? Not so accurate.

I've been wondering about that more and more of late. He seems to be talking to people who are at least one step removed from the day to day stuff. Also, he seems to talk to Thompson a lot, and TT won't say anything accurate - or at least revealing - about any player. Like to know his sources.

[cheesner]

Good post even though disagree with your contentions.

The Packers are attempting to get bigger and more physical as evidenced by the weight gain of Finley, bigger blocking tight end Mulligan and the punishing runner in Lacy.

Again the o-linemen are capable of gaining weight as evidenced by Persian guy weighing at 305lbs (290-295 at combine) and Tretter making big weight gains since a college freshman.

Pickett is in his contract year -- do you think RP is going to allow himself to morph into a sumo wrestler?

It the Packers want to get bigger, why would they draft smaller players and hope they get bigger?

Finley got bigger, Pickett got smaller. I'm not seeing a trend.

I think it is fairly obvious to most people that McGinn was completely wrong in his 'inside information' on the direction the Packers were taking. To me its not a big deal, what killed his credibility is his post draft assertion that the Packers traded back trying to not draft Lacy but were eventually forced into taking him. I mean really.


As far as cutting ties with Bishop, I am shocked. We do not have all the info, and here are the possibilities:

1. His injury is going to reduce his ability to play in the Packer's view
2. They like Jones more than many posters do. Personally, I was very impressed with him as a rookie and thought we had a hidden gem. I have cooled on him in subsequent season, not seeing much improvement. But know this - he has the tools to be a very good player.
3. Another player on the roster is expected to emerge. Packers want to get as many reps in for the young pup to get him ready to be an impact player. My bet here would be Terrell Manning who has greatly impressed me. Having a stomach virus that makes you sick as a dog, playing through it, losing 15 lbs, and still playing okay, makes me think if he is healthy he can be impactful.

[Smidgeon]

I doubt Finley is any bigger than he was in 2010 when he lost weight to play more like a WR and get a WR contract/franchise tag. I'm surprised nobody has pounced on this yet. He lost weight on his own that year, and now he's putting it back on. It wasn't to become bigger. It was to get back to where he was in 2010 when he was on pace to be the best TE in the league.

[pbmax]

Please -- I am a Bishop fan and believe DB can control the dive when coupled with Pickett.


The release imo is the unwillingness of DB to be a backup.

That would be fantastic diagnosis if the problem had been the running back on the option. And again, its not a dive.

Bishop was an ILB with Pickett on the LOS and contributed to a terrible run defense in 2011. He isn't a savior. Whatever he does well, its not enough on its own to be a difference maker.

His turnovers (FF) and sacks will be missed more than run D.

[Patler]

This is one of the stranger moves I can recall. Bishop claims he's healthy. Brandon Chillar tore his hammie and ended up retiring a few years back.

I suspect your second sentence explains exactly why the move is not strange. Bishop has claimed to be healed, but a few weeks ago or so I read a comment from him about being some % toward fully healed, but certain that he would be healed for camp. The Packers may have less faith in that prognosis.

Re-signing Jones foreshadowed this. With Hawk's restructure, I thought there might be an outside chance they would keep all three, but there certainly are better places to spend salary cap dollars than paying two starters for one position.

[RashanGary]

I suspect your second sentence explains exactly why the move is not strange. Bishop has claimed to be healed, but a few weeks ago or so I read a comment from him about being some % toward fully healed, but certain that he would be healed for camp. The Packers may have less faith in that prognosis.

Re-signing Jones foreshadowed this. With Hawk's restructure, I thought there might be an outside chance they would keep all three, but there certainly are better places to spend salary cap dollars than paying two starters for one position.

This makes a lot of sense. We have a couple young guys in the wings too.

[Joemailman]

Two good points. I can't help but think back to Bishop's first play from scrimmage in replacement of Barnett - too slow to the ball and gives up a TD at Minnesota. Sure, he's more suited to ILB in a 3-4, is a aggressive, good tackler, rushes the passer OK, but maybe the Packers are more worried about pass coverage from their ILB position - and as you suggest, know more than we do about the injury.

Maybe what this all points to is the Packers wanting to play more base 3-4, or a 3-4/4-3 hybrid. If you're going to do that, your ILB's have to be able to cover, and that is more a strength of Jones and Francois than it is of Bishop.

[Guiness]

The way this is playing out is odd. I would also guess that Bishop is not fully healed, and the Packers don't expect him to. Do they only expect him to be a backup going forward, hence the reduced salary? If they think that's his ceiling going forward, I would expect he's a bubble candidate if someone else steps up.

[red]

it just seems odd

it seemed odd during the draft when word came out that they were trying to trade him, and its still odd now

IMO bishop is much better than jones, i just do not have a lot of faith in brad jones ability to be a starting ILB in the NFL

the one ace in the hole could be Manning, like others have said. everything i have read about the guy before and after the draft last year, makes me think that he could have all the tools to been a very good player

i'm also seeing the trend of dumping any player who has had any kind of injury over the last couple of years. sure we need a healthier team, but zero tolerance seems a little extreme

[Fritz]

it just seems odd

it seemed odd during the draft when word came out that they were trying to trade him, and its still odd now

IMO bishop is much better than jones, i just do not have a lot of faith in brad jones ability to be a starting ILB in the NFL

the one ace in the hole could be Manning, like others have said. everything i have read about the guy before and after the draft last year, makes me think that he could have all the tools to been a very good player

i'm also seeing the trend of dumping any player who has had any kind of injury over the last couple of years. sure we need a healthier team, but zero tolerance seems a little extreme


Broke the law= okay

Broke the body= not okay

[3irty1]

Bishop was definitely a playmaker but didn't have a step to lose.

I think Jones gets sold short on here. He'll earn that contract on 3rd downs this year.

[rbaloha1]

That would be fantastic diagnosis if the problem had been the running back on the option. And again, its not a dive.

Bishop was an ILB with Pickett on the LOS and contributed to a terrible run defense in 2011. He isn't a savior. Whatever he does well, its not enough on its own to be a difference maker.

His turnovers (FF) and sacks will be missed more than run D.

Dude it is a dive you dingbat.

Have you ever been in violent collisions attempting to stop teh dive, qb and pitchman? You are just an old washed up prune pretending to know football with continual b.s.:bs::bs:

[pbmax]

Dude it is a dive you dingbat.

Have you ever been in violent collisions attempting to stop teh dive, qb and pitchman? You are just an old washed up prune pretending to know football with continual b.s.:bs::bs:

Washed up perhaps. But still sharp enough to know a dive has no lead blocker and that there is no pitchman in the 49ers read option of last year. Interestingly, several college read option teams have developed a pitch for a true triple option, but it wasn't called by the 49ers. Nor any other pro team I saw.

I guess its your info, from you old wishbone and triple option days, that is dated in 2013.

[woodbuck27]

It the Packers want to get bigger, why would they draft smaller players and hope they get bigger?

Finley got bigger, Pickett got smaller. I'm not seeing a trend.

I think it is fairly obvious to most people that McGinn was completely wrong in his 'inside information' on the direction the Packers were taking. To me its not a big deal, what killed his credibility is his post draft assertion that the Packers traded back trying to not draft Lacy but were eventually forced into taking him. I mean really.


As far as cutting ties with Bishop, I am shocked. We do not have all the info, and here are the possibilities:

1. His injury is going to reduce his ability to play in the Packer's view
2. They like Jones more than many posters do. Personally, I was very impressed with him as a rookie and thought we had a hidden gem. I have cooled on him in subsequent season, not seeing much improvement. But know this - he has the tools to be a very good player.
3. Another player on the roster is expected to emerge. Packers want to get as many reps in for the young pup to get him ready to be an impact player. My bet here would be Terrell Manning who has greatly impressed me. Having a stomach virus that makes you sick as a dog, playing through it, losing 15 lbs, and still playing okay, makes me think if he is healthy he can be impactful.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/desmond-bishop-could-be-released-b9932140z1-211148221.html

The answer to this is in this article.

It looks to me as if Desmond Bishop is simply on the wrong side of the numbers / $numbers$ game. Too many players available to play 2 ILBer positions. The salary he's due is getting restrictive Vs the risk and his past injury. Unless Bishop takes a pay cut, we might very well see him lining up against us on 'D' with the team that Greg Jennings hopes to play for. That in both cases conditional on their health.

Will any team accept a trade at this stage in the game? Won't a team like the Minnesota Vikings with need in the middle at LB; simply watch for Desmond Bishop's possible release; and if really interested in his skills?

PACKERS !

[3irty1]

I'd guess that even if Bishop were cut his chances are slim of being a Viking as long as they're still running Fraiser's defense. Probably no system that would highlight his weaknesses more than a tampa-2 heavy scheme.

[rbaloha1]

Washed up perhaps. But still sharp enough to know a dive has no lead blocker and that there is no pitchman in the 49ers read option of last year. Interestingly, several college read option teams have developed a pitch for a true triple option, but it wasn't called by the 49ers. Nor any other pro team I saw.

I guess its your info, from you old wishbone and triple option days, that is dated in 2013.

Moron -- the dive is the rb hitting the a gaps. You get so caught-up in phraseology to deflect your lack of knowledge.

Dude -- give me your paypal account info for your payout:bang::bang::bang::bang:

[rbaloha1]

I'd guess that even if Bishop were cut his chances are slim of being a Viking as long as they're still running Fraiser's defense. Probably no system that would highlight his weaknesses more than a tampa-2 heavy scheme.

IMO Db can play in any system. Pass coverage skills improved.

[cheesner]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/desmond-bishop-could-be-released-b9932140z1-211148221.html

The answer to this is in this article.



No, there were no answers in the article. From the article:


How much of this decision is based on salary, how much on overcrowding and how much on the injury is up for interpretation.

[woodbuck27]

No, there were no answers in the article. From the article:

I meant it's up to interpretation based on what the article reveals to us. What else, as Packer fans, are we often left with? If you get all the specifics on this now more obvious impending move. To see Ted Thompson actually trade or outright release Desmond Bishop.

Please enlighten us.

PACKERS !

[run pMc]

Not sold on Brad Jones, but in his second year at ILB I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I like Bishop and the attitude he brings to the defense. Maybe they saw something in the OTA's they liked from one of the backups/rookies, but I have to think this is a salary issue, and likely a domino that needs to fall to sign any of: James Jones, Raji, Shields, or Burnett. I also think that for a guy who wasn't great (albeit improving) in coverage, tearing a hamstring won't do you any favors.

Will be sad when they release him. I doubt anyone will trade for him unless there's a bad camp injury.

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

I'll add this video here.

My interpretation is that Desmond Bishop's $3.464 Million$ salary (due); is a huge factor in this news of him very possibly not any longer being a Green Bay Packer. TT isn't going to pay a very possible back-up that kind of money. That coupled with the possibility he won't accept a pay cut, will very likely spell his release.

I can't see this man lasting long on the market as a FA. That is if or when TT releases him. He and his agent simply have to convince some NFL team that he can still make an impact. The fact that he's 'only' 28 years old will be a factor in his favor.

Somehow I hope that Desmond Bishop can change this news. That he will do what's necessary to remain a Green Bay Packer. That the Packers and he concede to one another.

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20130613/PKR01/306130305/Video-Wes-Pete-Bishop-s-situation-offseason-work-Coleman?odyssey=mod|lateststories

PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Moron -- the dive is the rb hitting the a gaps. You get so caught-up in phraseology to deflect your lack of knowledge.

Dude -- give me your paypal account info for your payout:bang::bang::bang::bang:

Wrong again. No offense runs a play to an 'A' gap. That's a defense's term for space around the center. And that is not the definition of a dive, though it might be the most common target.

All but one of the 49er read options plays were Gore over the tackle. The other was run right to Raji when he was a 3 tech. Whether it was guard-center gap or guard-tackle was hard to tell from the sideline camera.

They didn't run a dive that hurt the Packers.

No Pay Pal info until you prove you are a Nigerian Prince.

[woodbuck27]

Wrong again. No offense runs a play to an 'A' gap. That's a defense's term for space around the center. And that is not the definition of a dive, though it might be the most common target.

All but one of the 49er read options plays were Gore over the tackle. The other was run right to Raji when he was a 3 tech. Whether it was guard-center gap or guard-tackle was hard to tell from the sideline camera.

They didn't run a dive that hurt the Packers.

No Pay Pal info until you prove you are a Nigerian Prince.

pb....your going to have to get used to the no ... 'repost reflex'.

It'll take you some time to get over 'the twitch'. A few nights of eight hours rest should help. After that see your personal doctor.

[Guiness]

Jones got starter money without ever really being a starter, except as spot duty. He is the highest paid of the ILBs, isn't he?

[Joemailman]

Jones got starter money without ever really being a starter, except as spot duty. He is the highest paid of the ILBs, isn't he?

He did start 10 games last year, and was 3rd on the team in tackles. Would have been 2nd if he'd started all year. Not bad for a guy who had just switched positions. Apparently the Packers liked what they saw, and think he will get better. Hawk still makes more than Jones though.

[wist43]

Don't know what to make of this... it's either the injury, or he's been grumbling about Capers, ala Woodson. Bishop wasn't a world beater by any means, but at least he was tough - maybe that's what turns TT off about him??

No matter what, it seems painfully obvious that TT is committed to mediocrity at ILB. Jones is just a slug - next play he makes will be his first.

[falco]

I recall reading sometime last year that Jones had really found his place in the middle and played quite well.

Still a shocker about Bishop though. Apparently all the rumors around draft time were true.

[Pugger]

If these reports about Bishop and the Packers parting ways is true what is the holdup? Unless he is still hurting I would think he would have been traded or released by now ala Woodson.

[woodbuck27]

If these reports about Bishop and the Packers parting ways is true what is the holdup? Unless he is still hurting I would think he would have been traded or released by now ala Woodson.

TT is hoping for a trade.

[hoosier]

If these reports about Bishop and the Packers parting ways is true what is the holdup? Unless he is still hurting I would think he would have been traded or released by now ala Woodson.

My first reaction was kind of the opposite: why announce you're cutting ties with Bishop in June, why not wait until training camp and see what he's capable of? The only reasons not to wait until camp are (a) they know they don't want him as a starter even if his rehab went well; (b) they are pretty certain he will be a re-injury risk and don't want to take the chance that he blows out the tendon in camp and then they're liable for his 2013 salary. If I had to bet I would say it is (b).

[denverYooper]

TT is hoping for a trade.

Or trying to use the report as negotiating leverage. Maybe they're just trying to re-work his contract to add some injury protections for the team.

[pittstang5]

I thought the Draft day rumors of trying to move Bishop might just be that - rumors. Now this. Two things come to mind as to why the Packers are looking to dump Bishop and they've already been covered - Injury or salary. I'm guessing the two might play into each other. If he's still hurt or can't go 100% - why pay him to sit.

Bishop is a thumper, something the Packers lack, considerably. Woodson liked to lay the wood and Collins would make a big hit here and there. Two of those three are gone with Bishop on his way out the door. I can't think of anyone else on the current roster that will strike fear, except maybe CMIII.

Packers need some thugs.

[pittstang5]

TT is hoping for a trade.

If they are looking to move Bishop, I'd be hoping for a trade too, but what's a ILB that tore a pretty significant tendon and didn't cover that well prior to the injury worth.

As Packer fans, we see our players worth alot more than what everyone else does. Hell, give me a couple drinks, and I'll tell ya Jarret Bush is worth at least a 2nd rounder from his special team skills alone.

IMO, Bishop is worth nothing unless he comes to TC and lights it up - but if he does, why trade him. The Packers must be dead set on getting rid of Bishop. If he's released and can play, he'll be in purple - no doubt about that.

[woodbuck27]

My first reaction was kind of the opposite: why announce you're cutting ties with Bishop in June, why not wait until training camp and see what he's capable of? The only reasons not to wait until camp are (a) they know they don't want him as a starter even if his rehab went well; (b) they are pretty certain he will be a re-injury risk and don't want to take the chance that he blows out the tendon in camp and then they're liable for his 2013 salary. If I had to bet I would say it is (b).

It seems to me if your correct. Desmond Bishop would have been already released. I believe that TT is ethical (he cannot be traded unless checked out as a limited risk) and yet TT see's value in Desmond Bishop. If a decent trade possibility came up for DB... then TT would consider such.

Otherwise... TT's hoping for some movement in terms of Desmond Bishop's salary coming back to the Green Bay Packers.

When is Desmond Bishop's $3.46 million$ due?

PACKERS !

GO PACK GO !

[Smeefers]

I just looked at Jones and Bishop's stats and well.. they're pretty comparable.

I think someone here said it best, Bishop couldn't afford to loose a step and he probably has, which makes him expendable.

I don't understand there are people out there who are acting like Jones is just God awful. I didn't have high expectations for him last year, but he didn't seem to play too bad. I wouldn't call our Inside Linebacking core a strength of this team, but it's not going to get you beat week in and week out.

I definitely don't see this as odd. The packers have released guys this early time and time again. Usually we're praising them for letting the guy have a chance to get on with another team before the season starts.

[Pugger]

If indeed we wanted to trade him it is probably too late for that now. If I were a GM of a team in need a of LBer why would I now make a deal with TT when I can get him for 'free' if I wait? I too suspect we're either trying to renegotiate with Bishop and his agent or he isn't yet 100% so we are waiting until he is before we waive him.

[Carolina_Packer]

If the situation is where it's rumored to be with the Packers wanting to either trade him or make him take a reduced a salary in order to remain with the team to keep his cap number in line, couldn't that also indicate that they have some other guys, perhaps Terrell Manning, Sam Barrington, Robert Francois, Jamari Lattimore that they are comfortable moving forward with?

For somewhat different reasons, but still related to money/health, the Pack let Greg Jennings walk, but I get in this case it's not about re-signing, but about reducing the cap number. In both cases the team seems comfortable with who they have competing at that position. They even got rid of D.J. Smith, who, while not a fantastic player, was serviceable. I think others have pointed out on the board that Packers seem less willing to wait around on certain injured players, obviously and especially when they have a higher cap number.

[woodbuck27]

I just looked at Jones and Bishop's stats and well.. they're pretty comparable.

I think someone here said it best, Bishop couldn't afford to loose a step and he probably has, which makes him expendable.

I don't understand there are people out there who are acting like Jones is just God awful. I didn't have high expectations for him last year, but he didn't seem to play too bad. I wouldn't call our Inside Linebacking core a strength of this team, but it's not going to get you beat week in and week out.

I definitely don't see this as odd. The packers have released guys this early time and time again. Usually we're praising them for letting the guy have a chance to get on with another team before the season starts.

I personally had a load of hope that having a healthy Desmond Bishop back would make us more imposing in the front seven. Thus this (rumor... still) surprizes me. I think other Packer fans are having a similar take.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

If indeed we wanted to trade him it is probably too late for that now. If I were a GM of a team in need a of LBer why would I now make a deal with TT when I can get him for 'free' if I wait? I too suspect we're either trying to renegotiate with Bishop and his agent or he isn't yet 100% so we are waiting until he is before we waive him.

Yes.

PACKERS !

[falco]

I was also shocked when they released the short dude, can't remember his name at the moment.

Seems to me it either indicates a new caution around injuries (has Bishop had previous injuries?) or, probably more likely, a change in direction at the position.

[pbmax]

I was also shocked when they released the short dude, can't remember his name at the moment.

Seems to me it either indicates a new caution around injuries (has Bishop had previous injuries?) or, probably more likely, a change in direction at the position.

DJ Smith. Yes, I think the number of bodies there (as well as the contracts involved) has a lot to do with it.

[packer4life]

I recall reading sometime last year that Jones had really found his place in the middle and played quite well.

Still a shocker about Bishop though. Apparently all the rumors around draft time were true.

Damn right they were true. After thinking a good deal about the Bishop situation, I have realized that it's painfully clear that Bishop's injury was worse than expected. Tearing a hamstring through and through , as in a full muscle tear, can be repaired and can heal due to increased overall tissue vascularity. On the other hand, tearing the tendon, i.e. the attachment of connective tissue to bone anchoring the muscle, will be a greater hurdle. The latter injury would render Bishop essentially the equivalent of Hawk/Jones. At ~$3.5 mill, I think you make the cut if you can't trade...

[woodbuck27]

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/6/15/4432620/oakland-raiders-friday-mailbag-if-desmond-bishop-is-cut-could-raiders-be

Raiders Friday mailbag: If Desmond Bishop is cut could Raiders be interested?

By: Levi Damien on Jun 15 2013, 2:23 AM

Eli writes:

" I just read that the Green Bay Packers are close to cutting LB Desmond Bishop. Although we're deep at linebacker, do you see Oakland possibly going after him, with the McKenzie ties and him being a Bay Area native?

I could certainly see that signing. He has played inside linebacker for the Packers and the Raiders don't have a solid option behind Nick Roach in the middle. Currently they have Travis Goethel, who is currently and chronically injured, and UDFA rookie Billy Boyko as the depth. Bishop would be an upgrade to either of them and any linebacker in Green Bay we know has the Reggie McKenzie seal of approval...." Fr. LINK above

There's more in this article if your interested in the Oakland Raiders.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/6/13/4426020/replacing-desmond-bishop-packers-depth

Replacing Desmond Bishop: Packers Look to Young Linebackers for Depth

By: Eric Balkman on Jun 13 2013, 8:00 AM  @EricBalkman

" ... Perhaps no sport exemplifies the "next man up" philosophy better than professional football, And the Green Bay Packers are exemplifying it now with a new starting inside linebacker. With the potential release of Desmond Bishop — coming off a season-ending ruptured hamstring injury — the Packers are expected to insert "next man up" Brad Jones in the middle alongside veteran A.J. Hawk. ....

( Desmond) Bishop was a clear-cut, ready-made NFL starter with a few years of backup experience under his belt when the Packers needed him to fill former linebacker Nick Barnett’s starting spot. This year Green Bay does not have the luxury of having that next star waiting behind the starters. Jones is not the thumper that a healthy Bishop was, and yet he stands head and shoulders above the backup inside linebackers on this team. As long as Jones stays healthy, the Packers won’t remain completely soft in the middle, but if either he or Hawk goes down, Green Bay will probably run into the same issues they had last year in trying to stop the run. Thompson is still looking for the real "next man up" at inside linebacker, but he may have to wait until the 2014 NFL Draft to select him. " Fr. LINK above

Please click on LINK for much more.

GO PACKERS !

[Carolina_Packer]

Former Packer "Capologist" Andrew Brandt wrote a recent article for Sports Illustrated that talks about what is related to the issue of Bishop and players like that getting squeezed, although I know he's referring to guys looking for work, but Bishop is just on the other side of the process; being on a team, but being forced to take the pay cut or be waived. I would love to see any article written by an established vet on the market who now calls BS on the owners for their "promise" that the 2011 CBA would lead to the vets getting more money. Click here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1207660/index.htm) for the link to the Brandt article.

[pbmax]

Former Packer "Capologist" Andrew Brandt wrote a recent article for Sports Illustrated that talks about what is related to the issue of Bishop and players like that getting squeezed, although I know he's referring to guys looking for work, but Bishop is just on the other side of the process; being on a team, but being forced to take the pay cut or be waived. I would love to see any article written by an established vet on the market who now calls BS on the owners for their "promise" that the 2011 CBA would lead to the vets getting more money. Click here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1207660/index.htm) for the link to the Brandt article.

The entire idea that a rookie salary cap or more restrictive slotting system would lead to more money for vets was one of the dumbest ideas ever to be floated. Even with the cap having gone up (minimally at times, after the first year's regression) the money doesn't necessarily flow where people think it will. Its the fallacy of people expecting others to behave as they would and not accounting for diverging interests.

[Guiness]

The entire idea that a rookie salary cap or more restrictive slotting system would lead to more money for vets was one of the dumbest ideas ever to be floated. Even with the cap having gone up (minimally at times, after the first year's regression) the money doesn't necessarily flow where people think it will. Its the fallacy of people expecting others to behave as they would and not accounting for diverging interests.

Something strange has happened to be sure. The money that the first round picks were getting seems to have flowed to QBs to support the $20M contracts. As a knock on effect, money from mid-level vets seems to have joined the flow as teams try to keep up...for instance, there was NO reason for Romo to get the deal he did - averaging $18M/year. He could've been had for $15M, max, but JJ had to prove he can pay as much for a QB as anyone else.

[Smeefers]

The increase pay to QB's may also have resulted from rule changes that made this a pass first league. With the QB being so very important these days, it's only natural that they would demand so much more money.

[woodbuck27]

The increase pay to QB's may also have resulted from rule changes that made this a pass first league. With the QB being so very important these days, it's only natural that they would demand so much more money.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/friendly-nfl-climate-great-quarterbacks-spark-rise-passing-statistics/23039/

Friendly NFL Climate, Great Quarterbacks Spark Rise in Passing Statistics

Cold, Hard Football Facts for Jun 11, 2013

" It is no secret that passing statistics continue to rise in the NFL.

Rather than credit it to rule changes, there is an easy argument to be made that today’s quarterbacks are just better and mainly responsible for this higher level of play.

Not only did efficiency hit record levels in 2012 with a league-wide 85.6 passer rating and 2.63 interception percentage, but the volume did as well. Teams set records by averaging 21.2 completions and 231.3 net passing yards per game.

Teams also passed on 57.5 percent of plays last year, which is the highest pass ratio in NFL history." Fr. LINK above

GO PACKERS !

[King Friday]

The entire idea that a rookie salary cap or more restrictive slotting system would lead to more money for vets was one of the dumbest ideas ever to be floated.

Not really. It is true...except for the fact they let off two little letters after the word vets.

QB

Veteran QBs will get more money. Few others will.

[CaliforniaCheez]

This is why twitter is such a bad thing. Bad information spreads like a disease.

Step back a bit and don't get contaminated.


Teams are always checking on talent and teams with surplus talent are discussing amongst themselves trade possibilities/prices/costs etc. 90% of such discussions result in nothing happening.

Sometimes vulture teams leak things like this to lower the asking price.

I think many can outgrow susceptibility to this Twitter Panic Syndrome.

[pbmax]

Bishop gone.

@Debishop55

So much fun, so many memories & friendships forged in Green Bay. Ups & downs, wins & losses! Even a XLV championship. Forever grateful #Pack

[Guiness]

That's that I guess...end of the speculation.

Quite the story. Replaces an injured Nick Barnett, plays incredibly well and is rewarded with a nice new 4 year contract after the season. Plays one year on it, injures himself the following pre-season and is released before ever taking the field again.

I wonder if he'll catch on anywhere? Have to think he will.

[Joemailman]

I wonder if he'll catch on anywhere? Have to think he will.

Sure. Just not for the kind of money his contract here called for.

[Rutnstrut]

This is going to bite them in the ass, assuming Bishop's injury isn't career ending. Jones isn't even a fraction of the player Bishop is.

[denverYooper]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 13m

The #Packers have made Desmond Bishop's release official.

[pbmax]

Wilde talked to Bishop and he said he is visiting the Vikings tomorrow, but you probably guessed that already :lol:

Also, Bishop said he was being traded or released. Not talk of contract renegotiation.

[Joemailman]

Wilde talked to Bishop and he said he is visiting the Vikings tomorrow, but you probably guessed that already :lol:

Not until tomorrow? He's no Darren Sharper.

[Carolina_Packer]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/211852741.html Looks like he took the high road in his comments about being released. Whether that was him making a good PR move not to look bitter when hitting the open market or his natural personality, it's a smart move to not bash the Packers decision. Again, he saw the writing on the wall as he said. Why would you give starter money to Jones and then make him a backup? Why would you bring Bishop back making starter money and make him a backup. I wish Desmond well. He was a productive player before his injury. I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign with the Vikes, assuming he passes a physical. During the draft, they talked about them needing to draft an ILB. I'd be in favor of him testing the market and coming back if the compensation is not to his liking. I hope the Packers would consider having him back.

[wist43]

Our ILB's are such a mess... can't begin to imagine what TT is thinking by giving big $$ to Jones and Hawk. Although it's perfectly in keeping with his requirement that ILB's be as pedestrian as possible.

Hawk and Jones combined for how many "impact plays"?? Zero - sign those guys up!!!

Absolutely headscratching stuff.

[pbmax]

Twitter disagreement:

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 23m
#Packers wanted Bishop to take major pay cut few months ago - by about 2/3.

[pbmax]

Our ILB's are such a mess... can't begin to imagine what TT is thinking by giving big $$ to Jones and Hawk. Although it's perfectly in keeping with his requirement that ILB's be as pedestrian as possible.

Hawk and Jones combined for how many "impact plays"?? Zero - sign those guys up!!!

Absolutely headscratching stuff.

Hard to make an impact from sideline. Bishop tweaked his hamstring muscle while rehabbing his surgically repaired tendon. That is why he couldn't go at OTAs. I think Jones will be able to rush QB from inside, not sure about forced fumbles. Bishop had 5 of each last full season I believe. But let's not forget, Bishop was part and parcel of the worst Packer defense in, what, 20, 30 years? He's a part and not irreplaceable.

[Brandon494]

Huge mistake IMO.

[Pugger]

Bishop was never a speed demon so maybe he lost step after the injury and that may be the real reason for this move. It isn't a good sign that he didn't participate in any of the offseason activities either.

[wist43]

Hard to make an impact from sideline. Bishop tweaked his hamstring muscle while rehabbing his surgically repaired tendon. That is why he couldn't go at OTAs. I think Jones will be able to rush QB from inside, not sure about forced fumbles. Bishop had 5 of each last full season I believe. But let's not forget, Bishop was part and parcel of the worst Packer defense in, what, 20, 30 years? He's a part and not irreplaceable.

I don't necessarily have a problem with releasing Bishop; but overpaying Jones, not drafting any ILB'er help, not signing (of course) any ILB'er help, and releasing Bishop... all of that combined is just mind-numbing.

I see ILB as a completely dead position for us, and wanted to address it in one way or another - and wouldn't have even minded going small, ala Arthur Brown. The guy I really wanted in there was Sio Moore.

If not seeking an upgrade thru a couple of guys like that, my 2nd option would have been to take a bigger guy that might have been able to make the move. Any which way, I wanted more speed, or toughness, or flexibility, or something - anything, that might have been able to give us a different look there that could be schemed to take advantage of. As it is, we're so pedestrian at the position that we might as well go ahead and cut 'em all, save the cap space, and throw some bartenders in there.

I fear Capers is having a lot of say in personnel decisions - and that can only serve to hurt our defense even after he's fired.

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

Well that seems about what many suspected. Packers don't want you. The Vikings very well might.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2013/06/17/desmond-bishop-release/2432259/

Linebacker Desmond Bishop released by Packers


Mike Garafolo, USA TODAY Sports 4:25 p.m. EDT June 17, 2013


The Green Bay Packers and Desmond Bishop could not agree on a restructured contract, so the veteran linebacker was released Monday, the team announced.

" An hour before the official announcement, Bishop leaked the move on his Twitter account:

"So much fun, so many memories & friendships forged in Green Bay," Bishop tweeted. "Ups & downs, wins & losses! Even a XLV championship. Forever grateful #Pack"...

Bishop's first visit is expected to be with the Vikings ...

... Bishop has insisted he is healthy enough to return, but the Packers appear to ready to move forward with Brad Jones as the inside linebacker next to A.J. Hawk.

Along with Minnesota, a possible landing spot already being mentioned is Kansas City, where new Chiefs general manager John Dorsey has set up shop. Dorsey was with the Packers when they drafted Bishop in the sixth round in 2007. " Fr. LINK above and click on LINK for the entire story.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/desmond-bishop-could-be-released-b9932140z1-211148221.html

The answer to this is in this article.

It looks to me as if Desmond Bishop is simply on the wrong side of the numbers / $numbers$ game. Too many players available to play 2 ILBer positions. The salary he's due is getting restrictive Vs the risk and his past injury. Unless Bishop takes a pay cut, we might very well see him lining up against us on 'D' with the team that Greg Jennings hopes to play for. That in both cases conditional on their health.

Will any team accept a trade at this stage in the game? Won't a team like the Minnesota Vikings with need in the middle at LB; simply watch for Desmond Bishop's possible release; and if really interested in his skills?

PACKERS !


http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/6/17/4439306/desmond-bishop-release-vikings-packers-raiders-chiefs-falcons

Desmond Bishop already drawing interest following release

By Mark Sandritter on Jun 17 2013, 5:00p  @MarkSandritter +

Comment woodbuck27:

The above article names five NFL teams that may have an interest in the services of Desmond Bishop. It will be interesting to see how long he lasts on the market and what he's signed for.

I hope that TT didn't make this move prematurely. I'm guessing TT feels he has the right pieces in place to have a solid competition in the middle of our OL. Did TT feel that That Desmond Bishop was a high risk or otherwise not able to compete in the middle of our OL ... so, 'no loss'?

Could it be that TT needs CAP space to extend BJ Raji ? If so isn't that premature? What is TT's position and Ryan Pickett and other men on our OL who might be FA's next year? Is this release related to any of that?

He's giving Mike Neal a chance at OLB and some flexibility there but back to Desmond Bishop.

What was TT's rush in releasing him? Especially considering that we are aware that TT was at least rumored to be trying to trade Desmond Bishop.

This move just seems strange to me. It's one of those... 'it'll take time' things, I'm guessing. Another TT thing. He's a tough man to read.

GO PACKERS !

[red]

shit

knew it was coming

but, shit

[red]

I don't necessarily have a problem with releasing Bishop; but overpaying Jones, not drafting any ILB'er help, not signing (of course) any ILB'er help, and releasing Bishop... all of that combined is just mind-numbing.



gotta agree. seems like we knew at draft time that dj smith and bishop were both gonna be gone

we needed to address the position. overspending on jones, IMO, was not the answer

its just another of those TT moves that makes absolutely no sense at the time they happen. lets hope it works out like most of the others and turns out to be the right move

now, we've already dumped about 10 players this year with lots of talent. what the fuck is it gonna take to get rid of bush?

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/57224/money-desmond-bishop-and-nfc-north

Money, Desmond Bishop and NFC North

June, 17, 2013 4:15 PM ET By Kevin Seifert | ESPN.com

" Nor would it be a stunner if the Vikings pursue Bishop via free agency, as Wes Hodkiewicz reported. Of course, the Vikings are an easy target for an agent hoping to drum up support for an inside linebacker. Their starter at middle linebacker at the moment is Erin Henderson, who has played on the outside for his entire career, and that move surfaced only after the Vikings failed to find a new starter in the draft.

Bishop would be making the mild conversion from a 3-4 inside linebacker to a 4-3 middle linebacker, but that shift isn't as dramatic as the one Henderson is attempting. The Vikings open their mandatory minicamp Tuesday, and let's just say the welcome mat from Green Bay to Minnesota is well-worn.

While we're at it, let's not totally rule out the possibility of the Chicago Bears -- who aren't exactly set at middle linebacker themselves after the retirement of Brian Urlacher -- at least kicking Bishop's tires. Stay tuned." Fr. LINK above

Please click on LINK for the rest of the story.

PACKERS !

[Smeefers]

gotta agree. seems like we knew at draft time that dj smith and bishop were both gonna be gone

we needed to address the position. overspending on jones, IMO, was not the answer

its just another of those TT moves that makes absolutely no sense at the time they happen. lets hope it works out like most of the others and turns out to be the right move

now, we've already dumped about 10 players this year with lots of talent. what the fuck is it gonna take to get rid of bush?

I thought we went over this years ago, Bush has some pictures of MM and TT making out in Favres old locker. The dude's never getting out of here.

I'm not terrified of Hawk/Jones. I just don't know who we have waiting in the wings behind them. As far as I can tell, that Manning kid might have some juice... and that's about it. Our entire LB core is not very deep. I like Perry and Mathews... but good god, who's behind them on the depth chart? I couldn't name them without looking them up.

[Bretsky]

gotta agree. seems like we knew at draft time that dj smith and bishop were both gonna be gone

we needed to address the position. overspending on jones, IMO, was not the answer

its just another of those TT moves that makes absolutely no sense at the time they happen. lets hope it works out like most of the others and turns out to be the right move

now, we've already dumped about 10 players this year with lots of talent. what the fuck is it gonna take to get rid of bush?

Agree with Wist and Red; at starters now we may be stuck with JustaguyJones and I am what I am in AJ Hawk. Bush not even be our weakest starter, if he started Red. Thankfully there are many in front of him.

[Old School]

If the Packers purged their locker room of an STD, the Vikings would be welcoming it into their locker room the next day.

[packer4life]

Does his release give us any salary benefit this year? Is it being done to afford an important future or near future resigning? These are the questions in my head at the moment.

[Joemailman]

Does his release give us any salary benefit this year? Is it being done to afford an important future or near future resigning? These are the questions in my head at the moment.

Looks like it will save about 2 mil on the cap this year and almost 5 mil next year.

[pbmax]

Does his release give us any salary benefit this year? Is it being done to afford an important future or near future resigning? These are the questions in my head at the moment.


YEAR BASE S. BONUS MISC. CAP HIT DEAD
2011 1,188,000 800,000 1,500,000 3,488,000 -
2012 3,001,000 800,000 500,000 4,301,000 -
2013 3,464,000 800,000 500,000 4,764,000 1,800,000
2014 3,522,000 800,000 500,000 4,822,000 800,000

The rules on salary cap acceleration changed so that I think the team can designate a player's contract as post June 1st at almost any time.

So if they do that, the hits are $1.0 mil in 2013 and $800,000 in 2014.

Cap savings in 2013 would be approx $3.7 mil. 2014 would be $4 mil. If they accelerate it all in 2013, savings are $2.9 mil and $4.8 mil in 2014.

[packer4life]

YEAR BASE S. BONUS MISC. CAP HIT DEAD
2011 1,188,000 800,000 1,500,000 3,488,000 -
2012 3,001,000 800,000 500,000 4,301,000 -
2013 3,464,000 800,000 500,000 4,764,000 1,800,000
2014 3,522,000 800,000 500,000 4,822,000 800,000

The rules on salary cap acceleration changed so that I think the team can designate a player's contract as post June 1st at almost any time.

So if they do that, the hits are $1.0 mil in 2013 and $800,000 in 2014.

Cap savings in 2013 would be approx $3.7 mil. 2014 would be $4 mil. If they accelerate it all in 2013, savings are $2.9 mil and $4.8 mil in 2014.

Looks like we are trimming the fat.

[Joemailman]

Looks like we are trimming the fat.

Jones, Finley, Raji, Pickett and Burnett all set to be FA in 2014. Can't be paying 4-5 million for a backup ILB.

[mraynrand]

what the fuck is it gonna take to get rid of bush?

someone will have to play better than him on teams, and provide some value on the depth chart.

[3irty1]

I'm not sure if this move is about Jones or if its about Bishop.

Bishop hasn't done football in a year now. Maybe I'm in denial but it's hard for me to believe the Packers are just too impatient to deal with Bishop. Its at least clear that Bishop is drastically underselling his injury. I think if he were truly 100% it seems like a trade could get done. I expect him to become a Raven.

Jones got his 4M for the same reason Ellerbe got his 7M. Guy just had a really good year of being pressed into service but its not like he's a $7M splashy playmaker either, but he's got wheels and is fluid in coverage. Ellerbe is a lot more proven, especially as a blitzer... but these guys are the same in what they are getting paid for: they are money on 3rd downs and serviceable the rest of the time. A year from now we could be thankful that Jones only got 10 games at MLB before resigning. He's a big upgrade in speed for the middle of the field and makes for some different possibilities. I won't blame Capers for not wanting to go back to having seams covered by Hawk, Bishop, Walden, Woodson, and Peprah. All that slow makes it tough to cover the field. Let's see how they use Jones before we call him overpaid.

[Rutnstrut]

Jones is waaay over paid, releasing Bishop was a mistake, Bishop at 70% is better than Jones at 110%. For every awesome move TT makes there's ones like this that hurt this team and move it backwards.

[3irty1]

Jones is waaay over paid, releasing Bishop was a mistake, Bishop at 70% is better than Jones at 110%. For every awesome move TT makes there's ones like this that hurt this team and move it backwards.

Issue is that if Bishop's legs are at 70% then the rest of Bishop is at 30%. Guy does not have a step to lose at all.

[Rutnstrut]

Issue is that if Bishop's legs are at 70% then the rest of Bishop is at 30%. Guy does not have a step to lose at all.

True enough, but Jones is NOT the answer.

[Packers4Glory]

hopefully Jones is just keeping the spot warm for a few weeks until someone is ready to step in and make a true impact.

[denverYooper]

I think people here might be underselling Jones just a tad.

[run pMc]

Hard to make an impact from sideline. Bishop tweaked his hamstring muscle while rehabbing his surgically repaired tendon. That is why he couldn't go at OTAs. I think Jones will be able to rush QB from inside, not sure about forced fumbles. Bishop had 5 of each last full season I believe. But let's not forget, Bishop was part and parcel of the worst Packer defense in, what, 20, 30 years? He's a part and not irreplaceable.

I admit I'm not a fan of dumping Bishop, but I have to agree with you...when I heard about the 'tweaking' of his leg, that probably was an indication Bishop is overselling, and rightfully so: he wants his job back (and a paycheck). Also, if he can't get/stay healthy, which he's not (yet), he can't play or practice and he's not as valueable as Jones or Hawk in that regard. The cap relief is probably not as important as his health/availability and his impact on locker room chemistry -- I suspect his unhappiness in the past at sitting behind Barnett played into this. Nobody knows (except Bishop and his trainer) if he can run anymore, and he likely can't cover as well as Jones can.


I don't necessarily have a problem with releasing Bishop; but overpaying Jones, not drafting any ILB'er help, not signing (of course) any ILB'er help, and releasing Bishop... all of that combined is just mind-numbing.


Oh, I don't know. They have Manning from last year and drafted Barrington this year. They also have Francois. Don't recall if Lattimore is ILB or OLB, but assuming he's OLB that's still 5 players for two ILB spots.

Looks like I'm trying to talk myself into being ok with this. My feeling is that TT is releasing him a year early, but I think ultimately it's the right call. Can't see Minny signing him -- Finley, Pettigrew, and a host of TE's would eat him alive down the seam in their Cover-2 scheme. They let Brinkley go, and he was a sledgehammer...I have doubts Bishop would be an upgrade in that defense. Someone will pick him up quick...Ravens, Raiders, etc.

[pbmax]

Jones will be the dime linebacker, no doubt about that now. He has a lot of room to improve after being serviceable on 1st and 2nd down. That is where someone could claim a job.

[Smidgeon]

A few years back, I was high on three players who I thought were underappreciated or hadn't yet had an opportunity to shine. Quinn Johnson, Andrew Quarless, and Brad Jones.

I liked what Q "The Hammer" Johnson brought, but he wasn't effective enough to stick in a non-run heavy offense. He's currently blocking for Chris "Ima gonna get 3000 yards this year...in 10 games" Johnson.

I still like Quarless and his skill set. He isn't quite Finley talented, but he's in the next tier, and I'm still interested to see what he can do.

I was impressed with Brad Jones as a rookie. He stepped in for Kampman when he tore his ACL and put up 4 sacks from the OLB position as a rookie opposite Matthews. In fact, there was one game where both rookies at the OLB had 2 sacks apiece. I thought that was pretty spectacular and expected better things from Jones. Then...he kind of disappeared. So I didn't know what to expect. And the position shuffle is usually an opportunity for a player to not get cut. So I was surprised when he came in as a third MLB last year. And to be honest, I still don't know what to expect. I've grown less and less expectant about him after his rookie year. So who knows.

[woodbuck27]

A few years back, I was high on three players who I thought were underappreciated or hadn't yet had an opportunity to shine. Quinn Johnson, Andrew Quarless, and Brad Jones.

I liked what Q "The Hammer" Johnson brought, but he wasn't effective enough to stick in a non-run heavy offense. He's currently blocking for Chris "Ima gonna get 3000 yards this year...in 10 games" Johnson.

I still like Quarless and his skill set. He isn't quite Finley talented, but he's in the next tier, and I'm still interested to see what he can do.

I was impressed with Brad Jones as a rookie. He stepped in for Kampman when he tore his ACL and put up 4 sacks from the OLB position as a rookie opposite Matthews. In fact, there was one game where both rookies at the OLB had 2 sacks apiece. I thought that was pretty spectacular and expected better things from Jones. Then...he kind of disappeared. So I didn't know what to expect. And the position shuffle is usually an opportunity for a player to not get cut. So I was surprised when he came in as a third MLB last year. And to be honest, I still don't know what to expect. I've grown less and less expectant about him after his rookie year. So who knows.

This has come up before I believe but all the same I'll post it, for what it may be worth!?:

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/5/24/4361842/packers-brad-jones-staying-at-inside-linebacker

Why the Packers Will Keep Linebacker Brad Jones Inside

By Evan "Tex" Western on May 24 2013, 11:00 AM  @TexWestern

" Pro Football Focus named Jones the team's "Secret Superstar" for 2012, and I can't find a fault with that assessment. He came out of obscurity to become the team's most complete inside linebacker..." Fr. LINK

Comment woodbuck27:

Many Packer fans have disagreed with this observation; yet somehow Ted Thompson doesn't. It'll simply be an interesting watch for me.

GO PACKERS !

[RashanGary]

Why the Packers Will Keep Linebacker Brad Jones Inside

By Evan "Tex" Western on May 24 2013, 11:00 AM  @TexWestern

" Pro Football Focus named Jones the team's "Secret Superstar" for 2012, and I can't find a fault with that assessment. He came out of obscurity to become the team's most complete inside linebacker..." Fr. LINK

Comment woodbuck27:

Many Packer fans have disagreed with this observation; yet somehow Ted Thompson doesn't. It'll simply be an interesting watch for me.

GO PACKERS !

I'm interested too. Just at a glance, I like his ability to cover like a safety yet play linebacker like a linebacker. In a league where wins and losses are determined so much by match ups, it's nice to have a guy who can match up against RBs who can also pose as passing weapons.

I also think he has some untapped pass rush talent. His college tape was pretty impressive as a pass rusher. I want to say he had 5 sacks in 10 games or so as a rookie too.

I'm curious to see how he does. I have some hope.

[bobblehead]

I was once very high on Chillar, even saying he was the answer opposite Clay. They tried to use the weird package where he played big safety and it was mixed, then he tore a hammy and goodnight Irene. I feel very much the same about Jones. I see most of the same skills and weakness. He is better vs. the pass as both rusher and cover guy, and serviceable vs. the run, but definately not good enough yet. I just hope he doesn't tear a hammy.

[The Shadow]

The lesson here?
The Packers view the 49ers & Seahawks as the teams they must cope with - and quicker, flowing linebackers play into that (altho Hawk is a bit puzzling).
The Falcons, with Steven jackson, & the Vikings, with Peterson, must not be viewed of as much of a threat.
I think we may see a lot of Jones & Manning this year in 2nd & long, & 3rd & long situations.

[woodbuck27]

I don't necessarily have a problem with releasing Bishop; but overpaying Jones, not drafting any ILB'er help, not signing (of course) any ILB'er help, and releasing Bishop... all of that combined is just mind-numbing.

I see ILB as a completely dead position for us, and wanted to address it in one way or another - and wouldn't have even minded going small, ala Arthur Brown. The guy I really wanted in there was Sio Moore.

If not seeking an upgrade thru a couple of guys like that, my 2nd option would have been to take a bigger guy that might have been able to make the move. Any which way, I wanted more speed, or toughness, or flexibility, or something - anything, that might have been able to give us a different look there that could be schemed to take advantage of. As it is, we're so pedestrian at the position that we might as well go ahead and cut 'em all, save the cap space, and throw some bartenders in there.

I fear Capers is having a lot of say in personnel decisions - and that can only serve to hurt our defense even after he's fired.

" I see ILB as a completely dead position for us, and wanted to address it in one way or another - and wouldn't have even minded going small, ala Arthur Brown. The guy I really wanted in there was ** Sio Moore. " wist43

** The Oakland Raiders chose Sio Moore ( 6' - 1" - 245 lbs ... out of Connecticut) in the third round, pick #66 overall in the 2013 NFL Draft. Sio Moore played for the Connecticut Huskies football team from 2008 to 2012.

Sio Moore totaled 274 tackles, 16 quarterback sacks and four interceptions. Following his senior season in 2012, he was a first-team All-Big East Conference selection, and was invited to play in both the East-West Shrine Game and the Senior Bowl.


ILB Arthur Brown a 6'-0" 241 lb LB. played college football for Kansas State University, and earned All-American honors. The Baltimore Ravens chose him in the second round of the 2013 NFL Draft (#56 pick overall).

Arthur Brown was a highly recruited Univ. of Miami Hurricanes xfer to KSU in 2010. He made an instant impact aa a Kansas State Wildcat, as he had 95 tackles, 2 sacks and 1 interception. In the 2012 season, Brown won the 2012 Big 12 Conference Defensive Player of the Year award (91 T's, 2 picks (one was returned for a touchdown), six TFL and one sack).

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

I'm interested too. Just at a glance, I like his ability to cover like a safety yet play linebacker like a linebacker. In a league where wins and losses are determined so much by match ups, it's nice to have a guy who can match up against RBs who can also pose as passing weapons.

I also think he has some untapped pass rush talent. His college tape was pretty impressive as a pass rusher. I want to say he had 5 sacks in 10 games or so as a rookie too.

I'm curious to see how he does. I have some hope.

Ted Thompson and Dom Capers must have a lot of hope in him.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

I admit I'm not a fan of dumping Bishop, but I have to agree with you...when I heard about the 'tweaking' of his leg, that probably was an indication Bishop is overselling, and rightfully so: he wants his job back (and a paycheck). Also, if he can't get/stay healthy, which he's not (yet), he can't play or practice and he's not as valueable as Jones or Hawk in that regard. The cap relief is probably not as important as his health/availability and his impact on locker room chemistry -- I suspect his unhappiness in the past at sitting behind Barnett played into this. Nobody knows (except Bishop and his trainer) if he can run anymore, and he likely can't cover as well as Jones can.



Oh, I don't know. They have Manning from last year and drafted Barrington this year. They also have Francois. Don't recall if Lattimore is ILB or OLB, but assuming he's OLB that's still 5 players for two ILB spots.

Looks like I'm trying to talk myself into being ok with this. My feeling is that TT is releasing him a year early, but I think ultimately it's the right call. Can't see Minny signing him -- Finley, Pettigrew, and a host of TE's would eat him alive down the seam in their Cover-2 scheme. They let Brinkley go, and he was a sledgehammer...I have doubts Bishop would be an upgrade in that defense. Someone will pick him up quick...Ravens, Raiders, etc.

I haven't checked for any update on Desmond Bishop as I make this post. Where might he land?

The Baltimore Ravens are making a lot of the what seems like right moves on 'D'. I'm thinking that other teams are more likely to seriously look at D. Bishop. I'm not at all optimistic in a prediction that he'll end up in Minny. It looks like their GM is almost shadowing the style of TT. I can't imagine it not being any more complicated then simply placing a call to Ted Thompson for a heads up. To examine the real risks.

Teams know that Ted Thompson is smart/honest. That TT thought seriously about the value in D. Bishop; or the trade rumor talk at draft time wouldn't have surfaced. The longer that window of opportunity stayed open... the more hard shut it would become. It had to get too time to release.

Releasing D. Bishop might be a simply attached to the Packers CAP space. It's obvious that TT need's CAP space with so many solid and growing Packers poised to possibly leave Green Bay.

GO PACK GO !

[3irty1]

I don't necessarily have a problem with releasing Bishop; but overpaying Jones, not drafting any ILB'er help, not signing (of course) any ILB'er help, and releasing Bishop... all of that combined is just mind-numbing.

I see ILB as a completely dead position for us, and wanted to address it in one way or another - and wouldn't have even minded going small, ala Arthur Brown. The guy I really wanted in there was Sio Moore.

If not seeking an upgrade thru a couple of guys like that, my 2nd option would have been to take a bigger guy that might have been able to make the move. Any which way, I wanted more speed, or toughness, or flexibility, or something - anything, that might have been able to give us a different look there that could be schemed to take advantage of. As it is, we're so pedestrian at the position that we might as well go ahead and cut 'em all, save the cap space, and throw some bartenders in there.

I fear Capers is having a lot of say in personnel decisions - and that can only serve to hurt our defense even after he's fired.

Why Arthur Brown? He doesn't seem to fit what you're about at all. He was the centerpiece of an amazing defense in college even in college he didn't have many impact plays.

[MadScientist]

I haven't checked for any update on Desmond Bishop as I make this post. Where might he land?

The Baltimore Ravens are making a lot of the what seems like right moves on 'D'. I'm thinking that other teams are more likely to seriously look at D. Bishop. I'm not at all optimistic in a prediction that he'll end up in Minny. It looks like their GM is almost shadowing the style of TT. I can't imagine it not being any more complicated then simply placing a call to Ted Thompson for a heads up. To examine the real risks.

Releasing D. Bishop might be a simply attached to the Packers CAP space. It's obvious that TT need's CAP space with so many solid and growing Packers poised to possibly leave Green Bay.

GO PACK GO !

He is visiting MN and from Rastak's comments during the draft MN has nothing for MLB, so it makes sense for them to kick the tires on Bishop. Their GM is shadowing TT - by picking up everyone TT casts off.

Cap was a significant factor but I think the injury pushed the Packers to cut him now rather than bring him into camp. I wonder if they hadn't had to do the Rodgers and Mathews contracts, would Bishop still be on the team.

[Pugger]

I too wonder just how healthy that hammy is. We aren't exactly overflowing with ILBers so there must be more to this than is being reported. :-(

[woodbuck27]

I too wonder just how healthy that hammy is. We aren't exactly overflowing with ILBers so there must be more to this than is being reported. :-(

No team will sign him if that team isn't sure he'll make a contribution as a starter. He has to prove ready to play. If he's signed soon then we can more than less rule out his health as a factor in his release. I think the risk factor factored into his release but:

a) TT needs CAP space.

b) TT feels that he has other options on the inside of our OL.

PACKERS !

[run pMc]

I was once very high on Chillar, even saying he was the answer opposite Clay. They tried to use the weird package where he played big safety and it was mixed, then he tore a hammy and goodnight Irene. I feel very much the same about Jones. I see most of the same skills and weakness. He is better vs. the pass as both rusher and cover guy, and serviceable vs. the run, but definately not good enough yet. I just hope he doesn't tear a hammy.

Wow -- I forgot about Chillar's hamstring. You think that had anything to do with Bishop's release? Are hamstring tears something that can easily happen again? I'm wondering if, after going through this before with Chillar, they just felt it was better to act quickly...especially with Bishop already tweaking his leg before they put pads on?

With the amount of cap space the Packers already have, I don't think it was a major factor unless they have a couple of extensions close to signing. I think it had more to do with numbers and locker room chemistry -- 3 ILBs getting starter's money, but only 2 can start, and if Bishop can't even practice it won't be him. I like his aggressiveness, but I suspect there was a chance he'd be "a little moody" about going back to being a backup/ST guy.

Minny will kick the tires on Bishop -- they have Erin Henderson, an OLB, penciled in as the starter at MLB. They want competition -- Henderson isn't bad, but it's a new spot and they don't want to just hand it to him. Very skeptical Bishop is the answer at MLB in a Cover-2 scheme, I think there are better options...but whatever. I hate it when the Vikings do anything smart.

[Guiness]

He is visiting MN and from Rastak's comments during the draft MN has nothing for MLB, so it makes sense for them to kick the tires on Bishop. Their GM is shadowing TT - by picking up everyone TT casts off.

Cap was a significant factor but I think the injury pushed the Packers to cut him now rather than bring him into camp. I wonder if they hadn't had to do the Rodgers and Mathews contracts, would Bishop still be on the team.

I wonder if the Vikings have looked at Barnett? He had a decent season last year, 16 starts and 100+ tackles...some forced fumbles as well. IMO he was one of the better pieces they had in Buffalo.

[woodbuck27]

I wonder if the Vikings have looked at Barnett? He had a decent season last year, 16 starts and 100+ tackles...some forced fumbles as well. IMO he was one of the better pieces they had in Buffalo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Barnett#Buffalo_Bills

Nick Barnett was born May 27, 1981 so that makes him 32 years old.

His stat's the last two seasons in Buffalo aren't unimpressive. See table in LINK above.

PACKERS !

[Cheesehead Craig]

From what I've heard is that MN, KC and Miami are his scheduled stops in that order. Given KC and Mia run a 3-4 he may be a more likely candidate to land there. We'll find out tomorrow as Bishop is in MN then for his workout.

[Upnorth]

I wonder if the Vikings have looked at Barnett? He had a decent season last year, 16 starts and 100+ tackles...some forced fumbles as well. IMO he was one of the better pieces they had in Buffalo.

NFL Network had a couple of people saying the same thing yesterday. I think Barnett would unfortunatly be a good fit as MLB for the queens, he is still a sure tackler and know's how to diagnosis a play. Get in the way and run to the ball.

[red]

Gone

driver
jennings
woodson
dj smith
benson
saturday

i'm gonna have to study a fucking roster this season so i know who's still on the team and who the hell the new guys are

[Pugger]

But these new guys are gonna be fun to watch! :-)

[Bretsky]

3irty had a classic post.........calling Bishop a future Raven. I must admit, when I think of Bishop he is th classic Raven. Tough Guy/Hard Ass...Potential to make huge plays while also giving up some...not overly steady....but he wants to frickin Crack people.....aka...Wayne Simmons'
'

Take Clay away....and our prototype Packer defender seems to be very average...steady..finesse.....who on our D scares people ? Nobody.

[Smeefers]

No team will sign him if that team isn't sure he'll make a contribution as a starter. He has to prove ready to play. If he's signed soon then we can more than less rule out his health as a factor in his release. I think the risk factor factored into his release but:

a) TT needs CAP space.

b) TT feels that he has other options on the inside of our OL.

PACKERS !

We already have a ton of cap space (13.5 mil last I heard). Unless we plan on signing Raji, Morgan, Shields, Newhouse, Wilson and the kitchen sink this year, I doubt money was a deciding factor

[Smeefers]

3irty had a classic post.........calling Bishop a future Raven. I must admit, when I think of Bishop he is th classic Raven. Tough Guy/Hard Ass...Potential to make huge plays while also giving up some...not overly steady....but he wants to frickin Crack people.....aka...Wayne Simmons'
'

Take Clay away....and our prototype Packer defender seems to be very average...steady..finesse.....who on our D scares people ? Nobody.

Our corners and safeties know how to pick a pass and we have the most dominant pass rusher in the league. Don't care about scaring people. I care about results. If our D keeps improving, we're going to be a serious hassle come play off times.

C'mon guys! It's not all doom and gloom out there!

[mraynrand]

Our corners and safeties know how to pick a pass and we have the most dominant pass rusher in the league. Don't care about scaring people. I care about results. If our D keeps improving, we're going to be a serious hassle come play off times.

C'mon guys! It's not all doom and gloom out there!


Preach it!

[red]

3irty had a classic post.........calling Bishop a future Raven. I must admit, when I think of Bishop he is th classic Raven. Tough Guy/Hard Ass...Potential to make huge plays while also giving up some...not overly steady....but he wants to frickin Crack people.....aka...Wayne Simmons'
'

Take Clay away....and our prototype Packer defender seems to be very average...steady..finesse.....who on our D scares people ? Nobody.

and you know what the stupid part is?

i would take almost every member of the ravens D over what we have now

[red]

We already have a ton of cap space (13.5 mil last I heard). Unless we plan on signing Raji, Morgan, Shields, Newhouse, Wilson and the kitchen sink this year, I doubt money was a deciding factor

agreed, we DO NOT need the cap space right now

that can't be the reason he was cut

[wist43]

Preach it!

shut up, and put your had back on... pervert!!!

[wist43]

Our corners and safeties know how to pick a pass and we have the most dominant pass rusher in the league. Don't care about scaring people. I care about results. If our D keeps improving, we're going to be a serious hassle come play off times.

C'mon guys! It's not all doom and gloom out there!

The Packers are a finesse team on both sides of the ball... they get away with it on offense b/c of Rodgers and the receiving corp, but every other aspect of the team is finesse.

TT, MM, and especially Capers want to play as small as they can possibly get away with - they want cover people on the field. Pressure up front and tackling are secondary considerations. I think that is a seriously flawed philosophy, and it can get pretty embarrassing when the defense is getting bitch slapped by tougher teams - but, that's their philosophy.

When the HC has to field questions every week from the media asking about the physicality and tackling of his team, and he's always saying 'we're working on it'... where there's smoke, there's fire.

Actually, I think MM is lying when he says they're working on it, lol... cuz it's the same thing week after week. Drag the guy down, or escort him to the sideline is just as good to them I guess... it's a mystery to me, but it is what it is.

[smuggler]

They probably cut Bishop because they didn't want to deal with him as a backup. Same thing they did with... Wayne Simmons back when.

[pbmax]

OK. I am calling a time out on Bishop's hitting. He might be the biggest hitter on the team from ILB, but he is not a monster. His best play in 2 seasons of playing was a shoestring tackle of Desean Jackson.

Wayne Simmons once turned Brent Jones into his personal ventriloquist dummy.

Bishop might have wanted to hit everyone and he did get some production out of it as he had 5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles in a full year. But he did not intimidate and he did not stop a running game. With limited wheels, he was a hard hitting but average player.

This might go Jenkins on us as his potential replacements might fall on their face, but I am not losing sleep over the talent that left.

That said, he does seem to be a standup, accountable and intelligent guy. I hope its not the last we see of him in Green Bay.

[Bretsky]

They probably cut Bishop because they didn't want to deal with him as a backup. Same thing they did with... Wayne Simmons back when.

Calling bluff on this one
IMO we didn't have anybody better than Wayne Simmons waitin in the wings
We cut Wayne Simmons IMO because some thought he was a bad person....right or wrong
Plenty of whispers out there that as much as Fritz liked him, Holmgren disliked him
Dude was a rebel...high strung...probably a challenge to coach as well...not to Mike's liking

Hard to fathom JustaguyJones as being better than Bishop unless he's hurt
I could understand if a guy like Bishop is a challenge to coach although I have not read any Simmons like reports out there. Maybe he didn't toe the company line all the time; maybe he shared his thoughts too much for the liking of some. Who knows.

Bishop's smash mouth tough guy attitude belongs as a Raven or Steeler

[Bretsky]

OK. I am calling a time out on Bishop's hitting. He might be the biggest hitter on the team from ILB, but he is not a monster. His best play in 2 seasons of playing was a shoestring tackle of Desean Jackson.

Wayne Simmons once turned Brent Jones into his personal ventriloquist dummy.

Bishop might have wanted to hit everyone and he did get some production out of it as he had 5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles in a full year. But he did not intimidate and he did not stop a running game. With limited wheels, he was a hard hitting but average player.

This might go Jenkins on us as his potential replacements might fall on their face, but I am not losing sleep over the talent that left.

That said, he does seem to be a standup, accountable and intelligent guy. I hope its not the last we see of him in Green Bay.


Take the Claymker out of th epicture
He's a smash mouth tough hitter compared with the rest of the finesseee LB's

[Joemailman]

Bishop tore his hamstring last year. He still wasn't practicing this year. He was due to make almost 4 million this year. Therefore, he's gone.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's surprising, but I still have high hopes for this defense. Adding Jones and Jolly gives the DL depth. I'm on the Perry bandwagon. If he stays healthy, I think he could be to Clay what Woodley was to Harrison. Our corners are good. Burnett is solid with the potential to be great. I'm hopeful that McMillian makes "the leap" this year. Hawk is good run defender and Jones was good in the subpackages last year. I think this points to the Packers liking Manning's potential.

[Guiness]

3irty had a classic post.........calling Bishop a future Raven. I must admit, when I think of Bishop he is th classic Raven. Tough Guy/Hard Ass...Potential to make huge plays while also giving up some...not overly steady....but he wants to frickin Crack people.....aka...Wayne Simmons'
'

Take Clay away....and our prototype Packer defender seems to be very average...steady..finesse.....who on our D scares people ? Nobody.

Well...most of our defense scares me, and it sounds like they've got you nervous too.

[RashanGary]

It's surprising, but I still have high hopes for this defense. Adding Jones and Jolly gives the DL depth. I'm on the Perry bandwagon. If he stays healthy, I think he could be to Clay what Woodley was to Harrison. Our corners are good. Burnett is solid with the potential to be great. I'm hopeful that McMillian makes "the leap" this year. Hawk is good run defender and Jones was good in the subpackages last year. I think this points to the Packers liking Manning's potential.

I think they'll be significantly better this year. I like the group.

[3irty1]

OK. I am calling a time out on Bishop's hitting. He might be the biggest hitter on the team from ILB, but he is not a monster. His best play in 2 seasons of playing was a shoestring tackle of Desean Jackson.

Wayne Simmons once turned Brent Jones into his personal ventriloquist dummy.

Bishop might have wanted to hit everyone and he did get some production out of it as he had 5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles in a full year. But he did not intimidate and he did not stop a running game. With limited wheels, he was a hard hitting but average player.

This might go Jenkins on us as his potential replacements might fall on their face, but I am not losing sleep over the talent that left.

That said, he does seem to be a standup, accountable and intelligent guy. I hope its not the last we see of him in Green Bay.

Bishop had some serious pop. He didn't have a lot of speed to turn into power but he could uncoil and generate a ton of power out of his hips for a killshot--a great quality as he didn't need a running start to bring the wood. I suspect a lot of fans' first memory of Bishop was in the 2007 preseason game against Jacksonville where a guy made a catch over the middle Bishop unloaded on him and leveled him while flatfooted. It looked like he was dead. There is no sugar-coating the loss of Bishop, he was tremendously productive when he was on the field.

Doesn't stop me from being intrigued by the possibilities of Jones. He's a very interesting player in that he was a DE in college, moved to 3-4 OLB in the pros, and now MLB yet his biggest strength is his coverage skill. Plus he's a black guy named Brad. What an enigma. He's got all the tools, you'd just like to see him get his hands on the ball a little more. Remember when he broke Favre's foot and cause an int on the same hit? Guy should be in the Packer hall just for that play.

Someone drink the koolaid with me. Let's start a Brad Jonestown massacre.

[3irty1]

Take the Claymker out of th epicture
He's a smash mouth tough hitter compared with the rest of the finesseee LB's

I don't know if that's fair to Hawk. He's not that great but he's not a finesse guy. Hawk might wrap up rather than aim to bruise but he plays strong and stout. Definitely doesn't hesitate to get his nose in and if we're being honest with ourselves he's the toughest sob on the team.

[Fritz]

The Packers are a finesse team on both sides of the ball... they get away with it on offense b/c of Rodgers and the receiving corp, but every other aspect of the team is finesse.

TT, MM, and especially Capers want to play as small as they can possibly get away with - they want cover people on the field. Pressure up front and tackling are secondary considerations. I think that is a seriously flawed philosophy, and it can get pretty embarrassing when the defense is getting bitch slapped by tougher teams - but, that's their philosophy.

When the HC has to field questions every week from the media asking about the physicality and tackling of his team, and he's always saying 'we're working on it'... where there's smoke, there's fire.

Actually, I think MM is lying when he says they're working on it, lol... cuz it's the same thing week after week. Drag the guy down, or escort him to the sideline is just as good to them I guess... it's a mystery to me, but it is what it is.


Okay, Rats....

If I started a poll whose question was "Which Packer defender of the last four years does this defense miss or will this defense miss the most?" - whaddya think the results would be?

You know the answer to this. It's the one thing in this damn site we pretty much all agree on.

It's not Cullen Jenkins.

It's not Johnny Jolly.

The hands-down winner of this poll would be....

Yup.

Nick Collins.

Now, let's take a look at this in the context of the "woe is we, the Packers' defense will be too soft now, even worse than before!" mantra that Wist and others are peddling.

So, the player we'd like back, the one who would be the biggest difference-maker on this defense, would be Nick Collins. I'd think that at least 95% of the Rats would say so.

So how about that Nick Collins. Do we miss him because man, he was mean? Did he ever lay the wood, baby! He was like Chuck Cecil and then some!

Uh, no.

That dude was a playmaker. He could cover all kinds of ground, he could get to the ball, and he was a sure tackler.

So let's not gnash our teeth too much. I liked Bishop and wanted him back for camp to see if he could compete. But let's not pretend the guy could cover, or that he was available all the time. He was solid, and yes, he brought some thump. And that was good. No question. But he had his liabilities, too.

It's Nick Collins' athleticism we miss most, not Desmond Bishop's toughness.

[denverYooper]

Bishop had some serious pop. He didn't have a lot of speed to turn into power but he could uncoil and generate a ton of power out of his hips for a killshot--a great quality as he didn't need a running start to bring the wood. I suspect a lot of fans' first memory of Bishop was in the 2007 preseason game against Jacksonville where a guy made a catch over the middle Bishop unloaded on him and leveled him while flatfooted. It looked like he was dead. There is no sugar-coating the loss of Bishop, he was tremendously productive when he was on the field.

Doesn't stop me from being intrigued by the possibilities of Jones. He's a very interesting playing in that he was a DE in college, moved to 3-4 OLB in the pros, and now MLB yet his biggest strength is his coverage skill. Plus he's a black guy named Brad. What an enigma. He's got all the tools, you'd just like to see him get his hands on the ball a little more. Remember when he broke Favre's foot and cause an int on the same hit? Guy should be in the Packer hall just for that play.

Someone drink the koolaid with me. Let's start a Brad Jonestown massacre.

He was born in Michigan, moved to Colorado, and now plays for the Packers. Pretty much the same path I took. Except I only chat about the Packers. I'm in.

[denverYooper]

From the "Brad Jones is better than you think department", with 10 starts:
77 tackles, 2 sacks, 4 passes defensed, 1 FF

[Smidgeon]

3irty had a classic post.........calling Bishop a future Raven. I must admit, when I think of Bishop he is th classic Raven. Tough Guy/Hard Ass...Potential to make huge plays while also giving up some...not overly steady....but he wants to frickin Crack people.....aka...Wayne Simmons'
'

Take Clay away....and our prototype Packer defender seems to be very average...steady..finesse.....who on our D scares people ? Nobody.

I still have hope for McMillian
Also, I'd like to make the announcement that I'm jumping on the Datone Jones bandwagon. I know it's premature as I haven't seen him play at all, but I'm going to go out on a limb and join the fan club. He could do some damage too.

[Smidgeon]

Okay, Rats....

If I started a poll whose question was "Which Packer defender of the last four years does this defense miss or will this defense miss the most?" - whaddya think the results would be?

You know the answer to this. It's the one thing in this damn site we pretty much all agree on.

It's not Cullen Jenkins.

It's not Johnny Jolly.

The hands-down winner of this poll would be....

Yup.

Nick Collins.

Now, let's take a look at this in the context of the "woe is we, the Packers' defense will be too soft now, even worse than before!" mantra that Wist and others are peddling.

So, the player we'd like back, the one who would be the biggest difference-maker on this defense, would be Nick Collins. I'd think that at least 95% of the Rats would say so.

So how about that Nick Collins. Do we miss him because man, he was mean? Did he ever lay the wood, baby! He was like Chuck Cecil and then some!

Uh, no.

That dude was a playmaker. He could cover all kinds of ground, he could get to the ball, and he was a sure tackler.

So let's not gnash our teeth too much. I liked Bishop and wanted him back for camp to see if he could compete. But let's not pretend the guy could cover, or that he was available all the time. He was solid, and yes, he brought some thump. And that was good. No question. But he had his liabilities, too.

It's Nick Collins' athleticism we miss most, not Desmond Bishop's toughness.

Well said.

[wist43]

Okay, Rats....

If I started a poll whose question was "Which Packer defender of the last four years does this defense miss or will this defense miss the most?" - whaddya think the results would be?

You know the answer to this. It's the one thing in this damn site we pretty much all agree on.

It's not Cullen Jenkins.

It's not Johnny Jolly.

The hands-down winner of this poll would be....

Yup.

Nick Collins.

Now, let's take a look at this in the context of the "woe is we, the Packers' defense will be too soft now, even worse than before!" mantra that Wist and others are peddling.

So, the player we'd like back, the one who would be the biggest difference-maker on this defense, would be Nick Collins. I'd think that at least 95% of the Rats would say so.

So how about that Nick Collins. Do we miss him because man, he was mean? Did he ever lay the wood, baby! He was like Chuck Cecil and then some!

Uh, no.

That dude was a playmaker. He could cover all kinds of ground, he could get to the ball, and he was a sure tackler.

So let's not gnash our teeth too much. I liked Bishop and wanted him back for camp to see if he could compete. But let's not pretend the guy could cover, or that he was available all the time. He was solid, and yes, he brought some thump. And that was good. No question. But he had his liabilities, too.

It's Nick Collins' athleticism we miss most, not Desmond Bishop's toughness.

I agree, Nick Collins wasn't the brightest bulb in the bin, but he progressed into a damn good safety - I imagine Capers was trying to find a way to get rid of him ;)

[pittstang5]

I'm hopeful McMillian, this year, can come in and be like Nick Collins. He won't be able to replace him. Let's face it, a player like Nick Collins only comes around once in awhile. I'm just glad he played for the Packers while he could. I have no faith in Burnett and would love it if someone would beat him out this year in TC.

[Fritz]

I agree, Nick Collins wasn't the brightest bulb in the bin, but he progressed into a damn good safety - I imagine Capers was trying to find a way to get rid of him ;)

That's funny, but Collins seems to have been one of those "finesse" players you so despise. He wasn't a big hitter - a sure tackler, but not known as someone a wide receiver would fear. I thought Capers/MM/TT only didn't want tough guys.

[wist43]

That's funny, but Collins seems to have been one of those "finesse" players you so despise. He wasn't a big hitter - a sure tackler, but not known as someone a wide receiver would fear. I thought Capers/MM/TT only didn't want tough guys.

Collins was a very physical Safety... don't know if I'd call him a big hitter, but he certainly brought the lumber, and he was probably the fastest guy on the team. The only knock on Collins was his pea sized brain; but given enough reps, even he was able to get it figured out.

[Fritz]

Collins was a very physical Safety... don't know if I'd call him a big hitter, but he certainly brought the lumber, and he was probably the fastest guy on the team. The only knock on Collins was his pea sized brain; but given enough reps, even he was able to get it figured out.


I'm not sure Collins' reputation was as someone who "brought the lumber." He was a sure tackler, but did not have the qualities you feel are crucial to the defense. Yet he's the guy the team misses most.

[run pMc]

Collins was physical enough, not a Chuck Cecil hitter, but had no problem bringing it. My recollections of him were that he's not the brightest bulb on the tree (ok, so he's a football player) but a good team guy. Had hands of stone his first few years, and was prone to bad angles but could sometimes outrun that. Once the football smarts caught up to the athleticism he was a very good safety.

The defense missed him -- he got people lined up and the communication noticeably suffered when he went out. Maybe McMillian figures it out this year; the defense still misses him.

Butler > Collins > Sharper IMO


Wait, this thread is about Bishop - why are we talking about Collins?
Bishop will not be missed as much as Collins is/was. They have more guys who can play at ILB than they do at S.

[Freak Out]

Collins was a badass....dude could cover some ground in a hurry and put a lick on you. Bishop was never in the Collins class.

[RashanGary]

Collins was a badass....dude could cover some ground in a hurry and put a lick on you. Bishop was never in the Collins class.

I agree. If bishop had 4.5 speed instead of 4.7, i think he plays a similar style, but Collins had the physical talent to go along with the competitiveness and instincts for the game.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Butler > Collins > Sharper IMO

Agreed.

[Bretsky]

It's surprising, but I still have high hopes for this defense. Adding Jones and Jolly gives the DL depth. I'm on the Perry bandwagon. If he stays healthy, I think he could be to Clay what Woodley was to Harrison. Our corners are good. Burnett is solid with the potential to be great. I'm hopeful that McMillian makes "the leap" this year. Hawk is good run defender and Jones was good in the subpackages last year. I think this points to the Packers liking Manning's potential.


I hope you right on Jolly but I'm skeptical how much he can add after taking a couple yrs off

I do LOVE D jones and always have; he has the abilities to give us what Cullen was giving us in his prime with higher upside. I'm waiting and seeing on Perry....I too really like Burnett.

And I completely agree........with us blowing off DJ Smith and Bishop we MUST be high on Manning

[Bretsky]

NOTE FROM NFL NETWORK:

great interview with Bishop: He has interest from the Vikings, Giants, Jags, and San Fran

Bishop also noted when he was released GB made no mention of his health

[RashanGary]

..

[Fritz]

Collins was physical enough, not a Chuck Cecil hitter, but had no problem bringing it. My recollections of him were that he's not the brightest bulb on the tree (ok, so he's a football player) but a good team guy. Had hands of stone his first few years, and was prone to bad angles but could sometimes outrun that. Once the football smarts caught up to the athleticism he was a very good safety.

The defense missed him -- he got people lined up and the communication noticeably suffered when he went out. Maybe McMillian figures it out this year; the defense still misses him.

Butler > Collins > Sharper IMO


Wait, this thread is about Bishop - why are we talking about Collins?
Bishop will not be missed as much as Collins is/was. They have more guys who can play at ILB than they do at S.

I brought up Collins to remind those who thought releasing Bishop would be the undoing of any hope for the defense because Bishop was such a a smashmouth guy - to remind them that talent and athleticism mean more than a "tough guy" who may make you feel good about your own manliness cuz he's a badass - but can't cover a tight end cuz he's too slow.

[woodbuck27]

NOTE FROM NFL NETWORK:

great interview with Bishop: He has interest from the Vikings, Giants, Jags, and San Fran

Bishop also noted when he was released GB made no mention of his health

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000213816/article/desmond-bishop-to-choose-from-chiefs-giants-Vikings

Comment woodbuck27:

Who has the best shot at signing Desmond Bishop? It's really anyone's guess but if CAP space is any indication of such eligibility:

The Vikings lead in eligible salary CAP space, in the race to sign likely the best FA available today in Desmond Bishop.

The Vikings have $7.1 Million$ Salary CAP space available.

The Chiefs are sit at $3.5 million$ and Giants at $3.1 million$ CAP space available. The report says that both the Vikings and Chiefs very much desire to sign Desmond Bishop to a one (1) years contract.

[Pugger]

I brought up Collins to remind those who thought releasing Bishop would be the undoing of any hope for the defense because Bishop was such a a smashmouth guy - to remind them that talent and athleticism mean more than a "tough guy" who may make you feel good about your own manliness cuz he's a badass - but can't cover a tight end cuz he's too slow.

And if we are wringing our hands because we let Kaepernick run wild on us maybe it is speed we need more than attitude.

[pittstang5]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000213816/article/desmond-bishop-to-choose-from-chiefs-giants-Vikings

Comment woodbuck27:

Who has the best shot at signing Desmond Bishop? It's really anyone's guess but if CAP space is any indication of such eligibility:

The Vikings lead in eligible salary CAP space, in the race to sign likely the best FA available today in Desmond Bishop.

The Vikings have $7.1 Million$ Salary CAP space available.

The Chiefs are sit at $3.5 million$ and Giants at $3.1 million$ CAP space available. The report says that both the Vikings and Chiefs very much desire to sign Desmond Bishop to a one (1) years contract.

Hope he signs somewhere other than the Vikings. I'm tired of former Packers going there.

[Fritz]

Bring the Vikes your poor, your injured, your aging masses of former Packers.

[woodbuck27]

Hope he signs somewhere other than the Vikings. I'm tired of former Packers going there.

I don't want him in the NFCN. I certainly don't want him joining Greg Jennings in Minny. That destination redefines the term 'Old Home' and Packers - Viking relations.

The Vikings have Greg Jennings and having Desmond Bishop might be a real grab in terms of them picking his brain or how does Dom Capers try to run our 'D'.

I don't want to possibly have to face him 2x this season. Him all jacked up to play smash mouth on Aaron Rodgers. Desmond Bishop will be very determined I expect. He'll have 'a giant sized' chip on his shoulder.

PACKERS !

[Upnorth]

I don't want him in the NFCN. I certainly don't want him joining Greg Jennings in Minny. That destination redefines the term 'Old Home' and Packers - Viking relations.

The Vikings have Greg Jennings and having Desmond Bishop might be a real grab in terms of them picking his brain or how does Dom Capers try to run our 'D'.

I don't want to possibly have to face him 2x this season. Him all jacked up to play smash mouth on Aaron Rodgers. Desmond Bishop will be very determined I expect. He'll have 'a giant sized' chip on his shoulder.

PACKERS !

Are we perhaps over romaticising Bishop a bit too much? When he first was injured and Francois came in the d played better (at least for the reminder of that game). Also if he is an impact player that we are missing then the injury threat must be huge, or if the injury threat isn't that bad then maybe he's not much different than Jones or hawk.

[woodbuck27]

Are we perhaps over romaticising Bishop a bit too much? When he first was injured and Francois came in the d played better (at least for the reminder of that game). Also if he is an impact player that we are missing then the injury threat must be huge, or if the injury threat isn't that bad then maybe he's not much different than Jones or hawk.

Whoaa !

I don't want to romance Desmond Bishop.

[mraynrand]

Whoaa !

I don't want to romance Desmond Bishop.

homophobe. Why be a hater?

[Upnorth]

homophobe. Why be a hater?

Woody, I think rand is implying that he wants you to be a lover (perhaps his...)

[mraynrand]

Woody, I think rand is implying that he wants you to be a lover (perhaps his...)

Not that there's anything wrong with that

[woodbuck27]

Woody, I think rand is implying that he wants you to be a lover (perhaps his...)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRH0S23lWTWV6zMIxMpWoH-eyXrqbvKoVvfAJlYokeAqeq-fN6-kA

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRur77r-ajlKKHm46jCsGjMQ_XGboNVewBDDxgoL5cvfduYUObE

This thread is falling off !!

[woodbuck27]

http://www.sportsmedia101.com/greenbaypackers/2013/06/21/green-bay-packers-options-without-desmond-bishop/

Green Bay Packers Options Without Desmond Bishop

June 21st, 2013 at 12:24 PM ... By Sean Tehan

" Bishop didn’t become a full-time defensive starter for the Packers until 2010, after starter Nick Barnett was lost to a season-ending wrist injury four weeks into the season. In his final two years as a Packer starter, Bishop recorded 218 tackles and eight sacks, and became quite the defensive leader for the Packer defense, including making some key plays in the Packers' Super Bowl run (at Philadelphia, Wild Card Round, video above).

In four postseason games during the Packers Super Bowl XLV run, Bishop recorded 26 total tackles, one sack, recovered two fumbles, and forced one fumble. Bishop wasn’t an NFL superstar linebacker, but he was the kind of role player perfect for the Packer defense. Bishop brought great energy, intelligence, and an attitude to the defense. So who will replace Bishop? " Fr. LINK above

Please click on LINK for the entire story.

PACKERS !

[Smeefers]

I'd love it if Minny picked up Bishop. Immagine the snit EJ Henderson would have. I'm not afraid of him giving away any trade secrets. Everyone knows what we try to do to minnesota. Stop Adrian Peterson. If he ends up lining up outside, that's all the better. He was not a great cover LB.

[red]

i think everyone of us can now say to M3's face that he is a lying sack of fat shit when he starts talking about how the packers are gonna get bigger and tougher

i don't know if we have a single badass tough guy left on the defensive roster

[Bretsky]

I don't know if that's fair to Hawk. He's not that great but he's not a finesse guy. Hawk might wrap up rather than aim to bruise but he plays strong and stout. Definitely doesn't hesitate to get his nose in and if we're being honest with ourselves he's the toughest sob on the team.

This brings me to react on like one of Cris Carters "COME ON MAN" plays.....

Hawk scares nobody; I don't remember any Wayne Simmons like blows...aka...difference making hits in games. He seemed to have some in college but his talents just have not transferred like many of us (me at front of the list) thought they would.

The two best guys on NFL Network...Pat Kirwin is the lead guy.....who watch these games constantly...in interviewing Bishop Friday told him hands down he was the best ILB on the Packers team two years ago on gameday and tried asking a couple probing questins.

For what it's worth Bishop handled the entire interview first class.

[pbmax]

i think everyone of us can now say to M3's face that he is a lying sack of fat shit when he starts talking about how the packers are gonna get bigger and tougher

i don't know if we have a single badass tough guy left on the defensive roster

I don't think he has said that. He has been fighting back on that narrative.

[Rastak]

I'd love it if Minny picked up Bishop. Immagine the snit EJ Henderson would have. I'm not afraid of him giving away any trade secrets. Everyone knows what we try to do to minnesota. Stop Adrian Peterson. If he ends up lining up outside, that's all the better. He was not a great cover LB.


EJ has been out of the league for going on two years. I'm guessing he couldn't care less. Also, I'm not so sure they might not look at him at OLB. Anyway, could be a moot point. At 28 if he's healthy he'd be a good addition but health is the question.

[Joemailman]

i think everyone of us can now say to M3's face that he is a lying sack of fat shit when he starts talking about how the packers are gonna get bigger and tougher

What are you for ascribing statements to him he didn't make?

[3irty1]

This brings me to react on like one of Cris Carters "COME ON MAN" plays.....

Hawk scares nobody; I don't remember any Wayne Simmons like blows...aka...difference making hits in games. He seemed to have some in college but his talents just have not transferred like many of us (me at front of the list) thought they would.

The two best guys on NFL Network...Pat Kirwin is the lead guy.....who watch these games constantly...in interviewing Bishop Friday told him hands down he was the best ILB on the Packers team two years ago on gameday and tried asking a couple probing questins.

For what it's worth Bishop handled the entire interview first class.

I wouldn't say Wayne Simmons's defining characteristic was toughness. Maybe mean or nasty but I'm talking about toughness in the Brett Favre sense. Tough enough to play though shit. Delivering killshots is fun to watch and all but it doesn't make you tough.

[Pugger]

Like I said earlier, speed might be a higher priority than attitude and this may be why we let Bishop walk.

[3irty1]

Like I said earlier, speed might be a higher priority than attitude and this may be why we let Bishop walk.

I think that's a pretty solid argument at this point. They committed to Jones over Bishop who is faster, longer, and more available. They drafted other Jones who is now our fastest and longest DL. They waved Walden off who is much slower and smaller than my boy Perry. Waved off Woodson who was our slowest safety and our slowest cornerback.

Pretty clear what they are retooling for and the common denominator ain't size or toughness.

[pbmax]

I think that's a pretty solid argument at this point. They committed to Jones over Bishop who is faster, longer, and more available. They drafted other Jones who is now our fastest and longest DL. They waved Walden off who is much slower and smaller than my boy Perry. Waved off Woodson who was our slowest safety and our slowest cornerback.

Pretty clear what they are retooling for and the common denominator ain't size or toughness.

Bingo.

[Upnorth]

Bishop to vikings per pro football talk.

We have a retirement home

[woodbuck27]

Bishop to vikings per pro football talk.

We have a retirement home

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000214409/article/desmond-bishop-minnesota-vikings-agree-to-contract

Desmond Bishop, Minnesota Vikings agree to (a one year) contract

By: Gregg Rosenthal ... Around The League Editor

Published: June 24, 2013 at 03:01 p.m. ... Updated: June 24, 2013 at 03:47 p.m.

" For now, Erin Henderson is the team's starting middle linebacker, and he wants to keep it that way. Part of Bishop's attractiveness is his versatility. He should be able to play all three downs and on the outside if necessary when asked. As long as he's healthy, we'd expect Bishop to play most downs with the Vikings.

A lineup of Chad Greenway, Bishop and Henderson on the field together could be Minnesota's best chance for success." Fr. LINK above

Please click on LINK for the entire story.

[Rastak]

Bishop to vikings per pro football talk.

We have a retirement home


Word is a one year deal at 1.5M. I thought he'd get more than that with three teams talking to him.

[woodbuck27]

Word is a one year deal at 1.5M. I thought he'd get more than that with three teams talking to him.

Hi Rastak:

I believe your team signed a solid player.

[red]

thats fucking great

another fan favorite is allowed to walk and goes right to our most hated enemy

[Joemailman]

thats fucking great

another fan favorite is allowed to walk and goes right to our most hated enemy

Yeah, but if he falls flat on his face, that makes it even better. I really question whether he has the range to be as effective in a 4-3 as he was in the Packers 3-4.

[Guiness]

Word is a one year deal at 1.5M. I thought he'd get more than that with three teams talking to him.

Without a doubt pretty cheap for what he can bring to the table - if he can. Worthwhile gamble for the Vikings.

[3irty1]

Something about this reeks of desperation. Bishop can be a great player but this is the worst case scheme to play in for an athletically challenged middle linebacker. On the other hand they won't have to platoon him like they might in a 3-4 because he can simply leave the field in nickle for them.

[Rastak]

Something about this reeks of desperation. Bishop can be a great player but this is the worst case scheme to play in for an athletically challenged middle linebacker. On the other hand they won't have to platoon him like they might in a 3-4 because he can simply leave the field in nickle for them.

Desperation would have been to throw 4M a year for 3 at him. Although I do believe their LB situation is shit. If he can play 2 downs with Erin Henderson playing in nickel it's an upgrade. This assumes the dudes healthy. You guys have seen him play more than me. Not so great in coverage and not a huge range but pretty ferocious against the run, at least for the two years he led or tied for the lead in tackles for GB is what I heard.

[3irty1]

I don't define desperation as offering 8x more than the next team was willing to pay. I'd like to see the guaranteed number because this makes a lot more sense if he's just added longshot competition. He could well find himself cut in August. That's a big boy injury that has ended a lot of careers.

[esoxx]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[Rastak]

I don't define desperation as offering 8x more than the next team was willing to pay. I'd like to see the guaranteed number because this makes a lot more sense if he's just added longshot competition. He could well find himself cut in August. That's a big boy injury that has ended a lot of careers.

Yea, Viking TE Kyle Rudolph had the same injury. It took him 12 months to recover.....it's not a trivial injury.

[pbmax]

I am actually surprised the deal is that low. I am almost as curious about what happens to him next, to see what kind of deal he can play himself into if healthy this year.

But the Packers release does seem less surprising at this number.

[Guiness]

I don't define desperation as offering 8x more than the next team was willing to pay. I'd like to see the guaranteed number because this makes a lot more sense if he's just added longshot competition. He could well find himself cut in August. That's a big boy injury that has ended a lot of careers.

How much, if any, guaranteed money he gets will be telling. If there really was 3 teams asking after him, he should've gotten something up front. If he didn't, it was likely his agent blowing hot air.


But the Packers release does seem less surprising at this number.

It's a pretty shitty time of year to be an FA and expect anything much more than vet minimum. He did ok for himself to get 1.5.

Have to wonder what he turned down from the Pack though, eh? Weren't they rumoured to have offered him a pay cut?

[Tony Oday]

Big deal. He is not good and he went to a team that will be 8-8 at best.

[RashanGary]

Big deal. He is not good and he went to a team that will be 8-8 at best.

The Vikings are good, man. AP is great. Ponder, while not a star, is coming into his prime and has a legit outside weapon to throw to. The defense is alright. Harrison is coming into his own. They had a major hole at LB. This makes them better and they were good to begin with.

I do think we're the better team, but we have the tougher schedule. They could easily win a bunch of games and we could easily lose a bunch with the schedule we have.

[Pugger]

How much, if any, guaranteed money he gets will be telling. If there really was 3 teams asking after him, he should've gotten something up front. If he didn't, it was likely his agent blowing hot air.



It's a pretty shitty time of year to be an FA and expect anything much more than vet minimum. He did ok for himself to get 1.5.

Have to wonder what he turned down from the Pack though, eh? Weren't they rumoured to have offered him a pay cut?

Did we really ask him if he'd take a pay cut? I don't remember hearing that...

[3irty1]

http://www.amjorthopedics.com/PDF/042060038.pdf

This is a document on complete hamstring ruptures in the NFL and their recovery results. I think table III on page 2 shows exactly how special it would be for Mr. Bishop to return to play.

The average draft round of players who returned after the injury: 3.25
The average draft round of players who didn't return: 5.5
Average games played before the injury for successful returners: 49.875
Average games played before injury for unsuccessful returners: 36.5
Average games played after the injury for successful returners: 38.5
Average games played after the injury for unsuccessful returners: 0

Its worth noting though that the specialist that Rudolph worked with predraft was from Owatana and that area seems to be the leader in this kind of treatment. Good chance this had something to do with Desmond's decision as well.

[Joemailman]

Did we really ask him if he'd take a pay cut? I don't remember hearing that...

There were stories saying that the Packers would release Bishop unless they could trade him or restructure his contract. I don't know that Bishop ever acknowledged that the Packers wanted him to take a cut, and TT never talks about contract info.

[Guiness]

Did we really ask him if he'd take a pay cut? I don't remember hearing that...

I don't know - there was a lot of talk that he would be offered one after the Jones contract was inked, but you may be right and they never did.

Looking at the JSO article about his release, looks like they may not have. He also tweaked it at the minicamp


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-release-inside-linebacker-bishop-b9935912z1-211929511.html

There also was the injury. While Bishop assured the hamstring tendon tear suffered in last year's preseason opener at San Diego is fully healed, he did have a muscle strain on the inside of the hamstring that sidelined him through organized team activities and minicamp. Bishop admitted he probably tried to run and cut prematurely, saying, "that wasn't the smartest thing to do."

Bishop's conversation with Thompson went well. He thanked the GM for the opportunity, and Bishop did say there's a chance he could return to the Packers if the compensation isn't right elsewhere. This is the familiar setting.

[Bretsky]

thats fucking great

another fan favorite is allowed to walk and goes right to our most hated enemy


On the very cheap as well; Kudos for the Vikings GM. Dude is making a lot of nice moves...building through the draft and using FA to fill needs.

[Bretsky]

Something about this reeks of desperation. Bishop can be a great player but this is the worst case scheme to play in for an athletically challenged middle linebacker. On the other hand they won't have to platoon him like they might in a 3-4 because he can simply leave the field in nickle for them.

This is called a cost effective shot at a solution with very minimal risk.

[Bretsky]

Big deal. He is not good and he went to a team that will be 8-8 at best.


He was our best ILB two years ago. And the Vikes are not that bad. Eight wins would be my prediction for them as well.....I agree we're better. But let's not ignore the possibility that this could really help the Queens

[Rastak]

On the very cheap as well; Kudos for the Vikings GM. Dude is making a lot of nice moves...building through the draft and using FA to fill needs.

I agree for the most part but he left them REALLY thin at LB this year. He did stick to his draft board though and didn't reach for a LB.

[Bretsky]

I agree for the most part but he left them REALLY thin at LB this year. He did stick to his draft board though and didn't reach for a LB.

The ND LB was there if he wanted him; I was never sold on Teo. Long term the Vikes seem to be making very nice moves.

[3irty1]

This is called a cost effective shot at a solution with very minimal risk.

Aka a hail mary.

[Rastak]

Aka a hail mary.


Ala Koren Robinson.

[Bretsky]

Ala Koren Robinson.

I was thinking Hakeem Nicks and Golden Tate :)

[Rastak]

I was thinking Hakeem Nicks and Golden Tate :)

To me a hail mary is signing Carson Palmer to be your main QB or something like that. Signing a LB to a modest one year deal hardly qualifies as desperation or a hail mary.

[pbmax]

There were stories saying that the Packers would release Bishop unless they could trade him or restructure his contract. I don't know that Bishop ever acknowledged that the Packers wanted him to take a cut, and TT never talks about contract info.

Bishop said they did not ask for a restructure when he was interviewed after the move was announced.

However, there was another story floating around that same time that intimated that the Packers had explored this much earlier than the draft or OTAs and were turned down by Bishop's representatives. Never saw this confirmed.

However, it would dovetail nicely with the shopping him at draft time stories. Bishop may simply been answering a question in an artful way; they did not ask me to restructure or take a cut, recently.

[3irty1]

I was thinking Hakeem Nicks and Golden Tate :)

He's alluding to the Packers pick up Koren Robinson as a similar longshot situation. Its a pretty perfect analogy since drunk driving arrests are just as football career threatening as ripping all the hamstring tendons off the bone and need for a kick returner not named Vernand Morency and need for a starting linebacker represent similar levels of desperation.

[Rastak]

He's alluding to the Packers pick up Koren Robinson as a similar longshot situation. Its a pretty perfect analogy since drunk driving arrests are just as football career threatening as ripping all the hamstring tendons off the bone and need for a kick returner not named Vernand Morency and need for a starting linebacker represent similar levels of desperation.


Ah give it a fucking rest. I fully agree they left themselves short at LB, they had about 4M in cap left and signed the guy to part of that leaving themselves a reserve. He can either be a contributor, a solid starter, or cut. For 1.5M.

To me, signing Urlacher would have been more of a desperation move. As to the injury, you have no idea and neither do I. They really liked the OLB they grabbed from Penn State but if he was that damn great he wouldn't have lasted that long so this seems like a decent option to pursue.

[Guiness]

Ah give it a fucking rest. I fully agree they left themselves short at LB, they had about 4M in cap left and signed the guy to part of that leaving themselves a reserve. He can either be a contributor, a solid starter, or cut. For 1.5M.

lol - re-read what he posted...pretty sure he was agreeing with you!:!:

[Rastak]

lol - re-read what he posted...pretty sure he was agreeing with you!:!:

His message had a slight variation......:grin:

[Bretsky]

To me a hail mary is signing Carson Palmer to be your main QB or something like that. Signing a LB to a modest one year deal hardly qualifies as desperation or a hail mary.

I was alluding to a different analogy....the fact that....hail Mary's tend to work against GB

[Bretsky]

Rather than putting the homershadee spin on it, the point remains that Biship was our best ILB two years ago...and the Vikes signed him for so cheap they have little risk

This was a Hoody Genius like move

[red]

This is called a cost effective shot at a solution with very minimal risk.

exactly

this is the type of move i would like to see TT try a little more

its basically a one year try out. if he looks healthy during the season, then i can see them throwing a longer deal at him. if he can't get healthy, they walk away after one year with nothing lost

at least they're trying to fix their areas of need. they needed a ILB, we just handed them a pretty good one IMO

[Pugger]

I'm seriously wondering how much speed he lost with that injury. We don't have ILBers coming out of our ears so to me it says a lot when we just let him walk. Yes, he was good in 2011 but he was never a speed demon.

[MJZiggy]

I was alluding to a different analogy....the fact that....hail Mary's tend to work against GB
Only when there are replacement refs, dear.

[Rastak]

Only when there are replacement refs, dear.


The real issue with that play was the pushoff, which reg refs usually ignore also. The problem is when it's that obvious, you HAVE TO CALL IT. When I saw it live I thought immediately "that's a jump ball, goes to the offense". When I saw the pushoff, even worse than Drew Pearson on Nate Wright I said..."oh". Should have been flagged.

[Guiness]

The real issue with that play was the pushoff, which reg refs usually ignore also. The problem is when it's that obvious, you HAVE TO CALL IT. When I saw it live I thought immediately "that's a jump ball, goes to the offense". When I saw the pushoff, even worse than Drew Pearson on Nate Wright I said..."oh". Should have been flagged.

The push off was indeed bad enough to be called, even in the end zone on an 'out of time' play. It wasn't like it happened slick and quick, it was an old fashioned shove, the same one you used to push a buddy off a dock into an ice cold lake Superior in the spring!

But - OPI aside - I really don't know how anyone could see Jennings come down with the ball, Golden reaching out trying to touch it and decide that the later had control of the ball to the ground.

[woodbuck27]

I am actually surprised the deal is that low. I am almost as curious about what happens to him next, to see what kind of deal he can play himself into if healthy this year.

But the Packers release does seem less surprising at this number.

It seems evident now to me that the Packers flat out didn't feel a need for Desmond Bishop.

That Desmond Bishop in Minny is simply 'a whatever' reaction to TT, MM and Dom Capers.

As far as Minny signing him and at that cost ($1.5 million$). That looks like a pretty solid move for the Vikings.

I'll not claim that they ever catch up to us...Ponder Vs Rodgers; but with the two acquisitions (alone) from the Green Bay Packers this off season (Greg Jennings and now Desmond Bishop). The Minnesota Vikings certainly seem to have upgraded over last season.

Overall...the NFL analysts will claim that the Minnesota Vikings have had a very solid off season.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

Here's a pretty decent or comprehensive analysis and report of the Minny move to acquire Desmond Bishop by of all sites ... BR:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1683249-what-does-desmond-bishop-bring-to-the-Vikings

I'm thinking that with all the need of CAP space that TT has and the surplus at inside LBer; and added to that news such as this that Desmond Bishop became easily expendable:

" A June 2013 study from the American Journal of Orthopedics looked at 10 confirmed cases of ruptured hamstrings in the NFL from 1990 to 2008.

While nine of the 10 players in the study returned to play the next season, only five of the 10 played more than one game following the injury.

In addition, two of the 10 players returned and had major injuries occur to the same leg. One suffered a torn Achilles tendon and another re-ruptured the same hamstring (the player was a linebacker). On this note, it is worth noting that Bishop has already been dealing with a strain in the same hamstring he injured in August." Fr. LINK above

Please click on LINK for the entire story which wraps up thus:


" A starting trio of Bishop, Greenway and Henderson is not shabby at all.

If it doesn't, and the hamstring becomes an issue again, then the Vikings have made only a minimal investment (and possibly none at all, since we don't know how much of Bishop's deal is guaranteed).

The possibility of a huge reward with little risk?

Sounds like a shrewd signing to me." Fr. LINK above




GO PACKERS !

[Bretsky]

Only when there are replacement refs, dear.

Perhaps you've already blacked it out of your memory...but Hakeeem Nicks may ring a bell w/o the replacement refs

[hoosier]

Rather than putting the homershadee spin on it, the point remains that Biship was our best ILB two years ago...and the Vikes signed him for so cheap they have little risk

This was a Hoody Genius like move

And how have those been working out lately?

[hoosier]

The push off was indeed bad enough to be called, even in the end zone on an 'out of time' play. It wasn't like it happened slick and quick, it was an old fashioned shove, the same one you used to push a buddy off a dock into an ice cold lake Superior in the spring!

But - OPI aside - I really don't know how anyone could see Jennings come down with the ball, Golden reaching out trying to touch it and decide that the later had control of the ball to the ground.

Exactly right. The only way you can arrive at "simultaneous possession" on that play is if you ignore everything leading up to the two players lying on the ground.

[Pugger]

Exactly right. The only way you can arrive at "simultaneous possession" on that play is if you ignore everything leading up to the two players lying on the ground.

And having the WR under the DB once they are on the ground.

[Teamcheez1]

Bishop gets $840K (the minimum for a 7th year player) plus incentives that could push him to $1.35M. The conjecture is that other teams were offering even less at simply the vet minimum ($550k).

Doesn't sound like people are all that sold on him. Obviously, MN can cut him without any real salary cap hit, so their risk is limited.

[pbmax]

Rather than putting the homershadee spin on it, the point remains that Biship was our best ILB two years ago...and the Vikes signed him for so cheap they have little risk

This was a Hoody Genius like move

Has anyone noticed Genius' approach is neither consistent nor working as planned, currently? :lol:

Bishop was the best LB on a truly horrible defense and he doesn't have the skills to wash off the impression that he is not a difference maker. He stood out on this defense with his hitting but that is not enough.

I am not sure we have better to replace him yet on 1st and 2nd down, but his new contract puts him in the market of replaceable.